Former RNC chief Ken Mehlman: I’m gay

posted at 6:37 pm on August 25, 2010 by Allahpundit

He says he realized it “fairly recently,” in Marc Ambinder’s words, which has Tammy Bruce chuckling on Twitter. Honestly, I thought the guy came out years ago. Remember when Bill Maher talked about the rumors surrounding him on Larry King’s show — back in 2006? I guess you were the last to know, Ken.

He’s doing this now, it seems, because he wants to drum up publicity for the cause of gay marriage and figures that “Republican whom everyone thought was gay actually is gay” headlines will do the trick. Could be, although Ambinder’s careful to remind readers of the sort of social con initiatives that the GOP pushed during Mehlman’s RNC tenure. That won’t endear him to gay activists, and his newly public identity won’t endear him to social cons. Maybe he should have just worked for gay marriage like Ted Olson and kept his orientation private?

Privately, in off-the-record conversations with this reporter over the years, Mehlman voiced support for civil unions and told of how, in private discussions with senior Republican officials, he beat back efforts to attack same-sex marriage. He insisted, too, that President Bush “was no homophobe.” He often wondered why gay voters never formed common cause with Republican opponents of Islamic jihad, which he called “the greatest anti-gay force in the world right now.”

Mehlman’s leadership positions in the GOP came at a time when the party was stepping up its anti-gay activities — such as the distribution in West Virginia in 2006 of literature linking homosexuality to atheism, or the less-than-subtle, coded language in the party’s platform (“Attempts to redefine marriage in a single state or city could have serious consequences throughout the country…”). Mehlman said at the time that he could not, as an individual Republican, go against the party consensus. He was aware that Karl Rove, President Bush’s chief strategic adviser, had been working with Republicans to make sure that anti-gay initiatives and referenda would appear on November ballots in 2004 and 2006 to help Republicans.

Mehlman acknowledges that if he had publicly declared his sexuality sooner, he might have played a role in keeping the party from pushing an anti-gay agenda.

“It’s a legitimate question and one I understand,” Mehlman said. “I can’t change the fact that I wasn’t in this place personally when I was in politics, and I genuinely regret that. It was very hard, personally.” He asks of those who doubt his sincerity: “If they can’t offer support, at least offer understanding.”

I couldn’t care less either way, but with all the buzz lately about new conservative support for gays — here’s the latest surreal episode in the Coulter/Farah HomoCon saga, incidentally — this is a bracing reminder that an openly gay RNC chief probably would still be a problem. Or would it?


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 3 4 5

@SC.Charlie no…no it’s kinda slow process that goes 1. ooh that guy makes me hot, 2. wow I must be bi, 3.hmm these chicks actually want sex eww 4. fck if I’m not bi, I must…not have found the right chick. 5. hmm why does she want sex all the time? 6. fck it guys are so much hotter and easier to deal with 7. god dang i might be gay.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 4:47 PM

@SC.Charlie no…no it’s kinda slow process that goes 1. ooh that guy makes me hot, 2. wow I must be bi, 3.hmm these chicks actually want sex eww 4. if I’m not bi, I must…not have found the right chick. 5. hmm why does she want sex all the time? 6. ..it guys are so much hotter and easier to deal with 7. hmm i might be gay. 8.learning to shop properly.

feel free to stop at any section and develop a neurosis or bizarre fetish along the way.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 4:49 PM

I sometimes wonder why people chose to make their main self-identifier what makes them “different”, like being gay or African-American or Hispanic, and then whine because people treat them differently.

katiejane on August 26, 2010 at 4:36 PM

People do it with religious beliefs all the time, and often pay horrible costs if they adhere to a minority religion in a country that doesn’t protect those rights. Yet, apparently, it is worth the cost for many of them.

dedalus on August 26, 2010 at 4:53 PM

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 4:49 PM

Apparently, frequently there is also a body hair waxing phase. Or maybe that’s part of a “I’m metrosexual” phase.

dedalus on August 26, 2010 at 4:57 PM

@dedalus I’ve found it correlates to both the distance from the coast and percent of body fat.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 5:00 PM

There you go. The fox is in the henhouse and now both the Democrat and your beloved GOP are being used as tools to destroy the family. Marxists long ago targeted the Christian family, and they knew that particular groups, wrapped around a “rights” package, would be ideal in it’s aim. And so many of you are simply nodding your head like marionettes being manipulated by forces you do not even see or care to understand because you’ve bought into the Marxist line.

The goal is not the reaching of some manufactured “right” but the destruction of God and his natural law using subversive means. You either stand on His principles, or you do not.

It’s funny to read where some “conservatives” stand on this issue. Eventually this will take take the form of hate speech laws and everyone here will scream against them, yet you will have enabled them by your willingness to compromise the family.

Yes, I do believe this is an issue best left to the states, but the gay agenda is not about states rights, it is about federalization of the agenda, with the eventual introduction of hate speech laws targeting Christian speech that dare speak of God’s position on this matter.

The gay marriage movement is a movement against God. It’s really that simple.

True_King on August 26, 2010 at 9:42 AM

This is charitably and well written.

Many Christian conservatives have no idea that it is necessary to understand the danger that the militant homosexual legislative agenda poses to the family, children and the right to free speech (Canada now considers it a hate crime to speak against homosexual practice). It is marxist at it’s core and True_King has won half the battle simply by naming the enemy. The militant homosexual agenda is really rooted in atheistic marxism.

Christians and conservatives must not be fooled into thinking that if they roundly resist the homosexual agenda of using the force of federal legislation to institutionalize a behavior (while the homosexual activist’s claim at the same time that what they do is nobody’s business) that they are hating individuals who may be homosexual.

I will not allow anyone to put me into that box in order to silence me or stop me from supporting conservative and Christian foundational truths: the sanctity of life from conception until natural death, traditional marriage and family and respect for fellow humans who are also made in the image of God. I may not meet that ideal every time; I have a long way to go, but I’ll continue to try and I won’t be accused of being a hater because I stand up for what has been taught for millenia. And I will stand with anyone, homosexual or straight, who feels and tries to live this way also.

tigerlily on August 26, 2010 at 5:43 PM

@tigerlily maybe straight christians should stop having so many gay children like me if they don’t want us to exist.

honestly the gay agenda thing is as tired as “traditional marriage” if your with isn’t your property it isn’t “traditional”, and what exactly is an unnatural death?

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 6:03 PM

@tigerlily maybe straight christians should stop having so many gay children like me if they don’t want us to exist.

honestly the gay agenda thing is as tired as “traditional marriage” if your with isn’t your property it isn’t “traditional”, and what exactly is an unnatural death?

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 6:03 PM

Zekecorlain, I have been following your comments on this thread, and I think many things have happened in your lifetime, as happen in all of our lives, to inform, or misinform your outlook. I’m going to write a bit below in response, please excuse my abrupt jumps from one thought to the next, I’m trying to do three things at once here.

I don’t know why you think parents of homosexual children want them “to not exist”. This is a really harsh and disturbing generalization, even though I am sure that this is probably one of the most painful issues parents/children can face and many parents probably make huge mistakes in trying to deal with it. I think it was you who said your father was really unaccepting? Sorry if I’m mistaken, but if it did happen that way, I understand your pain, which is really something you are carrying at the core level of your being. Core level pain can really twist a person big time, the only remedy (and you may not want to hear this, to you it sounds just like blah, blah, blah,) is God, who accepts you just as you are and loves you infinitely, as his child, and wants your happiness more than you could ever ask or imagine.

I don’t understand the first part of your next paragraph, but the answer to the question re: natural death is simple. No euthanasia.

You have chosen to live your life engaging yourself in homosexual activity. That’s a personal choice, and my problem is that this personal choice, (which has been taught for millenia as a sin, but that’s for another discussion) is being forced, through the power of legislative, judicial and executive branches of the U.S. government to be accepted in all aspects of every citizen’s life.

The most disturbing part of all is that the result of this Federal force of law will force the teaching of all sorts of “activities” to innocent children. “Sexual actitivies” such as men’s genitals in other mens anuses and mouths, fists up other men’s anuses, not to mention many other unmentionables, as well as lesbian practices should never be exposed, let alone taught to children.

This is an abominable theft and a crime against irreplacable childhood innocence. It inflicts untold confusion, fear and pain at THEIR core level. It’s being taught in some areas now, and it is a crime against children’s very being.

You claim you are fighting for your rights. Last time I checked, you have the same constitutional rights as anyone else. And so do children and their parents. Children should be revered, but in our society, it is only political lip service, that ghastly line, “it’s for the children”, really means that the children can be aborted, sexually abused, abandoned, beaten and have their innocence stolen by “educational” experts pushing “tolerance” and “equality”. I don’t know if you have any concerns or wish to protect little ones, but I and millions of conservatives do, and the fight for THEM is what animates us, more than anything else.

I am not here to fight with you personally or judge your soul. But I won’t stand by and let a group of people who are promoting the public and government enforced acceptance of a private sin romp all over me, and fool many people by claiming they do it in the name of tolerance and conservatism.

To be honest, a life apart from God, chained to sin, whether homo or hetero, is a life of pain, misery and slavery to that sin, whose chains are forged slowly but with incredible strength to bind, and when the person realizes they have been imprisoned, sometimes the “easier” route is to surrender and push harder for the thing that enslaves them. I guarantee you, the direction that you have chosen can be changed, and the chance to regain your joy, innocence, purity and peace is worth the fight. And you are a fighter, I can see by your posts. You just need to understand who and what your real enemy is.

tigerlily on August 26, 2010 at 6:57 PM

I sometimes wonder why people chose to make their main self-identifier what makes them “different”, like being gay or African-American or Hispanic, and then whine because people treat them differently. – katiejane on August 26, 2010 at 4:36 PM

Ask Lindsay Graham why so many people think he is gay. Just Google Lindsay Graham gay.

SC.Charlie on August 26, 2010 at 6:58 PM

The GOP does this and does this again and again they snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

In other words, the GOP as to “management” continues to think that if they just become Democrats, then, hey, they win. Err, sumthin’ like that.

Lourdes

I think what some of you envision as what would be a real Republican, is actually not a traditional Republican in terms of individual liberty and freedom, but an old style evangelical Southern Democrat.

Thats fine and all, I just don’t like seeing a Republican being redefined through revisionist history to now be something akin to what would have been a Democrat.

Republican Stalwarts like Goldwater (oops, where were the social conservatives there??, he did not care who was gay), Gerald Ford (oops, Social Conservatives again supported Democrats) but he wanted Gays to be a welcome part of the GOP. Ronald Reagan even fought against and helped defeat a Cali prop that would fire gays from the school systems, he certainly had gay friends from his Hollywood days.

I am not gay, but I certainly would have no issue working with one to get small government fiscal conservatives elected.

I think the biggest purveyor of this gay boogeyman myth is not the traditional limited government Republican who often does not care, its the social conservatives wanted the GOP to be what the Democratic party was once like, that lose sleep over it and have their divisive dogma trying to disingenously decide who real Republicans are.

firepilot on August 26, 2010 at 7:01 PM

ts the social conservatives wanted the GOP to be what the Democratic party was once like, that lose sleep over it and have their divisive dogma trying to disingenously decide who real Republicans are.

firepilot on August 26, 2010 at 7:01 PM

What are you talking about? Put the BONG down and walk away.

CWforFreedom on August 26, 2010 at 7:23 PM

I am not gay, but I certainly would have no issue working with one to get small government fiscal conservatives elected.

firepilot on August 26, 2010 at 7:01 PM

If anyone is trying to “disingenously divide”, it’s you, with the above straw man.

The truth is, a vast majority of conservatives will work with each other for traditional and children’s defense causes, regardless of whether those individuals working together are homo or hetero.

But, those homo groups such as GOProud, who claim to be conservative, hanging window dressing of smaller govt. and fiscal responsiblity, while pushing their monster agenda of FEDERAL legislation and policy promoting homo marriage, DADT, anti-Prop 8 and anit-DOMA are not the same as the above. (And they are open about it now, because they have buffaloed a lot of conservatives so far, but they may start practicing their own form of taqiyya in the near future.)

The real question for you is, will you work with these groups to promote DADT, homosexual “marriage”, anti-DOMA and anti-Prop 8 just because they also offer some conservative scraps on the side?

Moreover, do you think a group labels itself as conservative, like GOProud, yet simultaneously promotes radical homosexual causes is a contradiction in it’s very being?

Don’t you think the two very foundational ideas and philosophies are in direct opposition, and one must be chosen over the other?

Which one do you choose?

tigerlily on August 26, 2010 at 7:41 PM

tigerlily on August 26, 2010 at 6:57 PM

I certainly hope that was read in the spirit in which it was given. You speak eloquently about this issue.

DrMagnolias on August 26, 2010 at 8:12 PM

DrMagnolias on August 26, 2010 at 8:12 PM

Thank you, DrMagnolias. I don’t deserve the compliment, but I’ll take it. ;)

My hope is to discuss this matter without hurting anyone’s feelings, but being able to lay out all the facts as I see them. I hope others can do so as well.

tigerlily on August 26, 2010 at 8:31 PM

@tigerlilly thanks for your responses I’ll try to be consise in my reply:
First of all the fact that my parents are fundamental christians means that they try to follow the bible as they think it was written and it’s intent. They reject that I could be gay naturally and believe that their god would not create gay people who would be in contradiction to his old testament law and his new testament writings. Because of that they see me trying to live a normal life and date men who are gay as an abdication of my religious duty. Personally I don’t think their god exists and if it did exist it could not be the god of mercy and love that they presume it to be. If I were to submit to their religion I would be tacitly approving of a god that ordered people like me stoned to death and whose plan of only saving a limited number of it’s creations from the punishment it has ordained can best be described as cruel and capricious. Seeing as it is irrational to worship god that calls my being an abomination I reject their faith and their god and move to live in a world where morals are rational and fact based rather than ordained by translated holy word. Far from being enslaving I was able to over come the “core pain of my parents rejection and see their faith as a product of their culture rather than a personal attack on their child (me). This country was based on people seeking to establish a rational government in place of the hereditary and class based system of the world around them. Lately my parents have become more radicalized by people like Ken Mehlman who sought to agitate them in order to get them to vote for a basket of issues that they grouped together. Now they claim anyone who is not waving a flag and a bible is a heretic bent on destroying a country. A country that has been bankrupted by the very politicians they support.
Gays are a victimized class in this country and around the world they are frequently the subject of witch hunts and mob violence. Gay youth are tossed out of their homes and constitute one of the largest classes of homeless youth in this country alone. Because of their status they commit suicide more often and are drawn to drugs and alcohol as a path to escapism. For christians and others to than point as say “look how unhappy and tortured they are it this is the fruit of being gay” is the height of ignorance and hypocrisy.
Next to address your concern for the children, faced with the information that gay youth and adults will often be the subject of bullying, assault, sexual abuse, and mental abuse. It is logical for state and federal agencies to seek to educate their population of both the problem and the of the fact that gays are not a threat. For christians to demand the right to not educate their children one would ask what that would that gain the rest of the country. Would uneducated children bully gays less or help gay children find help? Would they contribute to the national discussion or treat their fellow gay citizens with respect? Remember that all children have the same statistical probability of being gay. Christian or non-christian is it better for christian children to suffer unnecessarily for their parents peace of mind? You talk a lot about gay sex, but all these sexual practices are mirrored or copied from straights. Did gays invent donkey shows? Did gays invent prostitution or even bath houses? The answer is no, gays were marginalized and victimized and only recently have laws been over turned that were routinely used to punish gays alone. The courts seeing the disparity acted to over turn many of these laws for that reason.
Currently many parents choose to teach their children at home, and that is fine, however I hope that you are not like my brother and teaching your children based off internet christian propaganda sites rather than actual educational sites that teach facts not beliefs. Parents have long said that they reserved the right to teach their kids sex education but routinely ignored such basic life lessons until their children were pregnant underage, ignorant of the simple steps they could have taken to prevent these unwanted births. Births that are not only a hardship to the family and child, but to the offspring as well. The state decided that it was more cost effective to teach children in public schools than deal with the social cost of cleaning up after negligent parents. One of these lessons is that gays exist and have existed for all of recorded history. To deny that simply fact is to ignore even the bible. is it better to coddle children to maintain an innocence that is at best described as an illusion, or to go ahead and teach them how to approach the world in a rational studied manner?
Your advocating for ignorance is not pretty and I think it shows a general fear of the unknown. Be of good cheer, man has spanned his world, bred in untold numbers, and with education and perspicacity they can continue until they take to the skies.
My only enemy is ignorance, and i intend to combat it, if it takes being open about my sexuality and teaching people that gays do not constitute a threat than that is what I will do.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 8:32 PM

@firepilot I agree, it’s interesting from a historic perspective how the parties have changed sides but that the sides actually remain about the same.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 8:34 PM

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 8:32 PM

Thanks for your reply. I have to say that imo, some of your premises upon which you base your argument are faulty, and some are not, but your solutions are.

For example, I think that the Person you think God is, and who He has truly revealed Himself to be, are kind of mixed up.

You say that God ordered homosexuals to be stoned. Nowhere, in the Ten Commandments, nor anywhere else in the Scripture, does God tell His people to stone homosexuals. Stoning was a practice, (like divorce, which Jesus told the disciples that God did not want), that the fallen race of humans thought up all by themselves.

In fact, when the woman caught in adultery was just seconds away from a stoning, Jesus saved her life, telling her that He did not condemn her, but that she was free to go, and should sin no more.

Also, nowhere in the Scripture does God call a homosexual, or any person, an abomination. God does not consider your being an abomination, since He made you, gave his life for you in the most sacrificial way He could, and wants nothing more than for you to be happy with Him eternally.

If you believe the above about God, you are not talking about God, but about the devil. All I can say is that these two examples tell me that you have some very mixed up concepts.

However, your homosexual ACTS, which are not YOU, are considered abominable in Scripture. Don’t take it personally, though, unless the ACTS are something that you have taken into your being and cannot separate yourself from or stop yourself from, well, acting out.

But then, no one stops themselves from sinning. For that, we rely upon the grace and power of an infinitely forgiving God, who will pick us up and dust us off to try again, no matter how many times we fall.

And it’s not just people who are attracted to their same sex that have to walk the straight and narrow (which really is a path to life, peace and happiness. Although tough, nothing worth doing is ever easy.) No one gets a “free ride”. People who commit adultery, fornication, etc., people homo or hetero, who separate themselves from the love of God, are just that: persons who have separated themselves from the love of God. But He doesn’t call them an abomination, ever. The good news is that no matter how far we take ourselves from God, He never leaves us and we can turn to Him, tell him we’re sorry, and He forgets every wrong of the past, and asks us to do the same. He is a God of the present moment.

I see that your parents have beliefs that sound a little unreasonable, and they may or may not bear on your misinformation regarding how you view God’s vision of you.
That one is not for me to say. The main thing is that you try to forgive and love them and ask them to do the same for you, because before you know it, they are gone.

And I will tell you that I agree with you completely that no one should ever be bullied, threatened, beaten or worst of all, thrown out of their home by their parents. This is the greatest tragedy for all concerned. And it may well contribute to increased drug abuse for these poor unfortunates who have been treated in this way.

But, your solution to the above injustices inflicted upon some homosexuals is to teach the children about homosexual practices? You say that childhood innocence is nothing but an illusion anyway, and the sooner they know about what homosexuals do the better? That this knowledge will somehow stop mistreatment, which does not spring from a lack of knowledge about homosexual acts, but from a lack of knowledge of God and charity toward others. And you say that homosexual practices are mirrored in heterosexual ways?

Well, I think the answer to bullying is to teach the children that EVERYONE must be treated with dignity and respect. Teach them about love of neighbor; teach them that to offend or verbally or physically threaten or abuse ANY FELLOW human being for any reason is a serious sin against God, against that person and against themselves and that they will be accountable for it to God, their teachers and peers. Teach the children the love of God, the Ten Commandments and the joy and the courage of helping someone who is seen as less than perfect, or different.

Why would you say that childhood innocence, one of the most beautiful and fleeting, yet most memorable of human REALITIES is an “illusion”?

For the few short years that it exists, the innocence of children should be sheilded from ALL sinful and harmful life realities.

It is soon enough that they will have to deal with these things. And to force anything like you mention upon them, in the misguided attempt to quell bullying and mistreatment, is, imo, akin to spirtually murdering them.

Also, I don’t see any correlation in healthy heterosexual relations, (and I am speaking of within marriage, which is is the only place they should be acted upon), to homosexuality: What married couples who are not offending each other and God are “fisting” each other, or wanting to have multiple sexual partners in their same bed, or on a sequential basis, to the tune of 100-300 per year, as is average for the homosexual person who is a regular part of the “social scene”. What husband is going into back rooms of bars and sticking his penis into a hole so that a stranger on the other side can do things to it?

The rampant use of pornography is also not part of a healthy heterosexual marriage, and I don’t think you will find many spouses who will try to convince you that they are. Nor will you find many spouses who say that prostitution is an aberration welcome in their marriage.

There are many other practices I could mention, and many I am sure I don’t even know about, that don’t remotely mirror heterosexual practices. And talk about innocence. I can still remember where I was and what I was doing when I first read about “fisting”. I couldn’t believe it, nor understand it and I was a little shaken up, to be honest. And I was not an innocent; in my mid 20′s at the time. I can’t imagine stealing a child’s mind and spirit with this kind of “information”.

I think that to say not teaching your child about homosexual acts is keeping them ignorant is really unfair and wrong of you. Children should be educated primarily by their parents, and if the parents allow the public school system to teach by proxy, perverted “teachers” have no right to usurp parental authority, forcing sexual acts and information into young minds, warping them for life. It’s really a form of pedophilia.

So as you can see, I don’t advocate ignorance, I advocate protecting children. They should be well educated in charity, love of neighbor and God, reading, writing, math, science, history, geography, music, art, sports, etc. They should not be exposed to the horror that you are suggesting.

I ask you to examine your conscience and ask yourself if you haven’t built a house of cards out of half-truths, using the cover of defending homosexuals whose rights have been abused.

Yes, homosexual and heterosexual person’s rights are abused by others all day, every day. But there are laws that cover much of that, and these laws are based on the constitutional rights that are exercised by both homosexual and heterosexual citizens.

I don’t think you can point to any laws deny constitutional rights to homosexuals in the U.S.A.

As far as individuals doing the persecuting, the answer for that I gave above. Teach your children well. Not that they can sin and it’s “normal”, nor that anyone else can sin and it’s “normal”.

tigerlily on August 26, 2010 at 10:00 PM

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 8:34 PM

Not ignoring you. Just finished a long post that went into the ether. Hope it makes it back out.

tigerlily on August 26, 2010 at 10:01 PM

hit back on your browser and take out the bad words :-P

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 10:15 PM

Well, Zekecorlain, I don’t see it yet; perhaps it won’t come out of the ether. I’ll give it more time, but if I have to rewrite, I will . you’ll see another post from me if my orginal doesn’t show up, either tonight or tomorrow.

tigerlily on August 26, 2010 at 10:24 PM

@tigerlilly looking forward to it see you than, like i said if you hit back you should reload your txt and be able to edit it.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 10:26 PM

hit back on your browser and take out the bad words :-P

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 10:15 PM

I’ve been hitting the refresh, is that the same as hitting the browser? And in this post, alas, no bad words.

tigerlily on August 26, 2010 at 10:27 PM

no back is different than refresh, it’s the backward point arrow but you might be to far along in the queue now

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 10:42 PM

Yes, I thought you might have meant the back arrow. I tried it but, no luck. So, looks like I’ll be rewritin’

tigerlily on August 26, 2010 at 10:54 PM

Hey, Zekecorlain! It showed up! Scroll up to 10:00 P.M. and you will see it. Sayanora til you read it.

tigerlily on August 26, 2010 at 11:02 PM

@SC.Charlie no…no it’s kinda slow process that goes 1. ooh that guy makes me hot, 2. wow I must be bi, 3.hmm these chicks actually want sex eww 4. if I’m not bi, I must…not have found the right chick. 5. hmm why does she want sex all the time? 6. ..it guys are so much hotter and easier to deal with 7. hmm i might be gay. 8.learning to shop properly.

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 4:49 PM

That’s hilarious. My wife is Egyptian Christian (Coptic) and we were married in a small, traditional Coptic ceremony. We only invited about 20 people and I invited a close friend that was gay and told him he should bring his partner because everyone else there would be with their significant other. He didn’t want to because he thought it would detract from the event but said “Don’t worry, if I bring Jonah no one will think we are gay, they will just think “Hey, those two guys are really well dressed” “.

I told my wife he was coming and might bring his partner. Then when I thought about it I asked if any of her (very traditional) Egyptian family would have an issue with it. She said “No, no one in Egpyt is opening gay, my family will just think they are well dressed”.

The two conversations were like a half hour apart, it was really funny.

Kaisersoze on August 26, 2010 at 11:21 PM

@Tigerlilly an interesting premise based solely on a religious doctrine I don’t believe in. but lets work through this. Historically there is no such thing as childhood innocence. What you count as innocence is simply ignorance. Do you really mean to imply that throughout human history children had no concept of sex? The fact that families lived in one room buildings slept on the same bed and still had a dozen or so of offspring would point to the fact that adult sex was a fact of life. That we can afford separate rooms is simply a matter of circumstance. Children of the past were confronted with sex and nakedness on a daily basis. So trying to create a bubble of ignorance in which a child can live in a world without knowledge of sex is a modern construct. Deciding that they should be ignorant of the existance of gays because some gays have odd sex is an excuse nothing else. in the last three years I have had three sex partners during two of those years I was monogamous with my bf till we broke up. I know of no gays that have a different sex partner every three days. the logistics alone would be staggering. so that ‘statistic’ is bs. I suppose you are ignoring the passages in leviticus that call gay sex an abomination and the commandments that tell followers to stone them. In this place you are trying to separate gays from sexual acts but at the same time you define gays by their sexual practices. So this is discordant in your message.
No where did I mention pornography a fact of life that is dominated by heterosexuals simply by numbers alone. You indicate that porn is offensive and I can understand that, however ignoring gays because gay porn exists indicates that you should ignore straights because straight porn exists. Once more this goes back to ignorance rather than innocence.
Could you construct this same argument using secular points? you are indicating that morality should be dictated by certain christian and jewish beliefs. however you ignore that you should not seek to impose religious beliefs because they are open to interpretation, after all there are over 1600 christian churches each with a different doctrine. What if a christian said that sex should be thought so that wives and husbands could practice sex as they wished rather than as the amish might desire. Even saying that porn is not part of a healthy marriage ignores many straights that love porn and have healthy marriages like my best friend. He looks at porn all the time, has three kids and loves his wife. Is his marriage false? Is it not healthy? that’s a broad judgement to make based solely on your ‘gut’.
Now lets look at education, you say that pervy teachers will force sex information on children but having had public school education I did not experience that, did you? In my class there were girls that believed combing your hair during your period was obscene. They learned this from their parents. Can you tell me how this is in any way true? Basing public school education on just the facts is a healthy compromise. teaching about masturbation, unsafe sex, the reproductive cycle and the simple facts of sex don’t seem that odd. in fact it seems like a progression of biology not some bizarre alien construct. Can you say that kids would not benefit from simple sex education considering that each of them will practice in their lives? Saying that sex education is a form of pedophilia is really stretching.
Are you protecting children or just keeping them ignorant, it is my belief that it is ignorance and that it serves no purpose. I am not saying that children should have sex but they will start having sex between the ages of 13 and 19 this is fact, not construct. In the majority of the world and throughout human history children are put to work as soon as they can handle tools. Child soldiers are common in africa and child labor is the norm in asia. Is that optimum for brain development, I say no. but it is a fact of our species and our history. You arguing against simply points to an ignorance of reality.
Your compromise on bullying I think is notable, if that were the standard I would support it. However as the son of a teacher (and former bf of one) I have to ask is ignoring the statistical numbers of who is actually bullied wise? Your compromise might work and I applaud that but don’t forget teaching methods and real world application. Ignoring that gays and trans are often abused might be a flaw in your thinking but if it was rolled out as you envisioned it would be stunning.
I am not going to join your religion, I am not going to judge gays by saying same sex relations are a form of sin. In fact I think you forget that if you base your teaching on the belief that people are sinning by kissing or having sex with those they love than your construct will implode. Many christians don’t understand this. in fact they think that saying love the sinner hate the sin makes everything ok. But it doesn’t it connotes moral judgement on a secular issue. Not all americans are christian, how do you advocate that they live by your religious doctrine?
I understand your perspective but I cannot say it should be the national standard. Lets live with science as the foundation and you can construct a religion on the remnants instead of the other way around.

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 12:22 AM

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 12:22 AM

Wow, Zeke. We’re running up the pixils tonight. I’ll try to keep up and at the same time encapsulate my thoughts.

It seems that you are saying that science and religion are opposed to each other and at odds. In fact, the Lord who created the universe also created the study of it by means of what we humans call science. Religion and science, when honestly studied and truthfully perceived, compliment and fulfill each other. Case in point: To study embryonic stem cells, scientists must kill a human being in the earliest stages of life. To date, not one beneficial scientific advance has come from this cannabalistic, anti-God practice. In fact, the embryonic stem cells have been found to even be harmful, going “rogue” and creating some pretty bizarre and horrible health problems for some persons who have allowed them to be inserted into their bodies.

However, scientists who honor the sanctity of life, as all Judeo-Christian religion teaches, also happen to reap the scientific benefit of huge gains in treating previously untreatable conditions by using stem cells collected from umbilical cord blood, and even from scrapings from the inside of one’s mouth. These cells are much more stable than the cells harvested from the killing of young humans, and thank God that some scientists had a conscience and would not use other humans, resulting in their investigating means that respected life and are now making incredible advances for the help of humanity.

There are many scientists who saw the hand of God in creation, Einstein being one of them. I know you want to have a discussion that you call “secular”. If you mean one based on scientific fact, that can be done, but all the mysteries of the universe have been understood by science in only the smallest degree. That being said, science, properly conducted, always points to a Creator and to the benefit of following the Creator’s laws for human conduct.

If the Creator’s laws for human sexuality are followed, the “secular” or “scientific” condition we know of as STD’s would not exist. Much tragic suffering could be avoided, much peace and happiness could be acheived.

As to children, science, to the extent that it can understand the human mind, and our own childhood experience, tell us that children do not have any independent or self-informing idea of sex during the stage of childhood before adolescence. Science has seen that the childhood brain is not hardwired this way. And again, I am speaking here of legitimate science, not the perversion and criminal acts that were passed off as scientific research by the pedophile/lecher/pervert named Kinsey.

Anyway, this precious and innocent time of childhood is called the “latent” stage and to violate this fleeting time of purity and trust with information on homosexual acts is a crime against their spirits and their lives. And they need not know anything of heterosexual reproduction during these tender childhood, pre-adolescent years, either.

As far as when the teen years begin, then their parents should inform them as to human reproduction and pass onto them their values in living out this facet of their beings.
You state that teens from from 13-19 will have sex. That statistic has increased, I will grant you, but it is by no means as certain for all as you seem to be saying. Many parents are still raising their children with their own Christian morality, not what Planned Parenthood and MTV are telling the world is “normal”. And the number of kids sexually active, and contracting STD’s has increased right along with the wild and sexually explicit and amoral/immoral sex “education” that is being poured into their minds by elder authority figures purporting to “teach” them.

Here’s another fun “scientific/secular” fact for you. In the 1950′s and for millenia prior, there were only about six std’s. At the present, there are more than fifty, all newly developed, many of them incurable, since the “sexual revolution” freed us all to do our own thing.

And parents who allow spiritual, if not physical pedophiles to cram this stuff down their children’s throats, while paying their public school salaries are very much to blame for not protecting them from those who would harm them.

By the way, just because in other cultures children are exposed to sex, i.e., living in one room, doesn’t mean that is good for them. And just because other cultures still abuse children through child labor doesn’t mean children should be put to work.

Also, I don’t understand what you were saying on my compromise on bullying. I’m not compromising. Nobody should be bullied, and if a child is bullied because he is different (that includes acting effiminate) that is not acceptable. Children should not be taught about perverse sexual practices to stop bullying. They need to be taught love of God and love of neighbor and the courage to lift another up, not put another down, no matter how “different”.

And I don’t know where you learned about Christianity, Zekecorian, because some of the things you have mentioned I have never heard of. Girls who can’t comb their hair during their period is a first for me. Also, I don’t think you are listening when I say that homosexual acts and you as a person are separate. Your acts and YOU are separate, and you don’t have to constantly scratch that maddening itch, if you choose to live free.

But for that to happen, you will have to admit that maybe you have been laboring under some misconceptions; maybe you should strive to learn where you are not on the bullseye regarding who you think God is what He thinks of His creation and of you. And maybe you should ask yourself if there is another way to live than the way you live now, that will give you the peace in your soul and assurance that we are never alone, especially in the dead of night when we awaken and it’s just us and the darkness.

There is Someone who loves you with an everlasting love. And to exchange a homosexual lifestyle, or an adulterous one, or a single promiscuous hetero one, or a theiving one, or one of any multitude of major sins, for the knowledge and secure rest, Heart to heart, with the One who made you, now and after death, is worth all of the struggle to get free, and will bring you the joy of a true union of mind and soul, and liberate you to be the person you were born to be, to do the good works you were born to do, in purity, truth and peace, despite the struggles and tears of life.

C’mon Zekecorlain. Open your mind to the possibility. Just a little bit. I don’t know if you have ever heard of a group called Courage. It is small in number, and I hope is still around. It is comprised of Roman Catholic homosexuals who are a striving to live a chaste life, supporting each other and meeting regularly. I think there are other support groups out there that do the same thing. Just wondering if you have ever heard of Courage.

P.S. The friend that you have that you say looks at porn every day…ask his wife (don’t really) how she feels about it. I GUARANTEE you that she is VERY unhappy about it. It destroys and corrodes a woman’s trust, self esteem and love for her husband. It is POISON to any marriage. How could you think otherwise?

tigerlily on August 27, 2010 at 2:05 AM

Zekecorian – waiting for my post to come in, it went in the ether again, so please backtrack if you don’t see it sequentially.

Also a P.S.: The statistic about pornography being a staple of and homosexuals engaging in promiscuous sex, averaging 100-300 sexual encounters per year has been documented in many scientific and secular studies.

tigerlily on August 27, 2010 at 2:09 AM

PPS: Sorry for leaving things out and then popping them into another post, Zekecorian. But I noticed that you are quoting Leviticus saying homosexual sex is an abomination, and then saying that I deny that. I recall in our previous posts, we covered that when you said that God called homosexual persons abominations, and I said no, God never called anyone an abomination. I did say that the ACT was declared such in scripture. So, why are you saying that I would deny something that I brought up to clear up your misquote? I don’t understand. Also, you are saying that there is a “commandment” in scripture to stone homosexuals. There is no “commandment”, as in an order from God to stone anyone, including homosexuals, as I also said in the previous post. The stoning of adulterous women, and homosexuals (could you quote me the chapter/verse where this is written?) was completely the invention of sinful man himself, and not approved or commanded by God. I hope this clears this up for you.

tigerlily on August 27, 2010 at 2:18 AM

PPPS: Now I’m really adding up the posts. I just am wondering where my main post went, so while I’m waiting, I guess I’m thinking. Anyway, to address your point of Americans not living by anything but a secular, non-religious form of life – I don’t think that’s true. Our laws and jurisprudence are based on Judeo-Christian ethics and values, i.e., the Ten Commandments. That our government is not a theocracy is true. However, our laws reflect morality and a condemnation of sin in so many ways. Laws against murder, stealing, fraud, assault, battery, and on and on are all based on preventing and punishing acts which are at their core sinful, and a violation of the Ten Commandments. So, there we are. Hope I didn’t give you a headache.

tigerlily on August 27, 2010 at 2:25 AM

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 3:55 PM

Of course it takes time — you don’t learn habits in a day. Once you learn to be sexually excited by something, it will keep exciting you for the rest of your life (though you might be able to cover it up by developing a phobia or angry responce– not recommended). The process you describe a the bottom of page 4 is exactly that learning process. You stopped developing your attraction to women because they were “harder to deal with”. You gave up, took the path of least resistance. Oh well, that was your choice. You could still learn heterosexual attraction, if you weren’t so dogmatic that it is impossible, just as I could learn homosexual attraction if I set my mind to it. But you attempt to force your limits on other people when you promote the idea that you had no choice, that your fate was fixed from birth.
Look, I’m one of the few people that has no horse in this race. I’m not trying to excuse my own behavior (the shameful parts of which are not helped by this) or fight off challenges to any faith (as I have none). I am only calling it as I see it, and what I see is a lot of people limiting themselves unnecessarily or even harmfully. Your notion of “young gays” is particularly disturbing, as it implies that you wish to speed them along the path to homosexual behavior.

Also one thing you mentioned — the “loveless marriage”: the idea that a marriage is purely an expression of love/infatuation/sexual desire is at the heart of this problem. Marriage is basically a contract to raise a family between two people who like each other well enough to live together and learn love and sex. However, that concept has been eroded over the years by the idea of “romance”, and entertainment culture has really attempted to replace the idea of that contract with a simple official recognition of a sexual relationship.

I was raised on the notions that sexuality was fixed at birth, that marriage was just about love, and that homosexual relationships were completely analogous to heterosexual ones. It took me over a decade of working out the logic of those assumptions to realize that they lead to contradiction — and thus must be discarded as false.

Count to 10 on August 27, 2010 at 9:31 AM

Zekecorlain on August 26, 2010 at 8:32 PM

It looks as if you felt pushed into strict homosexuality as a response to your parents objection to any homosexual behavior at all.
I also call BS on your “all children are statistically equally likely to be gay”. Almost all self identified homosexuals I know were either, as children, seduced sexually by an member of the same sex or felt psychologically or socially abused by a member of the opposite sex. There was the gay pedophile priest scandal where the complainants were gay men. There are also statistics out there showing a high correlation between same-sex sexual abuse in childhood and homosexual self identity in adulthood.

Count to 10 on August 27, 2010 at 9:53 AM

Nobody should be bullied, and if a child is bullied because he is different (that includes acting effiminate) that is not acceptable. Children should not be taught about perverse sexual practices to stop bullying. They need to be taught love of God and love of neighbor and the courage to lift another up, not put another down, no matter how “different”.

Or, maybe they should be taught self defense.

Count to 10 on August 27, 2010 at 9:55 AM

I also call BS on your “all children are statistically equally likely to be gay”. Almost all self identified homosexuals I know were either, as children, seduced sexually by an member of the same sex or felt psychologically or socially abused by a member of the opposite sex. There was the gay pedophile priest scandal where the complainants were gay men. There are also statistics out there showing a high correlation between same-sex sexual abuse in childhood and homosexual self identity in adulthood. – Count to 10 on August 27, 2010 at 9:53 AM

Which is total BS. I suppose that all children should be heterosexually abused in order to make them become heterosexual?

SC.Charlie on August 27, 2010 at 10:11 AM

@tigerlilly,
Your attributing everything to a holy power that no one can see and who is interpreted differently by all religions is as silly as a boxer thanking god and jesus for giving him/her the strength to really bash the crap out of their opponent. If your god is peace and love why would they assume that they are getting special strength to be violent? It’s because everyone sees their god as an extension of their own desires. Do you think something is wrong? I’m sure your god will smite it. Think a people are evil, look a tornado wiped them out. It’s a simple human reaction to attribute supernatural causes to natural phenomena, a practice that fell out of favor during the age of the Enlightenment. Do you know why it fell out of favor? Because roving bands of christians throwing you on a burning pyre was annoying and people had, had enough of it.
You do not need a belief in god to study science, you do not need to be an atheist to to be a murderer. I’m not even an atheist, I’m a humanist, I think that teaching people they should try to worship alien beings whether or not they might be creators is wrong. Deeply and tragically wrong. Would you teach your children to worship you because you birthed them? Would you beat your animals for not making alters to you? Humans are perfectly capable of standing on their own two feet and using their perfectly capable minds to reason out the answers to their own questions. Waiting for a giant invisible sky wizard zombie seems a trifle over the top. To you your religion and your faith in an invisible god seems completely normal. To Me it seems a trifle sad and frankly pathetic. How many times do I have to watch someone sink into despair and self abuse when god doesn’t make them straight? To people who are normal having a magical diety is all fun but to people who are different be it from mental disorders or biological issues like being gay it’s not nearly the fun ride. Years of wondering what i was doing wrong eventually turned on the notion that i wasn’t doing anything wrong, the religious construct my parents had taught me was wrong and there was clear scientific and social evidence to prove it.
Your need for the validation of famous people to confirm your religious beliefs is of no consequence, If Brad Pitt stood up and said he believed in god it is of no less or more importance to me. I try not to follow fads simply because other people are doing it. However the fact that you do is part of human nature. We are social creatures and we like group confirmation.
Your belief that the world would be a better place if everyone lived by the most noble ideals is of course nice. Yes of course if everyone lived by the highest standards than things would be nice but we live in a world of complex variables and each person is an individual. It’s like physics professors talking to you about the perfect equation in which there is no friction or gravity to mess up the pretty numbers. Did you know that 2/3rds of married couples are not monogamous by their own confession. Also unprotected sex does not “create disease” it simply spreads it, and there were more than 6 std’s before 1950 they just weren’t known about. Just like AIDS existed before 1982, people just didn’t know that’s what they were dying of.

Anyway, this precious and innocent time of childhood is called the “latent” stage and to violate this fleeting time of purity and trust with information on homosexual acts is a crime against their spirits and their lives. And they need not know anything of heterosexual reproduction during these tender childhood, pre-adolescent years, either.

Once again this is simply ignorance not innocence. learning about sex or gays does not turn children into broken perverts
In fact hiding the truth about things until after the children experience them are one of the leading causes of bizarre sex fetishes…

Many parents are still raising their children with their own Christian morality, not what Planned Parenthood and MTV are telling the world is “normal”. And the number of kids sexually active, and contracting STD’s has increased right along with the wild and sexually explicit and amoral/immoral sex “education” that is being poured into their minds by elder authority figures purporting to “teach” them.

Your point? did Bristol Palin not have sex because her parents taught her it was wrong? Did she use protection? Did she not have a baby out of wedlock?
This was the norm in the old days, if people would take the time to ask their elders about how common it was to get married after the fact you would find out it’s been the norm to have sex and than get married.

And parents who allow spiritual, if not physical pedophiles to cram this stuff down their children’s throats, while paying their public school salaries are very much to blame for not protecting them from those who would harm them.

hmm and the parents that sent their children to catholic schools only to have them raped by pedophiles that their own church supplied that was a better way? at least in public schools child abusers are sent to jail not a different parish.

And maybe you should ask yourself if there is another way to live than the way you live now, that will give you the peace in your soul and assurance that we are never alone, especially in the dead of night when we awaken and it’s just us and the darkness.

I’m an adult Tigerlilly and I don’t need to be afraid of the dark or what comes next, I know that I am as prepared as I can be and I always seek knowledge to help me be better prepared. Praying to an invisible god is last on my list of preparations for adventures.
Also I asked my friends wife about the porn and she laughed and said more power to him, they have a very active sex life and it doesn’t seem to distract him from any of his husbandly duties.

Open your mind to the possibility. Just a little bit. I don’t know if you have ever heard of a group called Courage. It is small in number, and I hope is still around. It is comprised of Roman Catholic homosexuals who are a striving to live a chaste life, supporting each other and meeting regularly. I think there are other support groups out there that do the same thing. Just wondering if you have ever heard of Courage.

Nope never heard of them, I’m not going to give up my sex life to assuage your feelings about gay sex, it’s fun it’s not any more dangerous than straight sex and it helps keep my prostrate clean. Celibacy really holds no appeal and has no natural attraction. Basing my sex life on one passage written by a person who used to murder christians for fun really has no power over me.

@ The statistic about pornography being a staple of and homosexuals engaging in promiscuous sex, averaging 100-300 sexual encounters per year has been documented in many scientific and secular studies.

Even porn stars don’t get out that much and I know I follow them on twitter. a few sexaholics might be able to get up to those numbers but i’ve never met a single gay in my entire life that had even a hundred different partners a year. In my 35 years starting at age 13 I’ve only had 40ish and that’s 1.8 a year, hardly staggering numbers and on average with straights my age.

God never called anyone an abomination

so let me get this straight, your saying that despite the english translation saying that god calling things an abomination shouldn’t be misconstrued to imagine that god is calling someone or something an abomination because in the original hebrew it means something else? What happened to divine inspiration? shouldn’t the holy spirit have cleaned that up in editing? You mean people might take your holy book at face value and use it to preach a message of hate and death to the rest of the world? Gosh I didn’t see that coming. maybe if you had some rational basis for your morals…
Again and again people like to trot out the 10 commandments and say our law is based on it, but it’s not, our law is based on personal property rights. Do we have laws concerning Idols? holy days, swearing? no we don’t because they have nothing to do with personal property so they don’t matter.
My actions and my beliefs are not separate, just as you preach that christians must live by their beliefs you tell me that if I live by mine than I deserve to be punished by your god.(who I don’t believe in)
I don’t have to believe in magic to make sense of my world Tigerlilly none of us do.

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 11:03 AM

@Count to 10 You are advocating political marriages and there is still a place for that in our culture but not a very big one. If that’s the marriage you want than I’m not going to stop you but I suggest you mention this to your partner before you get them to agree with it. the marriages tha our culture pushes now are marriage between equals that want to be there. In order for you to survive the rigors of a relationship we pair bond with sex to renew feelings of attraction and desire. Your idea of marriage was common enough in our human past however there is social evolution to consider and it may be that we have developed a new marriage construct to deal with our new society.
As for my comment on young gays, your free to contact me through my blog and we can talk about this at length. I don’t feel comfortable pushing your buttons though this forum until I know more about you and your situation.

It looks as if you felt pushed into strict homosexuality as a response to your parents objection to any homosexual behavior at all.
I also call BS on your “all children are statistically equally likely to be gay”. Almost all self identified homosexuals I know were either, as children, seduced sexually by an member of the same sex or felt psychologically or socially abused by a member of the opposite sex. There was the gay pedophile priest scandal where the complainants were gay men. There are also statistics out there showing a high correlation between same-sex sexual abuse in childhood and homosexual self identity in adulthood.
Count to 10

also I am not a “strict gay’ by any means of the definition and I also address this same issue earlier in this thread about the causes of homosexuality from a gay perspective and from the perspective of a neurochemist and a biologist. The reason I stopped seeing women is I didn’t get hard and I had no empathy for their feelings and desires. I wanted to get hard, but it never happened. Playing them along passing it off as one reason or another became a sad and tragic game and i realized it reflected poorly on the man I wanted to be instead of the one I was playing at.

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 11:19 AM

Which is total BS. I suppose that all children should be heterosexually abused in order to make them become heterosexual?

SC.Charlie on August 27, 2010 at 10:11 AM

I am making no proposals for “what should be”, I am just telling you of the harm done by mistaken assumptions about the origins of this behavior.
Letting adults satisfy their sexual appetites on children is always a bad idea, but it is possible that some children are too sheltered from the mechanics of sex, and many are clearly misinformed about what the desires they feel say about their future.

Count to 10 on August 27, 2010 at 11:21 AM

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 11:19 AM

I’m not advocating “political marriages” (marriages as a proxy for a contract between families, generally restricted to the elite), and of course marriages are between equals. Where are you getting this stuff?

The reason I stopped seeing women is I didn’t get hard and I had no empathy for their feelings and desires. I wanted to get hard, but it never happened.

That happens to a lot of people. It’s mostly about the unfamiliarity of the situation. It can be very unexpected, shocking even, but it goes back to normal with familiarity. Of course, if you have something that you find more entertaining, something easier, it would be fairly easy to give up on it and never reach the leave of comfort required.

Count to 10 on August 27, 2010 at 11:32 AM

@Count to 10 your thoughts on sexual development do have some glaring holes in them Count, it’s only fair that people call you on them.

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 11:35 AM

@Count to 10 I really don’t need to be lectured to about not giving women a proper try. I dated over 8 women and turned down several more that were quite literally throwing themselves at me. There were several I wanted to get to know but i really didn’t have any curiosity about having sex with them. Your glib dismissal of other people’s lives as well as your belief that emotion is not important for marriages says more about you than me.

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 11:38 AM

@Count to 10 your thoughts on sexual development do have some glaring holes in them Count, it’s only fair that people call you on them.

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 11:35 AM

Yours thoughts are the ones with glaring holes, which is why I am calling you on them. You haven’t called me on anything, you’ve just reiterated the faith you have developed on the subject. I am telling you what is wrong with how you are looking at this, nothing more.

Count to 10 on August 27, 2010 at 11:40 AM

these are your words Court

Also one thing you mentioned — the “loveless marriage”: the idea that a marriage is purely an expression of love/infatuation/sexual desire is at the heart of this problem. Marriage is basically a contract to raise a family between two people who like each other well enough to live together and learn love and sex. However, that concept has been eroded over the years by the idea of “romance”, and entertainment culture has really attempted to replace the idea of that contract with a simple official recognition of a sexual relationship.

what happens if you get into the marriage and don’t develop affection for each other? in europe and india they just take mistress and lovers.

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 11:42 AM

@Count to 10 I really don’t need to be lectured to about not giving women a proper try. I dated over 8 women and turned down several more that were quite literally throwing themselves at me. There were several I wanted to get to know but i really didn’t have any curiosity about having sex with them. Your glib dismissal of other people’s lives as well as your belief that emotion is not important for marriages says more about you than me.

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 11:38 AM

I am not dismissing your life, nor am I saying that emotion is not important for marriages. I am saying that the emotion bond is developed over the course of a marriage — and imagining that it must be all be there, from the beginning, is what ripping families apart in the modern age.

If you decide not to pursue the female form, that is your choice. It’s really a habit, formed over years, not something that just springs up full bloom.

Unlike a lot of people I’m sure you have argued with, I respect your choice to live as you do, even if I think you could be doing better. It is the cover you are using to protect you from the criticism of those that do not respect it, the faith that you had no choice, that I am saying is not only self-limiting, but also imposes limits on others.

Count to 10 on August 27, 2010 at 11:48 AM

what happens if you get into the marriage and don’t develop affection for each other?

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 11:42 AM

You try working at it in a different way.
Granted, if the other spouse has entered into it on bad faith, and makes no effort, there isn’t much you can do but call it to an end, but, if both parties enter it in good faith, it should not be a problem.

Count to 10 on August 27, 2010 at 11:54 AM

@Count to 10 I’m going to say this in jest but I mean it with a bit more vin. People like you are the reasons bisexuals are despised by all.
I love how you take the “I respect you but you could totally be different if you just attached these electrodes to your temples” spiel. Apparently unlike you I actually researched what it would take to reset a brain, it’s not a guaranteed process of course but it is possible to completely wipe a brain an retrain it. Of course you suffer complete personality death and someone else is in your body. Also if your gayness happens to be one of the biological versions you’ll still be gay. So feel free to criticize all you want but I don’t feel like getting a lobotomy to earn your “respect”

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 11:59 AM

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 11:59 AM

How exactly did we get to wiping someone’s brain? I’m talking about learned habits. You can pick up new ones, you know, and sex is really just a habit.

You seem to have a lot of preconceptions about what I mean when I write something. When I say I respect your choice, I mean I respect that you have made a choice, and that you don’t intend to change you mind. It was your choice to make, and doesn’t harm me in any but the most far-fetch indirect ways. What I criticize is the mechanisms of defense you put up to deflect the criticism of people that don’t respect your decision, because that does have a number of negative effects.

Count to 10 on August 27, 2010 at 1:00 PM

Zekecorian,

You said the following:

How many times do I have to watch someone sink into despair and self abuse when god doesn’t make them straight? To people who are normal having a magical diety is all fun but to people who are different be it from mental disorders or biological issues like being gay it’s not nearly the fun ride

It seems that you are acknowledging that the struggle of homosexuality is not normal, (but still, I say that doesn’t warrent or justify condemnation of any homosexual person.)

Lots of human conditions aren’t normal, in fact our very natures, weak and prone to sin, aren’t normal, because we were originally created in wholeness and integrity, free from sin and sickness. However, that is not the nature of our existence now, and suffering, despair and self-abuse is not confined to the realm of a homosexual person who is struggling to either live free from sin, or falling under the weight of the continuation of the sin.

Nobody living or who has ever lived doesn’t suffer in some way, and usually very deeply. And many sufferings are for a lifetime. I know, I experience several, that I won’t go into here, but suffice it to say that without God and without other people of God stepping in when they did, I probably wouldn’t be here speaking with you.

I have no doubt that those who have homosexual inclinations carry a heavy suffering, both from their own actions and the actions of thoughtless and cruel people. But so do many hetero persons, for a multitude of reasons. And sometimes the suffering is brought about as a consequence of our own actions, and sometimes it is not. But suffering it is.

And many times, prayers to God seem to go unheard. The situation doesn’t change. But many times, the sufferer realizes that they, not the situation, is changing, and that they can bear up, with the help of people that seem to just “appear” in their lives, and with peace, and because a Person named Jesus Christ knows and has experienced all human suffering, and is with them every step of the way.

But it usually takes the giving up of certain actions or attitudes, and definately a willingness to bit by bit, surrender of our life to Him, and at that point He is is able to make us, bit by bit, a new creation in mind and heart.

I hear some anger at your version who God is, and if I thought He was as you think He is, I would hate him too.

But I say again, you are laboring under major misconceptions. I don’t know if your ignorance is self-induced, learned from others, or a mixture of both. But it’s something you should think about addressing.

And you scoff at what I am saying Zekecorian, and we could debate til the cows come home. I just think that whatever you did or didn’t learn about the mysteries of your Creator, sin, life, death, redemption and mercy, along with your creation of many fact-starved straw men only serves to justify a continuation in your actions. And I think your life is layered in these straw men and misconceptions and they are a cover for the real person you used to be, or were meant to be, who is now metaphorically gagged and locked in the basement.

And these choices, are yours, and personal to you, right or wrong.

But you should not push your choices, nor the acceptance or knowledge of them onto others, most especially children, using the force of legislation and the power of the law; using the smokescreen that it is about “educating” them, when in fact the intent is to mainstream personal sin.

Have you ever considered that exposing children to such explicit and perverse practices may confuse many of them, and launch their young minds onto a path that leads THEM into a life of despair and self abuse? And that YOU, in whatever way you promoted this are morally responsible for their suffering? Isn’t that what we are seeing with the youth all around us who have had their minds pickled and saturated from all angles with sex of every kind?

My Lord, why can’t we just enjoy our lives; enjoy all our gifts and talents, without this disorderd, unbalanced, unhealthy sexual obsession. And a part of homosexual activity is obsession with sex. Doesn’t it just make you weary of mind and spirit?

I am as much a fallen person as you are, and as much in need of redemption, and I would never dream of going on a crusade in trying to make others accept wrongs I have done and sins I have committed as something to be celebrated, taught to children, institutionalized and codified by policy and law, all the while disingenously claiming it’s necessary to protect constitutional rights that I already posess.

I understand and assume your good faith when you describe your wish to help other homosexual persons avoid suffering due to cruelty inflicted by fellow human beings. But that problem is not solved with the promoting of homosexuality as something that everyone must accept and be taught about through the force of law, with our tax dollars, as something as wholesome as apple pie.

And those at the top who are promoting this agenda, truth be told, don’t care about anyone else’s suffering. They are promoting it because, like any good Leftist, they want to attack and control others. They want to inflict, not help assuage suffering. They would attack God directly if they could, but since He is out of reach, they attack His creation, their fellow human beings.

And only teaching children charity, love of neighbor and a healthy dose of discipline when they offend others can tame the savage in all of us, and address your wish to help stem the bullying and abuse that happens to others who are perceived as “different”. I am not saying that this human sin of abuse and bullying can be eradicated completely, after all we live in a fallen world. But Christianity and Judaism teach that it is wrong; an affront to human dignity. Which is not to say that Christians/Jews don’t bully. But if they followed their faith more closely this regard, they would not.

And the past 20 years we have seen an avalanche of pc censorship and automatic “homophobe” and “bigot” name calling and extreme bullying aimed at anyone who dares to disagree. I’m grateful that you have not done so in speaking with me.

Zekecorian, until you realize that your limited humanity is going to be, if you haven’t already been, confronted with the suffering, mysteries and realities in life that just cannot be handled in any satisfactory way that brings peace and some real light, it may very well be that as the life curve continues to get steeper (it doesn’t get easier; life is tough, all the way through) that you may find yourself in a really unhappy, dark, lonesome and frightening place. Call out to Him anytime that happens though; He is always with you, anyway. He’ll send a few people to help you out, too.

p.s. Are you a humanist as in a secular humanist? Do you ascribe to the Humanist Manifesto, which is really just a retread of atheistic/marxist principles? Your humanism does sound like a whole lot like garden variety atheism.

pps: Just as an aside, while I’m thinking of it, you are not correct in saying that the explosion of new std’s is not a reality, that in fact they always existed. No, you must do the scientific reseach, all laid out in secular medium. These are all new, and many times incurable diseases that did NOT exist prior to the “sexual revolution”. And as for your friend’s wife, I will never believe that she is approving of her husband’s habitual and chronic use of porn. She may have been putting up a good front for you; I imagine something that deep may not be something she would want to discuss. Or, if she truly accepts it, sad to say but she has a screw loose. Porn, according to many secular scientific studies, actually alters the brain in physically quantifiable ways that are quite harmful and in some ways reflective of what any addiction does to the brain. Those who practice it and have gotten away from it describe it as a highly addictive livign hell that rots the mind, numbs emotions and compassion for others and kills the soul. And that’s porn aimed at anyone, homo or hetero.

In these posts I have tried to speak in terms of both “secular” facts, backed up by science and also share with you a little about the One who your soul knows already, on the deepest level, better than I could ever help you to know, because He created you. You are free to deny it, but you will have to continue to go through some illogical and somewhat angry mental processes in order to stay in denial. Your free will, a gift unique to human beings, can be used in service of the truth, as far as we fallen humans can go, because we will never be perfect, and I know very well that we live in a fallen world, or in service against the truth. The choice is yours Zekecorian, thanks to the God who gave you free will. But the consequences of the choice are yours, also. That should give anyone pause…

tigerlily on August 27, 2010 at 1:36 PM

so let me get this straight, your saying that despite the english translation saying that god calling things an abomination shouldn’t be misconstrued to imagine that god is calling someone or something an abomination because in the original hebrew it means something else? What happened to divine inspiration? shouldn’t the holy spirit have cleaned that up in editing? You mean people might take your holy book at face value and use it to preach a message of hate and death to the rest of the world? Gosh I didn’t see that coming. maybe if you had some rational basis for your morals…

Zekecorian, what the he!! are you talking about????? Really!
I don’t get what words you are trying to put into my mouth,
or into Scripture. Let my try to say this one more time, and please read slowly:

No where, in any translation of Scripture, does God call any human being an abomination. Ever. Period. End. of. Story.

When God speaks of anger and abomination, it is ALWAYS within the context of human ACTIONS

And when God speaks of His human creation in their persons, no matter how far they have strayed, it is with a desire for their salvation; with mercy and love for His children.
He says, “I have loved you with an everlasting love, I have called you by name and you are mine.”

You need to start a real love affair, Zekecorian, one that will change you and give you more happiness than you could ever have expected in this life.

P.S. What did you mean when you said to CountTo10 should contact you on your blog regarding homosexuality and young men, because you couldn’t be sure that you could “push his buttons” on this forum?

tigerlily on August 27, 2010 at 1:47 PM

pps: Need to put another straw man of yours to rest, Zekecorlian. Sorry.

You said that you didn’t think that you should be concerned with being punished by my God.

Well, let me clear this up for you. Properly understood Christianity teaches us that God does not actually punish us, in this life, or in the next. WE CHOOSE OURSELVES the course of our life now, and also choose where we will spend eternity.

This is the awesome power and responsiblity of our free will, which acts at our own behest, landing us in hot water or in clover; it’s up to US.

Our free will separation from God in this life brings about unhappiness, but, even if we have ejected Him from our hearts, He and His beauty remain present and reflected to us in an infinite number of ways.

Not so after death, when our freely chosen separation from God will deprive us of all beauty, truth, goodness and light. It is beyond speaking about, so I’ll end here. Just don’t choose it for yourself.

tigerlily on August 27, 2010 at 2:02 PM

@court well if you had done your research you would have found out that the reason that all the Psychiatrist associations in the world agree that gay conversion therapy doesn’t work is that sexual attraction is not a habit. It is hard wired into peoples brains and to undo it you have to wipe the brain and start again. Sex might be a habit but attraction is a complex layering of memories and desires. You don’t like the color blue because you see it all the time, You like the color blue because it reminds you of a warm day as a child and the smell of flowers and the sound of your mothers voice.
Your blathering about conversion therapy is just that, it’s been dis-proven by every study done and if you talk to people that have undergone it and really wanted it to work they’ll tell you that same sex attraction never goes away some people just try to find something else to think about when it happens. there are many sites and testimonies that back this up, as well as the long history of ‘ex-gays’ slipping into gay bars to grab a bit of tail. The reason I must stress this is that it harms the vast majority of people who undergo the process. but most importantly wastes the time and the money of those who are desperate for a cure.
To put it kindly your wrong. Your understanding of both human sexuality, human relationships, sexual attraction, and even how the brain works is simply wrong. The danger is that some young gay will here you and believe you and waste years if not decades wondering why he can’t get it to work right. That is why I bother repeating this message, and that is why I think it’s important to educate young people about sex education.

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 2:03 PM

Zekecorlian, I’m not trying to be smart, but why do you follow porn stars on twitter? Why are you into porn?

tigerlily on August 27, 2010 at 2:04 PM

What are you talking about? Put the BONG down and walk away.

CWforFreedom

Sorry, but its true. Social Conservatives used to be a major bloc of the Democratic Party, along with trade unions. It was not all that long ago that the South voted hardcore Democrat, even when there were big government Democrats like FDR and LBJ, and baffoons like Carter.

Historically, The GOP was represented by northeasterners in it for the economic side, and the western states in it because of limited government and individual freedoms. Those western state Republicans were not really what one would call social conservatives.

Social Conservatives have never been much on the individual freedom part, morality was always more important. I grew up in a very social conservative area, and there were some of the silliest laws, all to control how people lived. You would have thought fire and brimstone were set to come down on our Texan town, because the people actually dared to vote to allow liquor sales, and repealing blue laws.

Social Conservatives started migrating from the democratic party to the Republican Party starting in the late 60s, and going through the 90s. Of course we got from the social conservatives, LBJ and Jimmy Carter as Presidents, so excuse me if I am not too big on them acting like their values determine who is a real Republican or not.

People like Goldwater and President Ford, would be faux Republicans and “RINO”s to the social conservatives. But then again, those two were not moral busybodies either. But they were real Republicans, when the social conservatives were falling all over themselves to give us Democrat big government Presidents.

So excuse me if I take umbrage at Social Conservatives who seem to think that their movement is what gave us the Republican Party, and that they should be in charge

firepilot on August 27, 2010 at 2:16 PM

@tigerlilly obviously you don’t understand the concept of strawman arguments so I’ll construct one, Say Farmer Bob has two baskets, one with apples, one with oranges. Farmer Bob turns to you and says, “Tigerlilly your my favorite daughter, I just brought these fruits in from the field and I want you to choose one, you can have either one and it’s totally your choice. But if you pick the wrong one I’m going to shoot you in the head and burn your body.” This is your freewill argument, it’s not very good and it doesn’t matter, I don’t care if you tell me that your code is going to give me cancer in this life or the next because I don’t believe in it. I’ll answer your longer post when i get some more time later.

As for @count to 10 if you read my responses to him I’m sure you could figure it. I feel he’s playing a disingenuous game with a faulty thought and if he’s bisexual than it might work for him but if he’s gay than he’s going to hurt someone very badly, and I’d like the chance to discourage him in that course of action.

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 2:17 PM

Zekecorlian, I’m not trying to be smart, but why do you follow porn stars on twitter? Why are you into porn?

tigerlily

sometimes because I find them attractive and sometimes because I like them as people. porn is just candy, you can have to much of it and it would rot your teeth but a little now and than is pleasant.

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 2:19 PM

Sorry, I’ve been misspelling your name. Zekecorlain, not Zekecorlien.

That is why I bother repeating this message, and that is why I think it’s important to educate young people about sex education.

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 2:03 PM

Your solution to someone confused about his/her sexuality is not to teach purity and chastity, for homo AND hetero outside of marriage, for life, if need be.

No, your solution teaches a headlong descent into practicing any and every kind of sex that comes to mind; properly informed conscience be damned, parental help (sometimes absent or even destructive) be damned, no, just jump on that homosexual thang and run-on-hell-bent, into a life of God knows what, because in school you “learned” all the details and that a fist up your anus was a good thing.

While it may be that some persons cannot look at sex any other way but through the prism of homosexuality, young persons with this issue do not need to be fast tracked into living this out for the rest of their lives by perverts pretending to “educate”.

Young people, in fact all of us, need to be taught to courageously and nobly protect our own souls, accept our own particular suffering and limitations, while developing our gifts and talents to help others, and to live very close to the heart of God in our suffering.

Because all will suffer in this life, but why exacerbate it to unknown heights by living it out in the darkness of sin, still suffering, but even more despairingly beecause God has been banished?

And whether a person can be changed or not, (and usually an older person who has lived the life for years cannot change)is not the point. The point is, no matter what state you find yourself in, homosexual or unmarried hetero, both are called to live in purity and integrity. Sexual activity is reserved to marriage, and even in marriage, there are lines that should not be crossed, in order to maintain the honor and integrity of each spouse for the other. Sexual activity outside of marriage is not a human right. It is something ordained by God, to be practiced in marriage, for the propagation and security of children and for the knitting together of their parents, so that we may have some kind of hope of maintaining a sane society, not a disordered, chaotic mess resulting in disordered chaotic personalities who are intent on taking as many down their dark road with them as they can.

tigerlily on August 27, 2010 at 2:42 PM

Zekecorlain, I’ll catch you later, but your straw man argument is a straw man itself. God doesn’t offer you two beautiful baskets of fruit, each equally beautiful. He tells you that if you choose the basket that LOOKS good at first, but in fact there are really snakes hidden under the beautiful fruit, you will be bitten and surely die. So God says, DON’T CHOOSE that basket, because I am telling you how bad it really is, and what will happen if you do.

That’s a Father looking out for his child, not trying to deceive a child as you seem to suggest. And aren’t we all like children who may be weilding his/her free will as stupidly as a five year old with matches? A little humility will allow you to answer in the affirmative.

btw, your porn as candy analogy is cute, but a little porn is more like a little cyanide. Deadly at any dose. What is your definition of now and then? How often do you view porn before it is enough to get to know the “stars” and to want to follow them on twitter?

tigerlily on August 27, 2010 at 2:55 PM

@tigerlilly
If someone told you that unless you converted Buddha was going to curse you and your family, would you convert? What if they repeated this every time you spoke to them, would you convert than? What if they printed out some papers and showed you in their book where it said you were going to burn in a lake of fire while having dragon dogs pull your intestines unless you converted? What if they offered you a muffin and than said all this again?
What if the time after that they gathered a group of their friends who you don’t know and shouted at you from the sidewalk all these same things? What if they than came the next day and brought you muffins, some cookies, a pint of milk and a book that said your children were suffering because you refused to convert? What if they sent their children to beat up your children because you hadn’t converted. When you brought this to the attention of the principal they said they were trying to save your families immortal souls.
Is any of this sinking in? anytime you try to convince me that your god is going to punish me I really don’t care. I respect that you like to believe these things but as an argument it is pointless.
Also your fascination with kinky gay sex is a bit bizarre. I have never advocated telling children that they should fist each other, sex education is pretty basic, it tells you which parts you have, how to keep them clean, how to use them, and what happens when you do. It never goes into detail about sexual fetishes except to say that they exist and that if you over do it you could hurt yourself. This is the boogeyman you run screaming from. Some simple lessons that could save your children’s lives. At no point in sex ed does it say that praying to jesus will help keep you from getting pregnant. at no point does it a sex slave walk in, in full bondage gear and rape your children, at no point is pornography shown. There is usually some snickering and giggling but most kids are to mortified to ask questions.

My Lord, why can’t we just enjoy our lives; enjoy all our gifts and talents, without this disorderd, unbalanced, unhealthy sexual obsession. And a part of homosexual activity is obsession with sex. Doesn’t it just make you weary of mind and spirit?

this is an excellent question why are you so obsessed about sex, your the one that keeps bringing it up, your the one that seems to know about it in graphic detail. Have you ever thought about that? You seem convinced that all gays do is wander around having sex, lets see one of my gay friends has been celibate for two years, the other has been in a monogamous relationship for 4 years, yet another gay friend just met his first real bf when he turned 29 and has been with him ever since. We’re all pretty quiet folk. Yes there are gays that go out and have a lot of sex but they are not the norm. In fact lets look at the numbers gay males make up about 2.6% of the population, in a population of 135,000 that’s 4050 male gays of all ages, now about half of those are partnered up, and a third of them are in the closet or not openly dating. already that’s 3240 gays off the open market that leaves 810 gays ranging in age from new born to near dead. We’ll be generous and that leaves 600 gays actively dating and sleeping around at any one time. From my experience that’s even a little high. Basically I will know someone at any get together or party I go to. How would I sleep with 300 new people every year if the dating pool is that limited??? The gay population is of limited and fixed size.
Also how is when faced with an opposing idea like my friends wife being ok with porn you construct a wildly fanciful idea of what you imagine her mindset is? How do you claim to have such insight? Can you read minds now?

My philosophy of humanism is simple, we should each try to help those around us, endeavor to end cycles of violence, bring peace to our community, and leave the world a little better than we found it. Thats it, no mystic mumbo jumbo no complicated political message. It’s simple and thats all I need. the great part is no one comes asking me for money every sunday so instead I give that money to my friends in need and now I’m the god father of two wonderful kids, and yes they know I’m gay and they’ve met my former bf. They really didn’t care but they liked him speaking german they thought it was silly.

Zekecorlain on August 27, 2010 at 4:46 PM

Zekecorlain, I posted this on 8/27 originally, but it never came through. Here it is again. Maybe you will see it. If so, please understand that you are under no obligation to reply, as I will be unable to post back to you for at least a week due to my schedule.

As to your last post: I have been discussing questions of God, fallen nature, sin, life, death, mercy, redemtion, scientific study and much more. Nowhere have I threatened you with a lake of fire if you don’t convert. Whether you convert or not is not up to me. It’s between you and the Lord. I can do nothing more than pray for you, and have these conversations, if I think they would spark something, but I don’t think that’s the case, so I’ll just offer a prayer.

As to my being obsessed with sex – no. I’m talking to you about it because homosexual activists, of which you are one, are obsessed with “teaching” children about acting out every possible perversion imaginable.

And since this is what we have been discussing, and since you are a man in your late 40′s who seems to have much interest in youth and homosexuality, I wonder why you are misrepresenting some really basic facts here. To wit:

You are claiming that the sex education that is promoted by homosexual activists like yourself and/or in concert with groups such as Planned Parenthood, or SEICUS, or any number of other groups who work closely together on this agenda are basically harmless, merely teaching children the mechanics of reproduction, how their parts work, how to “keep them clean”, etc. You say that the homosexual information, which is sketchy at best, is only there to prevent children from forming “fetishes”, whatever that means. All of the above is in the province of parental teaching, and none of the business of any teacher, by the way, but parental abdication of their children to strangers is another story.

Anyway, to make the above claim as you do, about the current harmless and beneficial state of sex ed, you are either ignorant of the facts, reading curricula from forty years ago and uninformed in the extreme, or you are practicing a crass and transparent deception. Granted, most parents, who are woefully uninformed, would believe you.

I am not one of them.

I also don’t appreciate your misrepresentation of the facts (look at the studies from the past thirty-five years) that homosexuality is not predominately disposed to promiscuity and pornography. Your personal insistence of this with your personal anecdotes are not representative of the behavioural patterns as a whole which has been scientifically measured and statisitically proven out in study after study.

But getting back to the sex ed that you are promoting. I have seen the teachers manuals and the curriculums that are in use and are being pushed into the pipeline. Have you? And if not, why not? And if so, how do you not recognize
them as the most graphic and depraved theft of innocence?
But then you say childhood innocence is a delusion, so how can an illusion be stolen?

Bottom line, these sex ed curricula are absolutely nothing as you so innocently describe. In a word, they are pornographic. But since porn is described by you as being like candy, I don’t think you would find any of this harmful to children. But why don’t you tell the truth about it’s content? Why did you misrepresent it to me?

And because I speak out graphically and matter of factly about the homosexual practices which are taught or are being schemed to be taught to our children, you want to silence me by calling me obsessed. You only firm up my resolve to speak out louder.

Do you have the same opinion of sexual obsession about the pornographic sex education that you are promoting? Or is it not obsession when you are cramming this garbage into innocent minds behind parent’s backs all the while convincing yourself that it is for the child’s own good. Who are you to judge such a thing, and against millenia of teaching to the contrary?

You said you were going to keep on doing what you are doing because it is fun. If you want to run yourself into a ditch in the name of “fun”, that is your choice.

And if you kept your personal life personal and didn’t want to take children into the ditch with you I would have nothing to say.

And if you didn’t want to talk about it, I would just pray for you.

But you insist on making your personal choices and your personal sins very public. You insist that they be accepted, celebrated, forced into unsuspecting children’s minds, destroying the few years of innocence that they have, and you want to use the force of law and every political means and trick at your disposal to do it. And you want it done using my tax dollars.

So now I do have something to say.

Because I won’t be bullied into a pc silence to stand by and let adults take out on innocents their personal problems, sins, “fetishes”, abusive manipulations or perversions, regardless of whether those adults are homo or hetero. Period.

I am upset that you are not being honest in our discussions, because I can’t believe anyone as deeply involved as you are doesn’t know exactly what is being taught, and how much further this “teaching” is being planned to go. If everything is so great about what you are doing, why the need to deceive? If the kids can learn about men’s penises in each others anuses and mouths, fisting, glory holes, golden showers, etc., etc., why can’t the parents of these innocents know that’s what the kids are learning?

Say it loud and say it proud, right? Then let the parents decide.

But that wouldn’t work, would it. So taqiyya it is.

Zekecorlain, I think the best thing for us to do is pray for each other, or in your case, at least wish me well, as I do you. Also, I would like to visit your blog, if you don’t mind, and would like to post the link.

I have been discussing questions of God, fallen nature, sin, life, death, mercy, redemtion, scientific study and much more. Nowhere have I threatened you with a lake of fire if you don’t convert. Whether you convert or not is not up to me. It’s between you and the Lord. I can do nothing more than pray for you, and have these conversations, if I think they would spark something, but I don’t think that’s the case, so I’ll just offer a prayer.

As to my being obsessed with sex – no. I’m talking to you about it because homosexual activists, of which you are one, are obsessed with “teaching” children about acting out every possible perversion imaginable.

And since this is what we have been discussing, and since you are a man in your late 40′s who seems to have much interest in youth and homosexuality, I wonder why you are misrepresenting some really basic facts here. To wit:

You are claiming that the sex education that is promoted by homosexual activists like yourself and/or in concert with groups such as Planned Parenthood, or SEICUS, or any number of other groups who work closely together on this agenda are basically harmless, merely teaching children the mechanics of reproduction, how their parts work, how to “keep them clean”, etc. You say that the homosexual information, which is sketchy at best, is only there to prevent children from forming “fetishes”, whatever that means. All of the above is in the province of parental teaching, and none of the business of any teacher, by the way, but parental abdication of their children to strangers is another story.

Anyway, to make the above claim as you do, about the current harmless and beneficial state of sex ed, you are either ignorant of the facts, reading curricula from forty years ago and uninformed in the extreme, or you are practicing a crass and transparent deception. Granted, most parents, who are woefully uninformed, would believe you.

I am not one of them.

I also don’t appreciate your misrepresentation of the facts (look at the studies from the past thirty-five years) that homosexuality is not predominately disposed to promiscuity and pornography. Your personal insistence of this with your personal anecdotes are not representative of the behavioural patterns as a whole which has been scientifically measured and statisitically proven out in study after study.

But getting back to the sex ed that you are promoting. I have seen the teachers manuals and the curriculums that are in use and are being pushed into the pipeline. Have you? And if not, why not? And if so, how do you not recognize
them as the most graphic and depraved theft of innocence?
But then you say childhood innocence is a delusion, so how can an illusion be stolen?

Bottom line, these sex ed curricula are absolutely nothing as you so innocently describe. In a word, they are pornographic. But since porn is described by you as being like candy, maybe you wouldn’t think that this is harmful to children.

And because I speak out graphically and matter of factly about the homosexual practices which are taught or are being schemed to be taught to our children, you want to silence me by calling me obsessed. You only firm up my resolve to speak out louder. And it is by deliberate and conscious decision that I speak in detail about what really occurs in these acts. It is so that true education may occur through knowledge of what is not “kinky gay sex” as you say, but normative gay sex. Knowledge is power. No one can oppose something if the reality of the thing is hidden from them.

I’m also wondering if you have the same opinion of sexual obsession about yourself regarding the pornographic sex education that you are promoting? Or is it not obsession when you are cramming this garbage into innocent minds behind parent’s backs, all the while convincing yourself that it is for the child’s own good. Who are you to judge such a thing, and against millenia of teaching to the contrary, and in 99% of cases against the parent’s own wishes, if they but knew?

You said you were going to keep on doing what you are doing because it is “fun”. If you want to make personal decisions and suffer the consequences in the name of fun, that is your choice.

And if you kept your personal life personal and didn’t want to take children into the ditch with you I would have nothing to say beyond my hope and a prayer for your salvation.

But you insist on making your personal choices and your personal sins very public. You insist that they be accepted, celebrated, forced into unsuspecting children’s minds, destroying the few years of innocence that they have, and you want to use the force of law and every political means and trick at your disposal to do it. And you want it done using my tax dollars.

So now I do have something to say.

Because I won’t be bullied into pc silence to stand by and let adults take out on innocents their personal problems, sins, “fetishes”, abusive manipulations or perversions, regardless of whether those adults are homo or hetero. Period.

I am upset that you are not being honest in our discussions, because I can’t believe anyone as deeply involved as you are doesn’t know exactly what is being taught, and how much further this “teaching” is planned to go. If everything is so great about what you are doing, why the need to deceive? If the kids can learn about men’s penises in each others anuses and mouths, fisting, glory holes, golden showers, etc., etc., why can’t the parents of these innocents know that’s what the kids are learning?

Say it loud and say it proud, right? Then let the parents decide. Only you and I both know that they would tar and feather you for trying to put that crap into their children’s minds.
Zekecorlain, I think the best thing for us to do is pray for each other, or in your case, at least wish me well, as I do you. Also, you might want to pick up a book called the “Confessions of St. Augustine”. Augustine lived in an age of pagan excess. In today’s terminology he would be considered and orgy kind of party animal. He talks about his life and “what made him tick” and how it affected him, even though like you, he didn’t want to give up the “fun”. He found a better way and became awesomely changed. He thinks for the better. Hope you read it someday.

tigerlily on August 30, 2010 at 11:06 PM

I’m only 35 not sure where you got the other number. Here some teachers manuals for sex ed, this one is from 1981 the wiki article talking about the US system as well as foreign examples. If sex education doesn’t work why is it that countries with the most explicit sex education have the lowest teen pregnancy and std rates Here are the lesson plans from Advocates for youth something distributed today.
In fact ignorance of sex and biology is the primary reason we have such a problem with STD’s and early pregnancy’s.
Once again your desire to coddle children hurts them more than helps them. Again and again you use the word innocence, You claim that it is good but since your concept of innocence is simply giant holes left in people’s education your really not making a strong case. After all, once you rip off the blind fold you put on all these kids you suddenly toss them in a world of frothing hormones, alcohol, and emotional pain. Face it the world isn’t going to change because you pretend something doesn’t exist. You want to ignore gays, despite the fact that your own children might be suffering in silence, unable to put to words what they are feeling. Your daughters might be abused by a member of their family and never tell anyone. These are not random mutterings either, three of my aunts were abused by a cousin and didn’t tell anyone for 30 years despite having massive psych problems for years due to it. I was gay but I didn’t have any words for it, I thought all the boys were going through the same thing I was. When i see the younger gays now, I’m so happy for them, they get to avoid years and years of absolute torment trying to understand whats going on.
LOL your advising me to follow St Augustine? I like the Dali painting a print is actually hanging in my living room. I find it amusing that you only take the good out of the story and not the weird and bad parts. I mean besides coming up with the idea of original sin, he eschews free will and celibacy. (only after years of living with his concubine who he dumped for an arranged marriage with an underage girl who he decided against in the end.)
awesome…

And because I speak out graphically and matter of factly about the homosexual practices which are taught or are being schemed to be taught to our children, you want to silence me by calling me obsessed. You only firm up my resolve to speak out louder. And it is by deliberate and conscious decision that I speak in detail about what really occurs in these acts. It is so that true education may occur through knowledge of what is not “kiky gay sex” as you say, but normative gay sex. Knowledge is power. No one can oppose something if the reality of the thing is hidden from them.

You may be telling yourself that you just talk about gay sex to educate people but your just doing it for shock value. I don’t need to talk about all the weird straight sex my married friends have in order to have a conversation about sex ed. You on the other hand go on and on about it. I already know about gay sex, you do too, I also know that one of my straights friends likes watersports, in fact she has few qualms talking about it. Is it shocking? It was at first but in the vast array of human sexuality it’s not that weird.
You say that only parents have the right to talk to their children about sex, but lots of people are going to, on the playground, at church, (I lost my virginity at a church mostly cause that’s the only place my parents took me.) on TV, on the news. You can’t stop them from learning about it. It’s a huge part of our human nature. Why not accept the fact that an educator with a proper lesson plan might be able to do a better job? Do you teach your kids geometry and physics? Probably not because it’s complicated and some people spend years learning how to teach the subject to kids for maximum benefit.
I don’t think I’ve been anything but honest, I’ve shared deeply personal stories in an effort to help educate others about what happens to gays growing up in our system, I’ve argued that the status quo on bullies should not be continued, I’ve reminded you that gays are normal parts of the human species. I don’t need pray or mystical experiences to convince you, I have research and facts to back up my beliefs not just fears and over hyped propaganda.
Kids are going to grow up and they are going to be exposed to the world as it is rather than how you want it to be. Education is a better tool for dealing with it than faith. Education can help you spot lies and peer pressure, education will give you the tools to resist adults who try to abuse them. Why you take offense to all this I don’t know, I don’t really care about your religion, but neither does 4 billion other people on this globe, I’m not straight. I don’t date children, I pay my taxes, and I support my friends and family. I support these things because it’s good for kids and good for the country.

Zekecorlain on September 3, 2010 at 5:00 PM

I responded but there are a lot of links in there so it might take some time to post

Zekecorlain on September 3, 2010 at 5:00 PM

It’s above now @tigerlily

Zekecorlain on September 7, 2010 at 10:09 AM

Comment pages: 1 3 4 5