Koran-burning pastor says murders of UN staff aren’t his fault

posted at 10:15 am on April 2, 2011 by Ed Morrissey

Terry Jones burned a Koran, and an Afghan mob killed at least seven UN personnel.  Connected?  Surely, but that hardly makes Jones responsible for murder, he told ABC News in a Nightline interview last night:

Terry Jones, the Florida pastor who oversaw the burning of a Koran last month, said he did not feel responsible for the violent protest at a United Nations compound in Afghanistan today that left at least 11 dead. Instead, he said the violence proved his point.

“We wanted to raise awareness of this dangerous religion and dangerous element,” Jones said. “I think [today's attack] proves that there is a radical element of Islam.”

As for the 11 dead, which included seven U.N. staffers and guards, Jones told “Nightline” anchor Bill Weir, “We do not feel responsible, no.”

Interestingly, I had a conversation about this with a family member yesterday. While I agreed that Jones was a publicity hound looking for attention, that doesn’t make him responsible for murder. The only people responsible for murders are those who commit them, and those who specifically incite them to kill.  Any other position eventually wipes out free speech, free religious practice, and freedom altogether.  If we held others responsible for the acts of every nutcase whose violent reactions may or may not have connections to something they did or said, we would have no speech at all — a point we made repeatedly during the Left’s Loughner frenzy, which they conveniently forgot during the Madison protests.

James Joyner warns today about acknowledging the “murderer’s veto”:

Should Jones have burned the Koran? No. But not because doing so might incite some evil people halfway around the world to commit atrocities against innocents. Rather, he shouldn’t have done it was needlessly hurtful without adding any value to the debate. Indeed, aside from generating publicity for himself, he’s likely generated sympathy for Islam and disdain for churches of his ilk.

But Jones is not the slightest bit culpable for the actions of others. Yes, he was warned that violence might ensue. But we’re not responsible for the evil, illegal actions others might take in response to our freely expressing our thoughts. Even if they’re ill-informed, half baked, bigoted thoughts. If we allow the possible reaction of the most dogmatic, evil people who might hear the message to govern our expression, we don’t have freedom at all. It’s worse than a heckler’s veto; it’s a murderer’s veto.

The responsibility for these murders lie with the people who committed them, just as with the murders and violence following the publication of the editorial cartoons in Denmark a few years ago.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 3 4 5

Of course it’s not his fault. Muslims will kill people for any reason whatsoever.

“He wrote a book talking bad about Mohammad, KILL HIM!” “He destroyed a Koran, KILL HIM” “He drew a picture of Muhammad, KILL HIM” “She went out in public without covering her face, KILL HER” “She tried to learn to read, KILL HER”

Muslims are just waiting for any excuse to start killing.

jeffn21 on April 3, 2011 at 11:53 AM

Dave Rywall on April 2, 2011 at 3:52 PM

You cannot expect the entire world to spend the rest of our days walking on eggshells because we don’t want to make them angry.

Let’s build a big wall around a certain area in the Middle East and stick them in there. We will then kill anyone who pokes his head over the top. If they want to live in the dark ages, then let them. But we cannot for a single moment allow the actions of lunatics affect how we live our lives in the slightest!

jeffn21 on April 3, 2011 at 11:59 AM

The crux of the matter:

The only people responsible for murders are those who commit them, and those who specifically incite them to kill. Any other position eventually wipes out free speech, free religious practice, and freedom altogether. If we held others responsible for the acts of every nutcase whose violent reactions may or may not have connections to something they did or said, we would have no speech at all

Let’s not over-simplify. “Responsibility” is not a black/white term – there are many levels of responsibility for any given act/outcome.

Is this nut-job pastor a murderer? Not even close in any sense. By that test he has no responsibility whatsoever for the deaths.

Did his actions lead to the deaths? Yes, so yes in that sense he was “responsible”, at least in some degree.

The real question is whether his reason for taking the action (highly offensive, of little societal value, and probably primarily to boost his own ego) out-weigh the cost. The answer is no.

Bottom line – he’s an ass, and there are much more productive ways to push back at the evils of Islam. All he’s done is waste the political capital of the rest of us.

peski on April 3, 2011 at 12:33 PM

Did his actions lead to the deaths? Yes, so yes in that sense he was “responsible”, at least in some degree.

By that logic the woman who wears a dress rather than a burka is also in some sense responsible for her own rape.

The real question is whether his reason for taking the action (highly offensive, of little societal value, and probably primarily to boost his own ego) out-weigh the cost. The answer is no.

It has a significant societal value if it helps us from committing politically correct suicide. His reasons are his own and I have little interest in why he did it. The cost seems to be one more murderous outbreak in a long line of thousands of murderous outbreaks. The benefit may be the withdrawal of UN agencies from Afghanistan as they are now suggesting. Fewer people for the ‘Misunderstanders of Islam’ to kill.

Bottom line – he’s an ass, and there are much more productive ways to push back at the evils of Islam.

Like what? Bringing the truth of what Islam is and how it operates to the western public is the most vital part of pushing back Islam. Write another article that four hundred and seventeen people actually read?

All he’s done is waste the political capital of the rest of us.

peski on April 3, 2011 at 12:33 PM

What is political capital?

sharrukin on April 3, 2011 at 12:44 PM

Bottom line – he’s an ass, and there are much more productive ways to push back at the evils of Islam.
peski on April 3, 2011 at 12:33 PM

Right. Maybe he could publish a cartoon. Or write a book. Or make a movie.

Barnestormer on April 3, 2011 at 12:51 PM

Or, to put it still another way, pick your fights carefully. unclesmrgol on April 2, 2011 at 10:35 PM

Like I said, infidels are forbidden from even talking about the Koran or Islam.

You say we should choose our battles, but what you ignorantly mean is we should surrender so as never to give offense.

Akzed on April 3, 2011 at 1:03 PM

Right. Maybe he could publish a cartoon. Or write a book. Or make a movie. Barnestormer on April 3, 2011 at 12:51 PM

Wrong according to unclesmrgol because it might cause Muslims to start killing people.

Akzed on April 3, 2011 at 1:05 PM

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says congressional lawmakers are discussing taking some action in response to the Koran burnings of a Tennessee pastor that led to killings at the U.N. facility in Afghanistan and sparked protests across the Middle East, Politico reports.

“Ten to 20 people have been killed,” Reid said Sunday on CBS’ “Face the Nation.” “We’ll take a look at this of course. As to whether we need hearings or not, I don’t know.”

Sen. Lindsey Graham said Congress might need to explore the need to limit some forms of freedom of speech, in light of Tennessee pastor Terry Jones’ Quran burning, and how such actions result in enabling U.S. enemies.

“I wish we could find a way to hold people accountable. Free speech is a great idea, but we’re in a war,” Graham told CBS’ Bob Schieffer on “Face the Nation” Sunday.

“During World War II, we had limits on what you could do if it inspired the enemy,” Graham said, adding certain speech can “put our troops at risk.”

~~

Huh, so maybe unclesmrgol will get his way and we’ll start obeying the Muslims.

Akzed on April 3, 2011 at 1:14 PM

“During World War II, we had limits on what you could do if it inspired the enemy,” Graham said, adding certain speech can “put our troops at risk.”

Yeah, aiding and abetting the enemy, not just stuff that pi$sed them off!

If such a law passed it would in and of itself be aiding the enemy.

I hope Grahamnesty enjoys the remainder of his senate tenure.

Akzed on April 3, 2011 at 1:18 PM

Why should we respect Islam when it does not respect us? So what if Muslims are angry that a Koran got burned. I’m angry that Muslims burned Americans to nothing on Sep 11 then danced in their streets to celebrate. Rather than knuckle under to Muslim mob violence, we should teach them to beware our wrath.

Tantor on April 3, 2011 at 2:08 PM

Is this nut-job pastor a murderer? Not even close in any sense. By that test he has no responsibility whatsoever for the deaths.

Did his actions lead to the deaths? Yes, so yes in that sense he was “responsible”, at least in some degree.

The real question is whether his reason for taking the action (highly offensive, of little societal value, and probably primarily to boost his own ego) out-weigh the cost. The answer is no.

Bottom line – he’s an ass, and there are much more productive ways to push back at the evils of Islam. All he’s done is waste the political capital of the rest of us.

peski on April 3, 2011 at 12:33 PM

In the aftermath of Richard Ramirez’s psychotic rampage it bacame known that he targeted houses that were painted yellow. Did the house painters’ actions “at least in some degree” “lead to deaths?”

The real question could be did painting houses yellow outweigh the cost. The answer is no.

The real bottom line – we can get real absurd when trying to ‘spread the culpability wealth’ around when dealing with cause and effect. It gets exponentially absurd when the effect is of extremely irrational behavior. Beheading and murder absolutely qualifies as extremely irrational behavior. At what point of absurdity do you feel is of an adequate stopping point?

anuts on April 3, 2011 at 2:44 PM

The responsibility for these murders lie (stet) with the people who committed them, just as with the murders and violence following the publication of the editorial cartoons in Denmark a few years ago.

That is 100% correct. However, the publicity seeking and the MSM blasting this make them BOTH complicit in the slaughter.

Are the “pastors” and MSM guilty of the murders? No!! Did they create an incident to incite a Muslim outcry and violence? Yes.

It is a no-brainer, as @jeffn21 notes in his comment, that Muslims are looking for any excuse to murder innocents.

However, does that make it okay for the press to broadcast this, or for the “pastors” to seek publicity? No.

I also beg to differ with the article by Joyner you quoted:

Should Jones have burned the Koran? No.

Burning the book is a form of free speech. They could have already burned hundreds of Qurans without anyone knowing – only the press reporting this made it known. The problem lies with the publicity seeking (as Joyner mentions in the same paragraph) and the press blasting the “event”:

Indeed, aside from generating publicity for himself, he’s likely generated sympathy for Islam and disdain for churches of his ilk.

The inevitable outcome of publicity seeking hacks is the suffering of innocents.

DINORight on April 3, 2011 at 2:56 PM

The inevitable outcome of publicity seeking hacks is the suffering of innocents.

DINORight on April 3, 2011 at 2:56 PM

So the Muslims give you their pimp hand and now you want to remain silent and not upset the Ministry of Insane Rage?

Well that is how a pimp controls his stable, that is how an abusive husband control his wife, that is how a terrorist controls the policy of nations.

That is also how a groveler loses his freedom.

sharrukin on April 3, 2011 at 3:07 PM

Jones is a bottom feeder akin to the Westboro “Baptist” types.

HOWEVER ….. Burning a Koran doesn’t justify any human being killing anyone.

The people who did the killing are not animals incapable of choosing between good and evil – I mean, they may be “animals” but that doesn’t render them incapable of choosing, etc.

They chose to kill and they chose to kill people who had nothing to do with their alleged motivation.

Yes, I say “alleged” – from what I can tell, killing like this is what they do …. seizing on Jones is just part of the psychological warfare (“make our barbarity their fault”).

Question for the audience ….

If Jones is “at fault” at all, it must be because he “poked a tiger” – - – the people who did the killing aren’t moral actors capable of making a choice between right & wrong, between what reaction is appropriate & what is extreme, etc.

If we’re dealing with an “animal” incapable of making moral choices, then isn’t it ridiculous for us to treat them as if they have that capacity?

NO ONE has the right to blame someone else for their wrong. While Jones is no prize, these deaths belong to the fanatics who committed them.

BD57 on April 3, 2011 at 3:36 PM

To Harry and Lindsey about the “need to explore the need to limit some forms of freedom of speech, in light of Tennessee pastor Terry Jones’ Quran burning”: Bring it, you officious twits. Bring it and see what happens next.

SukieTawdry on April 3, 2011 at 3:57 PM

jeffn21 on April 3, 2011 at 11:59 AM

Unfortunately, that seems the only “compromise” that might work. Isolate them and make sure they don’t have WMD. As an act of mercy, give those who say they genuinely want to leave Islam a way out, then watch them.

“During World War II, we had limits on what you could do if it inspired the enemy,” Graham said, adding certain speech can “put our troops at risk.”

What a smarmy weasel Graham is.

According to Graham, criticizing the foul core beliefs of the enemy is to “inspire” them. Wrong, Graham; it exposes them, and if we were serious, we would instantly round the murderers up — including the mullahs who incited them — and send them to Guantanamo. Why not? Who are we fighting against, anyway? How are we to win a war by appeasing those indistinguishable from the Taliban? When we pull out, what sort of power structure will we leave in place for those poor bastards to live under?

Afghanistan used to be a fairly tolerant country just before the Soviets invaded: women went to college, wore skirts and let their hair free to blow in the wind. There was an entertainment industry and a measure of free speech. To counter the USSR, the US supported whoever would fight them, which unfortunately proved to be the most radical elements of Islam, which led to the Taliban.

The point is, radical Islam in Afghanistan is not inevitable. That generation of Afghans are mostly gone, but most people are sheep and go with the strongest wind. Stand up to these girls-school-burning jerks and insane mullahs enough and the people will follow.

The greatest strength of the insanity that is Islam has never been reason, it’s been a closed circle of brutal control mixed with a whopping unhealthy dollop of self-interest — meaning conquest, sanctioned rape and plunder — and tribal and personal superiority — meaning female domination and trembling dhimmis at one’s feet, who must pay an exorbitant tax for the privilege of being eternally humiliated as third class subjects.

Islam’s greatest weakness is that it isn’t capable of surviving in a free and open world. The muslims, of course, know this. A break in the chain anywhere, and Islam is doomed. This is why they cannot permit any dissent. Leaving Islam — death. Proselytizing Christianity or Judaism — death. Criticizing Islam — death. Ridiculing Islam — death. Weakness and appeasement is their life blood. Multiculturalism, PC, the Left, moral equivalency, the Western press, and giving power to a “democracy” of dictatorships (the UN) are veritable gifts from Allah to keep the muslims in line.

One breaks the chains by denying Islam the power to kill and punish in the name of Islam. Isn’t this blindingly obvious?

Aardvark on April 3, 2011 at 4:58 PM

I rarely agree with Dave, but this time he’s right. Given the previous history of these types of provocations against Muslims, they tend to overreact and go looking for the first member of Dar al-Harb that they can find so they can take revenge. We are interchangeable to them — if they lack the resources to get to Mr. Jones, they’ll just choose another American, and if they are unable to get to another American, they’ll choose some other Christians.

As for Mr. Jones, I doubt he desires martyrdom — far from it. He’ll be very well protected, having been warned by previous events. He knows full well the firestorm of protest which would follow his act, and probably could care less about those who would bear the brunt of the result, because, if nothing else, they prove his assertion that Islam is violent and unGodly.

So the sheep Mr. Jones offer for ritual slaughter are unarmed Catholics in Pakistan or lightly armed UN missions in Afghanistan. They are easy to find and require no airline tickets to get to America.

After all, what were the results of Mr. Jones’ trial?

How can Mr. Jones, after said trial, not understand the mindset of the people he was provoking?

unclesmrgol on April 3, 2011 at 2:48 AM

So much idiocy and apologism in here, so little time.

But one thing stuck out here – if those savages can’t tell one of us from another and go for the “low hanging fruit” or the first person they see, then shame on all of us for not realizing that and behaving appropriately – much like not waking a sleeping baby because all the baby will do is scream and cry.

But you go ahead and play with your Neville Chamberlain box set and rend your garments.

kim roy on April 3, 2011 at 5:30 PM

If Jones does it again whilst eating bacon the Religion of Peace will REALLY go berserk. Oscar Meyer has already issued a disclaimer.

viking01 on April 3, 2011 at 7:31 PM

But one thing stuck out here – if those savages can’t tell one of us from another and go for the “low hanging fruit” or the first person they see, then shame on all of us for not realizing that and behaving appropriately – much like not waking a sleeping baby because all the baby will do is scream and cry.

kim roy on April 3, 2011 at 5:30 PM

Terry Jones has little to lose and fame to gain. Unlike those he endangers he’s far from the field of fire. Lindsey Graham and the rest of the government should stay out of it, but Jones is a careless fame ball.

dedalus on April 3, 2011 at 7:34 PM

So much racism here it’s hard to believe. Muslims are bloodthirsty savages or psychotic, subhuman animals… Have any of you people ever MET a Muslim? It’s okay for you to paint an entire faith with one lunatic, racist brush, but when others do the same for Christianity, they’re somehow hateful and evil? Come on. Find the plank in your own eye before you go looking for the sliver in your neighbor’s!

pm123 on April 3, 2011 at 7:35 PM

pm123 on April 3, 2011 at 7:35 PM

islam is a race?

Ronnie on April 3, 2011 at 7:42 PM

Find the plank in your own eye before you go looking for the sliver in your neighbor’s!

pm123 on April 3, 2011 at 7:35 PM

Exactly how much self-examination must be done before we are permitted to condemn the one and only “religion” that is constantly rioting, burning things, blowing things up and beheading people without so much as a peep from its so-called “moderates?” Sorry, but compared to islam, there isn’t a plank within 5,000 miles of my eye.

Ronnie on April 3, 2011 at 7:46 PM

Burn a Koran? Pollution. Better, even A’stan has law enforcement. Check the street meaning of “burn”.

“Words have meaning.” BHO

Or will we next have cars that run on Koran? “Hey, I get 22 miles per Koran.”

Caststeel on April 3, 2011 at 7:51 PM

Ronnie: Okay. Glad to know you’re pure as the driven snow. Keep up the good work. Jesus would be proud of you, I’m sure.

pm123 on April 3, 2011 at 8:07 PM

pm123 on April 3, 2011 at 8:07 PM

He doesn’t have to be ‘pure’ to be capable of understanding the difference between those who will murder you if you annoy them in any way, and Christians who will annoy you by handing out pamphlets and telling you that Jesus loves you.

He just has to have an IQ higher than a turnip.

sharrukin on April 3, 2011 at 8:15 PM

Ronnie: Okay. Glad to know you’re pure as the driven snow. Keep up the good work. Jesus would be proud of you, I’m sure.

pm123 on April 3, 2011 at 8:07 PM

Compared to islam, pure as pure can be.

Ronnie on April 3, 2011 at 8:37 PM

Jesus would be proud of you, I’m sure.

pm123 on April 3, 2011 at 8:07 PM

I’m sure too.

Ronnie on April 3, 2011 at 8:40 PM

Terry Jones has little to lose and fame to gain. Unlike those he endangers he’s far from the field of fire. Lindsey Graham and the rest of the government should stay out of it, but Jones is a careless fame ball.

dedalus on April 3, 2011 at 7:34 PM

SURE, only his head!

cjk on April 3, 2011 at 8:47 PM

One of the tenets of Islam is taqiyya which is that it is okay if one is a deceiver if it is done in the cause of Islam and / or against infidels (which is a one name fits all for everything from non-Muslim to any other flavor of Muslim one’s brand of Islam is warring against at the time). That means it’s okay to lie under oath, cheat at bartering, enter into diplomatic accords in bad faith, just about anything. The mindset is completely different if it is wholly true to the Koran.

The Bible, by contrast gets to the point of not bearing false witness, loving neighbor as thy self and lots of parables of doing good.

It is instructive to observe not merely Islam’s war against Western Civilization but Islam’s eternal war against itself. Blame it for what it does not those brave enough to point it out.

viking01 on April 3, 2011 at 8:54 PM

(and to be clear in my post “those brave enough to point it out” refers to those commenting here and nothing to do with a malcontent grand-stander like Jones.)

viking01 on April 3, 2011 at 8:59 PM

Pastor Jones is one hell of a courageous guy. To say he is reaching solely for fame or attention is ludicrous and shows just how much the left controls the argument.
Consider these truths:
1)He knew that every craven, cowardly, appeaser in the world would slander him.
2)He knew that he would be literally be putting his head on the line.
3)He also knew that he would get ABSOLUTELY no protection or backing from his government for the safe execution of his rights.
It is indisputable that he knew the above because it already happened to him!!!!
GEE all you motherf*cken pussies, maybe he actually cares about exposing the reality of Mohammedanism as he directly stated???? Or has the lefty PC bullshit machine completely fu*ked up your minds?

cjk on April 3, 2011 at 9:54 PM

But one thing stuck out here – if those savages can’t tell one of us from another and go for the “low hanging fruit” or the first person they see, then shame on all of us for not realizing that and behaving appropriately – much like not waking a sleeping baby because all the baby will do is scream and cry.

kim roy on April 3, 2011 at 5:30 PM

Terry Jones has little to lose and fame to gain. Unlike those he endangers he’s far from the field of fire. Lindsey Graham and the rest of the government should stay out of it, but Jones is a careless fame ball.

dedalus on April 3, 2011 at 7:34 PM

Sure, he’s a reprehensible fame whore or whatever fits. But he does have the law on his side. He can burn whatever he wants as long as it’s his property and is not against any other laws or ordinances.

Is everyone supposed to cut off their first amendment rights because some savages cannot control themselves. Like someone else quite rightly pointed out earlier, is the woman asking for it because she wore a skirt?

And why do people seem to want to willfully ignore that Jones is probably fully aware of the risk he put himself into? No amount of security is protection against people who put bombs onto the mentally retarded. That’s not “little to lose”.

So much racism here it’s hard to believe. Muslims are bloodthirsty savages or psychotic, subhuman animals… Have any of you people ever MET a Muslim? It’s okay for you to paint an entire faith with one lunatic, racist brush, but when others do the same for Christianity, they’re somehow hateful and evil? Come on. Find the plank in your own eye before you go looking for the sliver in your neighbor’s!

pm123 on April 3, 2011 at 7:35 PM

I’m waiting for the ever mythical “moderate Muslims” to strongly denounce this and aid in the bringing of justice those that participated in this. Until you can point me to a link that provides this, then I’ll gladly lump them all in one as I haven’t seen much to contradict they aren’t all of the same mind. If that makes me a racist, so be it. I’d call it a practical decision based on actions.

kim roy on April 3, 2011 at 10:01 PM

kim roy on April 3, 2011 at 10:01 PM

He’s in Florida, not Waziristan. The marginal increase in risk is probably worth the upside of media attention.

You are right. The law is on his side and should be. The murderers in Mazar-e-Sharif are responsible for their actions and don’t get a pass because someone burned a book they worship.

dedalus on April 3, 2011 at 10:14 PM

Or has the lefty PC bullshit machine completely fu*ked up your minds?

cjk on April 3, 2011 at 9:54 PM

Political Correctness is mental bondage.

Heckle on April 3, 2011 at 10:46 PM

“If that makes me a racist, so be it.”

Well, there’s not much anyone can do to counter that argument. I’m off to take a shower after reading thoughts like this…

pm123 on April 3, 2011 at 10:57 PM

“If that makes me a racist, so be it.”

Well, there’s not much anyone can do to counter that argument. I’m off to take a shower after reading thoughts like this…

pm123 on April 3, 2011 at 10:57 PM

Love the lefty slime tactic of removing all context to feast upon a small part of a quote!

Don’t forget the whole quote now:

I’m waiting for the ever mythical “moderate Muslims” to strongly denounce this and aid in the bringing of justice those that participated in this. Until you can point me to a link that provides this, then I’ll gladly lump them all in one as I haven’t seen much to contradict they aren’t all of the same mind. If that makes me a racist, so be it.

But thanks for playing!

kim roy on April 3, 2011 at 11:19 PM

If Jones is to blame so is Karzai who publicized the burning. So are the “Preachers” in the mosques that revved up their congregations into a mob. The religion of pieces is just that…

Gohawgs on April 4, 2011 at 12:01 AM

dedalus on April 3, 2011 at 10:14 PM

Are you f*cken for real? Are you sniffing glue?
They got his name.
They got his number.
They got his home address.
They got his work address.
They got his picture.
Most of all they know that neither his local, state, nor federal government gives a shit about his safety.

cjk on April 4, 2011 at 1:56 AM

If the pastor hadn’t set these fanatics off, something else would have. That’s the bottom line.

zoyclem on April 4, 2011 at 7:29 AM

Indeed, aside from generating publicity for himself, he’s likely generated sympathy for Islam and disdain for churches of his ilk.

Huh? Killing innocent people over a book, cartoon, picture….does NOT garnish any sympathy from me, what kind of person would feel sympathetic for that? I feel disdain towards all muslims for this. Yes I said all. Are those murderers walking free? Why is there not a big stink about these murderers? Why are they not being held accountable, Mr Graham, for their heinous crimes? Why is the dialog not about these killings being the worst kind of crime to humanity?

tinkerthinker on April 4, 2011 at 7:41 AM

It doesn’t take much to cause islamic savages to murder people. Not much at all.

LODGE4 on April 4, 2011 at 8:15 AM

This episode has been valuable, albeit for what it has revealed in our military (Petraeus) and Congressional leadership. Not good.

james23 on April 4, 2011 at 8:39 AM

They got his picture.
Most of all they know that neither his local, state, nor federal government gives a shit about his safety.

cjk on April 4, 2011 at 1:56 AM

Yet miraculously he’s still doing media while others were targeted.

dedalus on April 4, 2011 at 9:37 AM

But you go ahead and play with your Neville Chamberlain box set and rend your garments.

kim roy on April 3, 2011 at 5:30 PM

But you go ahead and bait the animals and see what happens.

There’s no Neville Chamberlain here. Knowing how they act, I submit that they just act the way they do, and they acted exactly as Mr. Jones expected they would.

Again, you choose your fights carefully, and causing deaths because one wants to be dramatic — call attention to one’s self — is evil.

unclesmrgol on April 4, 2011 at 9:56 AM

Huh, so maybe unclesmrgol will get his way and we’ll start obeying the Muslims.

Akzed on April 3, 2011 at 1:14 PM

Several levels of stupidity here. I’m not saying to obey Muslims — I’m just saying not to provoke them unnecessarily. Again, Mr. Jones held a trial in which he described what the Quran expects of Muslims, and then he burned the book and they delivered exactly what was advertised in the book. It’s as if he used a tool and the tool produced the expected results upon application.

unclesmrgol on April 4, 2011 at 10:01 AM

If this was a culture and community (Islam) that had any “moderates” that everyone keeps telling us exist and we must prostrate ourselves toward the end of appeasing, then these “madmen” (read, everyday muslims) would not feel it is perfectcly acceptable to run out and start killing people becasue their feelings were hurt by an act of a stranger more than 5,000 miles away. the idea that we must “be careful” what we say or do b/c it may “incite” a barbarian to act barbaric is idiotic at best and harmful to our very survival at worst.

When is the West going to wake up and realize that we are not dealing with a sane, adult, rational culture? We are dealing with barbarism. Any alleged moderates are the outliers of this “culture” and are very few in number in relation to the vast majority of muslims and have no power or control. And, we are not going to somehow make the alleged “moderates” powerful in islam by prostrating ourselves to islam to show them how tolerant we are. All that will do is encourage and strenthen the mainstream (read radical) muslim world by demonstrating our weakness.

the west is living under an illusion that the muslim world thinks like we do, wants the same things we want, values the same things we value. They don’t, and we cannot make them through acting nice.

The only thing “putting our troops in danger” (aside from the actual mission) is our stupid insistence on using the LEAST amount of force possible, not targeting “civilians”, not fighting to win. By using silly rules of engagement, but having stupid goals, but tying one arm behind our backs, these are the things that put soliders’ lives at much more risk than is necessary. All of the things we do to be “PC” at war and appease the alleged “moderate” muslims and world opinion – those are the things that cause U.S. deaths – NOT the exercise of free speech.

If these barbarians believed that the U.S. would retaliate with proper brutality and force, they would not have engaged in killing the U.N. workers over the koran burning. Because they know we will do nothing but try to appease them, they will act out like the children they are.

What is the muslim world but a 2 year old? The muslim world ha the intelligence and maturity level of a 2-year old. I have no respect for islam and don’t believe in the much ballyhooed but never seen moderat muslim center. Sure, there are a few good and decent people who are muslims. But, again, they are a small minority and they have no power in the islam world. And, those individuals are good and decent despite islam, not because of it. I’m sure there were some really great guys in the upper reaches of the Soviet Politburo or who were members of the NAZI party. That such people exist is not an argument that islam is not a barbaric death cult that should be opposed like the ideology that it is.

To all the people who claim you can’t “blame islam”, who or what is to blame? “radicals”? they aren’t radicals when they are the majority of the religion. When christianity or judiasm can be preached and followed openly in Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt without fear of arrest or death, then maybe islam has some “moderates”. When women are not legally murdered for being raped in countries like Saudi, Iran, et al, we can talk about this “moderate islam”.

When the islamic world does not take to the streets and threaten death for perceived slights, we can talk about “moderate islam”.

tolerance is a 2-way street. This idea that we owe something to islam is pure insanity. A logical and rational person can come to an opinion on islam based on facts.

it is a legitimate opinion to say that Jim Jones’ church was a death cult based on the facts surrounding that religion. It is legitimate opinion that David Koresch’s church was a death cult based on the facts surrounding that religion.

What is the difference here? That there are more people practisingthe islamic religion than those other 2?

this idea that we are not allowed to judge or have opinions about things – even with facts staring us in the face – is the left’s new religion: the religion of moral equivalency, where nothing can be considered better or worse than anything else, where people cannot judge other people or other things or ideas (except conservatism, which is always bad and evil). The idea that “tolerance” means turning a blind eye to facts is insane. tolerance does not mean ignoring conduct, ignoring what the people of islam actually say and do, ignore islam’s history.

Tolerance means that if and when islam decides to join the modern world and reciprocate tolerance to everyone else, we leave them alone and they leave us alone. Until that day, why be tolerant? Why defer to islam? Why ignore the truth?

Islam is not a race – so one can’t be a racist for thinking islam is evil. Islam is a religion, and chosing what religion to practice and to what extent (i.e., beheading infidels) is a choice. You cannot be racist for judging people based on the choices they make.

So, the racist card is idiotic from the get-go. And, it’s played out. America is the least racist country in teh world. where are the high level black or hispanic leaders in European nations? Where are the indigenous high level leaders in South American nations? Where would you rather be a black man today – in some african country or the U.S.? Would you rather want to be a christian or jew living in an arab country or a muslim living in the U.S.?

I’m sick of the race card, it has no meaning anymore. It has no power b/c it is used so often for so many things that one expects to be called a racist for chosing white eggs over brown eggs.

To summarize – engaging in free speech in America is not to blame for barbarians killing innocent people in Afghanistan. Or, do you believe that a rape victim should be blamed b/c of the way she dresses?

Monkeytoe on April 4, 2011 at 10:11 AM

Islam is not a race – so one can’t be a racist for thinking islam is evil. Islam is a religion, and chosing what religion to practice and to what extent (i.e., beheading infidels) is a choice. You cannot be racist for judging people based on the choices they make.

And, to follow up on that thought, anyone who is religious at all has to believe that their religion is correct and other religions are incorrect. So, simply thinking another religion is incorrect is not “bad”. But, you can also judge a religion on other things – what it preaches, what its tenets are, how its adherents act.

For instance, I personally find mormonism a little kooky, but they the LTS church does not teach its adherents to kill in the name of the religion, mormons don’t riot when there has been an insult to their religion, and most mormons I have known have been good, honest, people.

I find scientology even kookier. But again, scientologists aren’t running around bombing other religion, aren’t hijacking planes, aren’t rioting over perceived slights.

so, I have my opinions on Mormonism and Scientology, but I tolerate them. I don’t wish any ill will toward the adherents of those religions. I don’t believe those religions are necessarily evil.

The idea that it is somehow off limits to form an opinion of islam because it is a religion is stupid. And, for the record, leftists have never defended christianity from attacks. It was always perfectly o.k. for people to attack christianity for the last 30 years, but suddenly, it is off-limits to say anything bad about a religion, and really, only one religion – islam?

Monkeytoe on April 4, 2011 at 10:49 AM

@ Aardvark on April 2, 2011 at 10:55 PM:

Quoting Obama: “No religion tolerates the slaughter and beheading of innocent people…”

Too bad Obie didn’t explain that to Muslims the only “innocent” people are Muslims; No Christian, no Jew, no person of any other religion is “innocent”. And the Koran instructs Muslims that non-Muslims are to be slaughtered.

Nuance.

GGMac on April 4, 2011 at 1:12 PM

It takes very little to light ragheads off,there is so much idle youth around that a good beheading,flogging,hanging or riot seems like a productive days work. Rent a mob seems to be a pastime,like trashing London,or like the thugs in Wisconsin could become.
We need to focus on our country and let the mobs kill each other, it is sort of a local custom and we do not want to seem insensitive to local customs/practices.PC must be maintained.

Col.John Wm. Reed on April 4, 2011 at 1:15 PM

It is almost as bad as that time when that ‘artist’ put the crucifix in urine, and a mob of crazed right wing Christians killed all those Starbucks patrons.

spec_ops_mateo on April 4, 2011 at 1:19 PM

It is almost as bad as that time when that ‘artist’ put the crucifix in urine, and a mob of crazed right wing Christians killed all those Starbucks patrons.

spec_ops_mateo on April 4, 2011 at 1:19 PM

Remember when the Taliban tore down all of those amazing 1,000 year old Buddha statues? they don’t seem to have any problem destroying other religions’ icons. And, I don’t recall budhists killing anyone over it.

But we can’t say anything bad about islam.

Monkeytoe on April 4, 2011 at 3:40 PM

Is the pastor guilty for the murders because he offended the Islamic mob the same way the Jews are guilty for the murders because they offended the NAZI mob?—only in a world where nobody has to take responsibility for their own actions.

Dollayo on April 5, 2011 at 12:56 AM

All I can say is – “Did the Pastor misplace his hood?”.

I do not support or condone the doctrine of Shari rule among the Muslim community. Because, its barbaric teachings are so EXTREME and intolerant of other that do not follow its teachings.

The public defamation of its teachings a reminiscent of KKK cross burnings, and such public displays only agitates those who believe to further action.

MSGTAS on April 5, 2011 at 10:30 AM

Comment pages: 1 3 4 5