Video: Egyptian protests turning violent; Update: Shots fired?

posted at 9:30 am on February 2, 2011 by Ed Morrissey

What happens when pro-government protesters meet anti-government protesters in the streets of Cairo? Predictably, both sides get violent. CNN reports that for the moment the violence consists mostly of throwing shoes and rocks, but with no security to be seen at Tahrir Square, the violence is starting to spread:

This appears to be Hosni Mubarak’s answer to demands that he leave office immediately. Until yesterday, pro-government rallies had either not materialized or had been so low-key as to not attract much attention. Suddenly these rallies have begun appearing, and Tahrir Square is a high-profile location for them.

Why now? The army had already said that it would not intervene in the demonstrations as long as they remained peaceful and supported the “legitimate demands” of the people. If Mubarak wanted to get the army off the sidelines, the best way to do so would be to instigate violence and force the army’s hand.

However, that’s a dangerous game. Once violence starts, the leaders on the streets will be those most accustomed to it and most steeled against concerns over collateral damage. If the army doesn’t take the bait, what had been a pro-democracy push on the streets could easily turn into a radical Islamist putsch.

Update (AP): Your understatement of the day, courtesy of the Times: “President Obama’s calls for a rapid transition to a new order in Egypt seemed eclipsed on Wednesday as thousands of demonstrators for and against President Hosni Mubarak, some on horses and camels, fought running battles in and around Cairo’s Tahrir Square.” What’s the White House going to say about Mubarak rolling out his goon squad to clear the Square? Are we still in “orderly transition” mode, or is it now time for “Mubarak must go”?

Update (AP): Also, where’s the allegedly heroic Egyptian army while this is going on? Quote:

What about the Egyptian Army, which won accolades from the U.S. for not suppressing the anti-government demonstrations? It’s taking a hands-off approach, telling demonstrators that since everyone involved is a civilian, soldiers are not going to take sides. That’s according to anti-regime demonstrator Salma Eltarzi, who told Al Jazeera that she sees Mubarak’s game plan at work…

Al Jazeera reports that at least one building by the square has been set on fire. Coverage of the Army is now extremely critical: while soldiers have apparently set up some personnel carriers as barriers between the two sides, they haven’t stopped what the network described as a pro-government mob from pulling someone into its crowd and evidently beating him. Sultan al-Qassemi of The National tweets, referring to the defense minister and Army chief of staff, “Shame on the Egyptian Army. This is as low as they can get. What are Tantawi & Anan waiting for, a massacre or a stampede? Disgusting.”

Update (AP): Did the army know this was coming? A military spokesman went on TV this morning to tell protesters that their voices have been heard and that it’s now time to go home and restore “stability.” Maybe that was their way of trying to clear the Square peacefully before the goons rolled in and tried to do it by force.

Update (Ed): Reuters reports that shots have been fired in Tahrir Square, although no one knows by whom; the army denies firing any shots.


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AL Jazeera’s english website is down too hmm.

William Amos on February 2, 2011 at 9:33 AM

1979

portlandon on February 2, 2011 at 9:34 AM

Licking their chops

Iran said on Tuesday the uprising in Egypt will help create an Islamic Middle East but accused US officials of interfering in the “freedom seeking” movement which has rocked the Arab nation.

“With the knowledge that I have of the great revolutionary and history making people of Egypt, I am sure they will play their role in creating an Islamic Middle East for all freedom, justice and independence seekers,” Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi was quoted as saying on state television’s website.

William Amos on February 2, 2011 at 9:35 AM

a radical Islamist putsch.

I believe those are the underpinnings of it anyway. Best to get the terrorists into the light of day.

csdeven on February 2, 2011 at 9:35 AM

The same technique worked in Iran a couple years ago.

RBMN on February 2, 2011 at 9:36 AM

If Mubarak wanted to get the army off the sidelines, the best way to do so would be to instigate violence and force the army’s hand.

So Ed is actually buying into the left-wing spin that the Egyptian protestors/Muslim brotherhood supporters are “peaceful” and only want a democracy with human rights for all? And that the Egyptian people will be better off with Mubarak out of power and a Muslim brotherhood government/theocracy ruling? And that this is good for Israel and America? Please.

That the army is finally dealing with these Muslim brotherhood protestors pouring out of the mosques is good sign.

Gabe on February 2, 2011 at 9:37 AM

What’s the White House going to say about Mubarak rolling out his goon squad to clear the Square? Are we still in “orderly transition” mode, or is it now time for “Mubarak must go”?

……

Neither. It’s time for 18 holes!

artist on February 2, 2011 at 9:38 AM

William Amos on February 2, 2011 at 9:33 AM

It’s back up now. Really getting nasty out there. In Egypt, not Al Jazeera!

Dino64 on February 2, 2011 at 9:39 AM

“Turning violent”? Been that way for several days, almost since the beginning.

Skandia Recluse on February 2, 2011 at 9:40 AM

Dear leader will wait for a response by Mubarak then he’ll.talk….is MO during this crisis

The blm will hail his response

cmsinaz on February 2, 2011 at 9:41 AM

Gabe on February 2, 2011 at 9:37 AM

Agreed. It sure looked to me like the MB was just being given power without a fight. I am amazed by this whole story.
Carter Part II: The Egypt Chapter

ORconservative on February 2, 2011 at 9:42 AM

Our pom-pom media is very confused by all this. Especially when the bottom line out of all of it is how can they make Obama look good. They don’t care about the people of Fgypt or it becoming an Islamist state.

It’s all about The O.

JammieWearingFool on February 2, 2011 at 9:43 AM

Amen JWF

cmsinaz on February 2, 2011 at 9:45 AM

Media calls them “pro-Mubarak” protestors — just as likely they are Muslim Brotherhood extremists.

debg on February 2, 2011 at 9:45 AM

If the army won’t turn on the anti-govt protesters, it shouldn’t turn on the pro-govt protesters.

OldEnglish on February 2, 2011 at 9:45 AM

That’s right.
“Anderson Cooper punched in the head” made me laugh. Not because he was punched but because these idiots are so fricking clueless.

ORconservative on February 2, 2011 at 9:46 AM

Only one way to solve the biggest threat we (the world) have from this region of the world.

Nuke Mecca.

BowHuntingTexas on February 2, 2011 at 9:49 AM

I dont doubt that pro Mubarik supporters would attack the meida. They would see it as an enemy.

But for CNN to be playing propaganda right now is not a good thing. Just say they were attacked they dont have to point fingers.

William Amos on February 2, 2011 at 9:49 AM

Exactly william…how do they know who attacked them…friendly fire so to speak?

cmsinaz on February 2, 2011 at 9:50 AM

BowHuntingTexas on February 2, 2011 at 9:49 AM

There is no reason for US to do that. But if I were the nutjob Islamics I would worry about starting another war with Israel. It wont be Damascus or Cairo that will be the first nuke target. It will be Mecca.

William Amos on February 2, 2011 at 9:51 AM

If this is about the economy, why are they throwing their shoes? Have you seen how much a pair of Air Bin Ladens cost, they aren’t exactly cheap.

Bishop on February 2, 2011 at 9:52 AM

Both the Al Jazeera and Al Arabiya websites are down.

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 9:53 AM

What evidence do we have that these guys on the camels and horses aren’t Muslim Brotherhood? Seems more their style. And why would Mubarik’s army not handle this? And do the police there normally ride camels and horses, carry whips to hit people with? Seems I saw a pic of them earlier in the week in their riot geer. They didn’t seem this “5th Century” at the beginning of the week. I call B.S.

UnderstandingisPower on February 2, 2011 at 9:53 AM

Demonstrations turning violent…big f’in deal! Let them kill each other for a while. Maybe at one point or the other they will begin to question their premises regarding their lives. Like religion, freedom, the rights of man etc etc…until then nothing they do will matter. Which means that we should support any thug who promises to keep the wilder among them down. So that training camp

PierreLegrand on February 2, 2011 at 9:53 AM

Why isn’t Amampour over there? Or is she? Maybe she’s brushing up on her English accent…

SouthernGent on February 2, 2011 at 9:53 AM

UnderstandingisPower on February 2, 2011 at 9:53 AM

Because they keep finding police ID’s on people when they rip them off the horses/camels? The army won’t publicly act on the protesters, so Mubarak is paying thugs to do it.

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 9:55 AM

If you see people looking for and jumping in front of the camera…arrest them because they are terrorists. Pretty simple. I bet you would have a 90% success rate.

tomas on February 2, 2011 at 9:55 AM

Why doesn’t Israel just line up some bulldozers on Temple hill in Jerusalem and say something like, “ya know, first sign of troops coming across our borders, or weapons, missles, etc…. these bulldozers roll, and down goes the Dome of the Rock. Next up, some friendly bombers over Mecca. Don’t like it? Don’t invade. You leave us alone, we leave you alone. Capiche?”

Why wouldn’t that work? I mean, if it is out and out obvious, and we all know the Joooooos are evil, etc.– wouldn’t the first Muslim to do something be blamed for the loss of their sites too?

Vanceone on February 2, 2011 at 9:55 AM

William Amos on February 2, 2011 at 9:51 AM

The only reason not to do it now is because we didn’t to it 9/12/2001.

I agree though that if they threaten Israel it’ll be Armageddon.

BowHuntingTexas on February 2, 2011 at 9:56 AM

William Amos on February 2, 2011 at 9:49 AM

What makes you think they’re propagandizing?

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 9:56 AM

Only one way to solve the biggest threat we (the world) have from this region of the world.

Nuke Mecca.

BowHuntingTexas on February 2, 2011 at 9:49 AM

Well, that will certainly take their minds off Mubarak, but I don’t see how that helps us.

RBMN on February 2, 2011 at 9:57 AM

Why wouldn’t that work? I mean, if it is out and out obvious, and we all know the Joooooos are evil, etc.– wouldn’t the first Muslim to do something be blamed for the loss of their sites too?

Vanceone on February 2, 2011 at 9:55 AM

These are people who strap bombs to babies. Threats that make rational sense dont to them.

William Amos on February 2, 2011 at 9:57 AM

What makes you think they’re propagandizing?

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 9:56 AM

Its a chaotic situation in egypt. No one really knows who is doing what. Its like the Tuscon situation wait till there are facts then make a conclusion.

William Amos on February 2, 2011 at 9:58 AM

Because they keep finding police ID’s on people when they rip them off the horses/camels? The army won’t publicly act on the protesters, so Mubarak is paying thugs to do it.
ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 9:55 AM

Sure because it isn’t as if terrorists have ever masqueraded as cops or soldiers in order to escape suspicion and gain access.

But hey, let’s give the benefit of the doubt to the terrorist group over the dictator. Or we could just accept that both sides aren’t exactly pure as driven snow.

Bishop on February 2, 2011 at 9:59 AM

Interesting re Anderson Cooper because in an Islamic state, his head would not be punched; it would be lopped off.

Andy McCarthy has a great commentary: “Fear the Brotherhood” in which he describes the MB’s history or violence and connections with Leftist ideology. The Islamists’ definition of “social justice,” like ObaMao’s is very much like that of the Marxists. It despises capitalism and embraces redistribution.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/258419/fear-muslim-brotherhood-andrew-c-mccarthy

Through the media’s nefarious efforts, the public is being duped into thinking that the anti-Mubarak forces will be a force for economic freedom. They couldn’t be more wrong.

onlineanalyst on February 2, 2011 at 10:00 AM

William Amos on February 2, 2011 at 9:58 AM

They have a better idea than you give them credit for. I mean, for 2 days now it’s been clear that the police and interior ministry are donning plain clothes and hiring others to step things up a notch. While the CNN cats may only just be getting wise to this, Arab media has been reporting this for days.

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:01 AM

Worth a read. What we’re not seeing reported.

Today the Egyptians are scared. They have been given a glimpse of hell and they don’t like what they see. Contrary to Al Jazeera’s propaganda, the Egyptian masses are not demonstrating anymore. They are protecting their homes and families. The demonstration last night had 5,000 political activists participating and not 150,000 as Al Jazeera insists. At this moment, no one outside of those political activists cares less now if the President will resign or not. They have more important concerns now; security and food.

Security wise the situation is a disaster. It might take months to arrest all those criminals again. Moreover no one has a clue how the weapons that were stolen will ever be collected again or how the security will ever regain its necessary respect to restore public order after it was defeated in 4 hours. More importantly, reports indicate that the borders in Gaza were open for the past few days. What exactly was transferred between Gaza and Egypt is anyone’s guess.

You seem to wonder after all of this where El Baradei and the Egyptian opposition are. CNN’s anointed leader of the Egyptian Revolution must be important to the future of Egypt. Hardly! Outside of Western media hype, El Baradei is nothing. A man that has spent less than 30 days in the past year in Egypt and hardly any time in the past 20 years is a nobody. It is entirely insulting to Egyptians to suggest otherwise. The opposition you wonder? Outside of the Muslim Brotherhood we are discussing groups that can each claim less than 5,000 actual members. With no organization, no ideas, and no leaders they are entirely irrelevant to the discussion. It is the apolitical young generation that has suddenly been transformed that is the real question here.

JammieWearingFool on February 2, 2011 at 10:04 AM

But hey, let’s give the benefit of the doubt to the terrorist group over the dictator. Or we could just accept that both sides aren’t exactly pure as driven snow.

Bishop on February 2, 2011 at 9:59 AM

But you’re not doing that. You’re giving the dictator the benefit of the doubt, and dishonestly characterizing the anti-Mubarak protesters as terrorists. I mean, I understand that you support dictatorship, and have all sorts of ideological biases against democracy (all Hobbesian, Burkean conservatives do), but you can’t characterize the protesters as terrorists.

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:06 AM

Arab media has been reporting this for days.

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:01 AM

They’re reliable.

/

artist on February 2, 2011 at 10:06 AM

What a shame… ya can’t believe anything come’n out of the media. Well I guess that’s the price we pay

roflmao

donabernathy on February 2, 2011 at 10:08 AM

What makes you think they’re propagandizing?

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 9:56 AM

We have brains and are capable of critical thinking, unlike you who are a product of socialist and marxist school teachers.

darwin-t on February 2, 2011 at 10:09 AM

The Story of the Egyptian Revolution
By Sam Tadros (In Egypt)

As the world stands in awe, confusion, and worry at the unfolding events, perhaps it is important to write the evolving story that is happening in Egypt before any reflections can be made on them.

Egyptians might not know what democracy actually means, but that does not make the concept any less desirable. Perhaps it is precisely its vagueness and abstraction that makes the concept all the more desirable.

maverick muse on February 2, 2011 at 10:10 AM

ernesto: The anti-Mubarak protesters (primarily the young and unemployed) have been duped into accepting that the MB will offer them economic justice. They are being duped.

Read the article at JWF’s link and my own by McCarthy. They may provide you with a more balanced view.

onlineanalyst on February 2, 2011 at 10:11 AM

Update (AP): Did the army know this was coming? A military spokesman went on TV this morning to tell protesters that their voices have been heard and that it’s now time to go home and restore “stability.” Maybe that was their way of trying to clear the Square peacefully before the goons rolled in and tried to do it by force.

Respectfully, WHAT A CROCK!

Again, it’s the world media throwing fuel on the fire.

Earlier this morning:

Judith Miller is prophesizing while prostituting the scene in Egypt—in one breath, Miller says Mubarak must step down immediately because this is what the anti-government protesters are calling for—along with President Obama, (who should have kept his big mouth shut), and then, in the next breath, while recognizing pro government protesters gathering in mass, says “this is a pure Egyptian conflict, and the U.S. is marginal at best in its influence”

Mubarak pro government forces/sympathizers gathered in massive numbers in Cairo. What is transpiring is two strong forces clashing in the middle of the streets chanting for their causes respectively while throwing rocks. Watching the surge of thousands going back and forth almost like the tides of an ocean running into a narrow river, the surges of each faction is simply dramatic in its own right. Only the confusion/bias of the world media reporting the scene is more comedy than what the world is witnessing, with scrolling headlines that say “Massive protest turns violent”. Powerless to shape the conflict, (or describe who’s winning or losing), the media, (including American cable news and their pundits)

MSNBC has a foreign reporter attempting to say that gunfire has erupted, yet there seems to be no such vision of panic had gunfire actually happened. Now he’s saying the organized pro Mubarak supporters have taken their frustrations out on the foreign reporters.

All this shakes out while the Egyptian Army takes a complete neutral stand, doing nothing to attempt to stop the clash as it unfolds. The foreign reporters, including the U.S. press corps is almost aghast that there might be “some other force” finally calling the pro Mubarak forces as a well organized faction—now blaming the Army as being complicit in this new uprising by doing nothing. Now the MSNBC is calling this a deliberate response by Mubarak forces (the goon squads) —speculating that as the two factions collide in the square, this will be an excuse to call back in the riot police forces to disperse the anti-government protesters.

Like I said, it’s almost a comedy listening to the media pundits speculate and pontificate on what’s going on right before their eyes. As this dramatic conflict unfolds, it is almost surreal that a major conflict can be accomplished/settled with by who can throw a rock accurately and who can’t.

CNN online headline:

Egypt crisis: Army believed to be entering square; Mubarak supporters ring square; gunfire heard
What a crock!!!!

There is NO GUNFIRE!

More from CNN:

[Update 4:23 p.m. Cairo, 9:23 a.m. ET] Some members of the Egyptian Army were believed to be entering Tahrir Square. Military vehicles were separating pro- and anti-Mubarak demonstrators, and several gasoline bombs had been tossed, CNN’s Anderson Cooper said.

Rovin: Where’s the video Anderson???? Gas bombs????? Really????

The biggest “crisis” is the comedy of reporting IMO.

Rovin on February 2, 2011 at 10:15 AM

Why CNN shouldnt feed the narrative

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/201122124446797789.html

He said that though the army had put up barricades around the square, they let the pro-Mubarak supporters through.

The people on horses are pro-Mubarak supporters, they are a very angry crowd looking for anyone working for Al Jazeera and for Americans. They are trying to get on the other side of the army tanks to get to the anti-Mubarak supporters. More and more pro-Mubarak supporters are coming in

William Amos on February 2, 2011 at 10:16 AM

onlineanalyst on February 2, 2011 at 10:11 AM

While I’m aware of that, I’m not sure how relevant that is to the current discussion, which is focused more on the actual goings on of the demonstrations. The nature of the protesters grievances, the MB’s role, and the ramifications of both for Egyptian society is a much more complicated issue that frankly cannot be distilled into an article or two. Regardless, the notion that the protesters are terrorists is a ridiculous generalization. It is also quite obvious to me that many here are letting their Hobbesian, totalitarian flags fly by explicitly supporting dictatorship.

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:18 AM

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:06 AM

I am amazed that people can believe the hype and then you come along and, although I’m still amazed, I realize the belief is complete and deep.
Hope and change baby!

ORconservative on February 2, 2011 at 10:19 AM

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:01 AM

I’ve been watching this pretty closely too.

Ernesto is probably right about it being the former security forces.

However, I don’t know how anyone can tell the difference between honest political feeling driving them, and a pay check from Mubarak, because they are always paid by the government…they are the official police force.

The word was that their pay checks didn’t come on time yesterday.

Another sign that the pro-Mubarak crowd is the same people as the police… they have tear gas.

Regardless, there are two groups now and they are fighting each other. The protesters said they were going to give their lives if necessary to get Mubarak out. It looks to me like the pro-Mubarak forces decided to test their resolve.

The formerly peaceful protesters are calling for women and children to go home.

The army has said they will enforce the curfew today because the protesters have been heard and it is time to get back to normal.

Good luck with that.

There is another call for huge protests on Friday. They are tracking the pattern of what happened in Tunisia and the President there apparently made a similar speech on Tuesday and the protesting continued… the security forces started violence in the streets, then the President fled the country on Friday.

I doubt this is going to resolve until Mubarak takes an extended vacation…

The one thing we now know, it that Mubarak is not going to be President next year. The future of Egypt is going to be with someone involved in the protests.

Our government is now safe to abandon Mubarak and work toward getting the most western friendly new government possible. If we continue to stick with Mubarak now, we lose the future of Egypt to the most radical element.

Just like Iran.

petunia on February 2, 2011 at 10:19 AM

It’s either “security stood by and did nothing as people were beaten and shot” or “security marched in with batons and guns, beating and shooting people”. Life is tough. How can anyone think this will be a controlled or peaceful revolution. The only thing preventing anarchy in the U.S. is a firm commitment to the rule of law. Egypt as in many other countries lacks that.

Paul-Cincy on February 2, 2011 at 10:20 AM

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 9:53 AM

No, they’re not down. I’ve just been watching streaming video from both websites. They may have cut off access from the US, but it’s working fine here in London. I repeat the sites are not down.

Dino64 on February 2, 2011 at 10:22 AM

Regardless, the notion that the protesters are terrorists is a ridiculous generalization. It is also quite obvious to me that many here are letting their Hobbesian, totalitarian flags fly by explicitly supporting dictatorship.

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:18 AM

The main organizers of these demonstrations have been the MB a known terrorist organization. The first big planned demonstration was ‘Day of Rage’ just like the Chicago riots of ’68. But that hits too close to the truth for revolutionaries like you Che.

darwin-t on February 2, 2011 at 10:23 AM

Dino64 on February 2, 2011 at 10:22 AM

I had the Al Jazeera stream working this morning, but currently their site just will not load. Even the CNN stream has dropped the audio feed entirely.

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:23 AM

Dino64 on February 2, 2011 at 10:22 AM

They were down breifly. I just was able to get on Al Jazeera. Probably just internet overload.

William Amos on February 2, 2011 at 10:24 AM

darwin-t on February 2, 2011 at 10:23 AM

Simply untrue. These demonstrations went for days before the MB even made a statement. Besides, the MB is not on our list of terrorist organizations.

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:24 AM

I’m sorry but where ever you are getting the information that the former security forces just went home and are watching on TV are flat out wrong.

What is going on here? I can’t believe the Hot Air people are so ill informed today. Where are you getting your info? All the headlines on all the news sources are saying the same thing.

It is not proven that the pro-Mubarak forces are police, but then who are they?

It started in Alexandria last night. They were chanting pro-Mubarak slogans.

Who ever they are they are violent and against the changes.

There is nothing left or right… as far as America is concerned. It is just the way it is.

petunia on February 2, 2011 at 10:24 AM

I had the Al Jazeera stream working this morning, but currently their site just will not load. Even the CNN stream has dropped the audio feed entirely.

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:23 AM

I had it cut out this morning too. I just got it back 10 minutes ago but it took 3 minutes to load.

Electrongod on February 2, 2011 at 10:27 AM

CNN is reporting (text) that they can’t confirm “instigators” being present. That would seem like a walk back a bit from their earlier claims.

Weight of Glory on February 2, 2011 at 10:27 AM

Why doesn’t Israel just line up some bulldozers on Temple hill in Jerusalem and say something like, “ya know, first sign of troops coming across our borders, or weapons, missles, etc…. these bulldozers roll, and down goes the Dome of the Rock. Next up, some friendly bombers over Mecca. Don’t like it? Don’t invade. You leave us alone, we leave you alone. Capiche?”

Why wouldn’t that work? I mean, if it is out and out obvious, and we all know the Joooooos are evil, etc.– wouldn’t the first Muslim to do something be blamed for the loss of their sites too?

Vanceone on February 2, 2011 at 9:55 AM

Intriguing idea…bet some may be mulling over it.

ProudPalinFan on February 2, 2011 at 10:28 AM

CNN also reporting that Molotov cocktails are now being thrown.

Weight of Glory on February 2, 2011 at 10:28 AM

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:18 AM

ernesto: The anti-Mubarak forces have been manipulated by the terrorists because the protesters feel themselves righteously angry over their society’s inequities.

Ironically, Gamal Mubarak, Hosni’s son, was opening up capitalistic opportunities for Egypt, according to the American Thinker piece written by an Egyptian.

onlineanalyst on February 2, 2011 at 10:28 AM

AL Jazeera’s english website is down too hmm.

William Amos on February 2, 2011 at 9:33 AM

I actually think it is overloaded not down. I thought so too, but then I got the feed again.

petunia on February 2, 2011 at 10:29 AM

Simply untrue. These demonstrations went for days before the MB even made a statement. Besides, the MB is not on our list of terrorist organizations.

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:24 AM

Do you know how to pay attention? The MB didn’t have to make a statement to be involved. When an organization incites rioting they don’t send out a press release and they spawned Hamas and AQ. Once again your ability to think for yourself is mind numbing.

darwin-t on February 2, 2011 at 10:30 AM

Besides, the MB is not on our list of terrorist organizations.

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:24 AM

And why are they not on that list of terrorist organizations? ObaMao has been coddling and welcoming them for years. Please, read McCarthy’s history of that organization.

onlineanalyst on February 2, 2011 at 10:31 AM

“The people on horses are pro-Mubarak supporters, they are a very angry crowd looking for anyone working for Al Jazeera and for Americans. They are trying to get on the other side of the army tanks to get to the anti-Mubarak supporters. More and more pro-Mubarak supporters are coming in
William Amos on February 2, 2011 at 10:16 AM

Watching the media attempt to write “the script” is truly an amazing spectacle in itself William.

Horses and Camels, and Whips, oh my!

Rovin on February 2, 2011 at 10:33 AM

And, ernesto, McCarthy is not just some blogger with a keyboard. He was a federal prosecutor who became quite familiar with Islamist ways. Read his book, The Grand Jihad.

onlineanalyst on February 2, 2011 at 10:33 AM

onlineanalyst on February 2, 2011 at 10:31 AM

I’m familiar with the history of that organization. Either way, the MB is not designated a terrorist organization. This was the case during the Bush administration as well. The fact remains that aside from a prison break a few months ago, they are a non-violent organization.

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:34 AM

This appears to be Hosni Mubarak’s answer to demands that he leave office immediately.

Possibly, but there are other possibilities, too. The demonstrations the last few days have been very large, but Cairo is a city of 18 million people. It’s possible, just possible, that there are significant numbers who would prefer Mubarak to stay in office until the transition to a new government is in place, rather than depart now leaving a vacuum for the Muslim Brotherhood to fill.

ProfessorMiao on February 2, 2011 at 10:35 AM

This is just an observation: Egypt turns back on their internet capabilities and President Obama calls for Mubarak to step down immediately yesterday. The answer from pro Mubarak supporters is go f**k yourself.

Why didn’t Obama just keep his mouth shut instead of pouring fuel on the anti-Mubarak fire??? Hummmm?

Rovin on February 2, 2011 at 10:41 AM

Why didn’t Obama just keep his mouth shut instead of pouring fuel on the anti-Mubarak fire??? Hummmm?

Rovin on February 2, 2011 at 10:41 AM

Isn’t he doing exactly what you gave him hell for NOT doing during the Iranian protests?

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:43 AM

It’s possible, just possible, that there are significant numbers who would prefer Mubarak to stay in office until the transition to a new government is in place, rather than depart now leaving a vacuum for the Muslim Brotherhood to fill.

ProfessorMiao on February 2, 2011 at 10:35 AM

Excellent summation PM. Possible and probable.

Rovin on February 2, 2011 at 10:44 AM

ernesto, why do you think that is?
The way it looks is that Obama was not on the side of the protesters in Iran and he is one the side of the protesters in Egypt.
What are your thoughts?

ORconservative on February 2, 2011 at 10:46 AM

Indeed rovin @ 10:33

They are propping up who they like and assuming those they don’t ad the culprits

cmsinaz on February 2, 2011 at 10:46 AM

This is just an observation: Egypt turns back on their internet capabilities and President Obama calls for Mubarak to step down immediately yesterday. The answer from pro Mubarak supporters is go f**k yourself.

Why didn’t Obama just keep his mouth shut instead of pouring fuel on the anti-Mubarak fire??? Hummmm?

Rovin on February 2, 2011 at 10:41 AM

Because Mubarak is the past.

Whatever comes next is what we must deal with.

If we stay on Mubarak’s side at this point we have no influence over who eventually gets power.

It is time to throw Mubarak under the bus.

For the sake of Israel, we have to keep influence.

I dont’ think Obama has the intelligence to understand this, but hopefully there is a foundation still available, and like many of his other concessions… I hope Obama is listening to the former administration’s diplomats.

I hope we do not do what we did with the Shah. We have to run to the front of this parade and lead!

petunia on February 2, 2011 at 10:47 AM

they are a non-violent organization.

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:34 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8293816/Egypt-crisis-Muslim-Brotherhood-blames-America-for-the-unrest.html

America’s alliances are being exposed, one by one,” he told The Daily Telegraph on Monday. “You can take in the view from Tunisia to Egypt, Lebanon, Yemen and even Palestine to see what has happened.”

Mr Erian was one of 34 Muslim Brotherhood leaders arrested in advance of last Friday’s demonstrations but released when prisons were emptied on Saturday night. He arrived in Tahrir Square on Sunday evening to a hero’s welcome, and told the crowds they would hold fast “however many martyrs there are”.

William Amos on February 2, 2011 at 10:47 AM

Barry and the Brotherhood aren’t going to get their instant power vacuum without a fight. And, once the Islamists are in power, the army will sit on it hands while they ruthlessly crush civil society, since the army has established it won’t take sides when it’s “the people” attacking “the people.”

And you won’t hear one peep out of the Islamist enablers then.

Christien on February 2, 2011 at 10:48 AM

The way it looks is that Obama was not on the side of the protesters in Iran and he is one the side of the protesters in Egypt.
What are your thoughts?

ORconservative on February 2, 2011 at 10:46 AM

Hopefully, whoever is making the decisions this time is learning that we could have had a change of government in Iran last year and we didn’t!!!!

I don’t for a moment think Obama is doing anything right, other than allowing former Bush people to make decisions this time.

petunia on February 2, 2011 at 10:49 AM

Isn’t this whole thing just “Gangs of New York” Middle East style? Gang war in NYC, Chicago, St.Louis, or East LA doesn’t bring down the government. Why should it in Egypt?

What Egypt needs is a constitutional convention, and more agriculture; they have the water. Egypt invented irrigation.

Skandia Recluse on February 2, 2011 at 10:51 AM

ORconservative on February 2, 2011 at 10:46 AM

Well, let me first say that I was as disappointed as you during the Iranian protests. I was out at demonstrations, and he was twiddling his thumbs. If I were to venture a guess as to the major differences that have changed his tune, I suppose our status as patron of the Egyptian dictatorship gives us more of a responsibility. With Iran, the US govt already opposed them; Obama going out and calling for the mullahs to step down would have amounted to spitting into the wind. With Egypt, he has considerable leverage, and has decided to use it.

It could still backfire, in that he will be unable to cozy up to any opposition figures without getting that figure labelled as an American lackey (like Mubarak).

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:52 AM

Isn’t he doing exactly what you gave him hell for NOT doing during the Iranian protests?

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:43 AM

Nice strawman ernie…..and who’s “you”???

Did Obama call for Ahmadinejad to step down? NO, it was not his place, just as calling for Mubarak to step down immediately is not his place. Shouldn’t “the people” decide what’s best for their leadership—and when?

Rovin on February 2, 2011 at 10:54 AM

It is also quite obvious to me that many here are letting their Hobbesian, totalitarian flags fly by explicitly supporting dictatorship.

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:18 AM

I believe it was Biden that told the Nation that Mubarak was “not a dictator”.

Your idea that “Conservatives back dictatorships” is partisan and a pretty clear sign of ignorance.

Mubarak has been supported by democrats and Republicans for decades.

Now if you want to see the support of dictatorships…look no further than your liberal base who support and love the Hugo’s and Fidel’s of the world.
It was a high ranking democrat up there at the podium months ago quoting “Mao” with affection….not Republicans.

The most organized,well connected,and well armed force in Egypt to fill this vacuum of power is the Muslim Brotherhood……is this a good sign to you ernesto??????

Baxter Greene on February 2, 2011 at 10:54 AM

Isn’t this whole thing just “Gangs of New York” Middle East style? Gang war in NYC, Chicago, St.Louis, or East LA doesn’t bring down the government. Why should it in Egypt?

What Egypt needs is a constitutional convention, and more agriculture; they have the water. Egypt invented irrigation.

Skandia Recluse on February 2, 2011 at 10:51 AM

My husband said it looked like Detroit after the won a championship. Only we couldn’t see cars burning.

petunia on February 2, 2011 at 10:55 AM

If Mubarak wanted to get the army off the sidelines, the best way to do so would be to instigate violence and force the army’s hand.

Really Ed? What possible incentive does Mubarak have for this to turn violent? The MB would be the instigators in this scenario.

stefanite on February 2, 2011 at 10:57 AM

Well I gotta give the Mubarak side some points, if you’re going to beat down protestors you may as well do it in style, from the back of a charging camel.

jarodea on February 2, 2011 at 11:04 AM

The word instigators is interesting.

Instigators are in the eye of the beholder I suppose, like one person’s freedom fighter is another person’s terrorist, depending on which side you are on.

I believe that if we don’t get out of the mindset that Mubarak is a good guy… we lose this thing to the MB.

They aren’t burning American flags. And I read a tweet yesterday that some in the crowd started chanting Allah Akbar, and the rest of the crowd shouted them down. I think that is an excellent sign.

All of these people are Muslims… there is going to be a Muslim outcome.

petunia on February 2, 2011 at 11:04 AM

Victor Davis Hanson asks, “Are They Nuts?”

There are all sorts of unattributed quotes being reported in the press from “Obama administration officials” and “White House staff members” to the effect that we can work with the Muslim Brotherhood since it has “renounced violence,” a lunacy that summed up the assorted back-door American pilgrimages to France to consult with the “reasonable” Khomeini — who, remember, on arrival in Iran swore that he was not interested in secular power.

Apparently Obama & Co. have no historical understanding of the Iranian debacle: The Carter administration’s problem was not just its shabby and indecisive clinging to/pushing out/disowning an ailing Shah, but that it (a) at first thought the murderous Islamists were at least better than the corrupt Shah; (b) then that it could finesse radical Islamists; (c) and finally that pampered Europhile intellectuals could stand up to radical-Islamic killers and thugs.

If this administration is sending out peace feelers through back channels to the Muslim Brotherhood, or trying to triangulate by having aides leak namby-pamby praise of a supposedly non-violent Brotherhood, then it all but will ensure a Shah/Banisadr/Khomeini sequence in Egypt by fall. They should cease all such suicidal talk now, since even whispers of it help to doom moderates and anti-Islamists in the street, as well as the dying Mubarak regime’s promise to keep enough order to allow a transition to follow.

onlineanalyst on February 2, 2011 at 11:04 AM

Well I gotta give the Mubarak side some points, if you’re going to beat down protestors you may as well do it in style, from the back of a charging camel.

jarodea on February 2, 2011 at 11:04 AM

I think that is a sign that they aren’t government backed… they couldn’t get the cars, so they took camels. But I don’t know that. It just seems like a sign.

I do think it is silly to think that if there are huge crowds that make your favorite politician grovel on national TV, you just stay home. I think all of this is honestly organic revolutoin.

petunia on February 2, 2011 at 11:06 AM

Isn’t he doing exactly what you gave him hell for NOT doing during the Iranian protests?

ernesto on February 2, 2011 at 10:43 AM

If Mubarak was heading up the country that was considered the leading sponsor of terrorism in the world and had pledged time and again to “wipe Israel off the map”, you might have a point.

Mubarak’s record on human rights is atrocious…real similar to the record of the Chinese leader that Obama was wining and dining and bowing to the other day while pushing the Dali Lama out the back with the trash.

……Mubarak did his best to keep the radical Islamist devoid of any real power…. that is night and day from Ahmadinejad.

So while the leader of Iran,the leading sponsor of terrorism around the world…..
……the country responsible for thousands of American deaths including many US Soldiers…..
…….the country that was massacring it’s citizens in the streets because they demanded “fair elections”…
Obama whined about how much they are trying to accommodate Ahmadinejad and the mullahs.


We do not interfere in Iran’s internal affairs. We have condemned terrorist attacks against Iran. We have recognized Iran’s international right to peaceful nuclear power. We have demonstrated our willingness to take confidence-building steps along with others in the international community. We have accepted a proposal by the International Atomic Energy Agency to meet Iran’s request for assistance in meeting the medical needs of its people. We have made clear that if Iran lives up to the obligations that every nation has, it will have a path to a more prosperous and productive relationship with the international community.”

….anyone paying attention knows there is a big difference between the relationship of Mubarak to the West than that of Ahmadinejad.

Baxter Greene on February 2, 2011 at 11:07 AM

If we stay on Mubarak’s side at this point we have no influence over who eventually gets power.

It is time to throw Mubarak under the bus. petunia on February 2, 2011 at 10:47 AM

I’m not necessarily saying “we” should take sides at all Pet. What I said was, even after Mubarak announces he will step down, (in a transition and maybe too long), why did Obama clearly call for an immediate resignation? It’s not clear what his motive was to call for an accelerated disposal. Does throwing Mubarak under the bus so quickly give any nation’s interest the ability to “influence” the outcome? Can you assume that the transition of power right now, (today) is the answer?

Rovin on February 2, 2011 at 11:09 AM

onlineanalyst on February 2, 2011 at 11:04 AM

Do you have a link to Hanson?

I’m interested in what he thinks should be done next. Surely he doesn’t think we should just stay away? I think we need to be supporting whoever is not MB but has some backing.

petunia on February 2, 2011 at 11:10 AM

Rovin on February 2, 2011 at 11:09 AM

I think the longer we wait the more power the MB has.

Right now they have been illegal and probably there is some stigma in that.

I think polling shows that as of right now Egyptians don’t like AQ or even Hamas much.

I think now is the time when whoever rises starts rising and if we don’t put in our two cents… discreetly… we won’t have any power to influence to outcome.

Also, we are involved. We can’t pretend we aren’t.

The whole of the Middle East was waiting to hear what side we would take. They don’t like us, but they still look to us to lead.

petunia on February 2, 2011 at 11:14 AM

Your idea that “Conservatives back dictatorships” is partisan and a pretty clear sign of ignorance.

Mubarak has been supported by democrats and Republicans for decades.

Baxter Greene on February 2, 2011 at 10:54 AM

Typical leftist strawman BS. They are smart enough to know the sudden and radical overthrow of Mubarek will result in a colossal loss of American influence in the Middle East and threaten the Isreali/Egypt peace accord. I feel for the Egyptian women who will be first in line to suffer if the MB comes in and instills Sharia law…replete with public stonings in time for afternoon tea. They don’t have a voice in any of this it seems.

RepubChica on February 2, 2011 at 11:18 AM

Victor Davis Hanson asks, “Are They Nuts?”
onlineanalyst on February 2, 2011 at 11:04 AM

Hanson answered his own question. Great post onlineanalyst.
Pretty scary when we really don’t know where Obama’s House even stands or supports. Why should this nation have to guess who Obama would like to come into power?

Rovin on February 2, 2011 at 11:20 AM

JammieWearingFool on February 2, 2011 at 10:04 AM

I linked that article last night from American Thinker. Very interesting that Gamal was moving the Egyptian economy out of the hands of the military/former military and that we now have the E army WAITING almost til there is violence and a call for them to restore order.

So Obama isn’t on the side of true business/political growth but playing into the hands of the Egyptian army.

journeyintothewhirlwind on February 2, 2011 at 11:21 AM

Does throwing Mubarak under the bus so quickly give any nation’s interest the ability to “influence” the outcome?

Rovin on February 2, 2011 at 11:09 AM

People with no agenda instinctively know the answer to this: No, it does not. But if you’re looking for chaos, death-matches, and you wanna keep the fires burning in Cairo then it’s the way to go for a revolution, man!

RepubChica on February 2, 2011 at 11:24 AM

Looking at the video, does Egypt appear to be a place that is capable of holding fair elections? If the answer is no, then ask yourself who is most likely to steal power.

stefanite on February 2, 2011 at 11:25 AM

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/anderson-cooper-attacked-mob-egypt-95628

Well, I dont condone Anderson Cooper getting punched, but what did he expect. He’s a handsome rich American in some stone age sh!thole that hates all three of those things, in the middle of a national riot. It would be like if Lexington Steele went to a Klan rally, then an hour later was on twitter saying, “WTF!”

Ugly on February 2, 2011 at 11:26 AM

RepubChica on February 2, 2011 at 11:18 AM

Exactly….

You would think that the excitement coming from Iran about these events would give them a clue as to what awaits once the clueless MSM is done making fools of themselves.This has played out in Iran,Lebanon and to some extent in Gaza….with the results leading to more power for the radical Islamist.

Baxter Greene on February 2, 2011 at 11:28 AM

I assume that if the border with Gaza is unattended, that those poor starving ‘palestinian refugees’ from Gaza must be streaming across the border into Egypt, right?

Most of they are Egyptians anyway.

slickwillie2001 on February 2, 2011 at 11:36 AM

True conservatives: We don’t want government anywhere. But please, Mubarak, roll tanks over those who want even the minimal level of freedom.

The sheer hypocrisy of true conservatives and the hatred which fills their heart is just amazing.

rightistliberal on February 2, 2011 at 11:38 AM

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