Another Pledge of Allegiance outburst sighting in PA-18 debate

posted at 2:06 pm on October 28, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

My favorite part of this report is when the television anchor claims that the Pledge of Allegiance isn’t usually controversial. It’s been controversial for years, which is probably why the League of Women Voters leaves it off the agenda as its default policy. For most of us who regularly attend political events, though, its omission is odd enough to question, and certainly odd enough that campaigns from either party probably wouldn’t think it necessary to request its inclusion on a debate agenda. Via Jeff Dunetz,behold the “ruckus” that the LWV wanted to avoid:

Tim McNulty reported on the latest in unruly mob behavior for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:

A nationwide conservative outcry about the Pledge of Allegiance at political debates touched down in Peters this week, when a crowd at an 18th District congressional forum sponsored by the League of Women Voters charged ahead with the pledge when it was not on the league’s agenda.

U.S. Rep. Tim Murphy, R-Upper St. Clair, and Democrat Dan Connolly were about to give their opening remarks at a debate at Peters Middle School Tuesday when Mr. Murphy asked the moderator if the pledge was being recited. When she hesitated, saying that was “not a usual way” the league started the forums, members of the crowd stood and recited the pledge anyway.

Former Peters High School principal Tom Hajzus was sitting in the front row with a 22-year-old Marine veteran wounded by a bomb in Afghanistan.

“The insensitivity, to me, was inexcusable and outrageous,” said the registered Democrat and Murphy supporter. The crowd’s reaction “was an American moment, that’s what that was,” he said.

Both campaigns in PA-18 said the Pledge isn’t — and shouldn’t be — political, and they’re right.  The League of Women Voters, who have a big market edge in political debates, claim that they don’t put it on the agenda because they want to avoid a “ruckus.”  Take a look at both incidents and see whether a “ruckus” (a “row or disturbance,” according to Merriam-Webster) occurs in either setting.  People politely stood and recited the Pledge and then sat back down at the end, and it only took a few seconds to accomplish. No one who didn’t want to say it appears to have been challenged or rebuked, not even the moderator.

Now the LWV says they will review their policy to see whether the Pledge should be included in future public debates.  It seems that it will, whether the LWV likes ot or not, and they’d be better advised to start planning for it.

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FIVE…..

txmomof6 on October 28, 2010 at 2:11 PM

Unruly Tea Partiers . . .

mwbri on October 28, 2010 at 2:12 PM

Can you describe the ruckus?

Kristamatic on October 28, 2010 at 2:13 PM

Why is this leftist organization hosting debates?

The league works to “secure equal rights and equal opportunity for all, to promote social and economic justice, and to secure the health and safety of all Americans.”

It is pretty funny though to see lefties getting all flustered when they get steamrolled by patriots. conservatives used to be so nice and quiet.

forest on October 28, 2010 at 2:13 PM

League of Women Voters are lefties.

Blake on October 28, 2010 at 2:14 PM

Yes, it is political…just like having debate forums for candidates is political, and having the flag there is political…asking questions of the candidates is political.
But political doesn’t necessary mean it is biased, it just means it is part of the political process.
If you don’t want to participate, then keep your seat and relax, it takes about 30 seconds of your life…

right2bright on October 28, 2010 at 2:16 PM

So you can say the pledge as long as both candidates submit the request in writing beforehand. But don’t question their patriotism.

amerpundit on October 28, 2010 at 2:16 PM

I’m having a hard time believing the LWV doesn’t consider the Pledge a Political thing.

They made it political by refusing to recite the pledge.
They fail to see the connection between the debates for political office and the Pledge of Allegiance.

This is after all, is our government, we’re talking about and not some non-political event.

Kini on October 28, 2010 at 2:16 PM

Every PTSA meeting begins with the Pledge of Allegiance. Not sure why, but I like it.

LASue on October 28, 2010 at 2:16 PM

Don’t wear the USA flag lapel pin.

Don’t recite the Pledge of Allegience.

Don’t include the words “Endowed by their Creator” as in “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights” when reciting the Declaration of Indepence.

Don’t wish that the USA were, and remained, an exceptional, strong, nation.

etc. etc. etc.

All the new wave of anti-US sentiment by many US residents and elitist, snobbish, snarky “leaders” and shakers and movers.

William2006 on October 28, 2010 at 2:17 PM

They’ll be “discussing” this “issue” at their next meeting? What’s to discuss? How to fit in another 20 seconds?

mankai on October 28, 2010 at 2:17 PM

Can you describe the ruckus?

Kristamatic on October 28, 2010 at 2:13 PM

Breakfast Club reference. Nice!

Darksean on October 28, 2010 at 2:18 PM

League of Women Socialists

darwin on October 28, 2010 at 2:18 PM

When the President, Barack Hussein Obama, elected by the people, does not even respectfully place his hand over his heart during the singing of the National Anthem or recitiation of the Pledge of Allegience, etc., and refuses to wear the USA flag lapel pin, and trashes our nation overseas, etc., is it any wonder that the citizens have to resort to just ignoring moderators in community gatherings and stand up and recite the Pledge of Allegience on their own?

If the citizens contniue to kow tow to these knuckle draggers who actively work to drag down such unity and appreciation for our nation, then why would we even consider ourselves a soveriegn nation, or hold any value in its Constitution, its culture, its exceptionalism?

William2006 on October 28, 2010 at 2:22 PM

We’ve got to nip this in the bud! Next thing you know, they will want a prayer!

(Hey Arlene, read the WSJ Shelby Steel op-ed and get a clue.)

PattyJ on October 28, 2010 at 2:22 PM

It’s Goldberg’s Law
No Conservative Charter
Mean it’s Liberal…

Liberals infest all institutions. They burrow in and take over. Unless an organization is explicitly Conservative, the Liberals will evantually seize control and use it toward their ends.

Witness the flap with the VFW PAC.

Haiku Guy on October 28, 2010 at 2:22 PM

Don’t know if this was posted before but here’s a link of the same ‘ruckus’ here in Illinois. Luv it!
http://www.fireandreamitchell.com/2010/10/23/league-of-women-voters-progressive-liberal-moderator-of-joe-walshmellisa-bean-debate-refuses-to-allow-pledge-of-allegiance-crowd-does-it-anyway/

Cpoy2 on October 28, 2010 at 2:23 PM

This first happened a week ago in IL-8 at another LWV hosted forum. The League moderator said she’d been disrespected, forced to say the pledge, and that it had been obviously planned.

kimsch on October 28, 2010 at 2:23 PM

Somewhere, up in heaven, Red Skelton is smiling.

kingsjester on October 28, 2010 at 2:23 PM

Wait, so the pledge of allegiance, which takes no more than 15 seconds to say is seen as a distraction and might cause the debate to “run over in time”?

Bullcrap.

portlandon on October 28, 2010 at 2:24 PM

Might be time for some Mama Grizzlies to join the League of Women Votersall around the country… Just a thought.

Fallon on October 28, 2010 at 2:25 PM

The League of Joy Behar Supporters.

BuckeyeSam on October 28, 2010 at 2:25 PM

Slippery slope, folks.

If people start respecting the flag, pledging allegiance to the Republic for which it stands, and working to ensure America is one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all…then SCARY things could happen!!

Yup, pretty darn controversial!!

Justrand on October 28, 2010 at 2:25 PM

The first one was so amusing because it had the “Excuse me. Excuse me! Excuse me! Excuse me!!!” idiot moderating. The one who wouldn’t be “disrespected” you naughty children!

Marcus on October 28, 2010 at 2:27 PM

Reciting the Pledge is a political act, but it isn’t a partisan political act.

It should serve to remind everyone present of our duty tour country directly before we exercise our rights and assume our responsibilities as citizens and candidates and participants in the debate.

Why are the LWV leadership afraid of this reminder? Do they fear citizens might actually take their duties seriously and exercise independent judgment?

novaculus on October 28, 2010 at 2:30 PM

Liberals have used the threat of “ruckus” to get their way for decades now. People have been willing to offend the 99 civilized to prevent offending the 1 whiny rabble-rouser. It looks like the 99 are finally fed up with it.

This should get interesting.

29Victor on October 28, 2010 at 2:33 PM

Bush League.

Barnestormer on October 28, 2010 at 2:34 PM

I went to Peters Middle School!

This is a new school on the same site, however.

My school was sinking into an old coal mine, so they had to build a new one.

NoDonkey on October 28, 2010 at 2:34 PM

Nothing but boorish faux-patriotism. There’s no custom or statute recommending the pledge of allegiance at the beginning of a debate.

This is going to turn out like those flag pins. Everybody was afraid to be caught without one for awhile, then pretty soon people stopped noticing they were even there. These outbursts are going to kill the pledge faster than Michael Newdow ever could. On second thought, these outbursts are awesome, keep em coming.

RightOFLeft on October 28, 2010 at 2:35 PM

Prediction:
The League of Women Voters “disclaimer” before requesting the pledge will last longer than the pledge itself!

AnthonyK on October 28, 2010 at 2:36 PM

Why doesn’t the League of Women Voters think about where the Pledge will fit in their schedule for the event, when they place the flag on the stage?

wren on October 28, 2010 at 2:38 PM

This is going to turn out like those flag pins. Everybody was afraid to be caught without one for awhile, then pretty soon people stopped noticing they were even there

Ha, Rush just pointed out this fella who never wears one but wasn’t going to be caught without one stumping in West Virginia.

Marcus on October 28, 2010 at 2:38 PM

The LOWV is just pissed that they didn’t get equal time for the State Anthem of the USSR.

esnap on October 28, 2010 at 2:39 PM

these outbursts are awesome, keep em coming.

RightOFLeft on October 28, 2010 at 2:35 PM

This.
Glad you reconsidered the thought.

Badger40 on October 28, 2010 at 2:40 PM

Can you describe the ruckus?

Kristamatic on October 28, 2010 at 2:13 PM

WINNER!!

Dominion on October 28, 2010 at 2:42 PM

NOW and LWV sould join together… The League of Women Socialist Voters!

The Expert Knows

HAExpert on October 28, 2010 at 2:47 PM

They spend more time talking about the “ruckus” than the 15 seconds it takes to say the Pledge of Allegiance.

slug on October 28, 2010 at 2:48 PM

Might be time for some Mama Grizzlies to join the League of Women Voters all around the country… Just a thought.

Fallon on October 28, 2010 at 2:25 PM

This is a great idea, Fallon!

Joining the League of Women Voters needs to become a nationwide trend!

I have personally seen how the League of Women Voters influences the outcome of elections by choosing which races deserve public debates.

In this case, the League protected a liberal incumbent Congressperson who didn’t want to debate, by deciding not to host a debate even though several other candidates in the race were asking for a debate. A LWV official told me that they let the incumbent decide if they want a debate before deciding which debates to host.

New “Mamma Grizzly” members could help the League to review and revise their policies on debates.

wren on October 28, 2010 at 2:52 PM

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Those words are like holy water to a possessed person, for some people.

Pledging allegiance to a flag, when some would prefer to burn it. Pledging allegiance to the Republic, when socialist is what they want. God? The only God they seem to know is Obutthead. Liberty? Justice? Not for much longer.

capejasmine on October 28, 2010 at 2:54 PM

Behold. The “great unwashed” learns to say “Yes. We. Can.”

bofh on October 28, 2010 at 3:04 PM

Is the League of Women voters the female version of the League of Distinguished Gentlemen?

jeffn21 on October 28, 2010 at 3:06 PM

BAH!!! I screwed it up!

Is the League of Women voters the female version of the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen?

jeffn21 on October 28, 2010 at 3:07 PM

Here’s what the League of Women Voters would have allowed …….

“Obama is our leader, mmmmm …… mmmmm …… mmmmmm”

fogw on October 28, 2010 at 3:10 PM

League of Women Voters: The Pledge of Allegiance is a ruckus.

ButterflyDragon on October 28, 2010 at 3:13 PM

Somewhere, up in heaven, Red Skelton is smiling.

kingsjester on October 28, 2010 at 2:23 PM

You did that so well KJ! :-) Amen to that.

sicoit on October 28, 2010 at 3:13 PM

Don’t you all realize that the left wants the flag to go? It stands for American Patriotism, Freedom, God and Country and Free Enterprise. The left stands for “spread the wealth, socialism and more power to big government. Was there a prayer at these meetings? I don’t think so. There were no prayers at Communist events either.

afotia on October 28, 2010 at 3:20 PM

“These darned Americans aren’t letting go of their freedoms
as easily as we thought!” said the Progressive.

hawksruleva on October 28, 2010 at 3:21 PM

I’m sorry but this is funny.

Summary: “We pulled it off and no one was hurt.”

It’s a good thing our founding fathers were just as vigilant about this pledge.

You know, if you dont have this same level of devotion to saying the pledge, you must be a Loyalist, British, Nazi, Socialist, (insert your own infamous association)/sarcasm.

Seriously, this level of devotion to the pledge is idolatrous. Holding to it’s principles are not. The pledge has been modified four times. And our last one is an ultimate arbiter of truth? What if I stood with everyone else and recited only the first pledge? Would I be any less patriotic? Rubbish.

But notice the politicians that snap to attention when it begins being recited. What politician wouldn’t?

Those words are like holy water to a possessed person, for some peopleme.
capejasmine on October 28, 2010 at 2:54 PM

You almost had it. FIFY

Sorry to be so snarky but come on.

shick on October 28, 2010 at 3:23 PM

Like I’ve said before … I really don’t like the plege that much because of it’s “unconditional” tone – but, I say it proudly as long as people understand that I will VIOLATE the hell out of it the first time the government decides to abolish voting or starts rounding up people for internment in concentration camps – or any other similar usurpation of the Constitution.

That said …

This is really an outgrowth of the “Town Halls” where the people “took charge” and wouldn’t be lectured or looked down upon. “You don’t want to say the pledge? That’s fine – uhm, there’s more of us out here than there are of you – so we’re saying it!”

I like this trend in America – it means the majority is now VOCAL.

HondaV65 on October 28, 2010 at 3:24 PM

I liked the elderly veteran who struggled to stand up but up he went and up his hand went in a salute. God bless him!

Mr_Magoo on October 28, 2010 at 3:34 PM

I like this trend in America – it means the majority is now VOCAL.

HondaV65 on October 28, 2010 at 3:24 PM

Indeed! It has taken lefties completely by surprise, which is why those like Joyless Behar have turned rabid.

Mr_Magoo on October 28, 2010 at 3:36 PM

What’s next? The Wave?

Mr_Magoo on October 28, 2010 at 3:38 PM

How dare all those unwashed unruly peons offend the “America isn’t really so great” crowd?

katiejane on October 28, 2010 at 3:43 PM

Behold. The “great unwashed” learns to say “Yes. We. Can.”

bofh on October 28, 2010 at 3:04 PM

I like this trend in America – it means the majority is now VOCAL.

HondaV65 on October 28, 2010 at 3:24 PM

Indeed! It has taken lefties completely by surprise, which is why those like Joyless Behar have turned rabid.

Mr_Magoo on October 28, 2010 at 3:36 PM

Yes, yes and yes. THIS is why the tea partiers cause fear and loathing in Washington and in libs’ hearts. People watching, and aware, can’t be controlled like docile sheep? Terrifying!

inviolet on October 28, 2010 at 3:43 PM

What’s next? The Wave?

Mr_Magoo on October 28, 2010 at 3:38 PM

Exactly.

shick on October 28, 2010 at 3:44 PM

how dare they…!

ted c on October 28, 2010 at 3:47 PM

Yeah, for now, I see it as rebelling against our socialist overlords.

Can you hear us now? Silent no longer.

juliesa on October 28, 2010 at 3:48 PM

I went to Peters Middle School!

This is a new school on the same site, however.

My school was sinking into an old coal mine, so they had to build a new one.

NoDonkey on October 28, 2010 at 2:34 PM

I went to the old one too. I think mine was the last class before it fell into the ground. Anyway, it is unbelievable that anyone would protest saying something as simple as the pledge.

Bison91 on October 28, 2010 at 3:51 PM

I went to my local LWV site and found many bizarre things such as a “Toolkit for Climate Change” including “action plans and resources to build grassroots support for strong action on climate change at the state and federal levels, including eventual ratification of an effective international (my emphasis) climate agreement.

Also:

“Volunteers Needed

“Here is an opportunity for you to help the November election run smoothly, while helping our League at the same time. Each election day, the County Clerk asks the League to provide election day assistance by picking up provisional ballots at voting sites.

“In return, the League receives payment for this service which makes a significant financial contribution (my emphasis) to the League’s work.

“Each volunteer is assigned about 10 polling sites to visit and pick up any provisional ballots. After visiting all the assigned sites, the volunteer returns the ballots and information to the county clerk’s office in XXXXX. The task usually takes about 2 to 2 1/2 hours and volunteers are reimbursed for their gas mileage…”

Hmmm…

Fallon on October 28, 2010 at 3:57 PM

Gandhi defeated the Royals, the Rajah,peaceful resistance with verbal outbursts drives the elite NUTS.Since a large portion of the current DC crop is nuts it is fun to push em even further into the halls of Bedlam.
Driving the crazy even more crazy,fun to do.
We all also are going to be Amish so we can opt outa obamacare.

Col.John Wm. Reed on October 28, 2010 at 4:03 PM

LWV is a leftist advocacy group hiding behind a “nonpartisan” non-profit front.

HOWEVER, their leftist political action wing shares office space, employees, and even at one time a PO Box with the “non-profit org,” so you know how far that “independence” goes.

Adjoran on October 28, 2010 at 4:13 PM

The League of Woman voters are nothing more then Femanazi’s….

hawkman on October 28, 2010 at 4:26 PM

“He’s right. B!tches be crazy.”

- Dr Sheldon Cooper (The Big Bang Theroy)

mechkiller_k on October 28, 2010 at 4:27 PM

Ruckus like it’s 1773!

Shy Guy on October 28, 2010 at 4:40 PM

It’s a shame that all these candidates are so institutionalized that they can’t even lead the Pledge of Allegiance.

Did you hear that thing about Murphy? About Walsh?

No? You know why? Because they’re simpering followers.

A leader doesn’t wait to see what the AUDIENCE is doing. A leader grabs the mic and says, “Lady, it’s the Pledge of Allegiance to the greatest country on the planet. We can take 30 seconds to say it.” And then the leader leads the pledge of allegiance.

And that man or woman, Democrat or Republican, would quite rightly be in the far lead of whatever district he or she was in.

Instead, we have politicians that are judging the political wind – is the audience going to? Aren’t they going to? Walsh is the worst, because it’s CLEAR that he wants to get up and do it,a nd it’s clear that he’s watching to see what the audience is doing.

Republican candidates – Don’t just be men and women, be LEADERS of men and women. “Ladies and Gentlemen, if you’ll excuse me a second, I’m going to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Feel free to join in.” Then stand and do it.

This is why Chris Christie is popular. Because he’s not a follower. He’s not institutionalized. He’s got a backbone, he’s got an opinion, and he’s going to give you a taste of both. He wants smaller government, and he’s principled. This is why so many red-blooded Americans love him, despite any of his other opinions. And this is why we need more like him. Not like him in opinon, but like him in character.

This like this always really drive this point home for me.

apollyonbob on October 28, 2010 at 4:44 PM

Also, what I wouldn’t give for an edit function.

apollyonbob on October 28, 2010 at 4:45 PM

Clinton was on PA-3–I posted the link at the Rove thread, but here it is just in case. Why was he four minutes away from home, stumping for Dahlkemper who’s more than 10 points down in the polls?

Another question: Has a vice-president never left the airport to stump for a candidate, and just hold the mini-rally at an airport hangar?

His private jet was blocked by two trucks, looked like two moving trucks. Look at the pics, he’s getting old!

ProudPalinFan on October 28, 2010 at 5:02 PM

Paging Tony737:

I forgot to add that the hangars here are mostly used for Cessna’s, FedEx Feeders, helicopters, military choppers and med-size military and passenger planes.

I guess the technique here is same as used in Puerto Rico for rallies: Pack people in small locations so the rally looks it had a huge gathering.

ProudPalinFan on October 28, 2010 at 5:08 PM

The LWV has lost my respect. Shame on them. There should be no discussion about patriotism.

madmonkphotog on October 28, 2010 at 5:32 PM

Gathering in a public space?
Is a flag present?

Say the pledge!

How hard is this, really?

(Then again, I stand and address the flag when the high school band practices the star spangled banner, so what do I know.)

massrighty on October 28, 2010 at 5:56 PM

Glad to see conservatives endorsing fascist state worship. Some rugged individualists you all are.

AJB on October 28, 2010 at 7:32 PM

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/feature/2009/11/16/pledge_of_allegiance

The Pledge of Allegiance was written by a self-proclaimed “Christian Socialist.” You are all celebrating collectivism.

AJB on October 28, 2010 at 7:34 PM

These liberals are just amazing in their contempt for wholesome American traditions, aren’t they?

Let’s keep pressing them, giving no quarter, until manisfesting pride in our country becomes mainstream again.

“Discuss it” my a$$!

disa on October 28, 2010 at 7:57 PM

The LWV forum in the MD 1st district did not have the Pledge. My wife question it but we did not have a outburst about it and it was not said; shame on us. I believe we would if it was held now after Mr. Ptak’s patriotic action.

Note that veterans can salute during the Pledge under an amendment to the 2010 defense appropriations bill.

amr on October 28, 2010 at 10:53 PM

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/feature/2009/11/16/pledge_of_allegiance

The Pledge of Allegiance was written by a self-proclaimed “Christian Socialist.” You are all celebrating collectivism.

AJB on October 28, 2010 at 7:34 PM

And Yankee Doodle was written to mock Americans but we own it proudly now.

If there is some part of the pledge that is collectivist, please point it out.

onthego on October 29, 2010 at 12:04 AM

“The peasants are revolting!”

Why yes, yes we are.

RickZ on October 29, 2010 at 1:02 AM

It is pretty funny though to see lefties getting all flustered when they get steamrolled by patriots. conservatives used to be so nice and quiet.

forest on October 28, 2010 at 2:13 PM

And we see where it’s gotten us. One step right and three steps left. We’ve had enough of that. We’re not violent and we’re not bigoted. We’re just not silent anymore.

Extrafishy on October 29, 2010 at 8:19 AM