Palin defends GOProud participation at CPAC

posted at 10:12 am on February 7, 2011 by Ed Morrissey

No great surprise here, really; Palin has quietly backed the end of DADT and expressed support for conservative gays and lesbians in the past. Speaking here with David Brody from the Christian Broadcast Network and excerpted by Breitbart TV, Palin doesn’t endorse GOProud but does defend their attendance at CPAC, and argues that the value of events such as CPAC is to debate the issues and provide as much information as possible to attendees:

Well, I’ve never attended a CPAC conference ever so I was a little taken aback this go around when I couldn’t make it to this one either and then there was a speculation well I either agree or disagree with some of the groups or issues that CPAC is discussing. It really is a matter of time for me. But when it comes to and David, perhaps what it is that you’re suggesting in the question is should the GOP, should conservatives not reach out to others, not participate in events or forums that perhaps are rising within those forums are issues that maybe we don’t personally agree with? And I say no, it’s like you being on a panel shoot, with a bunch of the liberal folks whom you have been on and you provide good information and balance, and you allow for healthy debate, which is needed in order for people to gather information and make up their own minds about issues.

I look at participation in an event like CPAC or any other event, along, or kind of in that same vein as the more information that people have, the better.

I’m not sure we’ve polled on this question at all, so this seems like a good time to do so. Should conservatives welcome GOProud, or should they skip CPAC if GOProud participates?


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…The problem I’m having in answering these questions is the shadow of conflict between speaking the truth in love (i.e. Sex outside of the heterosexual marriage is unnatural and wrong) and Paul’s teachings in 1 Corinthians 5:9-13. According to his letter to the church at Corinth, judgement of the non-Christian is reserved to God, while condemnation of the sins of those in the church is an accepted institution of tough love. Dumbcollegekid on February 7, 2011 at 4:20 PM

The reservation of judgement of the non-Christian to God isn’t a request to not identify sin or call it what it is.

Identifying sin and turning away from it is not “judgement” of the soul of non-Christians, it is doing what God asks of us (to turn away from sin and to know what sin is, and to call it what it is and not involve in it and if so, to repent from it and disengage from it).

So the non-Christian and even some Christians wrongly libel Christ, Christians and Christianity as somehow “judging” people or “condemning” those who engage in what we know to be sin.

It’s not Christians who are condemning most who engage in sin and certainly we are not those who are harming those who do, yet that’s the lie about Christians, unfortunately.

What I think this springs from is that when a person is engaged in sin, they do make sinful declarations especially about those who identify the sin. That includes non-Christians and Christians alike.

I believe that Christ’s incident of casting out the legion of demons from the man (Mark 5) wherein the man cried out to Christ first, that he/they knew who He was AND that they didn’t want Him to “torment” them…I think this is the issue with sin as to metaphor for it: when it’s identified, the sin knows it’s situation and cries out to not be “cast out” or “tormented” and knows Christ and Christ’s commands to the contrary. Thus, Christ IS recognized but feared and “the sin” fears being sent away to the obvious destination.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:36 PM

It’s supposed to be agreement on principle, while issues in contention are shelved, as opposed to Democrats, where the only principle is that everybody should get service on their favorite issue.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:33 PM

Gay marriage is effectively shelved. Nobody runs on it. States have been holding votes. The issue at hand is whether a group that agrees on principle with conservatives should be excluded from CPAC because of that relatively minor issue that only seems to really rile passions on the internet. If anything, I thought the conservative principle was not “shut up”.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:37 PM

Benjamin Franklin at the Congressional Congress, 1787

I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth–that God Governs the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?

We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that “except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it.” I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by Human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.

I therefore beg leave to move–that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessing on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service.

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 4:38 PM

Even though I am not a proponent of gay marriage, I can’t help but think that way too much emphasis is being put on sex. People are willing to give or withhold things from others based on sex? It seems very odd to me.

Cindy Munford on February 7, 2011 at 4:38 PM

Though I guess the official line is that Genesis somehow comes from Moses.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:12 PM

That’s what the Jews believe as well… what is your point?

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:38 PM

I thought the conservative principle was not “shut up”.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:37 PM

It isn’t.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 7, 2011 at 4:39 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on February 7, 2011 at 4:39 PM

It isn’t ‘shut up’.
Sorry Mad Con.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 7, 2011 at 4:40 PM

Why?

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:36 PM

Because, without prooff, that assertion is simply a theory. Atheists insist that Christians prove that God is real. Goose/gander, etc.

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 4:40 PM

You’re just reciting what a 2000+ year-old book says, no matter how much it contradicts itself, no matter how ridiculous it is, no matter what’s inaccurate in it and no matter what it says. Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:02 PM

Please share some of these inaccuracies and contradictions with us. Thanks.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:40 PM

Though I guess the official line is that Genesis somehow comes from Moses.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:12 PM

That’s what the Jews believe as well… what is your point?

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:38 PM

That’s outdated. The Documentary Hypothesis is now generally accepted, suggesting at least four different authors. One is thought to be by Aaronid priests, but none by Moses.

alwaysfiredup on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:40 PM

And don’t forget to cite your sources.

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

If anything, I thought the conservative principle was not “shut up”. MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:37 PM

Well, since you think conservatism should conserve things that never existed, what you thought matters little.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 4:40 PM

True or false, myth accurately describes it.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

And don’t forget to cite your sources.
kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

His sources will be atheist web sites he’s frantically pillaging as I type.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 3:40 PM

Even if you tried, you couldn’t be more of an idiot. But keep on..keeping on.

JetBoy on February 7, 2011 at 3:45 PM

You’re still a liar.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:43 PM

Wow, Sarah Palin on Hot Air? Does Hot Air send Sarah Palin checks for the business she drives their way???

She simply says they have a right to have their opinion heard! She doesn’t support overturning a few thousand years of history on marriage. The whole concept is silly and not even worth the time of the debate. The ship is sinking and people are debating whether gay Ben can wear his glittering dress in the lifeboat. Face your enemy.

Africanus on February 7, 2011 at 4:44 PM

CWA’s Penny Nance Responds to GOProud Letter — 11/15/10 by Concerned Women of America
http://www.cwfa.org/content.asp?id=19651

…that has a link to the notorious “letter to the GOP” from GOProud in which they asked that “social issues” be excluded from the GOP.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:24 PM

I’m trying to get through this thread so I can go back and read the links.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:44 PM

True or false, myth accurately describes it.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

That’s simply your opinion.

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 4:44 PM

Well, since you think conservatism should conserve things that never existed, what you thought matters little.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

So being for a balanced budget amendment is not conservative? After all, it never existed. How about a federal marriage amendment? How about term limits?

Since you think the word conservatism literally applies to every facet of the ideology it labels, what you think matters even less.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:46 PM

True or false, myth accurately describes it.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

Even some Christians-myself included-take much of the Bible as God-inspired allegory-not something to be taking literally.
I believe in evolution-and God is the who to caused things to evolve.
It’s more than a ‘myth’-but there are different schools within Christianity-and Judaism- as to the proper way to interpret it.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 7, 2011 at 4:46 PM

I don’t believe for a second that our founding father’s asked us to divorce culture and law. It doesn’t make much sense to believe that a world-view defining belief could ever not have at least a formative influence on policy.

Dumbcollegekid on February 7, 2011 at 4:32 PM

That is the heart of the first amendment, as well as the limitation of federal power.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:35 PM

It took me a while to understand that you were disagreeing since we both look at the First Amendment as supportive evidence.

Question: So when the men who founded our country argued for the first concepts of basic human rights, they never pulled any material from any non-political ideology?

The issue is not should belief shape policy but rather of the possibility of shaping policy absent belief of any sort.

Impossible.

Dumbcollegekid on February 7, 2011 at 4:46 PM

“Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God,” 1 Corinthians 6.

“Oh that’s a bunch of bull,” -CPAC.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM

You’re still a liar.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:43 PM

I agree. I think your potential for idiocy has not yet been explored.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM

So we understand that your position is based on a mythology a divinely inspired Book that is backed up with much historical evidence I believe with all my heart.

Great. Now how do we proceed with rational debate? Give me the basis of your beliefs…

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 4:32 PM

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:48 PM

True or false, myth accurately describes it.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

…did you really miss that contradiction?

If something is true, how is it a myth?

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:48 PM

So being for a balanced budget amendment is not conservative? After all, it never existed. How about a federal marriage amendment? How about term limits?

Since you think the word conservatismconserve literally applies to every facet of the ideology it labels, what you think matters even less.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:46 PM

*sigh* Long day.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:50 PM

I believe that Christ’s incident of casting out the legion of demons from the man (Mark 5) wherein the man cried out to Christ first, that he/they knew who He was AND that they didn’t want Him to “torment” them…I think this is the issue with sin as to metaphor for it: when it’s identified, the sin knows it’s situation and cries out to not be “cast out” or “tormented” and knows Christ and Christ’s commands to the contrary. Thus, Christ IS recognized but feared and “the sin” fears being sent away to the obvious destination.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:36 PM

This is good (the whole post actually) I know what is in the Bible but I’m not good at citing specific Scripture off the top of my head. I can go bck and find all if I have to though.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:51 PM

Well, now it’s two of you who have no clue what GOProud is. Hilarious!

JetBoy on February 7, 2011 at 3:36 PM

I read what they wrote. You cherry-picked. Nice job of refuting what I said.

Responding to Lourdes well thought out and presented post:

Even if you tried, you couldn’t be more of an idiot. But keep on..keeping on.

JetBoy on February 7, 2011 at 3:45 PM

This is the way you “argue,” and then you accuse others of being intolerant of your point of view and engaging in insults. You refuted nothing of what Lourdes said about GOProud. You probably even believe that they are not a gay activist organization, through your typical ability to deny reality. How pathetic you are…and the people who support your denial are even worse.

I invite everyone to go to GOProud’s website and read EVERYTHING THERE, not just the cherry-picked portions that JetBoy posted here early in the thread. They are identified by their sexuality and they are promoting special rights for gays…but JetBoy is too, although he would no doubt deny that, as well.

JannyMae on February 7, 2011 at 4:51 PM

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:46 PM

The amendment and legislative process within the constitutional framework is as conservative as mom and apple pie.

Arguing for immorality in a nation founded as a Christian Republic is to overturn that Republic’s basis. Not a conservative position, certainly nothing that these gents would own:

“Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.” -Article III of the Northwest Ordinance (An Ordinance for the Government of the Territory of the United States, North-West of the River Ohio), enacted under the Articles of Confederation July 13th, 1787, and re-enacted under the Constitution on August 7, 1789.

“Laus Deo,” Latin for “Praise God.” -Inscribed on the eastern face of the apex of the Washington Monument in Washington, D.C., so placed as to be the first thing illuminated at sunrise in our nation’s capitol.

“Holiness unto the Lord,” Exodus 28:36. “Suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not; for such is the Kingdom of God,” St. Luke 18:16. “Search the Scriptures,” St. John 5:39. -Inscribed on the starircase walls inside the Washington Monument, Washington, D.C.

“Proclaim Liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof,” Leviticus 25:10. -Inscribed on the Libert Bell.

“In God we Trust.” -The official motto of the United States of America. It is found on the wall in the well of the U.S. Congress behind the seat of the Speaker of the House. It is also found in your wallet.

“Give up money, give up fame, give up science, give the earth itself and all it contains rather than do an immoral act. And never suppose that in any possible situation, or under any circumstances, it is best for you to do a dishonorable thing, however slightly so it may appear to you. Whenever you are to do a thing, though it can never be known but to yourself, ask yourself how you would act were all the world looking at you, and act accordingly. Encourage all your virtuous dispositions, and exercise them whenever an opportunity arises, being assured that they will gain strength by exercise, as a limb of the body does, and that exercise will make them habitual. From the practice of the purest virtue, you may be assured you will derive the most sublime comforts in every moment of life, and in the moment of death.” -Thomas Jefferson, Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Third President of the United States (The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Bergh, editor (Washington, D.C.: Thomas Jefferson Memorial Assoc., 1903), Vol. 5, pp. 82-83, in a letter to his nephew Peter Carr on August 19, 1785.)

“The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of mankind.” -Thomas Jefferson (The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Bergh, editor (Washington, D. C.: Thomas Jefferson Memorial Assoc., 1904), Vol. XV, p. 383.)

“I concur with the author in considering the moral precepts of Jesus as more pure, correct, and sublime than those of ancient philosophers.” -Thomas Jefferson (The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Bergh, editor (Washington, D. C.: Thomas Jefferson Memorial Assoc., 1904), Vol. X, pp. 376-377. In a letter to Edward Dowse on April 19, 1803.)

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever. Commerce between master and slave is despotism. Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people are to be free. Establish a law for educating the common people. This it is the business of the state and on a general plan.” -The Jefferson Memorial, Washington, D.C.

“Almighty God hath created the mind free. All attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens . . . are a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of our religion . . . No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship or ministry or shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion. I know but one code of morality for men whether acting singly or collectively.” -The Jefferson Memorial, Washington, D.C.

“Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” -John Jay, First Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court and co-author of the Federalist Papers, letter to Jedidiah Morse, 28 Feb 1797.

“The Americans are the first people whom Heaven has favored with an opportunity of deliberating upon and choosing the forms of government under which they should live.” -John Jay (The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed. (New York: G.P. Putnams Sons, 1890), Vol. I, p. 161.)

“What doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, love mercy and walk humbly with thy God,” Micah 6:8. “The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth His handywork,” Psalm 19:1. “The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not,” St. John 1:5. “Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and withall thy getting, get understanding,” Proverbs 4:7. -On the walls of the Library of Congress, Washington, D.C.

“One God, one Law, one element, and faroff Divine event to which the whole creation moves.” -Alfred Lord Tennyson, in the rotunda of the Library of Congress.

“The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits,” 2 St. Timothy 2:6. -Inscribed on the front of the Department of Agriculture, Washington, D.C.

“The only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.” -Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration of Independence (Benjamin Rush, Essays, Literary, Moral and Philosophical (Philadelphia: Thomas and William Bradford, 1806), p. 8.)

“We profess to be republicans, and yet we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government, that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by the means of the Bible. For this Divine Book, above all others, favors that equality among mankind, that respect for just laws, and those sober and frugal virtues, which constitute the soul of republicanism.” -Benjamin Rush (Benjamin Rush, Essays, Literary, Moral and Philosophical (Philadelphia: Printed by Thomas and William Bradford, 1806), pp. 93-94.)

“By renouncing the Bible, philosophers swing from their moorings upon all moral subjects. . . . It is the only correct map of the human heart that ever has been published. . . . All systems of religion, morals, and government not founded upon it [the Bible] must perish, and how consoling the thought, it will not only survive the wreck of these systems but the world itself. ‘The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.’ [Matthew 1:18]” -Benjamin Rush (Letters of Benjamin Rush, L. H. Butterfield, editor (Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 1951), p. 936, to John Adams, January 23, 1807.)

“Remember that national crimes require national punishments, and without declaring what punishment awaits this evil, you may venture to assure them that it cannot pass with impunity, unless God shall cease to be just or merciful.” -Benjamin Rush (Benjamin Rush, An Address to the Inhabitants of the British Settlements in America Upon Slave-Keeping (Boston: John Boyles, 1773), p. 30.)

“The American population is entirely Christian, and with us Christianity and Religion are identified. It would be strange indeed, if with such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity, and did not often refer to it, and exhibit relations with it.” -John Marshall, in a letter to Jasper Adams, May 9, 1833, JSAC, p. 139. Marshall was Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court from 1801-1835.

“The real object of the [First] Amendment was not to countenance, much less advance, Mahometanism, or Judaism, or infidelity by prostrating Christianity; but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects.” -Joseph Story, Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court 1811-1845, founder of Harvard Law School, Commentaries on the Constitution, Vol. II, 1871 (1833).

“Christianity becomes not merely an auxiliary, but a guide, to the law of nature; establishing its conclusions, removing its doubts, and evaluating its precepts.” -Joseph Story, “The Value and Importance of Legal Studies,” a lecture delivered August 25, 1829 at his inauguration as Dane Professor of Law in Harvard University, cited in James McClellan, Joseph Story and the American Constitution (Norman, OK: University of Oklahoma, 1971), p. 66.

“[P]ublic utility pleads most forcibly for the general distribution of the Holy Scriptures. The doctrine they preach, the obligations they impose, the punishment they threaten, the rewards they promise, the stamp and image of divinity they bear, which produces a conviction of their truths, can alone secure to society, order and peace, and to our courts of justice and constitutions of government, purity, stability and usefulness. In vain, without the Bible, we increase penal laws and draw entrenchments around our institutions. Bibles are strong entrenchments. Where they abound, men cannot pursue wicked courses, and at the same time enjoy quiet conscience.” -James McHenry, Signer of the Constitution (Bernard C. Steiner, One Hundred and Ten Years of Bible Society Work in Maryland, 1810-1920 (Maryland Bible Society, 1921), p. 14.)

“No free government now exists in the world, unless where Christianity is acknowledged, and is the religion of the country.” -Pennsylvania Supreme Court, 1824. Updegraph v. Commonwealth; 11 Serg. & R. 393, 406.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:52 PM

Ignore this heritage at your peril.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:53 PM

I agree. I think your potential for idiocy has not yet been explored.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM

And since this type of ad hominem and deflection is your sole form of argument, I’d say you’ve got the lock on idiocy, MadisonLiberal.

Just keep accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being a crazy hater. It’s working so well for you, why would you change now?

JannyMae on February 7, 2011 at 4:54 PM

Since you think the word conservatism literally applies to every facet of the ideology it labels, what you think matters even less. MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:46 PM

I’m certain it doesn’t apply to you.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:55 PM

So we understand that your position is based on a mythology a divinely inspired Book that is backed up with much historical evidence I believe with all my heart.

Great. Now how do we proceed with rational debate? Give me the basis of your beliefs…

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 4:32 PM

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:48 PM

I might as well try to argue with a devout Hindu that the Rigveda might not all be true. It’d be just as useful a waste of time.

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 4:55 PM

Ronald Wilson Reagan –

Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged.

If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under.

Within the covers of the Bible are the answers for all the problems men face.

Without God, democracy will not and cannot long endure.

We are never defeated unless we give up on God.

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 4:56 PM

I agree. I think your potential for idiocy has not yet been explored.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM

MadCon, you have made my day!
think Hornet Sting should give back your walker and buy you a nicebottle of single malt.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 4:57 PM

This is the way you “argue,” and then you accuse others of being intolerant of your point of view and engaging in insults.

JannyMae on February 7, 2011 at 4:51 PM

Lourdes started insulting JetBoy pages back. Stop being a hypocrite, if that’s possible for you.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:58 PM

Please share some of these inaccuracies and contradictions with us. Thanks.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:40 PM

Throughout this whole discussion with him he has not linked one article or cited anything other than his own opinion which he states as facts. You know it is because he says so… We at least have the Bible and Historical records and evidence to back up what we say. He is just lazy and disagreeble and can’t appreciate someone who treats him with a little respect.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:58 PM

“Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God,” 1 Corinthians 6.

“Oh that’s a bunch of bull,” -CPAC.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM

So lesbians are OK?

BTW , the listing captures most of DC.

the_nile on February 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 3:44 PM

It’s a great tactic:

“Homosexuality is a sin, because the Bible, which is axiomatically infallible, says so. End of debate, I win.”

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 3:54 PM

To persons such as yourself, whose entire perspective is limited to “it feels good and it’s natural and you’re wrong and I don’t care”, then I guess that’s what you think the position of others can be boiled down to as you just deceitfully proclaimed mine was.

There are many a social and political (and moral and spiritual) lie told to wage homosexuality, the list is a long one, but here are a few:

(1.) “It’s natural.”

No, never mind that it isn’t, just repeat that claim over and over again and you’ll eventually assume everyone thinks the same thing because, well, that’s what everyone keeps repeating over and over again;

(2.) “I was born that way.”

No, you were not. You were born either male or female and those two genders are two halves of a heterosexual biology; your behavioral choices later in life long after birth occurred were yours by way of social influences;

(3.) “Homosexuality is equivalent with heterosexuality.”

No, it is not. Heterosexuality is what your body, either male or female, is engineered to engage in; homosexuality is behavioral as influenced abnormally by environment and state of mind in response to environment;

(4.) “Homosexuality is normal” (again).

No, no it isn’t. The intestines were created for and designed to be for the ingestion and digestion of food and elimination of waste material; the intestinal tract is not part of your genitalia.

…I REALIZE when some persons are surrounded by influences that those influences tend to sway one’s perspectives. Having worked around many a person who engages in homosexuality, I am familiar with the rationalizations, the bitterness about others, the jealousy, the gossip intended to wound and destroy others, the poor health that results from much of the behaviors engaged in by those, the animosity about and toward Christians and Christian morality and theology…the denigration, particularly, of anyone in their midst who isn’t homosexual and isn’t available to hear about it more often than rain…

If God tells you not to do something, that if you do something, that it will bring His judgement upon you and that’s not a beneficial thing for your future if not present, then why do it?

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM

“Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God,” 1 Corinthians 6.

“Oh that’s a bunch of bull,” -CPAC.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM

So, there would’ve been no Reagan or Gingrich or Romney (whose great wealth “greed” covers, I guess).

Palin is sensible. It’s ironic how she’s painted as some far-right wacko. If people voted only on issues, Palin would win 50 of 50 states.

ddrintn on February 7, 2011 at 5:00 PM

That’s outdated. The Documentary Hypothesis is now generally accepted, suggesting at least four different authors. One is thought to be by Aaronid priests, but none by Moses.

alwaysfiredup on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

I’ve never heard of this and generally accepted by whom? If you would provide a link so I can see who this is before I accept anything from it I would appreciate it.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 5:00 PM

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:52 PM

As long as we have a Government of, by and for the People…

And as long as People continue to think…

We have a Government based on beliefs.

The first amendment only serves to protect the beliefs of people from Government. It doesn’t work the other way around. Any attempt to separate “belief” from government is usually just an attempt to prevent a particular belief from having a fair turn in political discourse. Now why would anyone want to do that?

Dumbcollegekid on February 7, 2011 at 5:01 PM

I’m certain it doesn’t apply to you.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:55 PM

You make that determination based on either my being non-Christian, or by my not having the same position as you on gay marriage. On damn near every other issue, my comments and GR posts speak for themselves as to my conservatism. Which is it? I’d just like to know so I can figure out whether you’re merely a religious bigot or a single-issue voter.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:01 PM

So lesbians are OK?

BTW , the listing captures most of DC.

the_nile on February 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM

You already know the answer to that, so you’re asking these questions rhetorically, yes?

Lesbians are people engaged in homosexual behavior.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:01 PM

(2.) “I was born that way.”

No, you were not.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM

Prove it.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:02 PM

So, there would’ve been no Reagan or Gingrich or Romney (whose great wealth “greed” covers, I guess).

ddrintn on February 7, 2011 at 5:00 PM

Note that the person you’re addressing clearly stated that they would have no problem with adultery being outlawed in all 50 states.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:03 PM

On damn near every other issue, my comments and GR posts speak for themselves as to my conservatism…

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:01 PM

You honestly don’t realize how ridiculous you appear to many others. You do not, I repeat, DO NOT “speak for themselves as to (your) conservativism…”

What you do is represent someone playing a game as in, being false, which works toward ridiculing the term, “conservativism.” There are many a Libertarian/Liberal who does the same as you do.

You’re not a Conservative. Your behavior, views, perspectives are not those of a Conservative. Hone up to it and start from there and you’ll start gaining a bit of respect from others for at least being lucid.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:04 PM

Lesbians are people engaged in homosexual behavior.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:01 PM

What , the quoted text just complains about male homosexuality.

the_nile on February 7, 2011 at 5:06 PM

If God tells you not to do something, that if you do something, that it will bring His judgement upon you and that’s not a beneficial thing for your future if not present, then why do it?

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM

Frankly I personally find homosexuality naturally repellent. I just don’t find arguments based on religion compelling in a political context, since we don’t all share the same religion.

That was my point.

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 5:06 PM

You’re not a Conservative. Your behavior, views, perspectives are not those of a Conservative.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:04 PM

Is that how the mind of the deranged works? You just keep repeating whatever you can cook up long enough, and you think it will become true?

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:06 PM

(2.) “I was born that way.”

No, you were not.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM

Prove it.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:02 PM

Did you spring forth from your mother’s womb demanding show tunes and leather pants with a number of “garnishes” for “entertainment purposes” later? Did you ask the pediatrician who cleaned you up for “other things” afterward?

No human being is “born gay”. That’s the most insulting statement I’ve ever heard about human beings. It’s something out of Mental Illness 101.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:06 PM

Is that how the mind of the deranged works? You just keep repeating whatever you can cook up long enough, and you think it will become true?

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:06 PM

You’re a cad and a crude, disgusting individual. You make this site feel sticky and sick. Leave it at that, you are viewed by many as a clown and a sick person.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:08 PM

Funny.I have a great deal of respect for MadCon.Others,not so much.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:08 PM

Funny.I have a great deal of respect for MadCon.Others,not so much.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:08 PM

Why is that “funny”? I think it’s very sad. But predictable. And still very sad.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:09 PM

Did you spring forth from your mother’s womb demanding show tunes and leather pants with a number of “garnishes” for “entertainment purposes” later? Did you ask the pediatrician who cleaned you up for “other things” afterward?

No. I came to a political website where some brainless cretin was saying things like “you’re not conservative” and “people are never born gay” with no evidence to back it up, and told them to provide more proof of their claims than the same posterior from which they extracted those statements.

No human being is “born gay”.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:06 PM

Prove it.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:09 PM

You make this site feel sticky and sick. Leave it at that, you are viewed by many as a clown and a sick person.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:08 PM

Good lord. You’ve quite the fixation, haven’t you?

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:10 PM

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM

Frankly I personally find homosexuality naturally repellent. I just don’t find arguments based on religion compelling in a political context, since we don’t all share the same religion.

That was my point.

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 5:06 PM

O.K.

Point I agree with and well recognize. The responses by Christians and other actual Conservatives is almost routinely just that: responses. If the arrows weren’t shot, others would not respond by repelling them. Not you, just saying, that’s where religion enters into things, this issue particularly…AND why GOProud’s goals and behavior have been quite so disgusting, attempting to eliminate “social conservative issues” entirely from the GOP and now working toward that end along with available, hapless Libertarians who share their disgust for Social Conservative issues — meaning, Christians and Christianity.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:12 PM

Ignore this heritage at your peril.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:53 PM

You will not get one response that isn’t sarcasm, snark or misdirection from Good Lt Count, Jet, Dark etc… neither will Lourdes, Kingjester and Dumbcollegekid who all present facts and point out the truth about this natons founding and God’s word. As a matter of fact the truth as presented will kill the thread for them.

These people need to understand that HOt Air is not Daily Kos or HuffPost where they can scream all day long what they want to hear and there is no one there with whom to disagree or agrue…they aren’t used to being presented with facts, an intelligent argument or evidence and don’t know how to do anything intelligent in a debate. They resort to lies and obfucations and high fiving each other whn they think they have “scored” against one of us.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 5:12 PM

You make this site feel sticky and sick. Leave it at that, you are viewed by many as a clown and a sick person.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:08 PM

Good lord. You’ve quite the fixation, haven’t you?

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:10 PM

What? “Fixation”? What? You assume anyone casting your creepiness aside represents “fixation”? THAT IS EXACTLY WHY YOU WEAR A CLOWN COSTUME, because you’re sick like that.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:13 PM

Although there is no mention of the research that influenced this new position statement, it is clear that efforts to ‘prove’ that homosexuality is simply a biological fait accompli have failed.

The activist researchers themselves have reluctantly reached that conclusion. There is no gay gene. There is no simple biological pathway to homosexuality.

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 5:14 PM

Good lord.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:10 PM

“Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain.”

Ten Commandments. Even Moses respected that as he also respected God and honored those Commandments. Just not you.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:16 PM

Gee,wonder who said that “Hate the sin,not the sinner “thing?
Whole lot ofhatin’going on here.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:16 PM

Although there is no mention of the research that influenced this new position statement, it is clear that efforts to ‘prove’ that homosexuality is simply a biological fait accompli have failed.

The activist researchers themselves have reluctantly reached that conclusion. There is no gay gene. There is no simple biological pathway to homosexuality.

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 5:14 PM

Yes, as in, DITTO.

No “gay gene,” no “inherent cause” of homosexual behavior, nothing that defines “born that way” as correct or accurate biology or even “belief.” Not one bit of science to support that assertion.

What I hear in retort, however, is more ridiculous rationalization that tries to blame the environment of the womb for “it”…it’ll never stop because sin relies on it’s lies to exist.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:18 PM

hapless Libertarians who share their disgust for Social Conservative issues — meaning, Christians and Christianity.

Jews on your hate list too? Interesting.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:18 PM

This has lost its amusement factor. Attention: when you want to exclude groups from CPAC, and by extension, the conservative movement, based on their disagreement over a single subset of social issues, you are practicing one simple, overused liberal argument:

“Shut up.”

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:18 PM

Gee,wonder who said that “Hate the sin,not the sinner “thing?
Whole lot ofhatin’going on here.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:16 PM

Yes, you and your Gossip Train companions are really into that, I agree. Gossip is sin, by the way.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:19 PM

I might as well try to argue with a devout Hindu that the Rigveda might not all be true. It’d be just as useful a waste of time.

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 4:55 PM

go ahead…

Oh and I notice that since you have no basis for what you beleive you can’t give it.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 5:20 PM

This has lost its amusement factor. Attention: when you want to exclude groups from CPAC, and by extension, the conservative movement, based on their disagreement over a single subset of social issues, you are practicing one simple, overused liberal argument:

“Shut up.”

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:18 PM

Do you even understand that it was GOProud who first advised that “social conservatives” and “social conservative issues” BE EXCLUDED FROM THE GOP’s party platform AND from campaigning 2012? AND WHO ridiculed openly Social Conservatives trying to speak their opinions at CPAC10? You do understand that, don’t you?

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:21 PM

“Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain.”

Ten Commandments. Even Moses respected that as he also respected God and honored those Commandments. Just not you.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:16 PM

I’m agnostic. Your religious rules don’t apply to me, nor do anyone else’s.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:21 PM

hapless Libertarians who share their disgust for Social Conservative issues — meaning, Christians and Christianity.

Jews on your hate list too? Interesting.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:18 PM

Oh, please, not this again.

If anyone sins, they sin. If they’re Jewish, or not Jewish, it’s still sin. That’s what the Bible – including the Hebrew Bible, Old Testament — says.

You should try your hatefest with God Himself. Go ahead, present your hatefulness and hate complaints to God and argue them out with Him. I think you need His help.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:22 PM

So lesbians are OK?

BTW , the listing captures most of DC.

the_nile on February 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM

No… that’s addressed in Romans 8

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 5:22 PM

I’m agnostic. Your religious rules don’t apply to me, nor do anyone else’s.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:21 PM

No one is surprised by your ongoing Crazy Clown madness.

Mad Con to God: “I don’t believe in you so, hey, wait, I said I didn’t believe in you so, what, wait, noooooo…”

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:24 PM

Do you even understand that it was GOProud who first advised that “social conservatives” and “social conservative issues” BE EXCLUDED FROM THE GOP’s party platform AND from campaigning 2012? AND WHO ridiculed openly Social Conservatives trying to speak their opinions at CPAC10? You do understand that, don’t you?

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:21 PM

So f**king what? Mitch Daniels said the same thing. Ann Coulter sided with GOProud. Doesn’t mean they should be shut out of CPAC because you disagree with them. I disagree with them, too. However, my views aren’t on such shaky ground that I’m threatened by a group that agrees with me 90%+ of the time.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:25 PM

No one is surprised by your ongoing Crazy Clown madness.

Mad Con to God: “I don’t believe in you so, hey, wait, I said I didn’t believe in you so, what, wait, noooooo…”

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:24 PM

I’m not surprised by your religious bigotry. Thankfully, I know better than to judge Christianity by the few bad apples like you.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:26 PM

You should try your hatefest with God Himself. Go ahead, present your hatefulness and hate complaints to God and argue them out with Him. I think you need His help.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:22 PM

No hatefest from me.Perhaps you should read your comments today. After you sober up of course. A perfect plethora of pique.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:26 PM

Oh and I notice that since you have no basis for what you beleive you can’t give it.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 5:20 PM

I base everything I believe on the Flower Sermon.

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 5:30 PM

DADT works in my personal life.

Caststeel on February 7, 2011 at 5:31 PM

You’re still a liar.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:43 PM

I agree. I think your potential for idiocy has not yet been explored.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM

I bet you have really, really bad breath. You really hate people, don’t you, I mean, really, really hate them if and when they’re Christian, don’t you?

Jesus saves. Confess your sins, accept Christ as your Savior, and repent your sins, Mad Con.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:32 PM

Liking Palin even more…and I can’t wait for the meltdown among some here.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 10:14 AM

MadCon…the Prophet

CTSherman on February 7, 2011 at 5:32 PM

Getting all pious up here in dis piece, y0

Jeddite on February 7, 2011 at 5:34 PM

I bet you have really, really bad breath.

It appears right4life has a brother that can at least spell correctly, use capitalization and punctuation, and go five minutes without calling people who disagrees with him “fascist”.

I mean, really, really hate them if and when they’re Christian, don’t you?

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:32 PM

I haven’t said a single derogatory thing about Christians. I respect and admire Christianity more than other religions, and most of its adherents. Once again, you know so much that isn’t so.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:36 PM

No hatefest from me.Perhaps you should read your comments today. After you sober up of course. A perfect plethora of pique.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:26 PM

What? You think THAT is not hateful, what you wrote there and have continued to wretch here for hours on end today?

You can’t see your own hatefulness: suggesting “Jews” are “on my hate list” and now suggesting I “sober up” and more…

That’s about as sick and hateful as any sick and hateful wretch ever gets, that’s you. You’re attracted to other sick and hateful individuals, you feel confident amidst the sick and hateful.

I don’t drink and have long maintained here that I don’t. Sorry to burst your little hateful puss filled delusions, but you’re sick and owe me and many others here an apology. I assume you understand what an apology is…wait, I now doubt that you do.

Please get yourself some sort of pills and avoid public contact as much as possible and limit your sickness from spreading all through the land with your crazed, nasty rants. Nasty, nasty, nasty. I think the Green Room is padded so you and Mad Con should feel comfortable there and not threatened by the sane world out here.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:36 PM

Getting all pious up here in dis piece, y0

Jeddite on February 7, 2011 at 5:34 PM

And giving true piety a bad rap.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:37 PM

I haven’t said a single derogatory thing about Christians. I respect and admire Christianity more than other religions, and most of its adherents. Once again, you know so much that isn’t so.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:36 PM

A very loud laugh has just rumbled throughout the nation among those who have read the 5:36 PM rant by Mad Con.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:37 PM

And giving true piety a bad rap.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:37 PM

Many a psychiatrist and more than a few priests would find your definition of “true peity” interesting. Can you enunciate what you mean by “true piety”, in a form that does not employ anti-social delusions and pettiness in disrespect of the beliefs of others?

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:39 PM

This thread is EPIC. It has the Best & Worst of HotAir all rolled into One.

It’s like a Burrito with Alot of Guacamole, but not enough Meat.

portlandon on February 7, 2011 at 5:40 PM

Frankly, I wouldn’t want to go to a CPAC without GOProud and other gay-conservative groups. Out of all combinations of every sexuality/political mash-up, gay-conservatives are the cream of the crop.

Aquateen Hungerforce on February 7, 2011 at 5:41 PM

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:24 PM

I’m not surprised by your religious bigotry. Thankfully, I know better than to judge Christianity by the few bad apples like you.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:26 PM

Now it’s “religious bigotry” about those you revile? You, the atheist? I’m not sure there’s much to any evidence on this entire comment stream that supports your *suddenly pious clown costume* you’ve just donned.

The site is continually made sticky and sick by you, Mad Con. I’ve said my piece.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:43 PM

Palin defends GOProud participation at CPACShare36posted at 10:12 am on February 7, 2011 by Ed Morrissey
printer-friendly No great surprise here, really; Palin has quietly backed the end of DADT and expressed support for conservative gays and lesbians in the past. Speaking here with David Brody from the Christian Broadcast Network and excerpted by Breitbart TV, Palin doesn’t endorse GOProud but does defend their attendance at CPAC, and argues that the value of events such as CPAC is to debate the issues and provide as much information as possible to attendees:

Well, I’ve never attended a CPAC conference ever so I was a little taken aback this go around when I couldn’t make it to this one either and then there was a speculation well I either agree or disagree with some of the groups or issues that CPAC is discussing. It really is a matter of time for me. But when it comes to and David, perhaps what it is that you’re suggesting in the question is should the GOP, should conservatives not reach out to others, not participate in events or forums that perhaps are rising within those forums are issues that maybe we don’t personally agree with? And I say no, it’s like you being on a panel shoot, with a bunch of the liberal folks whom you have been on and you provide good information and balance, and you allow for healthy debate, which is needed in order for people to gather information and make up their own minds about issues.
I look at participation in an event like CPAC or any other event, along, or kind of in that same vein as the more information that people have, the better.
I’m not sure we’ve polled on this question at all, so this seems like a good time to do so. Should conservatives welcome GOProud, or should they skip CPAC if GOProud participates?

Should conservative groups boycott CPAC over GOProud participation?
Yes, definitely

Donors to groups should make that decision

Since GOProud isn’t sponsoring, it’s not necessary

We should welcome any groups that broadly agree on conservative policy goals

Unsure/no opinion

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Comment pages: « Previous 1 … 6 7 8

…The problem I’m having in answering these questions is the shadow of conflict between speaking the truth in love (i.e. Sex outside of the heterosexual marriage is unnatural and wrong) and Paul’s teachings in 1 Corinthians 5:9-13. According to his letter to the church at Corinth, judgement of the non-Christian is reserved to God, while condemnation of the sins of those in the church is an accepted institution of tough love. Dumbcollegekid on February 7, 2011 at 4:20 PM
The reservation of judgement of the non-Christian to God isn’t a request to not identify sin or call it what it is.

Identifying sin and turning away from it is not “judgement” of the soul of non-Christians, it is doing what God asks of us (to turn away from sin and to know what sin is, and to call it what it is and not involve in it and if so, to repent from it and disengage from it).

So the non-Christian and even some Christians wrongly libel Christ, Christians and Christianity as somehow “judging” people or “condemning” those who engage in what we know to be sin.

It’s not Christians who are condemning most who engage in sin and certainly we are not those who are harming those who do, yet that’s the lie about Christians, unfortunately.

What I think this springs from is that when a person is engaged in sin, they do make sinful declarations especially about those who identify the sin. That includes non-Christians and Christians alike.

I believe that Christ’s incident of casting out the legion of demons from the man (Mark 5) wherein the man cried out to Christ first, that he/they knew who He was AND that they didn’t want Him to “torment” them…I think this is the issue with sin as to metaphor for it: when it’s identified, the sin knows it’s situation and cries out to not be “cast out” or “tormented” and knows Christ and Christ’s commands to the contrary. Thus, Christ IS recognized but feared and “the sin” fears being sent away to the obvious destination.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:36 PM

It’s supposed to be agreement on principle, while issues in contention are shelved, as opposed to Democrats, where the only principle is that everybody should get service on their favorite issue.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:33 PM
Gay marriage is effectively shelved. Nobody runs on it. States have been holding votes. The issue at hand is whether a group that agrees on principle with conservatives should be excluded from CPAC because of that relatively minor issue that only seems to really rile passions on the internet. If anything, I thought the conservative principle was not “shut up”.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:37 PM

Benjamin Franklin at the Congressional Congress, 1787

I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth–that God Governs the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?

We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that “except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it.” I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by Human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.

I therefore beg leave to move–that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessing on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service.
kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 4:38 PM

Even though I am not a proponent of gay marriage, I can’t help but think that way too much emphasis is being put on sex. People are willing to give or withhold things from others based on sex? It seems very odd to me.

Cindy Munford on February 7, 2011 at 4:38 PM

Though I guess the official line is that Genesis somehow comes from Moses.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:12 PM
That’s what the Jews believe as well… what is your point?

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:38 PM

I thought the conservative principle was not “shut up”.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:37 PM

It isn’t.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 7, 2011 at 4:39 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on February 7, 2011 at 4:39 PM

It isn’t ‘shut up’.
Sorry Mad Con.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 7, 2011 at 4:40 PM

Why?

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:36 PM

Because, without prooff, that assertion is simply a theory. Atheists insist that Christians prove that God is real. Goose/gander, etc.

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 4:40 PM

You’re just reciting what a 2000+ year-old book says, no matter how much it contradicts itself, no matter how ridiculous it is, no matter what’s inaccurate in it and no matter what it says. Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:02 PM
Please share some of these inaccuracies and contradictions with us. Thanks.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:40 PM

Though I guess the official line is that Genesis somehow comes from Moses.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:12 PM

That’s what the Jews believe as well… what is your point?

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:38 PM
That’s outdated. The Documentary Hypothesis is now generally accepted, suggesting at least four different authors. One is thought to be by Aaronid priests, but none by Moses.

alwaysfiredup on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:40 PM

And don’t forget to cite your sources.

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

If anything, I thought the conservative principle was not “shut up”. MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:37 PM
Well, since you think conservatism should conserve things that never existed, what you thought matters little.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 4:40 PM
True or false, myth accurately describes it.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

And don’t forget to cite your sources.
kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM
His sources will be atheist web sites he’s frantically pillaging as I type.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 3:40 PM
Even if you tried, you couldn’t be more of an idiot. But keep on..keeping on.

JetBoy on February 7, 2011 at 3:45 PM
You’re still a liar.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:43 PM

Wow, Sarah Palin on Hot Air? Does Hot Air send Sarah Palin checks for the business she drives their way???

She simply says they have a right to have their opinion heard! She doesn’t support overturning a few thousand years of history on marriage. The whole concept is silly and not even worth the time of the debate. The ship is sinking and people are debating whether gay Ben can wear his glittering dress in the lifeboat. Face your enemy.

Africanus on February 7, 2011 at 4:44 PM

CWA’s Penny Nance Responds to GOProud Letter — 11/15/10 by Concerned Women of America
http://www.cwfa.org/content.asp?id=19651

…that has a link to the notorious “letter to the GOP” from GOProud in which they asked that “social issues” be excluded from the GOP.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:24 PM
I’m trying to get through this thread so I can go back and read the links.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:44 PM

True or false, myth accurately describes it.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

That’s simply your opinion.

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 4:44 PM

Well, since you think conservatism should conserve things that never existed, what you thought matters little.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM
So being for a balanced budget amendment is not conservative? After all, it never existed. How about a federal marriage amendment? How about term limits?

Since you think the word conservatism literally applies to every facet of the ideology it labels, what you think matters even less.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:46 PM

True or false, myth accurately describes it.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

Even some Christians-myself included-take much of the Bible as God-inspired allegory-not something to be taking literally.
I believe in evolution-and God is the who to caused things to evolve.
It’s more than a ‘myth’-but there are different schools within Christianity-and Judaism- as to the proper way to interpret it.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 7, 2011 at 4:46 PM

I don’t believe for a second that our founding father’s asked us to divorce culture and law. It doesn’t make much sense to believe that a world-view defining belief could ever not have at least a formative influence on policy.

Dumbcollegekid on February 7, 2011 at 4:32 PM

That is the heart of the first amendment, as well as the limitation of federal power.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:35 PM
It took me a while to understand that you were disagreeing since we both look at the First Amendment as supportive evidence.

Question: So when the men who founded our country argued for the first concepts of basic human rights, they never pulled any material from any non-political ideology?

The issue is not should belief shape policy but rather of the possibility of shaping policy absent belief of any sort.

Impossible.

Dumbcollegekid on February 7, 2011 at 4:46 PM

“Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God,” 1 Corinthians 6.

“Oh that’s a bunch of bull,” -CPAC.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM

You’re still a liar.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:43 PM
I agree. I think your potential for idiocy has not yet been explored.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM

So we understand that your position is based on a mythology a divinely inspired Book that is backed up with much historical evidence I believe with all my heart.

Great. Now how do we proceed with rational debate? Give me the basis of your beliefs…

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 4:32 PM

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:48 PM

True or false, myth accurately describes it.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM
…did you really miss that contradiction?

If something is true, how is it a myth?

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:48 PM

So being for a balanced budget amendment is not conservative? After all, it never existed. How about a federal marriage amendment? How about term limits?

Since you think the word conservatismconserve literally applies to every facet of the ideology it labels, what you think matters even less.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:46 PM
*sigh* Long day.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:50 PM

I believe that Christ’s incident of casting out the legion of demons from the man (Mark 5) wherein the man cried out to Christ first, that he/they knew who He was AND that they didn’t want Him to “torment” them…I think this is the issue with sin as to metaphor for it: when it’s identified, the sin knows it’s situation and cries out to not be “cast out” or “tormented” and knows Christ and Christ’s commands to the contrary. Thus, Christ IS recognized but feared and “the sin” fears being sent away to the obvious destination.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:36 PM
This is good (the whole post actually) I know what is in the Bible but I’m not good at citing specific Scripture off the top of my head. I can go bck and find all if I have to though.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:51 PM

Well, now it’s two of you who have no clue what GOProud is. Hilarious!

JetBoy on February 7, 2011 at 3:36 PM
I read what they wrote. You cherry-picked. Nice job of refuting what I said.

Responding to Lourdes well thought out and presented post:

Even if you tried, you couldn’t be more of an idiot. But keep on..keeping on.

JetBoy on February 7, 2011 at 3:45 PM
This is the way you “argue,” and then you accuse others of being intolerant of your point of view and engaging in insults. You refuted nothing of what Lourdes said about GOProud. You probably even believe that they are not a gay activist organization, through your typical ability to deny reality. How pathetic you are…and the people who support your denial are even worse.

I invite everyone to go to GOProud’s website and read EVERYTHING THERE, not just the cherry-picked portions that JetBoy posted here early in the thread. They are identified by their sexuality and they are promoting special rights for gays…but JetBoy is too, although he would no doubt deny that, as well.

JannyMae on February 7, 2011 at 4:51 PM

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:46 PM
The amendment and legislative process within the constitutional framework is as conservative as mom and apple pie.

Arguing for immorality in a nation founded as a Christian Republic is to overturn that Republic’s basis. Not a conservative position, certainly nothing that these gents would own:

“Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.” -Article III of the Northwest Ordinance (An Ordinance for the Government of the Territory of the United States, North-West of the River Ohio), enacted under the Articles of Confederation July 13th, 1787, and re-enacted under the Constitution on August 7, 1789.

“Laus Deo,” Latin for “Praise God.” -Inscribed on the eastern face of the apex of the Washington Monument in Washington, D.C., so placed as to be the first thing illuminated at sunrise in our nation’s capitol.

“Holiness unto the Lord,” Exodus 28:36. “Suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not; for such is the Kingdom of God,” St. Luke 18:16. “Search the Scriptures,” St. John 5:39. -Inscribed on the starircase walls inside the Washington Monument, Washington, D.C.

“Proclaim Liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof,” Leviticus 25:10. -Inscribed on the Libert Bell.

“In God we Trust.” -The official motto of the United States of America. It is found on the wall in the well of the U.S. Congress behind the seat of the Speaker of the House. It is also found in your wallet.

“Give up money, give up fame, give up science, give the earth itself and all it contains rather than do an immoral act. And never suppose that in any possible situation, or under any circumstances, it is best for you to do a dishonorable thing, however slightly so it may appear to you. Whenever you are to do a thing, though it can never be known but to yourself, ask yourself how you would act were all the world looking at you, and act accordingly. Encourage all your virtuous dispositions, and exercise them whenever an opportunity arises, being assured that they will gain strength by exercise, as a limb of the body does, and that exercise will make them habitual. From the practice of the purest virtue, you may be assured you will derive the most sublime comforts in every moment of life, and in the moment of death.” -Thomas Jefferson, Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Third President of the United States (The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Bergh, editor (Washington, D.C.: Thomas Jefferson Memorial Assoc., 1903), Vol. 5, pp. 82-83, in a letter to his nephew Peter Carr on August 19, 1785.)

“The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of mankind.” -Thomas Jefferson (The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Bergh, editor (Washington, D. C.: Thomas Jefferson Memorial Assoc., 1904), Vol. XV, p. 383.)

“I concur with the author in considering the moral precepts of Jesus as more pure, correct, and sublime than those of ancient philosophers.” -Thomas Jefferson (The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Bergh, editor (Washington, D. C.: Thomas Jefferson Memorial Assoc., 1904), Vol. X, pp. 376-377. In a letter to Edward Dowse on April 19, 1803.)

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever. Commerce between master and slave is despotism. Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than that these people are to be free. Establish a law for educating the common people. This it is the business of the state and on a general plan.” -The Jefferson Memorial, Washington, D.C.

“Almighty God hath created the mind free. All attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens . . . are a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of our religion . . . No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship or ministry or shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion. I know but one code of morality for men whether acting singly or collectively.” -The Jefferson Memorial, Washington, D.C.

“Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” -John Jay, First Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court and co-author of the Federalist Papers, letter to Jedidiah Morse, 28 Feb 1797.

“The Americans are the first people whom Heaven has favored with an opportunity of deliberating upon and choosing the forms of government under which they should live.” -John Jay (The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed. (New York: G.P. Putnams Sons, 1890), Vol. I, p. 161.)

“What doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, love mercy and walk humbly with thy God,” Micah 6:8. “The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth His handywork,” Psalm 19:1. “The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not,” St. John 1:5. “Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and withall thy getting, get understanding,” Proverbs 4:7. -On the walls of the Library of Congress, Washington, D.C.

“One God, one Law, one element, and faroff Divine event to which the whole creation moves.” -Alfred Lord Tennyson, in the rotunda of the Library of Congress.

“The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits,” 2 St. Timothy 2:6. -Inscribed on the front of the Department of Agriculture, Washington, D.C.

“The only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.” -Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration of Independence (Benjamin Rush, Essays, Literary, Moral and Philosophical (Philadelphia: Thomas and William Bradford, 1806), p. 8.)

“We profess to be republicans, and yet we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government, that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by the means of the Bible. For this Divine Book, above all others, favors that equality among mankind, that respect for just laws, and those sober and frugal virtues, which constitute the soul of republicanism.” -Benjamin Rush (Benjamin Rush, Essays, Literary, Moral and Philosophical (Philadelphia: Printed by Thomas and William Bradford, 1806), pp. 93-94.)

“By renouncing the Bible, philosophers swing from their moorings upon all moral subjects. . . . It is the only correct map of the human heart that ever has been published. . . . All systems of religion, morals, and government not founded upon it [the Bible] must perish, and how consoling the thought, it will not only survive the wreck of these systems but the world itself. ‘The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.’ [Matthew 1:18]” -Benjamin Rush (Letters of Benjamin Rush, L. H. Butterfield, editor (Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 1951), p. 936, to John Adams, January 23, 1807.)

“Remember that national crimes require national punishments, and without declaring what punishment awaits this evil, you may venture to assure them that it cannot pass with impunity, unless God shall cease to be just or merciful.” -Benjamin Rush (Benjamin Rush, An Address to the Inhabitants of the British Settlements in America Upon Slave-Keeping (Boston: John Boyles, 1773), p. 30.)

“The American population is entirely Christian, and with us Christianity and Religion are identified. It would be strange indeed, if with such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity, and did not often refer to it, and exhibit relations with it.” -John Marshall, in a letter to Jasper Adams, May 9, 1833, JSAC, p. 139. Marshall was Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court from 1801-1835.

“The real object of the [First] Amendment was not to countenance, much less advance, Mahometanism, or Judaism, or infidelity by prostrating Christianity; but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects.” -Joseph Story, Associate Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court 1811-1845, founder of Harvard Law School, Commentaries on the Constitution, Vol. II, 1871 (1833).

“Christianity becomes not merely an auxiliary, but a guide, to the law of nature; establishing its conclusions, removing its doubts, and evaluating its precepts.” -Joseph Story, “The Value and Importance of Legal Studies,” a lecture delivered August 25, 1829 at his inauguration as Dane Professor of Law in Harvard University, cited in James McClellan, Joseph Story and the American Constitution (Norman, OK: University of Oklahoma, 1971), p. 66.

“[P]ublic utility pleads most forcibly for the general distribution of the Holy Scriptures. The doctrine they preach, the obligations they impose, the punishment they threaten, the rewards they promise, the stamp and image of divinity they bear, which produces a conviction of their truths, can alone secure to society, order and peace, and to our courts of justice and constitutions of government, purity, stability and usefulness. In vain, without the Bible, we increase penal laws and draw entrenchments around our institutions. Bibles are strong entrenchments. Where they abound, men cannot pursue wicked courses, and at the same time enjoy quiet conscience.” -James McHenry, Signer of the Constitution (Bernard C. Steiner, One Hundred and Ten Years of Bible Society Work in Maryland, 1810-1920 (Maryland Bible Society, 1921), p. 14.)

“No free government now exists in the world, unless where Christianity is acknowledged, and is the religion of the country.” -Pennsylvania Supreme Court, 1824. Updegraph v. Commonwealth; 11 Serg. & R. 393, 406.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:52 PM

Ignore this heritage at your peril.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:53 PM

I agree. I think your potential for idiocy has not yet been explored.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM
And since this type of ad hominem and deflection is your sole form of argument, I’d say you’ve got the lock on idiocy, MadisonLiberal.

Just keep accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being a crazy hater. It’s working so well for you, why would you change now?

JannyMae on February 7, 2011 at 4:54 PM

Since you think the word conservatism literally applies to every facet of the ideology it labels, what you think matters even less. MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:46 PM
I’m certain it doesn’t apply to you.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:55 PM

So we understand that your position is based on a mythology a divinely inspired Book that is backed up with much historical evidence I believe with all my heart.

Great. Now how do we proceed with rational debate? Give me the basis of your beliefs…

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 4:32 PM

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:48 PM
I might as well try to argue with a devout Hindu that the Rigveda might not all be true. It’d be just as useful a waste of time.

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 4:55 PM

Ronald Wilson Reagan –

Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged.

If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under.

Within the covers of the Bible are the answers for all the problems men face.

Without God, democracy will not and cannot long endure.

We are never defeated unless we give up on God.
kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 4:56 PM

I agree. I think your potential for idiocy has not yet been explored.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM
MadCon, you have made my day!
think Hornet Sting should give back your walker and buy you a nicebottle of single malt.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 4:57 PM

This is the way you “argue,” and then you accuse others of being intolerant of your point of view and engaging in insults.

JannyMae on February 7, 2011 at 4:51 PM
Lourdes started insulting JetBoy pages back. Stop being a hypocrite, if that’s possible for you.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:58 PM

Please share some of these inaccuracies and contradictions with us. Thanks.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:40 PM
Throughout this whole discussion with him he has not linked one article or cited anything other than his own opinion which he states as facts. You know it is because he says so… We at least have the Bible and Historical records and evidence to back up what we say. He is just lazy and disagreeble and can’t appreciate someone who treats him with a little respect.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:58 PM

“Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God,” 1 Corinthians 6.

“Oh that’s a bunch of bull,” -CPAC.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM
So lesbians are OK?

BTW , the listing captures most of DC.

the_nile on February 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 3:44 PM
It’s a great tactic:

“Homosexuality is a sin, because the Bible, which is axiomatically infallible, says so. End of debate, I win.”

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 3:54 PM
To persons such as yourself, whose entire perspective is limited to “it feels good and it’s natural and you’re wrong and I don’t care”, then I guess that’s what you think the position of others can be boiled down to as you just deceitfully proclaimed mine was.

There are many a social and political (and moral and spiritual) lie told to wage homosexuality, the list is a long one, but here are a few:

(1.) “It’s natural.”

No, never mind that it isn’t, just repeat that claim over and over again and you’ll eventually assume everyone thinks the same thing because, well, that’s what everyone keeps repeating over and over again;

(2.) “I was born that way.”

No, you were not. You were born either male or female and those two genders are two halves of a heterosexual biology; your behavioral choices later in life long after birth occurred were yours by way of social influences;

(3.) “Homosexuality is equivalent with heterosexuality.”

No, it is not. Heterosexuality is what your body, either male or female, is engineered to engage in; homosexuality is behavioral as influenced abnormally by environment and state of mind in response to environment;

(4.) “Homosexuality is normal” (again).

No, no it isn’t. The intestines were created for and designed to be for the ingestion and digestion of food and elimination of waste material; the intestinal tract is not part of your genitalia.

…I REALIZE when some persons are surrounded by influences that those influences tend to sway one’s perspectives. Having worked around many a person who engages in homosexuality, I am familiar with the rationalizations, the bitterness about others, the jealousy, the gossip intended to wound and destroy others, the poor health that results from much of the behaviors engaged in by those, the animosity about and toward Christians and Christian morality and theology…the denigration, particularly, of anyone in their midst who isn’t homosexual and isn’t available to hear about it more often than rain…

If God tells you not to do something, that if you do something, that it will bring His judgement upon you and that’s not a beneficial thing for your future if not present, then why do it?

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM

“Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God,” 1 Corinthians 6.

“Oh that’s a bunch of bull,” -CPAC.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM
So, there would’ve been no Reagan or Gingrich or Romney (whose great wealth “greed” covers, I guess).

Palin is sensible. It’s ironic how she’s painted as some far-right wacko. If people voted only on issues, Palin would win 50 of 50 states.

ddrintn on February 7, 2011 at 5:00 PM

That’s outdated. The Documentary Hypothesis is now generally accepted, suggesting at least four different authors. One is thought to be by Aaronid priests, but none by Moses.

alwaysfiredup on February 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM
I’ve never heard of this and generally accepted by whom? If you would provide a link so I can see who this is before I accept anything from it I would appreciate it.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 5:00 PM

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:52 PM
As long as we have a Government of, by and for the People…

And as long as People continue to think…

We have a Government based on beliefs.

The first amendment only serves to protect the beliefs of people from Government. It doesn’t work the other way around. Any attempt to separate “belief” from government is usually just an attempt to prevent a particular belief from having a fair turn in political discourse. Now why would anyone want to do that?

Dumbcollegekid on February 7, 2011 at 5:01 PM

I’m certain it doesn’t apply to you.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:55 PM
You make that determination based on either my being non-Christian, or by my not having the same position as you on gay marriage. On damn near every other issue, my comments and GR posts speak for themselves as to my conservatism. Which is it? I’d just like to know so I can figure out whether you’re merely a religious bigot or a single-issue voter.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:01 PM

So lesbians are OK?

BTW , the listing captures most of DC.

the_nile on February 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM
You already know the answer to that, so you’re asking these questions rhetorically, yes?

Lesbians are people engaged in homosexual behavior.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:01 PM

(2.) “I was born that way.”

No, you were not.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM
Prove it.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:02 PM

So, there would’ve been no Reagan or Gingrich or Romney (whose great wealth “greed” covers, I guess).

ddrintn on February 7, 2011 at 5:00 PM
Note that the person you’re addressing clearly stated that they would have no problem with adultery being outlawed in all 50 states.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:03 PM

On damn near every other issue, my comments and GR posts speak for themselves as to my conservatism…

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:01 PM
You honestly don’t realize how ridiculous you appear to many others. You do not, I repeat, DO NOT “speak for themselves as to (your) conservativism…”

What you do is represent someone playing a game as in, being false, which works toward ridiculing the term, “conservativism.” There are many a Libertarian/Liberal who does the same as you do.

You’re not a Conservative. Your behavior, views, perspectives are not those of a Conservative. Hone up to it and start from there and you’ll start gaining a bit of respect from others for at least being lucid.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:04 PM

Lesbians are people engaged in homosexual behavior.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:01 PM
What , the quoted text just complains about male homosexuality.

the_nile on February 7, 2011 at 5:06 PM

If God tells you not to do something, that if you do something, that it will bring His judgement upon you and that’s not a beneficial thing for your future if not present, then why do it?

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM
Frankly I personally find homosexuality naturally repellent. I just don’t find arguments based on religion compelling in a political context, since we don’t all share the same religion.

That was my point.

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 5:06 PM

You’re not a Conservative. Your behavior, views, perspectives are not those of a Conservative.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:04 PM
Is that how the mind of the deranged works? You just keep repeating whatever you can cook up long enough, and you think it will become true?

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:06 PM

(2.) “I was born that way.”

No, you were not.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM
Prove it.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:02 PM
Did you spring forth from your mother’s womb demanding show tunes and leather pants with a number of “garnishes” for “entertainment purposes” later? Did you ask the pediatrician who cleaned you up for “other things” afterward?

No human being is “born gay”. That’s the most insulting statement I’ve ever heard about human beings. It’s something out of Mental Illness 101.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:06 PM

Is that how the mind of the deranged works? You just keep repeating whatever you can cook up long enough, and you think it will become true?

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:06 PM
You’re a cad and a crude, disgusting individual. You make this site feel sticky and sick. Leave it at that, you are viewed by many as a clown and a sick person.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:08 PM

Funny.I have a great deal of respect for MadCon.Others,not so much.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:08 PM

Funny.I have a great deal of respect for MadCon.Others,not so much.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:08 PM
Why is that “funny”? I think it’s very sad. But predictable. And still very sad.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:09 PM

Did you spring forth from your mother’s womb demanding show tunes and leather pants with a number of “garnishes” for “entertainment purposes” later? Did you ask the pediatrician who cleaned you up for “other things” afterward?
No. I came to a political website where some brainless cretin was saying things like “you’re not conservative” and “people are never born gay” with no evidence to back it up, and told them to provide more proof of their claims than the same posterior from which they extracted those statements.

No human being is “born gay”.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:06 PM
Prove it.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:09 PM

You make this site feel sticky and sick. Leave it at that, you are viewed by many as a clown and a sick person.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:08 PM
Good lord. You’ve quite the fixation, haven’t you?

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:10 PM

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM
Frankly I personally find homosexuality naturally repellent. I just don’t find arguments based on religion compelling in a political context, since we don’t all share the same religion.

That was my point.

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 5:06 PM
O.K.

Point I agree with and well recognize. The responses by Christians and other actual Conservatives is almost routinely just that: responses. If the arrows weren’t shot, others would not respond by repelling them. Not you, just saying, that’s where religion enters into things, this issue particularly…AND why GOProud’s goals and behavior have been quite so disgusting, attempting to eliminate “social conservative issues” entirely from the GOP and now working toward that end along with available, hapless Libertarians who share their disgust for Social Conservative issues — meaning, Christians and Christianity.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:12 PM

Ignore this heritage at your peril.

Akzed on February 7, 2011 at 4:53 PM
You will not get one response that isn’t sarcasm, snark or misdirection from Good Lt Count, Jet, Dark etc… neither will Lourdes, Kingjester and Dumbcollegekid who all present facts and point out the truth about this natons founding and God’s word. As a matter of fact the truth as presented will kill the thread for them.

These people need to understand that HOt Air is not Daily Kos or HuffPost where they can scream all day long what they want to hear and there is no one there with whom to disagree or agrue…they aren’t used to being presented with facts, an intelligent argument or evidence and don’t know how to do anything intelligent in a debate. They resort to lies and obfucations and high fiving each other whn they think they have “scored” against one of us.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 5:12 PM

You make this site feel sticky and sick. Leave it at that, you are viewed by many as a clown and a sick person.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:08 PM
Good lord. You’ve quite the fixation, haven’t you?

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:10 PM
What? “Fixation”? What? You assume anyone casting your creepiness aside represents “fixation”? THAT IS EXACTLY WHY YOU WEAR A CLOWN COSTUME, because you’re sick like that.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:13 PM

Although there is no mention of the research that influenced this new position statement, it is clear that efforts to ‘prove’ that homosexuality is simply a biological fait accompli have failed.

The activist researchers themselves have reluctantly reached that conclusion. There is no gay gene. There is no simple biological pathway to homosexuality.
kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 5:14 PM

Good lord.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:10 PM
“Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain.”

Ten Commandments. Even Moses respected that as he also respected God and honored those Commandments. Just not you.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:16 PM

Gee,wonder who said that “Hate the sin,not the sinner “thing?
Whole lot ofhatin’going on here.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:16 PM

Although there is no mention of the research that influenced this new position statement, it is clear that efforts to ‘prove’ that homosexuality is simply a biological fait accompli have failed.

The activist researchers themselves have reluctantly reached that conclusion. There is no gay gene. There is no simple biological pathway to homosexuality.

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 5:14 PM
Yes, as in, DITTO.

No “gay gene,” no “inherent cause” of homosexual behavior, nothing that defines “born that way” as correct or accurate biology or even “belief.” Not one bit of science to support that assertion.

What I hear in retort, however, is more ridiculous rationalization that tries to blame the environment of the womb for “it”…it’ll never stop because sin relies on it’s lies to exist.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:18 PM

hapless Libertarians who share their disgust for Social Conservative issues — meaning, Christians and Christianity.
Jews on your hate list too? Interesting.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:18 PM

This has lost its amusement factor. Attention: when you want to exclude groups from CPAC, and by extension, the conservative movement, based on their disagreement over a single subset of social issues, you are practicing one simple, overused liberal argument:

“Shut up.”

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:18 PM

Gee,wonder who said that “Hate the sin,not the sinner “thing?
Whole lot ofhatin’going on here.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:16 PM
Yes, you and your Gossip Train companions are really into that, I agree. Gossip is sin, by the way.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:19 PM

I might as well try to argue with a devout Hindu that the Rigveda might not all be true. It’d be just as useful a waste of time.

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 4:55 PM
go ahead…

Oh and I notice that since you have no basis for what you beleive you can’t give it.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 5:20 PM

This has lost its amusement factor. Attention: when you want to exclude groups from CPAC, and by extension, the conservative movement, based on their disagreement over a single subset of social issues, you are practicing one simple, overused liberal argument:

“Shut up.”

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:18 PM
Do you even understand that it was GOProud who first advised that “social conservatives” and “social conservative issues” BE EXCLUDED FROM THE GOP’s party platform AND from campaigning 2012? AND WHO ridiculed openly Social Conservatives trying to speak their opinions at CPAC10? You do understand that, don’t you?

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:21 PM

“Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain.”

Ten Commandments. Even Moses respected that as he also respected God and honored those Commandments. Just not you.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:16 PM
I’m agnostic. Your religious rules don’t apply to me, nor do anyone else’s.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:21 PM

hapless Libertarians who share their disgust for Social Conservative issues — meaning, Christians and Christianity.

Jews on your hate list too? Interesting.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:18 PM
Oh, please, not this again.

If anyone sins, they sin. If they’re Jewish, or not Jewish, it’s still sin. That’s what the Bible – including the Hebrew Bible, Old Testament — says.

You should try your hatefest with God Himself. Go ahead, present your hatefulness and hate complaints to God and argue them out with Him. I think you need His help.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:22 PM

So lesbians are OK?

BTW , the listing captures most of DC.

the_nile on February 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM
No… that’s addressed in Romans 8

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 5:22 PM

I’m agnostic. Your religious rules don’t apply to me, nor do anyone else’s.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:21 PM
No one is surprised by your ongoing Crazy Clown madness.

Mad Con to God: “I don’t believe in you so, hey, wait, I said I didn’t believe in you so, what, wait, noooooo…”

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:24 PM

Do you even understand that it was GOProud who first advised that “social conservatives” and “social conservative issues” BE EXCLUDED FROM THE GOP’s party platform AND from campaigning 2012? AND WHO ridiculed openly Social Conservatives trying to speak their opinions at CPAC10? You do understand that, don’t you?

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:21 PM
So f**king what? Mitch Daniels said the same thing. Ann Coulter sided with GOProud. Doesn’t mean they should be shut out of CPAC because you disagree with them. I disagree with them, too. However, my views aren’t on such shaky ground that I’m threatened by a group that agrees with me 90%+ of the time.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:25 PM

No one is surprised by your ongoing Crazy Clown madness.

Mad Con to God: “I don’t believe in you so, hey, wait, I said I didn’t believe in you so, what, wait, noooooo…”

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:24 PM
I’m not surprised by your religious bigotry. Thankfully, I know better than to judge Christianity by the few bad apples like you.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:26 PM

You should try your hatefest with God Himself. Go ahead, present your hatefulness and hate complaints to God and argue them out with Him. I think you need His help.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:22 PM
No hatefest from me.Perhaps you should read your comments today. After you sober up of course. A perfect plethora of pique.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:26 PM

Oh and I notice that since you have no basis for what you beleive you can’t give it.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 5:20 PM
I base everything I believe on the Flower Sermon.

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 5:30 PM

DADT works in my personal life.

Caststeel on February 7, 2011 at 5:31 PM

You’re still a liar.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:43 PM
I agree. I think your potential for idiocy has not yet been explored.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM
I bet you have really, really bad breath. You really hate people, don’t you, I mean, really, really hate them if and when they’re Christian, don’t you?

Jesus saves. Confess your sins, accept Christ as your Savior, and repent your sins, Mad Con.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:32 PM

Liking Palin even more…and I can’t wait for the meltdown among some here.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 10:14 AM
MadCon…the Prophet

CTSherman on February 7, 2011 at 5:32 PM

Getting all pious up here in dis piece, y0

Jeddite on February 7, 2011 at 5:34 PM

I bet you have really, really bad breath.
It appears right4life has a brother that can at least spell correctly, use capitalization and punctuation, and go five minutes without calling people who disagrees with him “fascist”.

I mean, really, really hate them if and when they’re Christian, don’t you?

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:32 PM
I haven’t said a single derogatory thing about Christians. I respect and admire Christianity more than other religions, and most of its adherents. Once again, you know so much that isn’t so.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:36 PM

No hatefest from me.Perhaps you should read your comments today. After you sober up of course. A perfect plethora of pique.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:26 PM
What? You think THAT is not hateful, what you wrote there and have continued to wretch here for hours on end today?

You can’t see your own hatefulness: suggesting “Jews” are “on my hate list” and now suggesting I “sober up” and more…

That’s about as sick and hateful as any sick and hateful wretch ever gets, that’s you. You’re attracted to other sick and hateful individuals, you feel confident amidst the sick and hateful.

I don’t drink and have long maintained here that I don’t. Sorry to burst your little hateful puss filled delusions, but you’re sick and owe me and many others here an apology. I assume you understand what an apology is…wait, I now doubt that you do.

Please get yourself some sort of pills and avoid public contact as much as possible and limit your sickness from spreading all through the land with your crazed, nasty rants. Nasty, nasty, nasty. I think the Green Room is padded so you and Mad Con should feel comfortable there and not threatened by the sane world out here.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:36 PM

Getting all pious up here in dis piece, y0

Jeddite on February 7, 2011 at 5:34 PM
And giving true piety a bad rap.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:37 PM

I haven’t said a single derogatory thing about Christians. I respect and admire Christianity more than other religions, and most of its adherents. Once again, you know so much that isn’t so.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:36 PM
A very loud laugh has just rumbled throughout the nation among those who have read the 5:36 PM rant by Mad Con.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:37 PM

And giving true piety a bad rap.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:37 PM
Many a psychiatrist and more than a few priests would find your definition of “true peity” interesting. Can you enunciate what you mean by “true piety”, in a form that does not employ anti-social delusions and pettiness in disrespect of the beliefs of others?

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:39 PM

This thread is EPIC. It has the Best & Worst of HotAir all rolled into One.

It’s like a Burrito with Alot of Guacamole, but not enough Meat.

portlandon on February 7, 2011 at 5:40 PM

That would explain all the gas.

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 5:43 PM

Can you enunciate what you mean by “true piety”, in a form that does not employ anti-social delusions and pettiness in disrespect of the beliefs of others?

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:39 PM

Again,please review your comments.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:44 PM

gay-conservatives are the cream of the crop.

Aquateen Hungerforce on February 7, 2011 at 5:41 PM

They’re not Conservatives. They themselves boast that they are not so.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:44 PM

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 5:43 PM

tl;dr

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:44 PM

Again,please review your comments.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:44 PM

You have apparently tripped over or choked on a dictionary.

Your hatefulness throughout these eight pages of comments is duly noted, unfortunately. As are your cruel and disgusting slurs. Mean old lady indeed.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:45 PM

Dear Senator McConnell and Representative Boehner
On behalf of limited government conservatives everywhere we write to urge you and your colleagues in Washington to put forward a legislative agenda in the next Congress that reflects the principles of the Tea Party movement.
Poll after poll confirms that the Tea Party’s laser focus on issues of economic freedom and limited government resonated with the American people on Election Day. The Tea Party movement galvanized around a desire to return to constitutional government and against excessive spending, taxation and government intrusion into the lives of the American people.
The Tea Party movement is a non-partisan movement, focused on issues of economic freedom and limited government, and a movement that will be as vigilant with a Republican-controlled Congress as we were with a Democratic-controlled Congress.
This election was not a mandate for the Republican Party, nor was it a mandate to act on any social issue, nor should it be interpreted as a political blank check.
Already, there are Washington insiders and special interest groups that hope to co-opt the Tea Party’s message and use it to push their own agenda – particularly as it relates to social issues. We are disappointed but not surprised by this development. We recognize the importance of values but believe strongly that those values should be taught by families and our houses of worship and not legislated from Washington, D.C.We urge you to stay focused on the issues that got you and your colleagues elected and to resist the urge to run down any social issue rabbit holes in order to appease the special interests.
The Tea Party movement is not going away and we intend to continue to hold Washington accountable.
Sincerely,
Christopher R Barron Chairman of the Board, GOProud
Andrew Ian Dodge
Coordinator, Maine Tea Party Patriots
Pam Stevenson
Coordinator, Arizona Tea Party Patriots
Dianna Greenwood
Executive Director, New American Patriots (Ashland, OH)

Here is the letter and it is what it has been described as. And i wonder, who made them the spokemen for us or TEA Partiers? Who are the ones trying ot co-opt the TEA PArty movement for their purposes?

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 5:46 PM

“Reagan’s November 1 editorial stated, in part, “Whatever else it is, homosexuality is not a contagious disease like the measles. Prevailing scientific opinion is that an individual’s sexuality is determined at a very early age and that a child’s teachers do not really influence this.”

Reagan came out against the Brigg’s Initiative. A voter proposition in 1978 that would have made it illegal to hire teachers who were gay or lesbian.

SC.Charlie on February 7, 2011 at 5:46 PM

Well, you useful fools go enjoy your Big Gay CPAC and GOProud’s terrible behavior.

However, few to no Conservatives will participate and that’s a good thing.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:47 PM

They’re not Conservatives. They themselves boast that they are not so.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:44 PM

And there it is, from the minds of the enlightened: you cannot be both gay and conservative.

I’m sure it will be news to several gay regular commenters here.

I’m waiting for the jump to “you cannot be non-Christian and conservative”. Just a few more inches…

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 5:47 PM

Mean old lady indeed.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 5:45 PMWhy,thank you I do try.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:48 PM

How did that happen?

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 5:48 PM

Hmm could have sworn didn’t ht strike.Damn this key board.

katy the mean old lady on February 7, 2011 at 5:51 PM

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