Palin defends GOProud participation at CPAC

posted at 10:12 am on February 7, 2011 by Ed Morrissey

No great surprise here, really; Palin has quietly backed the end of DADT and expressed support for conservative gays and lesbians in the past. Speaking here with David Brody from the Christian Broadcast Network and excerpted by Breitbart TV, Palin doesn’t endorse GOProud but does defend their attendance at CPAC, and argues that the value of events such as CPAC is to debate the issues and provide as much information as possible to attendees:

Well, I’ve never attended a CPAC conference ever so I was a little taken aback this go around when I couldn’t make it to this one either and then there was a speculation well I either agree or disagree with some of the groups or issues that CPAC is discussing. It really is a matter of time for me. But when it comes to and David, perhaps what it is that you’re suggesting in the question is should the GOP, should conservatives not reach out to others, not participate in events or forums that perhaps are rising within those forums are issues that maybe we don’t personally agree with? And I say no, it’s like you being on a panel shoot, with a bunch of the liberal folks whom you have been on and you provide good information and balance, and you allow for healthy debate, which is needed in order for people to gather information and make up their own minds about issues.

I look at participation in an event like CPAC or any other event, along, or kind of in that same vein as the more information that people have, the better.

I’m not sure we’ve polled on this question at all, so this seems like a good time to do so. Should conservatives welcome GOProud, or should they skip CPAC if GOProud participates?


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says the fascist who wants to eliminate the richt of christians with gay marriage.

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 3:16 PM

Careful of those typos.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 3:18 PM

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 2:36 PM

They made a big to-do out of a “letter” they published publicly, allegedly “to the GOP,” (last year), in which they “strongly advised” or asked, whatever, the GOP to EXCLUDE “social issues” from platform and voters from discussion in the campaign for 2012.

Then the group “clarified” it’s purpose (last year also), claiming their purpose was to and always has been to be an activist group for “homosexual rights” and that they “never have been conservative” and more.

These aspects about their group, they seem “proud” of…

Meanwhile, they were named to the Board of Directors of CPAC or some such thing — whatever the organizational ‘group’ or method of CPAC is, the name of it — which holds responsibility of actually selecting or deselecting what groups and which individuals will participate in CPAC11 as also in CPAC10 just past.

So it’s not a “mere” case of someone or their group simply wanting to attend CPAC. It’s an issue of a homosexual activist group who declares they are not conservative to being involved in actually shaping what CPAC is and what it will include in it’s annual convention.

And GOProud is essentially the Log Cabin Republicans — who also were public about them not being conservative and being, instead, a homosexual activist group (Liberals) – reformed under a new name.

I highly suggest that you read about Grover Norquist, who is the head of CPAC whatever the Committee is called (Board, whatever). GOProud’s sordid history is on the internet when/if you can read past the Leftwing hyperbole about them and find out more about the two primary organizers, who are not at all good people – then they’ve added on a number of Libertarians and more Democrats, Tammy Bruce, recently Breitbart, Margaret Hoover who claims to be Conservative but who is a huge mouthpiece for “gay marriage” and a number of other people. All oppose Prop. 8 and just about everything most Conservatives support.

Story about Norquist is most informative, however.

Grover Norquist’s Jihad from American Thinker

Is Grover Norquist an Islamist? – 2005 post by Daniel Pipes but still noteworthy today

The GOP’s Grover Norquist problem and the RNC debate – January 2009 post by Michelle Malkin with more links, more news, other issues related

Most revealing article is by David Horowitz – its quite lengthy but highly informative reading, highly suggest saving a copy, reading it all…

A Troubling Influence By: Frank J Gaffney Jr.
FrontPageMagazine.com | Tuesday, December 09, 2003

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 3:19 PM

How about a rough order of magnitude. Is it in the thousands of years or is it more like the world is 14 billion years old?

MJBrutus on February 7, 2011 at 3:16 PM

From a Biblical standpoint? The Bible doesn’t state how old the universe is. It could be any age.

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 3:19 PM

Nobody created gays. Man and woman was created. After that it’s all on us.

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 3:16 PM

So we created gays?

Did we just declare them “created” and they sprang up out of thin air (like man [not woman] was ‘created’)?

He’s accurately describing things from his prospective. That’s bigotry? Seriously?

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 3:16 PM

I know, right?

The guy says that he believes every word in the Bible as the infallible word of God.

OK. Well, that renders any debate on anything in the Bible then moot, because he’s not going to debate anything in the Bible.

He’s just going to recite what’s in it and that’s the end of it.

And pointing that out is now “bigotry,” apparently.

Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:20 PM

So if somebody murders my child, it’s my fault. Not the killer’s. Mine. Because I’m not perfect.

It depends on the circumstnces. If you leave your son with the man next door so you can go out and you know nothing about him and he then rapes and murders your little boy because you left him with that guy then yes. If God is telling you that he is going to destroy the earth because of the debased behavior humans are engaging in and you keep your child off the boat because you don’t believe or care …yes it’s your fault your child drowns.

Curious that our laws aren’t structured that way, and that they actually place responsibility with the killer.

Many parents are held accountable for the actions of others against their children, that is why every state has child protective services and negligence laws. Women have been incarcerated for allowing boyfiends to murder or abuse their children though they themselves didn’t do it. They negligently placed their child in that position.

How IMMORAL of our system, no?

So let’s review. God is an indiscriminate Indiscriminate? He has his very well stated reasons.killer who kills innocents and allows “offenders” to live as “punishment.”

This is what you call a “standard of morality.”

Are you beginning to see why some of your beliefs are questioned and greeted with incredulity in the 21st century? NO and I don’t accept your assertion that they are for that reason. I think some people just want to sin and anybody who points out to them that that isn’t okay gets immediately set upon. Jesus said we would be attacked and we would suffer for our faith.
Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 2:35 PM

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 3:20 PM

From a Biblical standpoint? The Bible doesn’t state how old the universe is. It could be any age.

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 3:19 PM

He said the world, which I assume means the Earth.

How old does the Bible tell us it is?

A few thousand years, or billions of years?

Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:21 PM

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 3:19 PM

I was asking about your opinion. Basically I wanted to know if you’re a young earther or if you accept the scientific estimates.

MJBrutus on February 7, 2011 at 3:21 PM

So you’re basically unable to explain how you think that someone calling themselves gay makes no sense, but that you’ve never displayed the same befuddlement at someone being called a “ladies’ man”?

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 2:37 PM

It’s just not a term I use. Comparing outward heterosexual behaviors, if that is your intended consequence of such labels, actually illustrates the folly of the entire argument, including DADT. Secondly, being gay and engaging in homosexual practices/behavior are two different thingies.

long_cat on February 7, 2011 at 3:22 PM

Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:21 PM

Science puts the earth at about 4.5 billion years, IIRC and the universe at about 13.5 billion.

MJBrutus on February 7, 2011 at 3:22 PM

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 3:12 PM

The tower of babel was mentioned by every historical record of similar age to Genesis (and older). Yes you can read all the inconsistencies in historical texts as such if you want, but we simply don’t have coherent sources back that long. Hell, we don’t have coherent sources on Britain in the Dark Ages. If Sumerian texts can be judged to be more or less decent and accurate historical records, so is the Bible. It’s not strictly literally accurate but it’s just as good as the other stuff that has survived, and fascinating to compare.

alwaysfiredup on February 7, 2011 at 3:22 PM

Does it explain how humans used to live for 900 years?

No it doesn’t. It isn’t a biology textbook.

And what happened to human health between then and now?

See answer 1.

I mean, Jesus didn’t live to be 900, or even 100. He was in his 30s when he was killed (according to historical accounts). If he died in 33 AD, then that means that people stopped living for hundreds of years at a time between the time of Noah (or even before) and the birth of Christ.

So what happened to mankind’s longevity? I always found that one kind of…curious.

Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:17 PM

Why do you think the longevity of Noah has anything to do with how long people lived that were around when he was? Everyone else, almost, could have died promptly on their 4oth birthday. The Bible doesn’t say a thing about it.

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 3:25 PM

NO and I don’t accept your assertion that they are for that reason. I think some people just want to sin and anybody who points out to them that that isn’t okay gets immediately set upon. Jesus said we would be attacked and we would suffer for our faith.

How are you being attacked? You’re being questioned and asked to explain things. Does thinking about things a little more critically than the scientific paradigm of “God said it, I believe it, that settles it” cause you physical pain or suffering of some sort?

It depends on the circumstnces. If you leave your son with the man next door so you can go out and you know nothing about him and he then rapes and murders your little boy because you left him with that guy then yes. If God is telling you that he is going to destroy the earth because of the debased behavior humans are engaging in and you keep your child off the boat because you don’t believe or care …yes it’s your fault your child drowns.

So every human on Earth at the time, except for 8 people, were all sinners and deserved to die in floods that mysteriously appeared one day, covered the Earth, and then vanished.

He has his very well stated reasons.

For killing a child who did nothing wrong? What about the child’s right to live?

Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:26 PM

The tower of babel was mentioned by every historical record of similar age to Genesis (and older). Yes you can read all the inconsistencies in historical texts as such if you want, but we simply don’t have coherent sources back that long. Hell, we don’t have coherent sources on Britain in the Dark Ages. If Sumerian texts can be judged to be more or less decent and accurate historical records, so is the Bible. It’s not strictly literally accurate but it’s just as good as the other stuff that has survived, and fascinating to compare.

alwaysfiredup on February 7, 2011 at 3:22 PM

Well, the bible was written in Babylon.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 3:29 PM

Why do you think the longevity of Noah has anything to do with how long people lived that were around when he was? Everyone else, almost, could have died promptly on their 4oth birthday. The Bible doesn’t say a thing about it.

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 3:25 PM

The Bible makes claims about how long very important Biblical figure lived.

Now you’re telling us that these facts don’t actually matter (because, I suspect, you also realize that they’re nonsense).

If that’s true, what else in the Bible doesn’t matter?

Is it the word of God or not?

Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:30 PM

This is the lazy person’s argument, there.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 2:49 PM

And yet I managed to edit out all my ad hominems.

alwaysfiredup on February 7, 2011 at 3:04 PM

Identifying and defining what you wrote as “the lazy person’s argument” is not an ad hominem.

It’s a description of the TYPE OF ARGUEMENT you deployed there, the argumentative method. The method you deployed was “the lazy person’s method”.

I did not write that YOU ‘were a lazy person’ – I wrote that the method you attempted was “the lazy person’s argument.”

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 3:30 PM

I was asking about your opinion. Basically I wanted to know if you’re a young earther or if you accept the scientific estimates.

MJBrutus on February 7, 2011 at 3:21 PM

I have no reason to doubt scientific estimates but accept them is a strong word. Do I see them as facts? No, science is too vague on that to call it a fact in my book. Millions or billions sure, but after that it’s guesswork. Mostly I could care less.

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 3:32 PM

Well, the bible was written in Babylon.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 3:29 PM

I imagine at least some of it was, yes. What is your point?

alwaysfiredup on February 7, 2011 at 3:32 PM

What if a single person was attracted to members of their own gender but didn’t act on that attraction?

Do they then become sinful? No I don’t believe so but, if that person starts fantasizing about having sex with the person they are attracted to, then the thoughts are sin and they have to stop and repent… They have to fight that hard fight all their lives… Paul asked God to take a torn from his side once. We are never told what that thorn is but some have thought he was homosexual and in this case if that were true (I’m not saying it is)then God would be telling him in His response “that His Grace was sufficeint enough for Paul” to fight against that and even if one were miserable all one’s life it woud be worth it not to ultimately lose your salvation. Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 2:52 PM

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 3:32 PM

Lourdes, excellent posts. That JetBoy and others deny the reality that GOProud is nothing more than a Gay Rights group does not change the FACT that they are.

I find it interesting though, that, according to commenters here on just the first two pages of this thread, if I oppose a “Gay Rights” group attending a “Conservative” conference, then I’m a “knuckle-dragger” who wants to “go Taliban on gay people” and “put them in camps.” Way to mischaracterize the arguments against GOProud at CPAC.

I am not “anti-gay.” I am anti “gay rights.” There is a vast difference between the two things. (The) opposing viewpoint would carry a lot more weight if you would stop equating the two things and stop implying that I “hate” gays and want to put them in camps, because I oppose giving them special rights and redefining marriage.

I really liked how JetBoy cherry-picked those quotes from GOProud, and ignored all the rest which SPECIFICALLY mention “gay rights.” It is typical of his dishonesty and denial of reality. Why are homosexuals and their advocates so dishonest? The more I see of them mischaracterizing people who disagree with the gay agenda as “haters,” the LESS I pay attention to their point of view.

Back to the REAL TOPIC of the thread, Palin answered this about the only way she could have. I don’t hold it against her in any way.

JannyMae on February 7, 2011 at 3:07 PM

Thanks, JannyMae, and I enjoyed and agree with your post.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 3:33 PM

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 3:32 PM

As an aside, regarding an earlier comment you made a few pages ago (can’t now relocate it, so linked to current one above), I wrote a comment that included a lot of helpful reading (links) for you about Grover Norquist and GOProud but it looks like it was filtered out, unfortunately.

The most important post you might read — very lengthy but well worth the reading — is by David Horowitz, republished by Frank Gaffney on FrontPage, entitled “A Troubling Influence.”

I’ll try to post the link again but don’t know if this will get through…

http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=15084

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 3:35 PM

I imagine at least some of it was, yes. What is your point?

alwaysfiredup on February 7, 2011 at 3:32 PM

That would be the place to pick up a local legend. New cities, mixes of languages, mud-brick towers that melt in the rain.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 3:35 PM

Lourdes, excellent posts. That JetBoy and others deny the reality that GOProud is nothing more than a Gay Rights group does not change the FACT that they are.

That JetBoy? lol

Well, now it’s two of you who have no clue what GOProud is. Hilarious!

JetBoy on February 7, 2011 at 3:36 PM

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 3:32 PM

Trying to repost a few more of the links that didn’t get through earlier…

The GOP’s Grover Norquist problem and the RNC debate
By Michelle Malkin • January 5, 2009 12:29 PM

http://michellemalkin.com/2009/01/05/the-gops-grover-norquist-problem/

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 3:37 PM

The Bible makes claims about how long very important Biblical figure lived.

Now you’re telling us that these facts don’t actually matter (because, I suspect, you also realize that they’re nonsense).

If that’s true, what else in the Bible doesn’t matter?

Is it the word of God or not?

Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:30 PM

Where did I suggest they don’t matter? I stated that your inference that because Noah lived to be 900 it must be because people just lived longer then is garbage. Noah lived to be 900 because it fit God’s purpose. He was favored by God. Not because he ate lots of carrots or had the philosopher’s stone or something.

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 3:38 PM

Well, now it’s two of you who have no clue what GOProud is. Hilarious!

JetBoy on February 7, 2011 at 3:36 PM

A support group for members of the gay community who have realized that socialism sucks?

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 3:38 PM

Jeez, you have what God calls a “hard heart”. I believe that the Bible is the unrefutable Word of God. You need to understand that is you want to debate me.
CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 3:00 PM

“You must accept my assumptions if you want to debate.”

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 3:39 PM

Well, now it’s two of you who have no clue what GOProud is. Hilarious!

JetBoy on February 7, 2011 at 3:36 PM

Nah, again you lie. That makes more like millions of Conservatives who get the message as to who and what GOProud actually is.

The two head guys, whatever their titles, are ghastly, rude, crass leftwingers. I realize they get a certain amount of press but it’s likely as not due to their offensiveness than anything else.

GOProud is the newer permutation of the Log Cabin Republicans. Both groups have been very clear in the public — their own boasting — that they are NOT conservatives, are homosexual activist groups (or were in the case of Log Cabin Republicans).

They also despise a great deal of the legislation that the Right, Conservatives included, have attempted as to marriage and abortion funding.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 3:40 PM

“You must accept my assumptions if you want to debate.”

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 3:39 PM

Not much to work with, is it?

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 3:42 PM

“You must accept my assumptions if you want to debate.”

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 3:39 PM

BIGOT!

Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:44 PM

you have what God calls a “hard heart”. I believe that the Bible is the unrefutable Word of God. You need to understand that is you want to debate me.
CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 3:00 PM

“You must accept my assumptions if you want to debate.”

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 3:39 PM

CCRWM is pointing out your intolerance and avoidance of actual issue debate. CCRWM believes the Bible is the unrefutable Word of God and you ridicule it (as that and upon other terms).

You aren’t being told you “must accept” his/her beliefs, but that you acknowledge that that’s where CCRWM is coming from in order to “debate” ethical issues as ascribed by the Bible.

God tells us — in that Bible of His — that there’ll be more people such as yourself than there will be of those who believe and have faith on the terms He requests of us. So the ridicule you display is not surprising to anyone who believes.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 3:44 PM

Nah, again you lie. That makes more like millions of Conservatives who get the message as to who and what GOProud actually is.

The two head guys, whatever their titles, are ghastly, rude, crass leftwingers. I realize they get a certain amount of press but it’s likely as not due to their offensiveness than anything else.

GOProud is the newer permutation of the Log Cabin Republicans. Both groups have been very clear in the public — their own boasting — that they are NOT conservatives, are homosexual activist groups (or were in the case of Log Cabin Republicans).

They also despise a great deal of the legislation that the Right, Conservatives included, have attempted as to marriage and abortion funding.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 3:40 PM

Even if you tried, you couldn’t be more of an idiot. But keep on..keeping on.

JetBoy on February 7, 2011 at 3:45 PM

That would be the place to pick up a local legend. New cities, mixes of languages, mud-brick towers that melt in the rain.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 3:35 PM

You said it contradicted all other historical texts. Obviously not. And there is some historical evidence of King David, it doesn’t all start in Babylon.

alwaysfiredup on February 7, 2011 at 3:45 PM

Then what is the point of Jesus? In the old Testament when people had more direct interaction with God through Abraham, Moses and the Prophets, they would at the end of the year take a perfect lamb and sacrifice it as a show of atonement for their sins and they would try, by trying to do good deeds to work their way to God. It was obvious to God that man is weak and a sinner and could/can not work his way to God and that he would forever be burning sacrifices in atonement. So God said enough and gave us His one and only begotten son to take all our sins upon Himself as a mpropitiation for our sins. If we accept that and that Jesus is our Savior and Redeemer and we demonstrate that belief by following his teachings then we get to Heaven through Him…Jesus said “I am the Truth and the Way and the Light. No man comes to the Father except through me.” Right? Yes

You can’t hedge on that. It’s pretty clear – NObody.

So if Jesus is right, then what appears in the OT in that passage can’t be true. Which is it? It is true and I say everyday Thank yuo God for sending Jesus and thank you Jesus for willing to obey your Father and come to earth as a man to teach us, guide us, set the example for us, die on the cross and Resurrect on the 3rd day which no one else ever has done, so that I don’t have to try to work my way into Heaven which I could never be perfect enough to do!
Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:00 PM

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 3:46 PM

I stated that your inference that because Noah lived to be 900 it must be because people just lived longer then is garbage. Noah lived to be 900 because it fit God’s purpose.

I’m not claiming that people lived for hundreds of years.

The Bible is.

I’m suggesting that the fact that Noah, Abraham, David or any other Biblical figure lived for hundreds of years each is FALSE given what we know about, well, Jesus’s age for one, and also what science, physiology, biology and history teach us about the human body.

Now, if you want to make the argument that people didn’t have as much of a sense of time at that juncture in history as we do, and had different ways of measuring “years,” that’s a debate worth having.

But to claim flat out that Noah lived for 900 years – just because? Nope.

Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:49 PM

CCRWM is pointing out your intolerance and avoidance of actual issue debate.

No, CCRWM is admitting that it doesn’t matter what others say, what reality is or what science shows.

He only believes in the Bible, and nothing else, and that’s the end of it.

In an argument over whether what the Bible says is true or not, what is left to debate in his mind? Nothing. His mind is made up.

Has nothing to do with bigotry. Again, it’s just reality.

Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:51 PM

Well I can’t make a decision on this until Jenfidel weighs in with her opinion.

Knucklehead on February 7, 2011 at 12:14 PM

Better head over to Big Government then.
I spotted her on a thread about just this topic.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 7, 2011 at 3:52 PM

So we created gays?

Did we just declare them “created” and they sprang up out of thin air (like man [not woman] was ‘created’)?

I said nobody created Gays. Are we nobody? No one is created gay. God created a man and a woman. Our sexual preferences and proclivities are our own. God no more created gays than he created people who get off on pain.

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 3:53 PM

CCRWM is pointing out your intolerance and avoidance of actual issue debate. CCRWM believes the Bible is the unrefutable Word of God and you ridicule it (as that and upon other terms).
You aren’t being told you “must accept” his/her beliefs, but that you acknowledge that that’s where CCRWM is coming from in order to “debate” ethical issues as ascribed by the Bible.
God tells us — in that Bible of His — that there’ll be more people such as yourself than there will be of those who believe and have faith on the terms He requests of us. So the ridicule you display is not surprising to anyone who believes.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 3:44 PM

It’s a great tactic:

“Homosexuality is a sin, because the Bible, which is axiomatically infallible, says so. End of debate, I win.”

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 3:54 PM

You’re not debating, if that’s what you believe.

You’re just reciting what a 2000+ year-old book says, no matter how much it contradicts itself, no matter how ridiculous it is, no matter what’s inaccurate in it and no matter what it says.

The debate, in your mind, doesn’t actually exist.

Must be nice! :-)

Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:02 PM

True it is a discussion. But I believe every word of it; the good, the bad, the ugly because there is enough historical evidence to support it. Mosty though because God wants us to come to Him in faith. If He just proved Himself then we really wouldn’t be free to accept him, we would just be compelled to and He want us to come to him of our own free will.

I have a relationship with God. I have been very blessed, corrected, disciplined, and interacted with by God. He has given me things I’ve asked for and said no to others that in hindsight would not have been right for me. If you don’t want to engage with him you won’t have experiences with Him.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 3:54 PM

I’m suggesting that the fact that Noah, Abraham, David or any other Biblical figure lived for hundreds of years each is FALSE given what we know about, well, Jesus’s age for one, and also what science, physiology, biology and history teach us about the human body.

Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:49 PM

given that you know nothing about science, physiology, bioogy, history, or anything else..

I’ll stick with the bible, which has been proven over and over to be true…and you’ve been proven over and over not to be.

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 3:55 PM

Now, if you want to make the argument that people didn’t have as much of a sense of time at that juncture in history as we do, and had different ways of measuring “years,” that’s a debate worth having.

But to claim flat out that Noah lived for 900 years – just because? Nope.

Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:49 PM

It all has to do with the time the OT…and specifically Genesis, was written. The older one was, the more respect they got. So it wasn’t a rarity that people were given all these hundreds of years of age…it was only meant that they were well respected.

“Beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” (2 Peter 3:8)

JetBoy on February 7, 2011 at 3:55 PM

It’s a great tactic:

“Homosexuality is a sin, because the Bible, which is axiomatically infallible, says so. End of debate, I win.”

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 3:54 PM

ok then look at the life expectancy.

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 3:55 PM

You said it contradicted all other historical texts. Obviously not. And there is some historical evidence of King David, it doesn’t all start in Babylon.

alwaysfiredup on February 7, 2011 at 3:45 PM

Exodus is inconsistent with Egyptian history (though there might be some mention of the Hebrews as annoying tribesmen in Egyptian occupied Judea), and there is no archeological evidence of an invasion of cannon. David and Solomon are basically just names, without any verifying context.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 3:56 PM

of course none of the gay rights supporters want to debate the fascist nature of the gay rights movement..and the freedom for christians it would eliminate…they’re fine with that.

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 3:57 PM

David and Solomon are basically just names, without any verifying context.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 3:56 PM

given the bible has been proven over and over and over again to be right….all you can do is argue that if we haven’t found it outside the bible its false.

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 3:58 PM

Imagine how awkward it will be for some people when, upon passing through the pearly gates, they are greeted by the smiling faces of so many people they never expected would be permitted to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Jeddite on February 7, 2011 at 3:58 PM

I’m not claiming that people lived for hundreds of years.

The Bible is.

I’m suggesting that the fact that Noah, Abraham, David or any other Biblical figure lived for hundreds of years each is FALSE given what we know about, well, Jesus’s age for one, and also what science, physiology, biology and history teach us about the human body.

Now, if you want to make the argument that people didn’t have as much of a sense of time at that juncture in history as we do, and had different ways of measuring “years,” that’s a debate worth having.

But to claim flat out that Noah lived for 900 years – just because? Nope.

Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:49 PM

Your problem here seems to be with the idea that the Bible is claiming things. It doesn’t. The Bible states things and asks you to believe them or not. It’s your choice and you have free will. Noah lived to be 900 because he lived to be 900. People don’t believe that because it can or can’t be shown to be true. They believe it because, for them, it is true. What the age of Jesus has to do with anything I don’t know. He did not die a natural death.

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 3:59 PM

given the bible has been proven over and over and over again to be right….all you can do is argue that if we haven’t found it outside the bible its false.

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 3:58 PM

I keep seeing this “the bible has been proven over and over again”, but I’ve only seen the exact opposite.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:01 PM

He said the world, which I assume means the Earth.

How old does the Bible tell us it is?

A few thousand years, or billions of years?

Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:21 PM

It doesn’t state how old the world is.

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 4:02 PM

Imagine how awkward it will be for some people when, upon passing through the pearly gates, they are greeted by the smiling faces of so many people they never expected would be permitted to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Jeddite on February 7, 2011 at 3:58 PM

It would be interesting to quantify how many people each religious sect think make it to heaven.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:02 PM

I keep seeing this “the bible has been proven over and over again”, but I’ve only seen the exact opposite.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:01 PM

oh really where? post it.

Museum’s tablet lends new weight to Biblical truthDalya Alberge, Arts Correspondent
The British Museum yesterday hailed a discovery within a modest clay tablet in its collection as a breakthrough for biblical archaeology – dramatic proof of the accuracy of the Old Testament.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2056362.ece

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 4:03 PM

Nobody created gays. Man and woman was created. After that it’s all on us.

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 3:16 PM

So we created gays?

Did we just declare them “created” and they sprang up out of thin air (like man [not woman] was ‘created’)?

He’s accurately describing things from his prospective. That’s bigotry? Seriously?

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 3:16 PM

I know, right?

The guy says that he believes every word in the Bible as the infallible word of God.

OK. Well, that renders any debate on anything in the Bible then moot, because he’s not going to debate anything in the Bible.

He’s just going to recite what’s in it and that’s the end of it.

And pointing that out is now “bigotry,” apparently.

Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:20 PM

(1.) Sin may just be “created by God” in the entirety of His Creation — when considering Creation and God as One and Only, BUT…

ONLY IF one does not believe aspects of God’s Creation, such as how sin came to be.

IF you discount that satan exists — satan’s ‘best’ lie, that he doesn’t exist, that evil doesn’t exist, including that the Bible is hooey, etc., just don’t believe any of it, most of satan’s arguments well represented by the Left on this very comment stream — IF you accept satan’s lies, THEN you can “blame God” for hardship, sin, all that’s bad and wrong in your life as you view right and wrong.

But God’s good. He’s all good. He’s not only all-Good, He does not have anything “evil” in Him. He created Heaven and Earth and Man in Earth and souls as His pure and blameless, and evil blemished all of that.

God “ALLOWS” evil to happen, but He is not the source of it. God doesn’t inflict evil things on anyone but He does advise us that evil will happen to us and that we can expect to live in a fallen world as this is. He ALSO gives us the tools and tells us the how-to to contradict and counter evil with good and by good and the importance of faith to do that.

These things are in the Bible in much more specific details and far more profoundly than this colloquial rendition made here. But God is NOT the source of evil, He does not “do evil” to us or anyone.

God made Man and Woman. The rest is Man and Woman being led astray by evil into evil but it continues only because they turn away from God and deny His helps.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:03 PM

Is Allah due back soon? It’s not nice to just disappear. I hope this is just a vacation…

petunia on February 7, 2011 at 10:16 AM

Heh, and here I was revelling in his absence. One less RINO publishing here was a welcome change.

Levinite on February 7, 2011 at 4:04 PM

It doesn’t state how old the world is.

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 4:02 PM

If you add all of the ages together, you get a number of years in the thousands.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:04 PM

It doesn’t state how old the world is.

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 4:02 PM

of course when you ask the buck private how something like this makes any sense…..

Soft tissue remnants discovered in Archaeopteryx fossil
It boasts more than just beautiful impressions of long-gone feathers. One of the world’s most famous fossils – of the earliest known bird, Archaeopteryx – also contains remnants of the feathers’ soft tissue.

“It’s amazing that that chemistry is preserved after 150 million years,” says Roy Wogelius, a geochemist at the University of Manchester, UK. Wogelius and colleagues scanned the “Thermopolis specimen” using a powerful X-ray beam from a synchrotron at the Stanford Synchrotron Radiation Lightsource in California.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18882-soft-tissue-remnants-discovered-in-archaeopteryx-fossil.html

he gets REAL quiet…

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 4:04 PM

How about a rough order of magnitude. Is it in the thousands of years or is it more like the world is 14 billion years old?

MJBrutus on February 7, 2011 at 3:16 PM

If I want to bake a cake, then I have to get the eggs, cake mix, oil and an even I can heat to 375 degrees. I have to mix it all up and put it in the oven for 35 minutes and I’ll have a baked cake at tahe end of that process…If God wants to create a cake he speaks it into being instantaneously…

God describes creating the earth in 7 days. He also says to him a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years are as a day to Him.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:05 PM

Exodus is inconsistent with Egyptian history (though there might be some mention of the Hebrews as annoying tribesmen in Egyptian occupied Judea), and there is no archeological evidence of an invasion of cannon. David and Solomon are basically just names, without any verifying context.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 3:56 PM

I didn’t say every detail had been independently proven, I said it was just as accurate as other ancient texts. It is. And there is less “counterproof” than there is a simple absence of proof. Be less minimalist, it’s not in vogue at the moment.

alwaysfiredup on February 7, 2011 at 4:05 PM

I love how the G word brings our moral busybodies out of the woodwork.

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
— C.S. Lewis

That’s right; you religious zealots torment us all. Leave the judging to God and STFU!

Levinite on February 7, 2011 at 4:08 PM

Mad Con, JetBoyo and Cindy Munford with Chewy the Lab running along beside you: The Gossip Train.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 12:55 PM

They’re all good conservatives.
I’ve enjoyed your comments in the past.
There’s no need to go down this path.
Thanks, Barb

annoyinglittletwerp on February 7, 2011 at 4:09 PM

Imagine how awkward it will be for some people when, upon passing through the pearly gates, they are greeted by the smiling faces of so many people they never expected would be permitted to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Jeddite on February 7, 2011 at 3:58 PM

God tells us He wants all Men to be saved, and most Christians believe that and hope for the same, since it is, also, in the Bible and the Bible is believed by them/us.

Praying for the salvation of Mankind — all Men (includes all Women, since “Man” is used here to refer to Mankind, not to gender) — bothers some but this is why Christians do such. We pray that all can be welcomed into Heaven and that is what God tells us his hope for Man is.

But He also tells us that many will not do as He asks, and thus, will not be saved by their own refusal to abide by His Word…and asks us to pray for all accordingly.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:09 PM

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 4:03 PM

I’m not at all surprised that the new testament made references to historical events or names — but that doesn’t say anything about the claims of the bible being “proven”.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:09 PM

I highly suggest that you read about Grover Norquist, who is the head of CPAC whatever the Committee is called (Board, whatever). GOProud’s sordid history is on the internet when/if you can read past the Leftwing hyperbole about them and find out more about the two primary organizers, who are not at all good people – then they’ve added on a number of Libertarians and more Democrats, Tammy Bruce, recently Breitbart, Margaret Hoover who claims to be Conservative but who is a huge mouthpiece for “gay marriage” and a number of other people. All oppose Prop. 8 and just about everything most Conservatives suppo.

Story about Norquist is most informative, however.

Grover Norquist’s Jihad from American Thinker

Is Grover Norquist an Islamist? – 2005 post by Daniel Pipes but still noteworthy today

The GOP’s Grover Norquist problem and the RNC debate – January 2009 post by Michelle Malkin with more links, more news, other issues related

Most revealing article is by David Horowitz – its quite lengthy but highly informative reading, highly suggest saving a copy, reading it all…

A Troubling Influence By: Frank J Gaffney Jr.
FrontPageMagazine.com | Tuesday, December 09, 2003

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 3:19 PM

I will and thank you for the links… I will go back and read because some think that all GOProud wants is to get liberals to come to conservatism for the fiscal aspects of it…

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:10 PM

If you add all of the ages together, you get a number of years in the thousands.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:04 PM

How do you know the ages of all of them? How long were Adam and Eve in the Garden? You can take the creation as a literal 7 days but after that there’s no telling how much time passed going by the Bible.

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 4:11 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on February 7, 2011 at 4:09 PM

I disagree that they “are all good conservatives.”

Based upon their individual and group behavior here and on other comment streams, they are neither “good” nor “conservative.”

I realize they have their moments on some issues but neither of those two words well describes how they behave toward others here and what their views are (not Conservative).

I used to ignore but after a few years of their litterbox snarling, I really don’t think ignoring is the way to handle this issue.

Thanks for enjoying my comments, however, appreciate reading that.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:12 PM

God Ezra describes creating the earth in 7 days. He also says to him a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years are as a day to Him.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:05 PM

Though I guess the official line is that Genesis somehow comes from Moses.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:12 PM

I’m not at all surprised that the new testament made references to historical events or names — but that doesn’t say anything about the claims of the bible being “proven”.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:09 PM

actually that was from the old testament…so you don’t have anything to disprove the bible…and its been proven over and over and over again…so you just refuse to believe anything just because the bible says it…ok

the hittites were spoken of by the bible…no one believed it…then oops we found evidence the hittites existed…as far as david:

The House of David Inscription

The House of David Inscription (also known as the “Tel Dan Inscription”) was discovered in 1994 during excavations at the ancient city of Dan. It is considered by many to be the first reference to the “House of David” discovered outside the biblical text.

http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/the-house-of-david-inscription-faq.htm

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 4:12 PM

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 4:04 PM

You lost me here. Maybe I’m an idiot but what are you saying?

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 4:13 PM

That’s right; you religious zealots torment us all. Leave the judging to God and STFU!

Levinite on February 7, 2011 at 4:08 PM

yeah you fascists want to use gay marriage to shut us up.

have you starched your brown shirt today?

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 4:13 PM

How are you being attacked? You’re being questioned and asked to explain things. Does thinking about things a little more critically than the scientific paradigm of “God said it, I believe it, that settles it” cause you physical pain or suffering of some sort?

I didn’t mean attacked on this thread I meant attacked in this world which Christians have been and are.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:14 PM

I will and thank you for the links… I will go back and read because some think that all GOProud wants is to get liberals to come to conservatism for the fiscal aspects of it…

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:10 PM

Well, later now, I see that my first set of links/remarks WAS published (later than I posted it, thanks, though),

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 3:19 PM

so I just reposted remarks, links, but at least you have a place to start reading.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:14 PM

You lost me here. Maybe I’m an idiot but what are you saying?

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 4:13 PM

the bad lt think he knows so much about science, but when you ask him about things, he’s clueless…

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 4:14 PM

How do you know the ages of all of them? How long were Adam and Eve in the Garden? You can take the creation as a literal 7 days but after that there’s no telling how much time passed going by the Bible.

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 4:11 PM

Regardless, stringing together the lifetimes of all the persons that were supposed to form a chain from the first week gives you an upper bound.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:14 PM

Based upon their individual and group behavior here and on other comment streamslack of hatred of GOProud, CPAC, and anyone who disagrees with me on gay issues, they are neither “good” nor “conservative.”

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:12 PM

Fixed that for you.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:15 PM

That’s right; you religious zealots torment us all. Leave the judging to God and STFU!

Levinite on February 7, 2011 at 4:08 PM

To atheists and other Leftwingers, anyone who is a practicing, believing, faithful Christian is ridiculed as being a “religious zealot.”

To an atheist, Leftwinger, Christians ARE such. It’s too bad but it does point out the Left’s/Atheists’ religious intolerance.

We have Freedom of Religion, it’s best to keep it active lest it be cast aside by the Atheist/Leftwingers who continue to demand such. Their own intolerance is the problem for this nation, not Christianity.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:16 PM

So every human on Earth at the time, except for 8 people, were all sinners and deserved to die in floods that mysteriously appeared one day, covered the Earth, and then vanished. Yes…Thats what I’ve been saying yes!

He has his very well stated reasons.
For killing a child who did nothing wrong? What about the child’s right to live? The parents took his rights away, they should have put him on the boat…but they didnt because they didn’t believe.
Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:26 PM

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:17 PM

Fixed that for you.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:15 PM

Yes, you made funny dumb-dumb big do booboo.

What’s really sad about you, Mad Con, is that you don’t realize how badly you are viewed by so many.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:19 PM

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 4:12 PM

Again, the fact that the writers of the bible included references to what at the time would have been common knowledge names is to be expected and gives no proof of events. It doesn’t “prove it over and over”, let alone once. These are the kinds of things you expect from the best kept work of literature in the world.
Though I do admit miss-reading the old/new testament part.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:19 PM

Regardless, stringing together the lifetimes of all the persons that were supposed to form a chain from the first week gives you an upper bound.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:14 PM

How do you know the length of their lifetimes? How long was Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. I would say the Bible would suggest the number of years between Adam being expelled for Eden and today is probably somewhere in the thousands or tens of thousands but it only suggests it. It doesn’t state it so you can think whatever you want. If it was important to your salvation I think God would have made a point of being exact.

Rocks on February 7, 2011 at 4:20 PM

I like what a lot of you have said in regards to the whole should we care if Bob sodomizes Larry in the privacy of his own home.

I think the issue boils down to a few basic questions for those of us who have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and a good foundation in biblical exegesis:

1. What is our duty as Christians?
2. What is our duty as United States Citizens?

The problem I’m having in answering these questions is the shadow of conflict between speaking the truth in love (i.e. Sex outside of the heterosexual marriage is unnatural and wrong) and Paul’s teachings in 1 Corinthians 5:9-13. According to his letter to the church at Corinth, judgement of the non-Christian is reserved to God, while condemnation of the sins of those in the church is an accepted institution of tough love.

Now obviously our democracy requires us to give voice to our convictions on a regular basis. In doing so I routinely get caught in this mentality of Us versus Them. While I have no qualms debating the merits of an issue and exposing corruption and hypocrisy loudly and boldly I think it would be fair to say that doing so requires a firm foundation in love and that can only happen when pride is at its weakest.

“This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” 1 Timothy 1:15 That verse gives us the reason for why Paul was so effective at preaching. He properly understood God’s place and his own.

So as a Christian I will speak what I know to be true at all times but I will do it with love and an understanding of Who’s name holds the most importance (Jesus). Homosexuality is wrong and should never be encouraged. But don’t point at my fulfillment of duty and cry about how I’m legislating religion upon us all (because I could complain all day about the non-believers legislating non-belief upon us all). We all believe something and we all have an agenda we want to support. The Goal of Christianity is not to set up the United States as the Kingdom of God but to be good citizens of a Kingdom that is coming but has yet to arrive. Don’t be deceived. I am Christian first and Patriot second and everyone needs Jesus.

Dumbcollegekid on February 7, 2011 at 4:20 PM

What’s really sad about you, Mad Con, is that you don’t realize how badly you are viewed by so many.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:19 PM

that list would kill a lot of trees…

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 4:21 PM

Dumbcollegekid on February 7, 2011 at 4:20 PM

the question comes to down to whether we allow gay marriage, and christians lose freedom of religion and speech.

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 4:22 PM

1. What is our duty as Christians?
2. What is our duty as United States Citizens?
Dumbcollegekid on February 7, 2011 at 4:20 PM

I’d say it’s safe to say that (1.) should be kept in the realm of culture, because only (2.) has to do with the law.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:23 PM

“You must accept my assumptions if you want to debate.”

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 3:39 PM

I see what you did there… I said understand not accept. It is obvious he doesn’t accept, that is why we are in this discussion.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:24 PM

I will and thank you for the links… I will go back and read because some think that all GOProud wants is to get liberals to come to conservatism for the fiscal aspects of it…

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:10 PM

CWA’s Penny Nance Responds to GOProud Letter — 11/15/10 by Concerned Women of America
http://www.cwfa.org/content.asp?id=19651

…that has a link to the notorious “letter to the GOP” from GOProud in which they asked that “social issues” be excluded from the GOP.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:24 PM

the question comes to down to whether we allow gay marriage, and christians lose freedom of religion and speech.

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 4:22 PM

Or you could just strip the legal definition of marriage down to it’s procreative necessities.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:24 PM

What’s really sad about you, Mad Con, is that you don’t realize how badly you are viewed by so many.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:19 PM

You might be right, but I really don’t care, nor does it make my points about you any less valid. You have immersed yourself in ad hominem in this thread, and then mocked others for doing the same. Apart from being the worst kind of hypocrite, you’re also suffer from incredible intellectual dishonesty, as well as the delusion that conservative ideology is defined by one set of minor issues. I’ve got my own set of issues that is high priority to me: gun rights. However, I’m not going to drum someone out of the conservative movement solely because they don’t agree with me on every point of them. It takes either intense narcissism, intense hatred, or both, to have such a hopelessly myopic and dimwitted viewpoint as that. Which is it, Lourdes?

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:26 PM

*suffering

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:27 PM

I will and thank you for the links… I will go back and read because some think that all GOProud wants is to get liberals to come to conservatism for the fiscal aspects of it…

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:10 PM

CWA’s Penny Nance Responds to GOProud Letter — 11/15/10 by Concerned Women of America
http://www.cwfa.org/content.asp?id=19651

…that has a link to the notorious “letter to the GOP” from GOProud in which they asked that “social issues” be excluded from the GOP.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 4:24 PM

Like I said, a support group for subscribers to the gay community that realize that socialism is stupid.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:27 PM

Or you could just strip the legal definition of marriage down to it’s procreative necessities.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:24 PM

thats not what the gay rights movement is about…look at the catholic charities adoption in MA…they could get no exemption for their beliefs.

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 4:27 PM

However, I’m not going to drum someone out of the conservative movement solely because they don’t agree with me on every point of them. It takes either intense narcissism, intense hatred, or both, to have such a hopelessly myopic and dimwitted viewpoint as that. Which is it, Lourdes?

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:26 PM

To be honest, that kind of issue pandering is what the Democratic party if for.
Of course, in your case, you happen to be on the wrong side of one of their already established issues.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:29 PM

“You must accept my assumptions if you want to debate.”

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 3:39 PM
Not much to work with, is it?

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 3:42 PM

Do you think that I am upset at your sarcasm? I have nothing to lose here…

“You must accept my assumptions if you want to debate.”

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 3:39 PM
BIGOT!

Good Lt on February 7, 2011 at 3:44 PM

Would you like me to stop answering you? I give you responses out of respect for you but I can certainly stop… I guess this is what Jesus meant when he said not to cast your pearls before swine…

you have what God calls a “hard heart”. I believe that the Bible is the unrefutable Word of God. You need to understand that is you want to debate me.
CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 3:00 PM
“You must accept my assumptions if you want to debate.”

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 3:39 PM
CCRWM is pointing out your intolerance and avoidance of actual issue debate. CCRWM believes the Bible is the unrefutable Word of God and you ridicule it (as that and upon other terms).

You aren’t being told you “must accept” his/her beliefs, but that you acknowledge that that’s where CCRWM is coming from in order to “debate” ethical issues as ascribed by the Bible.

God tells us — in that Bible of His — that there’ll be more people such as yourself than there will be of those who believe and have faith on the terms He requests of us. So the ridicule you display is not surprising to anyone who believes.

Lourdes on February 7, 2011 at 3:44 PM

Correct

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:30 PM

thats not what the gay rights movement is about…look at the catholic charities adoption in MA…they could get no exemption for their beliefs.

right4life on February 7, 2011 at 4:27 PM

Your right. It’s not. Which is why they irritate me.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:30 PM

To be honest, that kind of issue pandering is what the Democratic party if for.
Of course, in your case, you happen to be on the wrong side of one of their already established issues.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:29 PM

Kick everyone out of a movement who doesn’t adhere strictly to a single combination of positions on the issues and you’ll quickly find yourself relegated to third-party status.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:31 PM

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:30 PM

Snarky, I can see, but I’m not seeing the sarcasm.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:31 PM

I see what you did there… I said understand not accept. It is obvious he doesn’t accept, that is why we are in this discussion.

CCRWM on February 7, 2011 at 4:24 PM

So we understand that your position is based on a mythology you believe with all your heart.

Great. Now how do we proceed with rational debate?

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 4:32 PM

1. What is our duty as Christians?
2. What is our duty as United States Citizens?
Dumbcollegekid on February 7, 2011 at 4:20 PM

I’d say it’s safe to say that (1.) should be kept in the realm of culture, because only (2.) has to do with the law.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:23 PM

I don’t believe for a second that our founding father’s asked us to divorce culture and law. It doesn’t make much sense to believe that a world-view defining belief could ever not have at least a formative influence on policy.

Dumbcollegekid on February 7, 2011 at 4:32 PM

Kick everyone out of a movement who doesn’t adhere strictly to a single combination of positions on the issues and you’ll quickly find yourself relegated to third-party status.

MadisonConservative on February 7, 2011 at 4:31 PM

It’s supposed to be agreement on principle, while issues in contention are shelved, as opposed to Democrats, where the only principle is that everybody should get service on their favorite issue.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:33 PM

DarkCurrent on February 7, 2011 at 4:32 PM

Prove that it is a mythology.

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 4:34 PM

I don’t believe for a second that our founding father’s asked us to divorce culture and law. It doesn’t make much sense to believe that a world-view defining belief could ever not have at least a formative influence on policy.

Dumbcollegekid on February 7, 2011 at 4:32 PM

That is the heart of the first amendment, as well as the limitation of federal power.

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:35 PM

Prove that it is a mythology.

kingsjester on February 7, 2011 at 4:34 PM

Why?

Count to 10 on February 7, 2011 at 4:36 PM

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