Four year old met his mother’s miscarried child in Heaven
posted at 8:45 am on November 19, 2010 by The Right Scoop
Well he’s 7 years old now and it took a couple of years for his parents to really understand what happened, but when Colton Burpo was four years he was having surgery in the hospital for a burst appendix. While he was in surgery he apparently had some sort of out of body experience and could see what his parents were doing. He witnessed that his dad was praying and his mom on her cellphone. Both parents say they have no clue how he knew that, but that it’s absolutely true. And the story just gets more interesting from there.
Apparently during the same surgery Colton went to Heaven where he recounts how he met his grandfather who he had never known, who he later recognized in photos. The interesting thing is that he didn’t recognize photos of his grandfather as an old man with glasses, which is how everyone knew him, but rather as a young man. Colton’s father literally had go find a photo of ‘Pop’ as a young man before Colton was able to recognize him. Now that’s pretty wild.
But I must say what really surprised me was that Colton’s father recounts how Colton, still 4 years old, told his mother “you had a baby die in your tummy didn’t you”, which completely shocked them both because they had never told him about their miscarriage. They asked him how he knew and he said that he met his sister in Heaven and she told him what happened.
Dude.
Now while I know this story is quite uncommon, I must say that I have no reason to disbelieve what they are saying, and in fact it seems to corroborate what I already believe to be true as a Christian. I’m sure there are some of you who will be naysayers, but to me this is pretty amazing and rather difficult to simply reject out of hand. Watch the interview below to hear more about this story:
Cross Posted at www.therightscoop.com
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The whole point of Jesus and the New Testament is that nobody since Adam has ever had the ability to completely obey the moral law of God. That’s why we need a Savior.
tommyboy on November 19, 2010 at 11:02 AM
I believe in God. That’s good enough.
I will pray for you as well.
Roy Rogers on November 19, 2010 at 11:03 AM
For most of history, Europeans knew of no evidence that America existed. But it did. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
RegularJoe on November 19, 2010 at 11:03 AM
Really? The Bible says even Satan and his demons believe in God – and they shudder.
tommyboy on November 19, 2010 at 11:04 AM
JannyMae on November 19, 2010 at 11:02 AM
You have no knowledge of anyone else’s truth. If you deem to know the TRUTH of OTHER PEOPLE, then that makes you God.
tessa on November 19, 2010 at 11:05 AM
This happened to me about 20 years ago, while not a near death experience, it was still something that defies logic. I traveled weekly from Phoenix to Chicago on United, back when they flew DC10s on that route. I had a cassette music player back then with headphones. It was the type that you had to take out, flip over, to play the other side. It was not a continuous play type of player. For you youngsters here, we had primitive music options compared to ipods. If we wanted to listen to more than one cassette, we had to carry them all with us, but I digress.
Shortly after takeoff on the plane (I flew so much, I got first class upgrades), I settled in for the flight and put on my U2 Joshua tree cassette. I was seated in one of the middle 2 seats (DC10 first class seating was a 2 2 2 configuation). I have a memory of looking back and seeing a figure coming up the aisle dressed in old fashioned type of clothing you see in biblical pictures. However, there was no face under the hoodie type of hood, just a 2 dimensional oval bright light, like a mirror. I remember this object/figure coming to sit down next to me and hold my hand. Mind you, there was a passenger in the seat next to me.
The figure/object said, “my child, why don’t you let me carry the load for you” (I was recovering from a hurtful divorce). There was quite the conversation back and forth between myself and the object. Next thing I knew, I heard the wheels come down for the landing and I was aware of my surroundings again.
here is the spooky part, so this is why I don’t dismiss what happened to me as just a dream. The U2 Joshua tree song was EXACTLY where it was playing when I first became aware of that object/figure coming up the aisle toward me.
Since the cassette would play about 20 to 22 minutes on each side before it came to an end, and I did not rewind and play, i have no explanation on how the music was still on, 4.5 hours later, in the same song as when I first started out in Phoenix. Also, the batteries didn’t often last a full flight back then, either, and my batteries were still going strong in that thing.
When I mentioned this to my family counselor after I got back to Phoenix, (he was an ordained minister with a PhD in counseling and worked for the baptist family services), he told me that what happened to me was biblical because I did not see a face in the figure. Everywhere in the Bible where God spoke to people, it was through some kind of object. Being raised a Methodist where they NEVER had us read anything in the Bible when I grew up in that church, I was unaware of that.
So I believe the kid, too.
karenhasfreedom on November 19, 2010 at 11:05 AM
I appreciate the kindness embodied by that offer. Thank you.
I wonder, could you tell me upon what you base your belief? I “showed you mine”; can you show me yours?
RegularJoe on November 19, 2010 at 11:05 AM
I don’t believe there is a real consensus on all of the “beliefs” required to be called a Christian, with the exception of the obvious one, by defnition, that you have accepted Christ as your saviour. That’s why we have so many different denominations. There are also people who believe in God, the immortality of the soul, and Heaven, but are not Christians. Some people seem to want to make all believers fit into some kind of tiny box of beliefs, and it really isn’t that simple. I don’t call someone a hypocrite just because they don’t believe exactly as I think they should, or don’t interpret the Bible as literally as some denominations believe it should be interpreted. There’s an awful lot of room in the God tent.
mbs on November 19, 2010 at 11:06 AM
God saved my life. He told me it was not my time yet.
Roy Rogers on November 19, 2010 at 11:07 AM
I should have added that you can converse with spirits under hypnosis and meet people you never knew were related. I once hypnotized a friend’s kid who wanted to meet his grandmother in “heaven.” Instead, his grandmother’s brother showed up and told him things he never knew about his grandmother. Never having heard of his great-uncle, he had to ask his mother who confirmed it. Likewise, I hypnotized my daughter and conversed with her spirit guide who turned out to be my wife’s deceased brother. He told me in great detail what goes on in “heaven.” Later, I found much of the same information in Michael Newton’s books, “Journey of Souls” and “Destiny of Souls.”
NNtrancer on November 19, 2010 at 11:07 AM
What a cool story! It sure makes you wonder…
joe_doufu on November 19, 2010 at 11:08 AM
Even if this story is true it doesn’t prove that any religion is correct. It doesn’t prove Jesus was here creating zombies and making water into wine any more than it proves any of the other Abrahamic claims.
The idea of an afterlife is not exclusive to the Abrahamic religions so a story like this lends as much weight to those religions as it does to any of the Abrahamic ones. The kid called it heaven because that’s the word our culture uses for it. If he were in Tibet he would have called it Nirvana. If he were a Viking he would have called it Valhalla.
In any case, it’s a pretty interesting story. There are a lot of similar stories. But keep in mind it’s about 3 years later and it would be very easy to make this stuff up. This is according to the typical script for NDEs. It’s like alien abduction stories. None are complete without invasive surgical procedures. NDE stories are not complete without dead relatives.
They say dad had to find a picture of “pops” when he was young to get the kid to recognize him. Why were they “trying” to get the kid to recognize him? It sounds like coercion. The kid probably wanted to please his parents so he went along. None of this can really be verified and it can’t be disproven either.
Why didn’t balloon boy’s parents think of this?
deewhybee on November 19, 2010 at 11:09 AM
karenhasfreedom on November 19, 2010 at 11:05 AM
God had to interupt, Joshua Tree was not their best album. ;-)
Just kidding, thanks for the great story, I believe you.
tessa on November 19, 2010 at 11:10 AM
I’m not sure of the numbers but I would bet that a couple of million people would disagree with you. Just because Hume wrote a book saying that miracles don’t happen doesn’t make it true. The same is true of the book in this story but if it touches your heart then maybe it is. Who are we to say one way or the other without knowing for sure?
New Patriot on November 19, 2010 at 11:11 AM
In my line of work I’ve had a few patients “die”(lose vital signs) on my OR table. After we got them back and they got well enough I can recall a handful that told me about something like an out of body or afterlife experience. Not all of them and not really any kind of religious inclination.
So who knows? What happens after one dies is above my paygrade.
chicagotrauma on November 19, 2010 at 11:12 AM
Your faith has to be pretty weak to glom onto dumb stories like this.
Blake on November 19, 2010 at 11:13 AM
Sourpuss, miracles happen every day. Someday one will happen to you.
tessa on November 19, 2010 at 11:13 AM
All we can do is tell them God loves them and is willing to heal their suffering, if they only ask Him.
Roy Rogers on November 19, 2010 at 11:15 AM
Oh, please! They weren’t brain dead and therefore not dead.
Blake on November 19, 2010 at 11:15 AM
Hmmmm… did he show you his ID? (sorry, the smart aleck in me comes out sometimes. Still, the Bible says that Satan comes as and Angel of Light, so I would need to know more before I fully accepted that your encounter, even if fully authentic, was in fact with God)
Anyway, during this encounter did He tell you that belief in his Son was NOT necessary, even though the Bible tells us Jesus himself said it was? I’m really not trying to be rude; I am just curious why you have this belief. I *AM* challenging your belief; but I really am trying to be civil and respectful in the process.
RegularJoe on November 19, 2010 at 11:15 AM
Haters gonna hate.
wearyman on November 19, 2010 at 11:16 AM
roy rodgers……..
People are looking for you…..in a good way
http://itsaboutfreedom.proboards.com/index.cgi?
RealMc on November 19, 2010 at 11:17 AM
My faith is not dependent on what you believe. My faith is only dependent on what I believe.
I believe in God, and I believe I walk in God’s shadow. I do not distinguish between God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit, as God just IS.
I believe in God’s Love, and in God’s Forgiveness.
Even Thomas doubted the Lord, but the Lord never doubted Thomas.
Roy Rogers on November 19, 2010 at 11:21 AM
You are right they weren’t dead, but they had no heart beat, or vital signs. A state in which many people claim to have this after life experience. This is why I wrote “die”.
chicagotrauma on November 19, 2010 at 11:22 AM
Tessa, the song that was playing during this episode was the one with the lyrics, “I still haven’t found what I am looking for”. Double spooky.
However, all of my life, I have never had all of life’s doors slammed shut without another door or window opening at the same time. I am one of the lucky ones, and again, I don’t know why.
karenhasfreedom on November 19, 2010 at 11:22 AM
It has been a while. I needed a reminder.
Thank You!
Roy Rogers on November 19, 2010 at 11:22 AM
come on over the waters fine……. ;)
RealMc on November 19, 2010 at 11:24 AM
Busted! I read what was posted over there! Shucks! Me and Dale Evans (the Minnesota gal) are getting hitched in the Spring. That she found me is just one of many miracles in my life!
Roy Rogers on November 19, 2010 at 11:30 AM
Not following you there…….Sorry, I recall you form PowerLine…….
Soooooo I hope that you finding the Ms is a good thing…..
and hope to “see” you around……..
RealMc on November 19, 2010 at 11:33 AM
Winebabe,
Thank you. I did the same stupid thing and felt exactly what you felt watching this. It really hit home.
God Bless you.
akerralls on November 19, 2010 at 11:37 AM
BTW, read this story on DListed (!!) and someone made a good point – if everyone is “young” in heaven why was Pawh-Pawh so old.
Marcus on November 19, 2010 at 10:59 AM
———–
SHHHH YOU’LL RUIN EVERYTHING THIS FAMILY HAD SPENT YEARS PLANNING
Dave Rywall on November 19, 2010 at 11:39 AM
It’s misleading and you know it. Fainting or lack of oxygen to the brain may cause hallucinations. This is not “dying” or “going to heaven” or whatever.
Blake on November 19, 2010 at 11:41 AM
Who planted the tree of knowledge that Adam ate from? Given that Adam didn’t have a car, God apparently planted that tree fairly close to Adam’s abode.
dedalus on November 19, 2010 at 11:47 AM
Drywall, let me know when you actually read the Bible and can comment on it with context, rather than just c/p crap you find on the web. So far, you’re oh-fer. Keep flogging that chicken though, it’s amusing.
fossten on November 19, 2010 at 11:48 AM
You still here, lurking? When are you going to respond to my proof that you were wrong about the Sabbath?
fossten on November 19, 2010 at 11:48 AM
I’m sorta torn both ways about this story. My grandfather thought he was driving a beer truck for several days before he died. I’m sure lack of oxygen or something else was the cause of that.
And I “knew” that my father had died and something was very wrong in another situation when I was a kid. My dad was taken to the hospital by my mother because he wasn’t feeling well (very unusual) and suddenly just had this really weird feeling when he was there. My mom and dad didn’t make me go to church one Sunday morning (just woke me up and then left) and I “knew” something was wrong. In those cases, I think the brain is putting the pieces together subconsciously, rather than any miracle.
The “out of body” experience? Not sure I can explain it.
Jimbo3 on November 19, 2010 at 11:56 AM
For some religions, it is merely symbolic. For others it is not.
For example, in my faith, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believes that baptism is a prerequisite.
Conservative Samizdat on November 19, 2010 at 12:02 PM
Drywall, let me know when you actually read the Bible and can comment on it with context, rather than just c/p crap you find on the web. So far, you’re oh-fer. Keep flogging that chicken though, it’s amusing.
fossten on November 19, 2010 at 11:48 AM
——-
Hotair, let me know when you actually read the Qur’an and can comment on it with context, rather than just c/p crap you find on the web. So far, you’re oh-fer. Keep flogging that chicken though, it’s amusing.
Dave Rywall on November 19, 2010 at 12:05 PM
Just a couple of things:
1. You atheists believe in a faith. Atheism is a faith that God does not exist. You are quite evangelical about it. For what purpse, I sure do not understand.
2. If this child was telling a story about some issue that is near and dear to your heart, you would believe it. Why not believe this story? And to the person said that he didn’t tell the story until just recently, you should either read the article or watch the video. He told his parents after it happened, but they didn’t understand what he was telling them.
3. My Grandmother was in a coma for two weeks prior to her death. The decision was made that someone from the family would be with her 24-7 during that time. Around 2:00 am one morning, she suddenly came to, had a huge smile on her face, stretched her arms out and said “Poppy” (what she called her father) . . . and then peacefully died. My uncle was there at the time and said it was absolutely miraculous.
4. This story comes very, very close to what has been described as possibly what heaven will be as well as the moment of death in a book entitled “Heaven” written by Randy Alcorn. His research showed him that people will be what they looked like or would have looked like in their early 30s which is our optimum body according to science. Fascinating book.
To the brave lady who told her abortion story, remember God has forgiven you and that sin is in the sea of His forgetfulness. You have something really great to anticipate some wonderful day.
5. To the person who remarked that he saw nothing when he was dead for 1 minute . . . I would hit my knees if I were you. You have received a very good warning.
6. The father of a friend of mine was in a nursing home when an atheist died. On the night he died his screaming was absolutely frightening.
Thank you HA for making this story known. As you will see by the video, this was on Fox NEWS for those who disparage including this story on this website. It seems like this site has been used for atheist stories. So you who object to it, may I suggest that the next time you see such a story, just don’t read it. This is still a free country.
Voter from WA State on November 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM
Thanks to those of you who have shared your heart warming stories. Many times we’ve had things happen that just couldn’t be explained. Some of our friends had a 2.5 year old granddaughter being treated for brain cancer. One day during a scan the girls mother and the tech observed her chatting away toward the corner of the room. After the scan was finished the mom asked her daughter who she was talking to. She replied “I was talking to Jesus, Mommy!” She saw Jesus another time or two before her death. The stories she related seemed impossible for her to make up at her young age.
Several weeks before my father-in-law died he began watching Spanish TV stations in the hospital and conversing in Spanish with one of the nurses. He was in his 80′s, had only spoken English and we were completely baffled by it. Later we found out he had lived in Mexico for a short while as a young adult and had learned Spanish then. It seemed odd that he had remembered a language he hadn’t spoken for 60+ years.
Another day we visited my f-i-l he asked us what happened to the airplanes that flew into the buildings. We hadn’t heard that on the news and asked where he saw it. He had been watching CNN in the hospital but we couldn’t find any news reports about it on the local news, cable news and we had scoured the internet. We searched for days and found nothing. My f-i-l died 8/10/01. Needless to say, when we awoke the morning of 9/11/01 and saw the airplanes flying into the building we were chilled beyond words.
GrannySunni on November 19, 2010 at 12:09 PM
1. IKYABWAI
2. Example from any of my posts?
MJBrutus on November 19, 2010 at 12:11 PM
You like to generalize but don’t care to spend any time reading what people here have actually had to say. Perhaps that intellectual laziness is why you’re a theist.
MJBrutus on November 19, 2010 at 12:12 PM
Actually, Paul addressed that problem in several different letters, first to the congregation at Corinth:
2 Corinthians 4:3-4
and later to the congregation at Thessalonica:
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
Just read the headlines and you see them buying into that “strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false…” But 500 years before Paul, the prophet Daniel wrote what The Angel told him of the latter days, “…but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. “(Daniel 12:9)
Comforting, if you’re a believer…
oldleprechaun on November 19, 2010 at 12:20 PM
Kraut, Why don’t you try reading the book I Don’t Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist by Norman Geisler and Frank Turek.
The problem is that science doesn’t disprove the possibility of Creation/God, scientists do. When you study something you have a data set to start with. Since most scientist are non believers they rule out that possibility before they start. Now if you don’t have the possibility of a creator in your model you can’t ever come to a conclusion that would support that as a possibility would you?
If you want to believe that we all came from some single cell organisms floating around in goo than that’s your right but it’s just a little to much for me to believe. The complexity of what we are today just doesn’t jive with that. DNA of just about anything has way to much structure to be random. Nothing created something and that something provided everything we needed just by accident is not “something” I can believe.
New Patriot on November 19, 2010 at 12:22 PM
Right Scoop, thanks for the piece. There are several complaints but with 4 pages of posts I think you’re doing pretty good!
New Patriot on November 19, 2010 at 12:24 PM
Yes, they do. One happened to me very recently. And I, and my family and friends, am very thankful for it.
But thanks for letting me know I’m a nutter. It’s quite tolerant of you.
Dominion on November 19, 2010 at 12:26 PM
Science cannot possibly disprove the possibility of any number of hypotheses. Science cannot disprove the Muslims or Hindus either. Do you accept what the believe? In order to disprove a theory, the theory must make some claim that can be tested in a way that provides results which we can detect. Your religion and most others avoid any such testing. That is why it is madness to accept claims which are not testable. When one does so, one can be made to believe anything at all, so long as the story presented leaves nothing the we can put to the test.
Maybe we did, maybe we didn’t. However, it is at least possible to put such a hypothesis to the test, even if we lack the ability to conduct such an experiment today. That makes such a theory a scientific one. It does not of course mean that we should believe it until it has passed a sufficiently strong test.
MJBrutus on November 19, 2010 at 12:30 PM
Miracles don’t happen people.
SauerKraut537 on November 19, 2010 at 9:06 AM
Yes, they do. One happened to me very recently. And I, and my family and friends, am very thankful for it.
But thanks for letting me know I’m a nutter. It’s quite tolerant of you.
Dominion on November 19, 2010 at 12:26 PM
——–
My favourite miracles are the ones where 5 people miraculously survive a plane crash but 200 people die. God made a miracle happen!
Dave Rywall on November 19, 2010 at 12:32 PM
Here’s the thing Dave Rywall, if you are arguing about something in the Bible, you should make sure it’s there first. If I wereas trying to convince a Muslim something was wrong with what the Koran said, I would make sure I knew what I said was in fact in there. So yes if you are going to argue with a Muslim you should read the Koran first. If you are going to argue with a Christian you should read the Bible or at least the New Testament first.
Rose on November 19, 2010 at 12:34 PM
“if I were”
Rose on November 19, 2010 at 12:34 PM
I explained it. Obviously, you’ve never played the Mary Worth game – don’t. [As kids we would put a scarf around our necks, hyperventilate, and someone would tighten the scarf until you almost passed out. Presto! Out of body experience.]
As to everything else you said, yes, the mind can connect the dots. This kid heard either his parents or someone else talking about the miscarriage. My kid swears he knew someone who died before he was even conceived because he “peeked” outside his mother’s stomach. The other talks about places we lived before he was born with familiarity. Kids hear their parents talking and they want to be part of the conversation. It is common. I have to question people’s true beliefs if they need this type of hogwash to sustain it.
Blake on November 19, 2010 at 12:35 PM
Why thank you for calling me “lazy” . . . and I did read the comments on this article because I found them very interesting. Maybe you don’t understand the word “faith”. You no doubt have “faith” that a plane will fly when it takes off. And you have “faith” that God does not exist.
I do care about your lack of faith in God because being a Christian makes me care about those who don’t have that faith. However, you can call me “lazy” all day long. You can call me “ignorant”. My King, Jesus the Christ, had a lot worse words hurled at Him so I call it all joy.
Voter from WA State on November 19, 2010 at 12:35 PM
My Grandma saw her long since deceased sisters and Dad in the hospital numerous times and they all drove around town in a model-T and had the best time! We eventually discovered this vision occurred each time she was given a dose of percoset, which she was very sensitive to, and not anywhere near death. Beware of confirmation bias, is all I’m saying. And keep watch out for this family collecting money at their door to let people in to pat the head of the golden child. Seen this before.
Allahs vulva on November 19, 2010 at 12:36 PM
I don’t trust this kid.
Black Yoshi on November 19, 2010 at 12:38 PM
To all the Christians here God Bless you. I would like to share something that I picked up somewhere that helps me a lot when things go wrong or are bothering me.
The shortest distance between a problem and a solution is the distance between your knees and the floor! Amen
To the rest of you God Bless you to, I Love You and thanks for helping me to confirm my faith.
New Patriot on November 19, 2010 at 12:40 PM
I do believe you. But no more so than I believe the kid. Without physical evidence, it’s just your words claiming you saw nothing, and his he saw something.
Maybe you each saw what you needed to see. Or maybe you each saw what your reward will be. Who knows?
But I still go with the kid. Scam, truth or whatever, there will be people who are comforted, and their lives will be better.
I have the same thought for you, and the usual trolls (blue, rino, drywall, etc.) who so enjoy stinking up the place – if you don’t like it, go away. You won’t be missed.
Squiggy on November 19, 2010 at 12:41 PM
No, it is not faith in that plane. It is not faith because I have evidence to think that it will fly. It is you who lacks understanding of the “F” word. I have no faith about any god(s) one way or the other. I reject the hypotheses that claim their existence because there is not evidence and no way to even obtain evidence about the critters.
Not to split hairs, but I called you intellectually lazy.
I gave you the reasons why.
MJBrutus on November 19, 2010 at 12:42 PM
I enjoyed this post and most of the commentary it inspired, and I welcome more like it.
I would like Dave to know that I am a Christian woman, and I feel so blessed to be one. I am treated so well by my family and my church. The happiest days of my life were the ones right after I joined the church. I will always remember the day after I was baptized, when a member of our bishopric told me I had so much happiness in store for me because of my decision. I was so happy at that time, I didn’t see how it could be possible for anything to make me any happier. That is the strongest testimony I have. After 20+ years of looking for answers, how can you explain a “fairy tale” finally make me so happy–a happiness I had NEVER experienced before? The people I worked with also noticed a huge positive change in me, even though none of them shared my faith (and actually frequently mocked me for it.) For the first time in my life, it was actually easy to do the right thing, and actually hard to do wrong. Please, explain to me how you could think a silly “fairy tale” that supposedly treats women so “sh*tty” could have this effect.
When I look back on how I was treated as a woman before I found my faith, I feel so sad. I was told sex was not all that important, my body was not all that special, and I should be capable of doing anything a man can do despite my inferior physical strength. All lies and they did nothing but harm me.
I understand the skepticism, but there is a way to find the truth for yourself. For years before I joined my church I looked for answers, researching a variety of religions and Christian denominations and attending different church services trying to find the right one. I prayed for years that God would show me the truth.
Sometimes I still deal with doubts and I wonder about the seeming bizarreness that is our existence. But I strongly believe that if you draw closer to God he will draw closer to you. If I want to understand him better, I have to move closer to him, and that means doing the things he has told me to do. If he created me, he deserves my respect, and that means I better put forth the effort to go to him, not sit around on my butt crying about how I’m not going to believe in him until he proves himself to ME in a way that satisfies ME.
Polynath on November 19, 2010 at 12:42 PM
Sure is Salem Communications in here.
The Lone Platypus on November 19, 2010 at 12:45 PM
“well Jesus, he had a rough but kind face, sea blue eyes and a smile that could light up the heavens.”
uhhhhhhhh yeah. Anybody that doesn’t immediately recognize the high probability that this kid is being coached should meet me at the poker table in 5 minutes.
Zetterson on November 19, 2010 at 12:52 PM
Not necessarily. The Bible doesn’t say how long Adam and Eve were there before finding and eating from the tree.
Esthier on November 19, 2010 at 12:53 PM
Ah, so when you do it to Christians, it’s all good and reasonable. When Hot Air people do it to Muslims it’s different and even bigoted probably. Is that about right?
Esthier on November 19, 2010 at 12:54 PM
I’ve heard stories like this all my life. As a Mormon, I believe that families can be sealed together not just for time, but for all eternity. I heard many stories of people who have entered the spirit world and returned having met family members who had died before them, some they never knew in life. We believe that every person has a spirit who looks like that person at his prime of life.
There are a lot of questions still remaining about these things, but I’ve heard too many of them to doubt that they’re real.
flataffect on November 19, 2010 at 12:57 PM
Perhaps arrogance is why you’re not.
Esthier on November 19, 2010 at 12:58 PM
SauerKraut537 is one of those types where if he/she heard someone say to another who’s loved one jsut died “he’s in a better place, SaurKraut would “no, that’s a bunch of BS. Your loved one is nothing but worm food”.
DethMetalCookieMonst on November 19, 2010 at 1:02 PM
The reason it took 3 years for the parents to understand what happened is because that’s about how long it took for their kid to learn things about their lives. Assuming the parents weren’t giving him subtle cues, or making the whole thing up, kids know more than they let on. They listen to everything, and they absorb it like little sponges. They’re also highly suggestible, especially when it comes to pleasing mom and dad. It would be more remarkable if their child hadn’t discovered something about the miscarriage in the seven years he spent living with them.
Think about the photos of his grandfather. Humans have an innate ability to recognize faces, even when they’ve been altered. Recognize him, for example? So the parents show him multiple photos of his grandfather, and after a few he can pick him out. Add in the backstory that the parents have been cultivating for 3 years, and the little guy has everything he need to make a positive ID.
Everybody hates a skeptic, but there are a lot of good reasons to think the parents are deluding themselves, probably even some theological ones. If this family’s story is enough to convince you, be prepared to accept the near-death experiences of from every other religion. Does God really work this way, randomly pulling back a little of the curtain without any explanation? Or are near-death experiences the last bastion for the existence of miracles because they can’t be caught on tape?
RightOFLeft on November 19, 2010 at 1:02 PM
And I don’t care . . . your reasons are your reasons. It is a compliment to me.
You don’t understand that calling me “intellectually lazy” is just fine with me. I don’t really care because you really don’t know me. You have no idea why I came to the faith that I hold.
You have no real idea why I so strongly believe in God. You did not go through my spiritual search.
However, I will give you a little insight into me whether it matters to you or not . . . I went through quite a spiritual journey from faith to doubt to faith. When I came to the end of that journey, it came with great joy and a strong belief that life has little or no value without having God in your life. And I also learned clearly about the seeds of doubt.
I cannot prove to you that God is real in the same way you cannot prove to me that that God is not real. There is no physical proof of either set of faith. That is why it is called “faith”.
Voter from WA State on November 19, 2010 at 1:04 PM
Excellent! I love to give compliments :-)
As I said to another self-identified theist, I wish you all the joy and peace of mind or whatever it is that you seek from practicing your faith.
Does it take “faith” to believe that Zeus is not real? Does it take “faith” to believe that Martians don’t exist? Do you care, or do you simply reject the Zeus and Martian theories and live your life without concerning yourself much about the fact that others may believe in them?
MJBrutus on November 19, 2010 at 1:12 PM
Come ON! You people who really can’t see that this kid had 3 years to put this story together are so gullible!
For crying out loud! Wake up people! A god, if he exists, isn’t an explicitly caring one like you like to think else give me a good answer for the Riddle of Epicurus…
SauerKraut537 on November 19, 2010 at 1:12 PM
I mention to my Anatomy students the curious case of Pam Reynolds. During brain surgery, when even her deep stem was being carefully monitored for EEG activity, and was flat-lined, she had conscious sensory perception and memory of OR conversations, as well as descriptions of surgical equipment completely out of her view, along with other typical NDE, etc. NO neurons were depolarizing, her brain was down and out, evidenced by the monitors, so how did her Mind manage to function during this time?? There really is no solid scientific explanation to explain her perceptions during that time period.
Deb on November 19, 2010 at 1:15 PM
I’m not sure I buy that. Miscarriages are personal. They’re the reason some women don’t announce their pregnancies right away, so it doesn’t logically follow that the kid at 7 would be more likely to know about it than not.
I’m not saying it’s proof of anything. I mean, it’s very common for women to have miscarriages, sometimes without even realizing it. So a hallucination of that sort isn’t impossible or even improbable.
If you believe the Bible, then yes, God does, but miracles need not be limited to what we can’t video tape and explain. Those are the ones most likely to convince others, but it doesn’t seem unlikely to me that the Creator would work within his creation in order to accomplish his goals. So while we can scientifically explain how it happened, that doesn’t mean it wasn’t God. That’s why Christians need not believe evolution is a lie in order to believe God is the Creator.
Esthier on November 19, 2010 at 1:19 PM
Come ON! You people who really can’t see that this kid had 3 years to put this story together are so gullible!
For crying out loud! Wake up people! A god, if he exists, isn’t an explicitly caring one like you like to think else give me a good answer for the Riddle of Epicurus…
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
SauerKraut537 on November 19, 2010 at 1:12 PM
———
The fall back/convenient answer of Christians is it ain’t our business why God does what he does.
Dave Rywall on November 19, 2010 at 1:21 PM
They were near enough the tree that God warned them specifically about it based on its location. God had evidently created man with an imperfection that could be quickly exploited by a serpent and bit of fruit. Not a minor imperfection but one that would condemn all men to sin and require the incarnation and death of His divine son.
Why create the tree in the first place?
dedalus on November 19, 2010 at 1:25 PM
MJ, this was in response to a post by SauerKraut537 that had a link to a video, science saved my sole and therefore my response.
Now to what you wrote. I’m not sure science has ever tried to disprove what Muslims or Hindus believe and I’m not sure why they would try. Do I accept what they believe, as to Hindus I am not familiar enough with their religion to comment. As to Muslims I have read some of the Koran and have done studies on it. While I won’t go into details here it is easy enough to find plenty of material to discredit this religion and I would highly suggest that everyone find out as much as they can because this is a real potential problem for the US. Look what is happening in Europe.
As to being able to test things in order to prove them let me ask you this. If your married or have a mate, have you ever been separated from them for a long period of time? During that time did you miss them? Did your heart ache because you missed them so bad? If you answer yes to either one of these than I would ask you to explain that feeling. You can’t see it, you can’t measure it, but you know in your heart that it’s real. My point is that sometimes, some of us believe things because we feel in our heart that they are real. If we are right or wrong in your eyes that’s irreverent as long as we are not doing anything to harm you. It is always the non believers that seem to be the most vocal about the God question.
Lastly, my religion is tested everyday by the most important person I know, ME.
New Patriot on November 19, 2010 at 1:25 PM
If I’m taking the intended inference, you’re making the mistake of assuming God doesn’t exist because if He does His priorities, judgments, decisions, etc. are “wrong” — i.e. different from yours. Not believing in God is your choice; but once we assume, even for the sake of argument, the existence of an omniscient God, how arrogant must you be to assume yourself to know better than He?
A two-year-old thinks candy for supper is “best” and getting to do everything his 9-year-old brother does is “fair”; but the parent knows more, and thus knows that candy for dinner is NOT best, and letting the two-year-old go on the big-kid swings is dangerous. He knows these things — and is correct — even though the two-year-old is CERTAIN he is wrong, unfair, and mean. Likewise, if — as I believe — God is omniscient, then the gulf between my understanding and God’s is far greater than the gulf between a two-year-old and his parent’s.
I’m curious — you seem very much to “gotcha” believers. No one is trying to force anything on you (indeed, these days most Christians are too ignorant of scripture and doctrine to even tell you what THEY believe with any clarity). So why are you so VERY determined to “put us in our place”? And once you see — as you surely must — that most of the Christians on this forum are well-read, and quite grounded in their doctrine, how can you think simplistic little fallacies like this are going to be effective?
RegularJoe on November 19, 2010 at 1:27 PM
When I was about 5 my great grandma died and we were great friends. I had a horrible time with it and cried myself to sleep one night. She showed up in my dreams as a young woman with a handsome young man she lived with and rocked me in her rocking chair, telling me how happy she was and that everything was ok.
I had never met my great grandpa and asked my grandma about him. She showed me a picture of him as a young man and that’s who was with my great grandma! It was so great to have that sense of peace as a little one.
NTWR on November 19, 2010 at 1:28 PM
The riddle is simplistic and talks of a god who has no more perspective than a man.
Esthier on November 19, 2010 at 1:29 PM
But not so personal for this family that it can’t be shared on the news.
It’s just that they conveniently are limited to just instances in modern times.
RightOFLeft on November 19, 2010 at 1:29 PM
How presumptuous of one who has acts like he has no faith, to act like he knows why God does what He does.
I believe the longer you stay here, the closer you will be to letting go of your rage and pain, and finding peace.
God bless you.
Roy Rogers on November 19, 2010 at 1:29 PM
RegularJoe on November 19, 2010 at 1:30 PM
I had an OBE when I died after a gunshot. I didn’t visit heaven (or even leave the hospital)nor did I meet other dead people; but I clearly saw things from two different perspectives simultaneously. (I was watching me above me while also watching me below me at the same time. Hard to explain)
I tried explaining it to other people and they just thought I was nuts. But what I watched was confirmed as what happened, so it’s not like I had a really great dream.
By the way, I consider myself a deist, so no religion holds true to my beliefs. (In case someone wanted to turn it into a religious argument)
ButterflyDragon on November 19, 2010 at 1:33 PM
My state of mind and my emotions are detectable by me, so there is the proof that they exist. They were put to the test and the results observed. The same cannot be said of your deity or just about anyone else’s.
MJBrutus on November 19, 2010 at 1:33 PM
If I’m taking the intended inference, you’re making the mistake of assuming God doesn’t exist because if He does His priorities, judgments, decisions, etc. are “wrong” — i.e. different from yours. Not believing in God is your choice; but once we assume, even for the sake of argument, the existence of an omniscient God, how arrogant must you be to assume yourself to know better than He?
A two-year-old thinks candy for supper is “best” and getting to do everything his 9-year-old brother does is “fair”; but the parent knows more, and thus knows that candy for dinner is NOT best, and letting the two-year-old go on the big-kid swings is dangerous. He knows these things — and is correct — even though the two-year-old is CERTAIN he is wrong, unfair, and mean. Likewise, if — as I believe — God is omniscient, then the gulf between my understanding and God’s is far greater than the gulf between a two-year-old and his parent’s.
I’m curious — you seem very much to “gotcha” believers. No one is trying to force anything on you (indeed, these days most Christians are too ignorant of scripture and doctrine to even tell you what THEY believe with any clarity). So why are you so VERY determined to “put us in our place”? And once you see — as you surely must — that most of the Christians on this forum are well-read, and quite grounded in their doctrine, how can you think simplistic little fallacies like this are going to be effective?
RegularJoe on November 19, 2010 at 1:27 PM
——-
Proof of the it ain’t our place to question why God killed 200 people but spared 5 bullsh*t. Thank you.
Dave Rywall on November 19, 2010 at 1:35 PM
We can play that game, too.
DethMetalCookieMonst on November 19, 2010 at 1:35 PM
How presumptuous of one who has acts like he has no faith, to act like he knows why God does what He does.
I believe the longer you stay here, the closer you will be to letting go of your rage and pain, and finding peace.
God bless you.
Roy Rogers on November 19, 2010 at 1:29 PM
—–
If the answer to the question “why did that priest rape that child?” is God has a plan for that child that we cannot understand, then that God is a horrible horrible entity.
Dave Rywall on November 19, 2010 at 1:38 PM
The fall back/convenient answer of Christians atheists is it ain’t our business why God does what he does that it happened at random, no matter how complex.
Dave Rywall on November 19, 2010 at 1:21 PM
We can play that game, too.
DethMetalCookieMonst on November 19, 2010 at 1:35 PM
——-
That’s a horrible attempt. But thanks anyways. God forgives you for failing.
Dave Rywall on November 19, 2010 at 1:39 PM
It’s entirely possible he didn’t and that the tree is just a metaphor for sin or disobedience of God. But I don’t see how being able to rebel, even against God, is actually an imperfection. Otherwise, what’s the point of any of this? If we’re nothing but pawns created by God to worship him, why even bother creating us? To feed an ego? Surely that’s what hordes of angels singing “holy, holy, holy” accomplishes.
Even if you see the tree as a tree, there’s still no evidence that the tree itself was poisonous, and many believe that it was simply the act of disobeying God that gave Adam and Eve the knowledge of what it is to sin, thus bringing sin into the world. Just because they were tempted by a talking snake doesn’t make them any less culpable just as it doesn’t make the fat terrorist any less a traitor just because bin Laden or someone else said some nice things about him and told him how much it would anger his parents if he joined them in holy jihad.
And ultimately, if we never have the chance to do evil, we cannot have the chance to choose to do good and thus are again no different from the angels. But even in that story, we are told that a full third of the angels did choose evil and rebelled against God, led by his own second in command. These entities were in Heaven, had full proof of God and his power and 0 temptations to turn against him, and yet they did anyway. So it seems ridiculous to focus on a tree that may or may not have even been in a garden that may or may not have existed. The point of the story is that mankind rebelled and therefore brought evil into a world that previously had none, just as the angels did.
As to why God allowed us this opportunity? Again, why not? Even mankind is creating robots with the capacity for deception. Even we see value in creatures that can think for themselves, despite the evil we’ve seen that can come from doing so.
Esthier on November 19, 2010 at 1:44 PM
MJ, read what you just wrote. My response:
My state of mind and my emotions are detectable by me so therefore God exists. Thank for making my point.
New Patriot on November 19, 2010 at 1:49 PM
Again, you do not posses the capacity to understand God. I am truly sympathetic to the pain and anger you carry within you. I understand why you’d rather blame God and not blame Satan for the evil in this world.
All God asks is that you ask Him to forgive you, to love you, and to heal you, in His Son’s name and it will be done.
God Bless You
Roy Rogers on November 19, 2010 at 1:49 PM
I suppose that makes sense to you in some manner. But not to me.
MJBrutus on November 19, 2010 at 1:51 PM
Again, you do not posses the capacity to understand God. I am truly sympathetic to the pain and anger you carry within you. I understand why you’d rather blame God and not blame Satan for the evil in this world.
All God asks is that you ask Him to forgive you, to love you, and to heal you, in His Son’s name and it will be done.
God Bless You
Roy Rogers on November 19, 2010 at 1:49 PM
———
Go tell this garbage to a rape victim and see if your face stays unpunched.
I do not blame God for anything since he does not exist.
Do you believe God wants Obama to be president?
Or do you think God is punishing you/testing you with Obama?
Dave Rywall on November 19, 2010 at 1:54 PM
That’s not what I meant by personal. I simply meant that it’s something they wouldn’t necessarily talk about unprovoked (“Nice weather we’re having. It was like this the day I miscarried my daughter.”). It’s possible it came up in conversation around the 4-year-old (or even the three years later), but why would it? It’s highly unlikely they’d tell him directly unless he’d asked, and it’s highly unlikely he’d ask.
It’s possible that another adult talked to either about it while he was around, but that’s not really probable unless the other adult had recently miscarried herself. And even then, it’s not the kind of thing that women would talk about in front of children but more the kind of thing that a conversation could evolve into after drinks or an already intimate conversation.
It’s not personal to admit that you’ve had one, but it’s a personal thing to discuss in detail without a good reason.
I’m not saying it’s impossible, but I’d be willing to bet that most children 7 or under have no idea if their mothers ever had a miscarriage.
I could be wrong obviously (though I’d be interested to see the poll), but it’s just not the kind of thing women talk about enough that it’s likely that their children have heard about it.
Miracles? No, the Bible is full of them. If anything, modern times have created more skeptics than we had in the past.
Esthier on November 19, 2010 at 1:54 PM
I’m all for knowledge, trees, and fruit. I agree that a world without free will is unappealing. However, is Genesis offering an Eden where knowledge is forbidden and the cause of death. As I read your view, the Fall was what granted us our humanity while Eden would have offered us a drone-like existence.
dedalus on November 19, 2010 at 1:58 PM
You’d be angry too if you had to live in Canada. I mean, America is right there!
(paraphrased joke)
Esthier on November 19, 2010 at 2:00 PM
A rape victim blames the rapist, and finds solace, recovery, and peace in God’s love.
I believe Obama won because a majority in this country voted for him. God also allowed the Israelites to wander in the dessert for 40 years for failing to keep His Commandants. This, and the mid-term elections are a sign from God that America needs to return to being a Christian nation.
May God bless you and ease your pain and suffering.
Roy Rogers on November 19, 2010 at 2:01 PM
It’s the knowledge that comes through experience, not knowledge in the abstract. To say it was forbidden is to say that you’d forbid your daughter to learn first hand what it’s like to be brutally raped. Obviously she can try it, but that doesn’t mean it’s what’s best. There are some things we’re better off knowing.
As to a drone-like experience? I don’t know. That’s not how it’s depicted. My understanding is that Eden was Heaven on Earth. They could commune directly with God the way only those without sin can. But it seems they couldn’t appreciate that without first learning what sin is, just as some can’t appreciate having a roof over their heads until they’ve experienced living without one.
Esthier on November 19, 2010 at 2:05 PM
I believe Obama won because a majority in this country voted for him. God also allowed the Israelites to wander in the dessert for 40 years for failing to keep His Commandants. This, and the mid-term elections are a sign from God that America needs to return to being a Christian nation.
May God bless you and ease your pain and suffering.
Roy Rogers on November 19, 2010 at 2:01 PM
——
Ah, I see.
1
A rape victim must accept that God wanted him/her to be raped because it is part of a plan.
2
Your political leanings/beliefs line up with God’s plan for the nation.
What an incredibly arrogant tiny minded a*s you are.
Dave Rywall on November 19, 2010 at 2:06 PM
Thank you.
Share your pain and it will be lifted.
Roy Rogers on November 19, 2010 at 2:08 PM
Where’d you come up with that from?
DarkCurrent on November 19, 2010 at 2:13 PM
Thank you.
Share your pain and it will be lifted.
Roy Rogers on November 19, 2010 at 2:08 PM
————
Maybe one day you’ll understand how arrogant you are.
Dave Rywall on November 19, 2010 at 2:15 PM
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