Libya in flames: Qaddafi wages war on protesters, son vows to fight “until the last bullet”

posted at 7:20 pm on February 20, 2011 by Allahpundit

The war metaphor in the headline is no metaphor: Tanks, snipers, artillery, and helicopter gunships are being used against protesters in Benghazi, where more than 200 have already been shot dead. According to a journalist there, women were seen jumping off a bridge with their children as a last resort when Qaddafi’s mercenaries advanced on them. Another report claims that soldiers opened fire on mourners participating in a funeral procession. The stories I read as recently as Friday night claimed that the Libyan demonstrations wouldn’t amount to much because, for one thing, they were contained thus far to provinces that have always been anti-Qaddafi and, for another thing, if push came to shove the military would simply start mowing people down. Two days later, neither of those arguments is still convincing. Street battles replete with gunfire have broken out in Tripoli, the Libyan capital, and there are eyewitness accounts of some Libyan troops switching sides. Quote:

Earlier, members of a Libyan army unit told Benghazi residents they have defected and “liberated” the city from pro-Gaddafi forces.

Speaking from the city, a local man named Benali, told Sky News that members of the Libya’s armed forces have defected and that anti-regime protesters are now in control of the city.

Habib al-Obaidi, who heads the intensive care unit at the main Al-Jalae hospital, appeared to confirm the reports, saying the “Thunderbolt” squad arrived at the hospital with soldiers who had been injured in clashes with Gaddafi’s men.

“They are now saying that they have overpowered the Praetorian Guard and that they have joined the people’s revolt,” said Mr al-Obaidi.

So quickly has this ignited that, as I write this, there are rumors spreading on Twitter and being treated as semi-plausible by people in the know that Qaddafi’s already bugged out and left for Venezuela. There’s no evidence that it’s true — Libya’s essentially off-limits to media, so it’s impossible to tell facts from propaganda on either side — but the regime’s in enough trouble that Qaddafi’s son had to go on national TV within the last hour or so and vow, “We will fight to the last minute, until the last bullet.” Next stop: Civil war. Sides are already being chosen, in fact:

Late on Sunday, the country’s Warfala tribe, one of the largest among Libya’s population of 6.4 million, announced it was throwing its heft behind the protesters, suggesting momentum was tipping further against Mr. Gadhafi…

In the city of Bayda, east of Benghazi and close to Libya’s border with Egypt, witnesses said local police turned their guns on the army’s second brigade after it deployed inside the city and fired live ammunition at protesters. The local police’s flip forced the surprised army forces to withdraw to the airport on the city’s outskirts, according to witnesses…

“There are really no constraints at all on what Gadhafi can do and we’ve reached the point where a lot of peaceful protesters are starting to arm themselves to do battle,” said Heba Morayef, a researcher for Human Rights Watch following events in Libya.

A Libyan dissident answered Qaddafi Jr’s warning of a civil war this way: “He promised that the country would spiral into civil war for the next 30 to 40 years, that the country’s infrastructure would be ruined, hospitals and schools would no longer be functioning – but schools are already terrible, hospitals are already in bad condition.” After 42 years of fascism, poverty, and the weirdest totalitarian cult of personality this side of Kim Kong-il, there’s nothing left to lose. Read Michael Totten’s vivid account of visiting there a few years ago and see for yourself how hopeless the country’s become; even the “nicer” parts sound like rundown Havana, the less nice parts like Pyongyang.

There’s bound to be more news tomorrow, if not tonight, so stand by for updates. Exit quotation: “The United States is gravely concerned with disturbing reports and images coming out of Libya.”

Update: Another eyewitness account of Libya’s unimaginable squalor from Reason’s Michael Moynihan, who visited there last year as part of a junket paid for by Qaddafi’s allegedly reform-minded son Seif — the same son who just threatened civil war on Libyan television.

Libya ought to at least resemble a wealthy country, with its vast oil reserves and all those desperate politicians willing to do almost anything in exchange for access to them. Yet Tripoli is covered from end to end in garbage. Among the few benefits of living in a dictatorship, I had presumed, were that the trains run on time, crime is low, and armies of revolutionary trash collectors ensure that tourists tell their friends the country might not have elections but is at least exceptionally clean.

Remove the oil economy, and it isn’t entirely clear what Libyans do for money. The only shops I spot are selling either vegetables or cigarettes, sometimes both. There are markets trading in all manner of junk: old sewing machines, toilets, fake perfume (Hugo Boos seems particularly popular). The most frequently promoted product (aside from the ubiquitous face of Qaddafi staring down from countless billboards) is, inexplicably, corn oil. After decades of crippling trade sanctions under an aging and increasingly batty dictator, and with no tourism industry to speak of, Libya’s economy is a shambles. In their latest Index of Economic Freedom, the Heritage Foundation and The Wall Street Journal rank the country 171st out of 179, only slightly edging out the Union of the Comoros and the Democratic Republic of Congo…

Everything in this country is delayed or nonfunctioning, from the telephone in my hotel room to the 40-year-old political system. Libya doesn’t even have a functioning postal service—which might explain why the U.S. Postal Service charges almost $300 to ship a 10-pound package to the country. It will likely be easier to undo Libya’s fractured relationship with the West than it will be to undo four decades of domestic failure.

Update: More regime defections as Libya’s ambassadors to China and the Arab League resign in protest. Note that that news is being touted on Press TV, which is funded by Iran.


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Mixed messages? It has all seemed pro radical islam to me.

GaltBlvnAtty on February 20, 2011 at 8:53 PM

that seems to be the most coherent and consistent angle of the whole works over there, doesn’t it?

ted c on February 20, 2011 at 8:56 PM

ted c on February 20, 2011 at 8:56 PM

Call it fate or Caliphate?

kingsjester on February 20, 2011 at 8:59 PM

http://www.thelin.net/laurent/cinema/films/tt0082517/30291.jpg

ace tomato on February 20, 2011 at 8:36 PM

ace tomato:With a Hopey fly on his right cheeck,to boot,lol!!

canopfor on February 20, 2011 at 9:00 PM

The generals in Egypt must be crying buckets. A grab of the Libyan oil fields would have been easy pickings for their panzers just a few short weeks ago.

Limerick on February 20, 2011 at 9:02 PM

canopfor on February 20, 2011 at 7:58 PM

What are you talking about? That was particularly incoherent, even by your standards.

MJBrutus on February 20, 2011 at 9:03 PM

If only the Reagan bombing run would have killed this murderer decades ago.

Ditto the comment about the dictator replacing the dictator over there……the Ruling Class loves to treat the serfs like this in EVERY nation the citizens ate not WELL ARMED.

Note to self.

PappyD61 on February 20, 2011 at 9:03 PM

ARE…….not ate.

Stinking little iPhone keypad! :-)

PappyD61 on February 20, 2011 at 9:05 PM

Can Obama tear himself away from NBA All-Star festivities long enough to issue a strongly worded statement?

JammieWearingFool on February 20, 2011 at 7:49 PM

It would have been issued earlier but the one last sane person in the White House is trying in vain to explain to Barry that the statement should not condemn the protestors.

turfmann on February 20, 2011 at 9:08 PM

If you’re interested in learning more about the dystopia that Khaddafi has built. There is a great piece right here….http://pajamasmedia.com/michaeltotten/2011/02/20/in-the-land-of-the-brother-leader-2/

ted c on February 20, 2011 at 9:10 PM

Stinking little iPhone keypad! :-)

PappyD61 on February 20, 2011 at 9:05 PM

Completely OT (but we need a laugh)…

I bought my wife an iPhone for Valentines Day. She loves it but its taking a few days to get used to it.

She will occasionally call me Senor Guapo (Handsome) as a pet name.

When she went to type it into the iPhone, the auto correct feature replaced Guapo with Guano.

Senor Batsh***? I replied?

No, Senor Guano!

Guano!

Guano!

What’s happening!

Naturally, I was in tears watching this come over the screen.

turfmann on February 20, 2011 at 9:14 PM

The Sarir oil fields are just south of Benghazi. Whoever controls the Cyrenaica basin controls Libya. Tripoli is just where the man/woman thing lived.

Limerick on February 20, 2011 at 9:15 PM

“Get Khadafi!”
–Bob Grant

Emperor Norton on February 20, 2011 at 9:17 PM

smart power

Limerick on February 20, 2011 at 9:19 PM

Naturally, I was in tears watching this come over the screen.

turfmann on February 20, 2011 at 9:14 PM

hehe! that’s funny. Looks like she, and the ‘smart phone’, are trying to tell you something…!

ted c on February 20, 2011 at 9:20 PM

Next stop: Civil war. Sides are already being chosen, in fact:

Late on Sunday, the country’s Warfala tribe, one of the largest among Libya’s population of 6.4 million, announced it was throwing its heft behind the protesters, suggesting momentum was tipping further against Mr. Gadhafi

As the World Burns…

ted c on February 20, 2011 at 9:22 PM

The world focus is on a group of 7 million Jews arguing with 4 million Pals as the great evil in the ME. Forget about the 200 million living under the heal of men like MoMo. God forbid we would ever think the Arabs problems are of their own damn making.

Limerick on February 20, 2011 at 9:32 PM

heal = heel or whatever

Limerick on February 20, 2011 at 9:34 PM

I may choke back the bile just long enough to see what Geraldo has to spin @ 10pm (for a few minutes)

Ugly on February 20, 2011 at 9:38 PM

..there will be wars and rumors of wars.

http://lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/24?lang=eng

read the truth.

ted c on February 20, 2011 at 9:38 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mutassim_Gadaffi_Hilary_Clinton.jpg

illuminating picture.

ted c on February 20, 2011 at 9:41 PM

hehe! that’s funny. Looks like she, and the ‘smart phone’, are trying to tell you something…!

ted c on February 20, 2011 at 9:20 PM

*sniff*

Not as bad as a camel… yet.

Back to Libya.

That is going to be ugly. That will be warfare the old fashioned way – hand to hand with machetes and the like.

And they isn’t a damned thing we can do about it.

People will cheer that Qaddafi is gone, but they won’t think for a second as to what blows into town to take his place. It just seems that in the vacuum things will actually get a whole lot worse.

Qaddafi is bad enough and deserves to go but…

turfmann on February 20, 2011 at 9:43 PM

Oh well….it is the man who sits on the oil fields that will win this. Be that Manny, Mo, or Jack, doesn’t matter. If I were Colonel Sandinmycrack in Libya I’d be marching my brigade to the wellheads.

Limerick on February 20, 2011 at 9:49 PM

ted c on February 20, 2011 at 9:41 PM

Amen to that ted. The bride and I were talking about this earlier today. We were discussing what would happen when “disaster” strikes and we were told to evacuate. Evacuate to where? For what purpose? To save our flesh on Earth?

Curiously, I look upon the incongruity enveloping the world at breakneck speed – and see the “man” occupying the White House as the catalyst – I am not afraid of it. I know that the entire world could be gone in the morning, but somehow my faith has grown and I know that this is but temporary.

turfmann on February 20, 2011 at 9:55 PM

I’m trying to find a video clip of that old show on HBO called “Not Necessarily the News” from the 80′s. They had a jingle called Qaddafi Junction that was hilarious. I still remember the imagery of qaddafi riding a farm tractor.

maineconservative on February 20, 2011 at 10:09 PM

Apparently, Lil’ Kim is feeling left out.

BallisticBob on February 20, 2011 at 10:13 PM

Yeah. Last week the ROKs and the U.S. Nayv, then the JDF and the U.S. Navy announced upcoming drills. That for sure set Lil Kim and Lil-lil Kim reaching for their inhalers.

Limerick on February 20, 2011 at 10:18 PM

The World is going up in flames. I am sure glad we have a great leader like Churchill Reagan Chamberlain Obama in charge.

Corsair on February 20, 2011 at 10:25 PM

Curiously, I look upon the incongruity enveloping the world at breakneck speed – and see the “man” occupying the White House as the catalyst – I am not afraid of it. I know that the entire world could be gone in the morning, but somehow my faith has grown and I know that this is but temporary.

turfmann on February 20, 2011 at 9:55 PM

yep. i will see you on the other side.

ted c on February 20, 2011 at 10:31 PM

All of the unruly kids of the world know that there is a substitute teacher an unruly D student in the White House.

Dr. Carlo Lombardi on February 20, 2011 at 8:22 PM

North Africa and the Middle East are on fire. This could be the first step to a Persian controlled Middle East, thanks to the naivety and the incompetence of Barry.

If you think that Europe and the US are vulnerable now with their economy so dependent on oil from the Middle East, wait till most of the oil producing regions of the World are under the rule of Islamofascists.

bayview on February 20, 2011 at 10:34 PM

And still: No new drilling.

GaltBlvnAtty on February 20, 2011 at 10:49 PM

I’m sure the Leftists will spin this a some sort of consequence of Obama releasing the Lockerbie bomber… or something.

DANEgerus on February 20, 2011 at 11:31 PM

Qaddafi is evil. One part demonic, one part sociopath.Tragic for the people trying to survive.May true freedom come to them.

3dpuzzman on February 20, 2011 at 11:32 PM

I’m just glad out Dept of State and CIA are undoubtedly on top of all of this. You know, staying up late to watch CNN and stuff.

forest on February 20, 2011 at 11:35 PM

“We will fight to the last minute, until the last bullet.”

Yep, and its about that time one of the tyrants’ guards steps up behind him and delivers that last bullet.

Happy trails, scumbag.

mustng66 on February 20, 2011 at 11:57 PM

True conservatives fast turning into Gadaffi supporters.

And funny: Rabidly religious bible thumpers find other religious nuts bad.

And somehow it is all Obama’a fault. So what should he do in this case?

And yes, Reagan would have set it right—whatever right in this case is—with a magic wand. Same guy who ran away from Beruit…

rightistliberal on February 21, 2011 at 12:14 AM

rightistliberal on February 21, 2011 at 12:14 AM

Dude, Scooter is irrelevant to foreign powers. They have taken his measure and view him with amused contempt. The only value he adds to any foreign policy issue is entertainment. Weak horse.

a capella on February 21, 2011 at 12:24 AM

Wow, just read that Totten article from his Lybia visit. Crazy. That guy has got some balls.

Vigilante on February 21, 2011 at 12:25 AM

rightistliberal on February 21, 2011 at 12:14 AM

You’re kind of a hit and runner aren’t you? Any deep thoughts at all?

a capella on February 21, 2011 at 12:33 AM

Anyone against him having the last bullet, please say ‘aye’.

No dissent. So son of Qaddafi, your dad can have the last bullet.

Birdseye on February 21, 2011 at 12:37 AM

What is happening in the Middle East is what I think happened in the 1920s and 1930s in Europe.

A radical extremist world veiw (Communism) came into being. It pushed its veiwpoint all over the world. As a counter balance a radical extremist movement (Facism) rose to combat it. And the democracies sat on the sidelines and ignored the rise of both.This was the cause of WWII.

William Amos on February 20, 2011 at 7:44 PM

The fascist are communist. So are the greens.

Slowburn on February 21, 2011 at 12:43 AM

You’re kind of a hit and runner aren’t you? Any deep thoughts at all?

a capella on February 21, 2011 at 12:33 AM

Hmmm, good question: Maybe you could ask those who think it’s all Obama.

Here’s a deep thought: STOP thinking nothing moves in the world without White House’s permission. These revolts have nothing to do with Obama says or not says—even though it is entirely possible he is delusional enough to believe that. These people have been suffering for decades—literally—and finally have seized their chance.

How it pans out no one knows…it might be good or in some cases, there is genuine fear of rise of Islamist government. But there is only so much White House can influence that.

You can’t run 300 million people as sort of a colonial power.

rightistliberal on February 21, 2011 at 12:47 AM

You can’t run 300 million people as sort of a colonial power.

rightistliberal on February 21, 2011 at 12:47 AM

Yes, you can.

OldEnglish on February 21, 2011 at 12:50 AM

“Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.” -Orwell

Tzetzes on February 20, 2011 at 8:06 PM

While Orwell wrote great cautionary tails, he was not always right.

While many have tortured for fun. For the non-evil that have used torture the purpose was generally information.

The evil have given a bad name to everything that the have touched.

Slowburn on February 21, 2011 at 12:50 AM

True conservatives fast turning into Gadaffi supporters.

And funny: Rabidly religious bible thumpers find other religious nuts bad.

And somehow it is all Obama’a fault. So what should he do in this case?

And yes, Reagan would have set it right—whatever right in this case is—with a magic wand. Same guy who ran away from Beruit…

rightistliberal on February 21, 2011 at 12:14 AM

Agreed. Self determination has been the postwar promise. I don’t get the far right’s opposition to classic conservative ideals. We should be happy that people are brave enough to risk death for the freedoms we take for granted.

lexhamfox on February 21, 2011 at 1:09 AM

Here’s a deep thought: STOP thinking nothing moves in the world without White House’s permission. These revolts have nothing to do with Obama says or not says—even though it is entirely possible he is delusional enough to believe that. These people have been suffering for decades—literally—and finally have seized their chance.

I agree completely.

How it pans out no one knows…it might be good or in some cases, there is genuine fear of rise of Islamist government. But there is only so much White House can influence that.

Gadhafi gave up his nukes. I do agree we have little control over present events in the ME, other than failure to support Israel, but surely you agree our State Dept and intelligence agencies have not covered themselves with glory over the last few months. The last UN vote on Israel is another example. That is Obama’s responsibility.

You can’t run 300 million people as sort of a colonial power. rightistliberal on February 21, 2011 at 12:47 AM

Who was doing that?

a capella on February 21, 2011 at 1:13 AM

Reagan knew that words are wasted on madmen. He let decisive action speak for him, and Ghadafi changed his ways overnight and played nice with his neighbors for decades.

Obama hasn’t a clue: his executive style is “run and hide”. All of the world’s military strongmen know this and will take every opportunity to kick sand in his face. We can expect increasing provocations, probably including kidnappings and confiscation of American assets as long as Obama is still president.

“Peace through Strength” works. Apologies and blather only invite serious trouble.

landlines on February 21, 2011 at 1:19 AM

True conservatives fast turning into Gadaffi supporters.

And funny: Rabidly religious bible thumpers find other religious nuts bad.

And somehow it is all Obama’a fault. So what should he do in this case?

And yes, Reagan would have set it right—whatever right in this case is—with a magic wand. Same guy who ran away from Beruit…

rightistliberal on February 21, 2011 at 12:14 AM

Who tried to kill Qadaffi?

Hint: It wasn’t Obama.

Dreadnought on February 21, 2011 at 1:35 AM

Agreed. Self determination has been the postwar promise. I don’t get the far right’s opposition to classic conservative ideals. We should be happy that people are brave enough to risk death for the freedoms we take for granted.

lexhamfox on February 21, 2011 at 1:09 AM

It remains to be seen whether they are actually risking their lives for the “freedoms we take for granted”, or for something else entirely.

Considering past uprisings of this type, it would take incredible naivete not to be skeptical.

Dreadnought on February 21, 2011 at 1:38 AM

No one is opposed to the people fighting for freedom and democracy. but democracy need the soil to take hold. It is naive to think that the fall of those dictators will necessarily lead to democracy and freedom. When events spun so rapidly and totally out of control, in countries that have no tradition or structure for democracy,they create the vacuum for the Islamic fanatics or the next ruthless dictator. A great example is what came out of the uprising in Iran back in 1979 or Haiti for overthrowing Baby Doc.

Barry has to shoulder the responsibility of not showing leadership, and the ineptness and impotence of his foreign policies. An example of which is his amateurish handling of the events in Egypt. He showed ample weakness that allowed Iran to sow unrest in the region, and built up the network of Islamists waiting to take advantage of chaos when they occur. Go and apologize for him for all you want. History will tell you he is worse for democracy and freedom than Jimmie Carter.

bayview on February 21, 2011 at 1:41 AM

You know, Gadhafi is really ugly. And I am not even talking about “the person he is on the inside” ugly. That would take about 20 paragraphs more than I am willing to write to describe properly. I refer to his face. I mean, my God, I always get this twitch when I see a photo of him as my mind tries to resolve what looks like a creation from ‘Face Off’ and the realization that it’s real.

Samuel Marlowe on February 21, 2011 at 1:57 AM

It remains to be seen whether they are actually risking their lives for the “freedoms we take for granted”, or for something else entirely.

Considering past uprisings of this type, it would take incredible naivete not to be skeptical.

Dreadnought on February 21, 2011 at 1:38 AM

I’m always skeptical. Skeptical is healthy. Hypocrisy is not.

lexhamfox on February 21, 2011 at 2:11 AM

I think the time to bash Obama has passed, this is far too important to criticize Obama. I think he has shown some exemplary leadership during these times and he has taken unusually hard stances.
I know for a fact that he has Hillary, Biden, Carter, Kerry, and several others working on a sternly written memo to be delivered at some time to Qaddafi…along with a dvd of his speeches.
…I think it begins with: If it wasn’t for the Jews, I think we could be friends….

right2bright on February 21, 2011 at 2:49 AM

rightistliberal on February 21, 2011 at 12:14 AM

Let me guess…you didn’t finish at the top of your class.
First your post is barely literate, second you seem to be skewed in your history, and third I can’t believe I am posting to someone so stupid…you absolutely won’t have a inkling of what I and others are posting. I assume your answer to this will be:
Huh?

right2bright on February 21, 2011 at 2:54 AM

bayview on February 21, 2011 at 1:41 AM

You bring up 79 but 53 matters too… There was a time when the radical Islam which we see now was under a heavy rock… when women in Cairo, Baghdad, Amman, Jerusalem, and Tehran did not wear extra garb and secular governments were common.

Iran had democracy before it went to the Mullahs. Obviously people still want it there and have not forgotten or these things would not be taking place. Let’s see where these people really want to go. 79 hasn’t worked for them anymore than the green revolution worked in Libya.

lexhamfox on February 21, 2011 at 3:00 AM

Iraq has tasted freedom, and the news is out, it ain’t so bad.
That makes the controlling powers nervous. They see and sense (rightly so) a president who is weak,unskilled, and naive, they know he will not do anything to protect citizens. He ain’t Thatcher, Reagan, Bush, Bush, or even a Clinton, Obama is a weak Carter at best.
These leaders talk with each other, they know how Obama acts, what he is incapable of, they have no fear of the U.S. intervening. So the people see a chance to create chaos, the powers seize the opportunity to suppress, and the U.S. is essentially powerless because of the complete inability of Obama to make a decision and lead.
The sheep don’t like the sheepdog, but when the sheepdog is gone the sheep get nervous, anxious, and they begin to come unraveled, and the wolves pick them off, one at a time.
Our sheepdog retired, and we have a pussy cat watching the sheep from the barn.

right2bright on February 21, 2011 at 3:03 AM

Iraq has tasted freedom, and the news is out, it ain’t so bad.
That makes the controlling powers nervous. They see and sense (rightly so) a president who is weak,unskilled, and naive, they know he will not do anything to protect citizens. He ain’t Thatcher, Reagan, Bush, Bush, or even a Clinton, Obama is a weak Carter at best.
These leaders talk with each other, they know how Obama acts, what he is incapable of, they have no fear of the U.S. intervening. So the people see a chance to create chaos, the powers seize the opportunity to suppress, and the U.S. is essentially powerless because of the complete inability of Obama to make a decision and lead.
The sheep don’t like the sheepdog, but when the sheepdog is gone the sheep get nervous, anxious, and they begin to come unraveled, and the wolves pick them off, one at a time.
Our sheepdog retired, and we have a scardy cat watching the sheep from the barn.

right2bright on February 21, 2011 at 3:04 AM

I’m always skeptical. Skeptical is healthy. Hypocrisy is not.

lexhamfox on February 21, 2011 at 2:11 AM

I am still trying to find this hypocrisy you are referring to. Unless you are simply just throwing that word around in a poor attempt at feigning moral high ground.

And your claim that you are always skeptical is in contradiction to your previous comments. Your comment that

people are brave enough to risk death for the freedoms we take for granted.

is just pushing propaganda. Do you happen to have insights into the objective(s) of the protesters? Did they let you know they have the plans for democratic republic all written up? A nice little bastion of peace and democracy will just sprout up from all their tears and blood, yes?

There isn’t a poster here that has any love for Gadhafi. They do however recognize that if he were to fall he would just be replaced with another dictator. Perhaps he would kill less of his own people, perhaps he would kill more.

So what should we do?

Should we cheer on the protesters? Should we encourage them to die by the hundreds? All just so we can feel better about ourselves knowing that someone out there is fighting, dieing, for those “freedoms we take for granted”? And while we sit our comfortable chairs and sleep in secure beds.

So, who again, is the hypocrite?

Samuel Marlowe on February 21, 2011 at 3:22 AM

You bring up 79 but 53 matters too… There was a time when the radical Islam which we see now was under a heavy rock… when women in Cairo, Baghdad, Amman, Jerusalem, and Tehran did not wear extra garb and secular governments were common.

Might that have something to do with colonial occupation as well as the national socialist Ba’athist regimes and post-colonial government? Since independence the nations of the Middle East have been slowly drifting back to Islam which had been driven from the political arena by western occupation and western political ideology.

Reformers such as Zahir Shah in Afghanistan, Reza Pahlavi in Iran, and Kemel Ataturk in Turkey made attempts to reform the Islamic culture but ultimately failed. They reformed by imposing laws from above and used military power or their revolutionary status to do so.

Iran had democracy before it went to the Mullahs. Obviously people still want it there and have not forgotten or these things would not be taking place. Let’s see where these people really want to go. 79 hasn’t worked for them anymore than the green revolution worked in Libya.

lexhamfox on February 21, 2011 at 3:00 AM

They had democracy in Gaza and chose Hamas. We have the popularity of Hezbollah in Lebanon. In Algeria the Islamic Salvation Front would have swept the 1991 elections which is why the elections were canceled. The Muslim Brotherhood would also win in Egypt.

Any decent poll of the Muslim world will show exactly what the attitude of the average person is towards Islam’s place in society, Sharia law, women, Jews, western culture, and concepts of justice such as stoning for adultery.

Egypt…
82%: Believe adulterers should be stoned

84%: Believe apostates from Islam should face the death penalty

77%: Believe thieves should be flogged or have their hands cut off

That is the bedrock of your middle eastern democracy and all the singing and dancing about what once was, or maybe coulda been isn’t going to change that.

sharrukin on February 21, 2011 at 3:41 AM

kadaffy is crackers as hell…

Army Brat on February 21, 2011 at 5:28 AM

The fascist are communist. So are the greens.

Slowburn on February 21, 2011 at 12:43 AM

All those groups have a love of government and its power.

William Amos on February 21, 2011 at 6:52 AM

Wonder what side the SAS-trained Libyans have taken?

FLASHBACK 2009: Allies and Enemies

SAS has been training Gaddafi’s soldiers, which some within the SAS find distasteful for many reasons, not least of all the fact that the Col’s regime,

for years provided Republican terrorists with the Semtex explosive, machine-guns and anti-aircraft missiles used against British troops during the Troubles in Northern Ireland.

Talk about asking for trouble. The SAS + Libyan troops = nothing good.

Have we learned nothing from enabling vicious leaders elsewhere to become even more malicious in intent and capable in action?

Terp Mole on February 21, 2011 at 8:13 AM

This is the same Gaddafi who voluntarily gave up Libya’s WMD program under Bush because he was quaking in his boots over the Iraq invasion. He gave this speech in 2008 to Arab leaders telling them, Any one of you might be next.

He even scolded Mahmoud Ahmadinejah in Aug 2008 over his in-your-face diplomacy with the States saying, Have You Learned Nothing From Iraq?

Then when Obama took office, Gaddafi praised Obama at the U.N. and said We’re Proud of our son Obama

I blame Obama for what is happening in Libya (and Egypt and Yemen,etc), and I don’t mean that in a good way.

Amy Proctor on February 21, 2011 at 9:30 AM

Since we have become Greece so quickly, will we next become the middle east? This is what happens when tyrants take over a govt and run it their way and the people don’t like it.

Kissmygrits on February 21, 2011 at 9:50 AM

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