Report: Meltdown at Japan reactor may be underway; Update: Meltdown caused explosion? Update: Another reactor in trouble; Update: New meltdown may be starting; Update: Or not? Update: Live feed added

posted at 12:47 am on March 12, 2011 by Allahpundit

Can’t find anything on the wires yet, but news is breaking all over Twitter and at Kyodo News. The headline:

BREAKING NEWS: Fukushima nuke plant might be experiencing nuclear meltdown

And:

BREAKING NEWS: Radioactive Cesium detected near Fukushima plant: nuke safety commission

Cesium would be the signature of a true meltdown. There’s no danger to civilians so long as the containment dome holds. If it doesn’t hold, oh boy.

Another ominous note via Twitter:

Four other Fukushima nuke reactors are struggling with similar problem. If multiple meltdown begins, it will be uncontrollable.

Looking for further details at news sites. Stand by for updates.

Update: Here’s a bare-bones report at Kyodo News repeating the bits quoted above.

Update: More from Al Jazeera:

“The events that occurred at these plants, which is the loss of both offsite power and onsite power, is one of the rarest events to happen in a nuclear power plant, and all indications are that the Japanese do not have the situation under control,” “Edwin Lyman, a nuclear expert at the Union of Concerned Scientists, a US-based nonprofit organisation, said…

However, Naoto Sekimura, a professor at the University of Tokyo, said a major radioactive disaster was unlikely.

“No Chernobyl is possible at a light water reactor. Loss of coolant means a temperature rise, but it also will stop the reaction,” he said.

“Even in the worst-case scenario, that would mean some radioactive leakage and equipment damage, but not an explosion. If venting is done carefully, there will be little leakage. Certainly not beyond the 3 km radius.”

Update: They’ve reached the point where they’re pouring water on the reactor out of a fire truck to try to reduce the temperature.

Parts of the reactor’s nuclear fuel rods were briefly exposed to the air after cooling water levels dropped through evaporation, and a fire engine was pumping water into the reactor, Jiji Press reported. The water levels are recovering, said operator Tokyo Electric Power, according to Jiji.

A TEPCO spokesman told AFP that ‘we believe the reactor is not melting down or cracking. We are trying to raise the water level.’ Kyodo News agency moments later said radioactive caesium had been detected near Fukushima plant, citing the nuclear safety commission.

Update: Another Japanese official tells the AP that even if a meltdown occurs, it shouldn’t affect anyone beyond a six-mile radius — and most of those people either have been evacuated or, no doubt, are in the process. All eyes now are on the containment dome.

Update: The WSJ confirms that people within a six-mile (i.e. 10-kilometer) radius were already being shipped out hours ago. Also, an update on the control room, where radiation levels reached 1,000 times the normal rate earlier:

Radiation levels aren’t supposed to rise in a control room, which is designed to allow operators to continue working during emergencies and is equipped with filtration systems and other design features to protect workers from radiation exposure. Nevertheless, experts said that a level that is 1,000 times normal probably isn’t immediately harmful.

The technicians on the scene battling this thing must be signing years of their lives away, if not decades.

Update: Finally, some good news from Kyodo News:

BREAKING NEWS: Pressure successfully released from Fukushima No. 1 reactor: agency (15:31)

That won’t stop a meltdown but it might prevent a fracture in the containment dome, which is now the last line of defense.

Update: Here’s some nice news to wake up to:

A huge explosion has rocked a Japanese nuclear power plant damaged by Friday’s devastating earthquake.

A pall of smoke was seen coming from the plant at Fukushima. Four workers were injured…

The Japanese government’s chief spokesman, Yukio Edano, said the concrete building housing the plant’s number one reactor had collapsed but the metal reactor container inside was not damaged.

He said radiation levels around the plant had fallen after the explosion.

Why would radiation levels around the plant fall because of an explosion?

Update: People within a 12-mile radius have now been evacuated. The core hasn’t completely melted down, Japanese officials say, and new cooling efforts are underway:

Tokyo Electric Power, which operates the plant, which is located 160 miles north of Tokyo, now plans to fill the reactor with sea water to cool it down and reduce pressure. The process would take five to 10 hours, Mr. Edano said, expressing confidence that the operation could “prevent criticality.”…

Japanese nuclear safety officials and international experts said that because of crucial design differences the release of radiation at the Fukushima plant would likely be much smaller than at Chernobyl even if the Fukushima plant has a complete core meltdown, which they said it had not.

As for why the concrete roof on the building would blow when they’d already released some gas to lower the pressure inside:

Those releases apparently did not prevent the buildup of hydrogen inside the reactor [Update: NYT error, see update below], which ignited and exploded Saturday afternoon, government officials said. They said the explosion itself probably did not result in dramatic increases in the amount of radioactive material being released into the atmosphere, but they expanded the evacuation area around the Daiichi plant from a six-mile radius to a 12-mile radius.

They’ve moved from battery power to the cooling system back to generators, which is a hopeful sign, but they still need to vent some gas in the containment dome to keep the pressure stable.

Update: Amazing video of the explosion via rdbrewer. Skip ahead to 50 seconds in for the blast. Even more amazing, given the force, is that the containment dome is still intact.

Update: A commenter at Ace’s site translates an article at Japan’s Asahi news site: “Hydrogen built up in a storage vessel and exploded. It was not the reactor.” I haven’t seen anyone else report that, and it contradicts the excerpt from the NYT quoted above. It’s also unclear why pressure would be building at the plant outside the reactor. Presumably it’s a byproduct of quake damage. If you come across an English-language news site confirming that it was a storage vessel, please tip us.

Update: Here’s a reassuring Reuters round-up of thoughts from several nuclear experts. Uniformly, they’re skeptical that this will turn into a major disaster. A quote from an official at the Chernobyl Nuclear Safety Center:

“The explosion at No. 1 generating set of the Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan, which took place today, will not be a repetition of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster,” Interfax quoted the Ukrainian expert as saying.

He said that the Japanese nuclear power plants use reactors of a totally different design to Chernobyl’s.

“Japan has modern-type reactors. All fission products should be isolated by the confinement (the reactor’s protection shell). Only gas emission is possible.”

Another expert speculates that the explosion might have been caused by the coolant overheating and turning to steam more rapidly than expected.

Update: Rod Adams, an activist who supports nuclear energy and a former operator at a light-water nuclear plant, also argues that the fears here are way overblown:

At [Three Mile Island], the widely predicted and discussed “China Syndrome” did not happen, even though 20-30% of the core melted and slumped to the bottom of the pressure vessel. That melted corium froze again once it contacted the thick metal walls – the maximum measured penetration was just 5/8ths of an inch. Anyone who has ever watched as welder employs a torch to cut through a thick steel wall will understand just how much concentrated power it takes to melt several inches of steel. Avoiding the China Syndrome was not a matter of luck – the scenario is imaginary and only works in fiction. Physics and material science make it impossible….

Radiation levels inside the containment will be many times higher than usual, but that is okay because no one needs routine access inside containment buildings and no humans will be over exposed. The containment walls, reactor coolant piping, and other equipment inside the containment building will condense and capture much of the radioactive materials that are entrained in the water. Other than those vented noble gases mentioned above, essentially nothing will be released to the environment.

His point about the strength of the containment dome is well taken, but the X factor here is the mega-quake. What happens to the structural integrity of a dome when it gets hit with a 9.1 tremor and dozens of giant aftershocks?

Update: Speaking of which, the aftershocks are still coming. The latest to hit the plant — after the explosion — was a 6.4.

Update: Contrary to the “calm down” message being pushed by nuclear experts this morning, Stratfor’s analysis of the situation at the plant is frightening:

However, the earthquake in Japan, in addition to damaging the ability of the control rods to regulate the fuel — and the reactor’s coolant system — appears to have damaged the containment facility, and the explosion almost certainly did. There have been reports of “white smoke,” perhaps burning concrete, coming from the scene of the explosion, indicating a containment breach and the almost certain escape of significant amounts of radiation…

And so now the question is simple: Did the floor of the containment vessel crack? If not, the situation can still be salvaged by somehow re-containing the nuclear core. But if the floor has cracked, it is highly likely that the melting fuel will burn through the floor of the containment system and enter the ground. This has never happened before but has always been the nightmare scenario for a nuclear power event — in this scenario, containment goes from being merely dangerous, time consuming and expensive to nearly impossible.

Follow the link for harrowing data on radiation exposure. That was written a few hours ago, but it seems to be behind the news curve. Japanese officials insist that the containment dome around the reactor core hasn’t been breached; in fact, they claim, radiation levels around the plant are dropping, not increasing. That’s not to say things couldn’t change — see my point above about aftershocks — but for now it looks like the nightmare scenario has been averted.

Update: NPR says that flooding the reactor core with sea water will effectively destroy the plant, but will (hopefully) prevent a meltdown. And if it does melt down? “[T]he only thing left to do will be to ‘seal it up with concrete. You sort of entomb it.’”

Update: Japanese officials keep insisting that the radiation leak thus far has been small, but three people in the area — randomly selected from a group of 90 — have already tested positive for radiation poisoning.

Update: A reader e-mails to point out that the Times has now changed the passage I quoted above about the explosion being caused by hydrogen building up inside “the reactor.” It now reads, “Those releases apparently did not prevent the buildup of hydrogen inside the plant, which ignited and exploded Saturday afternoon, government officials said.” Hence the confusion between the NYT report and the Asahi report on what caused the explosion.

Speaking of which, more details from the Times on what happened:

David Lochbaum, who worked at three reactors in the United States similar to the Fukushima design, and who was later hired by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to teach its personnel about that technology, said that from pictures he had seen of the stricken plant, the explosion appeared to have occurred in the turbine hall, and not the reactor vessel or the containment that surrounds the vessel.

The technology used at Fukushima is called a boiling-water reactor, in which the reactor, inside a containment, sends its steam out of containment to a turbine. The turbine converts the steam’s energy into rotary motion, which turns a generator and makes electricity.

But as the water goes through the reactor, some water molecules break up into hydrogen and oxygen. A system in the turbine hall usually scrubs out those gases. Hydrogen is also used in the turbine hall to cool the electric generator. Hydrogen from both sources has sometimes escaped and exploded, he said, but in this case, there is an additional source of hydrogen: interaction of steam with the metal of the fuel rods. Operators may have vented that hydrogen into the turbine hall.

Update: The Guardian thinks the hour of crisis has passed but notes that “the Japanese nuclear industry has a bad reputation for owning up to accidents and many observers remain cautious about accepting these claims [that things are under control] too quickly.”

Update: I’m now completely confused. As noted two updates ago, the going theory is that it was a turbine in the plant, not anything happening inside the reactor, that had exploded and blasted the walls off of the building housing the containment dome. But now comes this, which is being headlined by Drudge:

The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA) said Saturday afternoon the explosion at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant could only have been caused by a meltdown of the reactor core.

The Bellum blog at the Stanford Review notes that no one else is reporting this and that NISA’s latest statement on the situation at the plant says nothing about a meltdown. What we’re seeing here, I think, is a perfect storm of journalistic confusion: The facts on the ground are changing rapidly, so some information is constantly outdated; the details of nuclear engineering are obscure to laypeople, so reporters aren’t sure what to make of new developments; and Japanese officials may themselves be lying about how bad the situations, either to keep people calm or to cover their own asses while they can. According to the Times, they’re now saying that “a major meltdown is no longer imminent.” True? False? Somewhere in between? Exercise caution going forward. In fact, here’s a worthy read from Sci Am as we veer from calm to hysteria and back again: “Beware the fear of nuclear … fear.” Quote:

We know from studying the survivors of [the Hiroshima and Nagasaki] bombings, who were bathed in horrific doses of high level radiation – far worse than anything that could come from the Daiichi plant (or that came out of Chernobyl) – that ionizing radiation from nuclear energy is a carcinogen, but a relatively weak one. The roughly 100,000 survivors of the two atomic bomb blasts are known in Japan as hibakusha, and they are honored, and given special rights…

Based on studies of atomic bomb survivors, the World Health organization estimates the maximum lifetime death toll from cancer due to radiation exposure from Chernobyl, of roughly 800,000 people, will be about 4,000.

And what about environmental damage? A huge area around Chernobyl is off limits to humans for hundreds of years. But that’s to limit human exposure to ionizing radiation which, while dangerous, is less so than many of us presume. With people removed, wildlife in those areas is thriving.

Update: The number one reactor at Fukushima isn’t the only reactor at the plant that’s in trouble. Reuters reports that they’ve now lost their emergency cooling system at reactor number three.

Update: At 5:48 p.m. on Saturday, CNN reports that one of the reactors might be melting down:

A meltdown may be under way at one of Fukushima Daiichi’s nuclear power reactors, an official with Japan’s nuclear and industrial safety agency told CNN Sunday.

A meltdown is a catastrophic failure of the reactor core, with a potential for widespread radiation release. However, Toshiro Bannai, director of the agency’s international affairs office, expressed confidence that efforts to control the crisis would prove successful.

A spokesman for NISA told reporters that as long as they can continue pumping sea water in to the containment vessel (which one nuclear expert describes as a “Hail Mary pass”), the situation shouldn’t get any worse. And yet … it sounds like it’s getting worse. Maybe the meltdown is happening in reactor number three, which is also in a state of emergency right now?

Update: And with this, I’m officially ready to give up on this story. CNN now quotes Japan’s ambassador to the U.S. as saying there’s no evidence of a meltdown in progress:

“We are now trying to cope with the situation by putting salt water into the reactor,” he said. “There are some other issues with other reactors as well, which need also injection of water or taking out vapor because of increasing pressure into the container and we are now working on it.”…

Engineers have been unable to get close enough to the core to know what’s going on, an official with Japan’s nuclear and industrial safety agency told CNN Sunday. He based his conclusion on the fact that they measured radioactive cesium and radioactive iodine in the air Saturday night.

So after hours and hours of blogging this thing, there’s the verdict: No one knows what’s going on. Terrific.

Update: A reader passes along the link to this live feed — in English — of Japan’s national public broadcasting network, NHK. That’s probably your best bet for news on the reactor and other quake fallout in Japan.


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I, for one, welcome our new Chinese overlords.

myiq2xu on May 7, 2013 at 1:26 PM

I for one welcome our new Chinese Mexican overlords.

Viva LaBomb-bah!!

PappyD61 on May 7, 2013 at 1:33 PM

Guess Barry has kissed off borrowing any more money from the Chinese.

GarandFan on May 7, 2013 at 1:36 PM

ChiCom hackers? NO surprise here…

Khun Joe on May 7, 2013 at 1:38 PM

Guess Barry has kissed off borrowing any more money from the Chinese.

GarandFan on May 7, 2013 at 1:36 PM

I believe the Fed actually holds more US debt than China does now.

Doomberg on May 7, 2013 at 1:44 PM

How do they know the attackers are Chinese? An hour after they block one attack, they want to block another?

The Rogue Tomato on May 7, 2013 at 1:45 PM

Why does the Pentagon have critical computer systems hooked up to the internet in the first place? Closing that door should be fairly simple: Unplug internet access. For critical computer access from off site, manually-accessed dial up (I know, slow) on a secure phone line could be used.

The Chinese can’t hack it if it ain’t hooked up.

Same thing goes for our power infrastructure, NO controls whatsoever should be accessible via internet. Readouts, status? Sure. But no controls.

iurockhead on May 7, 2013 at 1:47 PM

Pentagon: Let’s get real here — a lot of this cyber espionage is coming from the Chinese military

Brought to you by technology stolen from Intel, Apple, Dell, Microsoft, et al, and students educated in the very best universities the United States has to offer.

thatsafactjack on May 7, 2013 at 1:47 PM

many intrusions also seemed aimed at obtaining insights into American policy makers’ thinking.

Lotsa luck with that. Our policy makers are as insightful as a box of rocks.

Happy Nomad on May 7, 2013 at 1:48 PM

Watch me walk around yellow noodle town

–one of Charles’s sock puppets.

tom daschle concerned on May 7, 2013 at 1:50 PM

The US company was warned and did Nothing/Nada, until it was too late.

Bill Clinton sold the secrets to the Chines. Obama gives them away.

Many aid him in the process, in the US.

Schadenfreude on May 7, 2013 at 1:50 PM

Chinese

Schadenfreude on May 7, 2013 at 1:51 PM

Time to issue a strongly worded statement–And we really, really mean it this time.

mwbri on May 7, 2013 at 1:51 PM

The report, released Monday, described China’s primary goal as stealing industrial technology

It’s very interesting about socialist and communist countries: they can’t develop ideas and new technologies of their own (because communism doesn’t offer proper incentives to develop them). So instead they steal from others.

It’s like when Canada took pharmaceuticals that were developed in the U.S. at enormous cost and energy and then copied them and sold them at great discounts saying “See! We offer medicine almost for free. That means we’re more caring than our greedy Southern neighbor.”

The Soviet Union put astonishing effort and resources into stealing technology from the U.S. They knew their system couldn’t develop anything on its own, so they just took from us instead. Liberals all over the world were in awe: “Look, the Soviet Union can compete with the U.S. in goods and services sort of. And they don’t have any of that evil capitalism.”

What liberals don’t quite get is that when the U.S. completes its transformation into socialism, it won’t be producing or creating anything new anymore and therefore there won’t be anything worth going to the trouble to get. To adapt Thatcher: “Socialism and progress (in medicine, labor-saving devices, science, etc.) stops working when there’s nothing worthwhile to steal anymore.”

Burke on May 7, 2013 at 1:52 PM

Brought to you by technology stolen from Intel, Apple, Dell, Microsoft, et al, and students educated in the very best universities the United States has to offer.

thatsafactjack on May 7, 2013 at 1:47 PM

The M.O. of Communist nations since WW2 ended: wait for the West to invent something your oppressed peasants are too uneducated, too poor, and/or too scared to try and make under your regime. Then steal it and make cheap knock-offs.

Though our laziness makes theft easy, it must gall them that they know they can never match us. Their back-asswards, socially unstable nation with a short-fused population bomb simply will not make parity possible.

MelonCollie on May 7, 2013 at 1:54 PM

Guess Barry has kissed off borrowing any more money from the Chinese.

GarandFan
on May 7, 2013 at 1:36 PM

I believe the Fed actually holds more US debt than China does now.

Doomberg on May 7, 2013 at 1:44 PM

.
Oh, that’s a GREAT relief. We’ll all sleep better tonight, knowing that. : )

.
Slightly O T:

Are there any Chinese still alive, who would remember aiding Doolittle’s Tokyo raiders elude the Japanese? I don’t know what that has to do with Chinese cyber espionage, but as I was reading it the thought came to mind and I couldn’t shake it.

listens2glenn on May 7, 2013 at 1:55 PM

In 50 years there will be one world, called Russia, capital in DC, run by the Chinese.

Schadenfreude on May 7, 2013 at 1:58 PM

In 50 years there will be one world, called Russia, capital in DC, run by the Chinese.

Schadenfreude on May 7, 2013 at 1:58 PM

.
There’s some “stupid” book out there, that predicts a ‘one world government’ that will last approx three and one half years (maybe longer).

I don’t know why people pay attention to such far-out books.

listens2glenn on May 7, 2013 at 2:07 PM

There’s some “stupid” book out there, that predicts a ‘one world government’ that will last approx three and one half years (maybe longer).

I don’t know why people pay attention to such far-out books.

listens2glenn on May 7, 2013 at 2:07 PM

One reason may be the number of self-defined “intellectuals” who dream of being the rulers in such a “Perfect State”. They’re probably the ones buying these books.

The trouble is, of course, that any such state would suffer the same fate as the Islamists’ dreamed-of “New Caliphate”. That is, it wouldn’t even last three and a half years, because inside of six months, every one of its leaders would be looking at the others and thinking,

You know, he’d look so much better with a knife sticking out of his back.

cheers

eon

eon on May 7, 2013 at 2:23 PM

What liberals don’t quite get is that when the U.S. completes its transformation into socialism, it won’t be producing or creating anything new anymore and therefore there won’t be anything worth going to the trouble to get. To adapt Thatcher: “Socialism and progress (in medicine, labor-saving devices, science, etc.) stops working when there’s nothing worthwhile to steal anymore.”

Last time I checked, most of the innovation was coming from those same ‘liberals’ that you brand as socialists. Believe it or now, innovation and scientific progress in this country has never been stronger. Your armchair observations are really bizarre.
Anyway, you don’t seem to understand the form of socialism- state ownership and control of corporations- that Hatcher was addressing.

bayam on May 7, 2013 at 2:35 PM

because communism doesn’t offer proper incentives to develop them). So instead they steal from others.
Burke on May 7, 2013 at 1:52 PM

I don’t think communism of itself has an inherent disincentive for innovation because there could be non-material rewards for innovation, such as public praise, satisfaction in solving problems and so on.

China wasn’t hugely innovative even before it flirted with communism and today, despite the insistence of some HotAir commentators, China is not even remotely a communist society, other than in official rhetoric and propaganda.

My explanation for why the Chinese are (relatively speaking) bad at innovation because of their underlying culture that has traditionally preferred deference to elders and “superiors”, conformity and “keeping face”. These culture traits do not encourage innovation nor nurture prospective innovators; Chinese students and workers alike are more inclined to “receive” and “follow” than to “question” and “lead”. It just so happens that those culture traits are easily co-opted by ideologies such as communism.

Contemporary western students and workers seem to be the opposite — questioning even what is long established (e.g. the basis for marriage) and pursuing individualism even to self-destruction. These traits provide an environment (at least for a few decades until the whole society collapses from self-contradiction) in which innovation flourishes and knowledge expands.

YiZhangZhe on May 7, 2013 at 2:44 PM

bayam on May 7, 2013 at 2:35 PM

There is nothing remotely liberal about the left any longer.

Perhaps you’re right, for once, Bayam. Perhaps I underestimated those technological giants.

Maybe they weren’t so greedy that they rushed to do business in a nation notorious for corporate espionage, deliberately ignoring repeated warnings from BILL CLINTON and others.

Maybe their operations weren’t so poorly designed and managed that it made stealing the secrets of their technology laughably easy.

Maybe, as you seem to suggest, these tech innovators of the left, each a genius in his field, intentionally became the victims of Chinese corporate espionage, thus enabling the Chinese to try to use that technology to hack out military information and control systems.

You know, with you to speak for them, the left doesn’t need any enemies.

thatsafactjack on May 7, 2013 at 2:50 PM

There’s some “stupid” book out there, that predicts a ‘one world government’ that will last approx three and one half years (maybe longer).

I don’t know why people pay attention to such far-out books.

listens2glenn on May 7, 2013 at 2:07 PM

One reason may be the number of self-defined “intellectuals” who dream of being the rulers in such a “Perfect State”. They’re probably the ones buying these books.

eon on May 7, 2013 at 2:23 PM

Your reply to listens2glenn is very funny if you were making a sophisticated, ironic joke, and much, much funnier if you were being serious.
:)

YiZhangZhe on May 7, 2013 at 2:51 PM

Are there any Chinese still alive, who would remember aiding Doolittle’s Tokyo raiders elude the Japanese? I don’t know what that has to do with Chinese cyber espionage, but as I was reading it the thought came to mind and I couldn’t shake it.

listens2glenn on May 7, 2013 at 1:55 PM

There must be. The remaining members of the Doolittle raid just held their 71st, and final reunion.

bigmacdaddy on May 7, 2013 at 2:57 PM

Pentagon: Let’s get real here — a lot of this cyber espionage is coming from the Chinese military

Remind me again … why is this so hard to acknowledge?

Jaibones on May 7, 2013 at 3:09 PM

Astounding, I could trace hits on my computer coming from China back in 2007. What ITH is going on at the pentagon?

jake49 on May 7, 2013 at 3:17 PM

Read Tom Clancy’s relatively new book Threat Vector if you want to learn how Chinese cyber espionage is done.

Threat Vector by Tom Clancy

http://www.amazon.com/Threat-Vector-Jack-Ryan-Novels/dp/0399160450/ref=sr_1_1_ha?ie=UTF8&qid=1367954879&sr=8-1&keywords=Threat+vector

Tom Clancy’s books are considered fiction, but shortly after I finished reading this action-packed book, I started seeing what could have been excerpts taken directly from this book, appearing in actual news stories.

wren on May 7, 2013 at 3:37 PM

Why havent we been treating this as an act of war and reposnding appropriately?

paulsur on May 7, 2013 at 3:54 PM

Last time I checked, most of the innovation was coming from those same ‘liberals’ that you brand as socialists. Believe it or now, innovation and scientific progress in this country has never been stronger. Your armchair observations are really bizarre.
Anyway, you don’t seem to understand the form of socialism- state ownership and control of corporations- that Hatcher was addressing.

bayam on May 7, 2013 at 2:35 PM

Innovations like “green energy” and electric cars?

Doomberg on May 7, 2013 at 4:09 PM

Why havent we been treating this as an act of war and reposnding appropriately?

paulsur on May 7, 2013 at 3:54 PM

Appropriately, you can answer your own question by referring to the ancient Chinese military text, known as “The Art of War”, by SunTzu.

http://www.sonshi.com/suntintro.html

YiZhangZhe on May 7, 2013 at 4:13 PM

Pentagon: Let’s get real here — a lot of this cyber espionage is coming from the Chinese military

Remind me again … why is this so hard to acknowledge?

Jaibones on May 7, 2013 at 3:09 PM

This is difficult for the establishment to acknowledge, because China supplies the cheap circus part of the bread and circuses that are required to keep the general public quiet about it’s ever shrinking piece of the economic pie. Economically what happens if we restrict trade with China?

DFCtomm on May 7, 2013 at 5:24 PM

Pentagon: Let’s get real here — a lot of this cyber espionage is coming from the Chinese military

Remind me again … why is this so hard to acknowledge?

Jaibones on May 7, 2013 at 3:09 PM

This is difficult for the establishment to acknowledge, because China supplies the cheap circus part of the bread and circuses that are required to keep the general public quiet about it’s ever shrinking piece of the economic pie. Economically what happens if we restrict trade with China?

DFCtomm on May 7, 2013 at 5:24 PM

There are many things we can do without restricting trade. How about stopping student visas for engineering and computer science for Red Chinese nationals?

slickwillie2001 on May 7, 2013 at 6:14 PM

YiZhangZhe on May 7, 2013 at 4:13 PM

You claim that a culture in which “innovation a flourishes and knowledge expands” is doomed to collapse.

That very innovation and expanding knowledge is what makes a society or culture flourish, and it increases its survival chances exponentially over cultures and societies who lack these qualities. These qualities are necessary for adaptability. That which does not adapt to changing conditions ceases to exist.

thatsafactjack on May 7, 2013 at 7:21 PM

There are many things we can do without restricting trade. How about stopping student visas for engineering and computer science for Red Chinese nationals?

slickwillie2001 on May 7, 2013 at 6:14 PM

So you wish to continue to give favored nation trade status to a hostile nation? I admit that to change the dynamic would create a great deal of pain, but in the end it’s the right thing to do.

DFCtomm on May 8, 2013 at 8:37 AM