Beyond belief: Koran-burning called off — in exchange for moving Ground Zero mosque; Update: No deal? Update: Fred Phelps now planning to burn the Koran instead; Update: We’re not here to barter, says Rauf
posted at 5:32 pm on September 9, 2010 by Allahpundit
This otherwise slow news day sure turned interesting in a hurry, huh?
The pastor planning to burn Qurans on the Sept. 11 anniversary said Thursday that he plans to call off the event if the Muslim group seeking to build a mosque near the World Trade Center site agrees to move the project.
“We would consider that a sign from God,” the Rev. Terry Jones told reporters.
It was unclear whether such a commitment from the Muslim group was forthcoming, though some reports said Jones and the leader of the mosque project had spoken earlier Thursday.
“I have his word that he will move the mosque to a different location,” Jones said.
He says he’s on his way to NYC to meet with “officials” behind Park51. Whether that means Feisal Rauf or the owners of the property is unclear, but just as I’m writing this, news is breaking that Rauf says there’s no deal at all. Maybe there’s a split inside the Park51 leadership? Or is this mega-clusterfark about to go super-mega?
Stand by for updates, needless to say, but two thoughts while we wait. One: How can Rauf sign off on moving the mosque when he said just last night that jihadis would freak out if they did so? Maybe the thinking is that Jones’s concession on burning the Koran is enough to placate them? Two: Is this a fair trade — one First Amendment exercise in exchange for another? The two aren’t perfectly symmetrical, as I explained yesterday.
Update: Here’s Jones claiming that it was the imam, i.e. Rauf, who agreed to move the mosque. But, as noted above, Rauf is reportedly claiming that he made no such deal. Looks like we’re in super-mega territory after all. Click the image to watch.
Update: Turns out Rauf wasn’t the imam he spoke to, it was another imam. What could go wrong?
Jones said Imam Muhammad Musri of the Islamic Society of Central Florida told him that officials would guarantee that the mosque would be moved.
“I asked him three times, and I have witnesses,” Jones said. “If it’s not moved, then I think Islam is a very poor example of religion. I think that would be very pitiful. I do not expect that.”
Update: Now that we’ve officially got a Category 5 super-mega media clusterfark on our hands, Donald Trump wants in on the action: Here’s a story about him offering to buy the Park51 space at 25 percent above cost in order to end this “serious, inflammatory, and highly divisive situation.” (Remember, the principal owner told the AP yesterday that he didn’t care what happened to the property so long as he made a buck on it.) All we need now for this story to achieve pure PR nirvana is for the “Jersey Shore” cast to somehow get involved.
Update: As quickly as it was offered, Trump’s bid is rejected. The lawyer for Park51′s lawyer calls it “just a cheap attempt to get publicity and get in the limelight.”
Update: My goodness — it’s the media storm of the century!
Westboro Baptist Church, the small Topeka, Kan., church that pickets funerals of American soldiers to spread its message that God is punishing the country for being tolerant of homosexuals, has vowed to hold a Quran burning if Gainesville’s Dove World Outreach Center calls its off.
“WBC burned the Koran once – and if you sissy brats of Doomed america bully Terry Jones and the Dove World Outreach Center until they change their plans to burn that blasphemous tripe called the Koran, then WBC will burn it (again), to clearly show you some things,” the church announced in a news release this week.
What I think will happen here is that Jones will go to New York, Rauf will agree to meet with him in the interest of “dialogue” and reducing tensions, and the interfaith meeting of the minds will convince Jones not to go ahead with the book-burning. But will there be any sort of concession vis-a-vis the GZM?
Update: Mediaite speculates that this is all a clever ruse concocted by Jones to pressure the Park51 group into moving the mosque, which he’ll then happily take credit for. Just one problem with that theory, though — namely, Imam al-Masri. He appeared with Jones at the presser and claims to have spoken with Rauf’s wife, Daisy Khan, about moving the mosque. Is he in on the ruse too?
Here’s Rauf’s official statement, by the way:
“I am glad that Pastor Jones has decided not to burn any Korans,” Rauf said. “However, I have not spoken with Pastor Jones or Imam Musri. I am surprised by their announcement.”
“We are not going to toy with our religion or any other. Nor are we here to barter. We are here to extend our hand to build peace and harmony,” he said.
Maybe he hasn’t spoken to his wife yet?
Update: As expected, the administration made a personal appeal to Jones to stand down. The lucky cabinet member to whom the phone call was tasked? Bob Gates, who reiterated the point about not endangering the troops. No word on what Jones’s response was.










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Looks like I picked the wrong week to close my Quran toilet paper business…
Seven Percent Solution on September 9, 2010 at 8:33 PM
Sure, but think about who you’re giving your money to in each instance. You want to make a point? You’re better off not buying a Koran.
Esthier on September 9, 2010 at 8:34 PM
Well, I do not mean that it is your responsibility. I am merely pointing out the irony in that, despite the responsibility of the people in question, it is a contributing factor. It is difficult to put into words.
In any event, I do not wish to split hairs upon it, so I will simply bow out, as this matter is causing more internal strife than I care to witness. The nation’s divided enough without this being tacked on, and it’s making my head throb something fierce. Too much hot blood, myself included. X_X
_(._.)_ Thank you for your understanding about my reply.
KinleyArdal on September 9, 2010 at 8:36 PM
You’ll understand it someday. But it’s going to take some time. One mind, two ideas, etc.
azkenreid on September 9, 2010 at 8:36 PM
ok, AP has his 6 hunnert comment thread.
*you’re welcome*
ted c on September 9, 2010 at 8:37 PM
Burn that phrase into your mind.
profitsbeard on September 9, 2010 at 8:37 PM
hehehe
ted c on September 9, 2010 at 8:39 PM
The gift of Wisdom is the best gift. The gift of Discernment is the Gift of Wisdom. The gift of Judgment does not belong to us. We must walk in Faith.
That’s the hardest part.
Key West Reader on September 9, 2010 at 8:40 PM
kickoff bizzatches!
ted c on September 9, 2010 at 8:42 PM
dayumn! Saints chuck it to midfield 1st play from scrimmage.
ted c on September 9, 2010 at 8:43 PM
Let me say this, and I don’r care about being popular, whatever. The first thing you got to do is to study and to understand who you’re up against. And you must realize that this is not a religion you are fighting against, you are fighting against a theo-political belief system and construct. You’re fighting something that’s been doing this thing since 622 AD, the 7th century,1388 years.
You want to dig up Charles Martel and ask him why he was fighting the Muslim army at the Battle of Tours in 732? You want to ask the Venetian fleet at La Ponto, why they were fighting a Muslim fleet in 1571? You want to ask the Germanic and Austrian knights why they were fighting at the Gate of Vienna in 1683? You want to ask people what happened at Constantinople and why today it’s called Istanbul because they lost that fight in 1453?
You need to get into the Koran, you need to understand their precepts, you need to read the Sura, you need to read the hadiths, and then you can really understand that it’s not a perversion, they are doing exactly what this book says.
Until you get principled leadership in the United States of America that is willing to say that, we will continue to chase our tail, because we will never clearly define who this enemy is, and define, their goals and objectives, which is on any jihadists website, and then come up with the right and proper goals and objectives, to not only secure our republic, but to secure Western civilization.
KentAllard on September 9, 2010 at 8:43 PM
1st down!
ted c on September 9, 2010 at 8:43 PM
Islam specifically calls for war upon the whole world until everything and everyone is under sharia law. Islam declared war the moment it was made up by the bloodthirsty madman named mohammad.
In your opinion, judging from a lot of comments here, this act has indeed shown islam in the proper light – a very poor one.
You mean, like this?
Rebar on September 9, 2010 at 8:43 PM
Nahhh, there are at least two of us.
Ha, I laugh at it now, ’cause I know AP has a job to do. But he can be simple and crude when he’s out of sorts.
petefrt on September 9, 2010 at 8:45 PM
TD Saints!
sorry Ed.
ted c on September 9, 2010 at 8:45 PM
canopfor on September 9, 2010 at 8:30 PM
=====================
heh. purty cre8ive huh….
ted c on September 9, 2010 at 8:32 PM
ted c: True dat,hehe!!:)
canopfor on September 9, 2010 at 8:45 PM
Yeah but this preacher has other ideas…downloading the Koran on Kindling…as in wood.
JetBoy on September 9, 2010 at 8:46 PM
If we burned both, would it cause any danger to anyone at all?
Or is that only a danger when it’s Korans being burned?
didymus on September 9, 2010 at 8:46 PM
he does have forgiveness in his heart tho…
ted c on September 9, 2010 at 8:46 PM
Yeah that was quick!
JetBoy on September 9, 2010 at 8:46 PM
hey, jet—guess who I heard was going to play at Super Bowl halftime this year?
ted c on September 9, 2010 at 8:48 PM
Well?!? ;)
JetBoy on September 9, 2010 at 8:49 PM
I dunno….but it ain’t gonna be
ted c on September 9, 2010 at 8:49 PM
Did anyone notice the truther behind the pastor?
shick on September 9, 2010 at 8:50 PM
Speaking of…we used to have a commenter here called battleoflepanto1571. I enjoyed his comments – wonder what happened to him. Banned? Hope not.
Missy on September 9, 2010 at 8:50 PM
Alinsky run amok. We are all Alinsky’s now.
petefrt on September 9, 2010 at 8:51 PM
Agreed…and thank you for putting it so succinctly.
jerrytbg on September 9, 2010 at 8:51 PM
ugh…I’m from MN and my husband’s from LA. Nuff said. ;)
Missy on September 9, 2010 at 8:51 PM
I must admit, this thread is quite entertaining…
miConsevative on September 9, 2010 at 8:52 PM
I will pass your thanks on to Colonel West.
KentAllard on September 9, 2010 at 8:53 PM
A protesting truther steps behind the pastor two minutes into this recorded angle.
shick on September 9, 2010 at 8:54 PM
*smack*
Well, the Jets will be playing, and I’ll be in that stadium to see it come hell or high water…my life’s dream…better be someone good. My luck it’ll be the cast of Glee or something.
No one will ever top U2 tho.
JetBoy on September 9, 2010 at 8:54 PM
so you really know what it’s like to be “lookin’ California, but feelin’ Minnesota…?”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mML2NhjyLyU
ted c on September 9, 2010 at 8:54 PM
Koran…check, gasoline…check, matches…check, popcorn…check.
royzer on September 9, 2010 at 8:55 PM
http://muslimmatters.org/
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/
canopfor on September 9, 2010 at 8:56 PM
JB–check that! U2 at the Super Bowl in 2002 was awesome. I know its weird, but Aerosmith and Britney Spears were also pretty good in 200?..
ted c on September 9, 2010 at 8:56 PM
Heh.
Vera on September 9, 2010 at 8:59 PM
You have the arrogance to make us guess
I would know your real identity and your address
How are you so wise?
Are you Charles Martel in disguise?
The secret simply will not keep
For America is losing sleep
It’s time to break the spell
Who is Allen West and what is he up to, do tell?
Rumor has it he’s a cannoneer
He’s a reckless buccaneer
I hear he carries several guns with many clips
He’s the annihilator of Islam creeps with information on their lying at his
fingertips
They say he’s nearly seven feet tall
And yet quite graceful… … all in all
I’m told there are lightning bolts when he walks
And thunder when he talks
He’s been many times seen
Wearing DCU and then full OD green
I hear he’s steely as you please
He could be Samurai Japanese
He may be shrewd
He may be rude
Ah well, it’s hard to tell
Who is this Allen West, do tell?
The Muslims and their supporters may think he comes from hell
But he may come from somewhere just around the dell
But he will be here and he will be there
You could see him bringing Hell on Islam most any time and most anywhere
He meddles with the Islamic Devolution
Stomping them mightily throughout each week
Spoiling every Imam’s useful idiot’s lying elocution
La, what cheek!
PercyB on September 9, 2010 at 9:00 PM
Now that’s one powerful post.Thanks to those who bumped it.
Somehow we need to learn how to differentiate the good guys from the bad guys.
petefrt on September 9, 2010 at 9:01 PM
Still get a little tear in the eye watching that again…must be dusty in here or something. Staying the night in the city tomorrow with a buddy who lives in the west village, and heading to GZ early.
JetBoy on September 9, 2010 at 9:01 PM
Nope, no one will see islam as violent, right?
Right?
Rebar on September 9, 2010 at 9:03 PM
If fire melt steel, then gasoline cook good popcorn. Any fool know dat. — Rosie
petefrt on September 9, 2010 at 9:06 PM
Islam does not teach the same sort of compassion for the other that virtually every other religion including today’s “secular humanism” teaches. Muslims murder and torture each other without compunction and their own ummah, “brotherhood” has no condemnation to offer. That’s because they don’t value individual human life the way Christian westerners do. It’s not a concept in Islam, which means it’s not a concept in Muslims “hearts and minds”. Their hearts and minds instead understand what Allah teaches them in the Koran, namely, the Collective Will to Power.
When will our leaders understand this? And moreover understand that it is necessary in the end to treat Muslims in the way they themselves understand moral principles? Which ultimately means that they must be beaten back and vanquished and humiliated by a greater strength.
That is clearly what they understand. Every move to win their hearts and minds only strengthens them, emboldens them to advance their own peculiar ethics of the world, which couldn’t give a damn about “hearts and minds”, as we understand the term. They will accept the shehada from anyone they can swindle and connive to recite it while at the same time are willing to kill anyone who leaves Islam. Whatever it takes to build the army of Islamic soldiers is what their ethics is about.
There is no way of avoiding the reality that the adults in this world are going to have to act like adults and step up and slap, and in a big way, Muslims who have made of their own societies the equivalent of “Lord of the Flies” and who now threaten to overrun every more advanced society with their mayhem.
We’re going to have to come to terms this reality. Either that or it’s simply going to be cruel for all of us, with no kindness in sight, and possibly no one left to come and rescue us off an Island from Hell that in our passivity and cowardice we allowed to be taken over by moral pygmies.
Heckle on September 9, 2010 at 9:10 PM
KentAllard on September 9, 2010 at 8:43 PM
*chills*
Well said sir, well said indeed.
ExPat on September 9, 2010 at 9:10 PM
Heck, anybody with a modicum of awareness and common sense knew this was coming, given the clueless piling on of media and our so-called leaders. The only question is how high will the escalation go. I don’t see the end of it yet.
petefrt on September 9, 2010 at 9:10 PM
It did sound familiar. Brilliant man…
And a shoe in, I might add…
jerrytbg on September 9, 2010 at 9:11 PM
PercyB,
a bit long …but nice…:)
jerrytbg on September 9, 2010 at 9:16 PM
Thanks. Your comment has put me on alert that I need to move beyond what MSM tells me about it, and into some original sources. I’ve been itching to do it for a few years, so I expect it to be fun.
petefrt on September 9, 2010 at 9:23 PM
I can’t speak for azkenreid’s intentions, but Phelps has no redeeming qualities.
He came to my college when I was a student, and it was a freak show. It was like something out of the middle ages, where everyone circles around the village idiot to shout and throw rotten vegetables. The students were only there to mock, and the Phelps were just egging them on.
It saddened me as a Christian, because all those students learned was that the Gospel is some kind of joke. Then years later, when the Phelps started showing up to fallen soldiers’ funerals and tormenting their families, it did not surprise me.
It is not God’s will that Fred Phelps carries out, but someone else’s.
stefanite on September 9, 2010 at 9:23 PM
There will be people killed, regardless if the korans are burned or not, and pastor Jones will be blamed for them.
Count on it.
Rebar on September 9, 2010 at 9:23 PM
Here is how silly things can get when you live
underaround Islam.BL@KBIRD on September 9, 2010 at 9:30 PM
If fire melt steel, then gasoline cook good popcorn. Any fool know dat. — Rosie
petefrt on September 9, 2010 at 9:06 PM
petefrt: Now your cook’n with the gas!!:)
canopfor on September 9, 2010 at 9:31 PM
OT: Just saw the new “Wall Street” movie trailer….looks pretty good.
ted c on September 9, 2010 at 9:31 PM
Europe is already lost to the jihad, in 15-20 years there won’t be a Europe left, just ruins of a once great civilization and the islamic barbarians plundering it.
Rebar on September 9, 2010 at 9:34 PM
Drop it like it’s hot.
ted c on September 9, 2010 at 9:35 PM
Whats wrong with that ? Its private money
How much does a return ticket to NY cost , anyway ?
Are you OK with taxpayer money being used to fund Rauf’s trip to launder er….raise money for jihady-memorial er..er…terrormosque ..er hamasque…er Cordoba center ?
macncheez on September 9, 2010 at 9:36 PM
So, repeatedly download it and delete it? Would that be a war crime?
Maquis on September 9, 2010 at 9:42 PM
Oh stuff it. Who died and elected you God or I probably should say Allah?
Heckle on September 9, 2010 at 9:46 PM
In America, a Black male, Martin Luther King, fought for equal rights for Blacks. Just imagine how far a Muslim woman equivalent of Martin Luther King who fought for equal rights for woman would get in say Saudi Arabia. She would likely be stoned to death or beheaded.
Islam is the most retrograde force in the world. It is a absolute disgrace to mankind and an absolute abomination to womankind.
Luka on September 9, 2010 at 9:49 PM
Typical Muslims. Demand that everyone bow to their wishes and never give an inch. Oh, and lie to the infidel when possible. Makes me want to burn a Koran. But I would never condone burning a book. Better to read that piece of plagiarized scripture out loud and let everyone know how evil it really is.
fleiter on September 9, 2010 at 9:55 PM
If you cook over korans, be sure to rip off the covers first, because whether vinyl or leather, they will make a terrible stink as they burn. Might mess up your marshmallows.
slickwillie2001 on September 9, 2010 at 10:02 PM
In Islam, the peaceful, those that accept Christians and Jews as friends, the moderates, those that seek to perfect their religion by de-emphasizing violence and “building bridges”…in Islam, those are the heretics. Such will either be destroyed by their neighbors, or brought back into the fold to become a dead-again zealot, or simply permitted to breed and produce new soldiers for Allah.
As we cannot differentiate between honest heretics and Islamists practicing Taqqiya, we should deem Islam a substantial deviation from the true principles of religion, of civilization, of the basic foundational aspects of humanity itself, and shun it. Islam is not compatible with individual liberty.
In the Cold War we had to deal with Com-Symps in our ranks. In the defense of our lives and freedom from Islam, we have to deal with willful dhimmis.
Such dumb, dangerous, dhimmis.
Maquis on September 9, 2010 at 10:03 PM
Pretty much! ;) Though this game has taken a turn for the better.
Missy on September 9, 2010 at 10:08 PM
No, any blood will be on the hands of the people who carry out the action! Seriously, these people want to kill us no matter what, this guy is just an excuse just like the false flushing at GITMO was used. Please put the blame where it belongs, and that is on the hands of the individual who takes action.
bluemarlin on September 9, 2010 at 10:12 PM
Dude. That would make an awesome stripper name.
bitsy on September 9, 2010 at 10:17 PM
Sure would be nice if people were concerned about Christians being killed by Muslims. I have yet to hear President Obama express concern about this and yet he can talk about the Ground Zero Mosque and the planned Koran burning.
Blue Collar Todd on September 9, 2010 at 10:18 PM
I’m the 666th comment!
And there are 6,666 verses in the Koran.
Makes you think, eh?????????????????
profitsbeard on September 9, 2010 at 10:30 PM
Yup. Mentally challenged Islamic Rage Boy participates in scream-fests every Friday. No offense required.
Maquis on September 9, 2010 at 10:31 PM
Absolutely right.
Secondarily, blame belongs to those repellent creatures of liberalism — Gates, Patraeus, and two liberal governments. Patraeus owns the casualties as one of the leaders who drank the liberal Kool-Aid and supports the despicable ROEs. Some gall to blame one goofy preacher for the needless danger soldiers endure at the hands of liberalism the mental disorder. The blood of America’s finest is spilled to build roads for denizens of the Religion of Death.
This is human sacrifice, liberal style. It makes me want to puke.
Feedie on September 9, 2010 at 10:41 PM
I’m the 666th comment!
And there are 6,666 verses in the Koran.
Makes you think, eh?????????????????
profitsbeard on September 9, 2010 at 10:30 PM
profitsbeard: That is some spooky sh*t,ahem,haha!:)
canopfor on September 9, 2010 at 10:43 PM
I say torch that koran – let’s have the throwdown – they want to kill us – let’s get it on for real.
Northern abolitionists never accepted a culture that permitted slavery – and even considered those who held slaves to be kind of sub-human.
The Mohammedan religion – in truest form, is a religion that enslaves and even murders women. It’s a religion that sanctions “holy war”. It’s a religion that has been left on the wrong side of the AGE OF REASON.
Why should we say nice things about such a religion?
They are a bunch of temper tantrum throwing babies.
Will this hurt the troops? Curious that the Democrats are throwing this out as a rationale to kill freedom of speech when they dismissed this argument during the Bush years and said all kinds of things against our troops.
Sorry – I’m not buying it.
Somebody burn this book and show these little children there are people here in the U.S. that aren’t buying into their little caliphate.
HondaV65 on September 9, 2010 at 10:44 PM
Why doesn’t Rauf offer to build a christian church in Mecca and call on muslims to embrace christianity? Everybody wins! World Peace!
TN Mom on September 9, 2010 at 10:50 PM
If Reverend Jones is a tool,then Imam Rauf is a tool box!
MCGIRV on September 9, 2010 at 10:52 PM
Isn’t there a law against public burning of trash?
Rea1ityCheck on September 9, 2010 at 11:10 PM
Incoming!
================
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PxZyE6Jgabo/TIjNb82QsJI/AAAAAAAAkp4/WCgQWYs6VDY/s1600/theo4.gif
canopfor on September 9, 2010 at 11:11 PM
If moose-lems decide they want to build Mosque of the Red Death at Beslan, the Russians might take a dim view. Ya think?
Feedie on September 9, 2010 at 11:23 PM
I opened HA tonight and saw the 666 in red, and thought “mh?” :)
Schadenfreude on September 9, 2010 at 11:36 PM
Key West Reader on September 9, 2010 at 6:16 PM
Yes, and:
6. Showed that certain “leaders” are “cajone-less” (Palin, Romney, Beck, Coulter).
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on September 9, 2010 at 11:44 PM
Reads a little like NorK propaganda, dunnit?
DrSteve on September 9, 2010 at 11:47 PM
In the controversy over a Florida church’s plan to burn a Koran on September 11, it has been revealed the United States Army actually seized and DESTROYED copies of the BIBLE that had been translated into Pashto and Dari. I understand that the Army does not wish to be in the business of promoting religion to the Afghans and can rationally prohibit its soldiers from doing so. But why could it not have simply flown these Bibles out of Afghanistan?
Two years ago, we had a story of an Afghan who translated the Koran into Pashto and printed 1,000 copies. He was threatened with a fatwa of death and the Afghan government (our “puppet”) seized these Korans and destroyed them. That’s right – Muslims themselves destroyed 1,000 Korans.
KentAllard on September 9, 2010 at 11:52 PM
Sissy Brats of Doomed America sounds like a new toy line from the makers of South Park.
profitsbeard on September 9, 2010 at 11:52 PM
Rauf is right. They’re not here (in America) to barter. They’re here to dominate. Rauf is echoing either Bin Laden or some other muslim who is intent on destroying the West. The guy (whose name I can’t recall), said ‘we are not here to negotiate; we are here to dominate’.
BTW, when are we going to get excited about the Saudis and their destruction of Bibles and all symbols of Judaeo-Christianity, their destruction of churches–even the ones of Christians engaged in worship in their private homes? Soon?
Regardless of what I think about Jones, I support his right to burn as many korans as he can find. It is just a book.
SilentWatcher on September 9, 2010 at 11:53 PM
It reads like poetry to me.
KentAllard on September 9, 2010 at 11:55 PM
When the big picture is looked at. Islam reminds me of a virus. One cell takes over another cell and makes that a cell that takes over another cell to create another etc… etc… etc… Antibiotics can only relieve the symptoms of a infection. Left unchecked the virus will take over. Like cancer.
The most common treatment is chemotherapy where many good healthy cells are sacrificed to target the bad cells. It’s either that or death in most cases. Islam’s goals are well known and anyone who denies these goals are probably infected in some manor. The only difference between Islam and a virus is, to live with Islam you must be a virus too.
Lawrence Talbot on September 10, 2010 at 12:03 AM
Yes, we are all cells in an organism (society).
Liberalism is the AIDS that lets opportunistic infections spread. It attacks and thwarts the immune killer-cells that protect society (soldiers, police). The disease is so pervasive it afflicts all political factions — the only difference is one of degree.
Feedie on September 10, 2010 at 12:33 AM
TP
hillbillyjim on September 10, 2010 at 1:31 AM
Did we allow Nazis to build Nazi outpost in the U.S.? Did we pretend that Nazism was just another system of government?
Why do we allow Islam to build Islam outposts in the U.S.? Why do “we” pretend that Islam is just another religion?
Will Islam defeat us eventually because of – it depends on what the meaning of is, is?
Luka on September 10, 2010 at 1:51 AM
Why the burning of a quran would not trouble me:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/what_the_burning_quran_issue_s.html
Lockstein13 on September 10, 2010 at 1:53 AM
Takeaway line :
macncheez on September 10, 2010 at 2:05 AM
You bring up an interesting point, aside from our own self-deceptions.
I’ve listened carefully to some muslims who believe Islam can be re-interpreted to be non-violent or non-aggressive. Lately, it occurred to me that some practitioners engage in a giant exercise of wishful thinking. They want to make a static document mean something other than what it says. The same thing was done to our U.S. Constitution and the result is governmental chaos and injustice.
The Koran is supposed to be the final word, not subject to revision or allowance for ongoing revelations from God to Man.
The text and history are as clear as the nature of its inventor. However well meaning, proposals to twist the Koran into some desired form amount to the same liberalism that twisted our Constitution and brought our nation to the brink of ruin. Suggestions like this are non-starters, doomed by their own deception. Purists will point this out, and they will be correct.
Too bad they will do it with more violent atrocities.
Feedie on September 10, 2010 at 3:34 AM
So tired of religious extremists on both sides, but the third world land of Islam really takes the cake. Talk about screaming hordes! Ignorance, pure and simple. And after 9 years, the more sane Muslims have YET to make an impact…… religion of peace, my a**! Third world, savages.
ultracon on September 10, 2010 at 8:07 AM
Dude, they’re not even third world!
SilentWatcher on September 10, 2010 at 8:20 AM
Isn’t that what the troops are supposed to do. Put themselves in harms way so to protect America from harm at home? we have become an nation of sensitive PC pussies.
Egfrow on September 10, 2010 at 9:01 AM
“We’re not here to barter” goes into my muslim bazaar translator and comes out “make me a better offer”.
slickwillie2001 on September 10, 2010 at 9:09 AM
The American Government’s response to the proposed Koran burning has proven that we are losing the war. Remember after 9/11 all that claims of “if we do X, the terrorists have won”? Well, if our highest elected leaders feel it is necessary to grovel in front of the world to appease Muslims and avoid offending Muslims, then the terrorist have indeed won. Their violent acts have cowed America to the point that our president will drop everything and beg an unknown pastor, of a tiny church, with few followers, to refrain from engaging in the exercise of his 1st amendment rights. And, at the same time, this same president will support building a victory mosque at ground zero.
How can we claim that the terrorists have not won? We are fast sliding into dhimmnitude. It is hard to deny that we are doing everything in our power to appease Muslims in every facet of our national life. No other group, religion, or ideology gets such treatment from the government.
People can make the claims of “we shouldn’t needlessly provoke” Muslims, or that book burning is inherently wrong – but those are merely rationalizations. When it was simply some private citizens voicing such concerns to other private citizens I agreed with it. When it becomes government policy – and they have leaned heavily on this pastor (FBI visits, calls, public statements literally claiming soldier deaths will be his fault) – it goes too far by half.
First, burning books is not inherently bad. If a government burns books, it is censorship, and is bad. When a person burns books belonging to someone else, it is theft or destruction of property and is bad. When a person burns a book in a physically dangerous way, such that they may start some other fire it is bad.
But when a person burns their own book in a safe way, it is not inherently wrong. It does not censor anything, it hurts no one, and the book – thanks to the ease and cheapness of publishing – is not in danger of disappearing. Instead it is simply symbolic and has meaning only to those who give it meaning.
Second, provocation has a long tradition in this and other countries. Muslims provoke everyone throughout the world. They threaten violence constantly. They burn and destroy other religions’ symbols as official government policy (Saudi Arabia, and other countries). They refuse religious freedom in their own countries and kill apostates in other countries. They commit terrorist acts. They refuse to assimilate (taxi cab drivers refusing to take people with bottles of alcohol or guide dogs). They provoke in many other ways (ground zero mosque).
Other religions and ideologies are constantly provoked in America (Piss Christ anyone?). Mormons support Proposition 8 in California and are called haters for following the commands of their religion. Is that not religious provocation. Muslims stone homosexuals to death and are called the religion of peace.
Conservatives cannot state an opinion without a leftist calling them fascists. Is that not unreasonable provocation? There are disgusting attack ads in politics – remember the Texas murder dragging ad that implied Bush was in favor of such things?
A large political organization – MoveOn.org – took out a full page ad in the NY Times calling General Patreaus a liar and a betrayer of his country. Was that not provocation?
Jehovah’s Witnesses regularly print and distribute tracts accusing the Catholic Church and the Pope of being in league with the devil, among other things. Is that not provocation?
To claim that we should refrain in this one instance – to protect the fragile egos of Muslims, reeks of appeasement and servitude.
To claim that we should refrain in order to avoid violence is the worst kind of appeasement. We are giving them power to further their agenda by doing what they want based on their threats of violence. Isn’t this why U.S. policy is allegedly never to negotiate with terrorists? Won’t they simply commit more violence once they realize how well their tactics are working?
It is repugnant that a U.S. General would lay blame for U.S. deaths at the feet of someone burning the Koran when they would never do the same to the NY Times printing classified materials, or the left having protests against the war and telling troops to kill their officers or go AWOL.
It is repugnant that a President would get involved with a private citizen exercising his 1st amendment rights in front of the world, when he would not do the same to protect any other religion or group from insult.
Muslims also don’t like homosexuality, women uncovered, being another religion, or Jews and the state of Israel. Should we prohibit all of these things to avoid giving Muslims offense? Where is this line drawn? What other special rights do Muslims get in this country that you and I are not worthy of?
This does not mean you have to agree with burning books, or that you have to do it. But for the Government to react as it did is outrageous and dangerous. It is placing the beliefs of Muslims against the beliefs of every other kind of American. It is making Islamic law de facto law in the U.S.
Monkeytoe on September 10, 2010 at 9:57 AM
??? You don’t? The guy won’t even condemn Hamas. Exactly what would you call this guy?
darwin on September 10, 2010 at 10:28 AM
I’m thinking that burning the pastor might be a wonderfully cathartic event for Muslims and Christians.
Potfry on September 10, 2010 at 10:46 AM
As long as the Constitution is being trampled, let’s take it to the next step. Use imminent domain to seize the property where they want to build the mosque. Why not?
mechkiller_k on September 10, 2010 at 10:58 AM
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