Poll: 57% of Americans don’t buy media spin on Tucson massacre
posted at 9:30 am on January 11, 2011 by Ed Morrissey
CBS polled almost 700 adults in the wake of the mass murder in Tucson committed by Jared Lee Loughner to determine whether the media spin that the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the murders of six others was a political act had resonated with the public. Perhaps surprisingly, the spin machine seems to have failed. A majority of 57% say that politics had nothing to do with the shooting, and even a plurality of 49% of Democrats agree (via Dan Spencer):
Nearly six in 10 Americans say the country’s heated political rhetoric is not to blame for the Tucson shooting rampage that left six dead and critically wounded U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, according to a CBS News poll.
In the wake of the shooting, much focus has been put on the harsh tone of politics in Washington and around the country, particularly after a contentious midterm election. Rhetoric and imagery from both Republicans and Democrats have included gun-related metaphors, but the majority of the country isn’t connecting the shooting to politics.
It seems that the public has been able to separate the spin from the actual facts, which show that Loughner was a loon acting out of insanity and a personal grudge against Giffords, one completely of his own making. The publicity-hound sheriff who’s supposed to be leading the investigation may want to get around to, you know, looking at the evidence, as the feds apparently have done:
There’s mounting evidence that the attack on Rep. Gabrielle Giffords wasn’t a political act but a plan by a disturbed high school dropout who had few friends and no clear agenda. …
Instead, Loughner may have had some self-generated dislike of Giffords that stemmed from when he first spoke to her at an event in 2007.
Court filings indicate the FBI seized papers from his home Saturday that talked of planning an assassination of Giffords and also included a letter she sent him four years ago thanking him for attending the event.
One Loughner friend, Bryce Tierney, told Mother Jones magazine that Loughner had harbored a grudge against Giffords for more than a year, and that he considered her a “fake.”
Getting back to the poll, it seems as though the media spin of the first 48 hours failed to even convince the predisposed. Only 42% of Democrats in the survey believed that the shootings were a political act, and independents broke out at about the same ratio as the overall sample, 56/33. That is very good news for America, and bad news for those in the media and in Congress who hoped to leverage the shooting to pass gun-control and speech-control legislation and bully grassroots conservatives into silence.
Blowback
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CBS may have conducted this poll, but Sunday night one of their national radio news correspondents referred to–and I quote–the “by now infamous” crosshairs on the old Palin web page.
By now infamous!
This by now infamous media smear of Palin and the Tea Party. . .
Emperor Norton on January 11, 2011 at 11:02 AM
Yes. Imagine, at least 42% of Democrats (and 33% overall) are believing the madness of linking conservatives to this tragedy. These are numbers the left seeks to build on with the immediate and relentless use of tweets, facebook and blog postings…
Fallon on January 11, 2011 at 11:02 AM
The left needs to accept the fact that they are the source of 90% of the political hatred and violence in our country today. Until they accept that and work to change it, nothing will be different.
slickwillie2001 on January 11, 2011 at 11:03 AM
Exactly my thoughts. That is the scariest part. If it was a fringe 2-3% we could laugh it off. So 43% of the population buys into the BS. How that happens is beyond me.
antisocial on January 11, 2011 at 11:04 AM
the problem the left has is it thinka americans in general and conservatives specfically are stupid. therefore they plan their attacks and such with that in mind.
the Tea partiers are some of the smartest people in the country when it comes to politcas and the american people in general are some of the smartest in the world. You really have to be not paying attention or fed constant lies to believe what the dem party is pushing if you are not part of their elite.
unseen on January 11, 2011 at 11:05 AM
That’s right. The only people dumb enough to fall for it were…the GOP.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-11/republicans-to-temper-health-law-repeal-rhetoric-after-giffords-shooting.html
SirGawain on January 11, 2011 at 11:09 AM
700 people means nothing – show me a poll with more than 5000 voters and I will be impressed.
There is way too much rhetoric and you guys are as bad as The left – people need to stop – both sides need to concede and stop the trying to one up each other with polls, and proof and this one said that and blah, blah, blah.
Both sides need to submit.
It’s shameful. And I’m sure I have already proved my point with the comments that will follow.
You guys – like the otherside just cannot concede or submit in a tragedy.
AprilOrit on January 11, 2011 at 11:09 AM
People are not as stupid as the media thinks they are. Not always anyway.
Terrye on January 11, 2011 at 11:11 AM
Jared Loughner listed The Communist Manifesto as favorite reading, posted a video of the burning of an American flag on his internet site, concluded a rant about American currency by saying “I won’t trust in God,” and school acquaintances described him as upset with Bush and a left-wing pothead.
This guy is a lefty. And Americans know it, so of course Democrat and lefty type respondents are going to say politics had nothing to do with the attack.
If this guy was demonstrably on the right-wing, as Loughner is on the left, those same left-of-center respondents would be saying that politics was central to the attack.
InterestedObserver on January 11, 2011 at 11:12 AM
AprilOrit on January 11, 2011 at 11:09 AM
stuff it. You WILL NOT take my free speech rights away because of some nutcase’s actions.
unseen on January 11, 2011 at 11:14 AM
Both sides need to submit.
It’s shameful. And I’m sure I have already proved my point with the comments that will follow.
You guys – like the otherside just cannot concede or submit in a tragedy.
AprilOrit on January 11, 2011 at 11:09 AM
Submit to a POLITICAL G@NG-R@P!NG of Sarah Palin and the Tea Party? Wrong answer. You will not be allowed to utilize tragedy to criminalize my speech or my beliefs.
BradSchwartze on January 11, 2011 at 11:23 AM
Don’t expect the media to back off this narative. Just expect the media to relode and continue to target Palin for a political assasination.
lwssdd on January 11, 2011 at 11:26 AM
It’s probably the same 42% who think Obama is actually doing a good job.
Are you for real? What are we supposed to concede or submit to?
Beaglemom on January 11, 2011 at 11:28 AM
What would interest me is what percentage of college professors who believe that the political tone contributed to the murders in Arizona. I suspect that we would get proof that college professors are more likely than average citizens to join a witch hunt. From which, we could conclude that most college professors have less of value to say about politics than do average citizens.
thuja on January 11, 2011 at 11:31 AM
I think George Will has a saying from somewhere that goes like “The ones wanted to end the debate are the ones losing”. The goal here is not so much to smear Conservatives as end debate. We have already seen the switvhing from direct blame to the actual goal of let’s try and get the Right from calling Obama a Socialist because that is what is hurting us. It’s the Socialist label stupid in other words.
Conan on January 11, 2011 at 11:32 AM
The interesting thing is that 57% is the exact percentage of Americans that Gallup found have little or no trust in the media in its latest survey a few months back.
Not surprisingly, those who trusted the media the most were liberals and the poorly beducated.
bw222 on January 11, 2011 at 11:34 AM
RHETORIC RHETORIC RHETORIC RHETORIC RHETORIC
The word of the week is RHETORIC, often preceded by “violent,” “inflammatory,” or “heated.”
jjraines on January 11, 2011 at 11:34 AM
OMG, the world’s dumbest troll is back.
bw222 on January 11, 2011 at 11:36 AM
Pound sand.
Inanemergencydial on January 11, 2011 at 11:48 AM
Baloney. Provide an example of us being “as bad as the Left.” It’s the leftists (and schizophrenics with randomly jumbled philosophies, like this Loughner creep) who commit almost all of the political violence.
And no, I’m not inclined to just back off now that the blood libel is out there — apparently people who are smart enough to know better now think that there is something to the idea that surveyor symbols on a campaign website is all that’s needed to accuse Sarah Palin (and Tea Partiers in general) of influencing some random schizophrenic to go on a shooting spree and kill six people, including a federal judge. It’s on, especially when we know full well that the Left commits far, FAR more violence against their opponents than the Right ever does (as Michelle Malkin was kind enough to remind us of yesterday).
Aitch748 on January 11, 2011 at 11:56 AM
What? These numbers are an absolute win for the lying press!
Imagine the MSM trying to blame the lunar eclipse on “heated rhetoric of the Tea Party” and 20% of Americans believed it. Would that be “good news”?
They are probably doing a jig at MSNBC, etc. With absolutely ZERO evidence, they have managed to get 43% of Americans to link this horror to “heated rhetoric.” That just sets up the frame for every act of violence in America over the next two years.
It’s a cumulative effect. They start at zero and take an event WITH NO CONNECTION to the Tea Party and they’re already at 43%? Party time at the MSM.
mankai on January 11, 2011 at 12:03 PM
I think his 9/11 troofer, pro-abortion, communist manifesto politics probably had something to do with it.
ReformedAndDangerous on January 11, 2011 at 12:09 PM
Their little poll just lets them know that the media isn’t getting the job done…so now they must find a different way to get the liberal message of hate & blame out. I really hope it isn’t through any speeches that Barack Obama makes. The victims, and America, deserve so much better.
redwhiteblue on January 11, 2011 at 12:14 PM
43% of Americans believe an absolute lie created by the press for which there is absolutely no evidence… and for which there is actally evidence to the contrary.
Awesome.
/
mankai on January 11, 2011 at 12:17 PM
Of the 43%, some are true believers; I estimate 20%. There are that many voters that are just that stupid and brainwashed.
The remainder know the truth and are just playing good democratics and toeing the line. I would count most of the liberal media in that remainder.
slickwillie2001 on January 11, 2011 at 12:19 PM
Those humming Nobody’s Fault But Mine are louder than those humming Sign, Sign, Everywhere a Sign .
rukiddingme on January 11, 2011 at 12:20 PM
Just curious, did Palin put the ‘crosshairs’ on anyone else during campaign season, and if she did, apparently the go code was missed by the other agents
TheVer on January 11, 2011 at 12:22 PM
Show me proof that political rhetoric caused this tragedy.
canditaylor68 on January 11, 2011 at 12:22 PM
Just fyi, the poll question was “Did harsh political tone have anything to do with the shooting?” The only responses allowed were yes or no; no ‘don’t have enough information’ or ‘don’t know’ responses were provided as a choice.
LASue on January 11, 2011 at 12:26 PM
“Nearly six in 10 Americans say the country’s heated political rhetoric is not to blame for the Tucson shooting rampage … “
Loughner was a registered Independent who didn’t even bother to vote in the 2010 election.
Blame it on the “No Labels” group!
/s
RedPepper on January 11, 2011 at 12:27 PM
Unfortunately the “people” are pretty stupid. I see the stupidity every day. Enough of them are around to have elected the zero.
Dasher on January 11, 2011 at 12:34 PM
Good point. I blame Bloomberg and his heated rhetoric against choosing a political party… which Giffords did!
mankai on January 11, 2011 at 12:34 PM
Apparently some on the Left want much, much more than that.
H/T: AoS
CPT. Charles on January 11, 2011 at 12:35 PM
The other 43% is why this country is f***** beyond repair.
WisCon on January 11, 2011 at 12:36 PM
Thanks bw222 for your comment about April! I was having a hard time deciphering this. April sound like she is beaming in from planet Islam with her overuse of “submit”. It’s good to know it’s just stupidity.
thuja on January 11, 2011 at 12:37 PM
Submit and concede to the benefit of your country and fellow countrymen/Americans and stop your caustic meat hacking BS.
AprilOrit on January 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM
Yes, the Republicans are folding like a cheap suit. We’re going to tone down our rhetoric on the health care bill and use a more bipartisan tone. And on yeah, Peter King, who always seemed like a true conservative, is writing a new firearms bill. They are the spineless POS’s we always thought they were. We are doomed with these weasels in charge. No amount of wishing is going to change it.
silvernana on January 11, 2011 at 12:50 PM
Submit what? Submit it to who?
How do you “already prove” something with comments that “are to follow”? Are you Dr. Who?
How do you concede or submit in a tragedy? What does that even mean?
Monkeytoe on January 11, 2011 at 12:52 PM
Yeah but 42% of Dems also think Bush = Hitler. They’ll believe anything.
angryed on January 11, 2011 at 12:54 PM
Holy shit what is up with this new batch of trolls lately? Crr6 is on vacation I assume, looks like the Soros bench is pretty weak when the A-team is away.
angryed on January 11, 2011 at 12:55 PM
They dont buy it, they know its not true. But why should democrats let a kid die for nothing.
Greed on January 11, 2011 at 12:56 PM
Concede what for the “benefit of” the country?
Submit what for the “benefit of” the country?
What is “caustic meat hacking”? Stating that it is shameful to blame these murders on opposition to liberal policies?
Monkeytoe on January 11, 2011 at 12:59 PM
Submit what? Submit it to who?
I remember how you all acted during the General – attacking john Mccain and your crap about RINO hunting, you guys never stop.
AprilOrit on January 11, 2011 at 1:02 PM
Actually only a 1000 are needed to approach certainty within 5% in any poll (Dillman 2008). 700 puts it within 6%, with a marginal utility that peaks at 1000. The question was basic, so there’s limited social desirability bias…. all in all, significant results.
itsspideyman on January 11, 2011 at 1:10 PM
I am appalled that anyone buys into this crap!
What is wrong with people? Is logic completely gone from the world?
Besides most of the “rhetoric” lately has been about cutting spending and not raising the debt ceiling.
It has been three months since there was any discussion of beating Democrats.
So loosely translated to liberal-speak… “Cut-spending” means: “Kill Congresswoman Giffords”.
There is so little logic in the left’s way of thinking.
petunia on January 11, 2011 at 1:11 PM
heavily contested primaries = Right Wing & Left Wing nutjobs speeing their vitriol full steam ahead.
Roger Ailes: That’s what should happen. You know, they’re using this thing…apparently there was a map from one of Palin’s things that had her (Congresswoman Giffords) targeted district. So, we looked at the internet and the first thing we found in 2007, the Democrat Party had a targeted map with targets on it for the Palin district. These maps have been used for for years that I know of. I have two pictures of myself with a bull’s-eye on my head. This is just bullshit. This goes on… both sides are wrong, but they both do it.
http://globalgrind.com/channel/news/content/1900155/roger-ailes-amp-russell-simmons-both-sides-are-wron/
AprilOrit on January 11, 2011 at 1:16 PM
1) you did not answer the questions.
2) So? So what if we called McCain a RINO? What does that have to do with anything? Or are you stupid enough to believe that political discourse is to blame for murder? Should we outlaw free speech and just “submit” to our betters in government and never say another thing opposing anything the gov’t does or tries to do? Is that your answer?
Monkeytoe on January 11, 2011 at 1:16 PM
Roger Ailes: I told all of our guys, shut up, tone it down, make your argument intellectually. You don’t have to do it with bombast. I hope the other side does that.
AprilOrit on January 11, 2011 at 1:18 PM
If the Democrats refuse to work with Republicans to slash the budget, deciding instead to allow the government to shut down, I think the numbers will be very similar to this—and that’s why the Left is so desperate. That is the reason, (November), that they milked this tragedy for everything they could squeeze from it.
And it’s a long term trend caused by the Internet and FNC. Now that people have informed themselves enough to decide they aren’t going to change their minds in 5 or 10 years. Fiscal responsibility is the new norm, that spells the end of the far left nanny stater and they know it.
FloatingRock on January 11, 2011 at 1:18 PM
In all seriousness, you are the stupidest person I’ve encountered on this site, and that is really saying something.
if you think free speech is so bad, why are you engaging in it? What you are saying is really riling me up. I am getting very angry adn excited about what you are saying. If I hurt someone – YOU ARE TO BLAME. Your utter nonsensical bullshit is causnig me to lose my mind. You are obviously evil and are causing evil by speaking. So you should shut the hell up.
Monkeytoe on January 11, 2011 at 1:19 PM
You know, “Hot Air” is an incendiary name for a political website. It’s making me think crazy thoughts. Can’t you tone it down a bit; you know, come up with an emotion-neutral name in light of this tragedy?
CliffHanger on January 11, 2011 at 1:20 PM
I am so angry right now because of the things AprilOrit has written, I don’t know what to do with myself. I feel like I am losing control based on her statements.
Monkeytoe on January 11, 2011 at 1:20 PM
Don’t blame me because you are too stubborn to tone it down.
There is free speech and there is the same hateful vitriol used to smear and destroy your opponents.
it has to stop and obviously Roger Ailes feels the same way.
AprilOrit on January 11, 2011 at 1:23 PM
Left-speak for “let us have our way or we’ll continue our tantrum and hold our breath…then you’ll be sorry”
BobMbx on January 11, 2011 at 1:24 PM
The Democrats failed in their attempt to blood libel the tea party, just like they’ll lose a government shutdown, just like they’ll fail to save their job-killing healthcare bill, just like they’ll fail to shoot down missile defense, just like they’ll fail to raise taxes, just like they’ll fail to stop us from reducing and reforming taxes, just like they’ll fail to save their corrupt tax system, just like they’ll fail to save earmarks, and so on.
FloatingRock on January 11, 2011 at 1:26 PM
This is a perfect example of leftist free speech theory.
“Shut up and listen to me”
BobMbx on January 11, 2011 at 1:26 PM
Yeah – Roger and me – Lefties all the way…
This is what I mean….
AprilOrit on January 11, 2011 at 1:26 PM
I hope this helps you -if you don’t play with excrement then you won’t smell like excrement. Just leave ao alone and have a blessed day.
redwhiteblue on January 11, 2011 at 1:27 PM
FAIL!
jnelchef on January 11, 2011 at 1:31 PM
What, specifically, has to stop, and why?
FloatingRock on January 11, 2011 at 1:32 PM
More of the same insulting crap by someone who dares to us the colors of our flag as their sign-in.
You’re no patriot my friend, you are another childish idealogue playing politics as a nasty game….
AprilOrit on January 11, 2011 at 1:32 PM
Give me a list of names who use hateful vitriol so I know who’s ass to kick.
BobMbx on January 11, 2011 at 1:34 PM
You are advocating censorship. Why?
I imagine you were probably upset that they read the Constitution the other day. Why?
FloatingRock on January 11, 2011 at 1:35 PM
Hey, what’s the word from Oppressive-Left – are they going to continue to push for the destruction of free-speech or are they going to retreat to their old standby of disarming the law-abiding?
Chip on January 11, 2011 at 1:35 PM
You’re a political vulture feeding on the flesh of the victims.
FloatingRock on January 11, 2011 at 1:36 PM
For them, its like reading the rules of Monopoly. They can’t win if everyone knows the rules.
BobMbx on January 11, 2011 at 1:36 PM
The nasty blamegame and dirty politicking between the far left and the far Right who have both usurped our political process.
Moderate and Independents are sick to death of it, it’s a proven fact they are leaving both parties in droves.
This tragedy happened and people are still trying to blame the other side. And then – they feel this need to run and make sure they do their polls to prove they are right, it’s really disgusting.
This poll proves nothing because tomorrow there will be another one to cancel this one out…and Thursday another one and so on…
AprilOrit on January 11, 2011 at 1:37 PM
Del Dolemonte on January 11, 2011 at 1:37 PM
Ol’ Get was much more fun.
BobMbx on January 11, 2011 at 1:38 PM
Yeah, right….I’m the one who has been called names….I supported John McCain in the general and you would not believe the way that man was attacked here.
AprilOrit on January 11, 2011 at 1:39 PM
Wow, this dame is shoveling with two hands.
Del Dolemonte on January 11, 2011 at 1:40 PM
I am trying to hold on to the one I have – there will be nothing left after you moonbats & wingnuts stop screwing up my country….
AprilOrit on January 11, 2011 at 1:40 PM
Yeah, right….I’m the one who has been called names….I supported John McCain in the general and you would not believe the way that man was attacked here.
AprilOrit on January 11, 2011 at 1:39 PM
You were responded to because you attacked first. Do you want some cheese with that?
kingsjester on January 11, 2011 at 1:41 PM
I supported B. Hussein Obama, Im a lifelong democrat, my family all votes democrat, and I cannot believe you, an admitted wingnut, is playing this tragedy for political points.
Inanemergencydial on January 11, 2011 at 1:41 PM
Who is blaming the left for the 6 murders?
Olbermann? Shultz? Maddow? Chrissy? O’Reilly? Hannity (who is still under threat of being “torn up”)?
So far, the only “side” being blamed is the Tea Party, and Sarah Palin personally.
BobMbx on January 11, 2011 at 1:41 PM
What is claimed to be an Ailes quote (I told all of our guys, shut up, tone it down, make your argument intellectually. You don’t have to do it with bombast. I hope the other side does that.) -comes from a questionable source, the writer does not put his name on the article, and is quoting yet another unreliable source. We should not accept it until we hear the story from the people in Fox News that supposedly received this direction.
slickwillie2001 on January 11, 2011 at 1:42 PM
Why do you people feed the trolls? They will never go away unless you stop it.
angryed on January 11, 2011 at 1:44 PM
There’s a video of him with Russell Simmons – it’s been all over the airwaves.
AprilOrit on January 11, 2011 at 1:45 PM
Wow, citing a hip-hop website is almost as funny as your trying to use the evil President of Faux News to prove your point.
Brilliant Satire!
Del Dolemonte on January 11, 2011 at 1:45 PM
Does this mean you are going to turn off CNN and MSNBC and watch Fox News exclusively? Good for you.
Del Dolemonte on January 11, 2011 at 1:47 PM
I always say, He/she who puts head in sand, better have plenty of lube.
And why the hell do “we” care what “Roger Ailes” says???
*Snort!
lovingmyUSA on January 11, 2011 at 1:47 PM
Wow! How do you know That!
I had heard that Leftist-Oppressives had hidden talents but I hadn’t heard of fortune telling.
Quick, what are the winning numbers for the Wisconsin lottery!
Chip on January 11, 2011 at 1:48 PM
I guess vitriol is o.k. when she is doing it.
I wonder who she submits to? Or what she concedes?
I’m all about submitting. I just wish I knew what I was supposed to submit and who I was supposed to submit it to. Or conceding. If I knew what I was supposed to concede and who I was supposed to concede it to, I would be ahead of the game.
I also love how she pretends that she hates both the left and the right. Why do these trolls continue to use this type of tactic? Do they really think they are fooling people? If so, they are even dumber than their writing skills demonstrate.
Monkeytoe on January 11, 2011 at 1:51 PM
And when one goes to the home page of your “source”, guess what? There, about halfway down is an article claiming Jared was a Tea Bagger.
http://newsone.com/newsone-original/casey-gane-mccalla/arizona-shooter-jared-loughner-has-all-the-ingredients-of-a-tea-party-member/
Even funnier is Global Grind’s “Mission Statement”:
F-
Del Dolemonte on January 11, 2011 at 1:55 PM
The headline is misleading. As Spencer’s article makeS clear 33% believe something for which there is not a shred of evidence. The headline should read:
Basilsbest on January 11, 2011 at 1:56 PM
Poor April is just “concerned” about all this nasty name-calling. She really just wants us all to getalong…we really should thank her for her “concern”…
http://www.glamourhits.com/apps/blog/show/5413982-the-18-types-of-internet-trolls
lovingmyUSA on January 11, 2011 at 1:57 PM
Cite back to it with links.
Pretty much everyone on this site supported McCain in the general election – so your claims are a little odd. Many did not support McCain in the primary, but that is the way primaries work.
I doubt anyone here believes that you supported or voted for McCain in the general election. Your comments read like a parody of a leftist troll at best.
Again I ask – why do these trolls continue to use this tired, obvious tactic of pretending to be “on our side” but just “concerned” about things? Do they really believe we are going to wake up one day and say “you know, everything I ever believed is wrong b/c aprilonit is one of us and pointed out that we are actually wrong about everything. I think I’ll vote for the most communist candidate possible from now on!”
Monkeytoe on January 11, 2011 at 2:01 PM
Ailes is a conservative who works for a mainly left organization
You, you’re a dunce from NYC.
darwin-t on January 11, 2011 at 2:05 PM
You’re damned right.
Don’t you forget it.
portlandon on January 11, 2011 at 2:05 PM
We know, that’s why the tea party had a historic victory in November.
FloatingRock on January 11, 2011 at 2:07 PM
I think that most of the trolls here have been on left wing blogs the past few days trying to exploit this tragedy, and now that polls show they’ve failed and have egg on their face, they’re going to all come here trying to stir up trouble so they can pretend we’re just as bad as they are.
But we’re not the evil blood-suckers that they’ve falsely portrayed, obviously, so will fail in this effort too.
FloatingRock on January 11, 2011 at 2:16 PM
Its the liberal mantra that all.. ALL knuckledragging Conservatives (AKA real Republicans) worship at the FOX NEWS channel and that’s where we get our daily programming download untill Rush Limbaugh comes on for the midday update. We’re not real thinkers according to them, so they toss out what THEY think is an icon to us to try the “Hey look, a shiney thing” distraction.
Its lame. Its toothless. Its the left these days.
44Magnum on January 11, 2011 at 2:28 PM
“Mr. Freud? Mr. Freud? You have a call on the oops-I-told-them-what-liberals-really-want line.”
Submission is not happening, hon. You’re going to have to go to Plan B.
Rational Thought on January 11, 2011 at 2:30 PM
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