ABC: Long-term unemployed “the new Irish”

posted at 10:58 am on March 4, 2011 by Ed Morrissey

Earlier today, I noted that the level of civilian participation in the workforce has reached a generational low of 64.2% the last two months, the lowest seen since March 1984.  ABC’s look at the job market suggests that it will be a long while before that rate rises significantly.  Hearkening back to an era of bigotry, Alan Farnham says the long-term unemployed have become “the new Irish“:

In the bad old days of the 1800s, when it was legal for employers to discriminate against anyone they pleased, job postings used to say things like: “No Irish Need Apply.” Now the unemployed, it seems, have become the new Irish: In advertisement after advertisement, employers come right out and tell them they’re not wanted.

Right now CareerBuilder, one of the biggest job sites on the web, has a posting for an entry-level engineer. The candidate, it says, will perform structural analysis of telecommunications cell towers. A civil engineering degree is required, an undergrad GPA of at least 3.4 as is knowledge of AutoCAD. Some travel is required.

Oh, and there’s one other thing: “No layoff candidates.” …

Look anywhere that jobs are posted and you’ll see more examples. This discrimination isn’t subtle. It’s not covert. It’s right out in the open, stated in the listings: A phone manufacturer looking to fill a marketing job stipulates “No unemployed candidates will be considered at all.” An electronics firm looking for an engineer says it will “Not consider/review anyone NOT currently employed regardless of the reason.” A Craigslist posting for an assistant restaurant manager in New Jersey says all applicants “Must be currently employed.”

So prevalent is this new form of discrimination that the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission in February held hearings on it. The EEOC press release announcing them bore the catchy title “Out of Work? Out of Luck.”

The analogy is far from perfect, mainly because Farnham confuses discrimination based on ethnicity and the normal discernment of employers based on experience and job history.  As a hiring manager for 15 years, I can attest that under normal conditions, the long-term unemployed are higher risks for problems in employment and for long-term performance.  That is one of many factors that came into play when looking for new hires, but at both companies for which I ran call centers, it was considered an important factor.  When exceptions were made, we usually had trouble with performance as a result.

That period of time differs from the current work environment in a couple of key ways that impact on this trend.  During my years as a hiring manager, unemployment never got above 7.8%, and most of that period stayed in the 5% range.  Under those conditions, finding stable employment histories for entry-level applicants was difficult, and we had to take more risks to keep staffing at appropriate levels.  Indeed, we also had to significantly raise entry-level pay several times over the last ten years in which I worked in that field just to get applicants in the door.

That meant that applicants with spotty work histories were more suspect, since employment was easily found in that period.  However, it also means that employers now have a much wider applicant base and can afford to be more selective.  With so many new workers entering into the economy and not enough jobs to go around, it has become a buyer’s market, which means that employers don’t need to take risks in staffing decisions.  While employment track records may be less indicative over the last three years of high unemployment, it’s still an issue that raises red flags about commitment and performance.

Eventually, the economy will recover enough to drive the available labor base down to a level where employers will have to take risks again, and the long-term unemployed will find opportunities at that point.  Fortunately for them, they can stop being risks in that area far easier than the Irish could stop being Irish, blacks could stop being black, or women could stop being women.


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Eventually, the economy will recover enough to

It will be false. It will prelude the eventual collapse, and things will just be awful.

blatantblue on March 4, 2011 at 11:01 AM

‘No Irish Need Apply’ is a myth

http://is.gd/S5ZQgd

ConservativeTalkRadio on March 4, 2011 at 11:06 AM

If you are unemployed, get a job – any job (even flipping burgers), to demonstrate your willingness to work. Be a volunteer for a charity. Do something other than nothing while looking for work.

I would rather hire a guy who worked a job beneath him than one who wasn’t working at all during the recession. I would rather hire an engineer who dug ditches than an engineer who stayed at home and collected pogie.

Johnny 100 Pesos on March 4, 2011 at 11:08 AM

“Must be currently employed.”

I’ve been seeing that a lot. What I’ve also been noticing, is that if you’re unemployed, white, and above “a certain age” – you might as well pick out the cardboard box you’re going to be living in, you’re unemployable.

We need to not just kick out all the illegals, but impose a 10-15 year moratorium on ALL immigration, as well as end H1B and other work visas.

Rebar on March 4, 2011 at 11:09 AM

It’s a shame that people who were laid off through no fault of their own are being denied jobs simply because they’ve been unable to find a job.

Food for thought. If there had been no extention of unemployment benefits, might some of these workers have started looking for work sooner, and thus not face the current problem?

hawksruleva on March 4, 2011 at 11:09 AM

So, stay-at-home-mom is glorifed as “the most important JOB in the world,” and every May we get the newest estimate of what her services are worth in the free market (~$140,000), but, hey, that was just lip service…don’t bother applying to re-enter the workforce.

Christien on March 4, 2011 at 11:10 AM

There’s a Blazing Saddles line to fit this, but I’m not about to test the ban hammer by using a certain word.

Bishop on March 4, 2011 at 11:12 AM

Food for thought. If there had been no extention of unemployment benefits, might some of these workers have started looking for work sooner, and thus not face the current problem?

hawksruleva on March 4, 2011 at 11:09 AM

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say “YES”. We’ve had people come in and ask if we’re hiring “in 2 months when my benefits run out”….that application gets chucked in the trash can quick, let me tell you. You want a job? Start now. You want to be on the government dole? Get out of my office.

search4truth on March 4, 2011 at 11:13 AM

It will be false. It will prelude the eventual collapse, and things will just be awful.

blatantblue on March 4, 2011 at 11:01 AM

Don’t deprive the man of hope, even if it’s false hope. Have you noticed how AP’s mood is doom and gloom recently? I think he’s starting to figure it out.

P.S. Silver biotches!

DFCtomm on March 4, 2011 at 11:14 AM

P.S. Silver biotches!

DFCtomm on March 4, 2011 at 11:14 AM

Don’t you love how precious metal investment companies offer “Free silver dollars” or some sort of free coins, LOL

blatantblue on March 4, 2011 at 11:15 AM

Food for thought. If there had been no extention of unemployment benefits, might some of these workers have started looking for work sooner, and thus not face the current problem?

hawksruleva on March 4, 2011 at 11:09 AM

Not if there simply was no work. Businesses are cutting back, not hiring, due to the obvious reasons. Most unemployed, despite the propaganda, have been looking for jobs all along.

Rebar on March 4, 2011 at 11:15 AM

Nepotists have zero problem hiring their friends and family who are not currently employed and who lack the education, knowledge, skills, and awareness for the job. It’s not what you know, it’s who you know.

Christien on March 4, 2011 at 11:16 AM

‘No Irish Need Apply’ is a myth

http://is.gd/S5ZQgd

ConservativeTalkRadio on March 4, 2011 at 11:06 AM

No, it isn’t. The No Nothings and Nativists were vehemently anti Irish (and anti Catholic) and that sentiment definitely permeated into the the market.

Cr4sh Dummy on March 4, 2011 at 11:16 AM

Thanks to the government, we job applicants must now answer even more pages of questions on our race, disabilities, military service, prison record (that’s a good thing), welfare status when we apply for a job.

Tax Credits for Losers.

So the answer is, go on welfare, commit a crime and then you can get a job when you are released from jail. Typing not required.

PattyJ on March 4, 2011 at 11:17 AM

I don’t understand the logic of an employer preferring a candidate who is jumping jobs – or is straight out of college – over someone who was laid off. Seems like lazy HR practice to me. The folks who will reap the benefits are those (like my husband) who take the time to evaluate all candidates on their merits without relying on this misguided litmus test.

Y-not on March 4, 2011 at 11:19 AM

Has HotAir or a HA poster ever helped an unemployed HA poster find work? Just curious.

Christien on March 4, 2011 at 11:19 AM

Bishop on March 4, 2011 at 11:12 AM

If it’s about the new Sheriff coming up the road, don’t even think about it.

kingsjester on March 4, 2011 at 11:19 AM

While employment track records may be less indicative over the last three years of high unemployment, it’s still an issue that raises red flags about commitment and performance.

This is insane. If people are laid off on the basis of seniority and not merit it has nothing to do with “performance”. Indeed, it may often be just the opposite. Are we to return to the old days where people stayed with the same company until they retired with a gold watch because changing jobs demonstrates a lack of “commitment”?

Buy Danish on March 4, 2011 at 11:19 AM

I’m pleased to see that companies want to hire people who are willing to leave their current job for a better offer rather than people who would be loyal to their company till the end of their employment.

James on March 4, 2011 at 11:20 AM

Come on now. Everybody knows that only women and “people of color” have EVER been discriminated against in America. It’s always been just one big, white, good ole boys club. Last time I checked, Irish people are white. So lets not hear any rubbish about the long term unemployed being the new “Micks” or how tough it is for all those “Paddys” to find another job. Shoot, to read this stuff, you’d think that the Irish were once depicted as ape like Neanderthals or something. I have no sympathy for those cabbage eating, corned beef brained British Isle expatriate crackers. Say, isn’t Morrissey an Irish name? So Ed, you are going for victim status to get some relatives jobs now, or is it to boost blog hits and pump up your already obscene income from blogging that your earn due solely to being a whitey and part of the WBC(White Boys Club)?(/sarc- for anyone not aware.)

JimP on March 4, 2011 at 11:20 AM

Don’t you love how precious metal investment companies offer “Free silver dollars” or some sort of free coins, LOL

blatantblue on March 4, 2011 at 11:15 AM

Right now silver is sexy. It’s got the hottest conspiracy theory, that may just turn out to be true. It’s on the road to becoming a currency again, and with the turmoil in the ME that’s good. The adds are just trying to cash in on that.

DFCtomm on March 4, 2011 at 11:21 AM

“Eventually, the economy will recover enough to drive the available labor base down to a level where employers will have to take risks again, and the long-term unemployed will find opportunities at that point.”

Eh… probably not.

The drop in unemployment so far is due to folks leaving the workforce (and no longer counting), not any great rise in hiring. New jobs still need to go up more than 100k/month to see any real drop in unemployment. And if you’re over 45 or so, can you really afford to wait a decade for the economy to get to 5% real unemployment again before you find work?

stevieray on March 4, 2011 at 11:23 AM

There is another risk factor at work. Employers may not want to hire a more experienced, but unemployed worker who may then leave at the first opportunity when the economy improves.

jerryofva on March 4, 2011 at 11:23 AM

You would think that any company stupid enough to do this, i.e. come out and say “no unemployed apply”, would be smart enough not to say anything and just chuck the resume in the trash the minute it arrives.

They are risking alienating customers, like me. I won’t do business with anyone who pulls this crap.

BierManVA on March 4, 2011 at 11:25 AM

Not if there simply was no work. Businesses are cutting back, not hiring, due to the obvious reasons. Most unemployed, despite the propaganda, have been looking for jobs all along.

Rebar on March 4, 2011 at 11:15 AM

And looking hard on a daily basis. I have applied to fast food joint of all stripe and have submitted resumes for entry level laboror jobs for the last 6 months. I will gladly take anything as I spent most of my life in construction and that end of the job sector isn’t coming back any time soon. I have even relocated to a larger market to increase my chances of landing an entry level job with no results.

darwin-t on March 4, 2011 at 11:25 AM

There’s a Blazing Saddles line to fit this, but I’m not about to test the ban hammer by using a certain word.

Bishop on March 4, 2011 at 11:12 AM

I’ll give it a try:

Olson Johnson: “Alright, we’ll give some land to the [n-words] and the [rhymes with blinks], but we don’t want the Irish.”

Everyone shakes their heads.

Sheriff Bart: “No deal.”

Olson Johnson: “Aw, prairie sh-t. (smiles) Everybody!”

Everyone cheers.

That’s the best I can do since we no longer live in the non-PC world of 1974.

Doughboy on March 4, 2011 at 11:26 AM

Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee has some openings in her office….

RBMN on March 4, 2011 at 11:26 AM

In the bad old days of the 1800s, when it was legal for employers to discriminate against anyone they pleased, job postings used to say things like: “No Irish Need Apply.”

I thought this was the Golden Age of free market capitalism you teabaggers wanted to take us back to. No govt interference, private collections of individuals (eg corporations) free to exercise their liberty….

Grow Fins on March 4, 2011 at 11:26 AM

DFCtomm on March 4, 2011 at 11:21 AM

Pop invested in a lot of silver. Crossing my fingers for a good result.

blatantblue on March 4, 2011 at 11:28 AM

I think this is very wrong and I think people are somewhat confused as to what is being described here. Or I am. It seems to me they want some one not just working but working in that field currently. “No layoff candidates” seems to be especially heinous. People aren’t laid off by choice or due to poor performance. Not currently employed regardless of reason? Really? You mean you won’t consider a candidate just for that even though the company they worked for may have folded a week before? That’s pretty harsh and stupid.

I don’t really get what your example shows either Ed. People don’t get laid off for poor performance. They get fired.

Rocks on March 4, 2011 at 11:30 AM

In the bad old days of the 1800s, when it was legal for employers to discriminate against anyone they pleased, job postings used to say things like: “No Irish Need Apply.”

I thought this was the Golden Age of free market capitalism you teabaggers wanted to take us back to. No govt interference, private collections of individuals (eg corporations) free to exercise their liberty….

Grow Fins on March 4, 2011 at 11:26 AM

The Irish were smart. They went into government work, later unionized government work, and now they’re everybody’s boss. The lesson being, be careful what you wish for.

RBMN on March 4, 2011 at 11:31 AM

I worked with a company for eight years before they let me go due to budget cuts. I would have stayed with them for my entire career had they not “rightsized” stupidly. I had the hardest time finding a job and applied to many companies. Once I finally did, after 9 months of searching, it was below my experience and salary level, and was in my field by not exactly what I knew best.

After a year I applied to one of the other companies that turned me down and now I have been hired by that company. The last year sucked hard, but I learned skills that I didn’t formerly possess and I was able to stay off unemployment.

I have no idea what made them change their minds, but being employed I’m sure had something to do with it.

ConDem on March 4, 2011 at 11:31 AM

BierManVA on March 4, 2011 at 11:25 AM

Agreed. Compile, publish, and maintain a list of these employers. Let THEM be ostracized and have to settle for less, since they are treating others how they want to be treated. Don’t give them a dime.

Christien on March 4, 2011 at 11:33 AM

It’s all about hiring people who want to work.

If you are unemployed, you still have options – be a volunteer, for instance. It looks much better on a resume than a blank spot.

Wouldn’t you rather hire an accountant who (without pay) helped out with the books at the local homeless shelter (or even swept the floors there) than hire an accountant who only calculated his unemployment benefits for the last six months?

I was in a similar situation in the early 90′s. I worked as a janitor, a landscaper and an entry-level file clerk until something in my field came along. I was eligible for unemployment benefits at that time, but had my resume been blank during that period, than I’m sure my next employer would have been less interested.

Johnny 100 Pesos on March 4, 2011 at 11:33 AM

In the bad old days of the 1800s, when it was legal for employers to discriminate against anyone they pleased

It wasn’t so bad that it was legal for them to “discriminate”, it was just bad that some chose to do so in stupid ways that had little to do with making money.

Count to 10 on March 4, 2011 at 11:34 AM

Grow Fins on March 4, 2011 at 11:26 AM

You liberals can’t distinguish between self interest and cheating can you. The free market system is a way to turn man’s inherent self interest to the good of humanity. Nobody has worked out how to do that with theft, fraud, or anything else that is currently illegal. Fraud does not prove that the free market system doesn’t work. It proves that the FBI was busy with 9/11 and the SEC was looking at porn.

DFCtomm on March 4, 2011 at 11:34 AM

Pop invested in a lot of silver. Crossing my fingers for a good result.

blatantblue on March 4, 2011 at 11:28 AM

Your Pop and I are having a good day.

DFCtomm on March 4, 2011 at 11:35 AM

If you are unemployed, get a job – any job (even flipping burgers), to demonstrate your willingness to work. Be a volunteer for a charity. Do something other than nothing while looking for work.

Johnny 100 Pesos on March 4, 2011 at 11:08 AM

+1

This is especially true for computer/IT workers. If you are let go or fired, you should be starting your own company the very next day. With the Internet, the barrier to entry is non-existent. Write new software, work on open source products either as a coder or a tester, etc etc.

If you’re currently in that position, or you think you might be soon, get this book:
Start Small, Stay Small: A Developer’s Guide to Launching a Startup
It’s a quick read. Basically, it explains how there are niches within niches that yearn for software focused on their needs and you can make money by writing small, focused products to meet those needs. And then it explains how you should build the software and market it.

strictnein on March 4, 2011 at 11:35 AM

Election 2012, anyone not currently employed as POTUS need not apply.

Christien on March 4, 2011 at 11:36 AM

private collections of individuals (eg corporations) free to exercise their liberty….
Grow Fins on March 4, 2011 at 11:26 AM

??

Buy Danish on March 4, 2011 at 11:36 AM

My company has this policy. Anyone who has been unemployed for 99+ weeks is very likely either lazy or has a bad attitude about what work they are willing to do for what pay.

cool breeze on March 4, 2011 at 11:37 AM

Whiskey was invented to stop the Irish from ruling the world, clearly the effects of alcohol skewed their recollection of history.

lol

Just kiddin my fellow Irishmen!

csdeven on March 4, 2011 at 11:38 AM

cool breeze on March 4, 2011 at 11:37 AM

+1000!!!

csdeven on March 4, 2011 at 11:38 AM

I’ll add that the book I referenced is not about making a west-coast style startup. It’s about creating a startup that will keep one or two people employed. Or starting a part time startup that will net you an extra $1k-$2k a month.

strictnein on March 4, 2011 at 11:39 AM

Pop invested in a lot of silver. Crossing my fingers for a good result.

blatantblue on March 4, 2011 at 11:28 AM

Silver is a solid investment…

visions on March 4, 2011 at 11:39 AM

Johnny 100 Pesos on March 4, 2011 at 11:33 AM

Do you count stay-at-home parents as self-employed or volunteers? If so, why? If not, why not?

Christien on March 4, 2011 at 11:39 AM

There’s a Blazing Saddles line to fit this, but I’m not about to test the ban hammer by using a certain word.

Bishop on March 4, 2011 at 11:12 AM

You can always post a link to the youtube clip.

PrettyD_Vicious on March 4, 2011 at 11:39 AM

I’m pleased to see that companies want to hire people who are willing to leave their current job for a better offer rather than people who would be loyal to their company till the end of their employment.

James on March 4, 2011 at 11:20 AM

LOL, yep – seems quite counterintuitive at some level.

Midas on March 4, 2011 at 11:41 AM

HR departments are filled with people who don’t understand the purpose of their department and have a narrow view of their jobs. This makes productive hiring recommendations virtually impossible.

The person who seems to bounce from job to job may well be the exact entrepreneurial spirit a company needs to grow. This is the person who is dissatisfied with the status quo. But HR directors, like most people, are so afraid of personal failure that they never take risks, especially the risk of hiring such a “loose cannon.” So they call in Mr. Safe, who has been at the same company for 10 years and says “Yes Sir” to every stupid idea his boss ever had, thereby adding another link to the positive feedback loop.

pugwriter on March 4, 2011 at 11:41 AM

I don’t really get what your example shows either Ed. People don’t get laid off for poor performance. They get fired.

Rocks on March 4, 2011 at 11:30 AM

During a downturn, Our company lays off the poor performers first.

PrettyD_Vicious on March 4, 2011 at 11:44 AM

In the bad old days of the 1800s, when it was legal for employers to discriminate against anyone they pleased, job postings used to say things like: “No Irish Need Apply.”

I thought this was the Golden Age of free market capitalism you teabaggers wanted to take us back to. No govt interference, private collections of individuals (eg corporations) free to exercise their liberty….

Grow Fins on March 4, 2011 at 11:26 AM

You’re right. We have only two choices. Barack Obama’s European Welfare State or Robber Barons, red in tooth and claw…

Though, if I really had to choose between the two, I would choose the latter.

Haiku Guy on March 4, 2011 at 11:45 AM

‘No Irish Need Apply’ is a myth

http://is.gd/S5ZQgd

ConservativeTalkRadio on March 4, 2011 at 11:06 AM

No, it isn’t. The No Nothings and Nativists were vehemently anti Irish (and anti Catholic) and that sentiment definitely permeated into the the market.

Cr4sh Dummy on March 4, 2011 at 11:16 AM

Well, it’s been greatly exaggerated.

As with most groups that suddenly appeared in large numbers, there was a degree of apprehension until assimilation (read Thomas Sowell’s book on the subject of ethnic groups).

I’ve heard over the years how hatred of Catholics was just under hatred of blacks in the South. This is historical nonsense for a number of reason… the coastal cities of FL, AL, MS and LA were heavily Catholic; there were Catholics in the Confederate upper echelons; Pius IX sent a letter to Jefferson Davis essentially recognizing the CSA; although JW Booth was not Catholic, some of his co-conspirators were; and in 1928, the first Catholic on a major party ticket (Al Smith) won only 8 states, holding 6 solid, deep South states (AR, LA, MS, AL, GA, SC, MA, RI).

Apparently, the deep South hated Republicans more than Catholics.

mankai on March 4, 2011 at 11:45 AM

I still like the proposal above of identifying companies putting out ads like these and hitting them in their bottom line. You don’t want us, but you want our patronage and money? Maybe YOU need to walk a mile in our shoes, and we’re happy to help you do that.

Christien on March 4, 2011 at 11:46 AM

The sad reality is that some companies used the economy to lay-off ‘dead wood’ as a means of getting around the copious amount of documentation one needs in order to fire someone without the risk of being sued. I’d guess it was the same companies that are now advertising the fact they won’t hire someone else’s perceived ‘dead wood’. I will say, I still have a lot of explaining to do over an 16 month employment gap 10 years ago. It seems standard practice in my experience.

ExPat on March 4, 2011 at 11:46 AM

In the bad old days of the 1800s, when it was legal for employers to discriminate against anyone they pleased, job postings used to say things like: “No Irish Need Apply.”

I thought this was the Golden Age of free market capitalism you teabaggers wanted to take us back to. No govt interference, private collections of individuals (eg corporations) free to exercise their liberty….

Grow Fins on March 4, 2011 at 11:26 AM

That explains why the Irish all starved to death and are an example of a group that never made it in America.

/

mankai on March 4, 2011 at 11:47 AM

I’m pleased to see that companies want to hire people who are willing to leave their current job for a better offer rather than people who would be loyal to their company till the end of their employment.

James on March 4, 2011 at 11:20 AM

It is not always about loyalty. Employee A works for a small company, has gained lots of experience. However, the company is not expanding and if he stays with that company, he will work the same job, forever. The only way to get a promotion is to seek new employment with a larger company.

PrettyD_Vicious on March 4, 2011 at 11:49 AM

I have worked very little in the 2+ years since my job was eliminated. But I did have a friend who was starting a new company, and he brought me on to set up some meetings that eventually led to some sales. He then let me list him as an employer, with a job title of “strategic consultant.” In the meantime I have picked up other consulting work which I had hoped would lead to a fulltime job, but it didn’t. I have also found through networking a few freelance writing jobs. So at least my resume doesn’t scream “unemployed.” But I have a feeling a lot of the corporate web filters treat “consulting” the same as “unemployed.” I have applied for dozens of jobs for which I know I am well qualified and not even gotten interviews.

If I could get an entry-level job somewhere, I would. But it’s a Catch-22 of sorts – nobody wants to hire someone who is grossly overqualified because they know that person will quit as soon as something better comes along.

rockmom on March 4, 2011 at 11:50 AM

@Johnny 100 Pesos

As someone with an MBA and a spotless career of advancement and continual success in senior management, I can firmly tell you that you are demonstrating behavior that confirms the opinions held by those on the left of us on the right…

With over 20 years in finance, burger joints and other entry level jobs will not hire someone like me.

Hell, I have had hiring managers tell me directly that without specific industry experience or a current job, no bueno.

That leaves one option. Self-employment.

So before you sit there casting aspersions, use your noodle and really try to understand the subject you comment on. Because when you don’t you look like a tool.

moseby on March 4, 2011 at 11:51 AM

Oh, and there’s one other thing: “No layoff candidates.” …

Got a solution for that:

When the dotcom bubble burst in the early 2000′s and I was laid off, I became an “independant consultant” while drawing unemployment. I might have made $50 the whole six months, but I could point out on my resume that I was working.

When employers see initiative and thinking out side the box, they are interested.

Since that six months, I have drawn unemployment a total of 3 weeks in the last 10 years. I have been blessed, I will admit, but for those out there, it does give them a step up

ConservativePartyNow on March 4, 2011 at 11:52 AM

PrettyD_Vicious on March 4, 2011 at 11:49 AM

So what you’re saying is that potential employees cannot be judged simply by their employment history?

Hmm….

James on March 4, 2011 at 11:53 AM

So before you sit there casting aspersions, use your noodle and really try to understand the subject you comment on. Because when you don’t you look like a tool.

moseby on March 4, 2011 at 11:51 AM

I decided to let him just stay in his tool box.

darwin-t on March 4, 2011 at 11:54 AM

This isn’t hard to understand. People who are willing to ride out 99 weeks of unemployment and THEN go look for work are not desirable employees. That’s just the downside of riding the gravy train.

It sucks for people who didn’t engage in milking their unemployment benefits, but there’s so many applications for almost every available job, employers are more likely to sort them harshly.

Murf76 on March 4, 2011 at 11:55 AM

pugwriter on March 4, 2011 at 11:41 AM

YES.
The private sector is also full of morons.
Their practices also oftentimes do not make sense.
And businesses canlook successful & still have stupid hiring practices.
y daughter works for a company that was just recently sold to a larger one.
There are inefficient & lazy workers there.
One of them is in a management position.
They want to fire him, but are looking at promoting him to induce even MORE failure so they have an ironclad case with which to fire him.
I wonder if that has anything to do with the litigious nature of our society? Hmmm….

Badger40 on March 4, 2011 at 11:57 AM

This isn’t hard to understand. People who are willing to ride out 99 weeks of unemployment and THEN go look for work are not desirable employees. That’s just the downside of riding the gravy train.

It sucks for people who didn’t engage in milking their unemployment benefits, but there’s so many applications for almost every available job, employers are more likely to sort them harshly.

Murf76 on March 4, 2011 at 11:55 AM

What about the longterm unemployed who didn’t suck on the teet? I’ve been grinding away at savings whie searching.

darwin-t on March 4, 2011 at 11:59 AM

That leaves one option. Self-employment.

moseby on March 4, 2011 at 11:51 AM

It also leaves other options. For example, notice an uptick in the past couple of years of fathers murdering their families and committing suicide? Then the neighbors invariably say how nice and decent the family was, but they had spent all their savings, exhausted unemployment and assistance from friends and family, gone off the deep end in debt, because nobody would hire them?

Christien on March 4, 2011 at 11:59 AM

Speaking of Irish in the 1800′s, last night we just watched Yankee Doodle Dandy with the kids. James Cagney played George M. Cohan, an Irish performer who was a Vaudeville and Broadway star back in the day. It was a GREAT movie and I highly recommend it. First, Cohan was a Democrat AND a patriot–apparently an extinct species these days. Second, it illuminates some of the Irish plight back then and shows how hard working they were during yesteryear.

ted c on March 4, 2011 at 11:59 AM

If I could get an entry-level job somewhere, I would. But it’s a Catch-22 of sorts – nobody wants to hire someone who is grossly overqualified because they know that person will quit as soon as something better comes along.

rockmom on March 4, 2011 at 11:50 AM

And that folks, is not discrimination. To say otherwise would imply any reason used to not hire someone is discrimination, which actually means “if someone applys for a job with your company, you must hire them”.

Are we ready for that?

BobMbx on March 4, 2011 at 11:59 AM

As someone who is Irish and unemployed for a stretch recently, this really hits home, heh.

But seriously, boo freaking hoo.

I saw this story pop up last fall, too. Employers should be free to hire the candidates that they think are best.

Life isn’t fair.

I’m making less than I was a few years ago, working nights and traded in my cubicle for a forklift. Boo freaking hoo.

reaganaut on March 4, 2011 at 12:00 PM

Christien on March 4, 2011 at 11:59 AM

All too true.

moseby on March 4, 2011 at 12:05 PM

You want my money, but won’t even consider me for a job? Boo freakin hoo, find another customer, because you lost this one for LIFE, and I will spread the word to everyone I know to stop employing you via their patronage, too. Life’s not fair.

Christien on March 4, 2011 at 12:12 PM

It also leaves other options. For example, notice an uptick in the past couple of years of fathers murdering their families and committing suicide? Then the neighbors invariably say how nice and decent the family was, but they had spent all their savings, exhausted unemployment and assistance from friends and family, gone off the deep end in debt, because nobody would hire them?

Christien on March 4, 2011 at 11:59 AM

That’s the murky intersection between society and business that conservatives don’t want to touch with a 10 ft. pole. We didn’t use to have a problem with this issue.

DFCtomm on March 4, 2011 at 12:13 PM

DFCtomm on March 4, 2011 at 12:13 PM

Agreed. What concerns me more is the collective hardening of our hearts as a people towards our fellow countrymen who find themselves spiraling into the abyss. I see ads like these as an institutionalized symptom of that larger problem.

Jesus didn’t offer loaves and fishes only to those who had not missed a meal in the past.

Christien on March 4, 2011 at 12:22 PM

Businesses aren’t charities.

cool breeze on March 4, 2011 at 12:29 PM

The economy is still an absolute mess, and when you have way too many overqualified people, it makes it even worse.

It makes me physically sick to think of all that stimulus money, if it had been given to companies and entrepreneurs to hire people that they needed, what it could have done…instead it was squandered.

$787 billion squandered…

WisCon on March 4, 2011 at 12:40 PM

I’ve heard over the years how hatred of Catholics was just under hatred of blacks in the South. This is historical nonsense for a number of reason… the coastal cities of FL, AL, MS and LA were heavily Catholic; there were Catholics in the Confederate upper echelons; Pius IX sent a letter to Jefferson Davis essentially recognizing the CSA; although JW Booth was not Catholic, some of his co-conspirators were; and in 1928, the first Catholic on a major party ticket (Al Smith) won only 8 states, holding 6 solid, deep South states (AR, LA, MS, AL, GA, SC, MA, RI).

Apparently, the deep South hated Republicans more than Catholics.

mankai on March 4, 2011 at 11:45 AM

Religious bigotry against Catholics in the South is greatly overstated, IMHO, most definitely today and probably in the past as well.

What little there is today seems to be along the lines of regional rivalries for political power than anything else, as there’s been a traditional struggle for control of Louisiana between the northern part of the state, which is heavily Baptist, and the southern part of the state, which is heavily Catholic.

teke184 on March 4, 2011 at 12:41 PM

Being of Irish ancestry am I not entitled to REPARATION.

rjoco1 on March 4, 2011 at 12:44 PM

Have you noticed how AP’s mood is doom and gloom recently? I think he’s starting to figure it out.

DFCtomm on March 4, 2011 at 11:14 AM

I blame Sarah Palin! :)

dominigan on March 4, 2011 at 12:50 PM

I still like the proposal above of identifying companies putting out ads like these and hitting them in their bottom line. You don’t want us, but you want our patronage and money? Maybe YOU need to walk a mile in our shoes, and we’re happy to help you do that.

Christien on March 4, 2011 at 11:46 AM

Because nothing says I care about the unemployed, like making more of them! /sarc

At least those companies are hiring…

dominigan on March 4, 2011 at 12:58 PM

I found a job at 50 weeks, after consulting(database type stuff)whilst unemployed, but it was just a contract position, and however good it was to be working again,the contract ended.
11 good men, all over 45, left to twist in the breeze, but guess what? It Was A Contract!I knew it could end at anytime and I might not receive UI benefits after but so what?
It was nice to be working, even if only for 4 months,
No unemployed seems fair though,
Bob

Bobnormal on March 4, 2011 at 12:59 PM

…and, if you’re unemployed and over 50 you can absolutely forgetaboutit. You’re seen as a sloth, waiting on the day you’ll retire and looking for a rocking chair job to while away the hours. Please don’t suggest I’m wrong — I’ve lived it.

GoldenEagle4444 on March 4, 2011 at 12:59 PM

Oh, better declare that consulting money or else it’s fraud,
Ed,did you know I still pay income tax on all that filthy lucre I get from the Gov.Try that without a job,
Bob

Bobnormal on March 4, 2011 at 1:02 PM

teke184 on March 4, 2011 at 12:41 PM

When my family moved to the South (I was Catholic at the time), all I heard were horror stories. It was all nonsense.

Jefferson Davis had a Catholic (Dominican) education, members of his cabinet were Catholic, 20 Confederate generals were Catholic (including Longstreet). Mobile, Alabama, has a sizable Catholic population, a Catholic history and an old (1830) Catholic (Jesuit) College (which was more controversial for being pro-Soviet than for being Catholic).

Pockets of bigotry arose after the War for Southern Independence as conspiracy theories and suspicions abounded.

Davis’ Secretary of State was Jewish. He wrote to the Vatican for recognition of the CSA. The South was never inherently bigoted against any group apart from Africans.

mankai on March 4, 2011 at 1:02 PM

Here in Wilmington, Delaware, one of our longest-standing local banks (Wilmington Trust) just got bought out because it had ruined itself in bad loans. 700 people are losing their jobs, through absolutely no fault of their own. It’s darn near criminal.

All that stuff you hear about diversity in corporate America is bullcrap anyway. HR is a wasteland and, if that your entry point into an organization, you need to be a “template” rather than a person. Everything is a template unless you in a very senior spot or in a very specialized function.

DaydreamBeliever on March 4, 2011 at 1:04 PM

The sad truth is that I think the 2008-2018 period is going to be America’s “lost decade.” People have really been dealt a body blow and it’s going to take a very long time for the economy to absorb the “shock” and to bounce back.

Those people who are long-term unemployed are going to have to start over in entry-level jobs, possibly in industries and fields very new to them. For some, that will be a great opportunity. For others, it’ll represent a permanent reduction in station in life.

I feel worst for the 50+ workers who got laid off, because they’ll never be able to recover. Few people want to hire an older worker into such an entry level position, so their skills essentially go to waste. I know very talented people in their early 60s whose employers downsized them or flat went out of business who are basically bagging groceries while they wait for social security money. It’s sad–not to mention a huge social loss.

Outlander on March 4, 2011 at 1:04 PM

Exit Question: Has Dunce-with-Fins ever contributed anything substantial to any conversation here? Ever?

A Balrog of Morgoth on March 4, 2011 at 1:05 PM

If you become unemployed one thing you may quickly learn is that task #1 is to find a way around HR and get to the hiring manager. HR is typically staffed by young women with BA degrees that follow a mechanical formula provided to them by someone else to filter input.

slickwillie2001 on March 4, 2011 at 1:11 PM

HR is typically staffed by young women with BA degrees that follow a mechanical formula provided to them by someone else to filter input.

slickwillie2001 on March 4, 2011 at 1:11 PM

That or young male bootlickers who do the exact same thing. They’re even worse than the women, IMO.

Dark-Star on March 4, 2011 at 1:17 PM

I think that if I had a sure way to make money, maybe as little as $1,000 a week, and published a web site that detailed the process to registered users, I would have thousands of interested parties, maybe millions.
.
My intuition tells me that the vast majority of people want a fair wage and fair treatment, not management incompetence (and there is a LOT of incompetent management in the workplace and well as just plain old predatory management). If most people could make it on their own, they would love to do it. Look at the production that Ed and AP grind out day after day – it’s not easy to maintain that commitment no matter how much you love it or want to do it.

ExpressoBold on March 4, 2011 at 1:27 PM

http://is.gd/S5ZQgd

ConservativeTalkRadio on March 4, 2011 at 11:06 AM

Your source cites a secondary source saying

No historian, archivist, or museum curator has ever located one; no photograph or drawing exists.

One can only assume that this was written before Google Image Search – Or Google Books with its manmy excellent scans of books, newspapers, and magazines from the era in question.

dieudonne on March 4, 2011 at 1:30 PM

Businesses aren’t charities.

cool breeze on March 4, 2011 at 12:29 PM

Lets talk about charity then.

Why is the USA importing over a million “legal” immigrants a year, when real unemployment is over 20%?

Why are there nearly three million H1B visa holders working in America, given this unemployment rate?

Why is the US government handing out tax breaks to companies relocating jobs overseas?

Why is the US government spending taxpayers money to train Indians and other countries to speak English and train them to take American jobs?

Why is the US federal government tacitly approving 20 million illegal aliens to work here, while forcing taxpayers to educate and provide healthcare and other benefits to them?

Charity, indeed. In a sane country, there would be more than enough jobs.

Rebar on March 4, 2011 at 1:31 PM

In the bad old days of the 1800s, when it was legal for employers to discriminate against anyone they pleased, job postings used to say things like: “No Irish Need Apply.”

Ed, This was less than a generation after the Revo!ution. The sentiment goes way back. Something you might already know or might want to know. Google “white slave” + colonial America, or + British West Indies, or + Plantations of Ireland. Yes, attitudes eventually did change, that is part of the exceptionalism of America as a country but that attitude did exist in colonial America and you don’t just flip a switch and change people, generational change has to happen. And like I said, 1800 was less than a generation after the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I think this aspect and that part of colonial history goes a long way to explain the founding principles of our country.

Texas Gal on March 4, 2011 at 1:36 PM

Exit Question: Has Dunce-with-Fins ever contributed anything substantial to any conversation here? Ever?

A Balrog of Morgoth on March 4, 2011 at 1:05 PM

I don’t like admitting it but has – on one or two occasions that I can recall – said something of substance and intelligence that was actually related to the topic at hand. Of course he also such a jackass in the way he went about it that most people switched him off and completely missed his point.

Of course he also made sure to say these things in a way most likely to lead people to switch him off

dieudonne on March 4, 2011 at 1:38 PM

Rebar on March 4, 2011 at 1:31 PM

Nice post.

DFCtomm on March 4, 2011 at 1:52 PM

Businesses aren’t charities.

cool breeze on March 4, 2011 at 12:29 PM

Most aren’t. Many are.

Christien on March 4, 2011 at 2:13 PM

Businesses are not charities, but that does not mean being unemployed makes you a charity case.

I was laid off my previous job in 2008 after 8 years of working there because the company was getting near bankrupt. They were letting go a lot of good people. I immediately started sending out resumes. I sent to long shots, maybes, and those I knew for certain I was qualified. Nothing. I didn’t even get an interview.

I tried job fairs, but they’re a joke. Very few, if any, people get a job through them. You’ll see it when it happens. The one who maybe gets hired is talking to the interviewer for 10 minutes. Their resume is put in a folder and filed away in a special place. They will be getting a formal interview at least in the next week. For 99% of everyone else, the interviewer speaks to them for a minute tops then puts the resume on a pile of resumes right out in the open, also known as the trash pile. If the interviewer only speaks to you for 15 seconds, forget it.

Near the end of 2008 I finally did get hired. I decided to try a trade school of sorts to learn something knew. The administrator took a liking to me and assisted me in getting a job with the company that runs the school that has a business not involved with the school itself.

I like to view this whole experience as a blessing in disguise, though. A couple of years after I was hired personal tragedy struck which eventually led me to move to New Christie, I mean New Jersey :). I could not have done that had I remained at my old job with its lower pay and not conveniently located to have been able to move.

hadsil on March 4, 2011 at 2:14 PM

Rebar on March 4, 2011 at 1:31 PM

Minor point. English is already one of India’s official languages, so those Indians are most likely being trained to improve their English, which they already speak.

In very short order, we could replace every single illegal from Latin America with a law-abiding, English-speaking Indian who would pay his own way. But there’s little guarantee they’d vote Democrat, so RACIST!

Christien on March 4, 2011 at 2:19 PM

hadsil on March 4, 2011 at 2:14 PM

Congratulations! I’m happy things worked out for you. Btw, charities are non- and not-for-profit businesses.

Christien on March 4, 2011 at 2:24 PM

“Being of Irish ancestry am I not entitled to REPARATION.
rjoco1 on March 4, 2011 at 12:44 PM”

Great idea. I can count at least three lineages that ‘entitle’ me to reparations. I bet most of us can score mulitiple hits for reparations. Let’s collectively organize and bargain with Barry. ‘No justice. No peace.’ etc. BTW, do the Scots get any consideration for “Reps”? If so, that would be another score for me.

JimP on March 4, 2011 at 2:40 PM

Great idea. I can count at least three lineages that ‘entitle’ me to reparations. I bet most of us can score mulitiple hits for reparations. Let’s collectively organize and bargain with Barry. ‘No justice. No peace.’ etc. BTW, do the Scots get any consideration for “Reps”? If so, that would be another score for me.

JimP on March 4, 2011 at 2:40 PM

You and your extended family can also claim to have native blood from some long lost North American indian tribe, and therefore allowed to cash in by building a casino.

slickwillie2001 on March 4, 2011 at 2:57 PM

So prevalent is this new form of discrimination that the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission in February held hearings on it. The EEOC press release announcing them bore the catchy title “Out of Work? Out of Luck.”

Hey, Ed.

News would be revealing the Feb. hearings outcome from the EEOC.

The unemployed already know that they must fill-in the resume gap space with a current employment of sorts, even if part-time.

REPUBLICAN Congress went out of their way funding visa programs for highly skilled immigrants to displace the “tenured” American work force over the past decade at least. Ask Orrin Hatch, John Cornyn and KBHutchison all about it.

Study the percentage of American citizen engineering student graduates with foreign student graduates applying for stateside jobs in America. Study the percentage of US citizen vs. non-citizen trained but inexperienced newly employed.

Then get back to us with some news.

maverick muse on March 4, 2011 at 3:00 PM

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