Obama to Koran-burning pastor: Think of the troops

posted at 4:12 pm on September 9, 2010 by Allahpundit

A partial list of people who’ve weighed in thus far on Terry Jones’s publicity stunt turned mega-clusterfark: The U.S. Secretary of State, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, the presidents of Afghanistan and Indonesia, the prime minister of Iraq, the home minister of India, the Pakistani ambassador to the U.S., the FBI, Interpol, the Vatican — and now, inevitably, the president of the United States. What this is, basically, is a global hostage situation, and while Obama (and Petraeus, and Romney) is making a shrewd rhetorical move by framing this as a plea to protect the troops, the danger obviously goes far beyond that. You’re not seeing Indian ministers opine here because they care about U.S. soldiers, and needless to say, if there’s anyone in the world who’s capable of handling himself against a threat, it’s an American G.I. with a M-16. The real worry is that unarmed civilians are going to die somewhere — in Afghanistan or Europe or Indonesia or Africa or, heaven forbid, here at home — because there are now enough Muslim fundamentalists spread around the world that realistically no one is safe. The “do it for the troops” gambit is essentially just a clever smokescreen aimed at appealing to Jones’s sense of patriotism. And it might work: He told USA Today earlier that a direct request from Obama to stand down would “cause us definitely to think it over.” Well, here’s the official request, which might be followed by a phone call from The One himself to Jones. (How’s that for creating a perverse PR incentive?) Frankly, at this point, Jones might as well drop the idea and declare “victory.” If he’s trying to make a point about “the dangers of radical Islam,” he can just point to the list of hand-wringing statesmen above and declare that the point has already been made. No need to actually strike a match.

I’m not going to rehash my objection to criticizing free speech on grounds that it poses a risk to soldiers, so let me make a few other points instead. First, to Robert Gibbs: No, burning the Koran doesn’t go against “every one of our values.” Book-burning is a repulsive means of protest but it’s as much a First Amendment matter as flag-burning is. Breathe into a paper bag, Gibbsy. Second, to Obama (and Petraeus and Romney): No, burning the Koran does not “endanger our young men and women in uniform who are in Iraq, who are in Afghanistan.” The reaction to burning the Koran is what endangers our men and women in uniform (and everyone else). This is a crucial point, worth always bearing in mind when speech is met with violence. When you blame a speaker for the violent response to his speech, you absolve the violent actor of the moral choice he made in deciding to act. If you think it’s Jones, rather than some Taliban suicide bomber, who’s a mortal threat to the troops, then presumably you also think Theo Van Gogh got what was coming to him. After all, he knew the risk when he made “Submission,” right?

Third, as tempting as it is to blame the media for giving this crank a megaphone, I’m uncomfortable with doing so. Make no mistake, their behavior’s been typically loathsome. Clearly, they pursued this story in the wake of the Ground Zero mosque kerfuffle in order to buttress their pre-midterm “Islamophobia” narrative — but something went wrong on the way to page one. By calling attention to it, they brought it to the attention of fundies, and now suddenly the worldwide fretting about imminent violence makes the “Islamophobes” look a bit less crazy than before. So now, as Tom Maguire says, they’re trying to climb off the tiger: The AP announced today that it won’t distribute photos or audio of the Koran-burning (if it happens) while Fox News insists that it won’t cover the event at all. This is their way, however belatedly, of denying jihadis easy propaganda from the event. So why, given all that, is it wrong to blame the media? Well, for one thing, doing so would make the same mistake about moral choices that I warned of above. If Jake Tapper covers the Koran-burning and some jihadi filthbag sees the footage and blows someone’s head off in Islamabad, it ain’t Jake Tapper who pulled the trigger. Filthbags have moral agency just like everyone else. The deeper reason, though, is that blaming the media can only encourage them to censor themselves in the future for fear of offending Muslims. American newspapers have already largely suppressed the Mohammed cartoons, and Comedy Central has taken to bleeping Mohammed’s name on “South Park.” And now, already, we have Fox out-and-out refusing to cover news events lest some excitable fundie crank go berserk. Where do we draw that line?


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And are you ok with an 18 year old that helps a 14 year old move out of her parent’s house and in with the 18 year old?

blink on May 25, 2013 at 1:29 PM

What does that have to do with anything? That isn’t sexual. It is not a crime as far as I am aware.

They had sex…so yeah her picking the kid up in her car for a weekend of vibrator tutorials at her parents house is a crime.

Picking any kid up for a weekend jaunt without a parents consent is a big no-no.

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 2:09 PM

What if it were an 18 year old male having an affair with a 14 year old male?

ladyingray on May 25, 2013 at 11:56 AM

Exactly.

Give it a few years though and that case would be viewed the same as this current one….maybe the younger kid wanted it, you know, since he was ‘born that way’.

TeaTrekkie on May 25, 2013 at 2:09 PM

The 14 year old absolutely could consent under the law. The law even makes consent an issue in removal from registration. The law simply doesn’t care if the 14 year old consented or not. It is illegal regardless of consent.

You should look up “predatory” in the dictionary, because “violating a prohibitionary law” clearly isn’t within it.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:05 PM

No, a 14 year old can not consent under the law in Florida. And your ridiculous call to look up the word predatory is duly noted. I’ll be sure to take note of all the words in any dictionary that do not give hyper-specific definitions…moron.

NotCoach on May 25, 2013 at 2:10 PM

These are glaringly opposite predictions. But my own experience leans a lot more toward the former than the latter. Maybe it’s because I’m from farm country and was in high school so many decades ago, but that wasn’t my experience. There most certainly were cases where kids in our local schools, including mine, had sex during high school. And sometimes the gap was as much as Senior with Freshman.

I’m from farm country too… and I’m sorry, Senior-Freshman relationships make me sick and made me sick when I was in school.

ninjapirate on May 25, 2013 at 2:11 PM

These are not the “same thing”, which should be evident to you by the fact that “damage done” and “successful criminal” are actually different words.

You’re playing semantics, but you didn’t address the core example question using your “no damage done” criteria for punishment. Does John Wilkes Booth get a pass from you if his shot had missed Lincoln?

If not, why not?

And how do you know that she’s going to suffer a lifetime of damage? Do you even know the victim? Not saying that she won’t, but there just isn’t enough information about this girl out there for you to make that conclusion, unless you do know her.
NorthernCross on May 25, 2013 at 1:44 PM

You’re the one who has already declared no damage has been done to the child – is that due an uncanny ability to read minds and predict the future? Or perhaps you know the victim to preemptively declare your own diagnosis and conclusion?

whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 2:12 PM

jhffmn on May 25, 2013 at 2:07 PM

It’s true that they vary but after working at a school for children in their early teens, I see a theme. Hormones, lack of parental input and lack experience do not usually lead to wise decisions. As for the older teen, I find her parents involvement in this not only an indication of her maturity level but a ploy for infamy that she many not have come up with all on her own.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 2:13 PM

Laws were made to be broken. Especially now.

NotEasilyFooled on May 25, 2013 at 2:13 PM

What would you charge her with?

blink on May 25, 2013 at 1:43 PM

I wouldn’t charge her with anything under the current law, but if the goal is to stop teenagers from having sex, you make it illegal for the younger one, and you’ll actually get results. Horny 14 year olds are far more likely to keep their legs closed when THEY have to suffer consequences, instead of simply having their sex partners take all the risk.

At least she wouldnt get a permanent record and wouldnt have her life destroyed.

That’s SOP for Law Enforcement! The Parents of the minor sought legal remedy because an adult predator wouldn’t leave their minor child alone!

I suppose the Lolita defense makes sense to you? Maybe you’re just a big Roman Polanski fan?

Afterall….Roman Polanski said the same thingy…She acted older and hey…why is drugging and raping her a bad thing since she was 14, and seemed to want it and laws like this are bourgeoisie puritanical and oppressive or something.
workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 1:51 PM

1. Law enforcement didn’t give her a script and pick her words, and law enforcement couldn’t compel her to make the call against her will.

2. There is absolutely no basis to call Kaitlyn a predator. There is no evidence she did anything predatory.

3. I don’t know what the lolita defense even is, but your name calling is laughable, maybe youre just a big pedophile fan?

4. Roman Polanski didn’t say that, but what he did do was give a 13 year old alcohol, drugs, and then anally raped her despite her clear statements of non-consent before and during the rape. By contrast, this case was consensual.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:14 PM

Had they been in an opposite-sex relationship, I wonder if folks might have commented on the four-year age difference. Maybe. Maybe not.

calbear on May 25, 2013 at 1:02 PM

Google Marcus Dixon…

JohnGalt23 on May 25, 2013 at 2:15 PM

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 1:41 PM

You’re an idiot.

Solaratov on May 25, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Not sure if there are any “metrics.” But why do we need them? If a victim suffered no or negligible harm, why do we need “metrics” in order to understand that?

You want to determine that the victim suffered no harm without using a method for making such determination? How were you not embarrassed to write this?
blink on May 25, 2013 at 2:06 PM

I’m laying odds on a claim of great psychic ability.

whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 2:16 PM

So if a fourteen year old really really wants a new pair of jeans, she should be allowed to steal the money to buy them or steal the jeans? It is not good for any human being to have their every whim fulfilled. Especially a child because their whims are just that. This girl is now in the public eye and all of that could have been avoided if the “adult” had complied to the parents request to stop the relationship. Do you think the 18 year old gives a flying flip about the 14 year old? She’s on television and famous now!

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 1:37 PM

Stealing is a malum per se crime with a clear victim so idk what your point is there.

If you think Kaitlyn did this on purpose for attention, you’re crazy.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:17 PM

Of course not, but this has nothing to do with prosecuting statutory rape cases.

It’s great that you are telling us what you’d like to see happen in this case (everyone has that right), but it ignores the reality of how these cases are handled throughout the country. You’re asking for this girl to get special treatment. Maybe you’re asking for a sweeping change to the treatment of these cases (which would require changes in legislation), but this is not what you are articulating.

Strawman, but I’ll let you figure out on your own that I didn’t ask for her to get “special treatment”.

BTW, in many states there are ranges of punishments allowed by statute for statutory rape. Take a guess how judges and juries figure out what to do with those ranges. (Hint: Impact on the victim might be something.)

Good grief? You want to determine that the victim suffered no harm without using a method for making such determination? How were you not embarrassed to write this?

I guess it has to do with the fact that we can make such determinations without requiring that it be a science. I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase “case-by-case determinations.”

What on EARTH does this have to do with you calling for special treatment in PROSECUTING this case??????

For prosecuting cases, there’s such a thing as “prosecutorial discretion.” Tell us again how that works?

It’s obvious that you know very little about “how things are” with respect to these cases.

blink on May 25, 2013 at 2:06 PM

Tell us about your “metrics” for figuring that out. While you’re at it, tell us about your “metrics” for tying your shoes. :)

NorthernCross on May 25, 2013 at 2:17 PM

Laws were made to be broken bent.

NotEasilyFooled on May 25, 2013 at 2:13 PM

That’s why judges have discretion.

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 2:17 PM

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:14 PM

Wow, more fourteen year olds in jail for bad decisions, excellent idea. I guess the would lower the abortion rate also if the sex was heterosexual.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 2:18 PM

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 1:41 PM

Other than the fact that she made the phone call with the police, no where in that article does it state that she initiated the actions.

Barred on May 25, 2013 at 2:18 PM

Romeo and Juliet?

The 18yo will always be someone’s hero.
(if Obama had another daughter she’d look like Kaitlyn)

The 14yo will always be someone’s guttural joke.
(pictures or it didn’t happen)

From The Other McCain:
The Smiths say they only went to police after a Jan. 4 incident in which their daughter went missing overnight; a sheriff’s department arrest affidavit in the case says the 14-year-old ran away and spent that night at Hunt’s house, where the two teens “put their fingers inside of each other’s vaginas, put their mouths on each other’s vaginas, and both of them used a vibrator on each other to insert it in each other’s vaginas.”

OldChick on May 25, 2013 at 2:19 PM

NorthernCross will say that this analogy is bad because the 14 year old was not is mortal danger. Strange.

blink on May 25, 2013 at 2:14 PM

Blink will equate statutory rape with political assassinations. Strange.

:)

NorthernCross on May 25, 2013 at 2:19 PM

If you think Kaitlyn did this on purpose for attention, you’re crazy.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:17 PM

Yeah, she’s in love./

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 2:19 PM

If she was a male or looked like Andrea Dworkin, this wouldn’t be a two-day local story, much less a National Conversation.

DRPrice on May 25, 2013 at 2:21 PM

Roman Polanski didn’t say that, but what he did do was give a 13 year old alcohol, drugs, and then anally raped her despite her clear statements of non-consent before and during the rape. By contrast, this case was consensual.
kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:14 PM

Children can’t consent to sex with adults. And since the predator took the child away from her family to her own place until she got caught, how do you know whether alcohol or drugs were involved or not?

whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 2:21 PM

Wow. Blame the victim. You’re a terrible liberal.

alwaysfiredup on May 25, 2013 at 1:45 PM

The 14 year old is not a victim, and

I am not a liberal.

The fourteen year old is a child. Do you know any fourteen year old kids. The terrible twos have nothing on the vigilance parents have to practice at this point in their children’s lives. Congratulations to this child’s parents for realizing their daughter was not mature enough to recognized a manipulative predator willing to use her for physical pleasure and a launch board to infamy. It’s not like they didn’t try the quiet rational route to solving the issue.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 1:59 PM

A 99 year old is also a child. You are a child. I am a child. We are all children. We were all born to someone and have or had parents. Semantically saying “child” is meaningless.

Some 14 year olds are sexually active and there’s nothing you can do to stop it. Women pick their partners. Some 14 year old girls pick 18+ partners because that is what they like. 14 year old boys generally pick “anyone who will say yes”.

Cindy, I think you have mental problems, given your conclusions regarding Kaitlyn. It takes a pretty sick puppy to conclude based on the facts we know, that Kaitlyn is “a manipulative predator willing to use her for physical pleasure and a launch board to infamy”.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:22 PM

While it might seem like a huge age difference, a 18 year old really isn’t much more mature than a 14 year old — at least not enough to be predatory toward the younger child.

Timin203 on May 25, 2013 at 1:03 PM

Please tell me you’re kidding.

In the teenage years, one year makes a huge difference in maturity, let alone four. There are world’s of difference in the maturity of a 14-year-old and that of an 18-year-old. That’s why one would be legally allowed to buy a house while the other wouldn’t even be permitted to drive a car.

There is certainly enough of an emotional maturity difference to make it possible for one to be a predator toward the other.

Shump on May 25, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Yeah…But then it progressed to alienating the minor from her parents.

Kaitlyn is a manipulative predator who used a minor to sexually gratify herself…Probably satisfied her dominant ego as well.

After all she was mentoring the minor…with vibrators.

She’s a Psychopath.

*blech*

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 2:04 PM

I’m sure she thought (like predators do) that she’d never get caught or if she did, she could worm her way out of it. All with just a cute little wink and a smile. Who says a predator has to be the guy in the trench coat staring at the playground? *blech* indeed!

Jomama on May 25, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Jacquelyn Faith Garrison, 19: Substitute teacher at South Central High School in Winterville, N.C., was indicted in January 2006 on charges she was having an improper relationship with a 15-year-old student. The case involves some 50 phone calls and text messages exchanged between Garrison and the boy, who reportedly became uncomfortable when things of a sexual nature came up.

Gotta give it up for N.C. Of course, Morality has declined since 2006.

socalcon on May 25, 2013 at 2:22 PM

If you think Kaitlyn did this on purpose for attention, you’re crazy.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:17 PM

She didn’t want the attention.

I think she had other motives in mind, wanting them all secret.

If you somehow think she told her parents the whole truth, you’re crazy.

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 2:23 PM

There is a HUGE difference between a 14 yr old and an 18 yr old. One is a child and the other is an adult. Parents should have the law on their side to protect their children from sexual relationships with adults.

bitsy on May 25, 2013 at 2:23 PM

I wouldn’t charge her with anything under the current law, but if the goal is to stop teenagers from having sex, you make it illegal for the younger one, and you’ll actually get results. Horny 14 year olds are far more likely to keep their legs closed when THEY have to suffer consequences, instead of simply having their sex partners take all the risk.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:14 PM

Not unless the point is to protect the rapist who should know better instead of the child that doesn’t.

Sorry, but “The child manipulated me into having sex with them” doesn’t work — unless you are a liberal who is pathologically desperate to avoid any consequences whatsoever for your actions.

northdallasthirty on May 25, 2013 at 2:24 PM

Children can’t consent to sex with adults. And since the predator took the child away from her family to her own place until she got caught, how do you know whether alcohol or drugs were involved or not?

whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 2:21 PM

1. Yes they can. We are all children. If you meant to say “minors” please use the correct word.

2. Minors can consent to sex with people who are 18+. The law simply doesn’t care.

3. Miss 14 ran away on her own. There is no evidence that Kaitlyn induced her to run away. If she did, it would have been in the police report. Kaitlyn’s parents were present. If there was drug and alcohol use, it would have been in the police report.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:25 PM

DRPrice on May 25, 2013 at 2:21 PM

I had to look up who that was. I think if it was male it wouldn’t have the “new” factor but I bet the press would hardly likely to be on the side of a popular white male senior high school student. You know they hate them (Duke Lacross) but you are dead on with the attractiveness of the older teen.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 2:25 PM

NorthernCross will say that this analogy is bad because the 14 year old was not is mortal danger. Strange.
blink on May 25, 2013 at 2:14 PM

Blink will equate statutory rape with political assassinations. Strange.
NorthernCross on May 25, 2013 at 2:19 PM

Nevertheless, it is noted that you’re still terrified to answer the posed question.

whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 2:26 PM

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:25 PM

She picked her up in her car and took her to her parents house. No, she didn’t have anything to do with. Just keeping her safe./

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 2:26 PM

Some 14 year olds are sexually active and there’s nothing you can do to stop it. Women pick their partners. Some 14 year old girls pick 18+ partners because that is what they like. 14 year old boys generally pick “anyone who will say yes”.

LOL.

The scourge of helpless 18-year-olds being manipulated into sex by their mental, emotional, and physical inferiors exists only in your own mind, liberal.

What we have here is you desperately trying to spin for a rapist who had every opportunity in the world to use common sense and control herself and didn’t.

Cindy, I think you have mental problems, given your conclusions regarding Kaitlyn. It takes a pretty sick puppy to conclude based on the facts we know, that Kaitlyn is “a manipulative predator willing to use her for physical pleasure and a launch board to infamy”.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Not really.

Kaitlyn has lied about every aspect of this, and continues to lie, even to the point that DailyKos can no longer handle the lies.

northdallasthirty on May 25, 2013 at 2:27 PM

Minors can consent to sex with people who are 18+. The law simply doesn’t care.
kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:25 PM

I honestly find it impossible to believe that anyone could be so dreadfully ignorant of the most basic of laws.

whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 2:29 PM

Not unless the point is to protect the rapist who should know better instead of the child that doesn’t.

Sorry, but “The child manipulated me into having sex with them” doesn’t work — unless you are a liberal who is pathologically desperate to avoid any consequences whatsoever for your actions.

northdallasthirty on May 25, 2013 at 2:24 PM

Consensual sex with a minor is not rape. Minors can consent.

The law can make sex with a minor illegal whether they consent or not, but actual lack of consent is always a SEPARATE and MORE SERIOUS CRIME. If it wasn’t, then consensual sex like this case would be the exact same as a violent rape in the eyes of the law.

No one said anything about manipulation, but if a teenage girl is attractive and goes after an adult, it is not malicious or immoral for the adult to say “yes”. It is not that adult’s job to parent your child for you, UNLESS that adult agreed to do so in the form of teaching, babysitting, coaching, etc.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:30 PM

Yeah, get ready for hundreds of lawsuits against Boy Scouts when the gay guys start hitting up their new found buddies…..

redguy on May 25, 2013 at 2:31 PM

We are all children.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:25 PM

Speak for yourself.

That demented mindset explains why liberals defy people who seek better morals are so ‘evil’.

Get a clue — My fourteen year old granddaughter will NOT become a slut so sick-minded liberals with their ‘sexual revolution’ can somehow be justified.

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 2:31 PM

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Child/minor, you’re really reaching. I didn’t lure anyone into an illicit relationship and ignore, twice, the pleadings of custodial parents to stop, so I don’t know how you figure I am the sick puppy. And I don’t know why, in today’s social media culture, you would think it impossible that this was nothing more than a stunt. Let’s see if she does any media once there has been a disposition on the legal matters are completed.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 2:31 PM

Jesus, please take this post out of the “top picks”… this chick who wants special treatment makes me sick.

No one said anything about manipulation, but if a teenage girl is attractive and goes after an adult, it is not malicious or immoral for the adult to say “yes”. It is not that adult’s job to parent your child for you, UNLESS that adult agreed to do so in the form of teaching, babysitting, coaching, etc.

I’m pretty sure you’re mistaking hotair for 4chan’s /b/.

ninjapirate on May 25, 2013 at 2:32 PM

A 99 year old is also a child. You are a child. I am a child. We are all children. We were all born to someone and have or had parents. Semantically saying “child” is meaningless.

Some 14 year olds are sexually active and there’s nothing you can do to stop it. Women pick their partners. Some 14 year old girls pick 18+ partners because that is what they like. 14 year old boys generally pick “anyone who will say yes”.

Cindy, I think you have mental problems, given your conclusions regarding Kaitlyn. It takes a pretty sick puppy to conclude based on the facts we know, that Kaitlyn is “a manipulative predator willing to use her for physical pleasure and a launch board to infamy”.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:22 PM

Your Mom wants the computer back…Oh and get a Job!

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 2:34 PM

She picked her up in her car and took her to her parents house. No, she didn’t have anything to do with. Just keeping her safe./

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 2:26 PM

The 14 year old would have been better off on the streets? Maybe then she could have given blowjobs for crack and you’d be much happier with the situation.

Kaitlyn has lied about every aspect of this, and continues to lie, even to the point that DailyKos can no longer handle the lies.

northdallasthirty on May 25, 2013 at 2:27 PM

I read the police report, and Kaitlyn was completely upfront and honest with the police, despite having been read her Miranda rights. The fact that she would be honest to the point of stupidity says a lot about how honest she really is.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:34 PM

No one said anything about manipulation, but if a teenage girl is attractive and goes after an adult, it is not malicious or immoral for the adult to say “yes”. It is not that adult’s job to parent your child for you, UNLESS that adult agreed to do so in the form of teaching, babysitting, coaching, etc.

I’m pretty sure you’re mistaking hotair for 4chan’s /b/.

ninjapirate on May 25, 2013 at 2:32 PM

Heh. Good un.

whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 2:35 PM

Consensual sex with a minor is not rape. Minors can consent.

Yes, we already know that’s what NAMBLA believes. It’s just stunning to find out that liberals like you do.

The law can make sex with a minor illegal whether they consent or not, but actual lack of consent is always a SEPARATE and MORE SERIOUS CRIME. If it wasn’t, then consensual sex like this case would be the exact same as a violent rape in the eyes of the law.

LOL.

So if someone coerces a child into saying yes, that immediately reduces their punishment.

No one said anything about manipulation, but if a teenage girl is attractive and goes after an adult, it is not malicious or immoral for the adult to say “yes”. It is not that adult’s job to parent your child for you, UNLESS that adult agreed to do so in the form of teaching, babysitting, coaching, etc.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:30 PM

LOL.

So when a child does something stupid, the ADULT is automatically indemnified for actively choosing to participate in it?

The adult can say no. The adult, by ANY standard of law, public policy, or morality, SHOULD say no.

The adult is acting in a criminally negligent fashion. Thus, the adult is culpable.

northdallasthirty on May 25, 2013 at 2:36 PM

I understand the law but I just don’t think 18 year olds are adults. Or at least a whole heck of a lot aren’t. Maybe that’s why I find this case so troubling.

And could you imagine if every senior dating a freshman was charged like this? It may be wrong but it goes on in every high school. Do we really need to be ruining lives? Shoplifting is wrong too, we don’t need to go back to cutting off a hand for theft.

jhffmn on May 25, 2013 at 2:37 PM

Get a clue — My fourteen year old granddaughter will NOT become a slut so sick-minded liberals with their ‘sexual revolution’ can somehow be justified.

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 2:31 PM

Good for you, but some 14 year olds ARE sluts, aren’t they?

Throwing a guy in prison and making him a sex offender for having sex with a slut without demanding ID first is ridiculous and foolish, isn’t it? Most guys have very low standards to begin with.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:37 PM

I wouldn’t charge her with anything under the current law, but if the goal is to stop teenagers from having sex, you make it illegal for the younger one, and you’ll actually get results. Horny 14 year olds are far more likely to keep their legs closed when THEY have to suffer consequences, instead of simply having their sex partners take all the risk.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:14 PM

Not unless the point is to protect the rapist who should know better instead of the child that doesn’t.

Sorry, but “The child manipulated me into having sex with them” doesn’t work — unless you are a liberal who is pathologically desperate to avoid any consequences whatsoever for your actions.

northdallasthirty on May 25, 2013 at 2:24 PM

Yep!

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 2:37 PM

I read the police report, and Kaitlyn was completely upfront and honest with the police, despite having been read her Miranda rights. The fact that she would be honest to the point of stupidity says a lot about how honest she really is.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:34 PM

Uh huh.

Which is why she turned around and started lying about it on Facebook in order to smear the parents of the other child.

If she was honest, why would she lie so blatantly and publicly — especially when doing so was clearly to maliciously slander the other parents involved.

northdallasthirty on May 25, 2013 at 2:38 PM

I read the police report, and Kaitlyn was completely upfront and honest with the police, despite having been read her Miranda rights. The fact that she would be honest to the point of stupidity says a lot about how honest she really is.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:34 PM

That’s like saying you’d kiss the ass of a guy who owned up to four murders.

Hey! Kaitlyn is is the mac&cheese!

And so are YOU!

Well, I guess you just won the thread. WE can go all go home now.

~spits~

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 2:38 PM

I read the police report, and Kaitlyn was completely upfront and honest with the police, despite having been read her Miranda rights. The fact that she would be honest to the point of stupidity says a lot about how honest she really is.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:34 PM

Sure…and I own a bridge in Brooklyn I’m selling cheap.

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 2:38 PM

So, eighteen year old girl seduces fourteen year old girl into homosexuality and into running away from home, and people are defending the older girl?

Count to 10 on May 25, 2013 at 2:38 PM

Yikes, I cannot even believe the venom being spewed at Ms. Hunt here. Have you witch-hunters even stopped to consider the position you’re supporting?

You want an 18 year old girl who was attracted to another girl in her high school (a girl who reciprocated that attraction), to go to PRISON for TEN to FIFTEEN YEARS and to spend her WHOLE LIFE as a REGISTERED SEX OFFENDER for some CONSENSUAL, NON-REPRODUCTIVE sexual escapades?

Heaven forbid that your youthful indiscretions had been punished in such a draconian, unforgiving manner.

What harm has been done here? By the younger girl’s parents’ own admission, it was THEIR DAUGHTER who started acting out. As kaltes has rightly pointed out, a 14-year old girl who wants to have sex WILL have sex, short of keeping her under 24-hour armed surveillance. You all seem to be offended that the sexual partner she chose happened to be 18.

I don’t know what to even say to you all. I assume that you all hope and pray that God is more forgiving of your sins than you are of this girl’s. You should all take a moment and read the parable of the Unforgiving Servant and decide which part you’re playing in that parable.

Longing4Lincoln on May 25, 2013 at 2:38 PM

And could you imagine if every senior dating a freshman was charged like this? It may be wrong but it goes on in every high school. Do we really need to be ruining lives? Shoplifting is wrong too, we don’t need to go back to cutting off a hand for theft.

jhffmn on May 25, 2013 at 2:37 PM

If you choose to have sex with the freshman that you’re dating, yes.

The basic problem is that you can’t separate “dating” from “having sex”.

northdallasthirty on May 25, 2013 at 2:39 PM

And could you imagine if every senior dating a freshman was charged like this? It may be wrong but it goes on in every high school.

I wish it was prosecuted more often… in fact, I wish high schools were only 3 grade levels so that this would be much less likely to happen.

ninjapirate on May 25, 2013 at 2:39 PM

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:34 PM

Hmmmm, so she can go to jail but she must be saved by her adult lover from the possible horror of the streets? If she would have run away at all had she not had a place to go. Oh, and a ride. I bet Kaitlyn has a cool car! Seems a touch inconsistent.

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 2:40 PM

Defending the indefensible.
You can really tell if someone doesn’t have children. Or if they are nothing but a child themselves.

Jomama on May 25, 2013 at 2:40 PM

I read the police report, and Kaitlyn was completely upfront and honest with the police, despite having been read her Miranda rights. The fact that she would be honest to the point of stupidity says a lot about how honest she really is.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:34 PM

Uh huh.

Which is why she turned around and started lying about it on Facebook in order to smear the parents of the other child.

If she was honest, why would she lie so blatantly and publicly — especially when doing so was clearly to maliciously slander the other parents involved.

northdallasthirty on May 25, 2013 at 2:38 PM

Because using the Travon Martin PR Offensive to justify a Lolita Defense guarantees YOUTUBE funding or something…

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 2:41 PM

Good for you, but some 14 year olds ARE sluts, aren’t they?

Throwing a guy in prison and making him a sex offender for having sex with a slut without demanding ID first is ridiculous and foolish, isn’t it? Most guys have very low standards to begin with.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:37 PM

Oh, you’re NOT getting away there.

YOU want to defend Hunt. YOU need self-justification here.

The more you defend here, the more I see YOU as a pervert.

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 2:41 PM

Some people are just born pedophile…don’t be a hater. /lib

trs on May 25, 2013 at 2:41 PM

From The Other McCain:
The Smiths say …

OldChick on May 25, 2013 at 2:19

The descriptive police report provide ample evidence the 14 yo lacks the mental capacity to make an informed consent.

socalcon on May 25, 2013 at 2:41 PM

The fact that she would be honest to the point of stupidity says a lot about how honest she really is.
kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:34 PM

Lots of criminals are “honest” like that:
Man calls 911 with pot inquiry

whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 2:41 PM

By the way, the blanket assumption made by most of you here that every 18-year old who has sex with a person 3.5 years their junior ends up being prosecuted and sent away for a decade, with a lifelong sex-registry requirement is… difficult to believe.

Longing4Lincoln on May 25, 2013 at 2:42 PM

Longing4Lincoln on May 25, 2013 at 2:38 PM

I haven’t read a lot of people suggesting that she go to jail for 10 or 15 years. I’ve seen the suggest that she stay the hell out of this other family’s life and/or suggestions of civil litigation. Don’t try to shut us up by calling us haters. The law will deal with the 18 year old ADULT and will probably be as lenient as possible with this first time offender. What she did was wrong, would you be saying the same thing if she was giving the fourteen year old drugs instead of sex?

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 2:43 PM

Longing4Lincoln on May 25, 2013 at 2:38 PM

How about this.

Equal Application of the Law?

Feminists should applaud that…right?

Everything being equal that is.

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 2:43 PM

Sexual subjects just aren’t the same without Dr. Tesla typing “sodomy” five times on every page…

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on May 25, 2013 at 2:43 PM

If I might state the obvious, if you’re heterosexual, a public bathroom might not work for you the way it would for these two.

calbear on May 25, 2013 at 1:57 PM

To speak more on that, I wouldn’t use that kind of venue for me and my lady. She deserves the best I can give her.

If she wants to be a little adventurous, we can talk. But a trashy place is not going to sit with me.

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 2:00 PM

You have the luxury of other venues. These two might not have. I’ve never done so much as kiss in a public bathroom, but sexual drive often makes “trashy” preferable to “nothing.”

calbear on May 25, 2013 at 2:43 PM

kaltes has rightly pointed out, a 14-year old girl who wants to have sex WILL have sex, short of keeping her under 24-hour armed surveillance.

Longing4Lincoln on May 25, 2013 at 2:38 PM

Hey necrophiliac who longs for Lincoln, kaltes is pretty much defending full blown “consensual” pedophilia here.

Kaitlyn Hunt is an airhead who deserves some punishment for being an airhead.

ninjapirate on May 25, 2013 at 2:44 PM

The descriptive police report provide ample evidence the 14 yo lacks the mental capacity to make an informed consent.

socalcon on May 25, 2013 at 2:41 PM

Indeed.

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 2:44 PM

Good for you, but some 14 year olds ARE sluts, aren’t they?

Throwing a guy in prison and making him a sex offender for having sex with a slut without demanding ID first is ridiculous and foolish, isn’t it? Most guys have very low standards to begin with.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:37 PM

Correction. YOU are not responsible enough to do it, and YOU have low enough standards that you would actually sleep with a fourteen-year-old.

I can and have done way better. You need to up your game and become a more responsible adult instead of a whiny welfare brat.

northdallasthirty on May 25, 2013 at 2:45 PM

about how honest she really is.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:34 PM

and????

””””””’

Also,

One’s ability to consent to sex is not determined by the difference of their age and their partner’s age. If you’re 18 it is time to wear your big girl’s pants. You’re an adult.

CW on May 25, 2013 at 2:45 PM

Sexual subjects just aren’t the same without Dr. Tesla typing “sodomy” five times on every page…

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on May 25, 2013 at 2:43 PM

sodomy!

*snicker*

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 2:46 PM

By the way, the blanket assumption made by most of you here that every 18-year old who has sex with a person 3.5 years their junior ends up being prosecuted and sent away for a decade, with a lifelong sex-registry requirement is… difficult to believe.

Um, you’re the idiot here… do you think the ones who are prosecuted are sent away for a decade numbnuts?

ninjapirate on May 25, 2013 at 2:46 PM

Throwing a guy in prison and making him a sex offender for having sex with a slut without demanding ID first is ridiculous and foolish, isn’t it? Most guys have very low standards to begin with.

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:37 PM

You’re ill and their is no reasoning with you .

fReaK.

CW on May 25, 2013 at 2:46 PM

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 2:43 PM

Okay, so what’s a fair application here? I believe the state offered her a lesser sentence that would have still required her to register as a sex offender? You think her “crime” merited that?

I have no problem with equal application of the law, but too many people here are assuming, without any valid proof, that every guy who does this gets the book thrown at him (instead of the proverbial slap on the wrist which he deserves – and usually gets). They then jump from that to saying she shouldn’t “do the crime unless she’s willing to do the time.”

Longing4Lincoln on May 25, 2013 at 2:46 PM

You have the luxury of other venues. These two might not have. I’ve never done so much as kiss in a public bathroom, but sexual drive often makes “trashy” preferable to “nothing.”

calbear on May 25, 2013 at 2:43 PM

Your inability to control your sex drive is your problem’s, not society’s.

You really don’t believe in taking responsibility for anything you do, do you?

northdallasthirty on May 25, 2013 at 2:46 PM

What she did was wrong, would you be saying the same thing if she was giving the fourteen year old drugs instead of sex?

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 2:43 PM

Good point.

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 2:47 PM

kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 2:37 PM

So how do 14 year olds become sluts? Do they just indiscriminately start having lots of sex?

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 2:47 PM

Okay, so what’s a fair application here? I believe the state offered her a lesser sentence that would have still required her to register as a sex offender? You think her “crime” merited that?

I have no problem with equal application of the law, but too many people here are assuming, without any valid proof, that every guy who does this gets the book thrown at him (instead of the proverbial slap on the wrist which he deserves – and usually gets). They then jump from that to saying she shouldn’t “do the crime unless she’s willing to do the time.”

Longing4Lincoln on May 25, 2013 at 2:46 PM

Yup.

If you don’t like the law, change it.

So for the record, state that you don’t believe in age of consent laws and that children can consent to sex.

This is choking a bunch of people on Twitter right now. It’s pretty hilarious.

northdallasthirty on May 25, 2013 at 2:48 PM

I have no problem with equal application of the law, but too many people here are assuming, without any valid proof, that every guy who does this gets the book thrown at him (instead of the proverbial slap on the wrist which he deserves – and usually gets). They then jump from that to saying she shouldn’t “do the crime unless she’s willing to do the time.”

Jesus, you’re obtuse… where is anyone talking about throwing the book at her?

ninjapirate on May 25, 2013 at 2:48 PM

Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 2:43 PM

And the adult violator here did reject an agreement which would have beneficial to her to accept.

whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 2:48 PM

ninjapirate on May 25, 2013 at 2:46 PM

Wow… such eloquence. Not sure why the personal animosity, but congratulations. Let me ask you, do YOU think that those being prosecuted end up facing lifelong sex-registry requirements (because that’s the “deal” the prosecution offered her)? If so, where’s your proof?

Longing4Lincoln on May 25, 2013 at 2:48 PM

You have the luxury of other venues…but sexual drive often makes “trashy” preferable to “nothing.”

calbear on May 25, 2013 at 2:43 PM

Are you really going to be serious with that? Do YOU really think YOU are somehow enlightened’ here?

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 2:49 PM

By the way, the blanket assumption made by most of you here that every 18-year old who has sex with a person 3.5 years their junior ends up being prosecuted and sent away for a decade, with a lifelong sex-registry requirement is… difficult to believe.

So you’re saying that the worst punishment for a lesbian should be as lenient than the most lenient punishment for a heterosexual? Just because the law isn’t applied equally to everyone doesn’t mean LGBT folks should be exempt from it.

calbear on May 25, 2013 at 2:50 PM

If the 18 year old “child” would have used common sense and had any respect she would have stayed away from the 14 year old “child” like the parents asked in the first place. And then none of this world have happened. Her lack of self control caused this. She should have been enjoying her senior year with her peers instead of participating in this lurid little soap opera. She reaped what she sowed.

Jomama on May 25, 2013 at 2:50 PM

Wow… such eloquence. Not sure why the personal animosity, but congratulations.

My personal animosity comes from the fact that you’re backing up kaltes even though he’s obviously writing pedo apologetics…

like this:

No one said anything about manipulation, but if a teenage girl is attractive and goes after an adult, it is not malicious or immoral for the adult to say “yes”. It is not that adult’s job to parent your child for you, UNLESS that adult agreed to do so in the form of teaching, babysitting, coaching, etc.

ninjapirate on May 25, 2013 at 2:51 PM

Longing4Lincoln on May 25, 2013 at 2:38 PM

Closer perv says what?

The illness is strong.

Again dimwit…. the ability to make decisions like this are beyond the 14 year old’s ability…legally for the 18 year old…not so much.

CW on May 25, 2013 at 2:52 PM

Jesus, you’re obtuse… where is anyone talking about throwing the book at her?
ninjapirate on May 25, 2013 at 2:48 PM

As I mentioned above, she refused a lenient plea agreement – so if she does get the book thrown at her she asked for it.

whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 2:52 PM

northdallasthirty on May 25, 2013 at 2:48 PM

I do believe that they need some minor (and in some cases major) tweaking. Mostly, they need to remove the whole registry stigma. We recently had a “registered sex offender” move into our neighborhood. He and his wife (who is 3 years his junior) had sex shortly after he graduated from high school and she was still a junior. Her parents complained, and he ended up having to register as an offender. They ended up getting married, and now whenever they move, he and his wife have to go door to door with multiple copies of the complaint and judgment and explain themselves to their neighbors who are worried what kind of monster may have just moved into the neighborhood.

THAT is the same level of punishment they offered Kate Hunt as a “bargain.” Some bargain.

Longing4Lincoln on May 25, 2013 at 2:52 PM

If the 18 year old “child” would have used common sense and had any respect she would have stayed away from the 14 year old “child”
Jomama on May 25, 2013 at 2:50 PM

This.

People this ain’t difficult.

CW on May 25, 2013 at 2:52 PM

calbear on May 25, 2013 at 2:43 PM

Let me tell you something, Ace.

I always made sure my girl was comfortable in a nice setting. She deserved the best, and it was my requirement to make it so.

I never treated my girls as a slut. I cared about her before I became intimate with her.

YOU, on the other hand, are a slob.

Azzholes like YOU are the reason the feminist movement got started.

Liam on May 25, 2013 at 2:53 PM

If the 18 year old “child” would have used common sense and had any respect she would have stayed away from the 14 year old “child” like the parents asked in the first place. And then none of this world have happened. Her lack of self control caused this. She should have been enjoying her senior year with her peers instead of participating in this lurid little soap opera. She reaped what she sowed.

Jomama on May 25, 2013 at 2:50 PM

Psychopathy is a personality or mental disorder characterized partly by antisocial behavior, a diminished capacity for remorse, and poor behavioral controls. – DSMV

workingclass artist on May 25, 2013 at 2:54 PM

So when does female sexual orientation coalesce anyway? I’ve heard it’s more malleable; there may be changes back and forth even after age 18. Wouldn’t that suggest it can be influenced by outside factors? The Gay Mafia wants everyone to believe “you’re born that way” or at least “you are who you are, you can’t change”, sex object-wise. But from what I see, that’s more the exception than the rule.

So this 14 year old girl, many will say, “she’s a lesbian, that’s who she is”, when the truth is probably more like, she’s confused and has emotional problems and may not be sure of anything in her life now.

Paul-Cincy on May 25, 2013 at 2:54 PM

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