Smackdown! Same-sex versus anchor baby

posted at 10:10 am on August 20, 2010 by J.E. Dyer

Left-wing indignations are on a collision course.  It’s not clear right now whether the smackdown will involve an actual court case featuring Same-Sex and Anchor Baby.  That denouement is for the hazy future.  But the ring is being set up, the challenges issued to the fighters, and the tickets being sold for an epic confrontation in the WCW of public opinion.  We’ll know after the Prop. 8 challenge wends its way to the Supreme Court (assuming it does) if … It’s ON.

The defense of Prop. 8 could have been argued on more than one premise.  One would have been the point I return to often:  that proclaiming a “right” to same-sex marriage is actually redefining marriage, and the Constitution doesn’t say anywhere that the people aren’t authorized to supervise and determine the outcome of that process.  (As originalists would point out, the 9th and 10th amendments explicitly reserve authority of exactly that sort to the states and the people.)

But the defense team chose instead to focus on the issue of traditional marriage as the optimum organization for child rearing.  This has been emotionally problematic for a lot of people who oppose redefining marriage, but who don’t harbor an animus against the individuals who are raising children in various situations other than traditional marriage.  What many of them see is that there is no value – but much harm – in the state intervening to strike attitudes about these things, in effect trying to shape social choices rather than merely recognize them.

Ed Morrissey wrote about this not long ago, positing that perhaps we should simply dispense with the state recognizing marriage.  But if we think that through, what we come up against is the underlying reason why the Prop. 8 defense team argued its case on the basis of child rearing.  Traditional male-female marriage is not just normal – it’s been the indisputable norm throughout history; no society has ever called same-sex unions “marriage” – it’s the only form of social connection that produces children and rears them to adulthood entirely without the policy intervention of the state.

Every other organization to rear children involves the state in one way or another.  Same-sex couples can’t conceive and bear their own children without opposite-sex cooperation.  The cases in which this assistance does not involve any practice regulated or overseen by the state are exceedingly rare.  Even when state-regulated services aren’t used up-front, lawsuits can still be brought if any one of the parties is unhappy with the outcome.  The state assumes a government interest, whether the issue is breach of contract or birth-parent rights.

Adoptions are regulated a priori by the state.  Divorce entails state intervention between parents and children whenever custody, visitation, and child support are at issue.  Single motherhood is a pattern that, regardless of income level, has encouraged the state to develop and enforce policies on child-rearing, whether the issue is day care, health insurance, or youth programs to counteract the ill effects of zero fatherhood.  Welfare mothers, of course, receive the ministrations of the state authorities on principle.

Only the traditional male-female family can produce its own children and rear them without recourse to state policies, or to the state guarantees that have been instituted to act as surrogates for the self-sustaining “nuclear family.”

Because this is human nature’s core grouping, and history has proven it to be the most economically powerful and flexible one, it has been natural for the state to recognize it over the centuries.  The state didn’t set it up; the state recognizes its prior claims.  One of its principal features, for the state’s purposes, is that it is the situation for children in which they are not assumed to need rescue or preemptive surveillance by the state.  The state’s presumption today is still in favor of the nuclear traditional family rearing its natural children.

The most basic thing this means is that it is assumed that married birth parents will keep and rear their own children.  There are no other choices on a state form that anyone’s going to ask married birth parents to check.  The social importance of birth parenthood within traditional marriage is still extremely powerful, when it comes to whether we agree the state has any right to intervene, or to sit around and think up what-if policies.

That is why there even is such a thing as an “anchor baby.”  Because we assume the prior, unalienable rights of birth parents, and we assume they trump other things, whether social or legal.  We do this for a few very basic reasons, premised on our most enduring social assumptions. But according to the plaintiffs against Prop. 8, the state should see no difference – none that affects its policies or society’s interests – between one form of parenthood versus another.

The effect of this will not be to privilege state-brokered parenthood to the same level as birth parenthood.  That’s not even possible.  It will instead be to subject birth parenthood to the same presumption of state authority as state-brokered parenthood, even within traditional marriages that are intact.  And if parental rights are conferred at the discretion of the state, rather than preexisting and binding the state, then in this smackdown, it’s Anchor Baby who will eventually be lying in an artistic heap on the mat, and Same-Sex who will be walking the victory lap with his arms aloft.

As always, women and minorities – and children – will be hardest hit.

Cross-posted at The Optimistic Conservative.

This post was promoted from GreenRoom to HotAir.com.
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A fascinatingly complex slippery slope it is.

Disturb the Universe on August 20, 2010 at 10:19 AM

Why’d they have to steal the flag of Cuzco, Peru?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Cuzco

anticucho on August 20, 2010 at 10:24 AM

Excellent post! And I’m glad to see this on the front page. And it’s an argument I hadn’t thought of before, but you are absolutely right: Male-female marriage is the only one that allows children to be raised without government involvement, which probably is one reason liberals hate it so much–they can’t force their way into your life. But they are sure trying!

Vanceone on August 20, 2010 at 10:25 AM

The Fred, who has one of the best twitter feeds out there IMHO, quipped last Tuesday about the lifting & subsequent reinstatement of the gay marriage ban pending appeals on Prop 8 in CA:

“This thing would’ve been settled by now if it banned illegal immigrant gay marriage.”

leilani on August 20, 2010 at 10:25 AM

anticucho on August 20, 2010 at 10:24 AM

That sucks.

Disturb the Universe on August 20, 2010 at 10:28 AM

Traditional male-female marriage is not just normal – it’s been the indisputable norm throughout history; no society has ever called same-sex unions “marriage” – it’s the only form of social connection that produces children and rears them to adulthood entirely without the policy intervention of the state.

Every other organization to rear children involves the state in one way or another. Same-sex couples can’t conceive and bear their own children without opposite-sex cooperation. The cases in which this assistance does not involve any practice regulated or overseen by the state are exceedingly rare. Even when state-regulated services aren’t used up-front, lawsuits can still be brought if any one of the parties is unhappy with the outcome. The state assumes a government interest, whether the issue is breach of contract or birth-parent rights.

And once gay adoption is common place, the Liberals can argue it was once thought that only heterosexual parents could be good parents and that was incorrect, may it also be that kids don’t need parents?

The end result is the collectivization of children.

Holger on August 20, 2010 at 10:33 AM

The end result is the collectivization of children.

Holger on August 20, 2010 at 10:33 AM

Ayn Rand’s Anthem comes to mind.

Disturb the Universe on August 20, 2010 at 10:37 AM

This issue is murky and confusing only to those who don’t acknowledge God in their thinking.

listens2glenn on August 20, 2010 at 10:45 AM

Now Holger, that’s a “Slippery Slope” argument. And we all know that predicting the future with respects to gay marriage is verboten–unless it’s all sunshine and puppies. It couldn’t POSSIBLY lead to any poor consequences, and any slippery slope argument is illogical and thus unworthy to even discuss, let alone refute! Why, next you’ll argue that reading Mein Kampf would have given you a clue to Hitler, or “Dreams of my Father” would have clued you in to Obama! Crazy talk, I tell you, Crazy talk!

And you are a bigot, right? Must be, for not seeing the collectivization of children as a good thing! The State as the parent! What’s not to like?

More seriously, it reminds me of Wall-E and the scene of the kids being taught by the robot: total mind control and brainwashing. It’s already going strong with our current education system. You know that the liberals are salivating at any more power they can have over our kids.

Vanceone on August 20, 2010 at 10:47 AM

More seriously, it reminds me of Wall-E and the scene of the kids being taught by the robot: total mind control and brainwashing.

Vanceone on August 20, 2010 at 10:47 AM

Right idea, wrong example. The ‘parents’ in Wall-E willingly handed their children over to Nan-E for a ‘teacher’ because they were lazy and stupid.

If the hard left gets their way, there will not BE any choice about who teaches Johnny and Jane. Public education will be a true monopoly.

Dark-Star on August 20, 2010 at 10:51 AM

slipping down the slope …

tarpon on August 20, 2010 at 10:54 AM

Vanceone on August 20, 2010 at 10:47 AM

I know it was sarcasm but I just gotta respond.

Tyranny is tyranny no matter how holy the motives.

Holger on August 20, 2010 at 11:01 AM

That is why there even is such a thing as an “anchor baby.”

Wrong. There was no such thing as instant citizenship for for illegals’ spawn until the 1920′s or so, and it is not standard for other countries. Since it is not universal but a quirk engendered by a note in a SCOTUS ruling, it cannot have universal application, which something needs to have if it is to be axiomatic about parenthood.

Plus your whole premise is kinda sketchy.

Akzed on August 20, 2010 at 11:01 AM

Yes there is a contradiction between defending state sponsorship of alternative lifestyles when it comes to gay marriage and attacking state subversion of traditional families when it comes to anchor babies’ citizenship, but I fail to see what the societal self-sufficiency of traditional marriage has to do with it. If you believe that all consensual unions deserve the public imprimatur it shouldn’t matter whether they have historically stood on their own. Anyway I don’t think people should be allowed to marry their cousins either.

Seth Halpern on August 20, 2010 at 11:03 AM

The underlying assumptions of this post seem seriously flawed. Healthy homosexual people are certainly capable of procreation. If one partner of a lesbian couple chooses to have sex with a man (or employ an empty beer bottle) in order to be impregnated, how is the state involved?

The idea that adoption can only happen under government regulation is also spurious. It’s a practice that likely dates back to before organized society. People can die before rearing their children to self-sufficiency. In the old days, when life-expectancy was around 30, this happened frequently enough. When one or both parents of a child die, a part of or the whole responsibility for its welfare falls to relatives, probably an uncle or an aunt. That’s simply a function of blood ties. Even the adoption of strangers’ children is nature enough by those who had none, for whatever reason, to ensure care in their old age.

year_of_the_dingo on August 20, 2010 at 11:05 AM

Very thought provoking article about how traditional marriage is the only institution that raises children without the interference of the state.

However, polygamous marriages, prior to the modern era, was also another type of marriage arrangement where children were raised without state intervention of bringing up children. Moreover, you could increase the size of your population without any government intervention either.

However, given that many polygamists milk the government for welfare money, this no longer remains true.

Ayn Rand’s Anthem comes to mind.

Disturb the Universe on August 20, 2010 at 10:37 AM

Great book. To anyone who hasn’t read it, pick it up. Its worth reading.

Conservative Samizdat on August 20, 2010 at 11:23 AM

A marriage is a union of One Man and One Woman.

If the State says that the Man and Woman part is wrong, it will say the One part is also wrong.

Poligamists say they harm no one. Why should a Person be denied the right to marry someone just because they are already married. “I can have two children, why can’t I have two wives.”

And if you disagre, then you are insulting Islamic teachings.

barnone on August 20, 2010 at 12:28 PM

I agree with the critics, adoption doesn’t necessarily have to be managed by the state. However, I also agree with Dyer’s broader point, which was that Prop 8′s defenders made a feeble defense and overlooked much more powerful ones — like the importance of the original definition of marriage. Were they forced down that road by the judge, or were they truly incompetent? Hopefully they’ll get a better defense in the appeal.

joe_doufu on August 20, 2010 at 1:35 PM

Liberals can argue it was once thought that only heterosexual parents could be good parents and that was incorrect, may it also be that kids don’t need parents?The end result is the collectivization of children.

Holger on August 20, 2010 at 10:33 AM

priceless :-) though when it comes to the Dems I wouldn’t rule out anything as ‘too extreme’…their collective derangement has deep roots and does not go away overnight…

jimver on August 20, 2010 at 1:59 PM

The underlying assumptions of this post seem seriously flawed. Healthy homosexual people are certainly capable of procreation. If one partner of a lesbian couple chooses to have sex with a man (or employ an empty beer bottle) in order to be impregnated, how is the state involved?

year_of_the_dingo on August 20, 2010 at 11:05 AM

Capable of procreation, yes. Capable, in fact, of entering into a normal marriage for the purpose of producing a child or children.

But assume for a moment that you have two lesbians in a civil union who want a child. So, to take the simplest possible case, they appeal to a friendly man to help them out. He has sex with the one who will be the mother, and she gets pregnant.

According to the laws as they exist here and now, the man who sired the child now has parental claims as a father. Ergo, the state will wind up involved, even if only to recognize him officially relinquishing those rights. Otherwise, according to our laws, he could change his mind and demand some portion of custody. Who would have to mediate? The government, of course.

The simple case just stopped being simple.

In fact, the slightly more complicated case of going through a sperm donor agency might wind up easier to deal with. At least, the sperm donor would have had less contact with the mother-to-be, and less interest in demanding parental rights.

Even there, I suspect there would be parental rights involved. And by bringing in a third-party agency, the government will necessarily be somewhat involved.

tom on August 20, 2010 at 2:20 PM

I really wish you would stop referring to this issue as “Proposition 8″.

It is no longer a proposition, and is not subject to recall or interpretation of the duly recorded results.

It is an amendment to the State Constitution of California, and, if the electorate wishes to amend the Constitution again, they may do so. Through the proper procedures.

Calling it ‘Prop 8′ gives the impression that this is a measure yet to be decided. It is not.

The voters have spoken. The losers want a ‘do-over’.

heldmyw on August 20, 2010 at 2:50 PM

Now the term “right” includes taking a religious term meaning man and woman, and eliminating the man or the woman.
What is the next “right?” Maybe they will try defining the word Catholic to mean pedophile in our justice system.

PrezHussein on August 20, 2010 at 3:20 PM

I just want to remind people that nuclear families are FOREVER, if you have a child that child will be with you forever. Your wife and husband will never leave you and wedded bliss will ensure the state never ask you about the care you treat your children with. Only anchor babies end up in foster care and orphanages. Only anchor babies ever end up drawing the state’s attention. NO ONE has the right to ask you about your children’s bruises, it’s your house and your castle, your family is your property no one will ever interfere. IN FACT the bible clearly says this in Matthew 33, Luke 6, and 1 & 2 Timothy. Trust me, this is exactly the truth.

@Ed what a damocles sword, honestly I can almost see where your going with this but in an attempt to make this in any way relevant to gay marriage you have to completely overlook the fact that gays often times have children in marriages that they eventually leave. Or the fact that adoption is a common occurrence in every family, every town and every state. I am only 35 and I have heard more reiterations of “WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN” than I could possibly recall and this is by far one of the most ridiculous and in a year that has been full of them. If you want to worry about something worry why you straights pretend that your gay children don’t count.

Zekecorlain on August 20, 2010 at 3:43 PM

@tom what if the lesbians just never tell the father that he had a child?

Zekecorlain on August 20, 2010 at 3:44 PM

like the importance of the original definition of marriage.

can someone find a marriage in the bible that in anyway resembles a modern marriage? Where the husband and wife get to freely choose each other? It didn’t happen, because we don’t have the same kind of marriage that they did.

Zekecorlain on August 20, 2010 at 3:49 PM

Bravo! Well said. :) :) :)

Theophile on August 20, 2010 at 6:00 PM

I really wish you would stop referring to this issue as “Proposition 8″.

It is no longer a proposition, and is not subject to recall or interpretation of the duly recorded results.

It is an amendment to the State Constitution of California, and, if the electorate wishes to amend the Constitution again, they may do so. Through the proper procedures.

Calling it ‘Prop 8′ gives the impression that this is a measure yet to be decided. It is not.

The voters have spoken. The losers want a ‘do-over’.

heldmyw on August 20, 2010 at 2:50 PM

Great point. In order to refer to it properly, do you know what Amendment number it is so that I can refer to it as “California Constitution Amendment #X”? Thanks in advance. :) :) :)

Theophile on August 20, 2010 at 6:02 PM

Great point. In order to refer to it properly, do you know what Amendment number it is so that I can refer to it as “California Constitution Amendment #X”? Thanks in advance. :) :) :)

Theophile on August 20, 2010 at 6:03 PM

like the importance of the original definition of marriage.

can someone find a marriage in the bible that in anyway resembles a modern marriage? Where the husband and wife get to freely choose each other? It didn’t happen, because we don’t have the same kind of marriage that they did.

Zekecorlain on August 20, 2010 at 3:49 PM

An arranged marriage is still a marriage. Arranged marriages were common even in this country until fairly recently. The Bible does not specifically detail how many marriages were wanted by both husband and wife, but parents generally want their children to be happy, so even arranged marriages were usually agreeable to both parties. And there are plenty of examples in the Bible where the man pursued a woman he wanted to marry rather than just settle for whatever his father said:

King David before he was king wanted to marry Michal, Saul’s daughter, who seems to have thought he was wonderful

Jacob worked seven years for Rachel. Yes, he had to agree to work all that time before Rachel’s father would agree, but then Laban was obviously a cheap so-and-so

Samson saw a woman of the Philistines and said to his father, “Get her for me to wife.” He worked through his father to accomplish the marriage, but he was clearly the one who wanted the marriage

Boaz and Ruth is another obvious example where it was a mutual arrangement.

We’re not told about the origins of most marriages in the Bible, but there’s no reason to just assume that parents normally ignored their children’s wishes before making lifetime arrangements for them.

Not that it even makes any difference, since none of these arranged marriages ever involved two men or two women.

tom on August 20, 2010 at 7:14 PM

The defense of Prop. 8 could have been argued on more than one premise. One would have been the point I return to often: that proclaiming a “right” to same-sex marriage is actually redefining marriage, and the Constitution doesn’t say anywhere that the people aren’t authorized to supervise and determine the outcome of that process. (As originalists would point out, the 9th and 10th amendments explicitly reserve authority of exactly that sort to the states and the people.)

But the defense team chose instead to focus on the issue of traditional marriage as the optimum organization for child rearing. This has been emotionally problematic for a lot of people who oppose redefining marriage, but who don’t harbor an animus against the individuals who are raising children in various situations other than traditional marriage. What many of them see is that there is no value – but much harm – in the state intervening to strike attitudes about these things, in effect trying to shape social choices rather than merely recognize them.

Like MANY a person on the Right, I was stymied that there was little to no defense of Prop. 8 when a defense was both appropriate and decent of the Attorney General, but since it’s California, and the AG is a Communist, the surprise ended there.

My only hopeful response was, “hey, perhaps there’s a plan to get this to the Supreme Court so THAT’s why it’s not being defended in any substantial fashion.”

I felt incredibly naive and still do as to that hopeful response because it appears there was never any credible plan to defend Prop. 8 or to see it through to a higher court (where it needs to go at this stage).

I still find Judge Walker’s bombastic lunacy of his “ruling” to be beyond, way beyond, all reason. Reading it again it reveals a very sick, angry mind bent on anti-social demands assuming some “lone justice” capability to lob-off voter significance or meaning.

Walker’s ruling is the judicial equivalent of very, very bad fiction.

Lourdes on August 20, 2010 at 7:16 PM

If the State says that the Man and Woman part is wrong, it will say the One part is also wrong.

Poligamists say they harm no one. Why should a Person be denied the right to marry someone just because they are already married. “I can have two children, why can’t I have two wives.”

And if you disagre, then you are insulting Islamic teachings.

barnone on August 20, 2010 at 12:28 PM

You know what Walker’s ruling is about, don’t you, and where he’s going with it?

The “man-boy association,” that’s where. Walker’s written a permission slip of slippery lunacy to reason through to “hey, it’s O.K.” whatever “it” might be: polygamy, pedophilia, whatever. He’s essentially said that “society” (who he associates with “heterosexuals” and “Christians”) don’t “have the right” to determine what coupling is and what marriage means, and that, therefore, it can and does mean anything anyone wants it to and agrees to participate in.

Walker seems quite insane to me after I read his ruling several times.

Lourdes on August 20, 2010 at 7:21 PM

According to the laws as they exist here and now, the man who sired the child now has parental claims as a father. Ergo, the state will wind up involved, even if only to recognize him officially relinquishing those rights. Otherwise, according to our laws, he could change his mind and demand some portion of custody. Who would have to mediate? The government, of course.

tom on August 20, 2010 at 2:20 PM

No, you’re presuming the existence of the state and laws enforced by the state. Legal claims exist only in so far there is an authority to enforce them. So your argument is circular.

The original post hinges upon the notion that homosexual couples cannot have children absence of state intervention. So let us assume an environment where there is no state. A lesbian couple living in such an environment wishes to have children. To this end, one or both these women choose to have sex with men, without demanding any sort of commitment in exchange for their “availability.” Knowing the nature of men, is there any reason to think they would fail? Or they could offer material goods in exchange for a man’s sperm. Is it likely that they would fail?

Procreation is most basic part of our existence. The notion that, absent of policies or intervention by the state, human beings would find the optimal way to procreate is extreme statism.

year_of_the_dingo on August 20, 2010 at 9:48 PM

@tom what if the lesbians just never tell the father that he had a child?

Zekecorlain on August 20, 2010 at 3:44 PM

I would assume if she’s using him as a sperm donor he’s figured out the birds and the bees by then, and has a reasonable enough grasp of time and the basic mechanics to understand what nine months mean. Otherwise she’s pick one dozy of a moron’s kid to have.

Of course, that doesn’t particularly mean he cares. There is a reason, after all, that the term cuckold is derived from cuckoo. Only difference is it’s the girlfriend stuck with some other guy’s kid.

Voyager on August 21, 2010 at 3:27 AM

Marriage is, was and still is for ‘child creation‘! Not child rearing. ‘Child creation’ by one man and one woman for most part of human history. ‘Child creation’ achieve by one sperm and one egg for the most part.

atemely on August 21, 2010 at 3:55 PM