Glenn Beck: Raising the debt ceiling is the beginning of the end for Republicans

posted at 9:48 pm on January 4, 2011 by Allahpundit

A surreal clip, not because they don’t understand the consequences of failing to raise the ceiling but because they do — and Napolitano, at least, seems prepared to accept them. From the myopic standpoint of what’s more likely to bring about the end of the GOP, I’m guessing that an economic collapse triggered by a Republican-driven federal default is slightly more likely to cause trouble for conservatives than voting to raise the ceiling in return for, say, a balanced-budget amendment or other heavy debt-reducing concessions. But beyond that, and I ask this in all sincerity, how exactly is it “fiscally conservative” to willingly default on your obligations? The ceiling is just a ceiling. A Congress committed to solvency could raise the limit now to preserve the stability of global markets and then get cracking on real budget cuts — and entitlement reform — to start moving us away from that ceiling, never to return. This idea of letting the government default because it’s the only way to make Americans get serious about the debt reminds me of some liberals shrugging off spiraling gas prices a few years ago on grounds that they would finally make Americans get serious about alternative energy. In both cases, because the final “crisis” is supposedly inevitable, the point is to bring it about ASAP and make people suffer until they’re willing to agree to dramatic change. Ironically, it reminds of the Cloward-Piven strategy: If you want meaningful reform to an unjust system, the best thing to do is overwhelm it until it crashes and then rebuild it in the ashes more to your liking. Beck’s not quite willing to go that far here, but Napolitano? You tell me.

As companion viewing to this, head over here and watch Jim DeMint encourage freshman Republicans not to vote for raising the debt ceiling because “it’s not a problem they created.” Where does that principle begin and end? A lot of Democrats elected to Congress in 2006 and 2008 didn’t vote for war in Iraq either, but the party continued to fund the mission anyway because a gradual drawdown was more responsible than simply pulling the plug. Why does that logic not apply in this case? Click the image to watch.


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This is too easy. Cut everything initially. Everything.

Then start making decisions about what government activities should receive continued funding and which ones should be reduced or terminated. That’s what we used to call “governing.”

As for the Senate and Obama, my advice to the House is to ignore them. If they want to continue the current profligacy, fine. Make them own it.

Bugler on January 5, 2011 at 12:21 AM

We are talking about the “here and now”, no?

OK, I’d like to screw Scarlett Johansson next time she magically appears in my hammock next time I go hiking.

toliver on January 5, 2011 at 12:28 AM

OK, I’d like to screw Scarlett Johansson next time she magically appears in my hammock next time I go hiking.

toliver on January 5, 2011 at 12:28 AM

That’s happened to you too? Man I thought I was the only one. She gets around.

Daemonocracy on January 5, 2011 at 12:30 AM

truth is, the House is not going to get much past the Senate or Obama at all, but they can still put forth our agenda and force legislators to take sides so voters can see where the battle lines have been drawn.

10% across the board cutting, including the DoD, is a start.

Daemonocracy on January 5, 2011 at 12:24 AM

I dig it, but let’s not get our hopes in an unrealistic place during the short term.

toliver on January 5, 2011 at 12:32 AM

I dig it, but let’s not get our hopes in an unrealistic place during the short term.

toliver on January 5, 2011 at 12:32 AM

with the current GOP leadership combined with the current administration, my hopes are not very high. Especially after that disastrous “lame duck” session.

This is a time to provide a clear contrast between one side and the other, so while certain reforms will not get passed, a vote needs to be forced and highly charged debates need to be heard. 2012 will be a time for choosing and the people need to see that there are two clear directions they can go in.

Daemonocracy on January 5, 2011 at 12:35 AM

The end of the GOP? They haven’t even gotten started yet! God, I am getting so tired of Armageddon Beck. Everyone is wrong and only Beck has all the answers. Just buy his latest book for proof.

This ADD-addled carnival barker is destroying himself and is too arrogant and self-aggrandized to see it. The only time Beck is worth listening to these days is when Stu and Pat are running the show in his absence. Beck is taking himself way too seriously these days. Lighten up Beck. I listen to you and want to slit my wrists.

David2.0 on January 5, 2011 at 12:36 AM

You’ll have to make fast big cuts in the Federal Budget then. Where?

I have not seen a realistic answer to this paramount question yet.

toliver on January 4, 2011 at 11:45 PM

You probably won’t either. Other than symbolic cuts, like hiring and salary freezes, the flirtation with tax increases, and obscure state funding for projects. Like our light-rail system that will cost billions in federal funding, a train to no where. Which I hope goes down in flames.

After listening to many of the newbies, the Tea Party elected, I’ve set Great Expectations for 2011. We will see if temptation abandons principals.

Raise the debt ceiling, but put heavy handed austerity restrictions as the conditions.

Kini on January 5, 2011 at 12:36 AM

Need the full monty.

Gut agencies. Remove programs entirely, cut SS, Medicare, Medicaid—hell kill medicaid, leave it to the states. Remove the medicaid portion of the FICA tax.

Remove DOE, cut fed payrates 30%, including congresscritters. Hell, there is so much you can gut, remove, subsidies to kill, govt employee leaches to fire, it boggles the mind why everyone things it would be hard to find lots of cuts.

That scary debt ceiling won’;t matter squat when we can’t make our interest payments in 10 years and we have even less tax revenues coming in.

clowns

PS: you GBDS people crack me up.

exsanguine on January 5, 2011 at 12:41 AM

Seems like the thinking of Rahm Emmanuel has seeped into the thoughts of even conservatives. How many don’t-waste-a-crisis times have we had in the past 2 years alone? Banks too big to fail, auto industry too big to fail, stimulus or unemployment would go above 8% – EIGHT PERCENT!!!, need to compromise on tax cuts by extending unemployment or government will shut down!! print $600 billion or else! – now the debt ceiling HAS to be raised or THE WORLD WILL END. And we CAN’T cut the budget by $100 billion because we only have 7 months and it CAN’T BE DONE!

Anyone seeing a pattern? “We really don’t want to spend this money but we HAVE to because otherwise PUPPIES WILL DIE!!! Just this ONE thing THEN we will fix everything.” Over and over and over again.

So I ask what will be the next emergency to make it ‘just this ONE more time’? There will be one…and another, and another…and another. Go ahead and just argue the pros and cons of this one issue, but unless you look at it in the big picture your point is useless.

Sh!t like this makes me all the more sure that we don’t just need a conservative in the White House in 2012, we need a conservative with balls and a record to prove it – so yet again – Palin 2012

miConsevative on January 5, 2011 at 12:47 AM

First steps.

Align state employee wages with the wages of their private sector counterparts. Get rid of the EPA, the Department of Energy, Department of Agriculture, Department of Commerce. Raise the age of retirement for receiving taxpayer funded social security to the average life expectancy of U.S. citizens. Cut the unemployment benefit in half. Get rid of the Department of Education and allow parents to choose which school is to receive funding for educating their children. To raise some money, sell off NASA, and divest the government of all the vast tracts of land it has taken upon itself to own and parcel it all off to the highest bidders.

Oh, you’re very welcome.

FierceGuppy on January 5, 2011 at 12:48 AM

PUPPIES WILL DIE!!!

miConsevative on January 5, 2011 at 12:47 AM

That’s a good point. We were never given the chance to review the crisis. We were told, we don’t have time, it has to be done now, OR ELSE!!!

However, economic collapse doesn’t just happen like a lit firecracker fuse. There’s always time to evaluate and to act accordingly.

Any investor will tell you that emotion drives the market. But the wise investor will ride out the economic storms, evaluate, and then rebalanced the portfolio as necessary. That takes time and the argument of doing it NOW because it’s too big to fail, is just a smoke screen to hide a larger issue. We never got to review that issue.

Kini on January 5, 2011 at 1:08 AM

Palin 2012

miConsevative on January 5, 2011 at 12:47 AM

At least we know she can balance a checkbook.

Kini on January 5, 2011 at 1:10 AM

Palin 2012

miConsevative on January 5, 2011 at 12:47 AM

At least we know she can balance a checkbook.

Kini on January 5, 2011 at 1:10 AM

And field dress a caribou – and in 2012 I will only vote for someone who can do both (figuratively, of course). We aren’t lacking in those who CAN balance a checkbook, we are lacking those with the cajones to do it.

miConsevative on January 5, 2011 at 1:17 AM

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding on this issue floating around.

Declining to raise the debt ceiling is absolutely not the same thing as defaulting on the national debt. It can be, but it doesn’t need to be.

If we decide not to raise the debt ceiling, all that means for certain is that the Congress has declined to allow the Treasury to borrow addition money by selling bonds or accepting other forms of loans. That means the the Federal government may operate only off of revenues, approximately $200 billion month – not chump change. Now, the Feds are currently spending near $400 billion dollars a month, borrowing nearly 1 out of every 2 of them – if they can’t borrow, the Treasury will have to stop disbursing around 42% of what we have budgeted. If it chooses to stop disbursing money to pay interest on the national debt, that would be a national default. But it could easily continue to pay that interest and halt 42% of spending elsewhere.

Remember, cutting 42% of Federal spending would take us back to early 2000s spending levels, in Bush’s first term. Is that so extreme? I don’t think so.

Inkblots on January 5, 2011 at 1:23 AM

Allah, did you listen to the clip?

Beck said if they do not raise the debt ceiling it will be like The Smoot/Hawley legislation that caused the trade problems in the depression. It will be a far worse disaster than anything we have experienced and Beck doesn’t know what he would do if he had to vote.

And then he said if the Republicans do take Obama’s payoffs and raise it with no consessions…(such as the ones you suggest) it will be the end of the Republicans.

Sometimes it seems to me like people expect a certain position from Beck and they hear what they want to hear, not really what he said.

Maybe I do it too, I don’t know.

But I did not hear him say that we should not raise the ceiling. He said he didn’t know what was the best thing to do.

And I got the exact opposite impression, I came away thinking that if Beck was forced to make the call he would raise it, but knowing full well what the political cost will be from people who agree with the Judge.

petunia on January 5, 2011 at 1:25 AM

Comparing the Federal debt to “a friend of yours” is not valid, unless not paying debts would be beneficial to your friend.

Raise the debt ceiling for the last time. Make reasonable cuts over time. Encourage strong economic growth.

Has anyone checked out the Federal Spending pie chart yet?

toliver on January 4, 2011 at 11:18 PM

Yes, he is a “friend of mine”. What you want a name and address? Actually he’s one of many people I know who live way beyond their means.

That aside, it’s the same attitude as yours. Can’t cut SS. Can’t cut Medicare. Can’t cut this, can’t cut that. Must keep on borrowing. It’s like calling up Visa and asking for an extra $2K credit limit because you just gotta have that brand new TV and if you don’t buy it, well, let’s not even think of the horrendous consequences.

angryed on January 5, 2011 at 1:26 AM

Maybe I do it too, I don’t know.

petunia on January 5, 2011 at 1:25 AM

That’s what I like about Beck, he makes you do your own thinking.

Kini on January 5, 2011 at 1:32 AM

At least we know she can balance a checkbook.

Kini on January 5, 2011 at 1:10 AM

Alaska’s budget was far far different from the national budget.

Alaska has oil. They give back money to citizens. That gives Palin no experience at all in making the kind of decisions that are coming.

I’m not hating on Palin. I just think her experience is not relevant to the current problems.

Now, Christie, has got the experience… however, his decisions haven’t aged enough to know the real outcome of his cuts yet.

We are truly on uncharted ground here. Even Reagan only sliced the government a little bit. He stopped the growth, but this time that isn’t going to be enough.

Now we have to roll it back. People are addicted to big government and we have to take away the drug. This is hard hard work.

petunia on January 5, 2011 at 1:33 AM

Declining to raise the debt ceiling is absolutely not the same thing as defaulting on the national debt. It can be, but it doesn’t need to be.

Inkblots on January 5, 2011 at 1:23 AM

True, but we are dealing with spendaholics.
Raise their spending limit, and they will spend.

Kini on January 5, 2011 at 1:36 AM

For those of you asking what oh what could we possibly cut…

Here are some numbers (in $M) that I think could be cut by 100%. This is one line item in the budget, all pork for farmers AKA Department of Agriculture

Commodities and International $4253
Rural Development $2983
Conservation $1009
Food and Nutrition Service $7,880
Marketing and Regulatory Programs $2095

Almost $20B spent on nothing.

And this is 1 line item out of thousands.

angryed on January 5, 2011 at 1:40 AM

I’m not hating on Palin. I just think her experience is not relevant to the current problems.

petunia on January 5, 2011 at 1:33 AM

They actually are. Alaska has oil, and Kansas has corn. Energy and food. Mutually Exclusive. Whereas programs like ethanol should be eliminated. Other similar programs should be eliminated and left to private industry to develop and exploit without hindrance (regulation) by the government. This is how the private sector grows.

Ford wasn’t subsidized by the government to build the Model T, or retool the assembly line, that was pure innovation and capitalism.

Gov. Palin is relevant. Read her articles and her books. She talks about these issues in easy, simple terms.

Kini on January 5, 2011 at 1:44 AM

And this is 1 line item out of thousands.

angryed on January 5, 2011 at 1:40 AM

It’s like looking at your credit card statement and seeing the largest expenditure is on booze

Kini on January 5, 2011 at 1:53 AM

Everyone who is suggesting gut this, gut that, etc, etc.

There is one problem. We ONLY CONTROL THE HOUSE.

PERIOD.

Can we (the new Republican majority) attempt to Defund anything we don’t like…..sure.

But as far as removing the EPA, DoE, DoEd, DoA, etc WE CANNOT DO THAT YET.

We can’t open the waters and the lands for drilling and mineral exploitation for the SAME reason.

We need to hang on for the next 2 years, cut as much as we can, and in 2012 run someone who can and will BEAT President Obama and then actually start to RESTORE sanity in our finances, overseas commitments, and land/mineral usages. Good examples of what can and should be done can be found in Beck’s book Broke which contains 30 PAGES worth of nothing but annotations and footnotes for the contents of the book.

Here are a few:

Index ALL federal pay for Representatives and Senators to the level of a military recruit out of basic training at rank of E-2/E-3.

The payscale for G (Government Civil Servants) ratings should be THE SAME as E (Enlisted Military Personnel) ratings.

Housing for Representatives and Senators can be in one of two places: back in their districts (WHERE THEY BELONG) as Congress should spend FAR LESS TIME IN SESSION (thereby saving us money) or in a central Barracks Facility near the Capital building similar to what our men and women enjoy on a military installation. Come to think of it they could stick extra barracks on Andrews Air Force Base and just drive to and from the Capital Building there.

Benefits for all current Federal employees should be eliminated or at the very least switched to DEFINED CONTRIBUTION and NOT DEFINED BENEFIT starting in the soonest fiscal year that it can be passed.

Foreign Aid-eliminate it. Every last cent. Be it financial or military. Too bad, so sad-WE’RE BROKE

Defund and eliminate (by Executive Order (EO) to get around a recalcitrant Congress if necessary) the following:

Department of Education
Dept of Energy
Dept of Agriculture
EPA
OSHA
Dept of HUD
Dept of HHS
Dept of Labor
NHTSA
NTSB
BATFE-Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives

Open as much land mass currently owned by the Federal Government as possible to mineral and oil exploration and/or commercial development. Sell it off to the highest bidder.

SEAL THE NORTHERN AND SOUTHERN BORDERS. Amend the Posse Comitatus Act
to allow for FULLY ARMED military support on both borders to include ARMOR and MECHANIZE UNITS as well as very simple shoot on sight orders as well as powers to detain foreign border crossers should they choose to surrender.

All employers should be REQUIRED to utilize the E-Verify system and submit a certification of such when they file taxes each year to the IRS. Any who fail to do so (or otherwise employ illegal aliens) shall be fined no less than 5% of the highest paid member of the company’s salary for the preceding year per illegal alien. This shall be used for debt repayment.

Adopt Paul Ryan’s Roadmap to force austerity measures and reform entitlement programs.

Unless we are actively engaged in combat or need bases to support current/ongoing combat actions, close as many overseas military facilities as possible. Bring those men and women home. If the host nations are truly our allies and REQUIRE our help in the future they can ask and we can dispatch Soldiers, Sailors, and Marines to help where necessary.

Reform military procurement and R&D. PERIOD. No if’s, and’s or but’s. It should NOT take over a decade to field a new fighter, weapon, vehicle, or warship. If it does, something’s wrong and we need a new contractor on the job.

If we are attacked use all resources at our disposal to find and turn into glass the people who did so and/or the nation(s) that protect them. If there are any local people left who want to rebuild afterward they can do whatever the hell they want. By themselves. NO MORE NATION BUILDING!

Eliminate by EO the right of public sector workers to unionize at the Federal level.

The UN building will now be given the status of US territory. In plain English, if the UN wants to stay in NYC they can damn well PAY RENT on the property. Otherwise find somewhere else to squat rent-free. Withdraw our Ambassador to the UN as well.

End the “War on Drugs” in its present form and legalize marijuana. Allow adults to consume, ingest and smoke whatever they like. Legal age of 18 for tobacco, alcohol and now marijuana would still be the standard. Instead of fighting and destroying the plants and farmers who grow them, arrange a buyout procedure. I’m certain the pharmaceutical industry can put all the extra opium, cocoa, and other natural plants that are milled into illegal drugs to good use. Even if only by burning them.

Reform corporate and personal income taxes to a flat tax rate with no deductions whatsoever or eliminate all income taxes (and the 17th Amendment at the same time) in favor of a national consumption tax (FairTax)

The problem with defaulting on our debt is it probably would nuke the U.S. economy.

SgtSVJones on January 5, 2011 at 2:12 AM

where the crap did my comment go?

SgtSVJones on January 5, 2011 at 2:21 AM

Glenn Beck: Raising the debt ceiling is the beginning of the end for Republicans

Chicken Little is selling well these days.

how exactly is it “fiscally conservative” to willingly default on your obligations?

When the creditor and has no stomach for foreclosure proceedings and is amenable to modifying the obligations, of course it is not fiscally conservative to willingly default.

That said, it is also not fiscally conservative to continually request modifications to the obligations while willingly failing to produce a plan to begin principal payments.

rukiddingme on January 5, 2011 at 2:23 AM

I don’t see why congress can’t identify all non essential programs and drastically reduce their funding. I know entitlements are the lions share, and it may take what Beck is saying to handle those – a collapse… but we can try to stave it off by cutting hundreds of programs out – everywhere we can think of. Anything that does not create serious instability or long term damage should see cuts. It will be a confidence builder. I know Democrats will never have the best interest of the country in mind and will call foul on EVERY cut, but we do this or die as a nation.

scotash on January 5, 2011 at 2:25 AM

I don’t see why congress can’t identify all non essential programs and drastically reduce their funding.

scotash on January 5, 2011 at 2:25 AM

They can, but the democrats will fill that with more entitlement funding. So it never ends.

Government has a saying: “We have to spend everything in our budget, because if we don’t, we won’t get the same funding next year”

Spend it or lose it. That’s the mentality.

Essential bills to fund needed programs are gang raped with pet projects not related to the primary need. Congress is an STD.

Kini on January 5, 2011 at 3:06 AM

We could cut “essentials” like SS and Medicare and the military. Even a 1% cut would mean hundreds of billions over the next decade. But we never will because of your mentality. So instead we just keep adding to the debt.

angryed on January 4, 2011 at 10:53 PM

Your point reminds me of a fellow SS recipient who was whining that SS has not had a COLA for a while even as costs of living are rising. The fool does not understand that raising SS monthly payouts requires raising the deficit through borrowing more money and, thus, increasing increasing inflation with printed, valueless dollars.

I had similar arguments that went nowhere when he was whining that the minimum wage should be raised. When I pointed out that employers would necessarily have to cut staff, most probably the youngest, least skilled workers, he failed to understand my point.

The man was “educated” (degreed) beyond his own intelligence. An understanding of basic economic principles was not part of his repertoire.

onlineanalyst on January 5, 2011 at 5:48 AM

Not raising the ceiling is not the equivalent of defaulting on the debt.

Not paying out service fee on the debt is defaulting on the debt, and that is currently at 1/3 of all tax receipts.

If you don’t raise the ceiling you still have income coming in, and to be a non-deadbeat you make sure you make the payments on your debt. With the other 2/3 left you then have decisions of what to fund and what not to fund. Congress gets to make those decisions and they also get to tell Barack Obama that with any funds still not spent in the accounts of agencies that he gets to shut them down in an orderly fashion: that is what executives get to do.

Our government takes in $2 trillion in tax receipts every year. Finding a way to live within that very, very, very generous amount is not rocket science, but an exercise what are the very basics that government is Constitutionally required to run. The rest can go away. That is not ‘defaulting on debt’ but being unable to keep the promises of previous Congresses that were made in bad faith. Telling the American People that in good faith you cannot spend the Nation into oblivion is something that will be accepted as we have been told, year after year, that we cannot keep on piling up debt without there coming a day when that must stop.

That day is now close at hand.

And the pain only gets worse each and every time you don’t do this as more and more of income will be eaten up by debt servicing. Do we really want all tax receipts to only pay for debt servicing and NONE for the other things government does? We can step back now when it is still relatively easy though highly painful. Putting it off makes it worse and nearly ensures that we will not be able to service our debt and run a government. Then we are STUCK with tax receipts, alone, and no amount of printing money will change that equation for the better. If that is what you want – a deadbeat Nation unable to pay its debts and printing money like Weimar – then please say so.

ajacksonian on January 5, 2011 at 5:55 AM

No discussion is complete without mentioning Obama’s 2006 explanation of his vote against raising the debt ceiling: “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. . . . Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”

If Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling, surely it couldn’t be that bad, right?

JohnJ on January 4, 2011 at 10:14 PM

ObaMao’s words should be cited in the opening of the 112. Then, in the spirit of bipartisanship, the Republicans should embrace his former point of view, point it out to the Dems, and invite them to find ways to cut spending in order not to raise the deficit ceiling.

In the dead of night, two Christmases ago, Congress raised Fannie and Freddie’s ceiling from a defined amount to an open-ended slush fund. This open sewer needs to be repaired, investigated (Issa is probing several related issues in this regard), and defunded or delinked from the federal government.

onlineanalyst on January 5, 2011 at 5:58 AM

Give us what we want, and we’ll raise the debt “ceiling” for now (why call it a ceiling if it is always getting higher?).

Daemonocracy on January 4, 2011 at 11:19 PM

Was this what Pelosi had in mind when she claimed to crash through the marble ceiling as she took the gavel as Speaker in 2007?

onlineanalyst on January 5, 2011 at 6:03 AM

I shake my head…i don’t get it.
From my business experience we had to make drastic cuts in budgets…regularly. First reaction, “How? Can’t be done!!!”
Next day: “OK let’s get to work and figure it out!”
Not that hard!

winston on January 5, 2011 at 6:09 AM

winston on January 5, 2011 at 6:09 AM

sounds reasonable to me

cmsinaz on January 5, 2011 at 6:17 AM

don’t raise it….please!

cmsinaz on January 5, 2011 at 6:18 AM

The problem with defaulting on our debt is it probably would nuke the U.S. economy.

SgtSVJones on January 5, 2011 at 2:12 AM

When your comment finally made it through the filter…. wat a joke,

I read it and thought…. yup.

Ryan’s got the right idea. Will anyone listen?

Kini on January 5, 2011 at 6:25 AM

scotash on January 5, 2011 at 2:25 AM

boehner doesn’t have the gavel yet and they have been bashing the gop with the msm’s help…it doesn’t matter what we do, it will be bashed so you may as well go for the gusto…

cmsinaz on January 5, 2011 at 6:31 AM

I think AP is right on this one. It took many years to get into this mess, it is going to take more than five minutes to get out of it. But I also believe DeMint is trying to get some cuts in return for raising limit and the GOP should at least try.

Done That on January 5, 2011 at 6:43 AM

Done That on January 5, 2011 at 6:43 AM

Trace that back to the Community Reinvestment Act.

Jimmah Carter

Kini on January 5, 2011 at 6:56 AM

Easy for Beck to say, it is not as if he actually has to be responsible for running anything..other than his mouth.

Not long ago we heard people saying that it any end of life discussion for elderly people on medicare represents death panels…well what do people think would happen to all those people on medicare and medicaid and va if the government did not honor its own debt?

This is just absurd. I can think of no better way for the Republicans to lose their majority than to deliberately crash the system. It is irresponsible. People might not have wanted Obamacare and all this spending, but they don’t want another crash either.

Terrye on January 5, 2011 at 7:22 AM

Terrye: Check out the stealth tactics of Sebelius re ObaMaoCare to see how it endangers senior citizens and others that government considers expendable.

Ryan’s plan actually puts seniors and the upcoming generations in control of their own health-care decisions and insurance…and does not bust the budget, as well.

Doctors are fleeing. Doctor-owned hospitals are shrinking and/or not being permitted to be built via Catch-22 rules; and the elderly will have fewer options in getting health care.

onlineanalyst on January 5, 2011 at 7:28 AM

I forgot the link.
http://spectator.org/archives/2011/01/05/obamacares-dirty-tricks

onlineanalyst on January 5, 2011 at 7:29 AM

Terry

Beck runs a business and employs people.

You are a worthless leftist keyboard warrior.

You produce nothing of value.

Inanemergencydial on January 5, 2011 at 7:31 AM

TAKE THE DAAAMMM CREDIT CARD AWAY FROM BARRY.

stenwin77 on January 5, 2011 at 7:42 AM

Allahpundit’s simplified phrasing of the Debt Ceiling issue is rather weak.

The basis of fiscal conservative stance against Debt Ceiling can only be justified using A REAL MACROECONOMIC ANALYSIS.

The Ceiling set before was supposed to be THE CEILING, then a “hypothetical” (end-of-the-world) maximum level.

In short, THERE’S REALLY SOMETHING WRONG ABOUT THIS FEDERAL ECONOMY … and definitely IT’S NOT CEILING.

And everyone here has the idea on the things (causes) are really hurting the economy. THE LIST IS EXTREMELY LONG.

The Ceiling is just the indicator.

More than every, America needs a real “MOTHER” WITH EXPERIENCE IN “HOME ECONOMICS AND BUDGETING” to provide long-term solution to the deficit/borrowings issues!

TheAlamos on January 5, 2011 at 7:44 AM

Doctors are fleeing. Doctor-owned hospitals are shrinking and/or not being permitted to be built via Catch-22 rules; and the elderly will have fewer options in getting health care.

onlineanalyst on January 5, 2011 at 7:28 AM

I am an account manager for a 400 physician medical malpractice trust fund.

We have lost 120 physicians THIS YEAR - a direct effect of OBAMA CARE. OVER 1/4 of our docs have either retired, left traditional medicine or fled to a VA facility.

THAT IS MIND-BOGGLING. THey are scared, beyond words.

So am I.

stenwin77 on January 5, 2011 at 7:46 AM

The basis of fiscal conservative stance against the raising of the Debt Ceiling level can only be justified using A REAL MACROECONOMIC ANALYSIS.

sorry.

TheAlamos on January 5, 2011 at 7:46 AM

FierceGuppy on January 5, 2011 at 12:48 AM

You forgot a couple of DEAD-WOOD departments, DoInt, DoEd., NLRB, public sector unions..oh wait…the President can get rid of the public sector unions via EO, that’s how they began its easy to rescind the original EO.

belad on January 5, 2011 at 7:49 AM

One of the first things the democrats did when they took over Congress in 2007 was raise the debt limit.

They raised it to $9.8 Trillion.

Now, a short 4 years later we are knocking on $14.3 Trillion and they want to go higher?

This should scare the hell out of everybody.

cntrlfrk on January 5, 2011 at 7:57 AM

AP,

Raising the debt ceiling is nothing more than a green light for the gubbmint to keep their wild-ass reckless spending spree going. I think the first order of business is to freeze the spending rates and levels to 2000 levels. Then the Congress needs to do a thorough and complete audit of the federal reserve, followed closely by an audit of DoD, USDA,…you get the picture.

The 111th Congress got its wings clipped in November and the 112th Congress needs to really get close haircut. If the GOP won’t do it, then the people will remind them AGAIN in 2012 during the primary elections. That is all the people need to do is send their representatives a weekly reminder that they are watching, NOT SLEEPING and keeping score.

belad on January 5, 2011 at 8:00 AM

He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing.” Paul Atreides, Dune by Frank Hebert.

It is called brinkmanship. Every physical conservative for decades has always blinked and raised the debt ceiling. Maybe there are enough with the fortitude to cause the others to blink.

If your kid promised to buy a pony and a ranch to the owner of the ranch would you say OK? You would say NO. No to the pony and the ranch. No to the $800k study to see if African males can be taught to wash their junk after sex. Not actually teaching them to wash their junk, just the study to see if they CAN be taught.

barnone on January 5, 2011 at 8:00 AM

physical? fiscal

barnone on January 5, 2011 at 8:01 AM

Sounds like you just have a Beck problem and have no interest in actually discussing the Debt “ceiling”.

Daemonocracy on January 5, 2011 at 12:21 AM

Well you still have a problem defining “you people” sounds like you are the one confused.
You might want to look at the headlines, there are two stories there.
One is about the debt ceiling…the other is about Beck, the drama queen, discussing the debt ceiling.
Beck has shown to be a great entertainer…and not much else. And that is a story, people actually take him serious, and he is little more than a “right” minded Obama with about the same intellect.

right2bright on January 5, 2011 at 8:04 AM

This should scare the hell out of everybody.

cntrlfrk on January 5, 2011 at 7:57 AM

It does…but discuss the alternative, not the talking points alternative, but the actual working alternative.
Think through what not raising it actually creates.

right2bright on January 5, 2011 at 8:06 AM

Beck runs a business and employs people.

Inanemergencydial on January 5, 2011 at 7:31 AM

Beck is an entertainer, like Oprah, or Babs, or Johnny Depp…he is an entertainer, that is it. A good one, but not a particularly intelligent or honest one.
BTW…are you one of his minions that cried when he was hinting that he was possibly going blind, or that death was imminent? Get it now?
Well I was one that was lambasted when HotAir was full of the “Woe, he might be going blind, have you no heart?”…no, I have a heart, but also a brain, he was jerking your chain and increasing his listener-ship.
I have not seen one Beck worshiper state how disappointed they were with being duped by him.

right2bright on January 5, 2011 at 8:14 AM

Glenn Beck is the Jack Van Impe of talk punditry. He’s a doom and gloomer no matter how he packages it. When he’s spot on, he okay but when he goes off on his “we’re going down in flames” rhetoric, it’s hard to listen to.

Van Impe, for those who don’t know the name, is a televangelist famous for filling his half hour shows with 25 minutes of end of the world predictions followed up by 30 seconds of happy “praise Jesus” talk. I’m sorry, I can’t get motivated to feel good about anything when you spent so much energy telling me we’re all going to be miserable and life as we know it will end. Beck’s the same way.

Pcoop on January 5, 2011 at 8:15 AM

Stay strong new Reps.

Do not raise the debt ceiling. Stop this all-you-can-eat buffet mentality now. There is plenty of waste to cut, take the time to find, expose and cut it.

Fallon on January 5, 2011 at 8:16 AM

All things considered here, I relly think we should hear more about Scarlett Johansson.

MikeA on January 5, 2011 at 8:17 AM

Current European Tax Rates:

United Kingdom
Income Tax: 50%
VAT: 17.5% TOTAL: 67.5%

France
Income Tax: 40%
VAT: 19.6% TOTAL: 59.6%

Greece
Income Tax: 40%
VAT: 25% TOTAL: 65%

Spain
Income Tax: 45%
VAT: 16% TOTAL: 61%

Portugal
Income Tax: 42%
VAT: 20% TOTAL: 62%

Sweden
Income Tax: 55%
VAT: 25% TOTAL: 80%

Norway
Income Tax: 54.3%
VAT: 25% TOTAL: 79.3%

Netherlands
Income Tax: 52%
VAT: 19% TOTAL: 71%

Denmark
Income Tax: 58%
VAT: 25% TOTAL: 83%

Finland
Income Tax: 53%
VAT: 22% TOTAL: 75%

Keemo on January 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM

I might add this; as much as I respect Mr. Beck for all that he has done to expose the socialist machinery, I can only stomach his radio program for about an hour before I must turn the channel. The constant doom an gloom must be monitored while adding some positive into the programming.

Keemo on January 5, 2011 at 8:21 AM

Well you still have a problem defining “you people” sounds like you are the one confused.
You might want to look at the headlines, there are two stories there.
One is about the debt ceiling…the other is about Beck, the drama queen, discussing the debt ceiling.
Beck has shown to be a great entertainer…and not much else. And that is a story, people actually take him serious, and he is little more than a “right” minded Obama with about the same intellect.

right2bright on January 5, 2011 at 8:04 AM

I smell troll.

exsanguine on January 5, 2011 at 8:27 AM

What if the debt ceiling was raised on the pre-condition that it be raised no further? Then Congress would be forced to act and immediate default is off the table.

Angry Dumbo on January 5, 2011 at 8:32 AM

Patience my friends…

toliver on January 4, 2011 at 11:34 PM

Patience is what got us saddled with a growing unsustainable debt that we have now.

There is no more time to be patient. If we don’t stop spending now, and yes I mean instantly, and in a big way, we’re over.

We’ve been patiently talking about balancing the budget, reigning in the debt, etc, for DECADES.

We’re out of time.

Midas on January 5, 2011 at 8:32 AM

For all of you that say if we don’t raise the ceiling we will be defaulting on our obligations. What do you think printing money to raise the ceiling is…it’s default. The difference is the government and all those that depend on the government will get hurt. By printing money and continuing this ponzi scheme they destroy our dollar and everyone get hurt. The middle class along with small business will disappear. It’s hurt now, or watch our children live in a place that we have fought wars over to defend no longer exist.

wheelgun on January 5, 2011 at 8:32 AM

Sorry guys but there is no solution that either government or the banks can impose that has a snowball’s chance in hades of working. Its not taxes, its not spending. ITS THE DEBT! There is no hope of it ever being retired only paying interest in perpetuity, which is just what the bankers want, a nation of debt slaves. Time to embrace default and collapse and build on the rubble provided that we can banish fiat currency, the FED and the NY banksters once and for all and return to an asset based monetary system.

LCT688 on January 5, 2011 at 8:44 AM

OK, I’d like to screw Scarlett Johansson next time she magically appears in my hammock next time I go hiking. toliver on January 5, 2011 at 12:28 AM

You stay classy, hear?

Akzed on January 5, 2011 at 8:45 AM

We’re $250b away from the ceiling. It used to take some time to spend that kind of money.

I said it with TARP and I’ll say it again, despite what you cowards all think. A cleansing fire is a good and proper thing in any eco-system from time to time. This applies to any economic system as well.

Aquateen Hungerforce on January 4, 2011 at 10:05 PM

Precisely. Raising the debt ceiling is just prolonging the inevitable and by prolonging it, it will make the inevitable even more painful. Time to take our medicine now and clear away the dead wood now than let it grow and wait for that wildfire to come in and clear it out as well as our home.

mizflame98 on January 5, 2011 at 8:48 AM

I smell troll.

exsanguine on January 5, 2011 at 8:27 AM

I smell a fool…better read a little before making stupid comments.
I have been commenting on this site for about 3 years…and one thing I have never been called (until now) is a troll.
So I stepped on your little widdy Becky’s toes and you now think I am a troll.
Your stupidity, and ignorance, has been noted…now do a little history check on me, then get back to me and call me a troll…fool.
I think Beck is a tool, and not too bright…I think Rush is brilliant, Palin is right on but not ready, Mitt is a confused candidate, Huck is whatever, and I think Boehner is doing the right thing, and Issa is going about it cautiously, step by step, and he is going to have some great trophy’s hanging in his den by 2012.
But to you…if someone thinks Beck is just an entertainer, then he is a troll…good analysis…keep posting you are F’in brilliant…
Now back to my real question….
Tell us what will happen, not talking points but reality, if we don’t raise the debt ceiling.
So far none of you geniuses can answer that…mainly because the real answer puts us in a worse economic position then we are right now.
Sometimes you have to swallow the awful tasting medicine to cure the disease…sometimes you have just two choices (raise or not raise) and neither (right now) are ideal choices, so choose the one that is least harmful long term.

right2bright on January 5, 2011 at 8:51 AM

I said it with TARP and I’ll say it again, despite what you cowards all think. A cleansing fire is a good and proper thing in any eco-system from time to time. This applies to any economic system as well.

Aquateen Hungerforce on January 4, 2011 at 10:05 PM

So you think a little depression and 25% unemployment helps the U.S., especially after these past couple of years.
Great that you use the word “cleansing”, now tell us what will really happen if we don’t raise the ceiling.
Like I stated, none of you economic geniuses have done anything but state talking points and bumper sticker statements.

right2bright on January 5, 2011 at 8:55 AM

Keemo on January 5, 2011 at 8:18 AM

Do I have to assume that the list of Euro-trash taxes is cause of them being failed economies because of their incessant taxing and everyone expecting the gubbmint to provide for them or is just your way to show that we, in America, need to be taxed more?

If it is the former, fine…if it is the later then I would point out that even with the high tax rates they aren’t generating enough revenue to sustain their existence. That is why they are Euro-trash circling the bowl!

belad on January 5, 2011 at 8:59 AM

We need some plain-talkers… just come out and say “We know we have to raise the ceiling, but we will only raise it to $xxx and only if we get xxx in return. We believe the American people understand our position here and support this new direction.”

But they won’t… Hannity will play irrelevant clips of Geraldine Ferraro and put up a poll at his site asking which Democrat has the best/funniest hairdo… and Republicans will line-up to be on his show and join in the stupidity.

mankai on January 5, 2011 at 9:06 AM

Like I stated, none of you economic geniuses have done anything but state talking points and bumper sticker statements.

right2bright on January 5, 2011 at 8:55 AM

At least we aren’t getting our talking points from Austan Ghoulsby

snoopicus on January 5, 2011 at 9:06 AM

belad on January 5, 2011 at 8:59 AM

The rest of my comment didn’t make it to the post. This is where the Liberals desire to take us, and look at where it got Europe. They’re taxed into the ground and still bankrupt.

Keemo on January 5, 2011 at 9:07 AM

So far none of you geniuses can answer that…mainly because the real answer puts us in a worse economic position then we are right now.
Sometimes you have to swallow the awful tasting medicine to cure the disease…sometimes you have just two choices (raise or not raise) and neither (right now) are ideal choices, so choose the one that is least harmful long term.

right2bright on January 5, 2011 at 8:51 AM

Your spittle flecked tirade aside: You have, what seems to be, a psychosis to all things “Beck.” Rather than simply commenting on his thoughts you have to preface them with ad hominems and insults first for nearly every post. It is tiring.

Now to the meat of the matter: There is NO avoiding pain in this situation. We wither do it now where we metaphorically lose an arm, or we play ostrich and do it later where we take a bullet to the head.

As I said earlier, cut it now, cut it all, cut it deep.

Is that “economic genius” enough for you, oh 3 year poster, grand poobah of the HA elite?

exsanguine on January 5, 2011 at 9:09 AM

Where is Michelle Obama on cutting the fat in government?

Fallon on January 5, 2011 at 9:09 AM

What if the debt ceiling was raised on the pre-condition that it be raised no further? Then Congress would be forced to act and immediate default is off the table.

Angry Dumbo on January 5, 2011 at 8:32 AM

That’d work. It’d work the next time, too.

PersonFromPorlock on January 5, 2011 at 9:09 AM

Superb analysis, Allah.

Glenn, you’re a smart guy, but you’re out of your league here. Budgetary changes can and must be made going forward, but to default on our debt is unthinkable.

Buy Danish on January 5, 2011 at 9:10 AM

Refusing to raise the ceiling only results in a default if you stop paying on your current debts. If we have to borrow money to pay debts we are simply putting off the big reckoning and increasing the size of the debt we will have to deal with. You can’t pay off your mastercard with your visa with the hopes that a new amex is in the mail to cover the next round. Let me ask AP and the others that want the ceiling raised, What is the right amount 20 tril? 15 tril? What is it, what is the limit?

snoopicus on January 5, 2011 at 9:10 AM

right2bright on January 5, 2011 at 8:51 AM

Google government agencies and see what comes up. Pages and pages of agencies that have long out lived their purpose. Once an agency is created to accomplish something, it is never shut down and only grows as it develops new forms of life. The FCC is a good example of this.

Keemo on January 5, 2011 at 9:12 AM

So far none of you geniuses can answer that…mainly because the real answer puts us in a worse economic position then we are right now.
Sometimes you have to swallow the awful tasting medicine to cure the disease…sometimes you have just two choices (raise or not raise) and neither (right now) are ideal choices, so choose the one that is least harmful long term.

right2bright on January 5, 2011 at 8:51 AM

No you just picked the easiest solution that everyone picks, kick the can down the road.

snoopicus on January 5, 2011 at 9:12 AM

The constant doom an gloom must be monitored while adding some positive into the programming.

Keemo on January 5, 2011 at 8:21 AM

Why do you think I call him ‘Chicken Little’?

ladyingray on January 5, 2011 at 9:15 AM

Beck is good for a lot of things. However, when I want an intellectual debate he is not the person that I would turn to. This is yet just another thing that he is wrong about. He’s an alarmist who says crazy things for ratings and publicity. The more riled up and scared he makes his fans the better is it for him. I wish he would go back to being the way he was about five years ago on his radio show…hilarious and not crazy.

keepinitreal on January 5, 2011 at 9:18 AM

I wish he would go back to being the way he was about five years ago on his radio show…hilarious and not crazy.
keepinitreal on January 5, 2011 at 9:18 AM

His Fox tv show was (and is) great when it sticks to exposing the Left, or inviting historians in to examine American History. When he plays the role of fiery evangelist he loses me. It’s disturbing that so many in his flock take his every word as the gospel.

Buy Danish on January 5, 2011 at 9:34 AM

The house GOP cannot worry about cuts that will eventually get signed into law, they need to keep sending reduction bills to the senate every day until November 2012 and let the Dems there publicly destroy themselves.

We’d be in for some hard times, but the good times afterward would be awesome.

pugwriter on January 5, 2011 at 9:38 AM

The sooner ths system fails, the sooner we can move forward to replace it with something that works.

No government in the history of man has ever paid off it’s debts, but every government/economic currency has eventually failed due to debt.

PatriotRider on January 5, 2011 at 9:39 AM

“If we don’t raise the debt ceiling, it will be an economic catastrophe”.

Definition: “If we don’t borrow more money we won’t be able to pay the debt on the money we borrowed last time we could not pay the debt on the money we borrowed the time before that when we could not pay the debt on the money we …. ”

Here, all you government idiots: call these people, they can help: CareOne Credit Counseling. They even have a video of cute gal on the home page that will explain how they can help.

Rod on January 5, 2011 at 9:41 AM

Bring it on…no more debt.

Cut of the government and the banksters from doing more damage then they have already done.

PatriotRider on January 5, 2011 at 9:42 AM

“If we don’t raise the debt ceiling, it will be an economic catastrophe”.

Rod on January 5, 2011 at 9:41 AM

Good

PatriotRider on January 5, 2011 at 9:44 AM

The sooner ths system fails, the sooner we can move forward to replace it with something that works.
PatriotRider on January 5, 2011 at 9:39 AM

Allah’s right. It’s just like the Cloward-Piven strategy. Apparently some of you won’t be satisfied until we reach the stage of full out anarchy.

Think about this: What has happened historically in times of extreme crisis? Did the world end up with benevolent leaders or murderous tyrants?

Moreover, the gloomy prognostications are over the top. We can fix the economy and our nation’s future with prudent spending cuts and other steps which cut the deficit and create conditions for economic growth (which…ta da…cuts the deficit!).

Buy Danish on January 5, 2011 at 9:45 AM

Moreover, the gloomy prognostications are over the top. We can fix the economy and our nation’s future with prudent spending cuts and other steps which cut the deficit and create conditions for economic growth (which…ta da…cuts the deficit!).

Buy Danish on January 5, 2011 at 9:45 AM

Then why dont they do that than raise the ceiling? Because there are no real plans to cut anything.

snoopicus on January 5, 2011 at 9:47 AM

Moreover, the gloomy prognostications are over the top. We can fix the economy and our nation’s future with prudent spending cuts and other steps which cut the deficit and create conditions for economic growth (which…ta da…cuts the deficit!).

Buy Danish on January 5, 2011 at 9:45 AM

Wow dude is your real name Barak Obama? We can borrow our way to prosperity! What is the high limit of the debt ceiling then? 15tril? 20 tril? At what point would even you start to agree that raising the ceiling doesn’t help us?

snoopicus on January 5, 2011 at 9:50 AM

The ceiling is just a ceiling.

That’s naive’. A ceiling is like expanding your credit card limit. If you’re a spending junky, raising the limit on your spending will inevitably lead to … more spending.

Sooner or later, we will need to bite the bullet and take a painful lesson, regardless if it collapses the US/global market. It seems like Allah is saying we have the ability to back up the limit increase, when in fact we DO NOT. Simply *stating* that we can go further in debt is an extremely short-sighted position, and one that we know will simply lead to those in Washington DC of saying, “Whew, now we have more breathing space to implement more pet projects”.

Until the federal government is forcefully cut off from funding/spending, the financial armageddon will only get worse…pay now, or *really* pay later.

Keep kicking that can down the road Allah, I’m sure all of our offspring will appreciate it. /sarc

Geministorm on January 5, 2011 at 9:52 AM

Because there are no real plans to cut anything.

snoopicus on January 5, 2011 at 9:47 AM

Exactly Correct!!!

The system has been rigged to fail, with the only beneficiaries being government and Wall Street. Everybody else gets screwed. Remember these famous words…”only the little people pay taxes” Leona Helmsley

PatriotRider on January 5, 2011 at 9:54 AM

Sorry, I see no reason not to draw a line in the sand and say “No more.” If this was the first, second or third time – may be. But this has been going on for decades and the solution is simple. Immediately cut all government spending across the board. Yeah, it will hurt and cause damage. But so does the alternative. And at least this will put us on the right track. I will gladly vote against any Representative or Senator voting to raise the debt ceiling instead of voting to cut spending.

Over50 on January 5, 2011 at 9:54 AM

Perhaps already noted…

Is it simplistic to think that rather than RAISING the debt ceiling, why don’t we LOWER the spending floor?

If we have $N dollars of debt, and don’t want to take on more, and still need the capital to service the debt, if we cut spending, those $X dollars retained can provide for our obligations withour raising the ceiling.

grumpy_old_soldier on January 5, 2011 at 9:54 AM

right2bright

I’m really happy that my innocuous comment fueled your diatribe.

Congratulations!

Inanemergencydial on January 5, 2011 at 9:57 AM

Its this whole we can deal with it later attitude that is the problem? While we wait to deal with it the problem literally gets bigger. This is what zaps my confidence in this country. Even half of the “right” refuses to entertain true cuts to balance the budget, or in this case even a limit on that debt.

snoopicus on January 5, 2011 at 9:58 AM

Let’s play a game. It’s called “Who Said That?” Here’s the quote:

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.

Who said that?
A) John Boehner
B) Darrell Issa
C) Lindsey Graham
D) Newt Gingrich
E) Barack Obama

If you chose any of the first four, you’re WRONG. Then Senator Barack Obama said that on the Senate floor during as speech on public debt March 16, 2006.

The phrase “raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure” definitely applies today.

[NOTE: I know many of my fellow conservatives already know about the quote since it's been brought up many times already in the past several days but I posted it here for the benefit of the few who didn't know of the quote.]

Carl on January 5, 2011 at 9:59 AM

Progressive/Big Fed Govers in charge of both parties…..and too many SoundByte Americans more tuned into their kids soccer or Dance classes than the coming collapse of the Republic.

Sad days ahead……get ready.

PappyD61 on January 5, 2011 at 10:00 AM

Because there are no real plans to cut anything.
snoopicus on January 5, 2011 at 9:47 AM

How about you wait and let them be sworn in first? Give them, maybe a few days before you jump to conclusions?

Radical change (see Obama!) is not the solution. Changes to entitlements need to be gradual. You can’t just throw people out into the streets. For example the retirement age can be raised gradually. From 65, to 65 and 1 month, 65 and 2 months and so forth. Paul Ryan has good ideas that do not call for radical upheaval.

You all need to calm down and think about the unintended consequences of your pitchforky demands. You may think that it would be cool to hole up and live on a carefully prepared supply of canned food and water for a few years, awaiting some ‘great awakening’. Most of us couldn’t do that if we wanted to, but would prefer a different scenario even if we could.

Buy Danish on January 5, 2011 at 10:01 AM

then get cracking on real budget cuts — and entitlement reform — to start moving us away from that ceiling, never to return.

LOL. You’re a very funny man, AP.

CTD on January 5, 2011 at 10:04 AM

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