Obama to Koran-burning pastor: Think of the troops

posted at 4:12 pm on September 9, 2010 by Allahpundit

A partial list of people who’ve weighed in thus far on Terry Jones’s publicity stunt turned mega-clusterfark: The U.S. Secretary of State, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, the presidents of Afghanistan and Indonesia, the prime minister of Iraq, the home minister of India, the Pakistani ambassador to the U.S., the FBI, Interpol, the Vatican — and now, inevitably, the president of the United States. What this is, basically, is a global hostage situation, and while Obama (and Petraeus, and Romney) is making a shrewd rhetorical move by framing this as a plea to protect the troops, the danger obviously goes far beyond that. You’re not seeing Indian ministers opine here because they care about U.S. soldiers, and needless to say, if there’s anyone in the world who’s capable of handling himself against a threat, it’s an American G.I. with a M-16. The real worry is that unarmed civilians are going to die somewhere — in Afghanistan or Europe or Indonesia or Africa or, heaven forbid, here at home — because there are now enough Muslim fundamentalists spread around the world that realistically no one is safe. The “do it for the troops” gambit is essentially just a clever smokescreen aimed at appealing to Jones’s sense of patriotism. And it might work: He told USA Today earlier that a direct request from Obama to stand down would “cause us definitely to think it over.” Well, here’s the official request, which might be followed by a phone call from The One himself to Jones. (How’s that for creating a perverse PR incentive?) Frankly, at this point, Jones might as well drop the idea and declare “victory.” If he’s trying to make a point about “the dangers of radical Islam,” he can just point to the list of hand-wringing statesmen above and declare that the point has already been made. No need to actually strike a match.

I’m not going to rehash my objection to criticizing free speech on grounds that it poses a risk to soldiers, so let me make a few other points instead. First, to Robert Gibbs: No, burning the Koran doesn’t go against “every one of our values.” Book-burning is a repulsive means of protest but it’s as much a First Amendment matter as flag-burning is. Breathe into a paper bag, Gibbsy. Second, to Obama (and Petraeus and Romney): No, burning the Koran does not “endanger our young men and women in uniform who are in Iraq, who are in Afghanistan.” The reaction to burning the Koran is what endangers our men and women in uniform (and everyone else). This is a crucial point, worth always bearing in mind when speech is met with violence. When you blame a speaker for the violent response to his speech, you absolve the violent actor of the moral choice he made in deciding to act. If you think it’s Jones, rather than some Taliban suicide bomber, who’s a mortal threat to the troops, then presumably you also think Theo Van Gogh got what was coming to him. After all, he knew the risk when he made “Submission,” right?

Third, as tempting as it is to blame the media for giving this crank a megaphone, I’m uncomfortable with doing so. Make no mistake, their behavior’s been typically loathsome. Clearly, they pursued this story in the wake of the Ground Zero mosque kerfuffle in order to buttress their pre-midterm “Islamophobia” narrative — but something went wrong on the way to page one. By calling attention to it, they brought it to the attention of fundies, and now suddenly the worldwide fretting about imminent violence makes the “Islamophobes” look a bit less crazy than before. So now, as Tom Maguire says, they’re trying to climb off the tiger: The AP announced today that it won’t distribute photos or audio of the Koran-burning (if it happens) while Fox News insists that it won’t cover the event at all. This is their way, however belatedly, of denying jihadis easy propaganda from the event. So why, given all that, is it wrong to blame the media? Well, for one thing, doing so would make the same mistake about moral choices that I warned of above. If Jake Tapper covers the Koran-burning and some jihadi filthbag sees the footage and blows someone’s head off in Islamabad, it ain’t Jake Tapper who pulled the trigger. Filthbags have moral agency just like everyone else. The deeper reason, though, is that blaming the media can only encourage them to censor themselves in the future for fear of offending Muslims. American newspapers have already largely suppressed the Mohammed cartoons, and Comedy Central has taken to bleeping Mohammed’s name on “South Park.” And now, already, we have Fox out-and-out refusing to cover news events lest some excitable fundie crank go berserk. Where do we draw that line?


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HMM

Host company pulls plug on Florida pastor’s website
William Amos on September 9, 2010 at 5:16 PM

This is getting creepy.

Monica on September 9, 2010 at 5:18 PM

monkeytoe, if you burn any korans I will have a big bonfire and shout Death to Monkeytoe

faraway on September 9, 2010 at 5:13 PM
And I will do great violence to some cheesecake.

Monica on September 9, 2010 at 5:14 PM

I’ll throw a shoe at somebody.

BobMbx on September 9, 2010 at 5:18 PM

CNN is reporting that Gates called Jones and asked him to call off burn. Jones is traveling to NY to talk to imam.

Monica on September 9, 2010 at 5:17 PM

Monica on September 9, 2010 at 5:19 PM

What this is, basically, is a global hostage situation

BINGO! You are beginning to see with clarity. You seem to be headed in the right direction anyway. Next step – get our troops out of Afghanistan. Maybe go a little all Patton and SAC there first, but get out.

Luka on September 9, 2010 at 5:19 PM

Good essay, Allah. I concur with you.

JKahn913 on September 9, 2010 at 5:19 PM

Dude, they’re moving the mosque.

amerpundit on September 9, 2010 at 5:06 PM

I still think it won’t happen.
Its just a delaying tactic to stop the Pastor…and get the victory splashed in muslim media

macncheez on September 9, 2010 at 5:21 PM

HMM

Host company pulls plug on Florida pastor’s website
William Amos on September 9, 2010 at 5:16 PM

I wonder who’s next. And next after that … … …

Luka on September 9, 2010 at 5:21 PM

Or maybe it’s artificial timelines for withdrawal and rules of engagement which endanger our troops.

Christien on September 9, 2010 at 5:21 PM

I’m still burning some Korans. I’m going to do it anonymously, but I’m going to do it and upload video to youtube. I think others should do the same.

Monkeytoe on September 9, 2010 at 5:10 PM

In light of the news about the mosque, that just seems even more unnecessary.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 5:15 PM

I disagree. Read some of my previous comments. I was initially against burning the koran as giving needless offense. The reaction by the press and by actual gov’t leaders has enraged me. We are now in full dhimnitude – we are now completely subjugated by islam. We must prostrate ourselves and apologize for any potential offense and our elected president must drop everything to address what a private citizen – not even a well known, well connected or influential private citizen – intends to do with private property.

I am enraged by it and we need to start actively insultnig islam in order to right this ship. We cannot give islam this special place above all others in this nation.

I am for burning the koran. I am for many people burning the koran. I am for mass factual drawings of mohammad having sex with 9 year old girl. I am for stating that islam is a religion of violence.

Speak truth to power and insult islam. Enough with the coddling of terrorists and their sympathizers.

Monkeytoe on September 9, 2010 at 5:22 PM

Drudge has a link to a story about the FBI visiting the Koran burning preacher. WTF

Monica on September 9, 2010 at 5:22 PM

That mosque ain’t goin nowhere.

JAM on September 9, 2010 at 5:22 PM

I don’t understand why anybody would think anyone else would die at the hands of muslims because some intemperate pastor burned a few books. I mean, islam is the religion of peace (sorry Christianity, you lost your turn). And as a religion of peace it would have its clergy counsel love and forgiveness and abhorrence of violence even in the face of provocation. So Obama and Petraeus must be islamophobic because they are denying the wellsprings of peace that issue daily from islam, and are characterizing muslims as barbaric hot tempered emotionally unstable human beings who couldn’t live peaceably in society. For shame.

eaglewingz08 on September 9, 2010 at 5:22 PM

The difference between gz mosque and Koran burning is simple: pissed off Americans don’t kill innocent people because we are offended. Obama know this, which is why he feels no need to coddle Jones.

Vera on September 9, 2010 at 5:22 PM

For Pastor’s lips to Obama’s ears

Officials said Friday that National Security Advisor James Jones and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates were involved in the discussions, as the White House condemned the proposed plan as a “monumentally terrible idea.”

The pastor, Terry Jones, had said earlier he would likely call off the event on Saturday’s anniversary of the September 11 attacks if asked to by the administration.

“There are discussions inside the government about what might happen,” said White House spokesman Robert Gibbs, but added that no firm decision had been taken on what action might follow.

William Amos on September 9, 2010 at 5:23 PM

Just shows that the more we think we’re different, the more we’re probably alike. Afghanistan men, Appalachian men, just no asking to “squeal like a pig”.

Jimbo3 on September 9, 2010 at 5:16 PM

You say we, but I want nothing to do with Appalachian men. Plus, I don’t think it was actually rape the way my friend described it. They just don’t see women as sexual, those men anyway.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 5:23 PM

So Petraues and now Obama? have basically said that the status of American troops in Afghanistan is now “officially” that of hostages? Sure sounds that way. Reminds me of Carter and the hostages in Iran back in 1980. Seems like we are advancing … … to the rear.

Luka on September 9, 2010 at 5:24 PM

When a newspaper publishes military secrets, the press & prez don’t say “Think of the troops.”

When a newspaper publishes CIA secrets, the press & prez don’t say “Think of the troops.”

When the MSM publishes photos of Abu Grabe over and over and over and over and over again and then pushes a fake story about a Koran in a toilet or a fake story about torture at GITMO, the press & (then Sen or state Sen) prez don’t say “Think of the troops.”

But now, when someone wants to burn a Koran, now they’re all concerned about the safety of the troops.

Nice.

29Victor on September 9, 2010 at 5:24 PM

I was just getting all enraged and stuff. And now it’s over.

Oh well. Back to RINO hunting.

faraway on September 9, 2010 at 5:09 PM

LOL! Super smooth transition!

Gang-of-One on September 9, 2010 at 5:25 PM

Holy Flaming Korans Batman!

faraway on September 9, 2010 at 5:25 PM

The FBI spent about a half hour talking with Jones, but church spokesman Wayne Sapp would not disclose what they discussed. Agents leaving the church wouldn’t talk to an Associated Press reporter.

Jones said earlier this week that agents have visited him twice since he announced his plans in July, the last visit about two weeks ago.

Monica on September 9, 2010 at 5:24 PM

Again, we are dhimmies. We are even using FBI to coerce a private citizen to serve islam. It is sick and outrageous. Burn a koran!

Monkeytoe on September 9, 2010 at 5:25 PM

Obama to self: Think of the troops.

The Zoo Keeper on September 9, 2010 at 5:26 PM

Speak truth to power and insult islam. Enough with the coddling of terrorists and their sympathizers.

Monkeytoe on September 9, 2010 at 5:22 PM

So now you’re in favor of needless provocation because our culture is too stupid to defend its own morals?

Look, we shouldn’t be bending over backwards for anyone, but that’s our fault, not Muslims’.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 5:27 PM

I honestly don’t know how more people are not enraged by this. By the official U.S. policy of doing everything in its power to protect islam from insult. Official U.S. policy for years has been to grant money (through NEA) to purposefully insult christianity (Piss christ anyone?).

How does anyone not see this as outrageous?

Monkeytoe on September 9, 2010 at 5:27 PM

So now you’re in favor of needless provocation because our culture is too stupid to defend its own morals?

What? Read what your wrote. I am saying burn the koran to defend our values. Our value is that we are not subjects of islam and islam holds no special place in the U.S.

You be a dhimmy and subjugate yourself to islam. Don’t ask me to do it b/c you are scared.

Monkeytoe on September 9, 2010 at 5:29 PM

http://news.ino.com/headlines/?newsid=90920101255

US State Department on Thursday issued a travel alert to Americans traveling overseas, warning them of possible violence over the plans of a pastor of a small church in Florida to burn copies of Koran to mark the anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks.

Warning Americans traveling overseas about the potential for possible anti-US demonstrations in response to the pastor’s plans, the State Department pointed out that such incidents of violence have already taken place countries like Afghanistan and Indonesia.

William Amos on September 9, 2010 at 5:29 PM

How does anyone not see this as outrageous?

Monkeytoe on September 9, 2010 at 5:27 PM

The silent majority will vote, soon.

Schadenfreude on September 9, 2010 at 5:29 PM

Jones said earlier this week that agents have visited him twice since he announced his plans in July, the last visit about two weeks ago.

Monica on September 9, 2010 at 5:24 PM

That’s beyond messed up. Obama wouldn’t lift a finger to change the mosque situation, but the FBI was sent to this one tiny church exercising their 1st Amendment right? WTF!

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 5:30 PM

So now you’re in favor of needless provocation because our culture is too stupid to defend its own morals?

And, who am I provoking? The “moderate” muslims who are “peaceful”? Or the radicals who want to kill and maim regardless of what I do?

If it is teh former adn you think they will become “radicals” b/c of a burnt koran, you are deluding yourself that they were ever peaceful.

Monkeytoe on September 9, 2010 at 5:30 PM

They just don’t see women as sexual, those men anyway.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 5:23 PM

Muslim women: Sperm receptacles

BobMbx on September 9, 2010 at 5:30 PM

BHO is fundamentally changing Americanistan…

d1carter on September 9, 2010 at 5:31 PM

Good post AP. Can’t criticize your analysis. Think you’ve covered the angles. =)

Sultry Beauty on September 9, 2010 at 5:31 PM

Gotta roll. I wonder where I can buy a buttload of cheap used korans?

Monkeytoe on September 9, 2010 at 5:32 PM

We must remember that there are no combat troops in Iraq. Those 50,000 advise and assist soldiers are at extreme risk.

BobMbx on September 9, 2010 at 5:33 PM

How does anyone not see this as outrageous?

Yes. We have demonstrated that we would rather have “security” than liberty. Unfotunately, we have most likely not saved a single life.

Vera on September 9, 2010 at 5:33 PM

Bacon for everyone!!!!! Instead of dropping bombs DROP PIGS!!! WAR WON!

(sorry….bad mood today)

milwife88 on September 9, 2010 at 4:37 PM

EXCELLENT milwife88! tee hee

sicoit on September 9, 2010 at 5:34 PM

I ‘predicted’ something similar to this happening yesterday:

What happens if the pastor at the Florida church, with all the cameras and all the media attention at this ‘event’, strikes the match, places it close to a Koran, then stops, blows it out and says something like, “This is real ‘tolerance’.” And proceeds to talk about what true inclusiveness, etc. is? That would be the most awesome thing he could do.

catmman on September 7, 2010 at 5:43 PM

We’ll see what happens.

If I’m right, then my predictions are 100% more accurate than any this administration has made with the economy.

Kneel before Zod catmman!

catmman on September 9, 2010 at 5:34 PM

That’s beyond messed up. Obama wouldn’t lift a finger to change the mosque situation, but the FBI was sent to this one tiny church exercising their 1st Amendment right? WTF!

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 5:30 PM

The left is very pro-Islam. Obama is very, very left … ergo, very, very pro-Islam. Also very anti-American.

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 5:34 PM

OK I am smoking some ribs this weekend, I know what paper I am going to use to start that fire.

Teleycoman on September 9, 2010 at 5:35 PM

What? Read what your wrote. I am saying burn the koran to defend our values. Our value is that we are not subjects of islam and islam holds no special place in the U.S.

You’re the one who called it needless provocation. That hasn’t changed. The only thing that’s changed your mind is our reaction, which has been beyond pathetic, but that’s our fault, not Islam’s. We have a choice to not bow down to these primitives. No one’s forcing us to do this. These barbarians aren’t powerful. We’re kicking their collective @ss right now.

You be a dhimmy and subjugate yourself to islam. Don’t ask me to do it b/c you are scared.

Monkeytoe on September 9, 2010 at 5:29 PM

Right. You’re going to post a video anonymously as a show of your bravery. Give me a break. Your actions are not more brave than mine, and my reasons for being against this are the same as yours were. I’m no more a dhimmy than you were.

Not everything’s black and white. Just because I disagree with you, while agreeing with your earlier position, doesn’t make me your enemy or a dhimmy or a liberal or whatever people here have accused me of time and again here.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 5:35 PM

Obama is very, very left … ergo, very, very pro-Islam

What is with the left’s love affair with Islam. I just don’t get it. Is it becasue they are united in their hatred of America? If so, the left is increadibly short sighted. Of course, they always are.

Vera on September 9, 2010 at 5:36 PM

Great post Allah. I agree with many, Obooboo could give a flying F***K about the troops. Ahole….
I was reading the other day about another city (I don’t remember where now) that buried dead pigs in the ground where they wanted to build another mosque. The “builders” decided to move it to another area….hmmmmmm

sicoit on September 9, 2010 at 5:36 PM

Through out Obama’s campaign, I heard people complain about visits from the FBI. These weren’t kids on the internet saying how much they want to kill him, but people being telephoned at home by the DNC and given the vote for Obama pitch and not being too pleased about it and telling the caller they would never vote for the ahole. They threatened no one. One woman said when she refused to talk to the FBI, they threatened to go interview all her neighbors to embarass her.

Blake on September 9, 2010 at 5:36 PM

We are looking more and more like Europe.

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 5:37 PM

Pastor: “Now, about that reality show…”

faraway on September 9, 2010 at 5:38 PM

Drudge has a link to a story about the FBI visiting the Koran burning preacher. WTF

Monica on September 9, 2010 at 5:22 PM

And now even the FBI? What would have been next if he had not relented? The SS? The Gestapo? It would seem that all the power of the federal government is being brought to bear against one citizen. I say let’s bring back King George. I am pretty sure the Founding Fathers would prefer him over this any day of the week.

Luka on September 9, 2010 at 5:38 PM

What is with the left’s love affair with Islam. I just don’t get it. Is it becasue they are united in their hatred of America?

Vera on September 9, 2010 at 5:36 PM

Yes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 5:38 PM

The left is very pro-Islam. Obama is very, very left … ergo, very, very pro-Islam. Also very anti-American.

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 5:34 PM

They’re not pro-Islam exactly. They’re pro anything that hates America, specifically minority groups. If Muslims didn’t hate the US and were merely the peaceful religious people we’re always told they all are, then they’d be hated by the Left just as Christians are.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 5:38 PM

I hope nobody puts a koran in the BBQ section at the book store.

Because that would be wrong.

Christien on September 9, 2010 at 5:38 PM

Gotta roll. I wonder where I can buy a buttload of cheap used korans?

Monkeytoe on September 9, 2010 at 5:32 PM

Big Lots????

sicoit on September 9, 2010 at 5:40 PM

And now even the FBI? What would have been next if he had not relented? The SS? The Gestapo?

Luka on September 9, 2010 at 5:38 PM

I’m betting the FBI showed him confidential reports of situations that could be exacerbated if he burned the Koran. I’m sure they sprinkled hyperbole liberally.

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 5:40 PM

You’re the one who called it needless provocation. That hasn’t changed. The only thing that’s changed your mind is our reaction, which has been beyond pathetic, but that’s our fault, not Islam’s. We have a choice to not bow down to these primitives. No one’s forcing us to do this. These barbarians aren’t powerful. We’re kicking their collective @ss right now.

It is no longer needless provocation, it is needed, and the action is needed b/c of our reaction. I’m hoping more people will do it, and do it anonymously. You are still defaulting to “don’t offend islam”. Sorry, but that is true.

If you don’t see the need to take the action b/c of our reaction, then nothing I say will persuade you.

this provocation is needed now more than ever. Everyone should burn a koran and post it to youtube.

And yes, I would do it anonymously. To protect my job and my family. So what? It is the action that matters, not who performed the action.

Everyone frmo this point forward who defaults to not objecting islam is basically saying that islam is in charge. I’m done.

Monkeytoe on September 9, 2010 at 5:42 PM

The only thing that’s changed your mind is our reaction, which has been beyond pathetic, but that’s our fault, not Islam’s. We have a choice to not bow down to these primitives.

Honestly, the fact that Interpol was brought in because a podunk pastor wanted to burn some Korans shows me that terrorists are winning the war.

Vera on September 9, 2010 at 5:42 PM

They’re not pro-Islam exactly. They’re pro anything that hates America, specifically minority groups. If Muslims didn’t hate the US and were merely the peaceful religious people we’re always told they all are, then they’d be hated by the Left just as Christians are.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 5:38 PM

Include in that anti-Christian and anti-Jewish. If you’ll note there’s one common thread that connects Islam and the left … they both seek to destroy Christianity and Judaism. In fact, to me that seems their primary goal.

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 5:44 PM

And for any who think I was serious on my last post no. I would never burn any religious book, even if I disagree with the religion.

Teleycoman on September 9, 2010 at 5:44 PM

Honestly, the fact that Interpol was brought in because a podunk pastor wanted to burn some Korans shows me that terrorists are winning the war.

Vera on September 9, 2010 at 5:42 PM

If AllahPundit is forced to spend one hour developing thoughtful posts instead of posting quick MegMac posts, then the terrorists have won.

faraway on September 9, 2010 at 5:45 PM

Honestly, the fact that Interpol was brought in because a podunk pastor wanted to burn some Korans shows me that terrorists are winning the war.

Vera on September 9, 2010 at 5:42 PM

Exactly. That is why we need to start burning korans en masse. they win b/c they have control over our official reaction. WE give them what they want. We glorify islam.

They want to spread islam and subjagate us to islam. And we are doing it for them out of fear. They are winning. We may kill more of them in Iraq and Afghanistan, but they are winning by controlling our behavior and manipulating us into glorifying islam.

Monkeytoe on September 9, 2010 at 5:46 PM

Dollars to dog droppings the GZM so-called deal is a fake.

Mason on September 9, 2010 at 5:46 PM

Honestly, the fact that Interpol was brought in because a podunk pastor wanted to burn some Korans shows me that terrorists are winning the war.

Vera on September 9, 2010 at 5:42 PM

The first Islamic attempt to conquer Europe was stopped not because the peoples at the time were “tolerant” and understanding of Islam, it was stopped because a man named Charles Martel had a spine of steel and balls to match. He drew a line and butchered them. The survivors fled, only to regroup and spread across Europe again today, as well as here.

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 5:47 PM

A long, long time ago
I can still remember how America used to make me smile
And I knew that if we could hold on to our Founding Fathers
All would be happy for a while
But now it looks like it’s bye, bye Miss American Pie
This may be the day that America did die …

Cheshire Cat on September 9, 2010 at 5:50 PM

It is no longer needless provocation, it is needed, and the action is needed b/c of our reaction.

So we MUST insult all Muslims because we’re stupid idiots who don’t understand our basic freedoms. I don’t see any logic in that. We’re the ones who need a wake up call. It’s not even about the Muslims in this case anymore.

I’m hoping more people will do it, and do it anonymously.

Because it’ll accomplish what exactly? You’ll have to buy a book you don’t earn, thus driving up sales of Korans, in order to gratuitously insult people who aren’t even the target of your protest.

You are still defaulting to “don’t offend islam”. Sorry, but that is true.

You really don’t know me. I just spoke earlier in this thread about how the like to have sex with men. I’m in another thread talking about how the mosque is also a needless provocation that should be moved or canceled. And I passionately support Everybody Draw Mohamed Day and hope Reason (or someone else) hosts one every year.

So, no, it isn’t true.

And yes, I would do it anonymously. To protect my job and my family. So what? It is the action that matters, not who performed the action.

You were the one calling me a coward. We’re both sitting somewhere safely and risking nothing. That was my point.

Everyone from this point forward who defaults to not objecting islam is basically saying that islam is in charge. I’m done.

Monkeytoe on September 9, 2010 at 5:42 PM

That’s completely illogical.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 5:50 PM

Honestly, the fact that Interpol was brought in because a podunk pastor wanted to burn some Korans shows me that terrorists are winning the war.

Vera on September 9, 2010 at 5:42 PM

It shows me that our government is now a terrorist organization.

Luka on September 9, 2010 at 5:54 PM

Include in that anti-Christian and anti-Jewish. If you’ll note there’s one common thread that connects Islam and the left … they both seek to destroy Christianity and Judaism. In fact, to me that seems their primary goal.

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 5:44 PM

I think this is more secondary. The Left loves to remind us of Hitler and accuse us of becoming him. I don’t doubt that they are vehemently anti-Israel, but I don’t think they even think much of Judaism.

Christianity, they pretend to like because they have to, but they seem to only really hate the ones who love their country and what it stands for. They love the ones who pretend that the Bible agrees with all their policies.

I partially agree, but I’m still seeing the major trend as anti-America.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 5:54 PM

And for any who think I was serious on my last post no. I would never burn any religious book, even if I disagree with the religion.

Teleycoman on September 9, 2010 at 5:44 PM

If I was cold enough I would burn hundreds. They are books.

CWforFreedom on September 9, 2010 at 5:55 PM

Esthier- the pastor said this was not an insult to all muslims. IN reality many muslims are making it an insult.

And no I don’t think he should burn the Koran.

CWforFreedom on September 9, 2010 at 5:57 PM

Honestly, the fact that Interpol was brought in because a podunk pastor wanted to burn some Korans shows me that terrorists are winning the war.

Vera on September 9, 2010 at 5:42 PM

I wouldn’t say winning so much as we’re giving up. I can’t wait until Obama is out of office, assuming he was involved in this decision – actually, even assuming he wasn’t.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 5:57 PM

That’s completely illogical.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 5:50 PM

Madam, logic is clearly not your forte.

semloh on September 9, 2010 at 5:58 PM

When a newspaper publishes military secrets, the press & prez don’t say “Think of the troops.”

When a newspaper publishes CIA secrets, the press & prez don’t say “Think of the troops.”

When the MSM publishes photos of Abu Grabe over and over and over and over and over again and then pushes a fake story about a Koran in a toilet or a fake story about torture at GITMO, the press & (then Sen or state Sen) prez don’t say “Think of the troops.”

But now, when someone wants to burn a Koran, now they’re all concerned about the safety of the troops.

Nice.

29Victor on September 9, 2010 at 5:24 PM

Excellent points.

slickwillie2001 on September 9, 2010 at 6:02 PM

We are looking more and more like Europe.

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 5:37 PM

But at least they have a Geert Wilder. What have we got?

semloh on September 9, 2010 at 6:03 PM

I partially agree, but I’m still seeing the major trend as anti-America.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 5:54 PM

The why is Europe rabidly anti-Christian and anti-Jewish? As with everything else, the left has infiltrated religion. The left is busily destroying Judaism and Christianity from within, as well as publicly forcing it into back streets and cellars. The logical continuation of this trend is the elimination of it.

It’s happening all over the world, not just America. The left hates America because it needs to fall. Only America stands in the way of a global victory for the left. Once that happens all religions except Islam will be deemed “unworthy”. The UN itself is virtually a mosque. It caters to Islam, and demonizes Christianity and Judaism.

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 6:07 PM

But at least they have a Geert Wilder. What have we got?

semloh on September 9, 2010 at 6:03 PM

A pastor in Florida?

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 6:07 PM

This whole brouhaha is absurd.

Our national security is compromised via our porous borders. It is jeopardized through the number of aliens, especially those students from Muslim nations, roaming freely with expired visas.

ObaMao is spouting happy h*rsesh*t in that his TUCC was spouting inflammatory rhetoric during his whole period of attendance. Mosques around the nation preach inflammatory sermons and promote sharia law.

Diana West has the situation assessed correctly.

Imam Rauf has thrown down the gauntlet if he claims that moving the Ground Zero mosque is cause for international mayhem. That blackmail is a rather blatant threat that serves as a “go” signal to hotheads who don’t seem to need much to destroy and murder.

When 30-50 people in some obscure, backwater church cause such hubbub in a nation or world as large as ours, then maybe it is time to place directional microphones in America’s mosques. I don’t think that we want to tread down that highway.

onlineanalyst on September 9, 2010 at 6:08 PM

Esthier- the pastor said this was not an insult to all muslims. IN reality many muslims are making it an insult.

I agree that many Muslims are making this an insult and turning it into something that it isn’t, but I don’t believe the pastor. Kinda hard to call Islam evil and then say you’re not intending to insult all Muslims.

And no I don’t think he should burn the Koran.

CWforFreedom on September 9, 2010 at 5:57 PM

We agree.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 6:10 PM

Electing the DOTUS endangered our troops more than the guy in FLA.

Hollywood’s filth is a slap to Muslims everywhere…..where are the stories from the NYT about that?

PappyD61 on September 9, 2010 at 6:11 PM

Madam, logic is clearly not your forte.

semloh on September 9, 2010 at 5:58 PM

Really hurts.

The why is Europe rabidly anti-Christian and anti-Jewish? As with everything else, the left has infiltrated religion. The left is busily destroying Judaism and Christianity from within, as well as publicly forcing it into back streets and cellars. The logical continuation of this trend is the elimination of it.

I disagree but not completely. Religions are useful. Marx knew this.

It’s happening all over the world, not just America. The left hates America because it needs to fall. Only America stands in the way of a global victory for the left. Once that happens all religions except Islam will be deemed “unworthy”. The UN itself is virtually a mosque. It caters to Islam, and demonizes Christianity and Judaism.

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 6:07 PM

I think the reasons they want America to fall have more to do with its superiority than its faith.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 6:18 PM

If the Koran burning is extinguished by the faint of heart and the nutless, ironically the air will be filled with the scent of burnt toast.

It will be a great precedent to shut down all criticism of sacred Islam. Lest it hurt the troops, innocent civilians and of course, the squirrels.

BL@KBIRD on September 9, 2010 at 6:20 PM

But at least they have a Geert Wilder. What have we got?

semloh on September 9, 2010 at 6:03 PM

Seriously? Robert Stacy, South Park, Michelle Malkin, Allah is in the House/Allahpundit, and at one point we had Ayaan Hirshi Ali. And that’s just a partial list right off the top of my head.

We’re not as powerless as some of you are pretending. This is still America.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 6:21 PM

Try this out on both proposals: “He has every right to do what he’s planning to do. We simply question the wisdom of doing so.”
 
I honestly believe that the pastor had no intention of burning a Holy book. I think he just wanted to demonstrate adult behavior in making that sort of decision.

CLaFarge on September 9, 2010 at 6:22 PM

My own personal rough “summation”:

Obama brought in Petraues to try to intimidate this pastor of a very small Christian Church into giving up his constitutional rights. He brought in the Sec of State and the Sec of Def (from what I gather). Reports are that he even sent the FBI to pay him a visit and there are even reports that he even called in Interpol. What would have been next if this pastor of a small Christian Church had not relented / submitted, as he seems to have? SEIC? ACORN? The SS? The Gestapo?

It would seem that all the power of the federal government has been/is being brought to bear against one citizen. I say let’s bring back King George. I am pretty sure the Founding Fathers would prefer him over this any day of the week.

Some have said that it looks like the terrorists are winning. It looks to me like, under Lord Hussein Louie, we have a terrorist Reich.

With Romney and even Sarah Palin siding with then, I do not think even November, 2010, nor November, 2012 is going to save America over the years. Or at least, apparently, things have not yet gotten dire enough for America to wake up before it is to late.

Luka on September 9, 2010 at 6:23 PM

This is still America.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 6:21 PM

Well, the real America is in stasis. We need to pour some cold water on her and wake her up … restore her.

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 6:24 PM

Well, the real America is in stasis. We need to pour some cold water on her and wake her up … restore her.

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 6:24 PM

Your suggestion?

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 6:27 PM

I think the reasons they want America to fall have more to do with its superiority than its faith.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 6:18 PM

It’s intertwined. Destroy faith in America and she will fall. America’s foundation was built on faith in God. Take it away and the foundation crumbles. That is exactly why Beck wants to restore God, honor and integrity, and that is exactly why the left seeks to destroy faith around the world..

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 6:27 PM

Your suggestion?

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 6:27 PM

Education. America’s real history, good and bad. The real truth about God in our founding, the truth about slavery, the thruth about who the democrats really are. The truth will wake America up and it’s already beginning. This electorate will be the most educated and informed on politics and history in decades. Once people start hungering for the truth the battle is almost won.

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 6:30 PM

I think it is stupid to burn the Koran to mark 9/11. However:

How are we ever going to learn to live with the insanity that is Islam? I’m sorry does that sound intolerant? Well it is. I am tired of being tolerant of an obviously insane set of rules.

Books are inanimate objects, they do not breathe, they do not feel pain. Worshiping a book is idolatry as much as worshiping a statue.

But at least they have a Geert Wilder. What have we got?

semloh on September 9, 2010 at 6:03 PM

Glenn Beck goes on vacation and the whole country goes to hell in a handbasket!

Obama can be on vacation as much as he wants, doesn’t make much diff.

petunia on September 9, 2010 at 6:31 PM

Seriously? Robert Stacy, South Park, Michelle Malkin, Allah is in the House/Allahpundit, and at one point we had Ayaan Hirshi Ali. And that’s just a partial list right off the top of my head.

We’re not as powerless as some of you are pretending. This is still America.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 6:21 PM

We do have some, but even my long list would not include most of them.

Allen West, Diana West, Mark Styen, Andrew McCarthy, Jed Babin, Andrew Bostom, Pamela Geller, Ralph Peters, Hugh Fitzgerald, Robert Spencer.

Luka on September 9, 2010 at 6:31 PM

It’s intertwined. Destroy faith in America and she will fall. America’s foundation was built on faith in God. Take it away and the foundation crumbles. That is exactly why Beck wants to restore God, honor and integrity, and that is exactly why the left seeks to destroy faith around the world..

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 6:27 PM

I can see that, but convincing them that their faith is commanding them to do something else is probably more effective.

Education. America’s real history, good and bad. The real truth about God in our founding, the truth about slavery, the truth about who the democrats really are. The truth will wake America up and it’s already beginning. This electorate will be the most educated and informed on politics and history in decades. Once people start hungering for the truth the battle is almost won.

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 6:30 PM

That’s pushing a boulder up a steep hill, but worthy nonetheless.

Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 6:33 PM

I, too, object to the burning of a Koran. Not because I’m afraid of what the followers of the “Religion of Peace” might do, but because it’s just a loathesome thing to do. However, I DO support this guy’s right to do it. If he wants to, let him.

But this crap about protecting people by pleading for this church to not burn it? Pshaw. That is so incredibly lame. By pleading not to do it for fear of the way the followers of the “Religion of Peace” will do is exposing the lie the left has been shoving down our throats: that it is not the Religion of Peace. Everyone–including those who lie and tell us it is–knows the truth. These people are practically wetting their drawers from fear of what will happen should the burning take place.

No one gets upset or worried about what a Christian or a Jew might do when a Bible or a Torah is burned. When people protest over depictions of the Virgin Mary done in feces and dildos made in the shape of crosses, we’re told we have to suck it up because it’s art and people can express themselves any way they want.

But someone draws that fake prophet Mohammad as a dog? Death threats occur. Someone burns a Koran? Buildings get bombed.

Some Religion of Peace.

jedijson on September 9, 2010 at 6:35 PM

A pastor in Florida?

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 6:07 PM

It appears that the Pastor of that small Christian Church in Backwater, Florida was intimated by the full force of a tyrannical government, and it’s lackeys, into giving up his Constitutional rights. I suppose some would say just convinced not to use them, but then that is a distinction without much of a difference.

Luka on September 9, 2010 at 6:42 PM

The “do it for the troops” gambit is essentially just a clever smokescreen aimed at appealing to Jones’s sense of patriotism.

Yeah, and Pastor Jones should yake Obama real serious because he knows Obama said this on the campaign trail.

Our CinC has “always” deeply cared that folks in the US not do stupid things to cause our troops any extra and undue danger.

Stop the planet, I think it’s time to get off. Geez.

hawkdriver on September 9, 2010 at 6:42 PM

Age discrimination. He’s not thinking about those servicepeople who are older than he is.

unclesmrgol on September 9, 2010 at 6:43 PM

“take”

whatever…

I swear I have a typo Gremlin.

hawkdriver on September 9, 2010 at 6:46 PM

unclesmrgol on September 9, 2010 at 6:43 PM

BYW, I feel like I gave you the impression the other day that I’m Jewish. If you did get that impression, sorry for the misunderstanding. I’m a Southern Baptist.

hawkdriver on September 9, 2010 at 6:48 PM

You were the one calling me a coward. We’re both sitting somewhere safely and risking nothing. That was my point

.

Why do you care if we “provoke” islam? B/c you care about their feelings? or b/c you are worried they will do what we know they will do and use it as an excuse to maim and kill?

You are not risking nothing. By defaulting to treating islam as the de facto official religion, which you do by worrying about whether or not i burn a koran, you are risking america. It doesn’t matter if you are anonymous or not – ideas matter. I said you were scared and were being a dhimmy. I did not say yhou are a coward.

Saying we need to prove a point and burn korans is not illogical. You just aren’t able to grasp the point, which is pretty simple. If we want to prove that we have not been subjugated to islam, we do something to prove it – burn korans. You may disagree with the idea, but that does not make it illogical. I have never rioted or protested when christianity was insulted, which happens almost daily. So, i could care less that the alleged moderate muslims out there may be offended by the burning of a koran.

Again, if you honestly believe that the “moderates” will become “radicals” over the burning of a koran, you are admitting that the moderates are really radicals waiting for an excuse. As to the already self-proclaimed radicals, whether a koran is burnt or not will make no difference. They are going to kill regardless.

So I see no logic in your position other than you don’t want to offend islam. Were islam so worried about offending hte rest of the world, i might care. Islam offends every other religion and humanity in general on a daily basis with its atrocities and treatment of other religions. Enough! Enough with pretending that we can change islam into a peaceful, civilized reliion. We can’t. What we can do is prove to them that we will not be subjugated and that it is far too coslty to them to try.

I used to be for the iraq war on the belief that we could civilize them. We can’t. No more nation-building. We should only bomb viciously in retaliation, not station troops to try and turn them into civilized societies.

Monkeytoe on September 9, 2010 at 6:51 PM

The first Islamic attempt to conquer Europe was stopped not because the peoples at the time were “tolerant” and understanding of Islam, it was stopped because a man named Charles Martel had a spine of steel and balls to match. He drew a line and butchered them. The survivors fled, only to regroup and spread across Europe again today, as well as here.

darwin on September 9, 2010 at 5:47 PM

http://www.biographyplus.com/charles_martel_biography.htm

“Charles Martel (or, in modern English, Charles the Hammer) (23 August 686 – 22 October 741)is best remembered for winning the Battle of Tours in 732, which has traditionally been characterized as an action saving Europe from the Umayyad expansionism that had conquered Iberia. There were no further Umayyad invasions of Frankish territory, and Charles’s victory has often been regarded as decisive for world history, since it preserved western Europe from Muslim conquest and Islamization.
Though primarily remembered simply as the leader of the Christian army that prevailed at Tours, Charles Martel was a truly giant figure of the Middle Ages. A brilliant general in an age generally bereft of the same, he is considered the forefather of western heavy cavalry

Martel earned his reputation for brilliant generalship, in an age generally bereft of same, by his ability to use what he had, integrating new ideas and technology. As a consequence he was undefeated from 716 to his death against a wide range of opponents, including the Muslim cavalry, at that time the world’s best, and the fierce barbarian Saxons on his own borders, and despite virtually always being outnumbered. He was the only general in the Middle Ages in Europe to use the eastern battle technique of feigned retreat. His ability to attack where he was least expected, when he was least expected, and how he was least expected, were legendary.

The defeats Martel inflicted on the Muslims were absolutely vital in that the split in the Islamic world left the Caliphate unable to mount an all out attack on Europe via its Iberian stronghold after 750. His ability to meet this challenge, until the Muslims self-destructed, is of macrohistorical importance, and is why Dante writes of him in Heaven as one of the “Defenders of the Faith.

The battle of Tours, or Poitiers, as it should be called, is regarded as one of the decisive battles of the world. It decided that Christians, and not Muslims, should be the ruling power in Europe. Charles Martel is especially celebrated as the hero of this battle.””

Luka on September 9, 2010 at 6:51 PM

Compare and contrast Charles Martel and David Petraues.

It would be like comparing a Giant with a Dwarf.

Luka on September 9, 2010 at 6:55 PM

“The real worry is that unarmed civilians are going to die somewhere — in Afghanistan or Europe or Indonesia or Africa or, heaven forbid, here at home — because there are now enough Muslim fundamentalists spread around the world that realistically no one is safe.” There fixed. Your welcome AP.

Kalapana on September 9, 2010 at 6:58 PM

Has anyone noticed that the media/Democrat/Obama attempt to stop this non-event is exactly in line with the Organization of the Islamic Conference’s attempt to impose blasphemy laws upon the entire earth?

Certainly not many so-called conservatives have made this elementary connection. Nor have they any suggestions on what to do about incessant Moslem demands (by those radical and “moderate,” foreign and domestic) that we all be good little dhimmis.

Kalapana on September 9, 2010 at 7:04 PM

Now that you mention it, Shanksville PA doesn’t have a mosque…..yet.

BobMbx on September 9, 2010 at 5:08 PM

True, but if Murtha were still alive, we’d have a terrorist detainee center under construction now on some nearby windmill farm.

petefrt on September 9, 2010 at 7:06 PM

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