Former RNC chief Ken Mehlman: I’m gay

posted at 6:37 pm on August 25, 2010 by Allahpundit

He says he realized it “fairly recently,” in Marc Ambinder’s words, which has Tammy Bruce chuckling on Twitter. Honestly, I thought the guy came out years ago. Remember when Bill Maher talked about the rumors surrounding him on Larry King’s show — back in 2006? I guess you were the last to know, Ken.

He’s doing this now, it seems, because he wants to drum up publicity for the cause of gay marriage and figures that “Republican whom everyone thought was gay actually is gay” headlines will do the trick. Could be, although Ambinder’s careful to remind readers of the sort of social con initiatives that the GOP pushed during Mehlman’s RNC tenure. That won’t endear him to gay activists, and his newly public identity won’t endear him to social cons. Maybe he should have just worked for gay marriage like Ted Olson and kept his orientation private?

Privately, in off-the-record conversations with this reporter over the years, Mehlman voiced support for civil unions and told of how, in private discussions with senior Republican officials, he beat back efforts to attack same-sex marriage. He insisted, too, that President Bush “was no homophobe.” He often wondered why gay voters never formed common cause with Republican opponents of Islamic jihad, which he called “the greatest anti-gay force in the world right now.”

Mehlman’s leadership positions in the GOP came at a time when the party was stepping up its anti-gay activities — such as the distribution in West Virginia in 2006 of literature linking homosexuality to atheism, or the less-than-subtle, coded language in the party’s platform (“Attempts to redefine marriage in a single state or city could have serious consequences throughout the country…”). Mehlman said at the time that he could not, as an individual Republican, go against the party consensus. He was aware that Karl Rove, President Bush’s chief strategic adviser, had been working with Republicans to make sure that anti-gay initiatives and referenda would appear on November ballots in 2004 and 2006 to help Republicans.

Mehlman acknowledges that if he had publicly declared his sexuality sooner, he might have played a role in keeping the party from pushing an anti-gay agenda.

“It’s a legitimate question and one I understand,” Mehlman said. “I can’t change the fact that I wasn’t in this place personally when I was in politics, and I genuinely regret that. It was very hard, personally.” He asks of those who doubt his sincerity: “If they can’t offer support, at least offer understanding.”

I couldn’t care less either way, but with all the buzz lately about new conservative support for gays — here’s the latest surreal episode in the Coulter/Farah HomoCon saga, incidentally — this is a bracing reminder that an openly gay RNC chief probably would still be a problem. Or would it?


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JetBoy on August 25, 2010 at 8:37 PM

That is so what I’m talking about!
Why do you suppose it is that your gay friends can’t see the dichotomy (sp) in their vitriolic response to your being conservative? What might they say if you threw their “intolerance” back at them? I’m truly curious, as this has been a very difficult question for me. I have many gay friends, but few even know I’m conservative, because I’m afraid they would no longer want to see me, and I genuinely enjoy their company. (One of the reasons for the Chewythelab moniker. Well, that and liberals that provide income for this evil capitalist!)

Chewy the Lab on August 25, 2010 at 9:22 PM

@sharrukin I believe that thread was on you claiming that there was no mainstream christian support for outlawing or criminalizing gays. Like I mentioned earlier “@cs89 considering that my senator (tom coborn) is a member and lives at their house, perhaps I have more knowledge about this than you. However they are real and I think they are a dangerous group because they justify the ends over the means. They justify infidelity among lawmakers because it’s more important to be powerful than moral. and that’s a pretty nice excuse for any bad behavior

Zekecorlain on August 25, 2010 at 9:23 PM

Memo to Mehlman:

I, and millions of other Americans, don’t care what your sexual preference is. What goes on behind closed doors between two consenting adults is private and none of my business, the government’s business or anyone elses business. Period. And many of us are getting tired of gays and lesbians seeking special civil rights due to their sexual preferences.

As far as same sex marriage is concerned, gays and lesbians have the avenue of civil unions to profess their love and fidelity and, for millenia, marriage has been between a man and a woman and same sex marriage is, in my humble view, an unnecessary attack against societies most natural institution. And, I truly believe, you would have a far more positive impact for the gay community if you would support civil unions for same sex partners and allow marriage to remain a natural institution for heterosexuals.

devolvingtowardsidiocracy on August 25, 2010 at 9:26 PM

Yeah, just like abortion is finally a non issue. All these moral issues just go away over time. At least that’s what immoral people always say.

JellyToast on August 25, 2010 at 6:45 PM

People choose to have irresponsible sexual relationships an they choose to employ abortion as a mean to deal with the consequences. No one choices to be gay.

year_of_the_dingo on August 25, 2010 at 9:26 PM

sharrukin I believe that thread was on you claiming that there was no mainstream christian support for outlawing or criminalizing gays.

No, actually what I said is that no one can kill gays and get a slap on the wrist for doing so. That obviously doesn’t include Iran, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc.

However they are real and I think they are a dangerous group because they justify the ends over the means. They justify infidelity among lawmakers because it’s more important to be powerful than moral. and that’s a pretty nice excuse for any bad behavior

Zekecorlain on August 25, 2010 at 9:23 PM

Do you have a shred of evidence that this group even exists, much less that it is engaged in the activities you are suggesting?

sharrukin on August 25, 2010 at 9:27 PM

Don’t shut us out. Again, we’re all on the same political side. Gay marriage and repeal of DADT? Maybe not. But we can at least talk about it. On most every other issue, gay conservatives are with you. We’re not the enemy.

JetBoy on August 25, 2010 at 8:37 PM

I completely agree, though I think you know that already. I also agree with others who seem to be saying that you somewhat contradict yourself. On the one hand, people assume you’re a liberal because you are gay, on the other, you admit to being ostracized by other gays for being a conservative.

But then, that’s one of the things I like about you really. You are who you are, even though it means you get little support from any side. I have a lot of respect for anyone going against the grain of their assumed positions. It takes courage and a greater understanding of self.

I can relate just not to the same degree.

Esthier on August 25, 2010 at 9:27 PM

No one choices to be gay.

year_of_the_dingo on August 25, 2010 at 9:26 PM

Bullspit!

darwin-t on August 25, 2010 at 9:28 PM

@Chewy the Lab perhaps throwing things in peoples faces isn’t the best ways for friends to have a discussion about politics. (I say as I sit on a blog channel.)

Zekecorlain on August 25, 2010 at 9:29 PM

Zekecorlain on August 25, 2010 at 9:18 PM

IMO, you are confusing two different things (respectfully, of course.) States rights and constitutional issues. I have read the prop 8 challenge and the ruling, and IMO that is one of the purest cases of legislating from the bench. Secondly, several states have said that gay marriage is legal…so go to that friggin’ state, get married, and get the ayef over yourownself! If it is THAT important, a little thing like change of address shouldn’t be that much of a hardship…if it is, you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Ditto with the adoption issue. IMO, this is exactly the reason we have a FEDERAL right to abortion. If it had been left up to the states, well, if a woman were hellbent on getting an abortion, she might have to travel across state lines, but, that doesn’t mean she couldn’t abtain an abortion. The more difficult we make it, the rarer the occurance, and I would also have a right to live in a state that says the practice is wrong.

Chewy the Lab on August 25, 2010 at 9:34 PM

So what, Mehlman? I’m not. Next.

DaMav on August 25, 2010 at 9:36 PM

@sharrukin I’m assuming of course you didn’t wiki it? or follow up on any of the footnotes and links? or the other articles on it?
Also I already refuted that “no one can do it and get a slap on the wrist” It’s happened time and again, even in high profile cases like Harvey Milk.

Zekecorlain on August 25, 2010 at 9:37 PM

Bullspit!

darwin-t on August 25, 2010 at 9:28 PM

Spoken with the certitude of a man with a multitude of empirical experience.

year_of_the_dingo on August 25, 2010 at 9:39 PM

@Chewy your moving the goal posts, you said you were unaware of anyone advocating those things.

Zekecorlain on August 25, 2010 at 9:39 PM

Yes. That’s nice. Mazel tov.
Now… can we get back to all the problems we are facing in this country?

Sayan Neviot on August 25, 2010 at 9:41 PM

So he’s gay,so what,next issue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

canopfor on August 25, 2010 at 9:45 PM

Old news. I’ve known that for years. The Mehlman/Bush/Rove wrecking crew did more to damage the GOP than did Richard Nixon. The GOP hasn’t recovered yet and possibly may never recover. DD

Darvin Dowdy on August 25, 2010 at 9:47 PM

Zekecorlain on August 25, 2010 at 9:39 PM

um, no my friend, I don’t think I’m moving any goalposts, but let me give another example on the other side:
Suppose I am straight and married to a spendthrift, lazyazzed, goodfernuthin so and so. I inherit a boat load of money and DON’t want my spouse to inherit my chit…I have to jump through a few extra legal hoops to ensure that doesn’t happen, such as setting up a trust fund to ensure he doesn’t get his mitts on my dough. If I want that, I jump through them hoops, do I not????
Gays have exactly these same rights. Am I wrong? Any of you legal eagles care to comment??

Chewy the Lab on August 25, 2010 at 9:48 PM

No one choices to be gay.

year_of_the_dingo on August 25, 2010 at 9:26 PM

I’m not sure I agree with that either. I certainly believe some do. I’ve even talked to some gay people who believe it’s a choice, or at least that they personally made a choice. Whether or not all do though or if even a minority do is a completely different issue.

Esthier on August 25, 2010 at 9:49 PM

Zekecorlain on August 25, 2010 at 9:39 PM

Also, forgot to add: No, I don’t know anyone advocating these things. Are there those out there advocating as you say, shur’nuff!
Because there are those advocating that, does that give you the right to cry “foul?” Grow up and know they are bigotted, and quit saying because folks iz agin’ ya, you are oppressed.

Chewy the Lab on August 25, 2010 at 9:52 PM

For the sake of the country, I sure hope there aren’t many “quick” studies like the two of you.

xblade on August 25, 2010 at 7:54 PM

For the sake of America there had better be, because picking fights over bull-shite like who gets to marry who is a sure way to lose elections and doom us all to ruin from the tender mercies of jackasses like Obama, Pelosi and Reid.

MJBrutus on August 25, 2010 at 9:53 PM

So when is Obama coming out?

BuckeyeSam on August 25, 2010 at 8:53 PM

Indeed. His wife, along with being the First Eggplant and the cartoon of Lois Cook, is the beard of the century.

RushBaby on August 25, 2010 at 9:59 PM

Are you guys really so naive that you think no other high Republican mucky muck was gay in our entire history? Of course there have been. They just didn’t tell anyone.

Speedwagon82 on August 25, 2010 at 10:00 PM

Are you guys really so naive that you think no other high Republican mucky muck was gay in our entire history? Of course there have been. They just didn’t tell anyone.

Speedwagon82 on August 25, 2010 at 10:00 PM

Uh, thanks for the hot tip there speedy!

We know.

And we don’t care.

sharrukin on August 25, 2010 at 10:03 PM

Guys and gals…It all boils down to this: give gay conservatives a chance. The minute you see any kind of “takeover” by the gays, shout it out. That’s not what we’re aiming at.

Sure, I get enough guff around here for just being gay, but it does not compare to the vile trash I get thrown at me by my fellow gays when they find out I’m a conservative republican. Lemme tell ya, it ain’t pretty. “Don’t you know those people hate you?” I get…

Well, I believe conservatives need to act like the CPAC crowd from last year, when Ryan Sorba condemned CPAC for inviting GOProud. He was met with boos and jeers. Gay conservatives want in on the cause.

Don’t shut us out. Again, we’re all on the same political side. Gay marriage and repeal of DADT? Maybe not. But we can at least talk about it. On most every other issue, gay conservatives are with you. We’re not the enemy.

JetBoy on August 25, 2010 at 8:37 PM

This conservagay co-signs this, with one exception:

I’m a Civil Unions kinda queen.

Other than that, I agree with ya, JB. You just waste too much energy on here fighting for gay marriage and it does ya little favors.

lansing quaker on August 25, 2010 at 10:09 PM

CWforFreedom on August 25, 2010 at 9:12 PM

I’m always honest with my partners. You can’t help but take it to this level every time, but that’s OK, it makes sense given how little you actually matter in this world. Taking swipes at people online is all you’ve got to make yourself feel better about life, which is sad. Do try and get out more.

Anyway, like I said before, go fight sharia, leave the gays alone.

ernesto on August 25, 2010 at 10:11 PM

lansing quaker on August 25, 2010 at 10:09 PM

Civil Unions is one thing.

Homosexual marriage is nothing more than Cultural Vandalism in my book.

You can have Civil Unions tomorrow or Gay Marriage 20 years from now.

Holger on August 25, 2010 at 10:12 PM

we don’t care.

sharrukin on August 25, 2010 at 10:03 PM

Well, we raise our eyebrows. But ultimately, you’re right. We don’t care.

We’re don’t want to be about government authority over any couple’s (or group’s) private, consensual, adult activities.

Truly, the squick factor is the absolute worst when I picture some damnable self-righteous government bunch SPYING, then SINGLING OUT people who made the UNPARDONABLE mistake of being both AFFECTIONATE and UNWARY.

Yeah, social cons, that’s the way we want our fellow citizens to exist./

RushBaby on August 25, 2010 at 10:16 PM

Taking swipes at people online is all you’ve got to make yourself feel better about life, which is sad. Do try and get out more.

ernesto on August 25, 2010 at 10:11 PM

You’re not one to talk. You don’t even discriminate with your swipes.

Esthier on August 25, 2010 at 10:17 PM

RushBaby on August 25, 2010 at 10:16 PM

Well I don’t agree with it, but I am sure the homosexuals out there will somehow find a way to go on with their lives without my approval.

sharrukin on August 25, 2010 at 10:24 PM

Only 2 strains of HIV out there; and 4 sub types; and 9 or so sub-subtypes.

And if you look around you’ll find stats showing that homosexual men make up 40% of the HIV contraction rate in the USA.

Wait until one of those strains, sub types or sub-subtypes becomes communicable like the common cold or the flu.

Who cares? Just don’t donate blood.

BowHuntingTexas on August 25, 2010 at 10:26 PM

Other than that, I agree with ya, JB. You just waste too much energy on here fighting for gay marriage and it does ya little favors.

lansing quaker on August 25, 2010 at 10:09 PM

Actually, this is not true. It takes persistent, polite, and charming people to persuade others, especially in a written format such as this. It can take years to convert someone to a different POV, and JB has the magic.

RushBaby on August 25, 2010 at 10:27 PM

If they can fund raise and practice better message control than the current RNC Chair…

rjd27 on August 25, 2010 at 10:29 PM

Not only do I not care. It is not my business who someone else likes to get naked with.

watson007 on August 25, 2010 at 10:30 PM

Who cares? Nothing to see here. Move along in an orderly fashion, please. Gay marriage is a red herring issue that should not sidetrack the conservative message of smaller government, smaller government, and smaller government. Anyone need for me to repeat that?

College Prof on August 25, 2010 at 10:31 PM

A person may very well not choose to have same-sex attraction. Just as a person may not choose opposite-sex attraction. Even so, same-sex attraction is always a disordered attraction and plays itself out in hugely significant patterns of promiscuity, pornography and physical disease, in what is statiscally the rule rather than the exception.

Please note that when I say disordered attraction or acts, I am speaking of the attraction or acts – NOT the person.

Where does free choice come into play? When the attraction is chosen to be ACTED upon: in the playing out of impure actions in the mind, or physically.

A unmarried heterosexual man or woman, if they are to also be true to Christ’s teachings, does not choose to act upon his or her attraction, in mind or physically, absent marriage. If he or she does, these acts or thoughts too, are impure.

There is no free ride for anyone when it comes to choosing a life within or without Christ’s boundaries, which are really our boundaries, since He made us.

And whether one believes this or not, lives this or not, if one is over the age of thirty, one knows that the consequences of our choices will be reaped in our lives and in our bodies, for good or ill, happiness or sorrow.

And that personal journey, which we all make together, that struggle for purity, integrity and wholeness, is made by all of us, homo or hetero.

And that’s where we should be supporting each other. In our quest to become fully integrated in our being, as God intended for us to be, despite our weaknesses, whether in the sexual realm or any other.

We shouldn’t be supporting each other in sin, which is just a life of lost opportunity and lost human freedom. Homo or hetero, we shouldn’t “support” each other’s failings under the banner of false compassion, fear of being judged “judgemental” or proclaiming it’s ok because it’s between 2 consenting adults. Or three or six or more, for that matter. Why limit to two if you take that tack to begin with. Sexual sin is just a dreary prison on a dead-end street, no matter who you are.

Neither should we shun or judge each other. Our goal should be unity and solidarity with each other, encouraging each other not to sin, but to be our best, most pure, most child-like in joy and innocence, most open to goodness and life, most able to be truly free and to use our God given talents and gifts freely to help each other.

That’s how a “big-tent” truly bears good fruit. For ALL of us.

tigerlily on August 25, 2010 at 10:35 PM

So what if he is? The Government doesn’t belong in anyone’s sex life as long as both parties are of legal age and consenting.

BobM88 on August 25, 2010 at 10:37 PM

Breaking News: Ken Mehlman tells women voters that when they were buying George Michael’s records as teenagers – he really was into them back then.

Put me in the Mehhh camp. I think Allah nailed it, the fact no one cares (or was surprised) is a good sign for the GOP.

Kaisersoze on August 25, 2010 at 10:37 PM

This, in a lot of ways, exposes leftist bigotry. They presume that opposition to gay marriage is rooted in hatred of gays. That’s a bigoted presumption. There are gays who do not support gay marriage because of their views on marriage as a social institution. Saying that gays have to support gay marriage is like saying that blacks have to support affirmative action or they’re not really black. That’s bigotry.

JohnJ on August 25, 2010 at 10:39 PM

I don’t care except to say that as a Christian I beleive that it will lead to his destruction and that is sad. But if that is what he chooses to do I’m in no position to “hurt” him nor do I want to. But he can hurt me by pushing for policies that if made into law would hurt my right of praticing my religion and possible lead to other unpleasant things for me. So go be gay but don’t think I’ll support gay marriage and other gay agenda items that are really intended to turn Christians into lawbreakers…

CCRWM on August 25, 2010 at 10:48 PM

ROFl….ok who didn’t know this?

unseen on August 25, 2010 at 10:59 PM

I don’t care except to say that as a Christian I beleive that it will lead to his destruction and that is sad. But if that is what he chooses to do I’m in no position to “hurt” him nor do I want to. But he can hurt me by pushing for policies that if made into law would hurt my right of praticing my religion and possible lead to other unpleasant things for me. So go be gay but don’t think I’ll support gay marriage and other gay agenda items that are really intended to turn Christians into lawbreakers…

CCRWM

Are you able to say that his sins are worse than yours? I am pretty sure there is a whole list of 10 sins, Kens particular “sin” is not listed as one of them. I have known lots of heterosexuals who have committed most of that list. Wouldnt they be of more concern?

Unbridled Divorce is going to lead to a societies destruction long long before people with a case of teh ghey will.

firepilot on August 25, 2010 at 11:01 PM

Esthier on August 25, 2010 at 10:17 PM

I’m not following individuals around, lying about particular aspects of their personal life, on one of a million blogs (like CW here, whose got to be either retired or a full time student, given how much time he has to post on so many different websites). I couldn’t give a damn about anyone’s personal life on here, I keep it strictly to political comments. That CW can’t do that, and has to go all high school lunchroom on people, seems much worse.

ernesto on August 25, 2010 at 11:02 PM

Unbridled Divorce is going to lead to a societies destruction long long before people with a case of teh ghey will.

firepilot on August 25, 2010 at 11:01 PM

Unbridled divorce being wrong doesn’t make the homosexual political agenda right.

sharrukin on August 25, 2010 at 11:05 PM

Unbridled divorce being wrong doesn’t make the homosexual political agenda right.

sharrukin on August 25, 2010 at 11:05 PM

It certainly doesn’t.

However it doesn’t preclude the fact that legal divorce (the dissolution of a license) is a secular matter and as easy as closing a credit card, fiduciary wars aside.

On the flip-side, acquiring a same-sex union license (or opposite-sex marriage license) is just as simple and convenient.

You cannot sanctify the acquisition of acquiring a license no more than you can secularize the dissolution of it. We’re talking licenses — not morals.

lansing quaker on August 25, 2010 at 11:10 PM

I’m not sure I agree with that either. I certainly believe some do. I’ve even talked to some gay people who believe it’s a choice, or at least that they personally made a choice. Whether or not all do though or if even a minority do is a completely different issue.

Esthier on August 25, 2010 at 9:49 PM

It’s not an issue you have to consult your gay friends with. You’re an human being. Just ask yourself, your attraction to the opposite sex (I’m assuming you’re heterosexual here), a choice that you made at some point? As a man who’s attracted to attractive women, this notion that I could make some sort of conscious choice to forsaken nice, soft boobs and smooth long legs in pursuit of…uhhh…is freaking absurd.

year_of_the_dingo on August 25, 2010 at 11:19 PM

We’re talking licenses — not morals.

lansing quaker on August 25, 2010 at 11:10 PM

That is not something most conservatives believe. The no fault divorce laws have done tremendous damage to a great number of people, both adults and children. That is not a morally neutral act, be it secular or otherwise.

sharrukin on August 25, 2010 at 11:20 PM

No one choices to be gay.

year_of_the_dingo on August 25, 2010 at 9:26 PM

You mean “chooses.”
But come on, you really believe that? In all seriousness?
Even if I were gay and I thought people were born that way, I’d still think some people did simply made the choice, took the plunge and decided to be gay.

I have a question? How come straight people can one day realize they are gay, but you never hear about gay people suddenly realizing they are straight? Why is that? If that happened, would it bother you? In the gay community, isn’t that a thing to be frowned upon? Don’t gays get really upset if some gay friend decides one day he’s not gay anymore? That he doesn’t like it and wants to be straight?

JellyToast on August 25, 2010 at 11:24 PM

It’s not an issue you have to consult your gay friends with. You’re an human being. Just ask yourself, your attraction to the opposite sex (I’m assuming you’re heterosexual here), a choice that you made at some point? As a man who’s attracted to attractive women, this notion that I could make some sort of conscious choice to forsaken nice, soft boobs and smooth long legs in pursuit of…uhhh…is freaking absurd.

year_of_the_dingo on August 25, 2010 at 11:19 PM

Children who have been abused tend to be more likely to be homosexuals than otherwise. That suggests that they are not born that way, but socialized by the abuse.

sharrukin on August 25, 2010 at 11:26 PM

Unbridled divorce being wrong doesn’t make the homosexual political agenda right.

sharrukin

Nope, but last I checked, social conservatives get a whole lot more worked up about gay people, than they do about the effects of divorce upon society.

They will put far more effort into preaching against homosexuality, even though a very small number of people are gay, and who actually on average are often better educated, than they do about the massive effects of divorce and the broken American family

By the amount of effort put into railing against Gays, you think that it something that has been steadily increasing in amount and breaking up families. Oh but thats divorce, the church approves of that however.

firepilot on August 25, 2010 at 11:27 PM

Nope, but last I checked, social conservatives get a whole lot more worked up about gay people, than they do about the effects of divorce upon society.

firepilot on August 25, 2010 at 11:27 PM

People tend to get worked up about things they can change more than things they can’t. At least conservatives do, liberals are different.

Divorce laws aren’t going to be changed unless something very radical happens in society.

sharrukin on August 25, 2010 at 11:29 PM

Why did we need to find out about his sex life? Isn’t that his business? Oh! We have to find out because he wants us to change to suit his minority demands.

SilentWatcher on August 25, 2010 at 11:30 PM

Great, I’m happy too. – Oh, you mean you’re sexually attracted to male genitalia.
And what exactly does that have to do with anything?!

The Zoo Keeper on August 25, 2010 at 11:40 PM

Sorry, busy bodies get worked up about gays. True conservatives believe in personal freedoms, making it none of our damn business to stick our nose in other people’s personal affairs.

Until that point gets drummed into the heads of the busy bodies, democRats will hold serve.

MarkT on August 25, 2010 at 11:41 PM

Less mincing, more prancing.

BL@KBIRD on August 25, 2010 at 11:50 PM

This guy’s a tool. It’s hard to respect the namby-pamby gays when many brave gays fought for their rights (before the gay agenda went totally haywire) years and years ago.

I’m best friends with a Conservative gay and he believes in all I believe in. Gays are welcome…they just don’t think they are, don’t want to be judged or called on the poisonous trappings many gays fall into and have no clue that a conservative life is healthier and happier for them.

Gays and blacks believe they don’t have a place at the Conservative table because of the lies the left proliferates. If they were open-minded enough to check it out, they’d see it’s a much better side to be on.

Gob on August 25, 2010 at 11:52 PM

GOProud is leading the way on this, invited to the next CPAC as well.

Gays are ostracized…

JetBoy on August 25, 2010 at 7:50 PM

And look who CPAC 2010 was mostly populated by and popular with: gays and Paulsters and some rather militants, mostly females, who are ashamed of social Conservatives.

And you’re claiming that “gays are ostracized”? I don’t see any correlation there, but with CPAC, and GOProud, that group brags that it’s purpose is to advance the ‘homosexual agenda’ so there’s little Conservative (or respectful) about them.

CPAC has become the synonym of ‘circus’.

Lourdes on August 25, 2010 at 11:57 PM

Children who have been abused tend to be more likely to be homosexuals than otherwise. That suggests that they are not born that way, but socialized by the abuse.

sharrukin on August 25, 2010 at 11:26 PM

Ah, but correlation is not causation. If A is oft observed occurring along side B, does it mean that A causes B, or B causes A? In the case discussed presently, does abuse lead to homosexuality, or are homosexual children abused more? That’s a question that we cannot answer from statistics alone. All we can do is make an evaluation based upon the purported mechanism. How does a boy go from being abused to…umm…having a fondness for warm popstickles? I don’t see a logical pathway here. The alternative explanation seems far more plausible, that gay sexual predators have a freer hand because they know their victims would be deterred by the social taboos from reporting them to the authority.

year_of_the_dingo on August 25, 2010 at 11:58 PM

Gob on August 25, 2010 at 11:52 PM

Individuals don’t fall for the nonsense of typecasting.

Lourdes on August 25, 2010 at 11:59 PM

Everyone knew Mehlman was gay. This is not news.
The news is Republicans want to disarm the Democratic Party by taking the steam out of the issues they use to demonize the Republicans in general and the conservatives specifically

LeeSeneca on August 26, 2010 at 12:00 AM

JetBoy on August 25, 2010 at 7:50 PM

Do you really think most of us don’t know homosexuals?

Where do you get such a narrow idea of conservatives?

sharrukin on August 25, 2010 at 8:01 PM

@ sharrukin: it’s the victimology mentality. When you’re using the victim-class tag to wage causes, whatever, you view others in classes of a variety of kinds, too (just excluded from your particular victim-class) (by “your” and “you” I am not referring to you, sharrukin, but in the general sense to one-who-behaves-as-described).

So “Conservatives” become a class that is viewed in generalities, etc.

JetBoy isn’t Conservative, he’s Liberal. He’s a Leftwinger, his views are filtered through Marx class-warfare perspectives. The Left has little to argue when they don’t or can’t use the prejudicial process of viewing humanity via classes.

Lourdes on August 26, 2010 at 12:02 AM

hmm how to explain this, there are different kinds of gays, some gays like me have never been attracted to a female and some that seem to turn that way due to abuse or other more esoteric reasons. To further confuse things female and male sexuality are different female sexuality is more fluid and seems to allow them some control over sensuality and sexualism. That is why female homosexuality is viewed differently by male gays than some of their straight counterparts. Than there is the level of gayness some gays are attracted to only one to their gender forever and some span the range of bisexual. There are accounts of out gay men eventually marrying women. Human sexuality is not just a black and white phenomenon. I hesitate to even bring this up because many will latch on to the wrong point. Gay people debate this point and many others constantly among themselves because it is of extreme interest to us in understanding ourselves. Being outside the mainstream allows us to look back on the full structure and marvel at it’s complexity and perverseness. Gay sex is pleasurable because it is pleasurable, not just because we are gay. Many straight men and women enjoy and practice every form of sex that us gays do. Straight porn stars do gay scenes all the time, it’s not about the sex it’s about the ability or inability to have deep and romantic relationships. Gay men consummate their relationships with sex just like straights, for straights to take offense at that while misunderstanding the nature of the relationships is at times the most hurtful part of anti-gay rhetoric. When straights go on talking about gays marrying straights as a solution to their problems it’s confusing, do you want women trapped in relationships where the man simply can’t feel and can’t reciprocate their spouses emotions? Should all gays suffer because some gays can have sex with women? Many gays have a biological and social needs to raise a family. it’ isn’t play acting it isn’t for show. I want to have a family, I want kids to fuss over and suffer for, I want a family for myself, for my parents, and for the joy of having kids. (not just for those reasons but so many more.) I don’t want to have to try and hope that legal contracts and wills, and whatever hoops i have to jump for a surrogate or the adoption process work in my favor. I want the rights that all my fellow citizens share and as a tax paying citizen i have every right to pursue those aims through legislative, judicial, or social avenues. After careful revue I changed from being fine with civil unions to wanting full marriage rights. Separate is not equal and what i can provide the community and the nation is equal. Don’t argue theological points in a secular matter. I am not a member of your religion I do not expect to be judged as if I was trying to be a member. Gays have been around for all of recorded history we aren’t unnatural. We’re just fellow citizens of a great country trying to be full citizens.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:03 AM

True conservatives believe in personal freedoms, making it none of our damn business to stick our nose in other people’s personal affairs.

True conservatives believe in personal decorum, making it none of their damn business to stick our nose in their personal affairs.

The Zoo Keeper on August 26, 2010 at 12:04 AM

In the case discussed presently, does abuse lead to homosexuality, or are homosexual children abused more?

That is rather close to ‘they were asking for it’ and I think it is total nonsense.

All we can do is make an evaluation based upon the purported mechanism. How does a boy go from being abused to…umm…having a fondness for warm popstickles? I don’t see a logical pathway here.

And yet there are perfectly logical pathways for girls who grow up with abusive fathers who gravitate towards abusive relationships.

The alternative explanation seems far more plausible, that gay sexual predators have a freer hand because they know their victims would be deterred by the social taboos from reporting them to the authority.

year_of_the_dingo on August 25, 2010 at 11:58 PM

Which does nothing to address the point that they are not born that way. You would have me believe that pedophiles would selectively choose to abuse ‘born homosexuals’ and avoid straight boys when they had the opportunity.

It doesn’t even come close to holding water.

sharrukin on August 26, 2010 at 12:04 AM

Everyone knew Mehlman was gay. This is not news.

The news is Republicans want to disarm the Democratic Party by taking the steam out of the issues they use to demonize the Republicans in general and the conservatives specifically

LeeSeneca on August 26, 2010 at 12:00 AM

The GOP does this and does this again and again they snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

In other words, the GOP as to “management” continues to think that if they just become Democrats, then, hey, they win. Err, sumthin’ like that.

Lourdes on August 26, 2010 at 12:05 AM

sharrukin on August 26, 2010 at 12:04 AM

Good post.

Lourdes on August 26, 2010 at 12:06 AM

@Gob being a conservative gay I can say that the republican party has made few if any attempts to court the gays. In fact using gays as a wedge issue in 2004 seriously hurt any credibility that conservative gays could muster with gays on the left. Ted Olson has done more for the conservative gay movement than all the republicans combined. Until the Republicans stop pandering to the extremely religious than little can change. This is what I advocate and what I practice.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:08 AM

JetBoy isn’t Conservative, he’s Liberal. He’s a Leftwinger, his views are filtered through Marx class-warfare perspectives. The Left has little to argue when they don’t or can’t use the prejudicial process of viewing humanity via classes.

Lourdes on August 26, 2010 at 12:02 AM

I think he has conservative tendencies, but yeah I agree his instinct seems to be to judge people by groups rather than as individuals. That is why I don’t think ‘gay groups’ can advance conservative causes anymore than any other group that defines itself in such a way. Identity politics and conservatism don’t mix well.

sharrukin on August 26, 2010 at 12:09 AM

We’re just fellow citizens of a great country trying to be full citizens.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:03 AM

If you’re “just fellow citizens” then what’s with the ongoing lectures on Life As A Homosexual?

People in general don’t want to read time and time again ongoing lectures on your habits, wants, what you prefer and why you do what you do as to your sexuality. I think there’re a few groups on places like LiveJournal for that but otherwise, the general public doesn’t appreciate the ongoing Gay Propaganda.

I call it Propaganda because it appears that many involved in homosexuality really enjoy printing up a lot of information about their private matters and then exposing it to anyone who might happen upon a comment stream here and there and over there and then again there and there, an…

For people who chose behaviors as you do, why do you also have such a need to make sure everyone else, anyone else, know all about those behaviors?

Lourdes on August 26, 2010 at 12:10 AM

I don’t think ‘gay groups’ can advance conservative causes anymore than any other group that defines itself in such a way. Identity politics and conservatism don’t mix well.

sharrukin on August 26, 2010 at 12:09 AM

Yes, agreed, and again, great comments.

Lourdes on August 26, 2010 at 12:11 AM

Ted Olson has done more for the conservative gay movement

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:08 AM

And here I fell for the story that he was an attorney.

Lourdes on August 26, 2010 at 12:12 AM

Ted Olson has done more for the conservative gay movement

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:08 AM

And here I fell for the story that he was an attorney.

Lourdes on August 26, 2010 at 12:12 AM

And what, specifically, is “the conservative gay movement”?

I suppose one could argue that there are reverent icicles but it wouldn’t make a nonsense phrase mean anything but nonsense.

Lourdes on August 26, 2010 at 12:15 AM

Put me in the Mehhh camp. I think Allah nailed it, the fact no one cares (or was surprised) is a good sign for the GOP.

Kaisersoze on August 25, 2010 at 10:37 PM

Yes, agreed.

Lourdes on August 26, 2010 at 12:16 AM

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:03 AM

Look, I agree with your comments regarding sexuality and it is not as simple as many would like to believe.

However, why should conservatives ‘court ‘ homosexuals? Why do you have to be seen as a homosexual conservative rather than as an individual? I don’t think of myself as a ‘straight conservative’. Why this need to have your sexuality a part of your political identity?

We all have things denied to us based on any number of factors. My being male means that some things are closed off to me and I have no problem with that, nor do I demand that society change to suit my whims.

sharrukin on August 26, 2010 at 12:18 AM

@lourdes i know you from these boards, I understand your position and perhaps you will always consider education as propaganda. I don’t share things because it gives me perverse pleasure I share because a lot of people really don’t understand the difference between gay sex and gay relationships. You seem to be fixated on the sex part, I am not. If you can’t understand Ted Olson’s point than perhaps you should read more of what he says.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:19 AM

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:08 AM

Zeke, it’s NOT the Conservatives jobs to lure gay individuals…you go where your values lie. My Conservative gay friend didn’t look for an invite to see he belonged…he found out his values were more in step with the Conservatives than the phony Liberals. Identity politics is for frauds!

Gob on August 26, 2010 at 12:20 AM

People in general don’t want to read time and time again ongoing lectures on your habits, wants, what you prefer and why you do what you do as to your sexuality.

Lourdes on August 26, 2010 at 12:10 AM

A lot of people are growing tired of it.

sharrukin on August 26, 2010 at 12:21 AM

year_of_the_dingo on August 25, 2010 at 11:19 PM

Well, there’s a great deal of proven information that establishes that male is “attracted to” female and vice-versa.

But there’s nothing ever established that proves ‘same sex’ attraction, other than the realm of decision or individual will (that is, that it’s behavioral).

As to males being attracted to females, there’s a vast amount of science to support that it is, indeed, motivated by organics and why it is. The realm of the mind is an added plus in that attraction but it begins in the organic nature of life.

Homosexuality, however, begins in the mind. A person fixes on a behavior and then makes a decision to engage it or not, but the entire identity of the issue is a behavioral one, an affect of mentality, not organics.

Lourdes on August 26, 2010 at 12:25 AM

@lourdes i know you from these boards, I understand your position and perhaps you will always consider education as propaganda. I don’t share things because it gives me perverse pleasure I share because a lot of people really don’t understand the difference between gay sex and gay relationships. You seem to be fixated on the sex part, I am not. If you can’t understand Ted Olson’s point than perhaps you should read more of what he says.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:19 AM

I realize you are a liar but your dedication to stupid is shocking.

Lourdes on August 26, 2010 at 12:27 AM

@sharrukin I don’t choose identity politics, I use labels to try and explain positions. I am an individual being gay is just part of that, but because i am attacked for simply being gay I attempt to use social networks to gain protection from these groups and laws. You may not intentionally treat sexuality as an aspect of your personae but i can assure you that it plays a part in your world view. Choosing to be openly gay comes with it’s consequences but it also helps expand awareness of the commonality of our existence since many choose to pretend I don’t exist as a person with real needs. Many try to blind their children to the fact that gays exist, this is in fact a goal of many like Focus on the family, this goal is counter to the knowledge that the more people realize that gays are part of their lives they can be convinced that we are an insignificant part of the social fabric. They than turn and pass laws to criminalize my being and practices. They are open in this desire and I am open in my desire to thwart them.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:28 AM

You seem to be fixated on the sex part, I am not.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:19 AM

You just posted a lengthy comment here all about your sexual needs and behaviors and such.

People are sick of reading it and your imposition on the general public in that regard is both common for people who share your homosexual behaviors, and, it’s irrational. Somewhat perverse, in my view, that you’d post as you do.

Lourdes on August 26, 2010 at 12:29 AM

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:28 AM

Oh, for Heaven’s sake, have you just come home from Homosexuality 101 and are sharing your lecture notes with the public here?

Lourdes on August 26, 2010 at 12:30 AM

@Gob I can’t rationally support candidates that call for the criminalization of my being. I often end up supporting candidates that i may not like but that i can count on not to make my situation worse. Rep’s like Sally Kern make it difficult for me to vote for republicans that court the church vote and yes I live in oklahoma. I simply got tired of republicans claiming to be conservative when in fact they were devoted to religious pontification.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:33 AM

@lourdes realy we are in a forum about gays If you don’t want to be here I am sure there are other comment threads you could go to.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:35 AM

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:28 AM

Zeke, the real victims of TRUE discrimination in 2010 are the transexuals.

Gays have long fought for their acceptance and have gained so much in the 30 years I’ve witnessed (happily) their acceptance in society. It’s a hell of a difference from 1980 than 2010.

Transexuals on the other hand…what they have to endure is truely depressing. In the past I may have felt very sorry for the gays plight, but now that they have come so far, my sympathies lie exclusively with the transexuals.

Gob on August 26, 2010 at 12:37 AM

No one choices to be gay.

year_of_the_dingo on August 25, 2010 at 9:26 PM

You mean “chooses.”
But come on, you really believe that? In all seriousness?
Even if I were gay and I thought people were born that way, I’d still think some people did simply made the choice, took the plunge and decided to be gay.

JellyToast on August 25, 2010 at 11:24 PM

I hope not to be vulgar here, but to simply be blunt…what man would choose another man’s hairy ass over a woman by choice?

BobM88 on August 26, 2010 at 12:39 AM

sharrukin I don’t choose identity politics, I use labels to try and explain positions. I am an individual being gay is just part of that, but because i am attacked for simply being gay I attempt to use social networks to gain protection from these groups and laws.

How do I know you are homosexual?

I know because you won’t stop telling me.

Do you know if I prefer blonds, or brunettes?

You have no idea.

You may not intentionally treat sexuality as an aspect of your personae but i can assure you that it plays a part in your world view.

Of course its a part of who I am, but that doesn’t mean it defines me politically.

Choosing to be openly gay comes with it’s consequences but it also helps expand awareness of the commonality of our existence since many choose to pretend I don’t exist as a person with real needs. Many try to blind their children to the fact that gays exist, this is in fact a goal of many like Focus on the family, this goal is counter to the knowledge that the more people realize that gays are part of their lives they can be convinced that we are an insignificant part of the social fabric.

You are an insignificant part of the social fabric. The vast majority of people are heterosexual. That’s a fact and your impact on society will always be small. It will be even smaller due to the fact that procreation is problematic for the homosexual community and the future belongs to those who have children. Childless yuppies have the same problem. If it all ends here then who cares about the future. The children are why a great deal of society operates the way it does.

The only way you can change this is by government intervention in artificially expanding your role beyond what would take place otherwise. If that is your intent then conservatism has nothing to offer you.

They than turn and pass laws to criminalize my being and practices. They are open in this desire and I am open in my desire to thwart them.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:28 AM

In point of fact they simply want to raise their children and families without the intrusiveness of the state telling them what they should think about you, and 73 other groups who also have their axes to grind.

sharrukin on August 26, 2010 at 12:41 AM

@gobs the difference is that transsexuals actually have many of the job protections that gays lack through the Employees with Disabilities Act. Gay might have gained some social recognition but legally speaking we have few recourses to protect ourselves and our families.
I do respect the trails and tribulations that Trans go through. They’re forced openness causes the spotlight of public attn down on them and force them to battle in ways that gays like me who can pass for straight don’t have to.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:42 AM

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:33 AM

Zeke, you are just being lead by your identity politics. No one wants to criminalize your being. Perhaps you do not want to be called out on your lifestyle. Religious Conservatives have the right not to agree with your lifestyle whether you like it or not…it’s part of a free country. I am more concerned with how they treat you as a person. I wish their were more Conservative gays…and that also means I am NOT going to put up with a chaotic lifestyle…gay or straight.

Gays do not get stoned and/or walled in America.

Gob on August 26, 2010 at 12:45 AM

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:42 AM

Zeke, then you know the tough, tough road a Transie has to endure. I have had many friends who are and I am always shocked at the crap they have to endure each day. It is sinful and it’s hard (but not impossible) for them to have gainful employment because they are RUTHLESSLY mocked on a daily basis. They have so much strength to keep on keeping on. What really twists the knife is when I see minorities mocking them. And I see that often.

They need that extra protection because people make it so hard for them to have any semblance of employment. Transies are the true victims. You are over 20 years off with your depiction of gays in society.

Gob on August 26, 2010 at 12:51 AM

Let’s be straight about this (no pun intended):

It may or may not be true that no one chooses to be gay.

But everyone, everytime chooses whether or not to have sex (gay or straight), unless rape is involved.

I’m straight, and I haven’t had sex in 5 years, because I haven’t been married in 5 years, and my religion says that no marriage => no sex. I’m not genetically forced into sex with anyone. Nor is anyone else.

Personally, I have no problem with the government recognizing same-sex marriage. I’d actually rather the government stay out of the marriage business all together. But don’t let’s start with the nonsense about how someone can’t help having sex — gay or straight.

notropis on August 26, 2010 at 12:52 AM

@sharrukin in point of fact they want to do more than ignore me, they want to criminalize being gay. Since being open about my sexuality helps thwart this I choose to be so. Even if gays only constitute a small percentage of the population it is in the end a sizable population. I do not accept your rationalization that i should suffer because i am not as many as you. We have a constitution that protects minority rights from the majority exactly for this reason. If the education of the population is the cost of maintaining these rights than that’s what i have to support.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:53 AM

I hope not to be vulgar here, but to simply be blunt…what man would choose another man’s hairy ass over a woman by choice?

BobM88 on August 26, 2010 at 12:39 AM

Best argument that sexual orientation is not choice. But of course because it is ‘sin’ it must be choice, despite the disgusting and disturbing evidence to the contrary.

trailboss on August 26, 2010 at 12:55 AM

@Gob I’m not saying they don’t and over time I’ve come to appreciate the true crap that Trans have to go though. However that doesn’t mean I won’t advocate for my own rights.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:55 AM

Gob on August 26, 2010 at 12:51 AM

Gob, you continue to surprise me, in a positive way.

trailboss on August 26, 2010 at 1:00 AM

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 12:55 AM

I’m telling you Zeke, your rights are just about complete. What you should do is forget about yourself and put all that energy into helping all the transexuals you can because they are the true victims in 2010.

Gob on August 26, 2010 at 1:00 AM

trailboss on August 26, 2010 at 1:00 AM

TB, I am full of surprises! I am not your typical Conservative and I have so many twists and turns! :D

Gob on August 26, 2010 at 1:01 AM

@Gob and I’m telling you as a gay man living in this country they are not, and I can advocate for trans and myself at the same time. They aren’t mutually exclusive things.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 1:01 AM

I’m straight, and I haven’t had sex in 5 years

Damn, you must be horny!

Emperor Norton on August 26, 2010 at 1:02 AM

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