Coptic Christian pope to Mubarak: We are all with you

posted at 6:27 pm on January 31, 2011 by Allahpundit

Not true, of course. There are multiple reports of some Copts joining the protests. But bear this in mind if/when the Muslim Brotherhood gets its seat at the table in the new government and the inevitable whitewash among U.S. analysts begins. The Christian leaders who know them best, who’ve co-existed with them for decades, still prefer an out-and-out fascist to whatever the Brotherhood has in mind.

Fear of what may follow the removal of Mr. Mubarak, a secular strongman who has ruled the country for the past 30 years, is making reluctant supporters out of the country’s Christians, an estimated 10% of Egypt’s 80 million population. Mr. Mubarak has been aggressive in pursuing perceived Islamist extremist groups, a policy that has endeared him to Coptic Christians, not to mention the U.S.

Many Copts worry that Mr. Mubarak’s exit would leave them dangerously exposed—either by chaos, or to a government that may be more tolerant of Islamist extremists.

Pope Shenouda III, head of the Coptic Church, expressed support for Mr. Mubarak in an interview with Egyptian state television on Monday. “We have called the president and told him we are all with you and the people are with you,” Mr. Shenouda said, according to a transcript of the interview on the state television’s website.

The White House says it’s had no contact with the Brotherhood thus far, but that’s bound to change soon. Speaking of which, what do the group’s spokes-fundies think about the protests and the prospects of a new government? Reaction varies from member to member. We’ve got the creepy biding-our-time-until-we-can-pounce guy:

By far, the Brotherhood represents the most powerful force, but Mr. Beltagui and another Brotherhood official, Mohamed el-Katatni, said the group understood the implications of seeking leadership in a country still deeply divided over its religious program.

“We’re supporting ElBaradei to lead the path to change,” Mr. Beltagui said as he joined him in Liberation Square. “The Brotherhood realizes the sensitivities, especially in the West, towards the Islamists, and we’re not keen to be at the forefront.”

“We’re trying to build a democratic arena before we start playing in it,” he said.

We’ve got the vaguely threatening ElBaradei-works-for-us-now guy:

However, there have been some signs of disagreement within the opposition, with the largest group, the Muslim Brotherhood, appearing to go back on its endorsement of leading figure Mohamed ElBaradei as a negotiator with Mr Mubarak.

A spokesman for the Muslim Brotherhood, Mohamed Morsy, told the BBC: “The Muslim Brotherhood is much stronger than Mohamed ElBaradei.”

We’ve got the old familiar anti-American populist guy:

Esam al-Erian, a senior member of the executive council, said the West’s fears for Egypt’s future were due to America’s “foolish policies”.

“America’s alliances are being exposed, one by one,” he told The Daily Telegraph on Monday. “You can take in the view from Tunisia to Egypt, Lebanon, Yemen and even Palestine to see what has happened.”

And then, of course, we’ve got this guy:

Mohamed Ghanem, one of the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, calls Egypt to stop pumping gas to Israel and prepare the Egyptian army for a war with it’s eastern neighbor.

Speaking with Iranian television station Al-Alam, Mohamed Ghanem blamed Israel for supporting Hosni Mubarak’s regime. Ghanem also said that the Egyptian police and army won’t be able to stop the Muslim Brotherhood movement.

In fairness to Ghanem, the Muslim Brotherhood has no monopoly on hating Israel in Egypt. According to a BBC World survey taken last year, Israel’s favorable rating inside the country is 3/92. No typo. Which is merely your latest reminder that no matter who emerges from all this — Islamists or liberals — Sunni tensions with Israel across the region are headed skyward. The only question is whether Egypt’s next powers-that-be will consider war or stick to standard-issue rhetorical demonization. Probably the latter, at least in the short-term: As Robert Kaplan said on Friday, “whatever the outcome of these uprisings, it seems clear that Arabs and their new leaders will be focused for years to come on the imperfections within their own societies — perhaps to a greater degree than on injustices committed by Israel and the West abroad.” There’s reason to believe he’s right, but economic progress will be a long haul. What reason is there to believe that, when the next government finds itself in a pinch domestically, it won’t resort to demagoging the region’s favorite scapegoat as a way out?

As a counter to the despair over the Brotherhood’s rise to power, read Daniel Pipes (who’s not known for Middle East optimism) for why the fears might be overstated. Mubarak is on his way out, but Mubarak’s never been our closest Egyptian ally. The military is, and the military stands to make big money in the coming years from the U.S. and the Saudis as payment for keeping the jihadist elements in Egypt in line.


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There will be a pogrom against Christians if Islamists prevail and come to power. They will never allow that high number of Christians to exist freely within Egypt.

IronDioPriest on January 31, 2011 at 6:31 PM

The military is, and the military stands to make big money in the coming years from the U.S. and the Saudis as payment for keeping the jihadist elements in Egypt in line.

Are these tics in the ‘jobs saved or created column?’

Inanemergencydial on January 31, 2011 at 6:31 PM

I have to think in the next 10 years the world will have some (please excuse the reference) “come to Jesus moments”. Islam was spread by the sword, as their Prophet did. How else will it be contained or controlled? Islam is an expansionist and exclusionary political force. It must be stopped, sooner or later.

Paul-Cincy on January 31, 2011 at 6:33 PM

…if/when the Muslim Brotherhood gets its seat at the table in the new government and the inevitable whitewash among U.S. analysts begins. The Christian leaders who know them best, who’ve co-existed with them for decades, still prefer an out-and-out fascist to whatever the Brotherhood has in mind.

Include this “non Coptic” Christian in that group, if for the sole reason that Barack Obama is “urging” Mubarak out. That indicates a substantial problem with what may lie ahead if/when Mubarak is replaced.

And I have noticed (already) the “U.S. analysts” having begun their framing analysis — several already this morning making the Egyptian situation about class and stating outright (as if they know) that “the Muslim Brotherhood is not involved”.

There is ample evidence to even us laypeople here in the West that the Muslim Brotherhood is not only “involved” but responsible for the violence and amplification of threat conditions. Obviously, and why this stinks to me, is that the Obama White House with corresponding State is laying hard into a propaganda effort to both out Mubarak and to try to grub onto whatever “change” occurs in Egypt, posing as heroic.

Lourdes on January 31, 2011 at 6:35 PM

What about some Coptics being anti-semetic? I’m just curious…

Gob on January 31, 2011 at 6:37 PM

I asked our pastor to pray for the Copts during our intercessions, prayers and supplications at my Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod parish in Divine Service yesterday.

OmahaConservative on January 31, 2011 at 6:37 PM

From the moment I first heard about the protests, it was the Copts that sprang to the forefront of my mind. Oh Lord Jesus protect your church in Egypt.

I cannot imagine the strain and pressure that Shenouda is under right now. I do hope he is seeking the guidance of our Lord in making his decisions now. Especially with this. The MB already hates the Copts for being Christian, if they gain real power then backing Mubarak will make things so much worse for the Coptic Church.

Shogun144 on January 31, 2011 at 6:38 PM

So nobody knows what happens next, or where it’s going to go.

Skandia Recluse on January 31, 2011 at 6:39 PM

Well if blaming Israel doesn’t work, they can always blame Palin’s crosshairs.

John the Libertarian on January 31, 2011 at 6:42 PM

I blame Obama. He started this mess when he gave his “historic” speech in Egypt after he got elected President.

Johnnyreb on January 31, 2011 at 6:44 PM

I’ve been praying about this for days. It is like our world is teetering on the edge.

I wish freedom for the People of the middle east and an end to the deception of the islamic agenda that enslaves and entraps its people from the joy of life itself.

IMHO, this domino could tilt either way. With Obama at the helm there is an incredible amount of uncertainty.

My family is preparing for the uncertainty, because we know who, and what Obama is.

Too many eruptions, too many places, all at once. Let’s all be Boy Scouts and Be Prepared.

Key West Reader on January 31, 2011 at 6:44 PM

What about some Coptics being anti-semetic? I’m just curious…

Gob on January 31, 2011 at 6:37 PM

Compared to whom? Muslims?! Take the Christians out of any environment, see what happens.

Lourdes on January 31, 2011 at 6:46 PM

I should have added to my post at 6:44pm above that the islamic agenda seems very closely aligned with the Progressive and Liberal agendae.

Key West Reader on January 31, 2011 at 6:46 PM

It’s clever in the short term. Now, Mubarak has to protect the Copts, or look weak. If he can’t even protect his supporters, he’s politically dead.

RBMN on January 31, 2011 at 6:46 PM

I blame Obama. He started this mess when he gave his “historic” speech in Egypt after he got elected President.

Johnnyreb on January 31, 2011 at 6:44 PM

Yep. Exactly right.

Lourdes on January 31, 2011 at 6:47 PM

There will be a pogrom against Christians if Islamists prevail and come to power. They will never allow that high number of Christians to exist freely within Egypt.

IronDioPriest on January 31, 2011 at 6:31 PM

They do not exist freely now, but you are right that as soon as the radical fundamentalists gain a foothold there will be more persecution of the Copts, more mutilation of the women and then the protests will turn their attention to Israel and the US. This is another foreign policy failure where Obama has straddled the fence, showed a total lack of leadership and let indecision prove to be more harmful than a bad decision.

fourdeucer on January 31, 2011 at 6:48 PM

Well if blaming Israel doesn’t work, they can always blame Palin’s crosshairs.

John the Libertarian on January 31, 2011 at 6:42 PM

I am prepared to blame her eyebrow shape with perfect tweeze and her well fitted and designed suits. And those glasses. Don’t get me started on those awesome pumps, yo.

Yes, and Israel. Oh, and I almost forgot… we must blame Israel and America. And GWB. And the Tea Party.

Key West Reader on January 31, 2011 at 6:49 PM

Lourdes on January 31, 2011 at 6:46 PM

No, I am just curious if people KNOW how anti-Jewish the Copts are. I was quite shocked when I found out. I just think this is an element that should NOT be so hidden.

I don’t know much about it myself and would like to learn more. Being so, I am not having a hard-line position as I have more research to do, admitingly. But it makes me uneasy.

The Copt Pope has said some anti-Jew thing in papers and will NOT go to Jerusalem due to “occupation”.

I am just trying to learn more about this as I never knew this ’til recently.

Gob on January 31, 2011 at 6:53 PM

This is smart on their part.

SouthernGent on January 31, 2011 at 6:54 PM

kingsjester on January 31, 2011 at 6:48 PM

I like your blog; all well thought out posts with links. Have you contacted Right Network?

Key West Reader on January 31, 2011 at 6:58 PM

So, what’s to stop Islamists from infiltrating Egypt’s military and intelligence services, just like in Pakistan?

Christien on January 31, 2011 at 6:58 PM

The Christian leaders who know them best, who’ve co-existed with them for decades, still prefer an out-and-out fascist to whatever the Brotherhood has in mind.

So now Mubarak is a fascist? Do you even know what fascists means?

Murphy9 on January 31, 2011 at 7:00 PM

Isn’t Hussein Obama a member of the Muslim Brotherhood? If he’s not, he might as well be.

Murphy9 on January 31, 2011 at 7:02 PM

Key West Reader on January 31, 2011 at 6:58 PM

No, ma’am. I haven’t.

kingsjester on January 31, 2011 at 7:03 PM

As Robert Kaplan said on Friday, “whatever the outcome of these uprisings, it seems clear that Arabs and their new leaders will be focused for years to come on the imperfections within their own societies — perhaps to a greater degree than on injustices committed by Israel and the West abroad.”

Yes a Muslim would rather be introspective and self critical while focusing on correcting the self imposed societal damage coming from being a slave of Allah.

BL@KBIRD on January 31, 2011 at 7:07 PM

Pope Shenouda III, head of the Coptic Church

Answer to the question, “is the Pope, Catholic”?

Vince on January 31, 2011 at 7:17 PM

This is hardly anything that can’t be associated with historical precedent, in time of upheaval the strong or stealthy survive in a changing majority Muslim state if Coptic Christians can’t hide or defend themselves they better leave.

Speakup on January 31, 2011 at 7:21 PM

There will be a pogrom against Christians if Islamists prevail and come to power. They will never allow that high number of Christians to exist freely within Egypt.

IronDioPriest on January 31, 2011 at 6:31 PM

ME “Christians” are not your average Catholic or Protestant neighbors down the street.

In fact, they are more than likely to side with islamists when it comes to slicing and dicing and stoning people to death (e.g. adulterers, drug users, homosexuals, etc.).

They would love nothing more than to see Israel blown off the map.

BowHuntingTexas on January 31, 2011 at 7:24 PM

ME “Christians” are not your average Catholic or Protestant neighbors down the street.

In fact, they are more than likely to side with islamists when it comes to slicing and dicing and stoning people to death (e.g. adulterers, drug users, homosexuals, etc.).

They would love nothing more than to see Israel blown off the map.

If your average Catholic or Protestant neighbors down the street are neoconservatives then they’re quite happy for Iraq and Egypt’s Christian communities to be wiped out or ethnically cleansed as collateral damage in the cause of a utopian “Freedom Agenda”.

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 7:47 PM

BowHuntingTexas on January 31, 2011 at 7:24 PM

BHT…sadly, that is what I’m finding too. Have more to look at, but it was shocking to me.

Gob on January 31, 2011 at 7:48 PM

I didn’t know the orthodox called any of their clergy “Pope”. I thought they were patriarchs. Reunification of the Church may be closer than I thought! My question…do they have multiple popes?

Goldenavatar on January 31, 2011 at 7:53 PM

The Coptic Christian-backed Mubarak maintains a peace with Israel, one which the Christian-murdering Muslim Brotherhood will dispense with as soon as the dopey neoconservatives/Obamaites have helped them into power.

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 7:59 PM

If your average Catholic or Protestant neighbors down the street are neoconservatives then they’re quite happy for Iraq and Egypt’s Christian communities to be wiped out or ethnically cleansed as collateral damage in the cause of a utopian “Freedom Agenda”.

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 7:47 PM

I don’t know any Western Catholics or Protestants who want any communities wiped out or ethnically cleansed.

Gob on January 31, 2011 at 7:48 PM

Might start with Sirhan Sirhan – the guy who assassinated RFK. He’s a Palestinian “christian” and a member of the PLO.

BowHuntingTexas on January 31, 2011 at 8:01 PM

In the Jerusalem Post, Barry Rubin argues that Obama is repeating exactly the disastrous mistakes that Carter made with Iran in 1979.

Without learning lessons from past, Obama gambles that anti-American Islamist government allied with Iran won’t emerge from the chaos.

When polled recently, 59% of Egyptians said they backed the Islamists and only 27% favored modernizers.

And it seems to be adopting a policy that, while somewhat balanced, is pushing the Egyptian regime out of power. The situation could not be more dangerous and might be the biggest disaster for the region and Western interests since the Iranian revolution three decades ago.

Experts and news media seem to be overwhelmingly optimistic, just as they generally were in Iran’s case. Wishful thinking is to some extent replacing serious analysis. Indeed, the alternative outcome is barely presented: This could lead to an Islamist Egypt–if not now, then in several years.

Now, here are the precedents for the latter situation: Remember the Iranian revolution when all sorts of people poured out into the streets to demand freedom? Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is now president.

Remember the Beirut spring when people poured out into the streets to demand freedom? Hizbullah is now running Lebanon.

Remember the democracy among the Palestinians and free elections? Hamas is now running the Gaza Strip.

Remember democracy in Algeria? Tens of thousands of people were killed in the ensuing civil war.

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 8:04 PM

BowHuntingTexas,

Can you tell what conclusion should we draw from your statements?

Someone said that when the Islamists attain power they will massacre the Coptic Christians which is most likely true. Then you pointed out that the Copts don’t Israel.

Therefore what?

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 8:07 PM

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 7:59 PM

Aengus, sometimes “neo-conservative” is used as a anti-jewish slang. I guess I need clarity in what you mean by NC. I’m a bit confused.

Gob on January 31, 2011 at 8:08 PM

don’t Israel==don’t support Israel

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 8:08 PM

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 8:07 PM

Aengus, BHT is correct. And you are too. Yes, the Islamists WILL slaughter the Copts…and it is true that
the Copts are anti-Jew. Copts call Jews “Christ Killers” and will not go to Jerusalem because they believe the Jews “occupy” it and that Jews have blood on their hands re: Palestinians.

Gob on January 31, 2011 at 8:11 PM

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 8:08 PM

Sorry for the cut and paste, I thought I was pretty clear:

ME “Christians” are not your average Catholic or Protestant neighbors down the street.

They are more than likely to side with islamists when it comes to slicing and dicing and stoning people to death (e.g. adulterers, drug users, homosexuals, etc.).

BowHuntingTexas on January 31, 2011 at 8:12 PM

Aengus, sometimes “neo-conservative” is used as a anti-jewish slang. I guess I need clarity in what you mean by NC. I’m a bit confused.

Gob on January 31, 2011 at 8:08 PM

Very few people use “neocon” as an anti-Jewish slang word. Nobody uses “neoconservative” as a slang word for anything.

I mean by the term “neoconservative” what neoconservatives themselves mean by it. The article “The Neoconservative Persuasion: What it was, and what it is” by Irving Kristol which appeared in the Aug. 25, 2003 edition of the Weekly Standard.

I’m talking here specifically about the neoconservative belief in spreading democracy to the Middle East (and universally) through military or other means, as an ongoing ideological project.

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 8:16 PM

There will be a pogrom against Christians if Islamists prevail and come to power. They will never allow that high number of Christians to exist freely within Egypt.

IronDioPriest on January 31, 2011 at 6:31 PM

How sad. It wasn’t long ago that Christians were converting everyone, by book or by gun. Now they’re persecuted again.

Makes you want to cry.

DarkCurrent on January 31, 2011 at 8:16 PM

Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.

Sorry had to throw that in there with the recent persecution and migration of Christians from the ME.

iceman1960 on January 31, 2011 at 8:18 PM

ME “Christians” are not your average Catholic or Protestant neighbors down the street.

They are more than likely to side with islamists when it comes to slicing and dicing and stoning people to death (e.g. adulterers, drug users, homosexuals, etc.)

Well if they support those aspects of sharia law I haven’t heard it. Has there been any statements to the effect that the Copts support executing homosexuals etc.?

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 8:20 PM

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 8:16 PM

Ok, thanks for the clarity.

Gob on January 31, 2011 at 8:21 PM

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 8:20 PM

I don’t have anything bookmarked but start with Sirhan Sirhan who assassinated RFK. He was a Palestinian “christian” and member of the PLO.

BowHuntingTexas on January 31, 2011 at 8:27 PM

I don’t have anything bookmarked

But is your statement that are “likely” to side with the Muslim Brotherhood re the implementation of sharia law based on anything substantial.

It’s true that a Palestinian terrorist abd so-called Christian murdered RFK. And a Catholic fanatic murdered Henry III of France.

It doesn’t mean that all Mid-East Christians are indistinguishable from Islamic jihadists.

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 8:33 PM

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 8:33 PM

If your average Catholic or Protestant neighbors down the street are neoconservatives then they’re quite happy for Iraq and Egypt’s Christian communities to be wiped out or ethnically cleansed

Ya got me.

By the way, it’s the “ifs” that get ya.

It’s there if you just search.

BowHuntingTexas on January 31, 2011 at 8:38 PM

By the way, it’s the “ifs” that get ya.

?

It’s there if you just search.

What’s there if I just search?

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 8:43 PM

If I were a Coptic living in Egypt, I’d leave and try to convince others to do the same.

Machiavelli Hobbes on January 31, 2011 at 8:43 PM

The difference between Carter and Obama is that Carter accidentally gave us Islamofascist Iran, Obama will do it deliberately.

clnurnberg on January 31, 2011 at 8:47 PM

How sad. It wasn’t long ago that Christians were converting everyone, by book or by gun. Now they’re persecuted again.

Makes you want to cry.

DarkCurrent on January 31, 2011 at 8:16 PM

You show amazing capacity for compassion. It must all be part of your douchey Buddhist-free of desire schtick.

Inanemergencydial on January 31, 2011 at 8:53 PM

Searching for information on the Coptic Church and homosexuality I see that the Copts consider homoseuxality to be a sin, urge homosexuals to repent and quote numerous passages from the Bible that condemn homosexuality on web sites.

But how is that any different from any other Christian sect? There’s no reason to suppose that Copts endorse sharia-like punishments. Many Middle Eastern Christians are in communion with the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.

I see no good reason to throw the Copts under the Islamic bus, even rhetorically, unless one is an anti-Christian maniac generally.

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 8:54 PM

Let’s see… someone has to go back at least 50 years and find ONE so called christian assassin?
That tells me a lot right there.

iceman1960 on January 31, 2011 at 9:07 PM

Speaking as a Greek Orthodox Christian, our church is almost in complete communion with the non-Chalcedonian churches, of which the Coptic is one. Also, my roommate is a Copt, and just based on my own experience I’d have to say that Copts dislike Muslims far more than Jews as some have claimed here. Probably due to the fact that Copts, who were the original Egyptians, were conquered by the Arabs hundreds of years ago, and continue to be oppressed to this day. Just something to think about before you go condemning an entire group of people you probably just read about in the past few days.

kithara86 on January 31, 2011 at 9:39 PM

Inanemergencydial on January 31, 2011 at 8:53 PM

Is your head about to implode? Does it hurt?

DarkCurrent on January 31, 2011 at 11:50 PM

Probably due to the fact that Copts, who were the original Egyptians, were conquered by the Arabs hundreds of years ago, and continue to be oppressed to this day.

kithara86 on January 31, 2011 at 9:39 PM

The original Egyptians were Coptic Christians?

DarkCurrent on February 1, 2011 at 12:11 AM

The original Egyptians were Coptic Christians?

DarkCurrent on February 1, 2011 at 12:11 AM

What I’m saying is that those who are Copts are descended from the Egyptians of the past; they’re the ones who built the pyramids and all that.

kithara86 on February 1, 2011 at 2:07 AM

the military stands to make big money in the coming years from the U.S. and the Saudis as payment for keeping the jihadist elements in Egypt in line.

I wonder how much the administration’s hesitation is to appease the military leadership… who almost by definition have to be Mubarak supporters to have risen so high.

The military may see the inevitable but they don’t want their guy disrespected.

I’m hoping they broker something soon before they start burning our flag.

I don’t want to see Obama burned in effigy. No matter how much I disagree with him and don’t like him… he is still my President and I’d like his image not to be burned.

petunia on February 1, 2011 at 3:08 AM

The original Egyptians were Coptic Christians?

DarkCurrent on February 1, 2011 at 12:11 AM

I’m pretty sure most of the Pyramids are older than 2000 years… but I may be wrong.

petunia on February 1, 2011 at 3:10 AM

The Coptic Christian-backed Mubarak maintains a peace with Israel, one which the Christian-murdering Muslim Brotherhood will dispense with as soon as the dopey neoconservatives/Obamaites have helped them into power.

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 7:59 PM

Where do you get this myth that the Copts like Mubarak? They don’t. They showed the country how to protest against Mubarak and the authorities. Mubarak is even quoted as blaming them.

lexhamfox on February 1, 2011 at 3:37 AM

I don’t know any Western Catholics or Protestants who want any communities wiped out or ethnically cleansed

Gob

Look up what was happening in the Balkans during WW2, where the Catholic Church in Croatia openly endorsed Ante Pavelic and the fascist Ustashe regime, who were allies with both Hitler and Muslim Albania. Together they conducted their own genocide campaign against the Serbian Orthodox population, murdering half a million Serbs in ways that reportedly disgusted their Nazi allies. And none of these criminals were ever brought to justice at Nuremberg.

When this started to occur again after the dissolution of Yugoslavia, the Serbs hit them back and hard. So when a handful of Muslim refugees start crying to our gullible media, we went and dropped bombs on Serbian schools, hospitals and churches. Israel then went along with the rest of the brainwashed world to endorse the theft of Kosovo by an Islamic thug regime. Kind of like ‘blood libel”, I guess no other race of people is allowed to use the phrase “never again”.

As a Greek Orthodox Christian, I am quite used to ignorance and bigotry of the ancient church here in the U.S. so I suppose it was only a matter of time before I would experience it on this site.

OlympicLeprechaun on February 1, 2011 at 6:11 AM

The original Egyptians were Coptic Christians?

DarkCurrent on February 1, 2011 at 12:11 AM

I’m pretty sure most of the Pyramids are older than 2000 years… but I may be wrong.

petunia on February 1, 2011 at 3:10 AM

Let me break this down a little. Ancient Egyptians built all the pyramids and other monuments down there in the Dynastic ages. Later on they were conquered by the Romans. The Roman Empire eventually became Christian under Constantine. The Empire also became politically, and religiously divided into East and West. West became Catholics, and East became Orthodox. Egypt was part of the East, and Alexandria was the seat of one of the original Patriarchs. After the collapse of the Eastern Roman empire, both Greece and Egypt ended up being conquered by Islamic peoples. Greece was fortunate enough to eventually get free, but since the Muslims conquered all the way across northern Africa into Spain, Egypt had no such luck. So those who are ethnically Copt are in fact the people who are descended from the original Egyptians. I hope this history lesson helps put some of this in perspective.

kithara86 on February 1, 2011 at 6:54 AM

Where do you get this myth that the Copts like Mubarak? They don’t.

I said that they were backing him which they are. Look at the title of this thread. In politics, who you back publically is what matters.

aengus on February 1, 2011 at 8:15 AM

If your average Catholic or Protestant neighbors down the street are neoconservatives then they’re quite happy for Iraq and Egypt’s Christian communities to be wiped out or ethnically cleansed as collateral damage in the cause of a utopian “Freedom Agenda”.

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 7:47 PM

Pretty damn ignorant statement there.

Please, since you’re so keen on demanding others provide “proof” of their statements, point to ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE of ONE SINGLE NEOCONSERVATIVE who wants ANY christian community wiped out or ethnically cleansed.

When you fail in this endeavor (and you will), please apologize to the HOTAIR community forthwith. Refusing to do so risks me giving you the Jimbo3 treatment. Thanks.

runawayyyy on February 1, 2011 at 9:19 AM

I’ll change “quite happy” to “indifferent” but that’s it.

Neoconservatives are ideologues who are willing to gamble with other people’s lives in pursuit of their utopian ends.

aengus on February 1, 2011 at 9:28 AM

Not gonna do it, huh? Not even the apology for slandering these people so completely? Ok then.

Please, dear moderators, we have now seen a horrible example of the bigotry coming from aengus here. It would be most appreciated if you could enforce your own rules and bring down the ban hammer on this little bigot. Your help is most welcome.

runawayyyy on February 1, 2011 at 9:33 AM

Not gonna do it, huh? Not even the apology for slandering these people so completely?

I didn’t slander anyone, silly. I made a general reference to hypothetical Catholic and Protestant neoconservatives. You can’t slander a political tendency. You can libel someone on the internet if you use their name.

Please, dear moderators, we have now seen a horrible example of the bigotry coming from aengus here. It would be most appreciated if you could enforce your own rules and bring down the ban hammer on this little bigot. Your help is most welcome.

I broke no rules. On this thread you had people trying to misrepresent Mid-East Christians as being similar to or as bad as Islamic jihadists in order to make it okay to throw them under the Islamic bus.

aengus on February 1, 2011 at 9:49 AM

If your average Catholic or Protestant neighbors down the street are neoconservatives then they’re quite happy for Iraq and Egypt’s Christian communities to be wiped out or ethnically cleansed as collateral damage in the cause of a utopian “Freedom Agenda”.

aengus on January 31, 2011 at 7:47 PM

THIS is what you said. If you truly believe that any neoconservative is “quite happy” for this outcome, then you should certainly be able to provide one shred of evidence. If you can’t, it is merely the bigoted rantings of a diseased mind, and certainly slanderous.

And since you refuse to apologize for it, instead choosing to try and make everyone think you meant something completely different (or was it “indifferent”), we can only assume you believe it as originally stated. Now apologize, or I will repost this and every future example of your bigotry, altogether, every time you show it, from here on out. Jimbo3 didn’t appreciate this treatment either, but then he got banned for it.

runawayyyy on February 1, 2011 at 10:00 AM

instead choosing to try and make everyone think you meant something completely different

Okay, I apologise for using the words “quite happy”. That was gratuitous. But my views on the immorality of fomenting “democratic” revolutions that only get a whole lot of people killed haven’t changed.

It isn’t slander. What it would be – if I had been referring to an actual named person, which I wasn’t – is libel.

aengus on February 1, 2011 at 10:05 AM

I wasn’t trying to make anyone think I meant something different.

I said:

I’ll change “quite happy” to “indifferent” but that’s it.

“I’ll change” meaning I’ll alter my opinion.

aengus on February 1, 2011 at 10:16 AM

Sounds an awful lot like “I apologise if anyone was offended” to me. Let me ask you, do you really think anyone who could be identified as a neoconservative would really be indifferent if ANY christian community ANYWHERE was wiped out or ethnically cleansed (your words)? Really?

I keep chewing this bone because by your own definition these neoconservatives want to force democratic government on people who would likely be better off with it, given the totalitarian (and certainly anti-freedom) bent of their current setups. I’m not sure how you get from your definition of their ideology to the indifference you ascribe to them. Perhaps you could describe that leap for us.

runawayyyy on February 1, 2011 at 12:24 PM