Japan orders 140,000 people to seal themselves indoors after nuclear leak; Update: 6.2-magnitude quake rattles Tokyo
posted at 8:48 am on March 15, 2011 by Ed Morrissey
News got worse overnight from Japan’s stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. The containment pools covering the fuel rods now appear to be boiling in the reactors that have already been shut down, and storage pool walls have been damaged. Earlier today, Japan took the unusual step of ordering nearby residents to seal themselves in their homes — 140,000 people:
Dangerous levels of radiation leaking from a crippled nuclear plant forced Japan to order 140,000 people to seal themselves indoors Tuesday after an explosion and a fire dramatically escalated the crisis spawned by a deadly tsunami.
In a nationally televised statement, Prime Minister Naoto Kan said radiation has spread from the four stricken reactors of the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant along Japan’s northeastern coast. The region was shattered by Friday’s 9.0-magnitude earthquake and the ensuing tsunami that is believed to have killed more than 10,000 people, plunged millions into misery and pummeled the world’s third-largest economy.
Japanese officials told the International Atomic Energy Agency that the reactor fire was in a storage pond and that “radioactivity is being released directly into the atmosphere.” Long after the fire was extinguished, a Japanese official said the pool, where used nuclear fuel is kept cool, might be boiling.
The order applies to people living within a 19-mile radius of the plant. They have been ordered to stay inside and seal doors and windows and “make your homes airtight,” which will be nearly impossible, and unsustainable after a few days even if it weren’t. Eventually, people will need to exchange the stale air in their homes with the outside to maintain proper oxygen levels, and will have to find water and food as well.
Radiation levels south of the plant are now 100 times normal levels, which isn’t a problem for short-term exposure but could be a big problem for people who live there. Their fear now is less the radiation leaking at the moment, and more that the containment vessels won’t hold and the fuel rods will explode into the atmosphere. That will generate fallout that could poison the area for years.
However, the biggest issue facing Japan’s population may not be radiation, but a lack of heat and water. With electricity and with oil distribution disrupted, the cold winter presents immediate problems:
When Japan lost a large chunk of its electricity-generating capacity to the one-two punch of earthquake and tsunami, the narrative in parts of one of the world’s most technologically advanced societies was transformed overnight into one of Third World hardship.
For most Japanese, the rolling outages instituted in the wake of the twin disasters translate to inconvenience, sacrifice and economic loss. But for tens of thousands who are now homeless and huddled in evacuation centers in the hard-hit northeast, the stakes are much higher.
“Evacuation centers have half a million people in centers and schools that don’t have water, electricity and oil,” said Sheila Smith, senior fellow for Japan Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. “And the temperatures are near freezing. … (In some places) it is snowing. The immensity of this crisis cannot be understated.”
The crisis at Fukushima Daiichi has occupied the attention of nuclear-power experts, for obvious reasons, but that means that Japan cannot get its other undamaged reactors back on line quickly. Japan gets 35% of its electricity from nuclear plants, and there wouldn’t be enough excess capacity in other sources to cover that kind of loss. Other power sources need imported raw materials, which would be difficult to distribute internally in this crisis anyway. The shortage has required power companies to ration electricity through rolling blackouts until their supplies can reliably stay on line.
Update (AP): Both the Journal and the Times report that the situation at reactor number two has stabilized in some respects, with a core group of 50 emergency workers remaining behind to pump sea water into the containment vessel. Radiation levels near the plant are reportedly down sharply after soaring following the explosion at reactor two. As Ed noted, the major concern right now appears to be the possibility of spent fuel rods boiling over; according to the NYT, that area is now so dangerous that workers can’t approach it.
Update (Ed, 10:41 am): The Boss Emeritus has followed reports on Twitter that a quake measuring 6.2 magnitude struck the center of Japan today, hitting Tokyo. That’s within manageable range, but may complicate matters for responders if more damage occurs — or if this was a foreshock of a larger quake coming.
Update (Ed, 2:11 pm): I conflated two different alerts. The quake that hit today and rattled Tokyo was in the center of Japan, not off the west coast; that was an earlier quake report. I’ve fixed the headline and the last update.
Blowback
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The tree hugging text from the manufacturer is a little nauseating but mine works really well. I might even update since my doesn’t have a light.
Cindy Munford on March 15, 2011 at 10:13 AM
Punk.
Ann Applebaum‘s eyes are glazed over.
Her question is so completely off the mark.
It wasn’t and isn’t that Japan can’t build a safe nuclear plant so no one else can.
The sorry ass point of the matter is that Japan CHOSE to build first, to gamble and disregard the facts of the matter as if they didn’t know their own geological vulnerability. Furthermore, Japan CHOSE to never decommission any of their primitive nuclear facilities while there was yet time to refurbish with the latest SAFE TECHNOLOGY.
So the only relevant question that Applebaum should have asked is whether any nation today has the where with all to build the most modern and safe nuclear energy facilities since Japan failed to CHOOSE to do so themselves.
Leaders failed their people, gambling against the odds, leaving the problems augmenting in hopes of skating through their own careers without “incident”. To trust whatever messaging that particular leadership announces now would be unreasonable. France, for instance, is practicing modern nuclear energy on a grand scale. And their specialists discount the word from Japanese officials.
Expect the worst. And should things prove not so bad in the end, there’s some relief. But don’t count those blessings before they hatch.
May God and all people have compassion on the victims.
maverick muse on March 15, 2011 at 9:28 AM
——–
“The largest conceivable such ground motion was the upper limit design basis extreme earthquake ground motion (PGA) S2, generally assuming a magnitude 6.5 earhtquake directly under the reactor. ”
source:
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf18.html
With a 9.0, all bets are off for any structure.
Dave Rywall on March 15, 2011 at 9:34 AM
maverick muse on March 15, 2011 at 10:14 AM
The only solution is to outlaw air.
Of course, that’s the liberal definition of “the only solution” meaning: the thing that makes me FEEL most relevant, but doesn’t have jack squat to do with reality.
logis on March 15, 2011 at 10:16 AM
I did. A 9.0 near enough to a reactor sight to compromise the structure directly is a pie-in-the-sky event, and any radiation leakage is going to be kind of an afterthought at that point. Particularly if we are talking about intelligent location choices.
Count to 10 on March 15, 2011 at 10:18 AM
I did. A 9.0 near enough to a reactor sight to compromise the structure directly is a pie-in-the-sky event, and any radiation leakage is going to be kind of an afterthought at that point. Particularly if we are talking about intelligent location choices.
Count to 10 on March 15, 2011 at 10:18 AM
—-
So, yeah, I guess random anonymous people on a web board are saying that the Japanese who live in an earthquake zone were sloppy in selecting the safest location of their nuclear plants even though every structure on the island is built with a stricter building code that addresses earthquakes and the population has the best earthquake alert system on earth and there are frequent drills for preparedness and a massive national response system. Righhhhhht. So the people most watchful of earthquakes in their own backyard suddenly dropped the ball when it came to locating a nuclear plant(s). Righhhhht.
Dave Rywall on March 15, 2011 at 10:23 AM
He’s right. The nuclear situation is not as bad as those on this thread and others, and even Allahpundit’s headlines have made it seem. Catastrophe in the nuclear plants has not come to pass. A bad situation exists, and some radiation has been released. A significant amount even.
But the failure to focus on the fact that almost a million Japanese have lost food, water, shelter, and half have lost loved ones in the earthquake and tsunami is what is being neglected by focusing on a sideshow of a nuclear radiation release. The situation is not good at the nuke plant, obviously. But the probability of further deaths occurring from a radioactive release pales in significance to the fact that a half million Japanese are going to starve in the near future unless they get some food, fuel, water, and help.
The MSM focusing on the reactors interferes with that message. Hype is winning over common sense.
Subsunk
Subsunk on March 15, 2011 at 10:24 AM
3 forms of radioactive materials you need to worry about. The plastic will do nothing to stop gamma rays but will generally take care of Alpha and Beta particles. The last two are what they are trying to mitigate against.
chemman on March 15, 2011 at 10:26 AM
I have not seen one report on the spent rods. I guess they dont want to say where they are, maybe they are not even stored in Japan, which makes sense since they have not mentioned them.
WoosterOh on March 15, 2011 at 10:26 AM
China has just announced they are beginning evacuation of all Chinese citizens in northern Japan. (source – AP)
Limerick on March 15, 2011 at 10:27 AM
MJBrutus on March 15, 2011 at 10:12 AM
complete rubish. Inflation is a short cut to wealth generation. it’s a figleaf. A strong company increases profits buy expansion of goods and services. a strong compnay will use periods of deflation to produce more goods to capture more market share. Inflation eats away at company profits because it means less people are able to buy their product.
The reason deflation is a dirty word among the elites is because it is a stake to their hearts. GM should have dropped prices to the point that demand picked up and still able to make a small profit on each car. If they couldn’t make a profit that simply is the market signal that their business plan is not working and capital would have been redirected to other business.
If GM or ford would have dropped prices increasing demand they would have started a positive feedback loop. as demand increases employment increases and demand increases.
what inflation does is introduce a negative feedback loop. As prices increase demand slackens off which means compnaies layoff workers whihc means less demand and higer prices as companies fight to keep profit margins. which means higer unemplyment and less sales and more unemployment.
Inflation and deflation are not dirty words but part of capitalism you can not have one without the other. The economic signals in 2008 showed we needed a massive deflationary cycle to occur due to inept economic intervention for the last 30 years trying to destroy the business cycle and “protect” the citizens from the downside of capitalism.
unseen on March 15, 2011 at 10:27 AM
Deflation is only really a problem because of the way our banking system and wage levels are set up. Basically, the way that you can deposit money into a bank for free and be guaranteed to be able to withdraw at any time in the future not only all of the principle, but any interest earned as well, means that the banks have no way of passing malinvestment losses back to their depositors without some level of inflation.
If deposits put into banks were more like shares, having a market adjustable value, then deflation wouldn’t be so dangerous for the banking system. Likewise, if wages were allowed to fluctuate (particularly downward) instead of being frozen in place for years at a time, deflation wouldn’t have negative consequences in the labor market.
Count to 10 on March 15, 2011 at 10:29 AM
Well put. I encourage everyone to donate to disaster relief instead of panicking about fallout that will most likely only have minimal effects on the Japanese themselves. They need food and water first and foremost.
NotCoach on March 15, 2011 at 10:30 AM
But the failure to focus on the fact that almost a million Japanese have lost food, water, shelter, and half have lost loved ones in the earthquake and tsunami is what is being neglected by focusing on a sideshow of a nuclear radiation release. The situation is not good at the nuke plant, obviously. But the probability of further deaths occurring from a radioactive release pales in significance to the fact that a half million Japanese are going to starve in the near future unless they get some food, fuel, water, and help.
The MSM focusing on the reactors interferes with that message. Hype is winning over common sense.
Subsunk
Subsunk on March 15, 2011 at 10:24 AM
———–
Absolutely, the media is obsessed with the nuclear situation, but that doesn’t affect the victims or rescuers. The people on the ground in Japan are most certainly getting on with rescue/recovery operations.
The CBC and BBC are jumping back and forth from headlining nuclear vs rescue/recovery operations. CNN, FOX, MSNBC, ABC etc are all nuclear crazy all the time.
Dave Rywall on March 15, 2011 at 10:31 AM
If you will notice, there was not danger to the plant from the earthquake itself — it was the fact that they built the thing on the shoreline, exposed to the tsunami that took out their backup power generators, that caused the problem. Had the reactor so much as been on a hill, it would be fine.
Count to 10 on March 15, 2011 at 10:33 AM
Not often we agree but this is one. I’ve given up on the local chicken littles.
Limerick on March 15, 2011 at 10:34 AM
They did not neglect the possibility of tsunamis. They just didn’t build for tsunamis as large as the ones that struck. The tsunami that took out their generators was much larger than any that had ever hit that coast in recorded history.
NotCoach on March 15, 2011 at 10:36 AM
That doesn’t follow.
Inflation is a general increase in demand relative to $’s, matched with a general decrease in supply relative to $’s.
Count to 10 on March 15, 2011 at 10:38 AM
Well, the new 6.1 magnitude earthquake was located more or less directly below Mt. Fuji.
Apparently this has already caused a fire in Fujinomiya City. Hopefully this won’t augur other earthquakes in the Kanto area (or an awakening of Fuji), but it won’t encourage all the panickers in the stock markets.
http://www.jma.go.jp/en/quake/20110315224046391-152231.html
fiatboomer on March 15, 2011 at 10:39 AM
If you will notice, there was not danger to the plant from the earthquake itself — it was the fact that they built the thing on the shoreline, exposed to the tsunami that took out their backup power generators, that caused the problem. Had the reactor so much as been on a hill, it would be fine.
Count to 10 on March 15, 2011 at 10:33 AM
—————–
No damage from the earthquake? Ridiculous.
Putting it up on a hill? It ain’t that simple. It just isn’t.
Dave Rywall on March 15, 2011 at 10:40 AM
NotCoach, that hits home.
Our city just determined to decommission all of the sirens installed following the tornado that struck 15 years ago. The city council’s “reason” was that the city has grown since then, and rather than build sirens in the new sections of town, they’d rather spend our taxes on new street signs that include the city logo, and now a new $5million city hall rather than the one that’s 15 years old. And this is the crew of local politicians become establishment that we once elected to replace the “corrupt” ones.
maverick muse on March 15, 2011 at 10:40 AM
Yes but aren’t the brave little media soldiers to be there? / I equate it with them standing out in the middle of a hurricane, stupid and unnecessary. I, personally, would like to see how the Japanese people are getting on with repairing their lives, it would be a lesson for all.
Cindy Munford on March 15, 2011 at 10:41 AM
Point.
Which means it comes down to a failure to over-design and bad luck. Still, tsunami’s are inherently random, and they put the thing right on the coast.
Count to 10 on March 15, 2011 at 10:42 AM
There is a little thing called energy propagation. The loss of energy related to its source is geometric (1/d^2). So Maverick Muse it the nail on the head location, location location. If the 9.0 hit under the plants then you have a very serious problem but the 9.0 was 200 miles away. I’ve gone through a 7.2 that was over 200 miles away and a 6.0 that was 25 miles away. The 6.0 generated worse movement.
chemman on March 15, 2011 at 10:42 AM
Osaka rattled this morning with those two 6.0s.
Limerick on March 15, 2011 at 10:43 AM
That is unfortunate. In today’s world most people know before the sirens blare they should take cover. But that is no excuse. The sirens are a warning to all and the cost of maintaining a safety network like sirens is relatively minuscule.
NotCoach on March 15, 2011 at 10:44 AM
Not no damage, no danger.
And yes, if they had put it on top of a big enough hill, the wave wouldn’t have hit it. There might be reasons that it would be inconvenient to put it at elevation (like access to water), but the fact still stands.
Count to 10 on March 15, 2011 at 10:45 AM
Yes but aren’t the brave little media soldiers to be there? / I equate it with them standing out in the middle of a hurricane, stupid and unnecessary. I, personally, would like to see how the Japanese people are getting on with repairing their lives, it would be a lesson for all.
Cindy Munford on March 15, 2011 at 10:41 AM
——
Well which is it – do you want he uplifting story of the man rescued off the floating debris or not? If you do, someone’s gotta go out there and get the story.
CNN idiots standing in a hurricane as it’s happening telling us wow look how windy it is vs journalists reporting on the aftermath on Japan are two completely completely completely different things. Standing in a hurricane is a ratings wank. Covering rescue/recovery is important.
Dave Rywall on March 15, 2011 at 10:47 AM
Sounds like the backup generators for the cooling systems could’ve been located a few more meters off the ground.
Christien on March 15, 2011 at 10:48 AM
Thanks for putting the time on the UPDATE, very helpful. Where is our HotAir commenter from Tokyo? I hope he is okay.
Cindy Munford on March 15, 2011 at 10:48 AM
Hey, if you’ve got a Beta VCR and some tapes can I get an invite?
Oldnuke on March 15, 2011 at 10:50 AM
I was agreeing with you about balanced coverage.
Cindy Munford on March 15, 2011 at 10:50 AM
Exactly! Cooling is a huge consideration when constructing nuclear power plants. Container breech due to impact is unlikely. Breech due to overheating is a much larger concern.
csdeven on March 15, 2011 at 10:51 AM
Count to 10 on March 15, 2011 at 10:45 AM
Sounds like the backup generators for the cooling systems could’ve been located a few more meters off the ground.
Christien on March 15, 2011 at 10:48 AM
——-
Yeah, I guess you could have put them up on a mound of earth 30 metres off the ground or up on a hill a ways away and buried the wires.
Dave Rywall on March 15, 2011 at 10:51 AM
I was agreeing with you about balanced coverage.
Cindy Munford on March 15, 2011 at 10:50 AM
——-
I was just clarifying that
Cooper in middle of hurricane = idiot
Cooper on ground in Japan aftermath = okay
Dave Rywall on March 15, 2011 at 10:53 AM
Ed, they have suffered over 250+ earthquakes in the last 4 days. Many greater than 6.0. Hopefully there will not be another monster quake any time soon. But aftershocks this large are not unusual when compared to the last few days of seismic activity.
NotCoach on March 15, 2011 at 10:53 AM
NotCoach on March 15, 2011 at 10:36 AM
Expectations. Geological figures are only as reliable in worst case scenario as working from worst case figures rather than “typical”.
A problem remains in effect when profits mattered more than safety in the final decisions of where to build what.
(This safety point can also be illustrated with flood zones designated on maps as if limited to one flood each century. Tell that to the residents –perhaps new to the region– who bought into newly constructed neighborhoods assuming that municipalities would not zone residential regions on flood zones. Yet the heavy rains come, and floods wash through new neighborhoods.)
maverick muse on March 15, 2011 at 10:54 AM
Totally agree.
Cindy Munford on March 15, 2011 at 10:57 AM
That doesn’t follow.
Inflation is a general increase in demand relative to $’s, matched with a general decrease in supply relative to $’s.
Count to 10 on March 15, 2011 at 10:38 AM
the more a price increases the less demand. Inflation is the market’s way to limit the demand for products. when demand is higher than supply prices go up to LIMIT the demand. conversely when supply outstrips demand prices fall to STROKE demand. The higher the inflation (higher prices) the less demand for that product.
Housing is a great example during the boom times housing prices went up, up and up as demand far outstripped supply. Once the demand was met by over construction and less credit available. Prices nosedived. inflation will not occur again in the housing market until the supply is soaked up and the demand becomes more than supply.
Since inflation is seen in expanding economies those that do not understand the underlying reason for that inflation think inflation means a good economy. When inflation is introduced in an economy that does not have demand by artifical means (like printing money out of thin air, government spending on needless and wasteful things), the net result is it LIMITS the demand further.
the exact opposite of what you need to occur. In a demand led recession the object is to STROKE demand which means you have to have deflation. Falling prices.
what the government is doing by causing inflation is limiting demand.
the government and liberals believe that the economy is based on emotion. If you fear higher prices down the road you will rush out to buy goods today….If you think prices will fall you wait to buy goods. so the government thinks deflation will cause economic hardship. That is simply not true. People buy prodcuts and engage ins services based on needs, wants and ability to pay. Not on emotion.
unseen on March 15, 2011 at 10:57 AM
Wow, I didn’t know our resident Canadian troll also had a PhD in nooccular physics.
angryed on March 15, 2011 at 10:57 AM
The last quake wasn’t on the west coast, but just the opposite side of Tokyo from the Fukushima quake of days ago. Which is still shaking us a few times per day. The quake of a short while ago was centered in Shizuoka, just west of my place. It was far enough inland as to pose no tidal wave threat and the consensus seems to be that it isn’t a foreshock. Although no one will guarantee that.
We’ve now had a quake on both sides of us and await the meteor shower. Kidding aside…, it’s cold and wet this evening and I don’t think many people here want to deal with any more shaking tonight. Keep those prayers coming. They just might hold back the snowfall we’re hearing MIGHT come to these hardest hit areas.
Rugged Individual on March 15, 2011 at 10:58 AM
Correct, they got hit with a wave that was several feet higher than their design basis tsunami. That they’ve done so well is a testament to plant overdesign and the people working to make the reactors safe.
Oldnuke on March 15, 2011 at 10:58 AM
NotCoach on March 15, 2011 at 10:44 AM
Not so in this neck of the woods. Tornadoes are always a possibility in thunderstorms. But in Central Texas they spawn instantly and hit instantly with no necessary sighted warning in advance. But the “new” population aren’t from Texas, and don’t know what they’re permitting.
maverick muse on March 15, 2011 at 11:00 AM
Kudos for an on the ground update. Prayers for all there.
Limerick on March 15, 2011 at 11:01 AM
Good grief, if the West coast of Japan starts getting hammered where will these folks go? How much can these folks take?
Cindy Munford on March 15, 2011 at 11:02 AM
It’s not an aftershock, unless it’s an amazing anomaly.
MadisonConservative on March 15, 2011 at 11:03 AM
That’s not what liberals or govt think. That’s what happens, based on decades worth of empirical data.
Deflation is a bad thing. It sounds good in theory. Cheaper prices, great, I can buy more stuff. But cheaper prices means producers of that stuff make less profit. So they stop making the stuff. And lay off workers, who don’t buy anything, which leads to even lower prices for goods as demand falls. And you’re into the deflationary cycle.
Look at housing as the perfect example of a deflationary cycle. Prices fell. People expect prices to fall even more. They don’t buy. Which leads to prices falling more. Which leads to house builders (producers) not building anymore.
At some point the cycle ends when items become so cheap that people buy because the risk of buying today vs. buying tomorrow is so low, it’s acceptable.
angryed on March 15, 2011 at 11:03 AM
Thanks for the update. We’re praying for you.
Cindy Munford on March 15, 2011 at 11:03 AM
When the tornado sirens blare where you live do you automatically assume your house will be destroyed?
NotCoach on March 15, 2011 at 9:04 AM
This always makes me giggle a bit….. yes, we’re always prepared for just that possibility, BUT …..
With so much super radar coverage that we LOVE to follow in stormy times, we can pretty much tell how close the trouble is to us (sirens blow with WARNINGS, within our rather large county).
So, with this technology at our fingertips, we now tease that a tornado siren is usually our signal to grab our video cameras and run outside !!
We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.. Sorry.
pambi on March 15, 2011 at 11:06 AM
Reading these comments is boring.
KMC1 on March 15, 2011 at 11:10 AM
6.4, not 6.2
WoosterOh on March 15, 2011 at 11:12 AM
I can’t read apparently. My bad.
NotCoach on March 15, 2011 at 11:12 AM
Thanks for the update, and stay safe!
Christien on March 15, 2011 at 11:12 AM
Are you being held at gunpoint? Can we contact the authorities for you?
Cindy Munford on March 15, 2011 at 11:13 AM
I am one of those few that never watch the weather. So on those rare occasions that I do hear the sirens I am usually caught off guard. :P
NotCoach on March 15, 2011 at 11:14 AM
They had one 6.?? in 47 hours, now they have had 3 in the past 6 hours.
WoosterOh on March 15, 2011 at 11:14 AM
Nightline focused most of their show last night on the recovery efforts, and the efforts of the Japanese in trying to cope. What I found amazing was the politeness of the people, who quietly and patiently waited in line (some of them holding toddlers or babies) for hours for basic necessities. NO cases of looting reported, NO riots, NO pushing and shoving.
Ward Cleaver on March 15, 2011 at 11:16 AM
I should say, Japanese TV says it was 6.4, so they have changed their numbers.
WoosterOh on March 15, 2011 at 11:18 AM
Look at housing as the perfect example of a deflationary cycle. Prices fell. People expect prices to fall even more. They don’t buy. Which leads to prices falling more. Which leads to house builders (producers) not building anymore.
At some point the cycle ends when items become so cheap that people buy because the risk of buying today vs. buying tomorrow is so low, it’s acceptable.
angryed on March 15, 2011 at 11:03 AM
housing crash was caused by an inflationary cycle. Prices got to the point where people could no longer afford the homes. the housing sector is in the middle of a massive oversupply prices are falling because there is not enough demand. the government tried to prop up prices by offering $8,000 tax credit.
You want to end the housing crisis price the homes at a price that increases demand to soak up the homes.
Those companies that can build a house and make a profit doing it for the price that people are willing to pay will survive. Those that can’t will go under.
Prices are not falling because people think the price will fall further. prices are falling because of oversupply in the market.
unseen on March 15, 2011 at 11:20 AM
This post explains much. Not about economics but about why you’re so wrong about economics. Inflation and deflation do not cause supply or demand increases, it is the result of such changes! Your understanding is exactly the opposite of reality.
Completely back asswards. A strong company may try to capture share by lowering their prices, but they will take a short term loss to do it. Doing so will induce deflation in their market, not the other way around. Deflation or are symptoms, not causes. They are only METRICS!
It is the market for their materials and labor and capital that determines at what price they can make a profit. GM competes on all of those fronts and if they cannot build and sell cars more cheaply than their competition they lose market share. It they could not make a sufficient profit to attract investment they would go under just as if they charge customers too much that they stop buying from that company.
Inflation and deflation do not cause companies to raise or lower prices. They are tools we use to measure the rise and fall of prices!
MJBrutus on March 15, 2011 at 11:20 AM
This is pretty standard procedure for a small radiation release. They’re keeping people indoors because any fast-decaying radioactive isotopes would be dangerous if they come in contact with skin. But those will die off pretty rapidly.
I think there’s a panic of the unknown here that’s unwarranted. The cores are shut down, and there’s almost no chance of a true melt-down (that breaks containment) in Fukishima. The other two sites that were “at risk” are both completely fine now.
This stuff can sound scary, but if you actually look at what experts are saying, the systems are working pretty well for sustaining an earthquake and tsunami.
jdfister on March 15, 2011 at 11:22 AM
I also saw a story on the government’s request that the conserve energy and they are exceeding the request. We have much to learn from these people.
Cindy Munford on March 15, 2011 at 11:23 AM
Why couldn’t it be an aftershock? Experts are predicting something in the range between 7.0 and 7.5.
HondaV65 on March 15, 2011 at 11:25 AM
Reality is overlooked here. If you look at google earth real time earthquake, Japan is not out of the water yet. What are the facts? A meltdown is highly possible considering all the environmental factors and human ability to control the nuclear plant. There is ongoing electricity shutdown and no media to inform the affected population of radiation dangers. In the long run, there will be a shortage of water and food which in any case will become contaminated. Are the authorities waiting for the worst before they evacuate? Is money more important then people?
Monas on March 15, 2011 at 11:25 AM
There’s been dozens of aftershocks and only one of them came from the west coast, and most of them have been 3-4 in magnitude. Something that powerful coming from the other side…sounds like a harbinger.
MadisonConservative on March 15, 2011 at 11:33 AM
Let the mutations begin.
Gort to Klaatu: “Told you so….now can I zap’em?”
BobMbx on March 15, 2011 at 11:39 AM
Wherever you came from, I invite you to go back.
MJBrutus on March 15, 2011 at 11:46 AM
That’s cold comfort for people with skin in the game over there.
Christien on March 15, 2011 at 11:50 AM
According to a diagram I just saw on Japanese TV, the pools containing the spent fuel are actually at fairly high level within the buildings housing the reactors. The level of the pools is near the top of the reactor. It seems like it would make more sense to it be stored at a lower level, say the bottom of the building, where it would be less likely to lose water.
I don’t know the first thing about nuclear engineering however. Can anyone who is more informed comment?
DarkCurrent on March 15, 2011 at 11:50 AM
It is the market for their materials and labor and capital that determines at what price they can make a profit. GM competes on all of those fronts and if they cannot build and sell cars more cheaply than their competition they lose market share. It they could not make a sufficient profit to attract investment they would go under just as if they charge customers too much that they stop buying from that company.
MJBrutus on March 15, 2011 at 11:20 AM
you do understand GM got bailed out by the gov right?
unseen on March 15, 2011 at 11:50 AM
Why couldn’t it be an aftershock? Experts are predicting something in the range between 7.0 and 7.5.
HondaV65 on March 15, 2011 at 11:25 AM
it could be an aftershock
unseen on March 15, 2011 at 11:52 AM
Here’s an updating list of quakes in the area: Earthquake List for 10-degree Map Centered at 40°N, 140°E.
AbeFroman on March 15, 2011 at 11:56 AM
That is an understatement Mrs M.
darwin-t on March 15, 2011 at 11:59 AM
Whatever. Hey, anybody see who Obama picked to go to the Final Four?
fossten on March 15, 2011 at 12:01 PM
Inflation and deflation do not cause supply or demand increases, it is the result of such changes! Your understanding is exactly the opposite of reality
MJBrutus on March 15, 2011 at 11:20 AM
You might want to explain to retail companies that cutting prices (deflation) does not lead to increase in sales (demand) and decrease in inventory (supply)…. I
unseen on March 15, 2011 at 12:01 PM
…………………utterly breathtaking.
MadisonConservative on March 15, 2011 at 12:03 PM
Bingo. Generators and secured supplies of diesel fuel for them, along with a reservoir of water and it is quite possible that this would not be in the news. With those changes this type of nuclear power generating station may be made perfectly safe for the future.
Re California and the rest of the coast, yes they are subject to tsunami, but in places the coast of California is marked by high cliffs which would protect the land. In evaluating nuclear sites along the Pacific coast the elevation of the site must be considered.
slickwillie2001 on March 15, 2011 at 12:05 PM
Damn…This absolutely brings tears to my eyes. Screw everything else, these people need our support and prayers.
specialkayel on March 15, 2011 at 12:06 PM
Link to some incredible photos of the devastation.
WARNING: Dead people in first picture.
NotCoach on March 15, 2011 at 12:08 PM
What is your problem? Did I say otherwise? You are spiraling down in a really bad way. Please stop because it’s painful to watch any longer.
The argument that you made is that deflation causes lower prices and I corrected you and said that deflation is measure of lower prices, not its cause. Your example here just goes to my point.
MJBrutus on March 15, 2011 at 12:12 PM
I didn’t realize that the spent-reactor pools were put directly above the reactors, which ensured that if there was an explosion or other issue with the reactor, the spent-fuel pools would be damaged. As this article says, thats like mounting the oil tank for your furnace directly above the furnace itself. Thank you, GE engineers.
dave742 on March 15, 2011 at 12:13 PM
What is your problem? Did I say otherwise?
hmmm yeah you did here…..
Inflation and deflation do not cause supply or demand increases, it is the result of such changes! Your understanding is exactly the opposite of reality
The argument that you made is that deflation causes lower prices and I corrected you and said that deflation is measure of lower prices, not its cause. Your example here just goes to my point.
MJBrutus on March 15, 2011 at 12:12 PM
care to show where i made that argument?
the argument i made is that lower prices (deflation) increases demand. I have no idea what you are talking about..You post was complete rubish. you know it You were cuaght on it and now you make up something out of whole cloth to deflect from you being called out on your stupidity.
unseen on March 15, 2011 at 12:37 PM
I have been digging for news on this since the first explosion on Reactor #2. Here is a list of shipments of spent fuel to Japan’s Reprocessing and Long-term Storage Facility, (the very thing we refuse to build in the USA).
TONS of uranium (equivalent) were shipped from these reactors in 2006. This would be even worse if they did not address the whole fuel cycle. (Thanks Jimma Carter!)
Reagan reversed Carter. Clinton reversed Reagan. Bush abdicated, but the fact remains that we store ALL of our spent fuel onsite. The Japanese don’t.
Open Yucca Mountain.
WWCathodeRay on March 15, 2011 at 12:44 PM
Reagan reversed Carter. Clinton reversed Reagan. Bush abdicated, but the fact remains that we store ALL of our spent fuel onsite. The Japanese don’t.
Open Yucca Mountain.
WWCathodeRay on March 15, 2011 at 12:44 PM
didn’t Obama cancel yucca mt for good?
unseen on March 15, 2011 at 12:47 PM
WWCathodeRay on March 15, 2011 at 12:44 PM
didn’t Obama cancel yucca mt for good?
http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/newsarticle.aspx?id=24743
unseen on March 15, 2011 at 12:48 PM
I was stationed at Misawa Air Base in the early 90s. It gets very, very cold in Northern Japan. :(
As with everyone else, my heart is breaking.
baldilocks on March 15, 2011 at 12:48 PM
Yep. Thanks to the National Academy of Science.
The money quote:
I am a scientist, but I am ashamed of the NAS. They have protected the lizards of Nevada from a 350 mREM dose for a million years, but have increased the risk of nuclear power wherever it is generated.
Life is a balance of risk, and NAS has failed in evaluating that balance. (I know. They are really smart. Some of them even have Nobel Prizes.)
WWCathodeRay on March 15, 2011 at 1:00 PM
Obama is taking iodine pills while hitting the links… just to be safe.
profitsbeard on March 15, 2011 at 1:02 PM
Nobel does not equal smart as much as it equals Progressive/Socialist
darwin-t on March 15, 2011 at 1:08 PM
Wonderful. Next you’ll be making the argument that the earth orbits the sun. Congratulations.
You said:
That was the start of all the garbage that you’ve been belaboring us with. The fact is that inflation punishes those who save and rewards those who borrow (especially the government). That is because the saved money is worth less when it is accessed and the borrowed money is worth less when paid back. It hurts rich and poor alike. When wages and prices rise together at the same rate, inflation does not harm workers otherwise, but does hurt those on fixed incomes.
As Milton Friedman explained, inflation is a monetary phenomenon. It is measurement that increase when too much money is chasing too few goods. When company A lowers its prices, that does not create deflation. The example you describe of selling below market value to capture market share results in prices returning to market value later as long as competition remains. It is not deflation.
MJBrutus on March 15, 2011 at 1:14 PM
Arguing about reactor location is rather moot at this point and a waste of time.
The real issue now is how to deal with the current problem and help save those in trouble.
I sure hope it’s not too late to save those people and contain the problem. We should offer to send our experts and assist the Japanese in every way possible, imho.
dogsoldier on March 15, 2011 at 1:19 PM
Inflation is what makes the rich richer and the poor poorer. Deflation is what makes the rich poorer and the poor richer.
MJBrutus on March 15, 2011 at 1:14 PM
so you admit you made up what I said since you can not link to the supposed argument I made… and instead go off on a completely different attack point….I see. just admit you lied/made up crap when you were called out on your economic stuipdity. it will save us all time….
the fact is defaltion hurts the wealthy more than the poor. inflation hurts the poor since it pushes them out of the market and makes needed items more expensive. inflation lowers the standard of living of the those on the lowest rungs of the ladder, inflation hurts savers, fixed incme people and the poor.
unseen on March 15, 2011 at 1:51 PM
Just look at the housing market. We are in a deflationary era. How’s that working out for the rich home builders? How’s it working out for the poor construction workers?
Yeah, you’re right. Give us more of that. /sarc
MJBrutus on March 15, 2011 at 2:00 PM
When company A lowers its prices, that does not create deflation. The example you describe of selling below market value to capture market share results in prices returning to market value later as long as competition remains. It is not deflation.
MJBrutus on March 15, 2011 at 1:14 PM
fwhen did I say sell their product below market vaule?
Again you make up an argument to try to wiggle out of what you said. here is my quote:
notice that nothing is said about dropping prices below market vaule. I also did not state they should have sold for a loss to capture market share. They needed to take a hit on profit margins. Make less profit per product, they needed to drop prices to increase demand creating a new “market price” Market price is never set in stone. It changes depending on demand/supply/ cost of inputs/ sales/ labor etc.
Walmart shows how it is done. those that failed to drop their prices to the new Walmart lows were forced out of business. Walmart stimulated demand with the lower prices and made more profit with lower prices because of increased demand.
I eagerly await your next made up comment about something I never said…
unseen on March 15, 2011 at 2:08 PM
Yeah when the tornado sirens go of here you bet your a$$ we get to our saferoom. I live outside Huntsville Alabama, we get more tornadoes than ANYBODY. I’ve lost count of how many CLOSE ONES we’ve been thru. Most happen here at nite.
I saw one bad one, one spring during the day(very unusual), wipe out about 50 homes, from my front porch, I am in sunlight, and a wall cloud black as nite swept by about 1/2mile from us.
RE: giving. UMCOR provides relief efforts around the world.
Please give if you can. UMCOR operations are financed by the United Methodist Churches Worldwide, so 100% of your gift goes to relief.
http://new.gbgm-umc.org/umcor/
orbitalair on March 15, 2011 at 2:08 PM
I’m almost possibly sure that was sarcasm, what the cathode dude said
Ugly on March 15, 2011 at 2:16 PM
Please, the evasion is entirely on your part. None of what you’re talking about here has to do with inflation. You’re just belaboring the obvious implications of supply and demand curves and pretending that’s what the argument is about and that you know more about what prices GM could afford to sell their product than GM did.
All of your self-congratulatory posing is proof positive of a fail, nothing else.
MJBrutus on March 15, 2011 at 2:20 PM
Just look at the housing market. We are in a deflationary era. How’s that working out for the rich home builders? How’s it working out for the poor construction workers?
Yeah, you’re right. Give us more of that. /sarc
MJBrutus on March 15, 2011 at 2:00 PM
the housing market is a product of an inflationary cycle. The home builders and home construction workers made out like bandits during the good times. Those that managed their business well, did not over build are doing fine as are their workers. The fact is most home builders were badly managed they built too many homes for the demand. and the capitalistic cycle is claiming them and reallocating the resources during the now deflationary cycle. We have too many homes so the market is making home builders become something else. the system is working and if the homebuilders and homeowners that are fighting to keep prices of homes higher than demand would accept reality and lower thier prices the housing market would be recovered or in recovery now. You want to fix the housing problem drop the price until the supply is soaked up.
The housing market both the bubble and the crash are clear examples of capitalism at work and if the intervention of government was not in any cycle it would have been near perfect.
unseen on March 15, 2011 at 2:22 PM
MJBrutus on March 15, 2011 at 2:20 PM
your a waste of time. point to where i said what you claim or admit you are a lying fool. until then I’m done wasting my time on you. you have been called out. either produce the arguments you claim I made or admit your making crap up…
unseen on March 15, 2011 at 2:25 PM
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