Double Standards and the TSA Screeds

posted at 9:30 am on November 24, 2010 by Jazz Shaw

Thanksgiving Eve is upon us once again. Or, as some obstreperous individuals would have it, National Opt-Out Day. And as millions of Americans prepare to take to the skies and go grab a slice of granny’s pumpkin pie my thoughts are reluctantly forced back to those pesky travel security questions.

Ever since the warm reception and critical acclaim of my column regarding TSA screening procedures, “Do You Have a Right to Fly?” I’ve been deluged with information and opinions. This has given me time to consider the questions I posed there and at least work a bit closer to some answers. One of the chief indicators for me has been the rather shocking unanimity of responses from across the spectrum. When I see a blogger this liberal and another one this conservative seeming to be in agreement it sets my spider senses to tingling.

It’s pretty much the same as my reaction when I see a large group of Democrats and Republicans in Congress all voting the same way on some hastily drawn up measure. My first response is to reach for my back pocket and make sure I still have my wallet.

But once again I will note that all of this outrage on both sides of the aisle seems to be coming from the blogging, tweeting, chattering classes. The latest poll numbers still show a majority are willing to put up with the nudie pictures in the interest of not having their plane explode, while it’s nearly a fifty – fifty split on the more “hands on” approach.

No matter how many people tell me I must be mistaken, I haven’t been able to shake the feeling that there was something wrong with all of this uproar over the TSA screening story. It was only this week when I found somebody who did a fairly good job of putting a voice to many of the aspects of it which bothered me. Sadly, that person turned out to be Kevin Drum – a fact which may actually be more alarming than the story itself.

I am so going to regret writing this post. For those of you who used to respect me, please just chalk it up to food poisoning or early onset Alzheimer’s or whatever. But here goes.

I hate the TSA screening process. Everyone hates the TSA screening process. You’d be crazy not to. It’s intrusive, annoying, and time-wasting. It treats us all like common criminals even though most of us are just ordinary schlubs trying to get on a plane and go somewhere.

But guess what? The fact that you personally are annoyed — you! an educated white-collar professional! — doesn’t mean that the process is idiotic. I’ve heard it called “security theater” so many times I’d be rich if I had a nickel for each time it popped up in my browser, but although the anti-TSA rants are often cathartic and amusing, they’ve never made much sense to me.

Kevin goes on to lay out a lengthy Q&A of questions about the TSA procedures and answers as to why they do what they do. I don’t agree with all of them, and some of his deeper “analysis” veers back off into the land of ascribing anything Republicans want to the fact that they are evil Republicans, but many of the basic points he covers ring true to me. Let’s go over a few of the the complaints and why they are mostly falling on deaf ears in my case.

Complaint Number One: This is an unconstitutional invasion of our privacy in our persons and papers without reasonable cause for suspicion.

Guess what? The moment they started putting metal detectors into airports and asking you to empty your pockets to see if that hunk of metal was a gun they were doing the exact same thing. There’s no basis to reasonably assume that a normal, law abiding citizen with a hunk of metal on them is carrying a gun, so demanding they show the screener what they have is the same violation. You’ve been having those “rights” violated for years without complaint, particularly after 9/11. You’ve just decided now that the nudie picture scanner and the groping of your “junk” is a bridge too far and are falling back on an argument you should have been making in the seventies. If you wish to continue making that argument, fine. But to be taken seriously you need to be arguing to have all metal detectors and other apparatus removed from the airport and just let everyone fly “as is” unless there is real and supportable cause for reasonable suspicion. (And by that I do not mean simply the fact that the man is wearing a turban.)

Further, I’ll include this observation from Mr. Drum.

Think again: if a plane comes down, you can just kiss your civil liberties goodbye. Today’s TSA procedures will seem positively genial compared to what takes their place with the full and eager support of the American public. Given that reality, if you’re really worried about civil liberties you should welcome nearly anything legal that protects air travel from explosives, even the things that are really annoying and only modestly useful.

Complaint Number Two: None of these new procedures would have caught the underwear bomber, the shoe bomber, or many other types of attempts.

First of all, that’s not entirely true. Taking off the shoe bomber’s shoes would have done it. And while the back scatter imaging probably wouldn’t have caught the underwear bomber, the “groping your junk” check might have done it. At least the odds would have been improved. But in general, I’ll turn back to something else that Kevin wrote in his post.

But honestly, most of what they do is pretty easy to understand: they’re trying to make it so hard to get weapons and explosives on board airplanes that no one bothers trying — and the few who do can’t pack a big enough punch to do any damage. For the most part, it seems to be working. The price we pay for this is plenty of annoyance, but again: do you really want to get rid of the annoyance and bet your life that terrorists will never figure out how to make a better shoe/underwear/liquid bomb? I’m not so sure I do.

If the security measures are that ridiculously invasive, it may turn back some would-be bombers. I’ll leave it to you to decide if that’s a desirable goal or not.

Complaint Number Three: Why can’t we just institute profiling or adopt measure such as are used in Israel? They don’t seem to have any problems.

These are the ones that really stick in my craw, and I’m sure my answer will stick in yours as well. The reason we don’t do that is simple. We Don’t Do That. We’re not China. We’re not Russia. We have a different set of rules here. Again, as much as it sounds like reciting some sort of liberal, insulting characterization of conservatives, I’ll point out the fact that it’s very easy to push for profiling the people who “look like they might be terrorists” if you’re a white guy / woman in a business suit who speaks English as their first language. (Well, speaks “American” more so than English.) But we have lots of citizens in this country who don’t fit that “safe” profile but are just as much citizens as you and have all the same rights and privileges. I’ll ask you how American it is for you to say it’s fine and dandy for them to be inconvenienced and held up as long as you can scoot along more quickly? Or, as the question was succinctly posed on Twitter this week, is there an inverse relationship between your willingness to support profiling and the likelihood that you will be profiled?

And as to the Israel defense, which comes up all too often, I’ll refer you back to Kevin Drum for a moment.

Q: The Israelis don’t do all this stuff either. Why not adopt their methods?
A: Because even experts don’t think we could scale up the Israeli system for use in the United States. What’s more, the Israeli system is only convenient for Israeli Jews. It’s a huge pain in the ass for everyone else.

Let me expand on that. I earlier referred you to my friend Jeff’s blog, Yid With Lid, where he made just such an argument. He told the story of the wonderful security measures he encountered on his family’s last trip to Israel and how, upon finding out that he was a Jew and could answer some basic questions about his Bar Mitzvah he got through quickly. He described how other non-Jewish but obviously non-Arab and non-Muslim tourists “tend to be questioned a bit more thoroughly, and may be grilled over the purpose of their visit and about their accommodation” and how the process for Arabs and Muslims “can often be lengthy and irritating, ending with a full body and baggage search.”

Is that what you want in America? How about if – as a “Christian Nation” as many conservatives describe the USA – we started rating how long it took you to get through security based on how well you knew the New Testament? How about if we held the Jews up for “considerably longer” and stripped down just the Muslim faith American citizens? Are you really comfortable with that? If so, you probably shouldn’t have been quoting the constitution in your arguments as per complaint number one above. Israelis enjoy fewer rights in terms of some of the freedoms we take for granted in America, particularly if the individual in question is not Jewish. That is, perhaps, a natural result of living in a constant state of warfare in an area full of terrorists who want to wipe your country off the face of the earth and it’s for them to decide how to handle it. But is that what you want here in America? Just as I pointed out before that we are not China or Russia, we’re not Israel either. It’s not the same.

Complaint Number Four: You’re “fighting the last war.” If you’re checking shoes, panties and brassieres, the terrorists are just going to hide the bombs someplace else.

The biggest problem with the “fighting the last war” argument is that the last war isn’t over. I find it frankly stunning that people make the argument above regarding the terrorists’ ability to see what’s not going to work and try something else. Why? Because the inverse is so clearly obvious. If you’re not checking these things, then the terrorists can all the more easily spot what will work and continue to put bombs in shoes and underwear.

Complaint Number Five: It’s wrong to go taking naked pictures of me or feeling up my privates or those of my spouse and children just to get on a plane.

You’re right. And I have no answer on that one. Like I said earlier, I never claimed to have all the answers. I think it’s awful and I don’t want to see that done to people either. I also don’t want my plane to blow up on the way to visit my uncle. It’s a completely valid complaint and I have no clue what to do about that. Sorry.

What I do know is that a lot of the rationales given for these complaints ring hollow for me, particularly the one ones listed above coming from many of my conservative friends. These are exactly the same people who will be first on line to excoriate the Obama administration the next time a plane does come down out of the sky in a flaming ball of wreckage. I assure you that many of our friends who write on this subject already have a template in place and it starts, “While there were zero successful attacks on our soil during the Bush years…”

Should we have done a better intelligence job before the bomber reaches the gate? Again, yes. A thousand times yes. But that doesn’t mean that we simply give up if they make it as far as the check-in counter at Jet Blue.

This is still a very tough question to wrestle to the ground, but I’m not buying the hype around it. It’s simply not as clear cut as many of our opinion shapers would wish it to be.

Now you can scream at Jazz for being a stupid, wrong-headed RINO even faster than just leaving comments by following him on Twitter! @JazzShaw

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You realize that you’ve just touched the third rail — a national ID card. That’s an interesting question to all these people who object to how the TSA is doing things — if all you had to do was to be fingerprinted, have a DNA sample taken, get a retina scan, and then be face-measured, and have all that bio-metric stuff put into a database for easy access by TSA, would that be preferable?

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 12:53 PM

Yes, I did go there, Uncle. Providing verification of my identity when I fly is not nearly as intrusive as being groped and/or irradiated. The TSA (and by extension, the gubmint) already has access to passenger manifests, so it’s not like I’d be gaining anything in the realm of “anonymity” by refusing to provide proof of identity when I enter an airport (and if I do refuse to prove who I am, then by all means, treat me as suspect and proceed to grope and irradiate me).

Please explain to me why this proof of ID concept would be a slippery slope in terms of liberty and freedom when compared to what the TSA is already doing! Do you have a problem with photo id cards too? How about a passport?

swanzoid on November 24, 2010 at 1:52 PM

FloatingRock on November 24, 2010 at 1:36 PM

You don’t get out very often, obviously.

Roy Rogers on November 24, 2010 at 1:54 PM

If you Choose “A” then you’ve stated you’re willing to accept increased risk to prevent the groping of a child. Are you also willing to endorse the TSA groping of a child for slightly increased safety for you? Why make both sides of that trade-off?

gekkobear on November 24, 2010 at 1:36 PM

Red herring. “groping” is a charged word — for it implies that the person touching is deriving sexual gratification. I would agree fully if the TSA people are groping, but if they are trying to find explosives sown into or otherwise attached to clothing, that’s a different story.

If touching a child is bad, then touching an adult is equally bad. But since the terrorists have shown an ability to use even young children as suicide bombers (the youngest are too young to even know they are about to die), a bit of gravity is in order.

The terrorists are trying to prevent us from flying, and if I have to be “groped” in order to fly, there it is.

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 1:57 PM

but Uncle, the small children that muslim terrorists have used aren’t blond tow-heads.

jerryofva on November 24, 2010 at 2:08 PM

Complaint Number Five: It’s wrong to go taking naked pictures of me or feeling up my privates or those of my spouse and children just to get on a plane.

Hey Jazz…

… What would you say if they were doing this to those at Club Gitmo?

Seven Percent Solution on November 24, 2010 at 2:11 PM

Please explain to me why this proof of ID concept would be a slippery slope in terms of liberty and freedom when compared to what the TSA is already doing! Do you have a problem with photo id cards too? How about a passport?

swanzoid on November 24, 2010 at 1:52 PM

I have absolutely no problem with this, but I’m betting a bunch of my libertarian peers do have a problem — which is why such a system has never been implemented. For it to work, every American has to be in the system, and I can already hear the comparisons to Indiana Jones’ “no papers!” skit now.

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 2:12 PM

but Uncle, the small children that muslim terrorists have used aren’t blond tow-heads.

jerryofva on November 24, 2010 at 2:08 PM

They can find some blonde tow-heads pretty quickly, I suspect, if they figure out we aren’t going to inspect them.

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 2:13 PM

They can find some blonde tow-heads pretty quickly, I suspect, if they figure out we aren’t going to inspect them.

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 2:13 PM

The next time will be the first time.

Chazz on November 24, 2010 at 2:18 PM

Tuesday (11/23) I went through screening in Bangkok. Quickly, no fuss, no muss. The plane landed in Seoul, we remained in the secure area and went through another screening, but not overly intrusive. Took off and landed in Atlanta (still 23rd) remaining in a secure area and went through the TSA screening. Now I’ve done this trip many times before and always dread the Atlanta debacle. First, the evidence of affirmative action hiring is clear. Last year I walked through the ordinary screen machine and it buzzed. An angry looking black man barked, “why did you make my alarm go off?” I, unfortunately said, probably the metal plate in my head. He used the wand and found something innocuous and waved me through.
This trip however, there was no line, a few TSA stand around bantering, and the super body scanner was blocked off. I was through in less than 3 minutes. I think people are cutting back and TSA is laying back too. Now that idiot Pistole, head of TSA, refuses to acknowledge his agency is avoiding talking anything about Muslims. I’ve seen him dance around questions on several TV interviews when asked about avoiding profiling, he immediately flees to Tim McVey or Eric Rudolph singling them out as the biggest security threats that need profiling and standing on his head trying not to mention Muslims. He and Eric Holder must have lunch together every day seeking ways to avoid facing reality. The ba*&ards democrat libs will kill us Americans and they are traitors.

wepeople on November 24, 2010 at 2:19 PM

Uncle:

What are they going to do kidnap them?

or what a great pickup line for some swedish babe: Heah honey, want to get rid of that kid?

Even your average TSA screener could identify a stolen kid. They tend to act in strange ways.

jerryofva on November 24, 2010 at 2:21 PM

All the terrorists will soon have platinum blond dye jobs and will slip though undetected.

Chazz on November 24, 2010 at 2:23 PM

I have absolutely no problem with this [national ID, preferably based in biometrics], but I’m betting a bunch of my libertarian peers do have a problem — which is why such a system has never been implemented. For it to work, every American has to be in the system, and I can already hear the comparisons to Indiana Jones’ “no papers!” skit now.

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 2:12 PM

I consider myself to have a pretty strong libertarian bent, yet I have zero problem with some form of reliable ID system to prove who I am. The gubmint knows when you come and go by scanning your passport anyway, no different than scanning your eyeball (only nobody else can forge your eyeball, except in 007 movies).

So could someone who has a problem with a reliable national ID system please pipe in so I can understand the objections? To me this would address a big part of this TSA overreach. In fact, I would argue it would make us far safer.

swanzoid on November 24, 2010 at 2:24 PM

logis on November 24, 2010 at 12:14 PM

What Esthier said.

kingsjester on November 24, 2010 at 12:27 PM

Um, do you realize that what Esthier said is that you don’t know what the word “is” means?

logis on November 24, 2010 at 2:27 PM

logis on November 24, 2010 at 2:27 PM

All I said was that Michelle Malkin ran an excellent blog. Is there something wrong with that?

kingsjester on November 24, 2010 at 2:31 PM

Those plush, pig skin airplane seats are sounding better, and better.

Roy Rogers on November 24, 2010 at 2:32 PM

Uncle:

What are they going to do kidnap them?

jerryofva on November 24, 2010 at 2:21 PM

They don’t need to. Check out pictures of Turkish citizens, for example.

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 2:36 PM

All the terrorists will soon have platinum blond dye jobs and will slip though undetected.
Chazz on November 24, 2010 at 2:23 PM

Based on TSA’s current level of competence, your mind-blowingly idiotic plan could actually work just as well as any other.

But even the incredibly bizarre type of profiling you’ve suggested would still yield two benefits: a few million innocent people wouldn’t be accosted. And the terrorists will lose 2% fewer operatives, but be out the cost of the dye – that’s a net loss to them.

logis on November 24, 2010 at 2:38 PM

Uncle:

Two percent of the population are blonds. I would think that there are even fewer tow head turks despite your ability to produce a picture one one or two who are probably of mixed descent.

Once again I would bet that even a TSA screener could learn to differentiate between a Turkish blond kid and a Swedish one.

If you are worried about explosives use a dog. It’s 100% effective and it’s passive. The dogs do the profiling. For the price of one x-ray scanner you could buy 60-100 fully trained sniffer dogs. You do the math.
You do t

jerryofva on November 24, 2010 at 2:49 PM

All I said was that Michelle Malkin ran an excellent blog. Is there something wrong with that?
kingsjester on November 24, 2010 at 2:31 PM

As I pointed out, that is not what you said earlier. Otherwise, no, there is nothing wrong with your amended version.

logis on November 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM

I consider myself to have a pretty strong libertarian bent, yet I have zero problem with some form of reliable ID system to prove who I am. ….

swanzoid on November 24, 2010 at 2:24 PM

There is a subtle benefit as a result of a reliable ID system. That same system can be used when CITIZENS go to the poll to cast their vote. I guess that wouldn’t work well for the dems though.

belad on November 24, 2010 at 2:56 PM

Is there something about possessing a Federal ID card that makes suicide bombers reluctant to make the kill?

If not, then how is an ID card going to stop someone from bringing a bomb on board an airplane?

You are still stuck with screening AND federal tracking of movement on top of that.

Peri Winkle on November 24, 2010 at 3:00 PM

The notion that following an El-Al style security model would make us on par with China is almost as ridiculous as the suggestion that DADT puts us on the same level as Iran.

Can’t profile (even in something as minor as a lesser degree of suspicion of American citizens) because WE DON’T DO THAT, yet the crony capitalism of the scanner CEO flying with Obama to India and the obscene abuses of power by TSA agents is hunky dory.

I miss MM.

RachDubya on November 24, 2010 at 3:10 PM

logis on November 24, 2010 at 2:55 PM

Michelle Malkin still runs her own blog, and is responsible for the work of Doug Powers on her blog. That is why she is still making quality editing decisions.

kingsjester on November 24, 2010 at 3:10 PM

I miss MM.

RachDubya on November 24, 2010 at 3:10 PM

Me too, doll. Happy Thanksgiving!

kingsjester on November 24, 2010 at 3:11 PM

It’s somewhat easier to escape the extra measures at DIA. There is only one body scanner and if you get in a line that has someone of the opposite sex doing the pat downs, you’ll skip those too.

Here’s a slideshow from 9News that shows the intimate nature of the pat downs:

Slideshow

Isn’t it interesting that almost all of the victims are older, middle-class white people? I can tell at a glance that they aren’t terrorists anymore than my parents are.

Common Sense on November 24, 2010 at 3:12 PM

One more comment, in the 9th photo of the slideshow, you can see the screen for the body scanner. This will show you, the TSA agent, and anyone nearby your naked picture.

So much for the anonymous “guy” in the “back room”.

Common Sense on November 24, 2010 at 3:13 PM

I have absolutely no problem with this, but I’m betting a bunch of my libertarian peers do have a problem — which is why such a system has never been implemented. For it to work, every American has to be in the system, and I can already hear the comparisons to Indiana Jones’ “no papers!” skit now.

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 2:12 PM

I consider myself to have a pretty strong libertarian bent, yet I have zero problem with some form of reliable ID system to prove who I am.

swanzoid on November 24, 2010 at 2:24 PM

It has never been implemented because it is incredibly difficult to 1) implement, 2) maintain and 3) prevent abuse.

Number three is the most difficult aspect. This is where you run into the ‘who audits the auditor’ problem.

Also, given the government track record in all of their programs, I am sure it would be a success. No?

Yeah, more ‘security’ makes us more secure. Works all the time.

AZ_Redneck on November 24, 2010 at 3:19 PM

Nice strawman, Jazz, but Israeli Arabs actually have very little trouble getting through security at Ben Gurion.

Good Solid B-Plus on November 24, 2010 at 3:19 PM

Isn’t it interesting that almost all of the victims are older, middle-class white people? I can tell at a glance that they aren’t terrorists anymore than my parents are.

Common Sense on November 24, 2010 at 3:12 PM

They have been “profiled” as the type least likely to lodge a formal CAIR endorsed complaint to President Hussein.

Anyone remember how the “Flying Imams” gamed the system?

Roy Rogers on November 24, 2010 at 3:20 PM

Zogby: 61% oppose new security measures, 48% changing travel plans.

Yeah, 61% of the population are bloggers, right?

ajacksonian on November 24, 2010 at 3:28 PM

This article’s failure is that a FALSE CHOICE permeates the author’s entire piece!!

The choice is NOT a choice between “safety” and “gate rape”.

There are proven, effective measures to assure safety WITHOUT “gate rape”, and there is NO EVIDENCE that “gate rape” is effective in doing anything but treading upon our most basic rights and treating citizens like cattle.

The author also fails to mention one of the more recent aspects of this scandal: the circulation of “nude xray” pics by government personnel, and articles demonstrating easy ways to turn these “nude xray” pics into full-color nude pics with recognizable faces!!! This situation opens up the possibility of massive blackmail and abuse of the public by government!!!

The “false choice” is simply an argumentative technique used to avoid a discussion of the real issue. We are NOT made safer by the government which comes up with an insanely intrusive scheme…even if the scheme is labeled “safety”: A “safety” label does NOT make you “safe”. We would not be less violated even if the government labeled these procedures “non-violating”!!

And as long as we are not protecting our flanks (open Mexican and Canadian borders), there can be no pretense that we are serious about stopping terrorism.

landlines on November 24, 2010 at 3:30 PM

Isn’t it interesting that almost all of the victims are older, middle-class white people? I can tell at a glance that they aren’t terrorists anymore than my parents are.

Common Sense on November 24, 2010 at 3:12 PM

Funny you mention that, one of my coworkers says that the Pron scan and blue gloved rub-downs are political payback for the election and the TEA partys. At first I thought he was just bieng funny, now though…

PoliTech on November 24, 2010 at 3:35 PM

swanzoid on November 24, 2010 at 2:24 PM

It won’t be me. I think such a system would prevent illegal aliens from offering false identification a ‘la Meg Whitman’s maid, and would allow quick access to our travel records (I think a citizen frequent flyer is not as apt to be a terrorist — because they’ve had plenty of previous trips to be one on, so the probability is lower).

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 3:36 PM

landlines on November 24, 2010 at 3:30 PM

As I’ve pointed out above, El-Al, indisputably the most security conscious airline in the world, does “gate rape” as you put it.

Furthermore, the problems of “nude x-rays” can be fixed via technology the Government already has a patent on — a method of distorting the pictures so that distinguishing humanizing “curves” are removed but the ability to detect contraband remains intact. The technology apparently can be retrofitted to the software in existing scanners, so we’ll see how that goes.

And two wrongs do not make a right, in terms of border protection. But airflight is not a matter of border protection — it’s a matter of passenger safety whilst pitting us against a foe who doesn’t want us flying at all.

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 3:41 PM

The people who argue against profiling seem to be missing one salient fact: the profiles in question were not chosen because of someone’s bigotry or personal likes or dislikes. They were chosen because someone fitting those profiles has committed a crime, or because there is evidence that someone fitting the profile is going to commit a crime. In other words, the profile was created by the criminal; it was only recognized by the law enforcement people.

If you have a problem with the profile you have the right to expect that it matches the criminals, but if it does match them your argument is with the criminal, not with the people trying to stop him.

I realized that the word “criminal” in this case should read “war criminal”, but the same principle applies.

njcommuter on November 24, 2010 at 3:44 PM

What a convoluted load of crap. So you’ve bee receiving a lot of info Jazz? You just wrote a proof of GIGO.

I wasted several valuable minutes of my life that I will never get back before I gave up trying to make sense of the nonsensical.

Henceforth when I see this byline I will do what I do when Allah links MoDo, Frank Rich, Krugman, etc., ad nauseum, just to push peoples’ buttons. That is, I will ignore it and move on.

novaculus on November 24, 2010 at 3:54 PM

Uncle:

No, the Israelis don’t do random gate rape. They do it when someone meets the profile not every tenth person.

I know it doesn’t fit your prejudices being a known Jew hater and all that but many non-Israeli Arabs are quite happy to fly El Al. They do it because it’s safe air transport in an unsafe world.

So what about the dogs? I have a lot expertise in handling coonhounds. My little red tick girl can smell a fox in the back yard while she is asleep upstairs in bed. Outside of border collies and Australian shepherds you will find no more intelligent dog then a coonhound. Trained to sniff explosives they would detect the anyone who handled them 100 yards away. No need to x-ray and grope the general population of air travelers.

jerryofva on November 24, 2010 at 3:57 PM

This article’s failure is that a FALSE CHOICE permeates the author’s entire piece!! The choice is NOT a choice between “safety” and “gate rape”.
landlines on November 24, 2010 at 3:30 PM

Economic collectivism was discredited well over a hundred years ago. If there is to be a history, then liberalism will go down in it defined as: “the systematic refudiation of common sense for the purpose of self-aggrandizement.”

To the subjective (i.e. liberal) mind, the concept of “safety” does not exist – because the mathematics necessary to comprehend it are not purely emotional.

The only question that matters to the subjective mind is: “How does this make me FEEL?”

Basically, the more obstructive and invasive a procedure is, the more it feels like something is being done. That provides all the security any liberal will ever need.

And, as long as said procedures are applied as haphazardly as possible, even after the attack occurs it will always be OK – because no individual can ever be pointed out as having made a mistake.

logis on November 24, 2010 at 4:05 PM

upon finding out that he was a Jew and could answer some basic questions about his Bar Mitzvah he got through quickly. He described how other non-Jewish but obviously non-Arab and non-Muslim tourists “tend to be questioned a bit more thoroughly, and may be grilled over the purpose of their visit and about their accommodation”

I went to Israel. It was not after 9/11, but it was just after the first Interfada, and while I was asked where I was staying, it was not an intrusive interrogation

Israelis enjoy fewer rights in terms of some of the freedoms we take for granted in America, particularly if the individual in question is not Jewish.

Muslims in Israel enjoy more rights than in any other country in the Middle East, and Christians and Jews (other “People of the Book”) have far fewer rights in those Muslim countries

donsingleton on November 24, 2010 at 4:06 PM

Jazz is espousing the typical liberal clap trap: it is more important to have have some incremental level of personal safety than it is to give up your personal liberties. These are the dangers of incrementalism. Bloggers like Jazz argue that the intrusive searches are only a bit worse than what we were doing and giving up a bit more of our liberties is well worth whatever level of additional safety is gained. He will make the same argument the next time the level of personal intrusion is implemented and, hey, since they are doing it at the airports, it is really no big deal to do it on buses, passenger ferries, etc. and so it goes. Where do you draw the line? Do you draw the line EVER if the next step is only a bit worse than the last step? If we listen to jazz, the answer would be ‘no’ It’s all good because we are “safe.”

tballard on November 24, 2010 at 4:12 PM

As of mid afternoon today all of the reports I can see regarding airport lines are talking about how “smoothly” security is going today. I think that the airlines have a much bigger problem than they want to talk about. The lines seem to me to be smaller than last year by far, and last year there were no folks “opting out” at all.

Sell your airline stock.

PoliTech on November 24, 2010 at 4:14 PM

jerryofva on November 24, 2010 at 2:49 PM

If you know the history of the Mediterranean, then you also know that there are a lot of really good Muslims whose ancestors were once the most devout of Christians, and that many of these people are as fair as fair can be. I call your attention to The Sack of Baltimore as an example. Notice that, in the Sack, we have a Christian turned Muslim at the center. If you remember the kidnapping of Madeleine McCann, they discovered a “look-alike” Muslim child in Morocco.

The slavers who struck Baltimore were from Morocco.

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 4:23 PM

Red herring. “groping” is a charged word — for it implies that the person touching is deriving sexual gratification. I would agree fully if the TSA people are groping, but if they are trying to find explosives sown into or otherwise attached to clothing, that’s a different story.

If touching a child is bad, then touching an adult is equally bad. But since the terrorists have shown an ability to use even young children as suicide bombers (the youngest are too young to even know they are about to die), a bit of gravity is in order.

The terrorists are trying to prevent us from flying, and if I have to be “groped” in order to fly, there it is.

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 1:57 PM

Touching an adult and touching a child are different, at least in my eyes. I’m surprised you’d claim they’re equivalent.

Kids are different in both my eyes and in the eyes of the law. Think I’m wrong? Go have consensual sex with a 14 year old and a 30 year old; which one gets you thrown in jail?

You’re willing to have children’s genitals touched for “safety”.

And let me guess; “genitals” is a charged word as well and I shouldn’t refer to the TSA groping/genital touching by these terms?

Should I call it a happy love pat so we can avoid describing what they’re actually doing? Sure lying about it makes it sound nicer; but it doesn’t get around the fact that they’re touching the genital areas of children does it?

gekkobear on November 24, 2010 at 4:28 PM

If flying goes down by a substantial percentage because people don’t want to be groped, then airlines will go bankrupt AGAIN. They operate on a thin margin. And if all that happens, there won’t be much need for the TSA.

I know I won’t fly if I have a choice while these procedures are in place. And I do have a choice.

theCork on November 24, 2010 at 4:28 PM

If a lot of travelers avoid flying (like I am now), then the airlines will go bankrupt. And a lot of layoffs at the TSA.

theCork on November 24, 2010 at 4:30 PM

sorry for double-post… first comment took awhile to appear.

theCork on November 24, 2010 at 4:31 PM

jerryofva on November 24, 2010 at 3:57 PM

Quit with the “jew hater” stuff. If you are going to argue, don’t resort to ad-hominem attacks. They annoy the natives, and show the debater to be a rank amateur.

As for flying with El-Al, have you examined the El-Al route map? I believe that all roads lead to Tel Aviv, so any Arab travelling on El-Al between non-Israel destinations will have to be able to transit Israel.

If Arabs truely are that afraid that they don’t mind an Israeli stamp in their passport, well, I guess the rest of us should be scared shitless and certainly not be averse to even a body cavity search.

As for your little dog, one of the issues with using dogs is that PETN doesn’t smell — or, rather, it smells so little (has so little volatility) that sniffer dogs can’t smell it. PETN does not spell (or smell) fox. What the dogs have to discover is one of the other substances commonly used to as a co-detonator with PETN, of which there are many, some of which “smell” like petrochemicals used to make clothing.

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 4:36 PM

Touching an adult and touching a child are different, at least in my eyes. I’m surprised you’d claim they’re equivalent.

Kids are different in both my eyes and in the eyes of the law. Think I’m wrong? Go have consensual sex with a 14 year old and a 30 year old; which one gets you thrown in jail?

You’re willing to have children’s genitals touched for “safety”.

And let me guess; “genitals” is a charged word as well and I shouldn’t refer to the TSA groping/genital touching by these terms?

Should I call it a happy love pat so we can avoid describing what they’re actually doing? Sure lying about it makes it sound nicer; but it doesn’t get around the fact that they’re touching the genital areas of children does it?

gekkobear on November 24, 2010 at 4:28 PM

You can call it anything you want. Unwanted sexual touching of either an adult or a child will land you in prison, because both are felonies. Now, step one for you is to convince a court that a TSA agent in the line of duty is performing groping — unwanted touching designed to satisfy the sexual urge of the toucher.

Good luck.

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 4:39 PM

You can call it anything you want. Unwanted sexual touching of either an adult or a child will land you in prison, because both are felonies. Now, step one for you is to convince a court that a TSA agent in the line of duty is performing groping — unwanted touching designed to satisfy the sexual urge of the toucher.

Good luck.

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 4:39 PM

Ok so if I see a kid being groped on the street I should stop and ask the person doing the genital touching what his motivations are? Perhaps if his motivations are sound I should allow the genital touching of a child to continue.
Only if his motives are unsound should I object to this behavior.

I don’t see that as a persuasive argument.

gekkobear on November 24, 2010 at 4:48 PM

gekkobear on November 24, 2010 at 4:28 PM

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 4:39 PM

They are out there: TSA Officer Busted for Fondling 10-Year-Old Off Duty

slickwillie2001 on November 24, 2010 at 4:52 PM

I don’t see that as a persuasive argument.

gekkobear on November 24, 2010 at 4:48 PM

Forget it. He’s in the authoritarian wing of the Republican Party.

misterpeasea on November 24, 2010 at 5:02 PM

I think this is a device to lower the cost of ObamaCare.

Once you have been groped and scanned, the women will get a mammogram letter and the guys will get a letter about their prostate health from the TSA signed by Janet Incompetano and Dr. Obama that these tests have been performed and don’t ask your doctor for them.

txdoc on November 24, 2010 at 5:06 PM

Look, if Mona Charen is right (see her article, “Search for Terrorists, Not Weapons” http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/charen112610.php3 Israel doesn’t focus on racial profiling, it questions individuals about the reasons for their visit etc.

Also, we haven’t been using the available intelligence well. Whether it’s about the underwear bomber whose own father had warned us about him, or about the apparently dozens of illegal aliens are taking flying lessons in this country — we’re just not making good use of the information.

Overall, Ms. Charen is right — look for the culprits, not weapons.

lorettawm on November 24, 2010 at 5:10 PM

TSA Finds Junk, Misses 12″ Razor Blade.

And so we come to the close of another episode of Security Theater.

misterpeasea on November 24, 2010 at 5:30 PM

Overall, Ms. Charen is right — look for the culprits, not weapons.
lorettawm on November 24, 2010 at 5:10 PM

This is the crux of it all – including the child molestation issue.

Nobody’s questioning whether most government employees are pedophiles. Everyone knows that.

The kid (at least the one in the local reporter’s video) was searched because the TSA buffoon thought the child was acting suspiciously.

Of course no five-year-old, whether he’s from Idaho or Iran, has ever planned a terrorist attack. Anyone with the tiniest inkling of common sense would look to see whether the PARENTS were acting strangely, not whether their kid was. Anyone who’s even passingly familiar with the concept of children knows they all act strangely — in fact, that’s pretty much their only job.

logis on November 24, 2010 at 5:31 PM

Here’s a tweet. Some fliers are saying the scanners are turned off.

http://twitter.com/_msw_/status/7498236696723456

JellyToast on November 24, 2010 at 5:56 PM

You all realize there’s already a Federal ID system, issued by the State Department. It’s called a passport. I have no issues with having to show it rather than a Drivers License even on internal flights. Heck, they can even put that fancy biometric info on it, like they have on some Euro-zone passports. I assumed, probably incorrectly, that they did some sort of check on the original birth certificate and the SS Card I provided to get one. Security can look at the stamps in it, and if they see Yemen they can pull the person aside and ask them to explain. Do it while they’re waiting to check in baggage. Sorted.

ExPat on November 24, 2010 at 6:16 PM

uncle is stuck on stupid and yes from past posts you have demonstrated your antisemitism. For your information, The Israelis will provide you with a loose page for your passport so you can visit other countries in the region. They aren’t stupid.

The detonator is fragrant enough to catch the dog’s attention. Several years ago a sniffer dog alerted on the scent from a pickup truck in the Pentagon south parking lot from several hundred yards and led the police right to the truck. The owner, LTG Jerry Boykin, had been hunting and the dog picked up the residual. That’s how effective sniffer dogs are.

Dogs are effectively used by BATF, ICE, local law enforcement and military EOD teams. The reason TSA won’t use them is simple. Nobody will get rich off expensive scanners and it will take fewer union drones to do the job.

jerryofva on November 24, 2010 at 6:24 PM

The Times Square Bomber drove a vehicle. Can’t wait until “it’s generally accepted” that cops can pull you over, do a full TSA pat down of you and everyone in the car, then tear the car apart looking for ‘a bomb’. Didn’t you give implicit consent when you drove your car on a pubic roadway? Just like the consent you gave when you purchased an airline ticket.

After all, to hear the sheep tell it, “you want to be safe, don’t you?”.

Of course this will be done entirely at random. Just like TSA. Don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings.

And I’m sure the bomber built that vehicle bomb in a garage somewhere. Guess we’ll have to begin random searches of people’s garages. Just found 9 pounds of bomb material in a home in Escondido, Calif. Guess we might as well add the house to those ‘random searches’ as well.

After all, “we all want to be safe”.

GarandFan on November 24, 2010 at 6:38 PM

Jazz, sounds to me like you’re making excuses for sexual assault in violation of the fourth amendment. This seems pretty harsh considering that we know beyond a doubt that most of the people searched without warrants and groped down their bras and pants are not even suspected of a crime.

“Giving up rights when you purchase an airline ticket” is pure unmitigated unconstitutional bullshit. And the unconstitutionality of it is the only defense of my position I need.

gryphon202 on November 24, 2010 at 6:47 PM

Ok so if I see a kid being groped on the street I should stop and ask the person doing the genital touching what his motivations are? Perhaps if his motivations are sound I should allow the genital touching of a child to continue.
Only if his motives are unsound should I object to this behavior.

I don’t see that as a persuasive argument.

gekkobear on November 24, 2010 at 4:48 PM

Out on the street is one thing. Being examined in order to fly is another. You are being disingenuous by conflating the two.

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 7:35 PM

swanzoid on November 24, 2010 at 2:24 PM

Politico to the rescue:

However, “you can’t take the position that there should be no profiling, no intrusive searches, and it’s ridiculous to treat old ladies the same as young men. Those three ideas will not go together,” Wittes said. “At some point, you have to make honest choices about what kind of intrusions you’re more or less worried about, or you have to be open and honest about saying, ‘I’m willing to lose this number of airplanes a year.’…This does have a quality about it of people flatly refusing to make serious choices.”

and

Moving to a system that looks more at travelers’ backgrounds and less at what they may be wearing or carrying would also require another important change: greater certainty that a passenger actually is whom he or she claims to be.

Baker noted that Congress’s effort to move to a more secure system based on state-issued driver’s licenses, Real ID, was repeatedly rolled back by Congress and the Bush and Obama administrations.

“As long as it’s possible to get a fake driver’s license, an identity-based security system doesn’t work,” he said.

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 7:39 PM

Out on the street is one thing. Being examined in order to fly is another. You are being disingenuous by conflating the two.

unclesmrgol on November 24, 2010 at 7:35 PM

I think you are being disingenuous by differentiating. If I am a medical professional and a patient tells me he doesn’t want life-saving treatment, but I proceed to give him that treatment, I can be sued for battery and charged with criminal assualt. My intent doesn’t matter; if my patient feels assaulted and has made his/her wishes explicit, or even if I failed to properly get authorization, it’s *me* on the hook. It shouldn’t be any different for the TSA just because they claim to be looking out for us.

gryphon202 on November 24, 2010 at 8:06 PM

gryphon202 on November 24, 2010 at 8:06 PM

How dare you compare mere medical doctors to the PROFESSIONALS who work for TSA?

For crying out loud, every single one of them has received training… of some sort. To do, um, something, or other….

Well, damnit, they have federal freaking badges, OK? So you’d better quit asking questions – or else!

Seriously though, on the topic of “differentiating,” neither the roadway nor an operating room are fair standards for comparison.

Absolutely everything we’re discussing here would be perfectly reasonable for monitoring prison inmates, and all the responses evoked by noncompliance thereto would fall squarely within the pervue of prison guards. All the Obama administration is doing is simply expanding the same procedures and policies to all of America’s airports.

But don’t worry. They have made perfectly clear this is only a temporary situation. Everytime there is another attack, additional expansions to the program are being made. And if that doesn’t serve as a deterrent, you can bet your ass they’ll continue to take whatever followup actions they deem necessary to maintain control of everyone who tries to evade their security measures.

logis on November 24, 2010 at 8:30 PM

I disagree with Jazz on his answer to Complaint No. 1. There is no bright line on Fourth Amendment searches. The Constitution talks about The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, . .. “Shall not be violated” is absolute, but “unreasonable searches and seizures” is more ambiguous. What’s unreasonable depends on the circumstances and the nature of the intrusion. The courts have dissected this in exquisite detail, drawing distinctions between automobiles and buildings, frisking for weapons vs. pat downs for possible drugs. So some types of searches at airports can be allowed without concluding that one’s constitutional rights have been lost.

There has to be a weighing process in which the danger, both the type and likelihood of the threat, is weighed against the intrusion on a person’s rights. If the object is absolute safety, we’re a lot safer flying without these enhanced search methods than we would be driving.

My view is that X-raying carry-on articles and passing through metal detectors is justified given the drastic, albeit unlikely, nature of the threat and the minimal nature of the the search.

But looking under peoples’ clothing, inserting hands into the most private parts of one’s person pushes the whole thing into the realm of unreasonable. Courts consider the cause for the search, in terms of probable cause, meaning the likelihood that the person being searched is engaged in an illegal activity or in possession of some evidence of a crime, but these cases come up in the context of whether evidence found in such a search can be used to prosecute you. The stakes are different when you’re looking for a bomb. Still, the probability of the threat does count.

On 9/11 we grounded all air traffic. But once we had a grasp of what had happened we allowed it to resume, encouraging people to fly “or the terrorists will have won.” Now 9 years later, it’s we can’t let you fly without being humiliated and it’s for your own good.” Isn’t that the epitome of the progressive mindset: “You can’t be trusted to look out for yourself.” There should be more to support being treated like a criminal than the mere fact that one wants to board an airliner. Is that really sufficient grounds for suspicion to justify what is essentially a strip search? These people are traveling, not being booked into jail or prison.

The whole point of terrorism is not to win with force, but to cause fear and annoyance to the point that one’s enemy will withdraw or relent. To the extent that we submit to being stripped of our dignity, we’ve allowed terrorism to achieve its goal.

However, in the case of Islamist terrorism, the stated goal is to spread Islam over the earth through force. Our task should be to convince these madmen that they’re doomed to failure. Until then we’ll need courage. As others have said, we need to be a pack not a herd. Part of our problem is that we’ve succumbed to political correctness to the point where we have all agreed to become victims rather than take a chance of being accused of racism. It’s the triumph of the lawyers.

flataffect on November 24, 2010 at 9:18 PM

I have a state issued drivers license. I have a federal govt issued passport. I have a security clearance also issued by the federal govt. I don’t know how many here know just how invasive a federal govt security clearance investigation is, but trust me, it is invasive.

Why would I not qualify for an exemption from TSA groping with all this ID? Given what I know about the investigation process, I have trouble believing a genuine terrorist could make it through.

Of course we’re talking about the federal govt, so I may have invalidated my entire argument right there….

runawayyyy on November 24, 2010 at 9:49 PM

Why would I not qualify for an exemption from TSA groping with all this ID? Given what I know about the investigation process, I have trouble believing a genuine terrorist could make it through.
runawayyyy on November 24, 2010 at 9:49 PM

I think some people are completely missing the point here. Screening EVERYONE is the same thing as screening NO ONE!

Of course people like you should go though quickly. If you want to get felt up, spend your own money on it. I want every penny of my tax dollars to focused on people who are terrorist suspects.

Pube scans; anal probes; fine – but not for everyone.

Hell, I’m even willing to spring for the occasional waterboarding of a very select few. But the infinitely egalitarian way liberals always end up spreading that stuff around in their “worker’s paradises” is, among other things, horrifically ineficient.

logis on November 24, 2010 at 11:06 PM

I have a state issued drivers license. I have a federal govt issued passport. I have a security clearance also issued by the federal govt. I don’t know how many here know just how invasive a federal govt security clearance investigation is, but trust me, it is invasive.

runawayyyy on November 24, 2010 at 9:49 PM

I’ll bet.

unclesmrgol on November 25, 2010 at 12:10 AM

I think you are being disingenuous by differentiating. If I am a medical professional and a patient tells me he doesn’t want life-saving treatment, but I proceed to give him that treatment, I can be sued for battery and charged with criminal assualt. My intent doesn’t matter; if my patient feels assaulted and has made his/her wishes explicit, or even if I failed to properly get authorization, it’s *me* on the hook. It shouldn’t be any different for the TSA just because they claim to be looking out for us.

gryphon202 on November 24, 2010 at 8:06 PM

Your doctor doesn’t x-ray your bags every time you come to the office either, nor does he ask you whether anyone else handled them, right? [In other words, you have chosen a really crappy simile.]

unclesmrgol on November 25, 2010 at 12:24 AM

Jazz, the next time a plane comes down due to Muslim terrorists people will notice who did it. Airport scanning will become incidental. Walking on the street while Muslim will become sufficient reason to beat the living stuffing out of the Muslim, good, bad, or indifferent. Wear Buddhist saffron robes and shaved head, your cross, your star of David, or other favorite religious symbol proudly and publicly to be safe.

It’s not escaped the notice of people that for every crazed Christian we have in America we have between a dozen and a few hundred Muslim sudden jihadists. It’s also more than noticeable that all the “moderates” the networks fasten on have back stories of extremism and extremist utterances often concurrently with their being professional “moderates” on national TV. There seem to be the same ratio or worse of true moderates who are willing to come forward and articulate that terrorism is bad no matter against whom it is directed or the terrorist’s background, that sharia law must NEVER supplant secular US law, and that all religions must and can exist together peacefully in a secular society. One of those friendly Muslims is countered by hundreds of anti-assimilation violence espousing main stream Muslims.

I fear that the real moderates, if they exist, will not come forth in any numbers until it is too late – for them AND for us. Once we react to the real danger in Islam in the last resort fashion of removing them from this country by one means or another we will no longer be the great people we’ve been in the past.

In the event of another bombing or hijacking of an American plane killing many American citizens the TSA may do what the TSA will do. But, the government will lose control of the situation and the citizens will do the government’s job of rooting out the “radical Muslims”. Sadly the citizens will not do it nearly as delicately as the government might. Look to WW-II for an example of how barbaric we can become when we’re pissed.

Note that the escalating TSA measures are simply making people angrier and angrier with the Muslims who are “forcing” this upon us if we want safe flights (on planes no longer worth riding on such as Continental’s flying pieces of junk with half the room a human should have for good health.)

Meanwhile the TSA confiscates little pocket knives with really short blades that would hurt the assailant as much or more than the “victim” of any action involving the knife. Maybe we’d be better off issuing a handgun loaded with wax bullet rounds to any passenger who wanted one for the duration of the flight. Do you think anybody would DARE to think of hijacking the plane?

Now consider your obvious aversion to “profiling”. You even mention Yid’s posting which mentions it. Note that BEHAVIORAL profiling is a major part of the picture.

{o.o} (And what happens when a terrorist simply walks into the inspection area with a thousand or more people all in once place and detonates himself?)

herself on November 25, 2010 at 2:42 AM

If flying goes down by a substantial percentage because people don’t want to be groped, then airlines will go bankrupt AGAIN.

theCork on November 24, 2010 at 4:28 PM

Sounds good for the US automobile industry. :)

Shy Guy on November 25, 2010 at 5:58 AM

It’s not escaped the notice of people that for every crazed Christian we have in America …

ROFL … yeah … they are in the news every night. Beheadings, blowing up buildings, … just crazy, huh?

There seem to be the same ratio or worse of true moderates who are willing to come forward and articulate that terrorism is bad no matter against whom it is directed or the terrorist’s background, that sharia law must NEVER supplant secular US law,…

The moderate is a mythical animal.

that all religions must and can exist together peacefully in a secular society…

All except the one’s that want you either as a slave or dead.

I fear that the real moderates, if they exist,…

They are hanging out with the unicorns.

In the event of another bombing or hijacking of an American plane killing many American citizens the TSA may do what the TSA will do. …

No. Any event, adverse or otherwise, is not a free pass for any branch or department of government to do anything.

But, the government will lose control of the situation and the citizens will do the government’s job of rooting out the “radical Muslims”. …

You are buying into the MSM definition. There is no such thing as a “radical Muslim”. Only devout and non-devout.

Look to WW-II for an example of how barbaric we can become when we’re pissed.

Watch me as someone tells me that ‘patting down’ or taking pictures of my wife and kids is a national security interest.

AZ_Redneck on November 25, 2010 at 7:58 AM

As I sit hre on the toilet before I prepare the T-giving feast, I have to say that HA has gone into the throne, like the very one I’m sitting on.
This article of ‘reasoning’ is an EPIC FAIL.
This is largely the reason I read HA less & less often.
Since the ‘take over’, I find the quality of stuff here is not to my liking as it once was.
And so now, I find myself reading HA on occasion in the throne room.
If the intent is to post moronic stuff like this in the hopes of cashing in on viewers, you are slitting your own throat bcs it makes people like me want to go somewhere else for the meat.

Badger40 on November 25, 2010 at 10:03 AM

When you find the meat … post it. There are others that would enjoy it.

AZ_Redneck on November 25, 2010 at 11:14 AM

I close my eyes
And see you before me
Think I would die
If you were to ignore me
A fool could see
Just how much I adore you
I get down on my knees
I’d do anything for you

J_Crater on November 25, 2010 at 11:32 AM

How about if – as a “Christian Nation” as many conservatives describe the USA – we started rating how long it took you to get through security based on how well you knew the New Testament?

fine by me. Bring it on. I’m in Bible Studies every Sunday morning.

moochy on November 25, 2010 at 2:12 PM

test

davisbr on November 25, 2010 at 2:48 PM

Hmpf. So I cannot haz the “f” word for non-civil, pert, usage on HA?

Whatever.

So, to reprise the what I was apparently blocked from posting a bit earlier …Jazz, there are so many holes in your assertions and reasoning (why reprise them, when so many have been so eloquent) that this post pretty much boils down to you are an effin’ moron.

…hunh …can’t use the “f” word??? No wonder I don’t venture far from DPUD.

davisbr on November 25, 2010 at 2:51 PM

FIRE
JAZZ.
End of discussion.

leftnomore on November 25, 2010 at 4:18 PM

I haven’t heard anyone explain this point. The enhanced screening procedures are still supposedly random. If you are going to have full body scans or “opt out” gropes, then they should be mandatory for everyone. If the whole idea is that we don’t discriminate, then everyone should get the enhanced screening. If as the TSA emphasizes, the vast majority of travelers only go thorugh a metal detector, then what is the point of the enhanced screenings? Is it only a deterrent? What a waste of money.

That’s the worst of both worlds: The TSA abandons targeted profiling of likely bad guys, but it doesn’t fully screen everyone despite the technology to do so. If it isn’t logistically possible, then it is a waste of money if you aren’t also profiling. Instead, you make a big show about how democratic and fair we are by randomized selective intrusive searches of old women, hot women and cancer survivors. The people who have the discretion for these “random” screenings are some of the lowest paid federal employees.

It’s not the intrusive nature of the search that bothers me the most, it’s the fact that enormous resources are expended in a way that has very little likelihood of making us any safer.

To Jazz’s point about the fact that we’re not China, I am lost. You seem to acknowledge at least the argument that no one has a right to fly. So we don’t have an absolute right to fly, but somehow the government can’t profile in a way that is statistically more likely to make us safer when it screens passengers? Now it sounds like we do have some absolute rights when it comes to flying.

I recall Hitchens writing in the last few years something to the effect that, if you think our big government operates effeciently, just try dealing with one of those agencies for any service. Add the regional monopoly private / public utilities, phone company, cable company to the mix. If you haven’t had an abyssmal experience with one of these agencies, you’re in the minority. We’re a heck of a lot more like China than you might care to admit, Jazz. We’re moving inexorably closer to a centrally planned society as to our transportation, social welfare and now economy. One of the biggest criticisms of China is that there is very little sense of personal responsibility–a lack of an internal moral ethos. One argument for the cause is that 60 years of central government control has de-emphasized the sense of personal responsibility.

The TSA issue emphasizes this. Has the TSA ever stopped a terrorist? My recollection is that it was individual passengers who decided not to allow islamists to kill them. I’m not saying that we have to all rely on ourselves to keep us safe, but focusing on these randomized “enhanced” screenings is an absolute joke.

An Objectivist on November 25, 2010 at 5:40 PM

As Mr. Shaw has been rather thoroughly fisked by the commenters, I don’t have much to add, other than to say that this is the least convincing, most poorly defended opinion piece I’ve read at Hot Air ever.

holygoat on November 25, 2010 at 11:03 PM

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