Miss USA: I think they should move the Ground Zero mosque

posted at 5:06 pm on August 20, 2010 by Allahpundit

Red hot and an intolerant neo-fascist wingnut. What’s not to love?

The 24-year-old Rima Fakih, is the first Muslim winner of the Miss USA contest and is preparing for the Miss Universe Pageant, scheduled for Monday in Las Vegas.

“I totally agree with President Obama with the statement on Constitutional rights of freedom of religion,” Fakih told “Inside Edition” in an interview that will air tonight.

“I also agree that it shouldn’t be so close to the World Trade Center. We should be more concerned with the tragedy than religion.”

I’m pretty sure The One doesn’t agree with that latter point, but consider this evidence that I was wrong in what I said earlier. His lame hedge on the mosque is fooling some people after all! Nice work, champ.

I’m glad she weighed in because the clip below is just what the doctor ordered for a slow, dreary Friday afternoon. You’re welcome. On a serious note, and per the fact that she’s coming at this as both an American and a Muslim, read this NYT piece sampling Muslim opinion on the subject from around New York City. Dan Foster at NRO is struck by how reasonable most of the people interviewed sound, as am I, not because they’re Muslim but because, after a week of nails-on-the-chalkboard screeching from the left, any change in tone is refreshing. Same goes for Howard Dean, frankly, even if he is taking care to keep up his membership in the he-man wingnut-haters club.


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I’m Catholic, and you’re seriously comparing Catholics to Muslims? Let me guess, you’re one of those who thinks Islam is a “religion of peace.”

Gabe on August 21, 2010 at 12:20 AM

No, I’m comparing you to those ill-informed and close-minded blockheads and bigots who forget that Jesus said “I bring not peace but the sword.” Who forget that the Crusades were war made on Muslims by the Catholic Church and the ‘peace-loving’ West. Who forget that ‘peace-loving’ Protestants killed and raped my ancestors in Missouri and forced them to flee the country in fear. My 2nd great grandfather died in a spring snowstorm in Wyoming trying to find religious ‘freedom’ guaranteed by the Constitution but not practiced by the citizenry.

Is Christianity a religion of peace or of war? Does the Constitutional guarantee of freedom to practice one’s religion safely and without persecution mean anything?

Impugning the practices and beliefs of those you do not understand is nothing if not bigotry, nothing if not religious persecution.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 12:34 AM

Yet a measly fraction of the donations actually go to these children, and 79% go to “program activities.” It is a scam, and Debbie was correct. I can understand why she has little patience for those who support Sean Hannity and this scam. Debbie is a professional lawyer and doesn’t have a need to rely and asskiss Sean and other professional pundits to make a living.

Gabe on August 21, 2010 at 12:27 AM

OMFG YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

“Program activities” IS THE CATEGORY that defines the benefits to kids, etc. that they provide as an organization, including the scholarship fund, the troop appreciation activities, and the leadership academy.

You just said a “measly fraction”, yeah, sure, I guess 8/10 is a fraction.

Damn, people, WORDS learn to read WORDS and life is a LOT easier.

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 12:35 AM

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 12:31 AM

Sure, if you buy DS’s unsubstantiated allegation that “Program Activities” is what she thinks it is, and completely disregard the organization’s explanation of what it is.

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 12:35 AM

Tobi| 3.19.10 @ 4:10PM

It is very dubious and cunning explanation under the broad term of ” Program activities.”
None of Debbie’s accusations has been answered where she has quoted from IRS records which are indisputable. We should be truthful and weed out the shady characters operating as conservatives who scam hard working innocent Americans . There is no question that trust has been betrayed . If as appears laws have also been broken, these people need to spend their time in the jail

Do you even read the posts you link to? You know? The ones “proving” your point?

The above quote is from the site you linked to. And the quote was from someone there that you attributed to me, sissy.

BowHuntingTexas on August 21, 2010 at 12:35 AM

I’m sorry, I don’t undertand the allusion.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 12:28 AM

Just as well, it was a real knee-slapper, but vulgar.

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 12:37 AM

Yet a measly fraction of the donations actually go to these children, and 79% go to “program activities.” It is a scam, and Debbie was correct. I can understand why she has little patience for those who support Sean Hannity and this scam. Debbie is a professional lawyer and doesn’t have a need to rely and asskiss Sean and other professional pundits to make a living.

Gabe on August 21, 2010 at 12:27 AM

From the article I posted and you referenced:

The blog posting accuses Freedom Alliance of spending less than 20% of money raised on program activities. This is FALSE. Listed below are the amounts that Freedom Alliance spent for each of the past three years and the categories on which they were spent. The figures are taken from our Federal Form 990 which is filed with the Internal Revenue Service and posted on our web site and audited by an independent auditor using Generally Accepted Accounting Principles. This financial record not only meets, but exceeds standards of program efficiency set by most charity evaluators.

DS’ only argument is that she claims to know where the money under “Program Activities” goes. She doesn’t.

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 12:38 AM

The above quote is from the site you linked to. And the quote was from someone there that you attributed to me, sissy.

BowHuntingTexas on August 21, 2010 at 12:35 AM

Your post makes it look like it was yours, a common formatting error around here. And no one memorizes every page they read.

A simple correction would suffice, or, alternatively, you could keep dwelling on it. No preference here.

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 12:40 AM

Do you even read the posts you link to? You know? The ones “proving” your point?

BowHuntingTexas on August 21, 2010 at 12:35 AM

Yes. I don’t read the comments section. Stop trying to pass off a comment by one of your fellow cultists as some kind of evidence. All that person was doing was regurgitating DS’ unproven allegations.

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 12:40 AM

It has been *exciting* to have a visit from the Debbie Schlussel fan club, however.

Better than TRC or Crr6, anyway.

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 12:41 AM

Sure, if you buy DS’s unsubstantiated allegation that “Program Activities” is what she thinks it is, and completely disregard the organization’s explanation of what it is.

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 12:35 AM

Mad, I think it’s a valid question to ask why Hannity had to change the way he promotes the fundraisers (I heard them right before I stopped listening) and also why the charity’s rating went way down after the scam was exposed.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 12:43 AM

Damn, people, WORDS learn to read WORDS and life is a LOT easier.

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 12:35 AM

It’s not the reading of words that is the problem.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 12:44 AM

I do apologize for actually using the word “idiot” about Gabe. I mean, it was sincere, but not necessary. Poste in haste, etc.

I should have said “googly-woogly truffle-head” or something. Hey, I rushed, it happens. No cuddling.

Who doesn’t know what “program activities” are, anyway? Come on.

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 12:44 AM

It’s not the reading of words that is the problem.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 12:44 AM

Honestly, the problem is debateable, but if you come up with a solution, tell EVERYBODY as fast as you can!

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 12:46 AM

Mad, I think it’s a valid question to ask why Hannity had to change the way he promotes the fundraisers (I heard them right before I stopped listening) and also why the charity’s rating went way down after the scam was exposed.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 12:43 AM

TWEEET! Affirming the consequent, innuendo, 5-yard penalty, increased to 15 yards because the goalpost is not in the same place, still first down.

TWEEET!

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 12:48 AM

This is always how these things go. It’s like whack-a-mole. With real moles.

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 12:49 AM

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 12:41 AM

I know it’s easy to dismiss me as so but I’m a Conservative and not a Liberal troll.

You know, it would be easy for me to dismiss her as so many others have (even though I first heard of her on Stern years ago, I still heard what Conservative critics have said about her and visited her site to see if it was true). I ended up finding out a lot of what she said was valuable.

I also knew to watch out. I do recall years ago when Mike Gallagher had to apologize on the air for what he said about her after she took umbrage at what he said about that DB Bill Maher. I remember being shocked because MG is funny and a good conservative (if not a light weight talk-show host) and she took him to task for BM. I couldn’t believe it. So I am not a blind follower.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 12:50 AM

This is always how these things go. It’s like whack-a-mole. With real moles.

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 12:49 AM

Spot on. How to solve it? Don’t let the moles reproduce.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 12:50 AM

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 12:48 AM

Sorry. I don’t get this.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 12:52 AM

Mad, I think it’s a valid question to ask why Hannity had to change the way he promotes the fundraisers (I heard them right before I stopped listening) and also why the charity’s rating went way down after the scam was exposed.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 12:43 AM

Here’s another objective analysis. It addresses the dropped rating. It has to do with unsubstantiated smears spreading like wildfire on the internet, and debunking of those rumors crawling slower than a snail. Again, it comes down to DS simply claiming what she has no proof of.

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 12:53 AM

“Program activities” IS THE CATEGORY that defines the benefits to kids, etc. that they provide as an organization, including the scholarship fund, the troop appreciation activities, and the leadership academy.

You just said a “measly fraction”, yeah, sure, I guess 8/10 is a fraction.

Damn, people, WORDS learn to read WORDS and life is a LOT easier.

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 12:35 AM

You’re awfully gullible. “Program activities” are the activities to raise money, NOT the money that goes to the wounded warriors and the children of those killed in war, which were only 4 and 7 percent in 2006 and 2007 respectively.

Gabe on August 21, 2010 at 12:53 AM

MadisonConservative

You have your links and I have mine.

… and that’s assuming you don’t attribute any more quotes to me that aren’t mine.

… see post at

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 12:13 AM

sissy.

BowHuntingTexas on August 21, 2010 at 12:53 AM

sissy.

BowHuntingTexas on August 21, 2010 at 12:53 AM

Whatever you need to do to trick yourself into feeling tough.

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 12:54 AM

“Program activities” are the activities to raise money, NOT the money that goes to the wounded warriors and the children of those killed in war, which were only 4 and 7 percent in 2006 and 2007 respectively.

Gabe on August 21, 2010 at 12:53 AM

Prove. It. DS’ hunch is not proof.

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 12:55 AM

Prove. It. DS’ hunch is not proof.

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 12:55 AM

She’s looking at tax returns, sissy,

BowHuntingTexas on August 21, 2010 at 12:57 AM

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 12:48 AM

Sorry. I don’t get this.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 12:52 AM

“Affirming the consequent” in this case means you’re assuming that the charge you’re making is true and using its supposed consequences to prove other parts of your argument. It’s a logical fallacy.

As to reading Deb and trying to be skeptical, there is a reason why I don’t use Wikipedia as a source for anything controversial – I don’t trust them because they’re not reliable. I may occasionally read WND as entertainment (not for a while), but I don’t link to them because they go off the rails all the time.

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 12:57 AM

sissy.

BowHuntingTexas on August 21, 2010 at 12:53 AM

Uh oh! A rabid red-meat-proto-humanoid conservative, with a bow and arrow and everything.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 12:59 AM

posted at 5:06 pm on August 20, 2010 by Allahpundit

I’m glad she weighed in…

I wish you would, for once.

Ugly on August 21, 2010 at 1:00 AM

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 12:57 AM

Mero, Sean Hannity had to change the way he approaches these fundraisers on his show and the listeners at the time had no clue as to WHY. Even the Liberal dopes who hate him didn’t throw it in his face. PLUS Charity Navigator took stars (ratings) away. This cannot happen just by a baseless smear.

I would hope CN wouldn’t just take away any ratings without a thorough research…especially since I use them to research charities of interest.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 1:03 AM

You’re awfully gullible. “Program activities” are the activities to raise money, NOT the money that goes to the wounded warriors and the children of those killed in war, which were only 4 and 7 percent in 2006 and 2007 respectively.

Gabe on August 21, 2010 at 12:53 AM

Yup, everybody in the world but you and Debbie are evil serpents out to deceive you, or gullible victims of the serpents.

NO CULT HERE.

Yeah, the IRS is in on the conspiracy, too. All those other charities that use program activities to describe the, you know, activities they provide as part of their, you know, programs? CO-CONSPIRATORS.

I just picked a random BBB link on charities to see if they used the term the same way:

http://cleveland.bbb.org/bbb-serving-greater-cleveland-charity-review-program/

Search in the page for “program activities.”

Yup! The BBB of Cleveland is IN on the conspiracy!

WE’RE ALL OUT TO GET YOU!

Boo.

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 1:04 AM

P.S. Fundraising is under the “Fundraising” category – 18.5% in 2006 and 13.5% in 2007. Imagine that, they have a category for that.

But of course, that’s all part of the conspiracy.

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 1:05 AM

Prove. It. DS’ hunch is not proof.

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 12:55 AM

22b on the tax return for Freedom Alliance: http://www.debbieschlussel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/freedomalliancetaxes2006.pdf

4% of their budget was given to the children of troops slain in battle or severely wounded veterans.

Sorry, if Freedom Alliance is asking for donations for these children and wounded warriors, and I give $100 and only 4 dollars of it goes to what the charity is about, that is a scam.

Gabe on August 21, 2010 at 1:07 AM

Ok, I think we are going around in circles here.

I just ask all those curious to check it out and see for themselves. It will be interesting (and as the old Fat Albert cartoon used to say, you may even learn something before you’re done) and it’s so much more edifying to check out both sides for yourself. Liberals just take talking points for truth. Check it out and decide for yourself, that’s all I ask.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 1:11 AM

Gabe on August 20, 2010 at 5:48 PM

Gabe, whatever it is that is wrong with you is no small thing. You’re an idiot. You put the “nut” in wingnut and embarrass all rational thinking conservatives.

dakine on August 21, 2010 at 1:16 AM

It’s actually hard to find truly third-party information on FA’s charity rating – different groups rate very differently. The BBB complains that FA didn’t respond and so they can’t rate – but the BBB’s standards rate scholarship funds down because they don’t spend as much collected money RIGHT NOW as they could, so they don’t count it as Program Activities.

My wild-ass guess is that the one thing FA is definitely doing wrong is trying to hide the fact that their scholarship fund (probably) got whacked pretty hard in the current market – a problem a number of charities had.

If that’s so, being forthcoming would have been right.

Also, there are a crapload of organizations called “Freedom Alliance” out there, did you know that?

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 1:18 AM

dakine on August 21, 2010 at 1:16 AM

Dakine, he posted the tax return. That’s the bottom line. I know it’s boring, but look at it and see.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 1:18 AM

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 1:18 AM

Not to make this more complicated, but the way FA is structured makes it difficult to follow where all the Concert $$ is going. It’s not Acorn, but still, it can be illusive.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 1:20 AM

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 1:18 AM

Gob, gotta give you credit, at least you don’t scream at your tormentors. Good on ya.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 1:25 AM

I should have linked THIS in my above post.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 1:26 AM

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 1:25 AM

Danke, TB. I decided I don’t like the flaming. I just want the substance, even if those don’t agree with me think I’m a nutter.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 1:27 AM

Check it out and decide for yourself, that’s all I ask.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 1:11 AM

Same to you.

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 1:28 AM

Yeah, the IRS is in on the conspiracy, too. All those other charities that use program activities to describe the, you know, activities they provide as part of their, you know, programs?

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 1:04 AM

I worked a decade for a charity that used British English, so we had “programmes”. I’ve had a hell of a time getting that spelling out of my typing hands. We had two types of funding allocations: Admin funds and Programme funds. Yeah, programming is the term of art for the actual provision of services.

exception on August 21, 2010 at 1:28 AM

I may occasionally read WND as entertainment (not for a while), but I don’t link to them because they go off the rails all the time.

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 12:57 AM

Wing Nut Daily has never been on the rails. One or two commentators try to change the direction occasionally, but it’s a big ol runaway train, with too much steam and smoke and momentum.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 1:32 AM

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 1:28 AM

Mad, you showed me this way back when it was first posted. David Frum? Really, if I like what Schlussel says wouldn’t that make me really not find Frum credible? Didn’t he support Turkmanbama? I am willing to look at all rebuting posts but I saw this already and really, I just don’t take he and his Country Western partner Brooks seriously.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 1:33 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MluhagN3gIQ

at the 45 second mark she brags about describing herself to the judges as ghetto!!! Way to represent the USA by not only acting ghetto but bragging that she is ghetto. Also the only reason why she won was because Trump has major investments in the Arab world. It also bothers me that she spreads the falsehood that Islam is the Religion of Peace and her unwillingness not to denounce Hezbollah.

if you watched the Pageant, then you would know that the fix was in as she tripped, botched the question she was asked, and Miss Oklahoma was set up to lose.

She lacks class in my book acting ghetto and describing herself that way, can barely speak English, and is not that hot compared to the coeds of the SEC and the other 49 contestants. She can’t hold a candle to miss USA 2008(?) who goes to the University of Georgia in Athens– where i live and where i graduated from. Take away all the make up/fluff from Miss USA and she is not that hot at all. she is about as mature as a 14 year old as well.

Seriously the whole describing herself as ghetto to the judges of Miss Michigan really gets under my skin and makes me lose respect for her… not to mention she acts like a classless 14 year old.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MluhagN3gIQ

Watching_Cloward-Piven on August 21, 2010 at 1:35 AM

Wing Nut Daily has never been on the rails. One or two commentators try to change the direction occasionally, but it’s a big ol runaway train, with too much steam and smoke and momentum.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 1:32 AM

They actually had some good original reporting, but we’re talking the 90s here. Honestly I have only read the occasional link in the last several years, and about half are bonkers.

They were willing to take on columnists with unusual backgrounds outside journalism, which was healthy, but they also got on the Y2K bandwagon (full-bore survivalist) and apparently never got off. It has led to some seriously distorted POVs.

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 1:37 AM

Mad, you showed me this way back when it was first posted. David Frum? Really, if I like what Schlussel says wouldn’t that make me really not find Frum credible? Didn’t he support Turkmanbama? I am willing to look at all rebuting posts but I saw this already and really, I just don’t take he and his Country Western partner Brooks seriously.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 1:33 AM

Frum didn’t write the article. At least look before you put your foot in your mouth. Also, don’t try and argue credibility of others when you’re defending Debbie Schlussel.

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 1:38 AM

It has led to some seriously distorted POVs.

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 1:37 AM

Distorted is the operative word.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 1:38 AM

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 1:38 AM

It’s the Frum Forum. Saw it way back when you posted it for me in March. Sorry…I think there was this famous song from the 70′s called “We Just Disagree” Oooh, ooh, ooh, whoa-whoa-whoa”. (He’s a Rush fan, too!)

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 1:44 AM

It’s the Frum Forum. Saw it way back when you posted it for me in March. Sorry…I think there was this famous song from the 70’s called “We Just Disagree” Oooh, ooh, ooh, whoa-whoa-whoa”. (He’s a Rush fan, too!)

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 1:44 AM

Gob, you seem to have closed your mind to the influence of evidence not in agreement with your initial position. Perhaps you should read the FF piece, if only to be able to rebut it with something akin to reason. Try it out.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 1:51 AM

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 1:44 AM

It’s a clear cut analysis of their numbers, with information to back up their assertions. DS falls flat, because she makes no attempt to compare FA to other charities, and loads her conclusions with unsubstantiated allegations. You are trying to tell people not to demonize a source just because you don’t always agree with them. Yet you’re doing exactly that with FrumForum. Don’t you see that?

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 1:52 AM

And when I realized I’d have to read the 60-page IRS instructions for form 990, I decided to cook dinner.

Especially when someone who thinks that “Program Activities” are Fundraising is asking me to do all that homework.

Charity Navigator is annoying because they don’t list their reasoning, but their simplistic graphs don’t seem to represent the egregious claims made. It looks like most of the money in question is in the fund because the kids aren’t ready yet – I’d be more worried about the investments, as I said earlier.

Also, apparently CN issued its downgrade less than two days after CREW filed complaints – there does not appear to have been a substantive investigation on CN’s part, so apparently the accusation WAS enough to cause the downgrade.

Maybe it was a “coincidence.”

Merovign on August 21, 2010 at 1:52 AM

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 1:52 AM

Yes, I understand but I find her source more credible (in all matters) than a moderate Turkmanbama lover like Frum. I heard all those interviews of his in Novemeber 2008 and he’s just a clown with egg on his face IMHO. I understand that some think the same about DS.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 1:56 AM

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 1:56 AM

Gob, what does the word ‘credible’ mean to you?

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 1:58 AM

Yes, I understand but I find her source more credible (in all matters) than a moderate Turkmanbama lover like Frum. I heard all those interviews of his in Novemeber 2008 and he’s just a clown with egg on his face IMHO. I understand that some think the same about DS.

Gob on August 21, 2010 at 1:56 AM

Then arguing credibility is rather moot, wouldn’t you say? Why not just eliminate that common denominator and approach both of their articles with an objective viewpoint?

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 2:01 AM

For crying out loud….between Ms. Schlussel’s complete ignorance on what PROGRAM ACTIVITIES means and her unsubstantiated nutty smears on the right the left and the center and the multitude of people she has ticked off both on and offline you’d think people would learn she has at least STARTED to go off her rocker….

Guess what Gob and Gobe, I used to read Ms. Schlussel’s writings too, but I stopped doing so when she started exhibiting the symptoms of probable schizophrenia. (I.E. everyone is out to get me, only I know the truth despite what EVERYONE ELSE says)

Is she good on the Middle East and Islamic Jihad/Fundamentalism? Yes.
Is she nuttier than a $50 fruitcake? Well based on her history I’d also have to say yes.

SgtSVJones on August 21, 2010 at 2:04 AM

Why not just eliminate that common denominator and approach both of their articles with an objective viewpoint?

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 2:01 AM

You realize you are asking more of Gob’s obsolete intellectual equipment than it can give, don’t you? Don’t ask someone to move heaven and earth unless they can understand how to use the lever in the first place.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 2:06 AM

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 2:06 AM

He’s been quite civil in this discussion. Try responding in kind.

MadisonConservative on August 21, 2010 at 2:46 AM

I’m glad she weighed in because the clip below is just what the doctor ordered for a slow, dreary Friday afternoon. You’re welcome.

I’m sure they meant well, but the final product was pretty gaudy. I would have went with the most beautiful U.S. coin ever made, 1907 Double Eagle Saint-Gaudens

BDU-33 on August 21, 2010 at 3:52 AM

Bless you Miss Fakih!

But prepare to endure a “Carrie Prejean”style attack!

cableguy615 on August 21, 2010 at 6:19 AM

Stonings at Ground Zero — that’ll be the day, right?

Tav on August 21, 2010 at 3:25 AM

It sounds like as long as we can ogle at the likes of Rima Fakih, we’ll gladly welcome our new Islamist overlords.

And yes, I realize many of you are joking … though you’re not really.

Leftists learned decades ago that the only way they were going to succeed was to relabel and hide who they truly were; to push means to their ends with “war on poverty,” “social and economic injustice,” and “global warming.”

Islamists would be wise to do the same, and are. As shown in Europe, as shown here with one attractive female — you don’t have to blow up infidels to take over. They’ll just give it to you, if you play them right.

(Note: this is not conspiratorial nor suggesting she or a majority of American muslims see things this way; rather, I’m repeating objective facts of both the Islamification of Europe and the stated goals of Islam and a significant portion of its adherents).

jjraines on August 21, 2010 at 6:28 AM

Did anyone else catch that mock presidential seal that read “COMMANDER AND CHIEF”?

Yeesh.

flipflop on August 21, 2010 at 6:49 AM

And we are supposed to believe anything coming out of this radical terrorist lover’s mouth? She’s obviously working undercover for the Imam Rauf…..she should be stripped and deported!

greataunty on August 21, 2010 at 7:04 AM

No, I’m comparing you to those ill-informed and close-minded blockheads and bigots who forget that Jesus said “I bring not peace but the sword.” Who forget that the Crusades were war made on Muslims by the Catholic Church and the ‘peace-loving’ West. Who forget that ‘peace-loving’ Protestants killed and raped my ancestors in Missouri and forced them to flee the country in fear. My 2nd great grandfather died in a spring snowstorm in Wyoming trying to find religious ‘freedom’ guaranteed by the Constitution but not practiced by the citizenry.

Is Christianity a religion of peace or of war? Does the Constitutional guarantee of freedom to practice one’s religion safely and without persecution mean anything?

Impugning the practices and beliefs of those you do not understand is nothing if not bigotry, nothing if not religious persecution.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 12:34 AM

Nice try. The Muslims initiated what was known as the Crusades.

You can try to equate Christianity with Islam, but you will fail immensely. Perhaps you need a good look at the Sira, ahadith, Qur’an, and Qur’anic commentary for a more informed perspective.

blatantblue on August 21, 2010 at 9:21 AM

No, I’m comparing you to those ill-informed and close-minded blockheads and bigots who forget that Jesus said “I bring not peace but the sword.” Who forget that the Crusades were war made on Muslims by the Catholic Church and the ‘peace-loving’ West. Who forget that ‘peace-loving’ Protestants killed and raped my ancestors in Missouri and forced them to flee the country in fear. My 2nd great grandfather died in a spring snowstorm in Wyoming trying to find religious ‘freedom’ guaranteed by the Constitution but not practiced by the citizenry.

Is Christianity a religion of peace or of war? Does the Constitutional guarantee of freedom to practice one’s religion safely and without persecution mean anything?

Impugning the practices and beliefs of those you do not understand is nothing if not bigotry, nothing if not religious persecution.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 12:34 AM

you seem pretty clearly to be LDS…am i wrong? and don’t we normally consider ourselves christian? though i do agree with you about the injustices done to our people…and we don’t even ask for reparations either!!!

it sucks even worse when your last name is jewish…then everyone hates you!

dirksilver on August 21, 2010 at 9:44 AM

Nice try. The Muslims initiated what was known as the Crusades.

blatantblue on August 21, 2010 at 9:21 AM

No kidding! The Crusades took back what the Muslims took.

Gates of Vienna anyone?

darwin on August 21, 2010 at 9:52 AM

What is the deal with the Debbie Schlussel fan club and their regular visits lately?

Cindy Munford on August 21, 2010 at 10:14 AM

Can you imagine if she would’ve gone to ComicCon with the outfit? She would have cause a ruckus. It’s like Birdman’s GF or perhaps she’ll have a minor part at the new Avengers movie.
============================================================
OTOH, thanks for your thoughts and prayers! Update: Grandma (Great-Grandma of my kids) was transferred to Mr. PPF’s hospital, so now she’s close to home; had family sleep over at my house. She’s stable, but has a minor blood infection too so they need to find the cause. She DID have a heart attack but she can’t have a stent put in until the blood tests clear her up.

Heartbreaking to see grandma wired up to a T, with that beeping monitor I hate-especially when I went through the same crap with my TSS. Same infectologist/bacterio dr. expert that treated me is checking her out today, so I told Mr. PPF to say hi to her for me and thank her, since she’s one of several that teamed up to save my life (20% chance).

Anyhoo, along with Mr. PPF’s aunt, we made sure she ate, she has good color on her skin, and yesterday she sat for the first time, checked a mag. We chatted about my kids and her eyes brightened up; I wish we could sneak them in.

Hard for the staff to keep us around, she needs her rest but she’s hardly by herself; everybody is all over her, I kissed her goodbye a lot and she giggled which made my day. Party’s still a go, so my weekend is still busy but will make sure she feels the love, fetch her Kindle and as any old lady, I chuckled when she said, “so that means I’m not gonna be at the party?”

ProudPalinFan on August 21, 2010 at 11:28 AM

The intolerance and racist xenophobic vitriolic hatred that was unleashed by the so-called “religious neo-con grizzly moms” on the right when the first Muslim Ms. USA was crowned sickened me…oh wait that never happened…hmmm. You would think if America was full of anti-Islamic bigoted hicks the reaction to a Muslim Ms. USA would have been a wee bit stronger then the “Yeah she’s hot.”

ac1 on August 21, 2010 at 12:40 PM

Gates of Vienna anyone?

darwin on August 21, 2010 at 9:52 AM

Vienna had nothing to do with the Crusades starting. The Siege of Vienna was much later. The First Crusade’s start was due to Constantinople requesting help after Muslim conquest of much of the Byzantine Empire.

exception on August 21, 2010 at 12:41 PM

Nice try. The Muslims initiated what was known as the Crusades.

You can try to equate Christianity with Islam, but you will fail immensely. Perhaps you need a good look at the Sira, ahadith, Qur’an, and Qur’anic commentary for a more informed perspective.

blatantblue on August 21, 2010 at 9:21 AM

As you say, Nice Try. Try reading a little history.

The Crusades were a series of religiously sanctioned military campaigns waged by much of Western Christian Europe, particularly the Franks of France and the Holy Roman Empire. The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291. Other campaigns in Spain and Eastern Europe continued into the 15th century. The Crusades were fought mainly by Roman Catholic forces (taking place after the East-West Schism and mostly before the Protestant Reformation) against Muslims who had occupied the near east since the time of the Rashidun Caliphate, although campaigns were also waged against pagan Slavs, pagan Balts, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians, Old Prussians, and political enemies of the various popes.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 1:23 PM

As you say, Nice Try. Try reading a little history.

The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 1:23 PM

You should try reading more than just a little history, but if that’s too much you could at least see that what you quoted confirms what blatantblue wrote.

exception on August 21, 2010 at 1:40 PM

Oh, and while we are on the subject, how about:

1. the Medieval Inquisition (1184–1230s)
2. the Spanish Inquisition (1478–1834)
3. the Portuguese Inquisition (1536–1821)
4. the Roman Inquisition (1542 – c. 1860 )

Because of its objective — combating heresy — the Inquisition had jurisdiction only over baptised members of the Church (which, however, encompassed the vast majority of the population in Catholic countries). Secular courts could still try non-Christians for blasphemy.

Augustine had become convinced of the effectiveness of mild forms of persecution and developed a defence of their use. His authority on this question was undisputed for over a millennium in Western Christianity. Within this Augustinian consensus there was only disagreement about the extent to which Christians should persecute heretics. Augustine advocated fines, imprisonment, banishment and moderate floggings.

Early Christianity was a minority Religion in the Roman Empire and the early Christians were themselves persecuted during that time. After Constantine I converted to Christianity, it became the dominant religion in the Roman Empire. Already beginning under his reign, Christian heretics were persecuted; The most extreme case (as far as historians know) was the burning of Priscillian and six of his followers at the stake in 383. In the view of many historians, the Constantinian shift turned Christianity from a persecuted into a persecuting religion.

The French Wars of Religion (1562–98) is the name given to a period of civil infighting and military operations, primarily fought between French Catholics and Protestants (Huguenots)

* Martin Luther had written against persecution in the 1520s, and had demonstrated genuine sympathy towards the Jews in his earlier writings, especially in Das Jesus ein geborener Jude sei (That Jesus was born as a Jew) from 1523, but after 1525 his position hardened. In Wider die Sabbather an einen guten Freund (Against the Sabbather to a Good Friend), 1538, he still considered a conversion of the Jews to Christianity as possible,but in 1543 he published “On the Jews and their Lies,” a violent anti-semitic tract.

* John Calvin helped to secure the execution for heresy of Michael Servetus,although he unsuccessfully requested that he should be beheaded instead of being burned at the stake.

“The Troubles” refers to approximately three decades of violence between elements of Northern Ireland’s nationalist community (who mainly self-identified as Irish and/or Roman Catholic) and its unionist community (who mainly self-identified as British and/or Protestant). Use of the term “the Troubles” has been raised at Northern Ireland Assembly level, as some people considered this period of conflict to have been a “war”. The conflict was the result of discrimination against the Catholic/nationalist minority by the Protestant/unionist majority.

Typical or untypical of Christianity?

I know this is a long post, but these are only a very limited set of excerpts from the wonderfully peaceful history and practice of Christianity.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 1:50 PM

you could at least see that what you quoted confirms what blatantblue wrote.

exception on August 21, 2010 at 1:40 PM

Oh it does indeed, it confirms that The Crusades was a religious war, begun to regain control of southern and eastern Europe from the Caliphate, but then beyond the Catholic homeland to the Muslim homeland, that to control of parts of the Middle East.

Muslim history has many violent episodes, but so indeed does Christianity.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 1:58 PM

Final post on the subject. Food for thought if you dare move beyond your limited world view.

In contrast to the late antiquity, the execution of heretics was much more easily approved in the late Middle Ages, after the Christianization of Europe was largely completed. The first known case is the burning of fourteen people at Orléans in 1022. In the following centuries groups like the Bogomils, Waldensians, Cathars and Lollards were persecuted throughout Europe.

The Fourth Council of the Lateran (1215) codified the theory and practise of persecution. In its third canon, the council declared: “Secular authorities, whatever office they may hold, shall be admonished and induced and if necessary compelled by ecclesiastical censure, .. to take an oath that they will strive .. to exterminate in the territories subject to their jurisdiction all heretics pointed out by the Church.”

Saint Thomas Aquinas summed up the standard medieval position, when he declared that that obstinate heretics deserved “not only to be separated from the Church, but also to be eliminated from the world by death” [23]

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 2:15 PM

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 12:34 AM
trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 1:23 PM

Watch your step.If it weren’t for the beam in my own, I’d mention the mote in your eye.

You ought to study better the chronological political influences upon the followers of Jesus, eventually identified as Christians. None of that changes what Jesus taught. And the first and greatest commandment Jesus gave was to love God completely; then the second to love our neighbor as ourselves. ALL of the Gospels are consistent for specifically recounting that prime directive from Jesus talking publicly to everyone, not just to his disciples in private. Whatever single scripture recommends carrying a sword for Jesus, there’s Jesus’ warning to Peter to put it away before healing the injured Roman soldier’s ear.

maverick muse on August 21, 2010 at 2:24 PM

maverick muse on August 21, 2010 at 2:24 PM

No doubt, MM. However, it is the using of the violence of a limited number of religious extremists as an excuse to persecute what on the whole is a peaceful religion that I fight against, as well as the idea the “Christianity does not compare to Islam for violence.”

Well, it does, actually, and unfortunately, despite the demands and injunctions of the overall ‘gospel of peace.’

As far as I understand it, Islam is, overall, a religion of peaceful means, but used, as indeed is Christianity, as a reason for violence.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 2:47 PM

Liberal absolutism has infected this debate.

“If they want to put it 10 blocks away, that’s fine,” Mr. Akhtar said. “I believe in compromise, too.”

Why wouldn’t we expect that Muslims can be reasoned with? Can compromise? Why is it that what they want is the only way to do this?

Because liberal absolute idealism got involved. They have to win against the forces of darkness and regression. They can’t slide further down the slippery slope. Witness Olberwrought’s take: this could be the first step toward a German-like Holocaust. If this mosque is not built, the conservatives win, freedom of religion–representative of a constitutional right–is over, theocracy and dark ages reign. Historical regression and endless night. Cue fade.

Axeman on August 21, 2010 at 2:51 PM

Oh it does indeed, it confirms that The Crusades was a religious war, begun to regain control of southern and eastern Europe from the Caliphate,

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 1:58 PM

Specifically, the Byzantine Empire excluding areas near Constantinople. And that was next, which is why they asked for help from (Old) Rome, their religious rivals. No successful ongoing Muslim conququest, no First Crusade.

But Lutherans would have still burned witches, so you’ve got that going for you.

exception on August 21, 2010 at 3:20 PM

violence of a limited number of religious extremists
trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 2:47 PM

‘fraid you’re wrong about that hoss. Limited to hundreds of thousands perhaps.

Add up all the honor killings, genocide, massacres, beheadings, stonings, hangings of gays, homicide bombings, assassinations, sniper attacks and the like to all the protesters and demonstrators with AK’s, and RPGs, and all those waving photographs of those who commit atrocity in the name of Islam.

Oh and those guys who attacked us on September 11, 2001.

Limited only in the minds of the ignorant.

dogsoldier on August 21, 2010 at 3:52 PM

violence of a limited number of religious extremists
trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 2:47 PM

Is there an unlimited number of anyone?

I thought not.

Let’s not take chances.

NoDonkey on August 21, 2010 at 4:25 PM

As far as I understand it, Islam is, overall, a religion of peaceful means, but used, as indeed is Christianity, as a reason for violence.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 2:47 PM

There have never been any peaceful acts of Islam. Islam is a ideology dedicated to conquest and subjugation.

darwin on August 21, 2010 at 4:34 PM

Might I suggest that Atta’s Pimps, I mean Associated Press have a contest to re-name the Ground Zero mosque?

For starters, here’s some I haven’t seen before:

Bin Laden Center

Mohammed Atta Memorial

Mosque de Triomphe

Imam Obama Cultural Center

Trojan Horse Infidel Re-education Center

Sweet_Thang on August 20, 2010 at 12:19 PM
– “We Lied About Not Being the Ground Zero Mosque Mosque”

– “Taqqiya Carving Center”

– “Terrorism Pool and Boutique”

– “Blame America Center”

Lourdes on August 20, 2010 at 6:37 PM
“9th Century Landing-less Flight School and Imamitorium”

“Headless Infidel Riding Center and Falafel Factory”

“We Heart America Peace Park and Jihadi Command Center”

“Borat Insane Maobummer Library and I Scream Parlor”

“Twin Towers Were Once Here Mosque and Stoning Center”

Sweet_Thang on August 21, 2010 at 5:19 PM

“Christianity does not compare to Islam for violence.”

Well, it does, actually, and unfortunately, despite the demands and injunctions of the overall ‘gospel of peace.’

Actually, it doesn’t.

Unless you have some really broad, simple definition of “compare.”

For example, the Spanish Inquisition is actually grossly overexaggerated (http://biblia.com/christianity/spanish.htm) with the document deaths in the mid-thousands (3-5,000) over a 350 year span.

Now, “compare” that with 3000+ murdered in the name of Islam on ONE DAY on 9/11.

And you said this about the Crusades:

The Crusades were a series of religiously sanctioned military campaigns waged by much of Western Christian Europe, particularly the Franks of France and the Holy Roman Empire. The specific crusades to restore Christian control of the Holy Land were fought over a period of nearly 200 years, between 1095 and 1291.

What you conveniently avoided mentioning is that the Crusades were a RESPONSE to aggressive Islamic invasion.
Thus, truly, the Crusades were STARTED by Islam.

Look, no one is going to deny that there has been some great evil done in the name of Christianity over 2000 years.

But let’s be serious about how it “compares” to Islam.

Religious_Zealot on August 21, 2010 at 6:04 PM

How far from Ground Zero? Here is a spot on comment from an Althouse reader:

Lincolntf said…
How far from Ground Zero? Well, for starters how about a building that wasn’t hit by a chunk of the freakin’ jet? This mosque is being planned for WITHIN “Ground Zero”, not outside it.

8/21/10 10:29 AM

Mr. Joe on August 21, 2010 at 6:06 PM

Jesus said “I bring not peace but the sword

If you’re going to try to use that quote as some sort of pretext to violence, you probably shouldn’t be discussing the Bible, as that is NOT what that passage means at all. It’s quite clear from the surrounding text alone that Christ was saying that merely being a Christian would lead his disciples into violence from others against them. It’s a figure of speech, for the most part, not in any way a call to violence or a proscription to violence.

TheBlueSite on August 21, 2010 at 6:07 PM

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 2:47 PM

Well, to be fair, the creator of the religion and the author of its text was, as we know from history, a brutal mass murderer who often had people killed for simply disagreeing with him. I’d say ANY religion that has, at its core, those facts, could never possibly be considered peaceful in any manner whatsoever.

TheBlueSite on August 21, 2010 at 6:10 PM

If you’re going to try to use that quote as some sort of pretext to violence, you probably shouldn’t be discussing the Bible, as that is NOT what that passage means at all. It’s quite clear from the surrounding text alone that Christ was saying that merely being a Christian would lead his disciples into violence from others against them. It’s a figure of speech, for the most part, not in any way a call to violence or a proscription to violence.

TheBlueSite on August 21, 2010 at 6:07 PM

Thank you for responding to that, I had forgotten he said that.

It never ceases to amaze me how people who are bitterly opposed to Christianity and have never truly READ the Bible…

…then attempt to quote it as some expert in exegesis.

Yes, Christ was warning His disciples that there is a war going on in this world between good and evil.

However, when you read the rest of Christ’s teachings (including the ones about forgiveness and ‘turning the other cheek’)…

…one can only come to understand that Christians fight this battle not with bombs and bullets but with love and compassion.

And we seek not to inflict casualties but to welcome converts.

Religious_Zealot on August 21, 2010 at 6:14 PM

Taqiyya.

Levinite on August 21, 2010 at 6:16 PM

Impugning the practices and beliefs of those you do not understand is nothing if not bigotry, nothing if not religious persecution.

trailboss on August 21, 2010 at 12:34 AM

I’m not sure all of what you are talking about, maybe something else, but as to Islam, it is all too understandable to any who have taken much time at all to understand it and Islam is the persecutor, not the persecuted.

Tav on August 21, 2010 at 7:19 PM

Lighten up y’all:

Might I suggest that Atta’s Pimps, I mean Associated Press have a contest to re-name the Ground Zero mosque?

For starters, here’s some I haven’t seen before:

Bin Laden Center

Mohammed Atta Memorial

Mosque de Triomphe

Imam Obama Cultural Center

Trojan Horse Infidel Re-education Center

Sweet_Thang on August 20, 2010 at 12:19 PM
– “We Lied About Not Being the Ground Zero Mosque Mosque”

– “Taqqiya Carving Center”

– “Terrorism Pool and Boutique”

– “Blame America Center”

Lourdes on August 20, 2010 at 6:37 PM
“9th Century Landing-less Flight School and Imamitorium”

“Headless Infidel Riding Center and Falafel Factory”

“We Heart America Peace Park and Jihadi Command Center”

“Borat Insane Maobummer Library and I Scream Parlor”
“Twin Towers Were Once Here Mosque and Stoning Center”

“Religion of Peace Decapitation Armory and Mosque”

Sweet_Thang on August 21, 2010 at 9:32 PM

Jesus said “I bring not peace but the sword

If you’re going to try to use that quote as some sort of pretext to violence, you probably shouldn’t be discussing the Bible, as that is NOT what that passage means at all. It’s quite clear from the surrounding text alone that Christ was saying that merely being a Christian would lead his disciples into violence from others against them. It’s a figure of speech, for the most part, not in any way a call to violence or a proscription to violence.

TheBlueSite on August 21, 2010 at 6:07 PM

Trailboss is not going to be stopped believing what he wants to believe. Just another hypocrite.

CWforFreedom on August 21, 2010 at 9:46 PM

Since I do a lot of taxes, I thought I’d wade through the Freedom Alliance’s return and see who’s right.

After just a few pages, it’s obvious that “Program Activities” include things like the CEO’s salary. That said, he makes less than I do. Program activities include a LOT more money for printing and postage. The scholarships are not a huge portion of their total expenditures.

I can’t say, from the return, much about whether the other things they do are a good way to spend the money they raise. Putting on concerts can get very expensive and may not be unreasonable. If Sean claims that the lion’s share of the money goes SPECIFICALLY to the families of fallen soldiers, then he needs to stop.

Pythagoras on August 21, 2010 at 10:03 PM

She is ADORABLE!!!

MechEng5by5 on August 22, 2010 at 1:24 AM

You people who like this Miss Hezbiollah and her stand on this mosque you need to know the REAL STORY behind this mosque…IT’S ALL ABOUT GLOBALISM!

What do “global warming,” “global governance” and “sustainable development” have to do with the proposed “Ground Zero mosque?” One would think absolutely nothing; however investigation into the money, organizations and people behind the project has uncovered some revealing and disturbing connections. An extensive analysis of these findings provides the missing insight into the larger agenda, motives and modus operandi associated with what is now known as the Park51project. It also reveals the reasons behind the persistence of the insipid and insulting project and why it remains viable in the face of such visceral opposition.

Those who oppose the construction of an Islamic center in close proximity to Ground Zero are legitimately upset by the hubris of Imam Feisal Abdul-Rauf and his associates, and his lack of class and sensitivity exhibited by their insistence to continue forward despite the plaintive objections of those most affected and victimized by the terrorist attacks. Some in opposition appear perplexed that the individuals behind the project have not relented or even acquiesced to open dialogue about moving the Islamic center due to the volatility created by the project. To date, overtures made by the governor of New York as well as members of the clergy have been quietly rebuffed by the people behind the project. If building bridges and fostering goodwill is, in fact, their objective, it is reasonable to question their reluctance and outright refusal to mitigate any ill will by reconsidering the location of the Islamic center. For the purpose of a comprehensive investigation, it is not only reasonable, it is imperative.

And also supporting this mosque and the imam…THE GLOBAL ELITE!

The Imam of the now infamous “ground zero mosque” is a member of the ultra elitist Council On Foreign Relations and receives financial backing from powerful globalist sources including the Rockefellers, the Carnegie Corporation and the Ford Foundation.

The proposed mosque, to be known as Cordoba House is the project of the Cordoba Initiative, an organisation founded by ‘Imam’ Feisal Abdul Rauf (pictured above), who, in addition to being a member of the World Economic Forum’s Council of 100, is an active member of the Council on Foreign Relations’ Religious Advisory Committee.

The Cordoba Initiative’s website cites “Christian support for the Cordoba House” in the form of Christian publication, “Sojourners”, which is owned by evangelical Christian writer and political activist Jim Wallis, also coincidentally a sitting member of the CFR’s Religious Advisory Committee.

The CFR…is populated exclusively by major players with the biggest corporations, banks and defense contractors in the world – all of whom are making vast profits and securing more power from continued global conflict. The CFR also exerts far reaching influence over the U.S. government.

AND THERE’S EVEN MORE!

Feisal Abdul Rauf also heads up the American Society for Muslim Advancement (ASMA) which enjoys a partnership with the Cordoba Initiative and provided $100 million to secure the site close to ground zero for the mosque to be built.

That $100 million came directly from the back pockets of ASMA’s financial backers.

According to ASMA’s website they include the Carnegie Corporation of New York, the Ford Foundation, Rockefeller Brothers, Rockefeller Philanthropy, and the Rockefeller Brothers Fund – essentially the tip of the pyramid of the international globalist elite.

In other words, the NEW WORLD ORDER is really behind this building!

BobAnthony on August 22, 2010 at 7:19 AM

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