The All Naked Bradley Manning Show

posted at 2:00 pm on March 6, 2011 by Jazz Shaw

Another week passes and another bizarre story emerges concerning the case of alleged traitor Pfc Bradley Manning, currently a long term guest of the United States Marines at the Quantico brig. This time it seems that feathers are being ruffled over a report that Manning is being forced to strip naked during sleeping hours and for morning muster.

The Brig has stripped PFC Manning of all of his clothing for the past three nights, and they intend to continue this practice indefinitely. Each night, Brig guards force PFC Manning to relinquish all of his clothing. He then lies in a cold jail cell naked until the following morning, when he is required to endure the humiliation of standing naked at attention for the morning roll call. According to Marine spokesperson, First Lieutenant Brian Villiard, the decision to strip him naked every night is for PFC Manning’s own protection. Villiard stated that it would be “inappropriate” to explain what prompted these actions “because to discuss the details would be a violation of PFC Manning’s privacy.”

This, of course, has the usual suspects up in arms, describing this treatment as everything from brutalization to being on par with Abu Ghraib style torture.

Even my friend Doug Mataconis, an attorney and one of the more sane voices on the web, raised questions about the propriety of this treatment.

If he’s convicted of these charges, he deserves to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. While he’s awaiting trial, though, and even after he’s convicted, he still must be treated humanely and, at present, Manning is receiving worse treatment than a Prisoner Of War would, and the only purpose behind it seems to be to break him psychologically. That’s simply unacceptable.

So what was the mysterious course of events that led to this decision to strip Manning down each night? It’s provided, ironically enough, by one of his biggest cheerleaders at Fire Dog Lake.

In response to PFC Manning’s question, he was told that there was nothing he could do to downgrade his detainee status and that the Brig simply considered him a risk of self-harm. PFC Manning then remarked that the POI restrictions were “absurd” and sarcastically stated that if he wanted to harm himself, he could conceivably do so with the elastic waistband of his underwear or with his flip-flops.

Mystery solved. Jane Hamsher excuses Manning’s “sarcastic” remark as justifiable given his frustration at being kept under special watch to ensure he doesn’t harm himself. (Not a surprise, since she and Glenn Greenwald would probably find a way to laud his actions even if he – or Julian Assange – were found feeding kittens into a wood chipper.) But in the military we had a different way to describe something like that. It’s known as mouthing off or being a smartass. And doing so to your superiors is generally not a wise move under the best of circumstances, say nothing of when you’re in the hoosegow on charges which equate to treason.

But can this treatment really be justified? There are two points to address on this front.

First and most simply put, Manning made the comment about being able to kill himself with his underwear, sarcastic or not. Can you imagine what would be said if the brig commander did nothing and then he actually did turn up dead in his cell by his own waistband? It would be a movable feast for the media and several careers would come to an abrupt end. How does the commander ignore something like that?

The second point is a bit more complicated and far less clear, and one that we’ve touched on here in the past. It boils down to some of the fundamental differences between civilian society and the military community. Just as civilians, used to all their freedoms of free speech, etc. don’t understand the restrictions on military personnel, those familiar with the civilian justice system are frequently shocked by many of the “unofficial” aspects of the U.C.M.J. Lots of things like this go on all the time in the military, or at least they used to back in the day. But normally you don’t have the civilian press watching and reporting on it.

Does that make it right? I leave that to the judgment of the reader.

Also, life in the military in general is just a bit more physical and harsh than in the civilian world. A lot of things happen which would probably shock many of you who have never served. In the Navy, for example, there is an old tradition of an initiation rite of passage the first time a sailor crosses the equator on a war ship. It is the time when you graduate from being a “pollywog” (or just “wog” for short) to being a “shellback.” Trust me, it’s an ordeal, usually lasting 24 hours or more.

The third time I made the passage, two enlisted men wound up in sick bay with broken arms. Everyone got to experience the joys of crawling through plastic chutes filled with garbage, rotting food and bilge water, all the while being “herded” by shellbacks wielding foot long lengths of fire hose, loving called, “shillelaghs.” (During my own initiation it took more than a week before the bruises finally faded.) And this is all for your friends who have done nothing wrong.

I’ll leave it for one of the veteran submarine sailors to tell you about the grand old tradition of having your dolphins “tacked on” if they wish to do so in comments.

So I suppose our final question is, does any of this make it acceptable for Manning to be treated in this fashion, either to cover the brig commander’s butt or for the sake of teaching a lesson to somebody mouthing off to their superiors? I really don’t know. Maybe we do need to shine a light on this and review military procedures, both official and “under the covers.” But I do know that life in the military community is a lot different than in the civilian world, and having lived it for a number of years myself, this story honestly didn’t shock me at all.

(The author would like to apologize in advance to friends, family and readers for the title of this column. What can I say? The devil made me do it.)

Now you can yell at Jazz for being a stupid, wrong-headed RINO even faster than by leaving a comment. Follow him on Twitter! @JazzShaw

This post was promoted from GreenRoom to HotAir.com.
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Trying to tie the summary toughness of this policy in with hazing rituals does both a disservice. The military doesn’t execute any of its tasks “because” it has a hazing mindset. Nor is an unsentimental, no-nonsense attitude about miscreants the same thing as a hazing mindset.

J.E. Dyer on March 6, 2011 at 5:08 PM

Didn’t Jazz make the comparison first?

gryphon202 on March 6, 2011 at 5:10 PM

Assange is in the military?

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:08 PM

Assange is an Australian citizen. He is not subject to either the constitution or the UCMJ. We are, however, quite capable of quietly extraditing him on espionage charges.

gryphon202 on March 6, 2011 at 5:12 PM

Didn’t Jazz make the comparison first?

gryphon202 on March 6, 2011 at 5:10 PM

He may have – but that doesn’t make it right. Look – this isn’t a “moral relativity” question.

The military says Bradley Manning is a danger to himself – why can’t we accept that at face value?

If you think about it – it makes perfect sense. He’s responsible for the deaths of a lot of people … which is something he didn’t think about too much before he took these actions – but he has a lot of time to think about now.

Were I him – I’d definitely kill myself. I couldn’t live with what I had done to good people.

So the guy’s suicidal – and that makes perfect sense in this world.

HondaV65 on March 6, 2011 at 5:14 PM

Can a female be a “bastard”? GF is a female, though not a lady.

p.s. note that G F could easily replace the F U.

Schadenfreude on March 6, 2011 at 5:01 PM

Who gives a sh!t…

ladyingray on March 6, 2011 at 5:16 PM

And then … on the other hand – you want us to believe that our government is DIShonest enough to violate Bradley Manning’s rights to get Julian ASSange.

It’s not about honesty. Assange is a target because of what he released. But you can’t convict him, he didn’t do anything illegal.

But they still want him.

That’s not a conspiracy, that’s reading the news.

So if I’m the government, how do you convict a guy who technically didn’t do anything wrong? Well, we’re seeing how they do that right now.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:16 PM

Just look at the whole HB Gary fiasco. Bank of America was troubled by wikileaks’ bank leak, so Obama’s administration referred them to HB Gary, who then proposed discrediting wikileaks, as well as journalists sympathetic to them.

They’re not playing by the rules, they don’t have to, they don’t want to. And if you think this is how inmates are usually treated in military prisons, you’re delusional.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:19 PM

All through basic training and advanced training – I never got a private room – never got a private shower – and never had a toilet that had a door on it.

HondaV65 on March 6, 2011 at 4:58 PM

They made me iron my socks (whine) and we had to sleep on our folded duffel bags to make them flat (more whining)!

kringeesmom on March 6, 2011 at 5:25 PM

If this little Southern end of a North-bound horse has the temerity after all he’s done, after all the damage he’s caused to call anything the detention personnel do “absurd”, then screw him. He doesn’t deserve to have an opinion.

Air Assault Wings slapped into your chest by a Company Commander half your age is an honor. What Manning has to endure is like babysitting and a badge of shame. The only shameful aspect of any of this is Manning himself and what he’s done to harm those he took an oath to defend.

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 5:25 PM

Personally, I’d take Manning’s skivvies and stuff them in his mouth. THEN he could sleep naked.

If Mannings lawyers are hoping to provoke sympathy for him, they’re even dumber than he is.

GarandFan on March 6, 2011 at 5:26 PM

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:16 PM

You must be a TRUTHER and a BIRTHER??

LOL – you are a conspiracy theorist. Like – you can read people’s minds. Yes! Yes! Obama – the guy who refused to prosecute violent Black Panthers has issued an order to make Bradley Manning’s life a living HELL until he spills the beans on Julian ASSange!

I’ve already told you – that we can’t get Roman Polanski extradited – and we’ll never get ASSange extradited either – and I’m sure Obama and his lawmakers – dim as they are – are still smart enough to realize that.

In any case – you seriously expect us to believe in a conspiracy here – where the “brilliant government” minds come up with the idea of forcing Manning to sleep naked as a means to being able to get to ASSange!

LOL – you are a piece of work. I’d love to see that meeting … “Hey guys … uhm, yeah – you guys know we all want ASSange and I think – if we just make Brad Manning sleep naked that will be enough to do it!”

Lunacy my man – LUNACY!!

HondaV65 on March 6, 2011 at 5:27 PM

And if you think this is how inmates are usually treated in military prisons, you’re delusional.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:19 PM

I don’t think this is how inmates are usually treated in military prisons. My son is ‘military police’, so I know inmates are treated worse, as they effing deserve. Hell, I know the security forces get ‘trained’ with much worse actions (how often have you, or Bradly Manning, been tasered or gassed?). Go f*ck yourself. Loser.

ladyingray on March 6, 2011 at 5:28 PM

The military says Bradley Manning is a danger to himself – why can’t we accept that at face value?

If you think about it – it makes perfect sense. He’s responsible for the deaths of a lot of people … which is something he didn’t think about too much before he took these actions – but he has a lot of time to think about now.

Were I him – I’d definitely kill myself. I couldn’t live with what I had done to good people.

So the guy’s suicidal – and that makes perfect sense in this world.

HondaV65 on March 6, 2011 at 5:14 PM

They may be protecting him from the wrath of other prisoners as well. My guess is that he would be treated the same way in civilian prision (confined to cell, suicide watch etc.) it’s called protective custody.

kringeesmom on March 6, 2011 at 5:29 PM

It’s not about honesty. Assange is a target because of what he released. But you can’t convict him, he didn’t do anything illegal.

But they still want him.

That’s not a conspiracy, that’s reading the news.

So if I’m the government, how do you convict a guy who technically didn’t do anything wrong? Well, we’re seeing how they do that right now.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:16 PM

You’re either thick as a watermelon, or you’re being deliberately obtuse.

Either way, STFU.

spinach.chin on March 6, 2011 at 5:29 PM

You must be a TRUTHER and a BIRTHER??

LOL – you are a conspiracy theorist.

um, no. Al qaeda crashed planes into the WTC and obama was born in hawaii. In addition, I don’t think the CIA killed jfk and UFOs are a product of science fiction.

I just read the news. Apparently more than some people.

American officials confirmed last month that the Justice Department was weighing a range of criminal charges against Assange and others as a result of the massive leaking of classified U.S. military reports from the war in Afghanistan, including potential violations of the Espionage Act by Bradley Manning, the Army intelligence analyst in Iraq accused of providing the documents to WikiLeaks.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:33 PM

And if you think this is how inmates are usually treated in military prisons, you’re delusional.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:19 PM

Dude – I was in the military for 24 years. I saw plenty of people, deemed a danger to themselves, have to undergo similar treatment INCLUDING sleeping naked. It’s not a big deal. They don’t have female guards on the guy – they’re males. Why is this a big deal.

I saw one guy have to eat his meals with his hands because he was deemed a danger and couldn’t be trusted with a fork.

This is pretty standard stuff here dude.

HondaV65 on March 6, 2011 at 5:33 PM

You really think the government isn’t plugging the source of the leak (manning) for dirt on assange? Wow. Just wow. Of course they are.

And if they don’t get what they want to hear – manning loses privileges. Like clothes.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:34 PM

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:33 PM

Well – you’re an idiot if you think that the US government’s great “plan” to get ASSange is to make Brad Manning sleep naked.

Please dude – that seriously weak mojo. Our government can come up with a lot better ways to do that than taking Manning’s skivvies from him.

Back of the line dude!

HondaV65 on March 6, 2011 at 5:35 PM

Par for the course for these torture experts.

Grow Fins on March 6, 2011 at 3:23 PM

I would imagine that with all your distain for mistreatment of prisoners that you would once, at least once decry the barbarism done to our soldiers and allies in this war. Answer me this, how many captives have we been able to retrieve?

Do you want to talk about the beheadings? Do you want to talk about the two Afghanis soldiers my unit was personally responsible for recovering that were found dead with their eyes gouged out? When you find a single case of malicious butchery that was not dealt with full impact of the law by our forces, then come cry me a river for our enemies.

You do not deserve the sacrifices made for you.

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 5:37 PM

And if they don’t get what they want to hear – manning loses privileges. Like clothes.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:34 PM

Why do you hate our military? Obviously you do – because you refuse to take them at their word and choose, instead – to take the conspiracy theories of the lawyers of a traitor as the gospel.

Why do you hate the military?

HondaV65 on March 6, 2011 at 5:37 PM

So if I’m the government, how do you convict a guy who technically didn’t do anything wrong? Well, we’re seeing how they do that right now.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:16 PM

The definition of “aiding the enemy” is outlined in the UCMJ. Maybe you’d better educate yourself by reading the pertinent section.

gryphon202 on March 6, 2011 at 5:38 PM

Were I him – I’d definitely kill myself. I couldn’t live with what I had done to good people.

So the guy’s suicidal – and that makes perfect sense in this world.

HondaV65 on March 6, 2011 at 5:14 PM

Am I bad for agreeing with every word you typed here?

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 5:39 PM

We all agree the US government wants to and is planning to charge Julian, right? Okay.

And we all agree it would be criminal negligence to not question Manning about his ties to wikileaks, right? Okay.

So when Manning starts losing basic human neccessities that normal prisoners are allowed to have – like clothes, the ability to exercise, normal uninterrupted sleep – what other conclusion do you come to?

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:39 PM

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 5:39 PM

Nope.

Triple, nobody’s buying your Leftist garbage. Pedal it at HuffPo.

kingsjester on March 6, 2011 at 5:40 PM

You really think the government isn’t plugging the source of the leak (manning) for dirt on assange? Wow. Just wow. Of course they are.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:34 PM

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT THE US DOESN’T WANT ASSANGE, YOU UTTER MORON.

spinach.chin on March 6, 2011 at 5:40 PM

The definition of “aiding the enemy” is outlined in the UCMJ. Maybe you’d better educate yourself by reading the pertinent section.

You might want to look up the definition of convicted.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:41 PM

I agree with Mr. Mataconis. Bradley Manning should receive the just punishment for his crimes if convicted, but it is disgusting to read about this obvious attempt to drive an American soldier who has not been convicted of any crime to insanity.

Although it’s no less than I would expect from Obama as Commander in Chief – he doesn’t respect the rule of law for civilians, so why would he treat the military any differently?

Inkblots on March 6, 2011 at 5:42 PM

So when Manning starts losing basic human neccessities that normal prisoners are allowed to have – like clothes, the ability to exercise, normal uninterrupted sleep – what other conclusion do you come to?

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:39 PM

That the military determined he was a threat to himself and deprived him of basic material to which he would do harm to himself.

Why, what fairy tale are you trying to conjure up?

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 5:42 PM

That the military determined he was a threat to himself and deprived him of basic material to which he would do harm to himself.

What harm can he do to himself by sleeping, or pushups?

Just wondering

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:44 PM

What harm can he do to himself by sleeping, or pushups?

Just wondering

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:44 PM

Just wondering myself what your source is that he’s being denied sleep or the ability to do simple calisthenics.

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 5:48 PM

So when Manning starts losing basic human neccessities that normal prisoners are allowed to have – like clothes, the ability to exercise, normal uninterrupted sleep – what other conclusion do you come to?

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:39 PM

A more logical hypothesis is that Manning is suicidal because the full consequences of his traitorous actions have finally come to his realization.

A lot of innocent people were killed because of him – and it’s totally logical that he’s a threat to his own life.

My hypothesis may not be correct – but it’s more logical than yours – which involves a conspiracy theory at high levels.

And … at the very least – my hypothesis is every bit as valid and provable as yours is.

Does this end the argument?

HondaV65 on March 6, 2011 at 5:49 PM

What harm can he do to himself by sleeping, or pushups?

Just wondering

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:44 PM

He probably sleeps in Transformers underwear, and the guards simply objected.

spinach.chin on March 6, 2011 at 5:49 PM

nancy-boy Manning

Ah, the impartial voice of reason.
Grow Fins on March 6, 2011 at 5:00 PM

Par for the course for these torture experts.
Grow Fins on March 6, 2011 at 3:23 PM

Akzed on March 6, 2011 at 5:50 PM

What harm can he do to himself by sleeping, or pushups?

Just wondering

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:44 PM

So when you lose an argument … you make up facts? I see no evidence anywhere where he’s being denied the right to sleep. And he is allowed to exercise until he stops – at which time his exercise period is ended.

HondaV65 on March 6, 2011 at 5:51 PM

what other conclusion do you come to?

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:39 PM

That he is incarcerated, awaiting trial, just like a civilian prisoner being held on no bail. Should they release him into the general population (of convicted Marines) and see what happens to him? Should they let him hang himself with his own undies? Manning is the one that opened his big mouth and made the suicide threat. As for sleep deprivation, I’ll bet it is hard to sleep in any prison.

kringeesmom on March 6, 2011 at 5:53 PM

Obviously, the real answer is that the guards just think he’s cute and want to get a good look at his crank.

spinach.chin on March 6, 2011 at 5:53 PM

Without consulting any Brig mental health provider, Chief Warrant Officer Denise Barnes used PFC’s Manning’s sarcastic quip as justification to increase the restrictions imposed upon him under the guise of being concerned that PFC Manning was a suicide risk.

I have never been more proud of the Warrant Officer Corps. Solider on, Ms. Barnes!

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 5:53 PM

hawkdriver, feel free to type in manning on google news or something. Not my job to read the paper for you.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:53 PM

So when you lose an argument … you make up facts? I see no evidence anywhere where he’s being denied the right to sleep.

Legal defense costs are estimated at approximately 115,000 USD. Manning has been held in isolation in Quantico, Virginia for 279 days, under conditions reported by his attorney and at least one visitor to be seriously damaging to his mental health, including being woken up regularly, no access to blankets, constant exposure to bright lights, and other measures supposedly taken to protect him from suicide.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:56 PM

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:53 PM

Well, considering this man molested a male child when he was in basic, I just don’t feel like Googling anything about him.

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 5:56 PM

I mean all day on hot air it’s story after story about how the government is screwing up.

But on bradley manning, apparently they can do no wrong.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:58 PM

This Manning affair all seems a bit queer to me.

Really Right on March 6, 2011 at 6:00 PM

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:56 PM

So your offer of proof is that his LAWYER says so in a press release designed to manufacture public sympathy for him…

I’M CONVINCED

spinach.chin on March 6, 2011 at 6:01 PM

This Manning affair all seems a bit queer to me.

Really Right on March 6, 2011 at 6:00 PM

A lot of the defense of him seems the same to me. Why?

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 6:02 PM

I can’t believe anyone is bothering with “triple.” Manning is legitimately charged with multiple felony counts for the unauthorized release of classified documents. That alone is a federal felony, which he acknowledged he could be charged with when he signed his security oath.

This past week the charge of releasing the documents with the intent to aid and abet the enemy (treason) was added.

The military has known for some time that there’s no evidence Manning had direct contact with Assange. The idea that Manning is being tortured for information about Assange, while he himself “did nothing wrong,” is demented.

J.E. Dyer on March 6, 2011 at 6:02 PM

But on bradley manning, apparently they can do no wrong.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:58 PM

Well, he did that little boy wrong.

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 6:03 PM

Who else would it possibly come from?

Manning is in jail and can’t speak for himself.

Don’t expect the military to speak up on how they treat prisoners.

The media sure as hell isn’t getting access.

Which source would you be satisfied with?

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:04 PM

Which source would you be satisfied with?

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:04 PM

Well, actually, “any” source that makes that claim for a start. We can go from there.

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 6:05 PM

A friend of mine was arrested here in TX. Collin Co. to be exact because he told other inmates and guards he was suicidal he was moved from general population to medical. He was only allowed to wear a heavy quilted garment and allowed no blanket pillow etc… He was treated and released back to genpop. Because of privacy laws we can’t know why Manning has been in protective custody. But I would guess that because of the crime be is charged with putting him in genpop would be dangerous for him. And since the boy seems like such a smarta** he is creating more problems. I would also guess that he’s getting what he wants ATTENTION!! These thing happen in jails and prisons regularly. I would also venture a guess that worse happens to civilians in custody. So, I will shed no tears for poor abused Manning. As they say “don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time”

hboulware on March 6, 2011 at 6:05 PM

Manning is legitimately charged with

I’m not ignorant of the charges. I know exactly what he’s charged with. He deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison.

But here in america, we pride ourselves on better prison conditions than say, iran.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:06 PM

Which source would you be satisfied with?

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:04 PM

NO ONE cares except weeping v@ginas such as yourself.

spinach.chin on March 6, 2011 at 6:06 PM

He is a traitor. As such, he should be dead by now.

long_cat on March 6, 2011 at 6:07 PM

But here in america, we pride ourselves on better prison conditions than say, iran.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:06 PM

You’re equating sleeping naked with spending time in a Middle Eastern prison…

spinach.chin on March 6, 2011 at 6:07 PM

No, a middle eastern prison would be a little better.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:08 PM

No, a middle eastern prison would be a little better.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:08 PM

Sure!

So…..

What source is there that he’s been denied sleep and the ability to conduct simple calisthenics?

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 6:10 PM

What source is there that he’s been denied sleep and the ability to conduct simple calisthenics?

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 6:10 PM

His lawyer…

spinach.chin on March 6, 2011 at 6:12 PM

Again, if you spent 5 seconds on google news, you’d see.. at this point, 1,500+ articles detailing the prison conditions.

This was a nice quip from the guardian’s piece.

“Government whistleblowers are part of a healthy democracy and must be protected from reprisal”

-Barack Obama, 2008

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:14 PM

And if you think this is how inmates are usually treated in military prisons, you’re delusional.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:19 PM

I don’t know about military prisons but I do know a lot about civilian prisons. And you’re the one who is delusional, pal.

Blake on March 6, 2011 at 6:15 PM

His lawyer…

spinach.chin on March 6, 2011 at 6:12 PM

Read it. His lawyer isn’t even making the claims triple is.

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 6:16 PM

triple, do you think of Manning as simply a whistleblower?

spinach.chin on March 6, 2011 at 6:16 PM

My cousin (who we later found out was bipolar) was in a military prison for a substantial period of time. I know more than you think.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:16 PM

Again, if you spent 5 seconds on google news, you’d see.. at this point, 1,500+ articles detailing the prison conditions.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:14 PM

But not one specific to the charges you invented. So many? Link one for me that says he is denied sleep and simple calisthenics.

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 6:18 PM

what other conclusion do you come to?

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:39 PM

Herman Goring sawed his throat open with the zipper from his prisoner’s coat.

Voyager on March 6, 2011 at 6:19 PM

My cousin (who we later found out was bipolar) was in a military prison for a substantial period of time. I know more than you think.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:16 PM

I still know more than you. Link?

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 6:20 PM

Again, if you spent 5 seconds on google news, you’d see.. at this point, 1,500+ articles detailing the prison conditions.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:14 PM

I don’t have time to read 1500+ articles, but the few I’ve skimmed through seem to be based on what was said by his lawyer.

Anything else?

At least for Abu Ghraib we had pics for proof…

spinach.chin on March 6, 2011 at 6:20 PM

But not one specific to the charges you invented. So many? Link one for me that says he is denied sleep and simple calisthenics.

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 6:18 PM

I believe they are not allowed to lay on their bed during the day which the twerp morfed into being denied sleep.

Blake on March 6, 2011 at 6:21 PM

triple, do you think of Manning as simply a whistleblower?

I think that’s what he thought of himself as. This isn’t a kid who shouted allah akbar and did some intel work for al qaeda. He’s a self-important personality who believed he had the capacity to make the call on what should and shouldn’t be classified, under his own moral belief system. He was wrong, and he will pay.

But a lot of other prisoners in military prisoners also did some bad things.. got convicted.. and yet they aren’t subject to this treatment. Can anyone tell me why?

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:21 PM

Since when is removing an object (clothes) that one can use to commit suicide (by hanging) at night when there are less people around to keep an eye on him, leaving him to sleep naked under blankets (which I do every night) now considered torture?

Blake on March 6, 2011 at 6:23 PM

I believe they are not allowed to lay on their bed during the day which the twerp morfed into being denied sleep.

Blake on March 6, 2011 at 6:21 PM

Could be. I’ll never know though because triple doesn’t seem to even want to offer a response like you and spinach.chin have.

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 6:25 PM

Triple, you are delusional. I cannot speak to military prison but I am knowledgable about civilian prison. Manning sleeping naked and being restricted because of his own smart mouth and behavior is NOT unusual. Sorry but if you don’t play by the rules you face the consequences. Trust me even if you are in a civilian jail for nonpayment of parking tickets and get smart mouthy and cause trouble you will be treated accordingly. Manning is creating and causing his own problems. Regardless of his crime. He made his own bed ( so to speak) now he can lie in it. If he does not like the way he is being treated he’ll change. I think most of this is to create sympathy and outrage against the military and nothing more. Frankly, it’s ridiculous!

hboulware on March 6, 2011 at 6:25 PM

But a lot of other prisoners in military prisoners also did some bad things.. got convicted.. and yet they aren’t subject to this treatment.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:21 PM

How can you know that this is true?

There have been countless soldiers sent to prison. Can you confidently say that NONE have been subjected to the same (or worse) than Manning?

spinach.chin on March 6, 2011 at 6:26 PM

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 6:25 PM

I’m not allowed to lay down during the day either. And I’m not even in prison. The horror!

Blake on March 6, 2011 at 6:27 PM

But a lot of other prisoners in military prisoners also did some bad things.. got convicted.. and yet they aren’t subject to this treatment. Can anyone tell me why?

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:21 PM

You really are, one, sugar-coating what this man did. And two, really haven’t a faint clue as to what you’re talking about as far as treatment of military prisoners.

And if you ask me, I think you’ve made up half the points you’ve posted here.

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 6:27 PM

Sorry I mean to say sympathy for Manning and outrage against the military.

hboulware on March 6, 2011 at 6:29 PM

I’m not allowed to lay down during the day either. And I’m not even in prison. The horror!

Blake on March 6, 2011 at 6:27 PM

Yeah, and good soldiers that Manning wouldn’t be fit to clean the boots of go for weeks in the open desert without even a roof over their head.

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 6:31 PM

They have all sorts of behavior modification programs in prison for people who act out. I wouldn’t even put removing clothes at night in that category because he is not being punished. They are trying to ensure his safety.

Sleeping naked is not a punishment. And I don’t give a damn that he gets cold. With the changing weather, sometimes, I get cold at night. I roll over and go to back to sleep.

Boy, there are a lot of pussies on HA…

Blake on March 6, 2011 at 6:32 PM

I realize that for some it would be a lovely thing if prisoners could skip through fields of tulips holding hands and singing kumbaya. In the reality based community this Does.Not.Happen.

hboulware on March 6, 2011 at 6:32 PM

Nothing triple? Not one defense of your assertions?

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 6:38 PM

Conditions in Middle Eastern prisons:

Iran

Syria

Yemen

Egypt

Jordan

J.E. Dyer on March 6, 2011 at 6:40 PM

Triple, you are delusional.

I like how anyone who disagrees with you is labeled “delusional”.

A just society is measured by how it treats its enemies.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:40 PM

You might want to look up the definition of convicted.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 5:41 PM

Once again, applying civilian standards to a military proceeding. Idiot.

gryphon202 on March 6, 2011 at 6:42 PM

A just society is measured by how it treats its enemies.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:40 PM

So are you saying that we shouldn’t be trying to prevent Bradley Manning from killing himself?

gryphon202 on March 6, 2011 at 6:43 PM

So why even have a trial in military proceedings?

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:43 PM

I mean, if convictions don’t matter.

If convictions don’t matter in the military – um – why are they charging manning at all?

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:44 PM

Triple, you are delusional.

Well, he’s at least cowardly.

I like how anyone who disagrees with you is labeled “delusional”.

I like how you just ignore anyone that effectively dissagrees with you.

A just society is measured by how it treats its enemies.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:40 PM

We deal with our enemies swiftly and violently in such a manner as to make their desire to wage war against us unthinkable. I imagine what you meant to say was that a just society is judged on how they treat their prisoners.

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 6:45 PM

So are you saying that we shouldn’t be trying to prevent Bradley Manning from killing himself?

Not one psychiatrist or therapist manning has seen has labeled him a suicide risk. The brig commander has unilaterally put him on suicide watch, without any sort of psychiatric justification.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:45 PM

Not one psychiatrist or therapist manning has seen has labeled him a suicide risk. The brig commander has unilaterally put him on suicide watch, without any sort of psychiatric justification.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:45 PM

Right, and if Ms Barnes had ignored Mannings sarcastic references to suicide, ignored them and then he did manage to kill himself, you’d be calling her incompetent and deserving of the stockade herself.

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 6:49 PM

I didn’t say you were delusional because you disagree with me. I said that because of your inane, ridiculous statements. You do not seem to want to look at the situation realistically. Manning is responsible for his own behavior. If he wants his undies back then he should behave himself. If my son misbehaves at school and I restrict him to his room is that torture? He would certainly say so. Manning knows exactly what he is doing. Unfortunatly, people like you are all to willing to play his pathetic game.

hboulware on March 6, 2011 at 6:52 PM

If Ms Barnes wanted to cover her ass, perhaps she should have sent Manning to a therapist, who is actually capable of making that diagnosis.

Oh, but she’s too busy playing armchair therapist. I see.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:53 PM

If my son misbehaves at school and I restrict him to his room is that torture?

I believe if you made your son stay in his room for 23 hours a day, sleep naked at night, and only permitted him exercise for one hour a day – you would be the one going to jail.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:54 PM

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:54 PM

Why all this concern for a traitor who deserves the firing squad?

OmahaConservative on March 6, 2011 at 6:57 PM

Not one psychiatrist or therapist manning has seen has labeled him a suicide risk. The brig commander has unilaterally put him on suicide watch, without any sort of psychiatric justification.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:45 PM

So, what? You don’t need permission from a psych to put someone on suicide watch.

Blake on March 6, 2011 at 6:59 PM

Well, I guess when you have someone to the point where they can’t answer even one of your comments in rebuttal, they are thoroughly shown to be without merited debate.

You invented the claim that he was denied sleep and PT, triple. You exaggerate the harm done to him by this Marine WO and diminish his alleged crimes almost to the point of sounding like you feel sorry for him.

triple, what I think is you admire Manning. I think the description above you gave about him thinking he was seeing himself as a whistleblower actually gives more insight to what your mentality is. As if giving away secret documents that have harmed our servicemen and women and allies is more palatable if the traitor thinks that they were whistle blowing. What in God’s good name makes Americas hate America so much?

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 6:59 PM

Hey, Fins, you freakin’ rock star…

The U.N. Convention Against Torture states that torture is any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions.

Unless I’m completely mistaken, that innocent little Manning boy was duly arrested in May of last year for transferring classified data to somebody who did naughty things with it, then was charged, let’s see, just this month (in case you forgot; that weed sure messes with memory, doesn’t it, Fins?) on 22 additional counts, including aiding and abetting the enemy during wartime. Surely you haven’t neglected the fact that we’re still at war, you know, the one that Booosh started for oil and world domination by CheneyHaliburton. No matter, treason’s still a capital offense, death penalty type offense, yeah? You guys forgot to change that part of the Constitution that last time you had a majority in both Houses, so it still flies, eh?
Still, in less an act of mercy, and more the realization that if the deserved punishment were carried out we would have to listen to you and your fellow travelers screech, howl, and bang on your cages while flinging bodily excretions at us, military prosecutors waived the whole firing squad bit. (See, another reason for gun control, the military uses them to kill people! Better post that one on Kos, quick, dude!) Now, while it would be nice if we could just accept the little boy’s word that he’d stay home until his trial (maybe even seal it with a pinky promise), Rush and Glen and Sean and Sarah insist that he be held in conditions that even Torquemada would find abhorrent. True, he’s a good liberal, and we all know we can trust liberals to stick to their word (unless, of course, it’s a promise made to a conservative, or an ally, or a minority, or a non-union worker…). Still, the justice system in general (and the military in particular) is rethuglican-fascist-unreasonable when it comes to letting prisoners wander around out of their sight. It’s Bush’s fault, but what can you do, right? Plus, the federal prison system, as well as the military system, is downright Neanderthal when it comes to allowing their guests the freedom to choose self-abortion by Under-roos. So, as cruel as it may be to force the young lad to sleep in his skin in the hope that he won’t cheat the unwashed, unenlightened, illiberal masses out of their show trial and subsequent railroading,to be displayed like a circus act pour l’encourage les autres, in order to ensure that the travesty of the law that is AmeriKKKa is carried out, certain pie crusts must be broken in the name Big Oil, Wall Street, and Scott “Darth” Walker. (That was a really long sentence. Go ahead and take a couple of hours to puzzle it out)
Look, Fins, show some dignity in your argument beyond “You’re mean! You’re hurt feelings! I don’t like you, meanies!” It would be nice if you wouldn’t post just salvia-and-jimson weed induced ravings, but actually demonstrated a modicum of scholarship on occasion. Still have to give you an “F”, dude.

creekspecter on March 6, 2011 at 7:00 PM

It’s wildly Orwellian.

Imagine you go to jail. You’re not suicidal.

But the prison puts you under suicide watch.

You’re not allowed to sleep well, you’re alone, you can’t do anything, you’re naked, you can’t talk, when you do sleep it’s on a mattress with a built in pillow and a heavy rubbery blanket.

..and this goes on for the better part of a year.

If I wasn’t suicidal – I sure as hell am now.

It’s beautiful how that works out, isn’t it?

triple on March 6, 2011 at 7:00 PM

I would like to know HOW you know that Manning has received a psych eval saying he is not suicidal. What you know is what his supporters say. Seems the military is respecting his privacy. But, if they didn’t you’d be wailing about how wrong it is to defend their treatment by forsaking that privacy. All of this is nothing more than military bashing on behalf of the lefts new hero.

hboulware on March 6, 2011 at 7:01 PM

Correction: He’s not on suicide watch. They merely removed any instruments, i.e, clothes that he could use to hurt himself.

Blake on March 6, 2011 at 7:02 PM

If Ms Barnes wanted to cover her ass, perhaps she should have sent Manning to a therapist, who is actually capable of making that diagnosis.

Oh, but she’s too busy playing armchair therapist. I see.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 6:53 PM

As if you have any room to judge what decisions Chief Barnes made. What do you do for a living? What’s the hardest decision you have to make through a work day? Whether the fry-cooker is set too high?

hawkdriver on March 6, 2011 at 7:02 PM

What in God’s good name makes Americas hate America so much?

Don’t you dare question my patriotism.

If you love america so much you’ll hold it to a higher standard.

triple on March 6, 2011 at 7:03 PM

It’s wildly Orwellian.

Imagine you go to jail. You’re not suicidal.

But the prison puts you under suicide watch.

You’re not allowed to sleep well, you’re alone, you can’t do anything, you’re naked, you can’t talk, when you do sleep it’s on a mattress with a built in pillow and a heavy rubbery blanket.

..and this goes on for the better part of a year.

If I wasn’t suicidal – I sure as hell am now.

It’s beautiful how that works out, isn’t it?

triple on March 6, 2011 at 7:00 PM

You’re in prison and you make comments about suicide. So, they take away your clothes at night so you don’t strangle yourself with them. Oh, the horror! How Orwellian!

You’re not delusional; You’re a dumbass.

Blake on March 6, 2011 at 7:03 PM

Trips, you’re acting like they’re hooking car batteries up to his nutsack, FFS.

OMG, he has a FIRM MATTRESS!!

spinach.chin on March 6, 2011 at 7:04 PM

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