Moody’s, S&P issue warning to US on bond ratings

posted at 10:12 am on January 13, 2011 by Ed Morrissey

Mind you, these are the same bond-rating agencies that Congress has blamed for the financial collapse in 2008 for being too lenient with their credit ratings — specifically, on those holding government-endorsed mortgage-backed securities, or derivatives directly or indirectly related to them.  Now Moody’s and S&P are setting off alarms over the debt ratios of the United States and warn that our AAA ratings may be in danger.  A downward evaluation could send bond markets into a panic, and would at the least cost the US a fortune in debt service for any future borrowing:

Two leading credit rating agencies on Thursday cautioned the U.S. on its credit rating, expressing concern over a deteriorating fiscal situation that they say needs correction.

Moody’s Investors Service said in a report Thursday that the U.S. will need to reverse an upward trajectory in the debt ratios to support its triple-A rating.

“We have become increasingly clear about the fact that if there are not offsetting measures to reverse the deterioration in negative fundamentals in the U.S., the likelihood of a negative outlook over the next two years will increase,” said Sarah Carlson, senior analyst at Moody’s.

Standard & Poor’s Corp. on Thursday also didn’t rule out changing the outlook for its U.S. sovereign-debt rating because of the recent deterioration of the country’s fiscal situation. The U.S. currently has a triple-A rating with a stable outlook at both agencies.

Kevin Williamson puts the problem in these terms at The Corner:

If you think the 2008 financial crisis was bad, ask yourself this: Who is big enough to bail out the United  States? Answer: Nobody.

Note to Washington: If you thought the Tea Party looked like an angry mob, wait until you see what happens when Social Security checks start bouncing.

That’s not just gloomy speculation, either.  As Steve Eggleston wrote earlier this week, Social Security has run cash deficits for most of 2010, meaning that the SSA has paid benefits mostly through borrowing.  It will take a big hit in revenue this year, thanks to the 2% “holiday” created by the tax deal in the lame-duck session.  Unless we maintain our bond rating or if we cut other spending enough to get the cash from the general fund, we may wind up having a big problem in covering those liabilities.

This makes the imperative to seriously cut spending all the more urgent.   We cannot run deficits that amount to a third of our budget any longer, and we can’t afford to tax our way up to the spending level at which we currently operate.  We have to start cutting large amounts from pretty much all phases of federal government, and especially need structural reforms in entitlements to genuinely reduce spending rather than just slow the rate of increases.  And that has to happen now.

Update: Steve sends this further explanation:

At least as far as the SocSecurity “Trust Funds” are concerned, there won’t be any effect because the law provides for a transfer of funds from the general fund equal to the reduction in FICA/SECA tax (see page 14 of the enrolled bill – http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111hr4853enr/pdf/BILLS-111hr4853enr.pdf specifically section e).

However, that method is worse for the country as a whole than simply not collecting the money.  Because the amount that will be transferred won’t be offset by any spending cuts, we’re going to be borrowing money to borrow money, and paying interest not once but twice.  Only in government….

Blowback

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But isn’t Social Security checks bouncing all part of the plan?

search4truth on January 13, 2011 at 10:16 AM

Jobless claims up, possibly losing our bond rating, but da*n that pep rally was great.

We’re all unified to cheer for more Obama cowbell.

BuckeyeSam on January 13, 2011 at 10:17 AM

The system is beginning to self-correct, and all the obfuscation of the left with the Tucson shooting can’t change it. Time to pay the fiddler.

Meanwhile the GOP’s economic recovery plan consists of cutting the Caesar vinaigrette dressing from the lunch menu in the Congressional dining room.

Bishop on January 13, 2011 at 10:18 AM

And that has to happen now.

It won’t.

playblu on January 13, 2011 at 10:18 AM

Together we thrive!

/

cmsinaz on January 13, 2011 at 10:21 AM

The left dearly wants that to happen. Anything to spur riots and discontent so the hammer can be brought down.

darwin on January 13, 2011 at 10:21 AM

Its all about entitlement reform. While the President talks about reforming the tax code in a NON revenue neutral fashion (which is a terrible idea), I have yet to hear him even signal that he wants to reform our entitlement system in America. If we dont do it soon (and odds are, with this man at the helm, we WONT) the cutting of our bond rating will become more and more likely.

It’s just a matter of time as I see it.

Indy82 on January 13, 2011 at 10:21 AM

I wouldn’t say “mostly” through borrowing. The desktop where the spreadsheet is stored is down right now so I’m “roughing” these numbers, but the 2.7% of OASI benefits and the 25.8% of DI benefits paid by borrowing on the open market is not insignificant.

steveegg on January 13, 2011 at 10:21 AM

Ok gop, time to roll up your sleeves and get to cutting

cmsinaz on January 13, 2011 at 10:22 AM

Together we dive!

artist on January 13, 2011 at 10:22 AM

“Jobless claims up, possibly losing our bond rating, but da*n that pep rally was great.

We’re all unified to cheer for more Obama cowbell.”

Ya know… I thought I was the only one who was upset by the instant GLOW people had last night after the speech, as if every sin the President made had been washed away, and all was forgiven and forgotten by a mere SPEECH.

Apparently, I was not the only one. :)

Indy82 on January 13, 2011 at 10:24 AM

Point of order – that 2-percentage-point FICA/SECA tax holiday won’t affect Social Security because the monies that won’t be collected via the payroll tax will instead be taken from the general fund (i.e. borrowed) and put into the SocSecurity “Trust Funds” as though they were from the payroll tax.

The bad news – it will be more expensive to do it that way.

steveegg on January 13, 2011 at 10:25 AM

Everyone ought to read the text of remarks made yesterday by Dallas FED President Richard Fisher.

The Limits of Monetary Policy: ‘Monetary Policy Responsibility Cannot Substitute for Government Irresponsibility’

A few highlights from the speech:

But here is the essential fact I want to emphasize today: The Fed could not monetize the debt if the debt were not being created by Congress in the first place.

I don’t believe this has much to do with the Fed. None of my business contacts, large or small, publicly held or private, are complaining about the cost of borrowing, the lack of liquidity or the availability of capital. All express concern about taxes, regulatory burdens and the lack of understanding in Washington of what incentivizes private-sector job creation. All are stymied by a Congress and an executive branch that have appeared to them to be unaware of, if not outright opposed to, what fires the entrepreneurial spirit.

The leaders of our government cannot attempt to talk their way out of the problem like their predecessors did. They must fix the problem. Now. If they fail to do so, then the election, for all its hoopla, will prove to have been nothing more than a case of putting old, rancid wine in new bottles.

I ripped off the excerpts from Karl Denninger. You should go read Denninger’s comments here.

flyfisher on January 13, 2011 at 10:29 AM

Let it all come tumbling down. When the US Gov. collapses that will take out pretty much every country on the planet. When the dust settles we can start back with some semblance of a free society again. (Either that or we can all hide in caves until the radiation levels drop, one or the other)

BadMojo on January 13, 2011 at 10:30 AM

The good news: People standing in the government cheese handout line will now get a free t-shirt too.

Bishop on January 13, 2011 at 10:30 AM

The next step will be for the world to stop using dollars as its reserve currency and if that happens, just watch how worthless those dollars will become. There’s already a lot of noise from China and Russia to make that a reality with their calls for a world currency and moves away from dollar assets.

Not enough people in this country appreciate how serious this really is and there’s too many that actually want the whole thing to collapse.

RadClown on January 13, 2011 at 10:32 AM

Remember this quote over the next two years…

Gold is the money of kings, silver is the money of gentlemen, barter is the money of peasants, and debt is reserved for slaves…

PatriotRider on January 13, 2011 at 10:32 AM

*Cheers and clapping*

Mord on January 13, 2011 at 10:32 AM

The two things the Dem Congress needed desperately to work on – entitlement reform and job creation – were ignored for a stinking “health care reform” bill that is already wreaking havoc. BO will fight entitlement reform all the way, and he certainly can’t figure out how to do that ‘hard pivot’ on jobs.

The Republicans better get on it and fight. And they need to get the messaging right so that the public understands how dire the situation is.

Cody1991 on January 13, 2011 at 10:32 AM

Bishop……lol

cmsinaz on January 13, 2011 at 10:33 AM

TRUMP / RUBIO in 2012….the only way our government gets run in a financially prudent manner….

Seriously a second term of Barry Hussein? Mitt Romney?? sorry but PALIN??? Mitch Daniels???? Tim Pawlenty?????

NO CHANCE FOR CHANGE FROM THE LAST CHANGE

SDarchitect on January 13, 2011 at 10:35 AM

This mean that the politicians, who have guaranteed raises, that we’ve sent to Washington haven’t been watching out for us!? and even got us into this mess!?

Chessplayer on January 13, 2011 at 10:35 AM

The left dearly wants that to happen. Anything to spur riots and discontent so the hammer can be brought down.

darwin on January 13, 2011 at 10:21 AM

That’s the plan and that’s what will happen if we don’t kick the socialist crack. Too big to fail? Yeah, right.

cartooner on January 13, 2011 at 10:36 AM

Meanwhile, Congress is talking about gun control, congressional security and mental illness legislation.

Nero fiddled.

BierManVA on January 13, 2011 at 10:36 AM

The Tab Comes Due in 2011, Victor Davis Hanson.

gh on January 13, 2011 at 10:37 AM

Ya know… I thought I was the only one who was upset by the instant GLOW people had last night after the speech, as if every sin the President made had been washed away, and all was forgiven and forgotten by a mere SPEECH.

Apparently, I was not the only one. :)

Indy82 on January 13, 2011 at 10:24 AM

Funny you say that….my wife and I watched last night. About 15 minutes in we both turned to one another and said the exact same two words….”Paul Wellstone”

PatriotRider on January 13, 2011 at 10:37 AM

Nero fiddled.

BierManVA on January 13, 2011 at 10:36 AM

Yep, any stupid distraction to prevent them from tackling the real issues. Hey! How about a hearing on steroid use in pro baseball leagues? That was time well spent, wasn’t it.

Cody1991 on January 13, 2011 at 10:39 AM

This mean that the politicians, who have guaranteed raises, that we’ve sent to Washington haven’t been watching out for us!? and even got us into this mess!?

Chessplayer on January 13, 2011 at 10:35 AM

Shhhh, just relax and don’t worry about a thing…they have your best interest at heart. And pay no attention to that Chinese soldier forcing his way into your home…he’s just there to make sure you have everything you need.

BadMojo on January 13, 2011 at 10:39 AM

Mind you, these are the same bond-rating agencies that Congress has blamed for the financial collapse in 2008 for being too lenient with their credit ratings

alternative title: agencies that rated subprime junk as investment grade still taken seriously by some

sesquipedalian on January 13, 2011 at 10:40 AM

Oh, relax… When the government confiscates all private property, they’ll have plenty of collateral.

RBMN on January 13, 2011 at 10:42 AM

flyfisher on January 13, 2011 at 10:29 AM

Denninger was a good read. Thanks.

gh on January 13, 2011 at 10:42 AM

The system is beginning to self-correct, and all the obfuscation of the left with the Tucson shooting can’t change it. Time to pay the fiddler.

Meanwhile the GOP’s economic recovery plan consists of cutting the Caesar vinaigrette dressing from the lunch menu in the Congressional dining room.

Bishop on January 13, 2011 at 10:18 AM

Yep, that’s about the size of it.

KinleyArdal on January 13, 2011 at 10:42 AM

TRUMP / RUBIO in 2012….the only way our government gets run in a financially prudent manner….

SDarchitect on January 13, 2011 at 10:35 AM

Are you nuts?

cartooner on January 13, 2011 at 10:43 AM

After Obama’s pep rally, is the expression “cut spending” too harsh for our political discourse?

BuckeyeSam on January 13, 2011 at 10:44 AM

Note to Washington: If you thought the Tea Party looked like an angry mob, wait until you see what happens when Social Security checks start bouncing.

and Food Stamp payments stop…
and Welfare checks bounce…
and Medicaid stops…
and Medicare stops…
and Government pension payments stop…

getting the picture…

PatriotRider on January 13, 2011 at 10:45 AM

I thought “bird” was the word.

Beo on January 13, 2011 at 10:46 AM

Social Security has run cash deficits for most of 2010, meaning that the SSA has paid benefits mostly through borrowing.

And the idiots on the left will deny this, murmuring about ‘the Social Security Trust Funds’. They actually believe that there is a hoard of cash somewhere, paying their benefits.

GarandFan on January 13, 2011 at 10:51 AM

To paraphrase Joe Stalin – How many divisions do Moody’s and S&P have? In other words if push comes to shove, the shoved will be those guys. Do you think the ruling class would stand still for this? Don’t hold your breath for this one.

Viator on January 13, 2011 at 10:51 AM

Everyone ought to read the text of remarks made yesterday by Dallas FED President Richard Fisher.

flyfisher on January 13, 2011 at 10:29 AM

Pretty strong words. And Fisher’s a Democrat.

Ward Cleaver on January 13, 2011 at 10:55 AM

And the idiots on the left will deny this, murmuring about ‘the Social Security Trust Funds’. They actually believe that there is a hoard of cash somewhere, paying their benefits.

GarandFan on January 13, 2011 at 10:51 AM

Bust open the lockbox!

Ward Cleaver on January 13, 2011 at 10:56 AM

flyfisher on January 13, 2011 at 10:29 AM

Denninger was a good read. Thanks.

gh on January 13, 2011 at 10:42 AM

Agreed on Denninger.

Can you recall a Federal Reserve official talking that way? Compare his use of the phrases “current nightmare scenario” to anything we are hearing from the Obama stooges. Administration officials want us to believe we are in a recovery and that their policies saved the day. The truth is we are much worse off than we were two years ago. Much worse. Even within the GOP, few seem willing to admit reality. I laugh at the libs who believe they won something when Obamacare passed. Obamacare will never be fully implemented because we don’t have the money for it.

We face an existential fiscal crisis, yet the left keep us distracted with their trivial nonsense.

flyfisher on January 13, 2011 at 11:02 AM

No comment on the article. I do about the picture on the front page…
.
Does anyone else find it odd (funny?) that Communists are using the Parthenon as a backdrop to their protest? You know, THE symbol of democracy and freedom.

artlover on January 13, 2011 at 11:04 AM

Oh, relax… When the government confiscates all private property, they’ll have plenty of collateral.

RBMN on January 13, 2011 at 10:42 AM

The Soviets thought the same in 1917, only their total debt load wasn’t exactly 95% of their GDP at that point.

steveegg on January 13, 2011 at 11:06 AM

The Fed could not monetize the debt if the debt were not being created by Congress in the first place.

If they can’t print it, they can’t spend it.

Abolish the Fed!

Emperor Norton on January 13, 2011 at 11:07 AM

Paging Paul Ryan, Paging Paul Ryan…Budget cuts needed STAT

txmomof6 on January 13, 2011 at 11:08 AM

Everyone ought to read the text of remarks made yesterday by Dallas FED President Richard Fisher.

flyfisher on January 13, 2011 at 10:29 AM
Pretty strong words. And Fisher’s a Democrat.

Ward Cleaver on January 13, 2011 at 10:55 AM

Apparently he’s one of the few Dems knows how to use a calculator. It’s a shame he didn’t start using it before now. I can’t imagine what it’s like to go to bed at night with the knowledge that your bankrupt ideology has put a once mighty nation on the brink of economic ruination.

flyfisher on January 13, 2011 at 11:08 AM

Paging Paul Ryan, Paging Paul Ryan…Budget cuts needed STAT

txmomof6 on January 13, 2011 at 11:08 AM

Considering he’s going to need to find $1.4 trillion $1.5 trillion after the SocSecurity “Trust Funds” are made whole for the $0.113 trillion they won’t get thanks to the FICA/SECA tax holiday to cut between now and September 30, he’s going to need a bigger chainsaw.

steveegg on January 13, 2011 at 11:14 AM

Gold is the money of kings, silver is the money of gentlemen, barter is the money of peasants, and debt is reserved for slaves…

PatriotRider on January 13, 2011 at 10:32 AM

That right there bears repeating.

JohnGalt23 on January 13, 2011 at 11:14 AM

See Illinois. We don’t have to look overseas for fiscal failure on the dems part. Add CA and MI as well. We’ll fall like dominoes.

Kissmygrits on January 13, 2011 at 11:21 AM

At least as far as the SocSecurity “Trust Funds” are concerned, there won’t be any effect because the law provides for a transfer of funds from the general fund equal to the reduction in FICA/SECA tax

So now they are being honest, and admitting that FICA is nothing more than a tax under a different name, and not a social security or retirement program. That’s a start.

Vashta.Nerada on January 13, 2011 at 11:24 AM

Better -let’s look at the ridiculous growth in food stamps and institute tough reforms so the program can no longer be abused. Then let’s fix the federal employee problem, with cuts in headcount, and pensions, salaries, and other bennies.

It would be simply immoral to cut basic-survival level social security benefits for seniors while pouring down money on federal employees.

slickwillie2001 on January 13, 2011 at 11:27 AM

So now they are being honest, and admitting that FICA is nothing more than a tax under a different name, and not a social security or retirement program. That’s a start.

Vashta.Nerada on January 13, 2011 at 11:24 AM

It’s “not exactly” a start. Do see the update above.

steveegg on January 13, 2011 at 11:27 AM

Start by making everyone receiving a red cent from our largess prove they are a citizen.

If they aren’t cut them off.

BowHuntingTexas on January 13, 2011 at 11:55 AM

Great speech Mr. O. It must be really great to get back out on the old campaign trail, eh?

Now, bend over.

A Balrog of Morgoth on January 13, 2011 at 12:01 PM

Lots of money available in those private 401ks. Has to look mighty inviting about now. Confiscation in return for a promise to fund an annuity at retirment age? Sounds like a winner.

a capella on January 13, 2011 at 12:23 PM

A downward evaluation could send bond markets into a panic, and would at the least cost the US a fortune in debt service for any future borrowing:

Much if not most of that is just going to be “paid back” to the Federal Reserve (the agency that owns half our debt already).

If you think the 2008 financial crisis was bad, ask yourself this: Who is big enough to bail out the United States? Answer: Nobody.

The answer is that US will “bail out” the US. And we’ll do so with massive inflation. Whether that inflation is the “wheel barrels of cash for groceries” type or just the trashing our lifestyle for many years type depends on how soon we choose to balance out budget.

elfman on January 13, 2011 at 12:32 PM

Yeah this will be bad bcs my mother is in a nursing home with multiple sclerosis.
She cannot care for herself & has dementia.
The Good Samaritan Nursing Society is a wonderful organization & while I’m sure if her SS check bounced, they would not kick her out onto the street, how are organizations like that going to keep going on?

Badger40 on January 13, 2011 at 12:47 PM

Time to pay the fiddler.

Bishop on January 13, 2011 at 10:18 AM

It’s the whole damn orchestra that needs to be paid, including the accompanying chorus.

Amendment X on January 13, 2011 at 2:48 PM

can everyone spell VAT tax? start at 5%, get the kinks worked out then move up from there

r keller on January 13, 2011 at 2:54 PM

Crickets from the WH. Wasn’t that a fantabulous speech last night. Love my t shirt.

Kissmygrits on January 13, 2011 at 3:20 PM

can everyone spell VAT tax? start at 5%, get the kinks worked out then move up from there

r keller on January 13, 2011 at 2:54 PM

Oh HELL no, precisely because it will go up…and up…and up…and up….

steveegg on January 13, 2011 at 4:18 PM

can everyone spell VAT tax? start at 5%, get the kinks worked out then move up from there

r keller on January 13, 2011 at 2:54 PM

A VAt tax is the most dangerous kind of tax. You can’t have a tax revolt on a VAT.

elfman on January 13, 2011 at 4:34 PM

Moody’s Revenge?

Which is not to claim that they are wrong.

njcommuter on January 14, 2011 at 12:25 AM

My hard earned money was taken from me to give to good for nothing loafers, government bureaucrats, and stupid foreign aid. Before they cut ONLY Social Security we need to force these “beneficiaries” of largess funded by out SSA deductions to give it back.

If, however, EVERYBODY gets a cut-back, then cutting my Social Security check seems entirely appropriate.

{^_^}

herself on January 14, 2011 at 4:19 AM