End of the line for ethanol?

posted at 2:15 pm on November 30, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

Has the federal government’s appetite for ethanol ended?  A bipartisan group of Senators signed a letter today calling for an end to subsidies and tariffs designed to protect and enhance domestic production of ethanol, which has been until recently the darling of the alternative-energy movement.  In a sign of how far ethanol subsidies have fallen from favor, the letter addressed to both Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell has the signatures of such liberal luminaries as Barbara Boxer, Dianne Feinstein, and the newly-elected Chris Coons:

In a clear sign of momentum against ethanol subsidies, a bipartisan group of more than a dozen senators has signed onto a letter urging Senate leaders to let the subsidies expire during this Congress, a move that could put many officials in a tricky political spot and could even have ramifications for the 2012 presidential race.

The letter, which I obtained from a source, was authored by senators Dianne Feinstein and Jon Kyl, and includes a number of Democrats and Republicans, including John McCain, Susan Collins, Richard Burr, and Mike Enzi. This is key, because the question of whether the subsidies should expire is emerging as a key test — just like earmarks — of whether Republicans are serious about reining in spending and the deficit.

While this issue could divide Dems along regional lines, it’s more directly relevant to the GOP. With leading GOP senators now coming out for letting the subsidies expire, this could up the pressure on Republican senators who backed the subsidies in the past, such as Chuck Grassley and Orrin Hatch, putting them on the wrong side of what may emerge as a key litmus test for the Tea Party and potentially dividing the GOP caucus.

Greg Sargent misses the significance of Boxer’s name on this list.  Boxer has a cap-and-trade bill stalled in the Senate, earlier versions of which relied on ethanol to meet its goals.  The ethanol subsidies allowed Midwest farmers to have some buy-in for a bill that would otherwise levy some significant costs on agriculture.  This more or less puts an end to that support, which means that Boxer has acknowledged the death of cap-and-trade.

Will this divide the GOP?  It will make for some contentious discussions on agricultural policy, no doubt, especially in the House where the GOP picked up a number of seats.  But it’s just as likely to hurt Democrats in the Senate, especially those running for 2012 re-elections from ag-heavy states.  Ben Nelson of Nebraska is the obvious incumbent for the hot seat, but Jon Tester in Montana and Mark Pryor in Arkansas also will have to answer for it.

It may, however, have some impact on the 2012 presidential nomination race, which starts in Iowa — the heart of corn country.  It’s not necessary for a GOP candidate to win Iowa in order to win the nomination — Mike Huckabee won it last year and finished a distant third — but it’s usually necessary for a candidate to do well in the caucuses.  Tea Party activists will see an end to subsidies as a success, but will GOP presidential candidates start pandering to corn farmers in Iowa to gain an advantage in the first round of the nominating process?  That may well be a good test for the sincerity of those candidates running as small-government conservatives.

The letter makes clear just how much the government has intervened to coddle ethanol production:

Historically, our government has helped a product compete in one of three ways: subsidize it, protect it from competition, or require its use.  We understand that ethanol may be the only product receiving all three forms of support from the US government at this time.

It’s long past time for those efforts to cease.  Converting food to fuel not only doesn’t work as a replacement for gasoline, it expands starvation by artificially inflating corn prices and making it more difficult to purchase.  This letter might be the first step in dismantling an expensive and ongoing failure.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4 5

Gotta keep up my hillbilly cred, dontcha know.

hillbillyjim on November 30, 2010 at 5:10 PM

Lolz! Whadja’ kill fer supper?

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 5:15 PM

Lolz! Whadja’ kill fer supper?

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 5:15 PM

Coupla possums. Whut else?

MMMMmmmm. Possum gravy, grits, and biskits!!!

Later.

hillbillyjim on November 30, 2010 at 5:17 PM

Glad I drive a diesel. The faster this stupidity is stopped the better. Plus it’ll not only lower the costs of our food, but of other poorer nations like Mexico.

Iblis on November 30, 2010 at 5:06 PM

low sulfer isn’t helping diesels either.

Oh, that’s great. So when you go where it’s cold, your fuel doesn’t freeze — it gels. And you have to leave your glow plugs on for five minutes before you crank the noisy stinky engine anytime it’s less than 50 degrees out. Hypotheticals all, but ya know…

;-)

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 5:10 PM

my diesel doesn’t have glow plugs. You must be thining old style or older military trucks. ;)

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 5:22 PM

hillbillyjim on November 30, 2010 at 5:17 PM

Too bad those yahoo cretinous self-appointed elitists don’t know who you really are and just judge you by your handle.
Later, my brother.

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 5:22 PM

my diesel doesn’t have glow plugs. You must be thining old style or older military trucks. ;)

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 5:22 PM

No glow plugs? How do you start when it’s cold up there? Integrated block heater?

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 5:23 PM

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 5:22 PM

Don’t sweat it, OC. I think Jim wears it like a badge of pride.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 5:24 PM

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 5:24 PM

Yep. I know he does.

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 5:27 PM

Cattle people cry cause they have to pay .15c/lb for DDG which has all the nutrients the original piece of corn had instead of getting it for free. Cost for this is almost nothing and it can be nothing if they just put their cows out to pasture….which a lot of cattle people have done.
xRos on November 30, 2010 at 3:27 PM
I’m not following you here. Can you clarify? When did cattle feeders ever get corn for free, even if they raise it? Also, could you expound a bit more on how one saves money in the long run by putting feedlot cattle out to pasture?

a capella on November 30, 2010 at 3:59 PM

Since I raise cattle, I think I can weigh in on this one.
Listen up xRos:
Feeders ‘whine’ as you say bcs it’s hurting their PROFITS. And their profit margins are THIN. So if you go biting into that, like subsidies for producing ethanol have done, you erode their PROFITS. Which means they pay ME LESS MONEY for my calves. So that means I MAKE LESS MONEY.
My profit margins are thin also.
PErhaps you’d suggest me to get out of the business.
That isn’t helpful, of course.
Finishing cattle on grass does not give the POUNDS in gain that corn does nor does it give the TASTE (marbling) that corn does.
So grass finished cattle is LESS PROFITABLE.
Go figure.
Cattle feeders actually can LOSE MONEY on grass fed beef unless there are buyers willing to pay the premium for that service.
That is a niche market & is not that profitable for large numbers.
So ethanol subsidies might have lined xRos’ pockets bcs he/she builds ethanol plants (that are subsidized), but they are affecting MY BOTTOM LINE & it pi$$e$ me off!

Badger40 on November 30, 2010 at 5:28 PM

No glow plugs? How do you start when it’s cold up there? Integrated block heater?

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 5:23 PM

well.. that and a battery warmer and a fuel pan warmer. And I am getting a auto start with a temp guage that when it reaches 5 degrees it automatically starts for 20 minutes and turns itself off and redoes it every 2 – 4 hours. Very expensive little gadget.

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 5:29 PM

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 5:24 PM

I have been here for years, and recently completed a self-appointed ten month hiatus to clear my heart of hatred. When did you get in?

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 5:29 PM

MY BOTTOM LINE & it pi$$e$ me off!

Badger40 on November 30, 2010 at 5:28 PM

vent my sista … vent!

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 5:30 PM

No glow plugs? How do you start when it’s cold up there? Integrated block heater?

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 5:23 PM

oh and most diesel engines have push tubes now. ;)

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 5:32 PM

Badger40 on November 30, 2010 at 5:28 PM

Thanks for proving my point.

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 5:32 PM

It’s just a different way of doing things for a variety of very valid reasons.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 5:05 PM

Agreed. But one other thing you said:

so their marbling is poor and they don’t fetch quite the price they would otherwise.

may have been true several years ago. But quality grass fed beef can fetch several $$$$’s more per pound than conventional grain fed beef nowadays.

This is one of the reasons we are seeing more and more grass fed cattle ranchers. Same is true for chickens. I can get $5-6 a lb for farm raised chicken. Believe it or not.

BierManVA on November 30, 2010 at 5:34 PM

low sulfer isn’t helping diesels either.

Oh, that’s great. So when you go where it’s cold, your fuel doesn’t freeze — it gels. And you have to leave your glow plugs on for five minutes before you crank the noisy stinky engine anytime it’s less than 50 degrees out. Hypotheticals all, but ya know…

;-)

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 5:10 PM
my diesel doesn’t have glow plugs. You must be thining old style or older military trucks. ;)

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 5:22 PM

Did any of you know that sulfur in diesel fuel causes less, if no, water to be held in the fuel.
Without the presence of sulfur in diesel fuel, there is now more water in the fuel allowing ALGAE to grow in fuel tanks.
My husband & I are at our wit’s end trying to get rid of the ALGAE in our 2000 Peterbuilt’s tanks. They clog up the fuel filters, almost down to like changing them every 100 miles at like 40 buck or so a pop.
And even if you get your tank steam cleaned (like $2000), you’ll just pick up algae when you fuel up somewhere.
Isn’t that low-sulfur requirement of the government’s just GREAT?!

Badger40 on November 30, 2010 at 5:34 PM

Thanks for proving my point.

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 5:32 PM

which one would that be. The one where you hope and pray that ethanol is here to stay or the one where all farmers (plant and meat) aren’t making a cut and can barely make a profit margin?

this isn’t quid pro quo.. this is life. And you are the person who is going to be the first mobbed by simpletons. FYI.. most people in here are far from “simple”.

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 5:34 PM

Thanks for proving my point.

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 5:32 PM

So I’m a whiner bcs subsidies that you profit off of are affecting the money I make indirectly?
If this is true, you are nothing but a welfare pr!ck.
That is a real nice attitude there mister.
Damn. What a POS.

Badger40 on November 30, 2010 at 5:35 PM

I have been here for years, and recently completed a self-appointed ten month hiatus to clear my heart of hatred. When did you get in?

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 5:29 PM

Get in? To the HotAir comments? I was a charter commenter when this site started — its very first day, in fact.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 5:36 PM

That is a real nice attitude there mister.
Damn. What a POS.

Badger40 on November 30, 2010 at 5:35 PM

Heh…

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 5:37 PM

may have been true several years ago. But quality grass fed beef can fetch several $$$$’s more per pound than conventional grain fed beef nowadays.

This is one of the reasons we are seeing more and more grass fed cattle ranchers. Same is true for chickens. I can get $5-6 a lb for farm raised chicken. Believe it or not.

BierManVA on November 30, 2010 at 5:34 PM

Notcie what I said above. It’s a niche market.
You have to spend considerable effort, & sometimes $$, to change your operation to sell cattle this way.
Niche markets are nice. But lots of people still want to eat a grain fed steak.
The $$ is not that available everywhere in the premium for grass fed.

Badger40 on November 30, 2010 at 5:37 PM

Thanks for proving my point.

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 5:32 PM

Which is what? That gov’t should subsidize ethanol even though there is no benefit to do so? Don’t claim to be a conservative and then live off the gov’t teat. You can’t be both.

Monkeytoe on November 30, 2010 at 5:37 PM

My husband & I are at our wit’s end trying to get rid of the ALGAE in our 2000 Peterbuilt’s tanks.
Badger40 on November 30, 2010 at 5:34 PM

Disconnect the fule lines. Put in rock salt, clorox and ready for this……..lyme. If you can use a power sprayer with this diluted mixture.. do it. Let it sit for a couple hours. You know (you smarty woman) like Iknow the lyme will go the trick. Just make sure to wash it out GOOD before putting in diesel.

I feel your pain!

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 5:38 PM

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 5:36 PM

Oh, sorry. I am still re-learning all my friends. I still don’t know very much about Sharon Angle because of my hiatus…

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 5:38 PM

FYI.. most people in here are far from “simple”.

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 5:34 PM

I’ll accept the label of “simple” if by that, you mean I’m not an overly-complex person. But if you mean “Simple Simon” simple? Forget about it.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 5:39 PM

I’ll accept the label of “simple” if by that, you mean I’m not an overly-complex person. But if you mean “Simple Simon” simple? Forget about it.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 5:39 PM

lol the former would be correct!

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 5:40 PM

My husband & I are at our wit’s end trying to get rid of the ALGAE in our 2000 Peterbuilt’s tanks.
Badger40 on November 30, 2010 at 5:34 PM

or use rock salt and lyme and then clorox. Either way it is a long, nasty.. process.

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 5:41 PM

Somebody else want to try?

blink on November 30, 2010 at 5:38 PM

It’s HFCS subsidies, bub. What else do you want from me? The 1982 farm bill was twice as large as Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, in terms of number of pages. You should try poring over that if that’s the level of detail you want in your answer.

Essentially, HFCS is another sugar. It comes from corn. It was made less expensive by an action of government, the particulars of which I don’t remember. Corn sales have skyrocketed ever since, along with the price of and demand for more corn.

What else do you want from me? You must be corn farmer.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 5:42 PM

BTW-subsidies do affect food prices.
American food is low in cost bcs the federal govt subsidizes all types of agriculture, manipulating the prices of all kinds of foods, raw food products, etc.
By subsidizing corn, we are indirectly affecting how much grain is available to be eaten by either raising varieties not meant for food, taking land out of production for ethanol & so then not planting more food, etc.
Americans are not starving.
I remember the rice ‘crisis’ & noticed how I could still buy all the rice I wanted at Sam’s Club in Bismarck.
But noticed how people in 3rd world countries could not.
So our decisions in agriculture here in America do affect whether some people may or may not starve, just by the planting decision farmers make.
I’m not saying we’re the cause of their starvation, but we certainly are not helping them any.
And the super poor people in America will have less $$ to spend on good nutritional food when the price of food goes up, even if it is by nickels & dimes.

Badger40 on November 30, 2010 at 5:43 PM

Don’t sweat it, OC. I think Jim wears it like a badge of pride.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 5:24 PM

Damn straight.

hillbillyjim on November 30, 2010 at 5:44 PM

Great! Now how am I supposed to power my Flux Capacitor?

Rovin on November 30, 2010 at 3:00 PM

Easily, if you’ll apply the simple modifications illustrated here.

Barnestormer on November 30, 2010 at 5:45 PM

which one would that be. The one where you hope and pray that ethanol is here to stay or the one where all farmers (plant and meat) aren’t making a cut and can barely make a profit margin?
upinak on November 30, 2010 at 5:34 PM

The one about whiney cattle farmers. And he did. None of these big cattle people are going broke so you can cry me a river on their profit margins. They have gained as much from or more from corn subsidies as anyone.

Ethanol isnt going away in my lifetime (Im 41), but it does have a shelf life. I dont believe it was ever meant to be something that would “stay” but something that could fill a needed gap until we can get to whatever the next thing is.

Also, Ive never said I was for any subsidy, I have only argued food -> fuel.

this isn’t quid pro quo.. this is life. And you are the person who is going to be the first mobbed by simpletons. FYI.. most people in here are far from “simple”.

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 5:34 PM

Honestly, I dont even know what you mean by whatever this statement is.

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 5:50 PM

can’t tell you how many snowmobilers have had their multiple $15,000.00 sleds need major engine repairs over the last couple of years.

maineconservative on November 30, 2010 at 5:52 PM

Anyone here drink tequila? Allow me, if I might, to regale you with a story. Bear with me. I have a point.

Tequila is made with a plant called Blue Agave. It is a botanical relative of cacti, although it doesn’t have spines. The “pears,” the fruit of the agave, are mashed and steamed, and the juice is extracted for its fairly meager sugar content. This juice, in turn, is the sugar source for tequila brewing.

The wide variety in tequila prices across brands, from year-to-year, and even within brands (between labels), is caused by many factors. Agave takes years to produce — most often 3-5 years before the pears are ready. Many cheaper tequilas use cane sugar in addition to agave to speed the process, but there are laws in Mexico and in the United States about what percentage of the final brewed product must come from “musto” (actual agave juice).

Now here comes the pay shot:

If you could grow blue agave, which takes several years and specialized knowledge to grow and harvest, or another crop which grows fast enough to be harvested twice in one year (at least in certain regions of agave country along the Mexico-US border), which would you choose? And you know what that other non-agave crop is? Bueller? Bueller?!

That’s right! It’s:

CORN

The mucho-musto premium tequilas shot up in price first, but now even the cheap silver tequilas are starting to go up in price. And this isn’t going to be just another down-year for Agave — it’s going to be permanent this time. You like your Margaritas? Buy up the ingredients now, kids. Cause once those agave farmers stop plying their trade, they won’t go back.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 5:54 PM

The one about whiney cattle farmers. And he did.

He is a she and she has some damn fine cows. I know, I have been thinking about buying one for my freezer. And yes they are going broke.. I don’t need to cry a river. You can go to the damn grocery store and buy that piece of meat, from a stock yard (if you don’t know, that is like a puppy mill0 and find that supposed “Ranchers Select” which it is not and pay whatever it is your little heart desires.

Honestly, I dont even know what you mean by whatever this statement is.

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 5:50 PM

OMG! You are and must be either an educated idiot or someone with little to no common sense. I assume both. Is that dumbed down enough for you? You tick off the LITTLE PEOPLE.. what happens? Come on… you should know the answer.

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:00 PM

can’t tell you how many snowmobilers have had their multiple $15,000.00 sleds need major engine repairs over the last couple of years.

maineconservative on November 30, 2010 at 5:52 PM

got any parts for an old bravo?

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:01 PM

All the back and forth on this. But we all need to keep our eyes on the prize.

GOV’T SUBSIDIES ARE BULL$#!T AND NEED TO STOP!

BierManVA on November 30, 2010 at 6:01 PM

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:00 PM

Rock on, sister, rock on.

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 6:03 PM

Which is what? That gov’t should subsidize ethanol even though there is no benefit to do so? Don’t claim to be a conservative and then live off the gov’t teat. You can’t be both.

Monkeytoe on November 30, 2010 at 5:37 PM

That cattle farmers are whiney.

Again, I have never argued for a subsidy of any kind… and if doing part of my business in the ethanol industry is “living off the govt teat” as you put it then so be it.

What does that make the cattle farmer then though? A full on welfare recipient? I mean, surely you know 60ish% of the corn we produce is fed to livestock whereas less than 6% of the corn goes to ethanol.

Who exactly then is living off the teat? The farmer that feeds his animal with heavily subsidized corn or me, a mechanical engineer who specializes in air moving who happens to have a portion of his business come from corn ethanol?

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 6:04 PM

All the back and forth on this. But we all need to keep our eyes on the prize.

GOV’T SUBSIDIES ARE BULL$#!T AND NEED TO STOP!

BierManVA on November 30, 2010 at 6:01 PM

I come from a state that is heavily invested in ethanol and other corn subsidies. It won’t be easy unless and until we can convince people that ethanol was never a good idea in the first place.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 6:05 PM

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 6:03 PM

overly educated or just plain stupid annoy me. you know this.

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:07 PM

blink on November 30, 2010 at 6:04 PM

Now you’re just being an ass, blink. Something on the order of 90+% of corn in America is now processed into something other than corn (corn syrup, non-food byproducts, Etc.). It is absolutely fair to say that all corn farmers benefit from subsidies, whatever that corn ends up getting used for!

Now what this has to do with the wisdom of those subsidies is beyond me, but I gave you the best answer I could. Good luck getting a better one.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 6:08 PM

Notcie what I said above. It’s a niche market.

You have to spend considerable effort, & sometimes $$, to change your operation to sell cattle this way.
Niche markets are nice. But lots of people still want to eat a grain fed steak.
The $$ is not that available everywhere in the premium for grass fed.

Badger40 on November 30, 2010 at 5:37 PM

I suspect as the inflationary impact of the present administrations fiscal policies starts to really bite at the grocery store, those niche markets requiring high dollar/unit expenditures will fall off to a large degree. That’s when the increased efficiency of high carb feeds in getting animals to market quickly will return to favor. Unless the land used for pasture is absolutely unfit for cultivation, it will return more as an investment when used for food grains than as grassland. An acre supporting a cow/calf unit compared to yields of 175 bushels of corn or 50 bushels of soybeans doesn’t pencil out well.

a capella on November 30, 2010 at 6:09 PM

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:00 PM

If there is a cattle rancher going broke, they are doing it wrong.

Save your self righteoues “little people” speel for someone who cares sweetheart. Your Missy cow farmer benefits from corn subsidies a whole hell of a lot more than I do.

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 6:09 PM

Silly me. I usually want a level of detail beyond ‘it has something to do with corn syrup but I have no idea how.’ Don’t pretend to know the answer if you don’t know the answer.

blink on November 30, 2010 at 6:04 PM

I gave you a better answer than that, you asshat. Government pushed the cost of corn syrup down artificially so that there is a majority of foods on the grocery store shelf that use it. How they pushed the price down is beyond my ken, but the government prefers it that way. You really are a jerk, you know that?

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 6:10 PM

you know this.

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:07 PM

What I love best about you.

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 6:10 PM

That cattle farmers are whiney.Who exactly then is living off the teat? The farmer that feeds his animal with heavily subsidized corn or me, a mechanical engineer who specializes in air moving who happens to have a portion of his business come from corn ethanol?

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 6:04 PM

it isn’t just cattle farmers you flaming moron! I resently just tried to buy a Farm. I couldn’t. Why because I made to much as a working STIFF as well to earn subsideies!

Who is in charge of that!?!?! Not I! It would have been a working class farm, in which I would have non aggressive inmates working for me for little wage (AKA I WOULD BE HELPING SOCIETY) as I also used the produce for my self, my family and 10 venders as well as the prison BUT I wasn’t allowed to buy the property.

Morons such as yourself are the reason why people like I, Badger and other wish you would be like the lemmings you are and jump somewhere and never return.

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:11 PM

So how does the government subsidize the corn that a farmer grows for his own animals? Surely, you’re not referring to simple income tax deductions . . . are you ?

blink on November 30, 2010 at 6:07 PM

Distiller’s grain, you moron. You need an explanation for that, too?

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 6:11 PM

If there is a cattle rancher going broke, they are doing it wrong.

Save your self righteoues “little people” speel for someone who cares sweetheart. Your Missy cow farmer benefits from corn subsidies a whole hell of a lot more than I do.

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 6:09 PM

Actually you don’t profit at all from them moron! Anyone who doesn’t use the subsidies.. the subs go away! Jesus, do you know anything concerning the governemt? HELLO!

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:12 PM

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 6:09 PM

Failure. Biggest loser.

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 6:12 PM

blink on November 30, 2010 at 6:07 PM

Set aside acres. Payment for growing nothing of value. Money is fungible.

a capella on November 30, 2010 at 6:13 PM

Set aside acres. Payment for growing nothing of value. Money is fungible.

a capella on November 30, 2010 at 6:13 PM

There’s also distiller’s grain. It’s far more profitable to sell your corn and purchase distiller’s grain rather than grow corn to feed to your cattle directly.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 6:14 PM

a capella on November 30, 2010 at 6:13 PM

Quit using logic.
/

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 6:15 PM

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:11 PM

I didnt want to quote your mass tale of failure but I did want to tell you that I know it isnt just cattle farmers, the point I was making is that cattle farmers, specifically, are very whiney.

Your pathetic for attacking me btw.

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 6:18 PM

Your You’re pathetic for attacking me btw.

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 6:18 PM

Did you learn nothing in the Ivory Tower?

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 6:20 PM

blink on November 30, 2010 at 6:22 PM

You seem to be another HA fool…

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 6:24 PM

I see that the good people of the Hot Air Nose-Bleed Seats have seen fit to keep this thing alive.

Good.

Here’s a thought:

Corn not being eaten is corn taken from food production.

Pretty simple.

Whether it’s cattle or people doing the eating.

Here’s another thought:

Price subsidies always distort markets, and damn near always bear more negative results than positive ones, (near as I can tell from here;>))

hillbillyjim on November 30, 2010 at 6:24 PM

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 6:20 PM

The second you go spell nazi on an internet forum you lose.

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 6:26 PM

Oh, that’s great. So when you go where it’s cold, your fuel doesn’t freeze — it gels. And you have to leave your glow plugs on for five minutes before you crank the noisy stinky engine anytime it’s less than 50 degrees out. Hypotheticals all, but ya know…
;-)
gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 5:10

It ain’t that cold were I live, and I go to and from garages. Plus its a “clean diesel” so there’s no cloud of soot following me down the highway. Although when I blast by one of those Obamobile-Priuses I wish I did.

Iblis on November 30, 2010 at 6:26 PM

Besides, if y’all go and burn all of the damn corn in yore durn cars, where the hell am I gonna get my grits?

Huh? Answer me that!

hillbillyjim on November 30, 2010 at 6:27 PM

You seem to be another HA fool…

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 6:24 PM

Looks like somebody went and pulled the cork out of the Dumb-Ass Bottle. I hate when that happens!

hillbillyjim on November 30, 2010 at 6:29 PM

Please let it be so. Please, please.

The ripple effect from ethanol subsidies drives almost all food prices up and gas mileage down. My old jeep got about 4 miles/gallon better gas mileage when it was 100% gas.

DuctTapeMyBrain on November 30, 2010 at 6:29 PM

hillbillyjim on November 30, 2010 at 6:27 PM

I like my grits with cheese, bacon and butter. None of that syrupy sweet shiite Mama liked.

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 6:29 PM

I didnt want to quote your mass tale of failure but I did want to tell you that I know it isnt just cattle farmers, the point I was making is that cattle farmers, specifically, are very whiney.

Your pathetic for attacking me btw.

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 6:18 PM

you are such a pig. But hey, you know what they say about those. Bacon is great BTW!

It ain’t that cold were I live, and I go to and from garages. Plus its a “clean diesel” so there’s no cloud of soot following me down the highway. Although when I blast by one of those Obamobile-Priuses I wish I did.

Iblis on November 30, 2010 at 6:26 PM

LMFAO!!! You obviously do not have a newer diesel!!! WTF is “clean diesel”? LMFAO!

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:31 PM

I like my grits with cheese, bacon and butter. None of that syrupy sweet shiite Mama liked.

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 6:29 PM

you forgot the egg… sunny side up!

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:32 PM

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:32 PM

That too darlin’ but two of ‘em.

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 6:34 PM

I like my grits with cheese, bacon and butter. None of that syrupy sweet shiite Mama liked.

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 6:29 PM

you forgot the egg… sunny side up!

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:32 PM

Nothing will do it for me but country ham, red-eye gravy, grits, and of course, eggs, plural, sunny-side-up! (A side of bacon or two never hurts.)

hillbillyjim on November 30, 2010 at 6:35 PM

These trolls remind me of cockroaches.

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 6:35 PM

LMFAO!!! You obviously do not have a newer diesel!!! WTF is “clean diesel”? LMFAO!

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:31 PM

There are actually a couple of competing technologies that drastically reduce diesel emissions. If he’s purchased within the last year-and-a-half or so, that might be what he’s talking about.

One of the competing technologies recirculates the exhaust in such a manner as to clean it up, but drastically reduces mileage. The other doesn’t reduce mileage, but requires you to purchase a special “solution” for a separate tank, one gallon to every 25 gallons of fuel, and costing about the same per gallon as the fuel itself.

And these technologies, one or the other, are mandated in all new farm machinery sold as of next year.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 6:35 PM

Oh, I almost forgot.

As long as it’s corn-fed, and anti-free-range, … just because.

hillbillyjim on November 30, 2010 at 6:38 PM

Why? Because I asked a question which nobody has answered reasonably to my own personal satisfaction?

blink on November 30, 2010 at 6:25 PM

Since you seem to have a few prejudices of your own, you probably won’t be satisfied with any answer anyone could give you.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 6:38 PM

blink on November 30, 2010 at 6:25 PM

By the way, Douchebag, you never did address my pointing out the use of distillers grain for cattle feed as a way to subsidize ranchers who “grow their own corn.” In this day and age, only a bloody idiot would grow corn and feed it to their cattle instead of selling it.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 6:40 PM

Whoops…probably should have put a

/hyperbole

tag on my last post. whole-grain corn still is fed to cattle, but most ranchers in my homestate purchase it from feed mills — even if they do grow their own corn. Looks better on the books that way.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 6:41 PM

And these technologies, one or the other, are mandated in all new farm machinery sold as of next year.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 6:35 PM

which will be incorporated into everything else. And all it does is screw up the engine.

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:42 PM

which will be incorporated into everything else. And all it does is screw up the engine.

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:42 PM

The one with the urea solution is worse. If you forget to fill the solution up with your gas when you fuel up, and go until you run out, you damage the engine as you run it.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 6:43 PM

The one with the urea solution is worse. If you forget to fill the solution up with your gas when you fuel up, and go until you run out, you damage the engine as you run it.

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 6:43 PM

which will mean it is more like a 2 stroke vehicle. Have to add oil to the gas or BOOM!

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:44 PM

you are such a pig. But hey, you know what they say about those. Bacon is great BTW!
upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:31 PM

I could tell I was turnin you on a little… ;)

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 6:45 PM

I could tell I was turnin you on a little… ;)

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 6:45 PM

*facepalm*

I am not sure if I am suppose to be disgusted or annoyed.

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:46 PM

which will mean it is more like a 2 stroke vehicle. Have to add oil to the gas or BOOM!

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:44 PM

Only two-stroke engines I’ve used were little ones, on lawn mowers and such. Not BOOM, but more like *cough cough wheeze SEIZE*

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 6:46 PM

Only two-stroke engines I’ve used were little ones, on lawn mowers and such. Not BOOM, but more like *cough cough wheeze SEIZE*

gryphon202 on November 30, 2010 at 6:46 PM

2 stroke motor cycles, and snowmachines don’t make that noise. I can’t describe it but it isn’t pleasant to listen too.

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:49 PM

I am not sure if I am suppose to be disgusted or annoyed.

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:46 PM

Disgusted yes, annoyed no.

You cant let the internet get to you like that. Its the reason you are so bitter.

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 6:49 PM

Allahpundit:

Smack! Ouch.

Here I was posting all of these Atheist vs. Christian posts for hits, and all along it was ETHANOL!

Who knew?

Can’t a SkyGod-Denier get a break?

hillbillyjim on November 30, 2010 at 6:50 PM

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 6:49 PM

You are an asshole of the first order

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 6:52 PM

“Distiller’s grain” isn’t a logical answer to someone asking what subsidy a farmer gets for growing corn to feed his own animals.
blink on November 30, 2010 at 6:48 PM

It depends on the farm. Most farmers don’t or won’t grow grain or corn because it is a PITA, and takes a lot of water. Others do it, not to subsidize themselves via the government, but to have their free roaming animals have something and it doesn’t cost them a whole lot.

No farmer I know gets a sub for growing for their cash herd. It is just land, time and money savings for them. Kind of like how many farmers will grow hay for their animals. It is what they think best.

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:53 PM

My question is what government subsidy someone receives for growing their own corn to feed to their own animals.

blink on November 30, 2010 at 6:51 PM

The answer, of course, would depend on who they know.

hillbillyjim on November 30, 2010 at 6:53 PM

You cant let the internet get to you like that. Its the reason you are so bitter.

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 6:49 PM

I am bitter about not getting that farm. I am not bitter with you or the internet. I am also annoyed when people don’t understand WTF youhave to do to buy and stand a farm. It is very expensive. Even though I had venders lined up, a state Prison willing to work with me I could not get a loan from either a bank nor the freaking Federal Gov to buy a 20 acre farm. Heck the Farmer dropped the price to below what it was worth…. and still nothing. But at least I got the farmer some cash via the venders and the State Prison workers and such. Lemons = lemonaide.

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:56 PM

red-eye gravy,

hillbillyjim on November 30, 2010 at 6:35 PM

Do you make yours with coffee or just water? Also you DID purge those possums for a week or so before you et um din’tchoo?

Oldnuke on November 30, 2010 at 6:59 PM

My question is what government subsidy someone receives for growing their own corn to feed to their own animals.

blink on November 30, 2010 at 6:51 PM

None that I am aware of. I know a ton of farmers, some who do this, but none that are part of the ethanol industry (or big beef/pork/chicken).

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 7:00 PM

Also you DID purge those possums for a week or so before you et um din’tchoo?

Oldnuke on November 30, 2010 at 6:59 PM

Ohhh, like carp?

OmahaConservative on November 30, 2010 at 7:00 PM

Do you make yours with coffee or just water?

Both, in an ooooooooooooold iron skillet.

Also you DID purge those possums for a week or so before you et um din’tchoo?

Oldnuke on November 30, 2010 at 6:59 PM

I really don’t do ‘possum, but I wanted to make Granny Clampett proud. :>)

hillbillyjim on November 30, 2010 at 7:01 PM

I am bitter about not getting that farm. I am not bitter with you or the internet. I am also annoyed when people don’t understand WTF youhave to do to buy and stand a farm. It is very expensive. Even though I had venders lined up, a state Prison willing to work with me I could not get a loan from either a bank nor the freaking Federal Gov to buy a 20 acre farm. Heck the Farmer dropped the price to below what it was worth…. and still nothing. But at least I got the farmer some cash via the venders and the State Prison workers and such. Lemons = lemonaide.

upinak on November 30, 2010 at 6:56 PM

Its a sad story, I apologize for cracking on you about it a few posts ago.

For the record though, I am not for this subsidy, I just dont see anything wrong with growing fuel.

xRos on November 30, 2010 at 7:05 PM

Comment pages: 1 2 3 4 5