EPA considering ban on lead-based ammunition?
posted at 4:48 pm on August 25, 2010 by Allahpundit
Via Mark Hemingway. Hey, if air is an environmental hazard worthy of federal regulation, surely bullets are too, no?
I could sit here for a week and not come up with an issue more likely to make already vulnerable House Dems wet themselves than this one, assuming that the EPA acts on it. Which, I’m guessing, they won’t.
NSSF is springing into action, as the public comment period opens on EPA considering a regulation that will ban all traditional lead ammunition. This would basically end the shooting sports as we know it. Remember this is a no-win situation for us, because bullets made of materials other than lead are often considered armor piercing by law. Copper is your basic material, and copper is expensive, and has much poorer performance properties than lead.
As NSSF has pointed out, there’s no real scientific basis for restricting lead ammunition. Just about all shooting ranges at this point are recycling their lead (it’s too valuable to just leave in the ground). California’s ban has not been shown to reduce lead levels in Condors, and has driven more people away from hunting. Additionally, it’s interfered with lawful self-protection in parts of California that are considered condor habitat.
Here’s the site where you can read the official petition, leave a comment, etc. The date the comment period ends? Two days before the midterms. Worst-case scenario here: The EPA announces the ban, thereby instantly causing a stampede of Blue Dogs from rural districts down Pennsylvania Avenue so that they can pass a bill overriding it. (If the ban comes next year, our new Republican House — and Senate? — will take care of it, natch.) Then it’s on to The One’s desk for signature, and rest assured, with his eye on 2012 and knowing that he’ll need western and midwestern states to win, he will sign it. Maybe even with a smiley face as the “O.” Damn, I love wedge issues.
Blowback
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True. An outright ban would never fly, but it’s certainly possible to regulate ammunition into something too expensive for most people to indulge in.
Technically, automatic rifles are perfectly legal, if you don’t mind paying the high price for a legal permit. But that price is high enough that 95% of all gun owners feel no need for anything more than a semiautomatic.
Vigilance is still required to prevent backdoor regulatory/tax approaches to restricting guns and ammunition.
More to the point in this instance, a case can be made for eliminating lead shot for waterfowl hunting, but to use that to ban all lead ammo would be a pretext.
There Goes The Neighborhood on August 25, 2010 at 7:23 PM
Huh? I thought we were talking ammo,
not Joe Biden’s idiot remarks.knives, and then forks, then spoons?Chip on August 25, 2010 at 7:26 PM
Wanton plunderers! Ah, so being forced by The State to change from an incandescent light bulb to a Compact Fluorescent bulb will mitigate this plundering you claim is occurring? How?
Buy Danish on August 25, 2010 at 7:29 PM
Cause I’m too damn lazy to take the time to link to all the research for and against and to recount for you the inner debates I’ve had about it over the past two years and why and how I have come down on the side of AGW.
‘Sides, it wouldn’t matter to you, so why try?
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 7:30 PM
That’s not my point. My point is clear, unrefuteable evidence shouldn;t have to be linked to … you should just be able to say “well, this does this and this is this, so the effect is this and if you want to read it go here”.
Get it?
When the AGW crowd first started this nonsense decades ago it was CO2 cause global warming. They really expected people not to question them. As it turns out, CO2 really can’t cause global warming to the extent they say, especially not the tiny amount produced by man.
Hey, if they want to try and tax nature, they should give it a go, but leave us alone.
darwin on August 25, 2010 at 7:35 PM
It’s called efficiency gains, and conservation of energy resources. It’s only one of many other things we are going to have to change.
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 7:36 PM
A friend in Ohio sent along some practical advice in how to address this power grab by the EPA.
The site includes facts, talking points, and contact information to make your opinions known.
http://ht.ly/2uPvE
onlineanalyst on August 25, 2010 at 7:38 PM
It’s not just a permit. It’s registration with each auto weapon with the ATF. Extensive background check. Submitting fingerprints(and soon DNA) for ATF records. Obtaining approval for each weapon from your local sheriff or police chief.
After all, the Second Amendment was just about hunting, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a crazed nut worrying about armaggeddeon.
MadisonConservative on August 25, 2010 at 7:38 PM
And that change of course requires giving power and the ability to effect those changes into the hands of your bosses who understand the problem more deeply than the rest of us, right?
sharrukin on August 25, 2010 at 7:39 PM
Nope, not so easy. At least not for me. But then again I’m not here to try to educate you, you have to do that yourself. It takes time and effort.
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 7:39 PM
Chink chink chink…hand falls off…chink chink chink…forearm falls off…
Need I continue…
jerrytbg on August 25, 2010 at 7:40 PM
I shoot the hippopotamus
With bullets made of platinum
Because if I use leaden ones
His hide is sure to flatten ‘em
–Hilare Belloc
/Because I had to
There Goes The Neighborhood on August 25, 2010 at 7:41 PM
You should do the same regarding your right to keep and bear arms. You’ve got the same insight on that issue that a kindergartner has on climatology.
MadisonConservative on August 25, 2010 at 7:41 PM
I’d just like to point out that those “doves” trailboss claims to hunt seem to more properly be named “pigeons.” Pretty tough to bag, especially after the ground’s been baited with breadcrumbs. And loons? Well, I guess someone has to hunt them, once all of the hamster licenses have been snapped up. Dude, try some decent bait and tackle, you might bring a few more home for dinner. And, for Pete’s sake, give them pigeons a break. Something has to eat all that left wing drivel…
creekspecter on August 25, 2010 at 7:45 PM
Nope, there’s far more you can do in your own life, if you would, but you won’t. So yes, then the UN Troopers will have to swoop down out of the Black Helicopters take your guns and lead-based ammunition away before they can safely take away your extremely inefficient tungsten-filament light bulbs that cost you more money to run than do the more efficient CFL’s or better yet the far better LED based bulbs now on the market. Cause of course the UN can’t stand for you to save money ON YOUR OWN!
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 7:45 PM
As I’ve asked before, Madison, enlighten me.
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 7:47 PM
Yes wanton plunderers seeding mercury through the biosphere – THAT should be good for the environment!
Chip on August 25, 2010 at 7:47 PM
FTR…UN uses GRAY Heilo’s
jerrytbg on August 25, 2010 at 7:51 PM
Translation: I don’t have a good answer, so I’ll dodge the question.
Chip on August 25, 2010 at 7:52 PM
Crap, I hate not being up to date on the latest UN moves.
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 7:53 PM
And what business is it of your’s what I do with my money or my life?
sharrukin on August 25, 2010 at 7:55 PM
Not to mention the scientific method..
Chip on August 25, 2010 at 7:55 PM
Yeah, no one ever does. Kinda funny. The world is about to end but I can’t tell you why … just believe me!!!!!
darwin on August 25, 2010 at 7:56 PM
Trailboss, what non-lead substance can I melt and pour in my shop when casting bullets?
rogerb on August 25, 2010 at 7:58 PM
I’m not here to try to educate you, you have to do that yourself. It takes time and effort.
MadisonConservative on August 25, 2010 at 7:58 PM
trailboss is part of the Oppressive elite – they know what’s best for all of us, don’t you see?
Chip on August 25, 2010 at 7:59 PM
I really could care less what you do or don’t do with your money or your life. I’m not here to convert anyone, just to state my own opinions, and enjoy the entertainment value I get watching you nutters sputter and spit and blow fuses. It’s mean spirited but I like it.
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 7:59 PM
So at last we agree on something.
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 8:00 PM
Thanks for the link AP, I left this:
agmartin on August 25, 2010 at 8:01 PM
I dunno, try earwax. There’s a ton of supply here on HA.
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 8:01 PM
Your moniker implies that you would have local knowledge…
Make no mistake…I would rather hire Jim bob down at the local feed store…
jerrytbg on August 25, 2010 at 8:03 PM
Then you are just blithering pseudo-scientific nonsense in a desperate attempt for attention.
sharrukin on August 25, 2010 at 8:06 PM
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 8:07 PM
Just curious, have you looked into swaging or casting your own bullets? Do you like the wadcutters and semi-wadcutters or is there a way to swage the bullets with a jacket? I have reloaded quite a bit and prefer the JHP and the FMJs along with the V-max bullets.
fourdeucer on August 25, 2010 at 8:07 PM
Yup, got all the attention I needed for the day. Thanks for playing.
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 8:08 PM
Mine was a serious question. I figured since you’re a lead-free advocate
who
that you’d have some idea of adequately-performing and stable alternatives with easily attainable melting points.
You’re the one who supports the alternatives. Show me one that functions like what I currently use. Otherwise it’s not an alternative but a new product.
rogerb on August 25, 2010 at 8:09 PM
Once again -
What do lightbulbs have to do with global warming? The answer is…nothing.
You are conflating 2 issues – The availability of energy (which I would argue exists in God-given abundance) and global warming.
Moreover, one can choose to save energy using that free will you spoke of earlier. You are essentially demanding that government force us to do it on their terms, restricting our liberty (or free will!) in the process.
While were at it- perhaps you can explain why global warming is used to advance the goal of “redistributive change”, and why I have to use light bulbs I don’t want in order to attempt to accomplish a goal which is impossible to arrange?
Buy Danish on August 25, 2010 at 8:10 PM
Sorry, my bad.
I have never reloaded, so I wouldn’t know what does and doesn’t work on the bench.
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 8:11 PM
Don’t waste your time…he’s a stooge…I’m done with him…
jerrytbg on August 25, 2010 at 8:13 PM
LOL Trailboss fail again.
Good job dood.
Inanemergencydial on August 25, 2010 at 8:14 PM
Here’s something that will help you out: what do you think the Second Amendment is for?
MadisonConservative on August 25, 2010 at 8:15 PM
Nay, not so.
Danish, it’s our overuse of carbon based energy such as coal, for light and heat and industry that drives AGW. We can use other forms of limitless and non-polluting energy but because we have formed our current economies totally on carbon, it will take a long time to make change-overs.
Do you really think that mis-use of natural energy resources is what God expects of us?
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 8:17 PM
Clearly you Oppressives would like to use the police power of government to enforce your beliefs, like disarming the law-abiding and forcing all of us to install mercury hazards in our homes.
Chip on August 25, 2010 at 8:19 PM
Yes, just as ethanol worked out so well!
Just to be clear – You don’t approve of laws which mandate light bulb use, lead bullets, and (to pick another winner!) ethanol? Or when you say you’re not out to “convert” anyone, is that because your smug in your knowledge that we won’t have a choice in the matter?
Buy Danish on August 25, 2010 at 8:19 PM
you’re smug not your…
Buy Danish on August 25, 2010 at 8:20 PM
We can safely assume, then, that you have little to no knowledge of how the composition of rounds affects their energy transference and deformity as they penetrate various types of matter. Specifically, how certain compounds affect the tendency of rounds to pass through tissue and bone, wood, plaster, and other materials. They determine their efficiency when being used, in particular, as hollow-point ammunition. Lead is an economically ideal substance, as well as ideal in malleability. This should be taken into consideration when considering self-defense preparations. Different types of ammunition are more appropriate for various environments.
In other words, bullets are fired at more than just deer. Fudds are not aware of this, and are hostile to any weapons other than grandpappy’s huntin’ rifle and double-barrel.
MadisonConservative on August 25, 2010 at 8:22 PM
I haven’t demanded anything. We can and should use our free will better than we have, long before we are forced to make inevitable changes by events.
AGW is used to advance the goal of redistributive change because those want such control see it as the biggest opportunity in our generation. I’m not saying AGW is not being used for the wrong purposes, just that because it is is not reason to dismiss it out of hand. Baby and bathwater thingy.
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 8:23 PM
Why don’t we make it even simpler: Do you have the right of self defense?
Chip on August 25, 2010 at 8:23 PM
It’s all about change…Agenda 21 thru ICLEI
jerrytbg on August 25, 2010 at 8:23 PM
He can’t. I doubt he has the background in metallurgy, ballistics, or actual hunting to do so. He does seem to have experience in yammering about Al Gore approved eco-topics, though. Kind of like listening to a modern-day Thoreau, complete with EPA-approved magic unicorn shells in his .410 over-and-under, bringing humane destruction to small game…
creekspecter on August 25, 2010 at 8:25 PM
we’re talking eco-marxism, in all its manifestations, you clowns.
rayra on August 25, 2010 at 8:27 PM
Yeah, well throwing out capitalism and free markets is the ultimate example.
Buy Danish on August 25, 2010 at 8:29 PM
So, it other words, we can do whatever we want, as long as it coincides with the oppressive edicts.
Is that the latest word you oppressives have come up with to replace Marxism, Statism,Collectivism,Socialism,Leninism,Stalinism…
Chip on August 25, 2010 at 8:30 PM
Tell us, genius, what % of GW do you believe humans are presently responsible for – 5%? 10% 37.9%? 85%? 100%? Can you prove what that % is beyond a reasonable doubt? Can you show that there is a consensus among ‘credible’ scientists what that % is?
One thing I’ve learned in life is that he more adamantly a person claims to speak for God, the less they should be listened to.
Bizarro No. 1 on August 25, 2010 at 8:31 PM
Yep, they can have my lead…when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
royzer on August 25, 2010 at 8:31 PM
What state do you live in.
The last time I checked that was a felony in about oh 30 states.
Liar.
MadDogF on August 25, 2010 at 8:32 PM
I Normally don’t do policing but…maybe they forgot the sarcasm button… maybe…
;)
jerrytbg on August 25, 2010 at 8:33 PM
The EPA is welcome to come along to the range tomorrow and witness some 45, 55, 210 and maybe some 240 grainers destroy the universe. Goodnight!
fourdeucer on August 25, 2010 at 8:35 PM
couple decades ago the very same people were telling us we were plowing into an ice age.
and speaking of ice, the deep core samples taken of ancient glaciers show that CO2 content was MUCH higher, and better yet, a trailing indicator of naturally climate variations.
Literally, CO2 comprises less than 4/100ths of 1% of our atmosphere. All oxygen-based life forms exhale it. All photosynthetic plant life depend on it. And ecomarxists call it a poison to be regualted, taxed, removed by any means. Thereby killing our economy and then the very planetary biosphere itself.
And ignorant / deliberate liars like trailboss would have us believe otherwise, and that puny man can effect such changes and should submit to the marxist yoke to achieve them.
rayra on August 25, 2010 at 8:35 PM
You can assume all you want Madison.
I guess I’m trying to understand why the strange tendency of a 5.56 FMJ to either pass cleanly through the body or to tumble and cause massive wound channels is part of a discussion on the 2nd Amendment, other than to say that by golly we must have an unlimited choice of ammunition with which to defend ourselves, for as Mao said, political power emanates from the barrel of a gun. Clearly we have no power without the choice of a both a 30 round clip and a 75 round drum magazine.
Are talking stopping-power as a 2nd Ammendment right? We have a Constitutional right to lead based semi-jacketed hollow-points in 9mm, 10mm, .357, .40 and .44, otherwise we will surely go the route of the French?
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 8:36 PM
and this administration is so atune to public opinion????
Put the bong down dude, let it slowly slide from your hands, we don’t what any of that juice in the carpet!
dmann on August 25, 2010 at 8:38 PM
Missed this – you’re wrong on all counts. Even if we were to eliminate all those very nice sources of energy we wouldn’t change the temperature of the planet.
Buy Danish on August 25, 2010 at 8:38 PM
Trailboss, aka Failboss, is another elitest faux “moderate” who thinks anyone to the right of him is insane!
Don’t bother with that douche folks. You’ll catch vaginitus from him.
Hard Right on August 25, 2010 at 8:40 PM
I have many faults chip, but your biggest is the cut-and-paste and pass over the key quotes that provide context and meaning fault. Common.
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 8:40 PM
It’s called efficiency gains, and conservation of energy resources. It’s only one of many other things we are going to have to change.
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 7:36 PM
And now he goes haring off into the nihilist ‘conservation’ meme, demanding the First world suicide in the name of zero-growth, zero invention, zero exploration and development of energy resources, zero nuclear plants, zero human life.
While his marxist buddies in europe ahve more nuke plants than anybody, safely operated, and even re-process teh ‘spent’ fuel rods to make new ones – something OUR EPA prevents. ‘Spent’ fuel rods are only depleted by a few percent. They are RECYCLED and re-sifted and the desireable isotopes of uranium reconstituted into ‘new’ rods. No ‘spent’ rods sitting at every poorly secured nuke plant, or destined for a 20yr boondoggle like Yucca mountain for millenial storage – which was blocked by the exo-marxists too.
rayra on August 25, 2010 at 8:41 PM
Great moniker, fits your thinking process.
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 8:42 PM
chickensh1t. Practically a bot.
Cheap gainsayer. Turnspeak practioner. Fraud.
rayra on August 25, 2010 at 8:43 PM
Didn’t claim it was legal, just what happened. Liar.
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 8:43 PM
That has something to do with sand and a moist, warm cavity correct?
Inanemergencydial on August 25, 2010 at 8:45 PM
Funny that you talk about red herrings while refusing to recognize the value of the Second Amendment past the notion of hunting. Also funny that you’ve avoided my question: what do you think the Second Amendment is for? Additionally unsurprising that you don’t know the difference between a clip and a magazine, but I expect no less from Fudds.
We have a responsibility to undermine efforts by anti-Second Amendment forces to whittle away at the ease of firearms ownership. Whether requiring trigger lock purchases, requiring biometric safeties in new firearms, ceasing the sale of expended military brass to ammo manufacturers, or this absurd move to make lead inaccessible as a raw material for ammo production, these are various moves disguised as public safety concerns, but in fact have the not unintentional side effect of making firearms and ammunition too expensive to own for more and more people. Considering that low-income people tend to be those with the most need to defend themselves, this is a travesty. Of course, hunters like you, who think firearms are mere toys for your amusement, couldn’t give two s**ts about weapons being used as self-defense tools. That’s what the cops are for, right?
MadisonConservative on August 25, 2010 at 8:45 PM
Rayra,
Failboss is an obvious troll, hypocrite, phony, drone, elitest, and hypocrite. In otherwords, typical leftist.
Hard Right on August 25, 2010 at 8:46 PM
Make a choice
Inanemergencydial on August 25, 2010 at 8:48 PM
Aww, the poor genius refuses to answer questions that would undermine its precious dogma, and instead resorts to ad hominem because it lacks the creativity to think of anything else to do. Surprising!!!!
Bizarro No. 1 on August 25, 2010 at 8:48 PM
That has something to do with sand and a moist, warm cavity correct?
Inanemergencydial
These should explain it.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103626
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTog_NtCEio
Hard Right on August 25, 2010 at 8:50 PM
This definition is incomplete. It fails to mention that most Fudds like trailboss are ignorant of firearms laws, and couldn’t care less, yet like to portray those who do know them as the extremists. They’re sort of like people who screech that they have free speech on private internet websites, yet will turn around and say that other types of speech should be outlawed because they disagree with it.
They’re exactly the kind of lazy, spoiled Americans that regularly get duped by the Democratic Party.
MadisonConservative on August 25, 2010 at 8:53 PM
Okay, then why do Statists have to continually change the name of their ideology?
Chip on August 25, 2010 at 8:56 PM
Puhleese. Unless you care for the technicality of it, use of ‘clip’ and magazine are and have been used interchangeably for decades.
So an M1 used an 8 round clip, and current issue M4′s use a 30 round magazine, so what. Talk about red herrings.
Yep, Madison, that’s what cops are for. That’s exactly why when I go into the backcountry or even just fishing up the local canyon I carry a loaded .357 stainless so’s that when the cops do show up I’m not the one dead. That’s why my old Browning Auto 5 stays on shelf in my bedroom, so’s when the cops show up I’m still breathing as are my wife and kids.
If you weren’t so full of your own self-righteous half-assed egomania, perhaps you’d ask before assuming that I fit in your pre-determined stereotypical liberal gun-hating freedom-taking ‘Elite Oppressor’ mold, just because I don’t espouse all of the idiot talking points of the far right loony fringe.
trailboss on August 25, 2010 at 9:02 PM
Why does the Obama EPA want to make it even more unaffordable for poor people to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights? After all, the poor are the most vulnerable to violent crime.
flyfisher on August 25, 2010 at 9:10 PM
Problem is, anyone can walk into a place that carries it, and buy a copy of Guns and Ammo or even Field and Stream. There should be some sort of minimum competency requirement before purchase. Sure, it might cut down on the number of trolls we bag, but it would be just that much more challenging.Going after ol’ trailboss is like going after prairie dogs. Satisfying plinking for a while, but ultimately an exercise in futility. I think we should let him go back to poaching loons from his mom’s basement.
creekspecter on August 25, 2010 at 9:18 PM
And you’re lecturing people about knowledge of AGW. Stunning.
I certainly hope you take into consideration the type of round you use. Since you seem happy-go-lucky about lead being removed, you’ll have to think carefully before firing rounds that could potentially pierce walls and harm your family. Lead rounds tend to deform and break up better than copper, and also deliver more energy into their targets, and as a result are a superior self-defense round, both in the home and outside. I guess that’s just crying and hand wringing, right?
Maybe if you didn’t espouse the idiot talking points of stereotypical liberal gun-hating statists, assumptions wouldn’t be made. So far, you’ve denigrated anyone who hunts with modern weaponry, anyone who considers the Second Amendment as something more than hunting rights, and anyone who thinks that possibly the government is interested in disarming the populace. Oh, and you’ve admitted ignorance both in firearms terminology, and laws on firearm usage. You’ve demonstrated nothing but contempt for people who respect firearms. Until you demonstrate otherwise, expect to be treated like the ignorant rube playing with your deer shootin’ toy that you are.
MadisonConservative on August 25, 2010 at 9:19 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of, “If the EPA wants my lead, I will let them have it.”
TugboatPhil on August 25, 2010 at 9:25 PM
Ok this is major attack on ammo #3
The first 2 tried to ban the resale of once fired brass to reloaders (major reloaders the guys who do millions at a time). The first time Montana Senators got it pulled. The second time, other Senators joined in.
This is try #3.
These people should be more worried about rope. Or pikes.
Vlad the Impaler Dinner Theatre?
orbitalair on August 25, 2010 at 9:34 PM
I wonder how many commenters have noted that Obama worshiper Dingy Harry Reid enjoys the confidence and potential endorsement of the NRA, due to his
great support ofsteering $60 million of taxpayer money to that organization?Good for you, NRA. You fuc*ing idiots.
Jaibones on August 25, 2010 at 9:50 PM
Trailboss, look up the Battle of Athens, TN. That is what the 2nd Amendment is truly for, that is why the Anti-Federalists demanded it.
Holger on August 25, 2010 at 10:00 PM
Whether you are trying to take away someone’s right to self defense through registration and confiscation or whether it’s though the banning of an essential element, the end result is the same.
Why do you Oppressives want to do that?
Chip on August 25, 2010 at 10:06 PM
No, but the sales restarted.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/casings.asp
Pythagoras on August 25, 2010 at 11:08 PM
And now they’re trying to shut them down again.
MadisonConservative on August 25, 2010 at 11:20 PM
Madison, I’ve done of the above, but you can’t accept it as you are so stuck on your one track thinking that evidence to the contrary makes no difference.
You wouldn’t know respect if it bit you in the ass, and earning your ‘respect’ is not high on my ‘Elite Overlord’ agenda, so you go right on living in your boxed in little world.
trailboss on August 26, 2010 at 12:23 AM
If you find that stunning, perhaps you should get out of your basement once in a while.
trailboss on August 26, 2010 at 12:25 AM
So, how long before “Cash for Cartridges” gets started?
Left Coast Right Mind on August 26, 2010 at 12:32 AM
Helpful hint…this ain’t respect:
Until you learn the meaning of the word, quit your innocent bunny act. You think a revolver and a shotgun make you any less of a Fudd, sputtering disdain for people who respect firearms as tools critical to American freedom? Joe Biden has plenty of weapons, as do plenty of other bourgeoisie elitists d**kheads like yourself. When you can come back and not dismiss people’s concerns about their rights with brainless, unjustifiably snide dismissal, then we can have a decent conversation. Instead, you come in, and insult anyone not thinking this is the best news all day. Go stick a fork in an outlet.
MadisonConservative on August 26, 2010 at 12:47 AM
Would this change benefit all of the world, most of the world, some of the world, or none of the world? More than 50% of the world, or less than 50% of the world?
Saltysam on August 26, 2010 at 2:01 AM
Trailboss
The EPA is now, more than ever, a political lever of power before it is anything else.
This, you defend. Sadly you, and many like you, think you know it all, and if everybody just did what you command, then the world would be a garden of Eden in climate stasis.
You talk about people in boxes in their little world.
Yet you talk about science like the adolescent that thinks sex is something young people discovered.
Any scientist worth his or her salt, will leave his politics out of it. AGW is a possibility. Any scientific investigation begins with this open minded premise. Proving its probability is a whole different animal, and skepticism plays the most fundamental role in distilling the precision and accuracy of a scientific fact.
To this date, there are far too many unsatisfied criteria to positively identify a condition, let alone a cause. Add to this that if the condition exists to any meaningful significance, we have yet to determine whether it is a bad thing. WE HAVE YET TO ESTABLISH THE SCIENTIFIC CRITERIA TO CLASSIFY NET BAD OUTCOMES!!!!
You believe you are operating on some plane of objectivity, which gives false safe harbor to the blind spot you have for your own prejudice.
If we are to remain free and risk averse beings, when a movement comes along that says we need heavy handed legal control over the private actions of people, you have the burden to prove your case without a shadow of a doubt.
What we have seen so far has been pathetic. Science, true science, is not political warfare. The behavior of the AGW crowd has been abhorrent. Why? Because they have failed to convince thinking people that the sky is falling. Whose fault is that?
Saltysam on August 26, 2010 at 2:54 AM
Remind me how many times health care legislation was declared dead? The only thing I do like about this administration is the way they pursue their ideological agenda. They pursue their goals regardless of the outcome, and some even make the case that loss of moderate democrats will simply purify and unify the remaining democratic legislators, so in other words their balls are too large for them to ever be the average timid Republican.
DFCtomm on August 26, 2010 at 4:08 AM
No, it’s because you “espouse” all of the idiot talking points of the far left loony fringe.
I’m curious – do you just volunteer to be the Hot Air “troll of the week”, or is there some kind of election I’ve not heard of? Maybe you draw straws? Or is it some kind of gay thing?
And the real question is – are you the winner or the loser?
Squiggy on August 26, 2010 at 6:06 AM
Another 100 year dream of the Progressives/Communists/Democrats…….Gun Control (by regulation and mandate).
Breaking News……..Swallowable food banned by FDA following studies that showed a liquid diet for Americans would save 4,000 choking deaths a year……
PappyD61 on August 26, 2010 at 7:14 AM
Breaking News………
The National Health and Nutrition Implements Commission announced that the U.S. Will ban by 2015 the sale or manufacture of all Knives, forks and spoons (following the results of studies that showed that small children can poke one another with them…….details to follow…..
PappyD61 on August 26, 2010 at 7:18 AM
Those Breaking News stories sound like Crazy talk?
I wish. Don’t underestimate the Hope and Change.
PappyD61 on August 26, 2010 at 7:20 AM
It is the animated diligence we demonstrate every time they float a proposal like this that keeps it that way. Just let the other side get the impression we’ve softened on any 2ND Amendment discipline and watch the fur fly.
hawkdriver on August 26, 2010 at 7:27 AM
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