Jan Brewer: Why are foreign governments submitting briefs in the DOJ’s lawsuit against Arizona?

posted at 7:41 pm on October 6, 2010 by Allahpundit

Maybe I’m mellowing with age but this strikes me as less unreal now than it did a few months ago. A question for the lawyers in the audience: There’s nothing unusual about foreign nations chipping in with amicus briefs on U.S. legal matters, is there? In two minutes of googling, I found this Supreme Court amicus submitted by the European Union in a death penalty case arguing that international consensus opposes executing criminals under 18. Their stake in that matter is surely less than Mexico’s et al. in how Arizona treats its citizens who are here illegally, no?

What’s really unreal is that the governments who submitted briefs thought it was a good idea to do so. Whatever marginal legal benefit an amicus filing will bring is surely outweighed by the hugely damaging PR from the perception that they’re meddling in U.S. immigration matters, no? And given how expertly Brewer’s been using this issue for political gain over the past eight months, it was a no-brainer that she’d end up rubbing their faces in it.

The move comes in response to a 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling issued Monday, allowing nearly a dozen Latin American countries — Mexico, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Costa Rica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Peru and Chile — to submit friend-of-the-court briefs in Justice’s challenge to SB 1070, which Brewer signed into law in April and is considered one of the nation’s toughest immigration-enforcement measures.

“As do many citizens, I find it incredibly offensive that these foreign governments are using our court system to meddle in a domestic legal dispute and to oppose the rule of law,” the Republican governor said in a statement shortly after the state’s motion was filed Tuesday evening.

“What’s even more offensive is that this effort has been supported by the U.S. Department of Justice. American sovereignty begins in the U.S. Constitution and at the border,” she added. “I am confident the 9th Circuit will do the right thing and recognize foreign interference in U.S. legal proceedings and allow the State of Arizona to respond to their brief.”

Politico notes that this argument should resonate with conservatives, who worry about U.S. courts applying foreign law to decide cases. Normally that’d be true, but not this time: If the feds want to start following the Mexican government’s lead on how to enforce immigration law, most righties will find that an intriguing possibility.

Latest Rasmussen poll, by the way: Brewer 55, Goddard 39. After this, figure she hits 60 next week?

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Any truth to the rumor that Gov. Brewer made the ridiculous claim that she could see Mexico from Arizona?

…wait, wrong thread..kinda…er..I mean…

Knott Buyinit on October 6, 2010 at 10:49 PM

Nobody is hung up on anything.

They’re telling you that the argument is weak, and it is.

blink on October 6, 2010 at 10:48 PM

Great, well you should phone the AG of Arizona and explain to them how weak it is, because the DOJ is using the same argument. Apparently the argument is so weak that they obtained a preliminary injunction from the district court judge preventing the law from going into effect.

crr6 on October 6, 2010 at 10:52 PM

If the feds want to start following the Mexican government’s lead on how to enforce immigration law

Now wouldnt that be quite the unintended consequence.

DOH!!!

Koa on October 6, 2010 at 10:58 PM

The people of the country could hate Teddy Roosevelt.

LOL. Ok, that’s enough for tonight. Til next time, “blink.”

crr6 on October 6, 2010 at 11:02 PM

I apologize. I did not mean to appear pompus. I also did not mean to denigrate the posters. I guess I got carried away trying to get out the Constitutional facts.

Apology accepted. Happens to the best of us.

I have found from the postings on many blogs and threads that there is a lot of opinion about what the Constitution says, and a lot of it is heresay. We all know most of the liberals (including the Consitiutional scholar and president) don’t know what the Constitution says.

Just curious, did you mean hearsay? Or heresy? I only ask because both words seem to apply.

We have a SCOTUS that is parsing the meaning of “is” or “shall”.

I’m not sure that having them parse the definitions is the problem – in fact, I often wish that they were a bit more precise. It’s when they play fast and loose with the text (“public use” becomes “public purpose”…) that we run into trouble.

It is hard to counter that when some conservatives don’t really know.

Go out on Amazon and buy a copy, before it goes down the memory hole.

Old Country Boy on October 6, 2010 at 10:31 PM

Agree 100%. And/or you can bookmark it.

RINO in Name Only on October 6, 2010 at 11:06 PM

RINO in name only:

That is what I meant. They (SCOTUS) seems to apply uptime meanings to downtime words. We even have several SCOTUS members (I won’t dignifying them by the title of “justice”) who think the American Constitution and law should be what foreign courts say they are. (as recently as two weeks ago)

You are right, but I meant Heresay – accepting what someone else says, instead of looking at the best evidence – the constitution itself.

Old Country Boy on October 6, 2010 at 11:22 PM

Old Country Boy on October 6, 2010 at 10:31 PM

Thanks for tending to business while I was playing around. I come hear to learn and I greatly appreciate posts in which people share their knowledge of The Constitution and the law. Again, thanks.

Gang-of-One on October 6, 2010 at 11:31 PM

Just joining … please tell me you guys didn’t turn this red meat post into yet another stoned BS session with some over-moist liberal law school student?

You did, didn’t you? Oh, good grief…

Jaibones on October 7, 2010 at 12:04 AM

It wouldn’t be an “Arizona” topic without the sage counsel of crr6…

/s

Khun Joe on October 7, 2010 at 12:15 AM

The United States almost never became the United States for the fear that a federal government would trample State Sovereignty. The very reason that we went through a civil war. If the federal government steam rolls Arizona on illegal immigration, there is a good chance of the same out come. I have often wondered if the US military would ever really fire on US citizens.

Badbrucskie on October 7, 2010 at 1:13 AM

It wouldn’t be an “Arizona” topic without the sage counsel of crr6…

/s

Khun Joe on October 7, 2010 at 12:15 AM

Remember guys, no one outside of Manhattan is allowed to have an opinion on Park 51, but it’s totally cool for other countries to care about Arizona’s immigration policy. Why? Beats me. Ask bumbling liberal hypocrite crr6.

Alternatively, you could ask bumbling pseudo-centrist hypocrite ernesto.

Good Solid B-Plus on October 7, 2010 at 1:30 AM

You think that just because a law is on the book, the government needs to expend every resource possible to enforce it 100% of the time, logical-allocation-of-resources be damned. If that were the case, we’d all have 10,000 jaywalking tickets.

crr6 on October 6, 2010 at 10:38 PM

No, we just think that immigration laws are actually important and should be enforced. You disagree because you’re amped up about the prospects of a new amnesty and an influx of millions of Democratic voters.

Good Solid B-Plus on October 7, 2010 at 1:38 AM

And given how expertly Brewer’s been using this issue for political gain over the past eight months, it was a no-brainer that she’d end up rubbing their faces in it.

Say what? Brewer’s been using this issue for political gain? Why how squishy of you, and completely unfounded as well. It is the Feds who have been making political hay of this issue (and now, with these amicus filings, foreign governments as well). Gov. Brewer is defending her state and its citizens from the malfeasance of our Federal Government. Do you not think the Government, and certain members of our highest court, will take under advisement the amicus briefs provided by the hypocritical governments south of our porous border?

Sheesh, what a bunch of mealymouthed crap written with those ‘Brewer’s been using this issue for political gain’ crapola. Do you honestly think Brewer wanted to have a showdown with the Feds, or just wanted the Feds to do their d*mn job when it comest to illegal immigration/invasion?

I have to wonder when AP’s jump over to Kos will come, what with ridiculous and unsubstantiated statements like the one quoted. Because we all know ridiculous and unsubstantiated statements are the metier of the shtooopid left. (See any of the myriad of crr6′s postings here.)

Why try to do it state by state, when everyone knows that the federal government has plenary powers over immigration matters?

crr6 on October 6, 2010 at 9:55 PM

Except when the Feds abdicate such plenary powers by doing nothing to enforce existing laws. But you knew that, didn’t you?

RickZ on October 7, 2010 at 6:49 AM

The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling issued Monday should be viewed as grounds for finally issuing some sort of censoring against them; that and their completely insane ruling in 2001 that the Pledge of Alligence is unconstitutional!

Why does anyone take what this confederacy of dunces has to say about anything seriously?

pilamaye on October 7, 2010 at 8:01 AM

Build a consensus. Get people to agree with you and get them to vote. That’s how democracy works.

crr6 on October 6, 2010 at 10:03 PM
MULL THIS OVER
3 November will answer a lot of this.
States do have rights and if the feds can not or will not act states can and do litigate. Lots of really bad new deal stuff died in court as will a lot of the poor stuff boma has jammed down.
ALSO
This is why we vote instead of shooting it out as do so many of the banana republics who have filed briefs.

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Col.John Wm. Reed on October 7, 2010 at 8:16 AM

If that were the case, we’d all have 10,000 jaywalking tickets.

crr6 on October 6, 2010 at 10:38 PM

I understand that you do not seem to think we have a problem when millions of illegals come to this country undocumented & stay here doing God knows what.
But this man has it correct:

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Col.John Wm. Reed on October 7, 2010 at 8:16 AM

So WHY is this being ignored?:

Section 4 – Republican government

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

The FEDS have FAILED in their duty.
And this is a major duty.
And since jay walking tickets are the problem for LOCAL law enforcement, I am less worried about every jay walker getting a ticket than I am in worrying about how the Feds are not protecting the states from an invasion.
You come here & try to use previous cases in law to argue things that do not need argued against.
The Const is very clear on this point.
The state of AZ should NEVER have had to pass this law when they should have been using their National Guard etc to stem the invasion of their borders.
The Fed Govt has FAILED. The states, and the people that make them up have the right & the DUTY to rise up & ALTER or even ABOLISH this perversion that has grown into what we know now, through ANY means available to them.
None of your court cases means ANYTHING in regards to this.

Badger40 on October 7, 2010 at 8:30 AM

Let’s face it. It’s Obama’s Department of Justice vs. America.

kingsjester on October 7, 2010 at 8:46 AM

AZ incurs costs fighting these lawsuits. This is the same plan used against Sarah in AK and why she had to leave office. She couldn’t afford to fight the frivolous ethics charges and still be able to effectively manage government business. The regime is hoping AZ will at some point give up and repeal the law, elect a dem governor and get back in line.

Kissmygrits on October 7, 2010 at 9:05 AM

I wish the Court would ask the Mexican Government official about their position on the US-Mexico border fence being Racist, but the Mexican Government is building a Mexico-Guatemala border fence, and that is not racist, but necessary to “prevent the free passage of illegal immigrants.”

barnone on October 7, 2010 at 9:10 AM

Face it this current bunch of hacks will not defend the country.
Big sis was on TV this morning and said they might look into Wittman’s maid to see what to do about her lying on Federal documents. They will study this then give her asylum like bo’s auntie.
All of them took an oath to defend this Nation and Constitution and all of the hacks need to be gone.

Col.John Wm. Reed on October 7, 2010 at 9:19 AM

Arizona is getting money from a lot of folks to fight the case.The scientoligists busted the IRS legal budget with lots of lawsuits over their loss of tax exempt status. The IRS caved in.
If we all sue for enforcement the same thing might happen.

Col.John Wm. Reed on October 7, 2010 at 9:22 AM

We the People of the United States

The Framers were an elite group — among the best and brightest America had to offer at the time. But they knew that they were trying to forge a nation made up not of an elite, but of the common man. Without the approval of the common man, they feared revolution. This first part of the Preamble speaks to the common man. It puts into writing, as clear as day, the notion that the people were creating this Constitution. It was not handed down by a god or by a king — it was created by the people.

Col.John Wm. Reed on October 7, 2010 at 9:28 AM

AP said:
Whatever marginal legal benefit an amicus filing will bring is surely outweighed by the hugely damaging PR from the perception that they’re meddling in U.S. immigration matters, no?

Liberals don’t care about PR, they care about changing the law of the land.

jnelchef on October 7, 2010 at 10:07 AM

We are on the same page, Colonel, sir. Read my bloglinked earlier or just click my name.

kingsjester on October 7, 2010 at 10:07 AM

Foreign morons have no rights under the Constitution, plain and simple. The DOJ needs to, but won’t, tell them to pound sand.

ultracon on October 7, 2010 at 12:42 PM

Even if they don’t go to war, the federal government still has to deal with the strained relations resulting from state immigration policies.

crr6 on October 6, 2010 at 9:57 PM

That’s ridiculous. Strained relationship? How is the relationship strained when they agree with our federal government? Their relationship is only strained to one specific state, not the country as a whole.

Or do you propose to set a precedent that, for example, a corporation decided to quit doing business with another country and it pissed them off, the government should intervene and fix the “strained” relations?

ButterflyDragon on October 7, 2010 at 12:43 PM

Maybe I’m mellowing with age but this strikes me as less unreal now than it did a few months ago. A question for the lawyers in the audience: There’s nothing unusual about foreign nations chipping in with amicus briefs on U.S. legal matters, is there? In two minutes of googling, I found this Supreme Court amicus submitted by the European Union in a death penalty case arguing that international consensus opposes executing criminals under 18. Their stake in that matter is surely less than Mexico’s et al. in how Arizona treats its citizens who are here illegally, no?

Seems to me that it’s inappropriate for foreign governments to be “meddling” in border control/immigration issues. They have too much personal stake in it. That is unlike a death penalty case, where they could claim they are disinterested, if not uninterested, observers.

tom on October 7, 2010 at 2:09 PM

Lucky Arizona doesn’t have any lakes to share with the MEXICAN PIRATES (like Tejas)…….

……Jan you’re obviously just a Colonial invading AMERICA LOVER, and you hate the people of Aztlan (the real Natives of Arizona).

PappyD61 on October 7, 2010 at 2:12 PM

Okay, submit all you want but do not be surprised when the majority of Americans deeply resent it. These countries, many of who cannot even intelligently run themselves, want their opinions to be heard!! It’s downright insulting and I, for one will never forgive the Obama Justice Dept or Obama for this. It’s bad enough that our own government is beating up on it’s own citizen, but it’s even worse when outside bullies are allowed into the fight.

jeanie on October 7, 2010 at 2:15 PM

PappyD61 on October 7, 2010 at 2:12 PM

Check out the genetic make-up of Hispanics in the Americas.
It’s a gaff that these people think they have some kind of more superior right to be here than those of more direct European ancestry do.
Hispanics groups have lots of ‘white’ in them, & yet they get a non-white status.
Read up & enjoy their ignorant hypocrisy.

Badger40 on October 7, 2010 at 2:30 PM

Unless Mexico, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Costa Rica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Peru and Chile have open border policies, they need to amicably STFU.

How much more completely hypocritical can these [expletive deleted]s get?

Penalties for noncompliance with Colombian immigration laws include fines for employers and employees for each violation, deportation and/or expulsion of foreign nationals who violate the terms of their stay, and possible criminal liability for the host entity and its foreign national employees.

In Bolivia, I think they just shoot your sorry illegal behind.

NTXLass on October 7, 2010 at 2:51 PM

Even if they don’t go to war, the federal government still has to deal with the strained relations resulting from state immigration policies.

crr6 on October 6, 2010 at 9:57 PM

Ha. Never mind the federal government’s strained relationship with the people of Arizona.

Perhaps Mexico should worry a little more about straining their relationship with the US by encouraging illegal immigration, no?

Scrappy on October 7, 2010 at 3:07 PM

crr6, how about the FACT that all the AZ law does is REQUIRE their law enforcement officials to enforce the FEDERAL law?

Geeez, like shooting fish in a barrel.

PJ Emeritus on October 7, 2010 at 4:17 PM

So does this mean we (AZ) can send these countries a bill for the costs of their citiznes here?

Moose, Rocco!!! Help Mexico, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Costa Rica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Peru and Chile find their check book!!!

VikingGoneWild on October 7, 2010 at 8:07 PM

Great, well you should phone the AG of Arizona and explain to them how weak it is, because the DOJ is using the same argument. Apparently the argument is so weak that they obtained a preliminary injunction from the district court judge preventing the law from going into effect.

crr6 on October 6, 2010 at 10:52 PM

LMAO!

The Arizona Attorney General is Terry Goddard, who is a Democrat running for governor against Jan Brewer. I know who he would side with, in this…and so do you!

But this thread has nothing to do with some liberal judge blocking the law from going into effect, but everything to do with foreign countries, most of whom have much stricter immmigration laws, dictating to us what we can do with our immigrants.

Your argument about states not being prohibited to enforce federal laws due to possible “pissing off neighboring countries,” is about the weakest I have ever seen on a political blog…and I’ve been on lots of blogs over lots of years.

JannyMae on October 7, 2010 at 10:20 PM

Sovereignty is defined as supremacy of authority of rule as exercised by a sovereign or sovereign state (country) or complete independence and self-government. America was established by our Founding Fathers as a sovereign nation, a Republic whose citizenry elect their peers to representative the citizens of this country and protect them from threats, foreign and domestic. So far, this administration and the sycophantic Congress has been an epic failure in the performance of their duties.

kingsjester on October 7, 2010 at 11:08 PM

Maybe since we have a surplus of underemployed lawyer types they might want to file briefs outlining the human rights abuses of the banana republics and ask the court to refer the countries to the OAS. Then the court could chuck out the brief for lack of credibility. Next Arizona can haul all the meddlers into court and sue for loss due to the expense of keeping illegals. Does not matter if win or loose just underemployed lawyers seeking fame.Runs up the bill for the Latins and the local matricular office. Finally congress just deducts the cost of all this from our UN “contributions” and sends Arizona and Texas the cash so that the states can hire Blackwater to clean up the border.

Col.John Wm. Reed on October 8, 2010 at 9:55 AM

I’ve got two words for those foreign governments: BUTT OUT!

Ward Cleaver on October 8, 2010 at 10:22 AM

is surely outweighed by the hugely damaging PR from the perception that they’re meddling in U.S. immigration matters, no?

How’s that any different from us meddling in other countries affairs, day in and day out?

Does the CIA meddle much? Iran Contra? Bosnia? Taiwan?

(((((((((( “Hello Buehler!!” )))))))))))

Mcguyver on October 8, 2010 at 7:29 PM

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