Afghan mob kills at least 12 UN workers in protest over Terry Jones’s Koran-burning

posted at 4:51 pm on April 1, 2011 by Allahpundit

“Wait,” you say, “since when did Terry Jones burn a Koran?” Turns out he did it 12 days ago after some sort of kangaroo court/mock trial. I didn’t know about it until today; apparently, after being savaged last fall for condemning Jones’s provocation while devoting saturation coverage to it, most of the national media wisely decided to ignore him this time. Most, but not all: Someone must have picked up the story because, by last Thursday, our “friend” Hamid Karzai had formally denounced Jones’s act. Then, a week later, our “friends” in the Pakistani government denounced it too, replete with an open letter to the head of Interpol asking him to arrest Jones for the “violent crime” he supposedly committed. In other words, faced with a choice between pleasing local fundamentalists by publicizing a provocation they were trying to demagogue and alienating the fundies by ignoring it in order to avert a violent backlash, our “allies” decided to cover their own asses by stirring the pot. And let’s face it: Given the consequences these days in AfPak for being seen as soft on blasphemy, that’s a perfectly rational decision. Someone’s going to die; better a UN worker than the presidents of Afghanistan or Pakistan, right?

And yet, and yet, until today, there’d been no major violence anywhere reacting to Jones’s stunt, despite the fact that it happened almost two weeks ago. Even with Karzai and Zardari giving it a PR boost, Egyptians were focused on Mubarak’s crimes; Tunisians were busy with Islamists screeching about women wearing headscarves in state ID photos; Syrians were risking death urging the beady-eyed brute in charge to resign already; and Libyans were battling Qaddafi to see who’d control Ras Lanuf and Misurata for the next few hours before handing it over once again. With no movement on the “insane overreaction to blasphemy” front, Afghan clerics realized it’d take another push to get things going. And since today is mosque day, which guarantees huge crowds, they decided this was the moment to push:

Friday’s incident began when three mullahs, addressing worshippers at Friday prayers inside the Blue Mosque here, one of Afghanistan’s holiest places, urged people to take to the streets to agitate for the arrest of Terry Jones, the Florida pastor who oversaw the burning of a Koran on March 20. Otherwise, said the most prominent of them, Mullah Mohammed Shah Adeli, Afghanistan should cut off relations with the United States. “Burning the Koran is an insult to Islam and those who committed it should be punished,” he said.

The crowd — some carrying signs reading “Down with America” and “Death to Obama” — poured into the streets and swelled — the governor of Balkh Province, Atta Mohammad Noor, later put the number at 20,000…

The mob also burned down part of the United Nations compound, toppled guard towers and heaved blocks of cement down from the walls. The victims were killed by weapons that the demonstrators had wrestled away from the United Nations guards, according to Mr. Noor…

A prominent Afghan cleric, Mullah Qyamudin Kashaf, acting head of the Ulema Council of Afghanistan (and a Karzai appointee), also called for American authorities to arrest and try Mr. Jones for the Koran burning.

The Ulema Council recently met to discuss the Koran burning, he said in a telephone interview. “We expressed our deep concerns about this act and we were expecting the violence that we are witnessing now,” Mullah Kashaf said. “Unless they try him and give him the highest possible punishment, we will witness violence and protests not only in Afghanistan but in the entire world.”

How desperately did they want to see some rage today? CBS quotes a witness who says clerics were driving around the town yesterday with loudspeakers urging people to turn out for a “peaceful protest.” Fast-forward to today and the provincial governor, trying his best to spin this as some sort of organized Taliban or jihadi assault, was left trying to argue that the attack had been carried out by insurgents using the crowd as cover. That doesn’t square with the account quoted above, though, especially the part about an enormous throng overrunning the perimeter and seizing the guards’ guns. Insurgents surely would have brought their own weapons. Up to 20 people may have been killed in the attack at last count; early reports stated that two were beheaded but that’s in dispute at the moment. Ironically none of the victims were Americans, as the Times claims that protesters settled on the UN compound only when they couldn’t find any of ours to tear apart.

And so now we move to the inevitable next phase whenever there’s some cycle of revenge in the Muslim world in response to western speech, a la the Mohammed cartoons. Among the public, lots of second thoughts about staying put in Afghanistan, wondering how you build a nation on a foundation that’s capable of this. Among the administration, lots of angst about how to politically navigate the fallout, with free speech rights, AfPak diplomacy, and the outcome of the “Arab Spring” all in the mix. And for the media, lots of effort to hold Terry Jones morally responsible for the dead UN workers even though the only thing he burned was a book. An exit question for them via the Daily Caller’s Mike Riggs: “What are you willing to stop doing to avoid offending violent religious zealots?”


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blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 5:28 PM

If our soldiers over there aren’t burning Korans, then what do they have to worry about?

It’s not the deepening hatred engendered by one Koran hibachi that the troops have to worry about, it’s whatever political/paramilitary forcegroup exists in number to exploit real or imaginary insults to Allah that could mount an offensive against them. The UN folks were easy pickin’s.

shuzilla on April 1, 2011 at 5:43 PM

Yes, the people who did this awful thing are responsible for their actions and yes, the region is backward and their constant calls to violence are barbaric…but why pour gasoline on a fire? Jones was careless at the very least.

Terrye on April 1, 2011 at 5:40 PM

-
So all resistance to the implementation of sharia should stop once a certain level of violence is seen as a reaction to said resistance…. Now I get it.
-

RalphyBoy on April 1, 2011 at 5:43 PM

By waking people up to the truth of what Islam is and how it operates.

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 5:38 PM

He didn’t alert people to anything people didn’t know already.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 5:43 PM

Vera on April 1, 2011 at 5:42 PM

Yea, but then they also see the awesome Americans burning their holy book.

We’ve been fighting this war so stupidly. No use in continuing that.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 5:45 PM

2) Muslims need to stop killing people because they are “mad” about things.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 4:56 PM

Ok, that is your first post in this thread.
Yes, they are killing people. I ask you for a third and final time. Are you saying it is unreasonable to expect them to control themselves? Because if you think Jones has even a smidge of culpability, that is what you are saying.

redshirt on April 1, 2011 at 5:45 PM

He didn’t alert people to anything people didn’t know already.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 5:43 PM

Thank you. Robert Spencer has done amazing work (without burning a damn thing); much more than this nincompoop has.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 5:46 PM

Yes, they are killing people. I ask you for a third and final time. Are you saying it is unreasonable to expect them to control themselves? Because if you think Jones has even a smidge of culpability, that is what you are saying.

redshirt on April 1, 2011 at 5:45 PM

I told you to read my post because it would answer your question. Stop playing stupid.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 5:46 PM

No. I don’t think Islam is a great religion, but tell me how actions like Jones’ help our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 5:36 PM

Our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan? Trying to stand up Islamic states with Islamic Law enshrined in their constitutions is an act of war against America and all of humanity.

Heckle on April 1, 2011 at 5:47 PM

Simple, they’re propaganda is, or will be, that Jones is partly to blame for stirring things up. You’ve said the same at least half a dozen times now.

Erich66 on April 1, 2011 at 5:41 PM

That doesn’t prove that I buy it. It only proves that I’ve been pointing out their strategy.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 5:48 PM

Mizflame, most people are completely ignorant about Islam. Who could blame them? All we’ve heard from our leaders and our media is how terrorists don’t represent “true” Islam.

Vera on April 1, 2011 at 5:48 PM

Our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan? Trying to stand up Islamic states with Islamic Law enshrined in their constitutions is an act of war against America and all of humanity.

Heckle on April 1, 2011 at 5:47 PM

And the fact that Shari’a is in the constitutions is exactly why I said:
“We’ve been fighting this war so stupidly”

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 5:49 PM

Thank you. Robert Spencer has done amazing work (without burning a damn thing); much more than this nincompoop has.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 5:46 PM

And do not for a moment think that Muslims would not love to behead Robert Spencer.

Heckle on April 1, 2011 at 5:49 PM

Cue the moral equivalency between arguably bad judgment and bloody, homicidal religious fanaticism.

novaculus on April 1, 2011 at 5:50 PM

The thing is Jones knew that this would make violence more likely and he knew that someone over there was more likely to die because of it..but he wanted to make a point..

but why pour gasoline on a fire? Jones was careless at the very least.

Terrye on April 1, 2011 at 5:40 PM

You seem to have this idea that Islam is going to leave us alone if we find just the right words, just the right arguments to get through to them that we are their friends.

We aren’t their friends and we can NEVER be their friends. Their religion forbids it. As long as they are Muslims it is their religious duty to attack us and that will never stop until they change their religion or they are dead. There will always be a certain number of them who perform the duty of Jihad and it is a fight that never ends.

We will never remove that percentage of people from among them without destroying Islam.

He didn’t alert people to anything people didn’t know already.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 5:43 PM

You don’t it. You think that altering out behavior will somehow make them less kill crazy.

Terrorism works.

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 5:51 PM

I mostly agree with the criticisms of Terry Jones. But the thing is, it doesn’t matter. He’s a nobody.

Just like me, these murderers have never been to Florida, and have no idea who Terry Jones is.

If these people are searching the entire world for somebody to be offended by, they’re sure to find someone. I mean, the population of Earth is something like 7 billion, right? There are offensive fools to be found if you’re willing to look hard enough.

sandberg on April 1, 2011 at 5:51 PM

Robert Spencer has done amazing work

Yes, he has. So have many others. Each of them is the subject of a Fatwa. Speaking out against Islam in any form is “justification” to kill. The only reason this crew didn’t site Mr. Spencer is because the media hasn’t given him the attention. If they knew of him, they would kill in his name.

Vera on April 1, 2011 at 5:52 PM

Those young people were almost certainly Muslim…and in Iran today people like that have to hide.

Terrye on April 1, 2011 at 5:29 PM

I hung out with alot of those young people, and my brother dated one for a while. That’s because most of them left Iran after the revolution for Europe and America, as many as could afford to. Like in so many instances, so many people leave a nation while in turmoil that there aren’t enough left to restore it to what it once was. Most of the Middle East has been de-Westernized, and living any other way is forgotten.

shuzilla on April 1, 2011 at 5:52 PM

And do not for a moment think that Muslims would not love to behead Robert Spencer.

Heckle on April 1, 2011 at 5:49 PM

Well, as a personal friend of his, I know the things they threaten him with. Robert doesn’t engage in behavior that is counter productive. He sticks to his facts, he knows his stuff (more than anyone on this subject), and he doesn’t partake in the immature, outlandish displays of hate that people like Jones do.

Robert has actually worked with Muslims, such as Tashbih Sayyid, who passed away in 2007 (famous Pakistani journalist. Shi’ite). You want Muslims to work with the FBI here, stateside? You want people to ignore CAIR’s fliers about ignoring the FBI’s pleas for help? Well, don’t be surprised when a bunch stop helping because they see people like Jones burning the Qur’an, and others supporting him. Impressions matter.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 5:54 PM

That doesn’t prove that I buy it. It only proves that I’ve been pointing out their strategy.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 5:48 PM

Well c’mon, i think everyone here knows what their strategy is.

Erich66 on April 1, 2011 at 5:54 PM

Truthfully, I think their societies are so oppressive that they are driven into riotous frenzies and murder not because of their faith, but to let off steam.

Queen0fCups on April 1, 2011 at 5:56 PM

Well, don’t be surprised when a bunch stop helping because they see people like Jones burning the Qur’an, and others supporting him. Impressions matter.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 5:54 PM

So that would make them supporters of terrorism because someone burned a book, right?

But these are the people we want to be our friends?

I don’t need and I don’t want friends like that!

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 5:57 PM

Vera on April 1, 2011 at 5:52 PM

There is NOTHING wrong with being truthful and forthright on the issues within Islam. However, book burning is intentionally inflammatory, and offers nothing to the discussion. It doesn’t help us garner allies in the Muslim community, here and abroad ‘Cause, believe it or not, there have been Muslims that have helped us out in our struggles since 9/11.

Keep it up though with the book burning, though. Before you know it, no one will want to help.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 5:57 PM

-
So all resistance to the implementation of sharia should stop once a certain level of violence is seen as a reaction to said resistance…. Now I get it.
-

RalphyBoy on April 1, 2011 at 5:43 PM

Uh, what implementation of Sharia law in Florida?

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 5:58 PM

If you want to change things over there, you need allies. You want allies? Ditch the book burning displays. It’s elementary sense.

Unless of course, you don’t want us to be involved over there at all (but you’re still left with pushing away informants and help here at home), or you want to turn the mideast into a parking lot.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 5:59 PM

You don’t it. You think that altering out behavior will somehow make them less kill crazy.

Terrorism works.

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 5:51 PM

I’m not saying alter our behavior. I’m saying there is no reason to go out of our way to be pricks.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:00 PM

Keep it up though with the book burning, though. Before you know it, no one will want to help.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 5:57 PM

So if the bible is burned then Christians can be expected to support murder and bombings because they are upset?

I very much doubt that.

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 6:00 PM

So if the bible is burned then Christians can be expected to support murder and bombings because they are upset?

I very much doubt that.

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 6:00 PM

You’re playing games with my words. Cut it out.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 6:01 PM

outlandish displays of hate that people like Jones do.

Do you think if you just keep saying it again and again it will be true? Jone’s acts weren’t born out of hate. He was making a statement as as Christian against what he viewed as a Satanic book. He proclaimed, loudly and to whoever would hear, that “Islam is of the Devil” not out of “hatespeech” but because it was his honest conclusion after reading its texts.

Could he have thought of a better way to denounce Islam? Yes, though I doubt the reaction int he Muslim world would be any different if he had, say, ripped out the violent verses and burned them instead of burning the entire text.

Vera on April 1, 2011 at 6:02 PM

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 5:54 PM

He sorta got disappeared off HA, though, didn’t he? I always wondered about the message that sent to the jihadis.

a capella on April 1, 2011 at 6:02 PM

You don’t it. You think that altering out behavior will somehow make them less kill crazy.

Terrorism works.

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 5:51 PM

I’m not saying to alter our behavior. I am saying there is no reason to go out of our way to be jerks. Remember the golden rule. I doubt he would be happy if someone burned his holy book. Sure he wouldn’t cause a riot and start killing but I doubt he would be happy if someone made a point to burn his bible just to “prove a point.” It was a stupid publicity stunt that proved nothing but the obvious. That he’s an ignorant a-hole and some Muslims will riot when you tick them off. Anyone with access to a newspaper, magazine, a TV, or a radio knows that and we didn’t need this tool to demonstrate what sets them off.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:03 PM

The irony is that the proper islam-prescribed way to dispose of damaged or worn-out korans is by burning.

slickwillie2001 on April 1, 2011 at 6:04 PM

blatantblue, I do not see you as someone speaking for Robert Spencer, so please don’t. This is from JihadWatch, Robert Spencer’s web site, and I do not see this as in anyway going after Jones. In fact he is refered to as an “obscure U.S. pastor” http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/04/priorities-and-proportional-response-burned-quran-in-florida-used-as-pretext-for-20-murders.html

Heckle on April 1, 2011 at 6:04 PM

If you want to change things over there, you need allies. You want allies? Ditch the book burning displays. It’s elementary sense.

Unless of course, you don’t want us to be involved over there at all (but you’re still left with pushing away informants and help here at home), or you want to turn the mideast into a parking lot.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 5:59 PM

Why don’t you list for us everything we need to stop doing to assure we don’t offend our “allies.” Koran burning, check. There were riots when Newsweek published a report that a Koran may have been flushed down the toilet. The same with cartoons depicting Muhammed. Anything else?

Erich66 on April 1, 2011 at 6:05 PM

blatantblue, I do not see you as someone speaking for Robert Spencer, so please don’t.

I forgot, you know everything.

Just speaking for what I’ve read from him. But thanks for checking.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 6:05 PM

You’re playing games with my words. Cut it out.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 6:01 PM

No I am illustrating the underlying contempt you have for Muslims.

You are assuming they are savages who cannot control themselves and cannot be expected to live up to civilized conduct the way you would expect Christians to.

That is either true, or it is false.

If it is true your argument fails because they will never stop killing.

If it is false your argument fails because they can behave in a better fashion than they do and we should demand exactly that.

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 6:05 PM

Burn a book and kill at least 12 innocent people in response.

Makes perfect sense to me.

princetrumpet on April 1, 2011 at 6:05 PM

Mizflame, most people are completely ignorant about Islam. Who could blame them? All we’ve heard from our leaders and our media is how terrorists don’t represent “true” Islam.

Vera on April 1, 2011 at 5:48 PM

The only ones that are ignorant to it are the ones who choose to stay ignorant. From November 4, 1979 on we’ve experienced Islam at work in Iran and other parts of the world. If you haven’t caught on that those people are bat guano crazy; an idiot burning a Koran will not sway your opinion.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:07 PM

He sorta got disappeared off HA, though, didn’t he? I always wondered about the message that sent to the jihadis.

a capella on April 1, 2011 at 6:02 PM

I remember that. I also remember that it was not Robert Spencer’s choice. I suppose hotair management thought of him as some here think of Jones.

Heckle on April 1, 2011 at 6:07 PM

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 6:05 PM

Some cannot control themselves. Others can. And I do have a contempt for traditionalist, jihadist Muslims.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 6:08 PM

It was a stupid publicity stunt that proved nothing but the obvious.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:03 PM

Except it isn’t obvious to a great number of people. Islam we are told is the Religion Of Peace and many still buy into that nonsense.

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 6:08 PM

Just speaking for what I’ve read from him. But thanks for checking.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 6:05 PM

You said you were a personal friend.

Heckle on April 1, 2011 at 6:10 PM

I Islamic Spring Jihad

FloatingRock on April 1, 2011 at 6:10 PM

You said you were a personal friend.

Heckle on April 1, 2011 at 6:10 PM

Okay, let me be incredibly clear for you.

I am, but nothing I said is nothing you cannot find yourself.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 6:10 PM

The only ones that are ignorant to it are the ones who choose to stay ignorant. From November 4, 1979 on we’ve experienced Islam at work in Iran and other parts of the world. If you haven’t caught on that those people are bat guano crazy; an idiot burning a Koran will not sway your opinion.

Not true. If your only source of information is the 5PM news, you would probably think that Islam has been “hijacked by extremists.”

Vera on April 1, 2011 at 6:11 PM

Think about the farcical nature of a religion with the belief that burning a book or drawing a picture justifies the taking of a human life.

Seriously. Think about how ludicrous that sounds.

ButterflyDragon on April 1, 2011 at 6:13 PM

He sorta got disappeared off HA, though, didn’t he? I always wondered about the message that sent to the jihadis.

a capella on April 1, 2011 at 6:02 PM

It was really unfortunate. I really wish they’d feature him again here. He is still linked, which is good, but not enough.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 6:13 PM

Well c’mon, i think everyone here knows what their strategy is.

Erich66 on April 1, 2011 at 5:54 PM

Well, either Jones didn’t know or he’s a leftie and is purposefully trying to stir the pot to further the propaganda machine. Wouldn’t be the first time a leftie did that.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:14 PM

Jones acted as a judge in a mock trial of the Quran this past Sunday. His Gainesville congregation found the book “guilty” of promoting violence. The book was “sentenced” to be burned at his Dove World Outreach Center.

So Jones burns a Koran because he found it guilty of promoting violence, and followers of the Koran responded by murdering 12 people completely unconnected with the incident.

Seems to me they just proved Jones’ point, didn’t they?

Socratease on April 1, 2011 at 6:15 PM

Uh, what implementation of Sharia law in Florida?

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 5:58 PM

-
If someone in Fla breaks sharia… 12 people somewhere have to die… ergo, no breaking sharia in Fla or you stand partly responsible for the deaths.
-
Today no book burning… tomorrow who can say?

RalphyBoy on April 1, 2011 at 6:15 PM

At the end of the day, some obscure dork burns a Koran, and a bunch of murderous savages go on a rampage.

That’s the equation. People can talk and talk about how we need allies and this or that is inflammatory, and these are certainly correct in many ways. But the essential fact is A book burning several thousand miles away was capable of spurring a religious mob to mass murder and in their religion they were essentially correct in doing so (except for the whole they-killed-the-wrong-people thing). How do we deal with a religion like that without suppressing it? And what do we become if we do start suppressing it?

WitchDoctor on April 1, 2011 at 6:15 PM

I’m a person who is about utility. I don’t find any utility in book burning. It is pointless to me. Nice debating.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 6:17 PM

princetrumpet on April 1, 2011 at 6:05 PM

It works. How many media outlets shy away from anything that could be considered confrontational? They are intimidated by the threat of physical harm. Current events tell us they are correct. It is the classic rent a mob technique, only the mob doesn’t require money, just manipulation by the mullahs.

a capella on April 1, 2011 at 6:18 PM

And what do we become if we do start suppressing it?

WitchDoctor on April 1, 2011 at 6:15 PM

Survivors?

We went after Communism and Fascism and survived, so why is this any different?

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 6:20 PM

Ugh, what happened to the good old days. We should burn down every building and all infrustructure they have and salt the earth so nothing grows there for centuries and then leave. These people are animals.

thphilli on April 1, 2011 at 5:36 PM

When precisely did we do that, I thought we were magnanimous in victory and their are farms in Germany and Japan today. But yes, radical islam needs to be defeated, and they need to be dragged into the 21st century.

clnurnberg on April 1, 2011 at 6:21 PM

Except it isn’t obvious to a great number of people. Islam we are told is the Religion Of Peace and many still buy into that nonsense.

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 6:08 PM

You can’t fix stupid by burning a Koran.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM

I’m a person who is about utility. I don’t find any utility in book burning. It is pointless to me. Nice debating.

blatantblue on April 1, 2011 at 6:17 PM

You are myopic. You can not only not hit the target, you can not even see it.

Heckle on April 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM

We went after Communism and Fascism and survived, so why is this any different?

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 6:20 PM

Why are Patton and Petraeus so different? The answer is the same.

Heckle on April 1, 2011 at 6:24 PM

You all seem to be missing the point.

If the Muslims get their way, you won’t even get to talk like you have.

This is a binary proposition. Either they win or someone else does.

We’ve ignored them pretty much for centuries because they live in places where no one else wanted to be. But the world has gotten smaller AND we have a large bureaucracy based on the idea that they have to encourage threats so that they (the bureaucrats) can grow.

Just because you aren’t a big enough fanatic to kill people for an insult to your deity, don’t go projecting on everyone else.

Islam is not a religion, it is a political system demanding total control.

CrazyGene on April 1, 2011 at 6:26 PM

You can’t fix stupid by burning a Koran.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM

Yes you can.

You can go on TV and ask questions about Obama’s Birth Certificate.

You can submit legislation criticizing Obama’s Libyan adventure using Obama’s own words.

These may be stunts and provocations but they make a deeper point that gets at the truth of what is going on.

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 6:26 PM

Hey what happened to the BS that Islam is a peaceful religion? Up in smoke like the rest of the nonsense that the neo cons were selling.

Was one once and I too believed that you could bring freedom and a democratic republic to those animals. Got over myself…barbarians one and all. Even living in the west doesn’t change them if they are hardcore believers.

PierreLegrand on April 1, 2011 at 6:27 PM

Not true. If your only source of information is the 5PM news, you would probably think that Islam has been “hijacked by extremists.”

Vera on April 1, 2011 at 6:11 PM

Honey, when I was a kid in the 70′s and my only source of info was the 5PM news, I knew they were bat guano crazy. It doesn’t take a whole lot to figure out that burning our flags while chanting death to America, taking UN officials hostage, hijacking planes, bombing embassies, bombing soldier barracks, and slamming planes into skyscrapers are the work of a deviant group of people that do not care for their own well being because they feel they have God on their side.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:28 PM

You can’t fix stupid by burning a Koran.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM

Nor can you fix stupid by acquiescing to terrorist threats.

ButterflyDragon on April 1, 2011 at 6:28 PM

Yes you can.

You can go on TV and ask questions about Obama’s Birth Certificate.

You can submit legislation criticizing Obama’s Libyan adventure using Obama’s own words.

These may be stunts and provocations but they make a deeper point that gets at the truth of what is going on.

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 6:26 PM

But no one is burning anything when that is being done. Apples and oranges my friend.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:30 PM

Afghan mob kills at least 12 UN workers in protest over Terry Jones’s Koran-burning

Sometimes people just really want to prove the other side right. Thanks Afghan mob.

Scrappy on April 1, 2011 at 6:30 PM

But no one is burning anything when that is being done. Apples and oranges my friend.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:30 PM

Are you really this obtuse, or are you just messing with me?

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 6:34 PM

Nor can you fix stupid by acquiescing to terrorist threats.

ButterflyDragon on April 1, 2011 at 6:28 PM

No one is acquiescing to terrorist threats. There is no need or purpose for doing something that will have an obvious result. You don’t need a terrorist threat to know that if you burn a Koran the savages will react.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:34 PM

Most Muslim people, just as most other ordinary religious or non-religious people, are peaceful. But the Muslim religion is satanic. It kills and degrades. And please, don’t try any false equivalency with Christianity. That is a farce.

mydh12 on April 1, 2011 at 6:36 PM

This guy burned a book. A book.
They killed 12 people.

I happen to agree, I find book burning stupid, flag burning, stomping as well. But come on, some idiot burns a book and 12 people die.
Telling people not to burn books is not the answer. I’m not sure burning more books is the answer but it is a hell of a lot closer than telling people not to burn books out of fear. The barabrian behavior is the problem not the immature pyromania.

ORconservative on April 1, 2011 at 6:38 PM

Are you really this obtuse, or are you just messing with me?

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 6:34 PM

You know, I was wondering that about you.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:38 PM

It’s time, well past time really, to protect ourselves from this dark ages death cult.

We already have “honor killings”, sudden jihad syndrome attacks, plain “olde tymie” jihad attacks, there are 35 islamic terror training camps here now, sharia law is being implemented, and Americans are being arrested for the “crime” of free speech – when it’s directed toward muslems.

It needs to be nipped in the bud, before we go down the road Europe is doomed to die on.

It is a matter of survival – islam has no place in the modern world, most especially America.

Rebar on April 1, 2011 at 6:38 PM

“What are you willing to stop doing to avoid offending violent religious Islamic zealots?”

Let’s be a little more specific here Mike.

labrat on April 1, 2011 at 6:38 PM

Uh, what implementation of Sharia law in Florida?

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 5:58 PM

http://nation.foxnews.com/justice/2011/03/22/judge-orders-use-sharia-law-florida

Connie on April 1, 2011 at 6:39 PM

Anybody criticizing him is a cowardly, craven, fool, who doesn’t deserve to be free. FU*K EM ALL.

cjk on April 1, 2011 at 6:37 PM

BINGO. One must be on one side or the other on this. It is not something like how much ketchup to have on your french fries where you can split the difference.

Heckle on April 1, 2011 at 6:41 PM

No one is acquiescing to terrorist threats. There is no need or purpose for doing something that will have an obvious result. You don’t need a terrorist threat to know that if you burn a Koran the savages will react.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:34 PM

You just made my point while trying to refute it.

But, but, but… if you don’t do “X”, “Y” or “Z”, then they won’t get violent.

You are changing your behavior in order to not suffer any consequences. That’s what terrorism is all about.

LOL

ButterflyDragon on April 1, 2011 at 6:41 PM

What would George Patton do? What would Charles Martle do? What would Pope Urban II do?

Heckle on April 1, 2011 at 6:26 PM

Well, if they were in charge, 12 people wouldn’t have died if a douche bag decided to burn a koran.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:41 PM

They offended me when they attacked the WTC back in the 90′s, and destroyed them in 2001. They offended me, when they bombed the USS Cole. They offended me when they murdered Daniel Pearl for merely doing his job. They offended me when murdered thousands of innocents on 9/11. Not just at the WTC. I could go on, and on.

Burning a book compared to the thousands they’ve slaughtered. Not just our own, but others around the world.

These people are a collective bunch of savages, who just look for an excuse to murder. I’m done trying to find empathy for them, what little there was. This is in their blood apparently, and they are more than happy to perpetrate an act or acts of murder whenever they can.

capejasmine on April 1, 2011 at 5:40 PM

Look! You just don’t get it.
Are you some kind of intolerant redneck or what?

Islam is a religion of peace.

esnap on April 1, 2011 at 6:43 PM

You are changing your behavior in order to not suffer any consequences. That’s what terrorism is all about.

LOL

ButterflyDragon on April 1, 2011 at 6:41 PM

Actually, the change in behavior is burning the Koran to stir up a bunch of nut jobs to prove a point that’s blatantly obvious. Terrorism forces people to change their daily behavior for fear of their lives. Burning the Koran is not a daily ritual.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:43 PM

http://nation.foxnews.com/justice/2011/03/22/judge-orders-use-sharia-law-florida

Connie on April 1, 2011 at 6:39 PM

Sharia law was not implemented. The agreement the parties had beforehand was that if any type of disagreement occurred, they’d use Sharia Law to settle the dispute. Just as many other parties agree to mediators beforehand.

The judge didn’t implement Sharia Law, he ruled that they needed to settle the dispute in the manner both parties had agreed.

Let’s not be disingenuous about it, please.

ButterflyDragon on April 1, 2011 at 6:46 PM

The UN workers had nothing what-so-ever to do with the actions of the good Rev…PERIOD! Those trying to associate these acts of premeditated murder committed by followers of Mohammad to the constitutionally guaranteed and protected practice of free speech here in America are willingly advocating appeasement, capitulation and defeat……or maybe they are just plain STUPID!

dmann on April 1, 2011 at 6:46 PM

Terrorism forces people to change their daily behavior for fear of their lives. Burning the Koran is not a daily ritual.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:43 PM

No terrorism forces people to change whatever behavior the terrorist wants changed. You give in or you don’t. Your prescription is to give in and let them have their way, rather than make them mad.

You are letting Islam dictate what is acceptable in our society.

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 6:46 PM

Terrorism forces people to change their daily behavior for fear of their lives. Burning the Koran is not a daily ritual.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:43 PM

Daily change in behavior? Ludicrous. They want behavior changed. Period. They don’t care if it’s a daily behavior or not. They want to dictate to you how you need to act and if you don’t follow it, your life is forfeit. it’s that simple.

Don’t try to make terrorism some nuanced religion.

ButterflyDragon on April 1, 2011 at 6:49 PM

No terrorism forces people to change whatever behavior the terrorist wants changed. You give in or you don’t. Your prescription is to give in and let them have their way, rather than make them mad.

You are letting Islam dictate what is acceptable in our society.

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 6:46 PM

No. I’m letting our morals dictate what is acceptable. That is why I’m calling Jones a jerk & the murderers animals.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:54 PM

It’s amazing how this man is called all these names by the cowardly freaks around here. I wonder what these A-holes would have said about those who pulled down George The 3rd’s statue for bullets?
This guy is burning his own book on private property, thereby exposing these fiendish animalistic creeps for what they are.
HE’S DOING US ALL A SERVICE HERE YOU IDIOTS.
Spineless cowardly creeps among us.

cjk on April 1, 2011 at 6:55 PM

Don’t try to make terrorism some nuanced religion.

ButterflyDragon on April 1, 2011 at 6:49 PM

LMAO! Honey, the one thing terrorism is not is nuanced.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:55 PM

Actually, the change in behavior is burning the Koran to stir up a bunch of nut jobs to prove a point that’s blatantly obvious. Terrorism forces people to change their daily behavior for fear of their lives. Burning the Koran is not a daily ritual.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:43 PM

Why are you being an apologist? It would make sense, somewhat, if someone hunted down Jones and killed *him* for burning the book as it’s his action, but 12 random people. No excuse. None.

And isn’t it nice that they accommodated Jones and proved him right?

Hm. I wonder what kind of bad behavior or savagery I could indulge in and have someone else reap the consequences. Maybe I should convert to Islam. It won’t be my fault!

Maybe I’ll even have my own apologist!

kim roy on April 1, 2011 at 6:58 PM

Maybe after all of these years it is time for us to leave Afghanistan. Screw building a nation of murderous dirt farmers. Let them build their own. We don’t need to have boots on the ground to prevent it from becoming a terrorist haven, we can bomb them into oblivion.

Our values are simply not compatible with the values of people who kill over the burning of a book that happened thousands of miles away. Not compatible. I was all for marching in there and kicking terrorist arse but this adventure is approaching the decade mark so let’s declare victory and go home.

crashland on April 1, 2011 at 6:59 PM

What exactly did these 12 U.N. workers have to do with Terry Jones? What is the justification for killing these specific people?

We were told the “humanitarian” “limited scope” “limited time” “kinetic military action” would appease the Islamic radicals and America would be beloved for our protection of “innocent civilians” by Barack the Benevolent.

DeathB4Tyranny on April 1, 2011 at 7:01 PM

Well, if they were in charge, 12 people wouldn’t have died if a douche bag decided to burn a koran.

Your nonsense is getting old, between this and the other thread.

These mindless, semi-human savages brutally murdered 12 people because that is who they are.

They were egged on by their mullahs, and being the ignorant, idiotic vermin that they are, they carried out these attacks.

These mullahs could have sat there in the prayer session and said that Mickey Mouse tore a page from their holy book of infinite stupidity and used it to clean up Pluto’s “mess” and the reaction would have been the same.

This is America, and jackwagons are allowed to burn the flag, desicrate the crucifix and protest outside soldier’s funerals. And yes, other jackwagons are allowed to burn the koran.

Any attempts to give these animals an excuse for their actions is despicable. Anyone who even hints that there is an excuse for their actions, especially one so lame, is a loathesome swine.

Take your stupidity somewhere else.

reaganaut on April 1, 2011 at 7:02 PM

It’s amazing how this man is called all these names by the cowardly freaks around here.

It’s amazing how people confuse idiocy for courage.

I wonder what these A-holes would have said about those who pulled down George The 3rd’s statue for bullets?

Make my bullets .223 please.

This guy is burning his own book on private property, thereby exposing these fiendish animalistic creeps for what they are.

He didn’t need to do that when it was already quite obvious. Just go to Ground Zero if you have any doubts how Islam works.

HE’S DOING US ALL A SERVICE HERE YOU IDIOTS.

He’s a cult leader that did it to garner more publicity for himself. He is no savior.

Spineless cowardly creeps among us.

You have a right to your opinion. I just choose not to confuse stupidity with courage.

cjk on April 1, 2011 at 6:55 PM

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 7:06 PM

Dhimmi…

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

sharrukin on April 1, 2011 at 7:07 PM

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 7:06 PM

You should be airdropped among these gentle savages you FOOL. People like you don’t deserve freedom.
Explain how you slander someone as a cultleader with no evidence.
You wouldn’t know courage if it hit you over the head you craven defeatist.

cjk on April 1, 2011 at 7:10 PM

Why are you being an apologist? It would make sense, somewhat, if someone hunted down Jones and killed *him* for burning the book as it’s his action, but 12 random people. No excuse. None.

And isn’t it nice that they accommodated Jones and proved him right?

Hm. I wonder what kind of bad behavior or savagery I could indulge in and have someone else reap the consequences. Maybe I should convert to Islam. It won’t be my fault!

Maybe I’ll even have my own apologist!

kim roy on April 1, 2011 at 6:58 PM

I’m not being an apologist. I’m calling Jones a jerk. He’s a kook burger cult leader that has decided to pull a publicity stunt for the sake of it. He’s not doing it to prove a point. The point has been known for years. They’re animals and If I had my way I would do like the Israelis did after the Munich Olympics massacre and hunt every one of those dogs down. Jones is an attention whore, not a hero.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 7:11 PM

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 7:06 PM

So, what is your solution? To outlaw the burning of the Koran? To outlaw stupidity?

What exactly is your solution to this real world problem? Quit crying about Jones being stupid and tell me your solution to prevent this from happening again in the future.

I’m dying to find out what it is.

ButterflyDragon on April 1, 2011 at 7:11 PM

Remember how hundreds of Egyptian “democracy activists” raped that reporter in the street?

Do not fall for the “Arab Spring” or whatever they decide to call it. I suspect that most people in the Islamic world hate us a lot more than Soviets ever did during the Cold War. We’re infidels.

FloatingRock on April 1, 2011 at 7:13 PM

This is a stupid argument. The men who follow Islam cut off the clitorises of their female children, they strap bombs on retarded Muslims, send them into a crowd and blow them up. They train their male children to hate and kill to continue their idiotic circle of death, and we in the USA condemn a man for burning their how to book? Are you kidding me? I say pull every soldier out of the region because these people will never ever change. Let them kill each other, screw them and their oil. Get rid of the perpetual crooks, I mean politicians in both houses so we can start drilling here.

nwpammy on April 1, 2011 at 7:13 PM

Make my bullets .223 please.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 7:06 PM

Makes sense you’d go for 22′s
I’ll take 7.62/.303
Anyway It’s noticible how you sidestepped the issue.

cjk on April 1, 2011 at 7:14 PM

You should be airdropped among these gentle savages you FOOL. People like you don’t deserve freedom.
Explain how you slander someone as a cultleader with no evidence.
You wouldn’t know courage if it hit you over the head you craven defeatist.

cjk on April 1, 2011 at 7:10 PM

Here ya go:

He attended Cape Girardeau Central High School in Missouri where he graduated in 1969.[11] After being a hotel manager, Jones then worked as a missionary in Germany for over 30 years.[12] He founded and led the Christliche Gemeinde Köln (CGK), a church in Cologne, Germany, from 1981 to 2008[13][14] which was initially a branch of the Maranatha Campus Ministries and a sister church to Dove World.
A leader of the Cologne church said “He (Jones) didn’t project the biblical values and Christianity, but always made himself the center of everything.”[15] German press agency Deutsche Presse-Agentur reported that church members said Jones ran the Cologne church like a sect leader and used psychological pressure on members, “subordinating all activities to his will.”[16]
For publicly using an honorary degree from the unaccredited California Graduate School of Theology,[17] in 2002 he was fined by Cologne courts for illegally using the title “doctor”.[18] In 2008, he was ejected by the congregation in Cologne for being a Christian fundamentalist,[19] and due to untenable theological statements and craving for recognition, according to the German Evangelical Alliance,[20][21] amid allegations of financial impropriety and creating “a climate of fear and terror”.[17][22] Following Jones’ departure, the CGK closed,[13] then reopened under new, independent, leadership.

Face it. He’s a fraud and an attention whore.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 7:18 PM

Burning the Koran is not a daily ritual.

mizflame98 on April 1, 2011 at 6:43 PM

It should be.

In a braver world, it would be.

Rebar on April 1, 2011 at 7:19 PM

It would make sense, somewhat, if someone hunted down Jones and killed *him* for burning the book as it’s his action

kim roy on April 1, 2011 at 6:58 PM

Actually it would be a national embarassment. He should be given the full protection of the USA to execute his RIGHTS on our soil!
When the F*CK are we going to fight and throw this shit right back in these fiends faces?????!

cjk on April 1, 2011 at 7:03 PM

Hey, relax. I’m on your side. ;)

I was responding to the “well maybe if he wouldn’t have been silly and provoked them” line of reasoning.

Same as the “they can’t be expected to control themselves so we have to censor ourselves”.

But do relax. I mean that nicely. You’re going to have a heart attack.

kim roy on April 1, 2011 at 7:19 PM

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