More Hitchens: Sure, there might be a higher power

posted at 7:20 pm on August 7, 2010 by Allahpundit

We’ve seen a lot of him on the site lately, I know, but it’s a slow summer Saturday news night and, let’s face it, the supply of video clips of Hitch holding forth on whatever topic is likely to be exceedingly finite. Enjoy him while you can. If you’re bored with the talk of death and prayer, no problem: Skip the first clip below and settle in for an insightful chat between him, Jeffrey Goldberg, and Martin Amis on Jewish culture and the politics of anti-semitism. Well worth your time.

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Omg. He looks so ragged :/

blatantblue on August 7, 2010 at 7:27 PM

I think that all of those involved here (links above) ought to consider that God does, indeed, judge all of us…aas INDIVIDUALS.

The Bible (Old AND New Testament) both explain this time and time again, and explain why and upon what we are judged.

I doubt when I stand before Him He’ll award me any A+’s simply because I claim to be Norse or Anglo-Saxon or whatever else an ethnicity…

The point is that individuals are judged by God. Based d upon God’s conditions and standards, not upon Man’s.

He explains this in the Bible. Abundantly.

Hitchens and others like him spend so much energy needlessly on trying to fit God into Man’s little box (or circle, whatever), yet, we are told time and time again in the Bible that that is not what God is about, nor what He wants of us.

Lourdes on August 7, 2010 at 7:29 PM

Is Goldberg the worst interviewer ever? He seems befuddled at everything Hitchens says.

lorien1973 on August 7, 2010 at 7:29 PM

I wouldn’t wish Hitchens’ malady upon my worst enemy.

Having said that, it certainly is intriguing to listen to an atheist who is facing death straight in the face examining the possibility that The Almighty might actually exist – and that he may be meeting him a lot earlier than he might have imagined.

We are assembled out of random stardust, but for a brief moment in time conscious of our surrounding, yet present at the dawn of the universe and similarly at it demise. Atoms scrambled and reassembled, over and over, endlessly…

God, on the other hand…

turfmann on August 7, 2010 at 7:29 PM

Omg. He looks so ragged :/

blatantblue on August 7, 2010 at 7:27 PM

Yes, yes he does. And it gives me no joy, none at all, to see him so…

:/

Lourdes on August 7, 2010 at 7:29 PM

Sad. So sad.

petefrt on August 7, 2010 at 7:38 PM

Regardless of his beliefs, he and his family have been in a lot of peoples’ prayers since they first heard of his diagnosis. I am sure that he and his brother have had lots of conversations about this issue.

And God knows who Christopher Hitchens is, and He loves him, whether Mr. Hitchens believes in Him or not. That should give us all comfort. I pray that he does not suffer too much and that he is able to find peace; he certainly seems to be a very honorable man.

TeresainFortWorth on August 7, 2010 at 7:39 PM

Is Goldberg the worst interviewer ever? He seems befuddled at everything Hitchens says.

lorien1973 on August 7, 2010 at 7:29 PM

Yes he is. And his asinine questions about Hitch finding Jesus are just plain ignorant.

iam7545 on August 7, 2010 at 7:40 PM

The day can’t come soon enough when Bones McCoy looks back on our primitive 21st century therapies and says, “Chemotherapy???? Barbaric.”

Purple Fury on August 7, 2010 at 7:41 PM

higher power

What is “high”? What is power?

Kralizec on August 7, 2010 at 7:43 PM

Our mortality is such a compelling thing. It cuts right to the essence of our humanity, and forces us to seek reasons for our existence, and the end of it.

Hitchens is facing the end of his existence, and while he clings to his well-reasoned and often rehearsed humanism, his mortality is causing him to doubt.

He admits that before his end, he may indeed proclaim a newfound belief in God, yet says that it will not be he himself issuing the proclamation, but some “other” self.

He is wondering.

IronDioPriest on August 7, 2010 at 7:44 PM

It has been obvious for some time that Hitch is a doubting Thomas.

He speaks and writes about the subject too often.

It wouldn’t be in the mind of a true Atheist.

OldEnglish on August 7, 2010 at 7:45 PM

It’s hard to see Hitchens looking so ill. I’m glad to hear my prayers do not offend, as I’ve been talking to God on his behalf since hearing about the diagnosis.

Slublog on August 7, 2010 at 7:53 PM

OldEnglish

I have a friend who always does the same. I can’t help but think that just mayb my friend doesn’t want god to exist. So he can’t pay for his past.

blatantblue on August 7, 2010 at 7:54 PM

He admits that before his end, he may indeed proclaim a newfound belief in God, yet says that it will not be he himself issuing the proclamation, but some “other” self.

I didn’t hear anything suggesting that. As a matter of fact he told Anderson Cooper and Goldberg that if they read anything suggesting he was praying or seeking Jesus it would be a lie.

He seems very resolute in his atheism.

iam7545 on August 7, 2010 at 7:54 PM

It has been obvious for some time that Hitch is a doubting Thomas.

He speaks and writes about the subject too often.

It wouldn’t be in the mind of a true Atheist.

OldEnglish on August 7, 2010 at 7:45 PM

Hitchens claims to be an anti-theist not atheist.
An atheist emphatically stating what he has no proof of is on par with a religiously inclined person doing the same.

whiskeytango on August 7, 2010 at 7:57 PM

We can pray that he does come to faith prior to his death, perhaps faced with his mortality, he will not resist the Spirit.

AZfederalist on August 7, 2010 at 7:58 PM

The age of enlightenment begot the guillotine and eventually wwI and wwII; the age of true love begot abortion; the age of reason begot the mass genocides of Armenia, Jews, Cambodia and Rwanda. Prediction – the age of atheism begets wwIII, test tube babies used for spare parts, science worshipped regardless of the facts, the ultimate destruction of civilization. Finally ‘ we’ll’ start again….Hitchens is just a small part of the times we live in. I’ll continue to pray for him but the age he represents has set a course of destruction like we have never seen before in history. Congratulations Hitchens, you win.

Fuquay Steve on August 7, 2010 at 7:59 PM

Enjoy him while you can.
===============================

So true AllahPundit,thanks for putting them up,
we are here for a good time,but not a long time:)
======================================================

Trooper – Here For A Good Time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHnl7jNK6us

============
============

Live is Life – Opus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGikhmjTSZI

===============
===============

Moving in Stereo The Cars

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRED28cY-ws

=============
=============

The Cars – Good Times Roll

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QeJDiDvTEE

canopfor on August 7, 2010 at 7:59 PM

God bless him!

American Elephant on August 7, 2010 at 8:03 PM

The powers that be should not spend a single dime on AIDS research, since AIDS is an easily preventable condition. Curing Cancer should be the worlds highest priority.

Old eagle on August 7, 2010 at 8:08 PM

IMHO, a fair percentage of people who are antheist (functioning without religion) aren’t harboring the idea that a higher power can’t exist rather instead they don’t buy into the premise or the offering of people who do believe out of faith.

Personally I’m for whatever helps people get through.

Speakup on August 7, 2010 at 8:10 PM

Whether you agree with CH or not, and I’ve done my share of both over the years, I’m mourning the imminent loss of a hugely talented individual. CH, keep writing! There’s still time…

joejm65 on August 7, 2010 at 8:11 PM

All an atheist is, is a someone who believes there is a God, but loves his sin too much to repent.

Kjeil on August 7, 2010 at 8:12 PM

poor guy.

moonbatkiller on August 7, 2010 at 8:18 PM

I didn’t hear anything suggesting that. As a matter of fact he told Anderson Cooper and Goldberg that if they read anything suggesting he was praying or seeking Jesus it would be a lie.

He seems very resolute in his atheism.

iam7545 on August 7, 2010 at 7:54 PM

He was very clear in the first video that it would be due to either the disease or treatment affecting his brain.

I didn’t hear atheism, so much as I heard him say that there is no person with information than he has to answer that question. That is a ridiculous position to take, and I lost interest in watching much more of him.

pedestrian on August 7, 2010 at 8:18 PM

Watching this brings back too many memories of my sister, who lost her battle with cervical cancer some 18 years ago…

… She was 32 at the time.

I wish back then, I was able to get on video more of her words, wisdom, and laughter to share with little 7%, who never new his Aunt…

… In a way, with these videos, Hitch’s words, and writings, will survive him and may bring continued comfort to his family after he is gone.

For myself, there are only family photos and a few appearances on some old VHS tapes of my sister…

… Until a family friend sent me this.

Seven Percent Solution on August 7, 2010 at 8:30 PM

whiskeytango on August 7, 2010 at 7:57 PM

That makes more sense, due to his many rants. Blatantblue, above speaks of a similar situation.

As to your other point: A religious person operates through faith. I would argue that faith/belief is not the same as self-evident reason. However, we could continue arguing for eternity – without resolution.

OldEnglish on August 7, 2010 at 8:30 PM

Kjeil on August 7, 2010 at 8:12 PM

FAIL!

That would be an anti-theist.

OldEnglish on August 7, 2010 at 8:35 PM

Only listened to the first vid, but he doesn’t answer Goldberg’s question (which came only after Amis’ interjection of the agnostic’s position) if proclaiming there isn’t a God might not be as blindly presumptuous as proclaiming there is one. He skirts around that sticky wicket altogether, the coward.;-)

We’ll cut you some slack today because you’re sick, but you gotta do better than that, Mr. Hitchens.

Current tally:

Amis +1
Hichens 0.

leilani on August 7, 2010 at 8:36 PM

Belief can believe anything.

That is the danger of credulity.

It can be in Quetzecoatl, Mao or Gaia.

Healthy skepticism balances all claims and looks for the safest, sanest future.

Without Science, Hitchens would already be dead.

As would the majority of humanity now alive… from disease and vicious and paranoid superstitions.

Hitchen’s bile and lack of prudent living have come back to bite him.

I wish him a more cheerful outcome than his own rancorous nature has wished on many.

profitsbeard on August 7, 2010 at 8:39 PM

Please stop posting that picture of Hitchens.

misterpeasea on August 7, 2010 at 8:40 PM

All a douchebag is, is…

Kjeil on August 7, 2010 at 8:12 PM

MadisonConservative on August 7, 2010 at 8:41 PM

I swera there ain’t no heaven
But pray there ain’t no hell
But I’ll never know by livin’
Only my dyin’ will tell

thomasaur on August 7, 2010 at 8:42 PM

Until a family friend sent me >this.

Seven Percent Solution on August 7, 2010 at 8:30 PM

Thanks for that link 7%.

As a 12 string player myself, a fine tune and some nice picking.

Sorry for your loss.

But little 7% will cherish this melody and memory, undoubtedly.

profitsbeard on August 7, 2010 at 8:48 PM

Maybe he caught the Flew.

abobo on August 7, 2010 at 8:48 PM

… Until a family friend sent me this.

Seven Percent Solution on August 7, 2010 at 8:30 PM

Very nice, 7%.

Alana on August 7, 2010 at 8:51 PM

I’ll pray for Hitchen and his immortal soul, but if ever hear Bob Dylan in Heaven I will ask for my deposit back.

Ugly on August 7, 2010 at 8:54 PM

I wish back then, I was able to get on video more of her words, wisdom, and laughter to share with little 7%, who never new his Aunt…

… In a way, with these videos, Hitch’s words, and writings, will survive him and may bring continued comfort to his family after he is gone.

For myself, there are only family photos and a few appearances on some old VHS tapes of my sister…

… Until a family friend sent me this.

Seven Percent Solution on August 7, 2010 at 8:30 PM

Seven Percent Solution:

Seven%,thank-you so much for sharing,life is so short,
and I can only imagine you loss of your sister,I lost
my grandfather to lung cancer,he was 6′ 2″ at 200,and
after 6 months,he was around 110 lbs,and he basically
raised me,anywho,I essential was with him,and was with
my grandmother,the night he passed.I still miss him:)

canopfor on August 7, 2010 at 8:54 PM

Frankly, I could care less what his beliefs are, they are his own and he’s entitled to them. I do care that he finds himself in this position and suffers with physical and emotional pain. His writings have always been a pleasure to read and I hope there will be many more to come and that somehow he can beat the unfortunate hand he has been dealt. I will say God’s speed, no matter what he believes, and I will say prayers.

scalleywag on August 7, 2010 at 9:06 PM

Seven Percent Solution on August 7, 2010 at 8:30 PM

Thanks for sharing.Lovely.

redslippers on August 7, 2010 at 9:18 PM

BTW AP… ‘Uncertainty’ is what us lowly mortals strive to overcome in our daily prayers.

Ugly on August 7, 2010 at 9:22 PM

my prayer: hitchenS lives long enough to get bar mitvahed!

reliapundit on August 7, 2010 at 9:23 PM

Seven Percent Solution on August 7, 2010 at 8:30 PM

That was beautiful, what a great find and friend.

Cindy Munford on August 7, 2010 at 9:24 PM

He’s starting to look like some sort of muppet alien.

rayra on August 7, 2010 at 9:27 PM

rayra on August 7, 2010 at 9:27 PM

What a classy thing to say.

scalleywag on August 7, 2010 at 9:35 PM

profitsbeard on August 7, 2010 at 8:48 PM

Alana on August 7, 2010 at 8:51 PM

canopfor on August 7, 2010 at 8:54 PM

Cindy Munford on August 7, 2010 at 9:24 PM

Thank you, and to everyone who clicks on the link and enjoys the sound of my late sister’s voice…

… it means the world to me.

+7%…!

(I will resume my snarky comments at a more appropriate time :O) )

Seven Percent Solution on August 7, 2010 at 9:36 PM

rayra on August 7, 2010 at 9:27 PM

A-hole.

IrishEi on August 7, 2010 at 9:36 PM

… Until a family friend sent me this.

Seven Percent Solution on August 7, 2010 at 8:30 PM

That was so nice! Thanks for sharing it with the rest of us.

IrishEi on August 7, 2010 at 9:38 PM

How odd that, to atheists, faith in God is a weakness, but the certainty born of that faith is something they yearn for and can never have until they surrender their doubt and yield to faith.

Extrafishy on August 7, 2010 at 9:42 PM

How odd that, to atheists, faith in God is a weakness, but the certainty born of that faith is something they yearn for and can never have until they surrender their doubt and yield to faith.

Extrafishy on August 7, 2010 at 9:42 PM

Thank you.

Ugly on August 7, 2010 at 9:58 PM

There are no atheists in foxholes or hospices.

AaronGuzman on August 7, 2010 at 10:04 PM

It’s the hair loss. Reminds me of Neelix.
http://www.thestoryboard.co.uk/voyager/images/galley_neelix.jpg

And I’m not going to mewl about the departure of a rabid atheist / marxist, IrishEi. The only thing the man was ever right about in his life was his opposition to the resurgent Jihad, and that was only because they threatened his way of life as well.

And once again, the editors of “one of the largest right-of-center blogs” have set out a putrid banquet of liberalism, political correctness and self-serving red meat.
Hitchens and slanders of Beck, Palin, Bush are NOT the proper fare of a ‘right of center’ blog. Leastways not without a similar serving of bile about the icons of the Left. But here’s one now, Hitchens, being given a hero’s funeral/stage/eulogy.

/’Friends, Womans, bloggers, lend me your ears;
I come to bury Caesar Hitchens, not to praise him;
The evil that men do lives after them,
The good is oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Hitchens. The noble Brutus allahpundit
Hath told you Hitchens was ambitious:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault;
And grievously hath Hitchens answer’d it.
Here, under leave of allahpundit and the rest, —
For allahpundit is an honorable man;
So are they all, all honorable men, —
Come I to speak in Hitchens’s funeral.
He was my friend, faithful and just to me enemy, feckless and cruel to my beliefs:
But allahpundit says he was ambitious;
And allahpundit is an honorable man.

rayra on August 7, 2010 at 10:09 PM

And God knows who Christopher Hitchens is, and He loves him, whether Mr. Hitchens believes in Him or not. That should give us all comfort. I pray that he does not suffer too much and that he is able to find peace; he certainly seems to be a very honorable man.

TeresainFortWorth on August 7, 2010 at 7:39 PM

That’s beautiful and so true to my own belief, TFW. If there is a God anything like what Christians I admire say there is, (and I feel I don’t have enough knowledge to know one way or the other) then “God knows who Christopher Hitchens is, and He loves him, whether Mr. Hitchens believes in Him or not.”

That’s exactly right. The God I’d like to believe in is loving, not petty.

petefrt on August 7, 2010 at 10:15 PM

I can only access the first video in both FF and IE. Is there an alternative source?

Spirit of 1776 on August 7, 2010 at 10:18 PM

While I find it heartening (and unsurprising) that so many believers are praying for Christopher Hitchens, as a long-time admirer of the man’s work, an atheist, and yes, a conservative, this notion of hoping he finds faith in his final hours, however well-intended, is equal parts misplaced piety and utterly cruel.

It wouldn’t occur to me to hope that a believer, in their final moments, realize their views are “wrong” and go back on how they lived their lives. What’s even more disturbing – and Hitch addressed in his interview with Anderson Cooper – is how a drug-induced conversion in his final moments would be used by certain believers.

And as for that loving god I keep hearing about on here and was force-fed throughout childhood and adolescence, if Hitchens (and I) are wrong, we get an eternity in the lake of fire that is hell. Loving indeed.

elcapt on August 7, 2010 at 10:25 PM

And as for that loving god I keep hearing about on here and was force-fed throughout childhood and adolescence, if Hitchens (and I) are wrong, we get an eternity in the lake of fire that is hell. Loving indeed.
elcapt on August 7, 2010 at 10:25 PM

Well said elcapt… You and I are of one mind on this. I see the same story in my life.

People need to rethink they’re beliefs, but not on their deathbeds… I too was force fed, as were we all (mostly), the tripe that is religious dogma and ritual. Repeating ad nauseum the platitudinous mantras of the religion, and staying ignorant of the reality we find around us.

Because as Proverbs 3:5 says:

Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding

Just be a good sheeple.

SauerKraut537 on August 7, 2010 at 10:36 PM

There are no atheists in foxholes or hospices.

AaronGuzman on August 7, 2010 at 10:04 PM

My father died in a hospice of Crohn’s Disease in 2001.
My parents were/are Jewish.
Though I’m Catholic if my fundamentalist mother-in-law makes one more comment about how my father is ‘burning in hell like all other Jews who rejected Jesus’ I may become ‘violent’.
*glare*

annoyinglittletwerp on August 7, 2010 at 10:37 PM

There are no atheists in foxholes or hospices.

AaronGuzman on August 7, 2010 at 10:04 PM

You’re full of crap. I’ve worked with dying people in hospices that didn’t believe in any sort of god.

Besides that, just because a lot of people suddenly believe in god when they are at their most fearful and least rational, does that proves the existence of a magic sky fairy?

deewhybee on August 7, 2010 at 10:42 PM

Would God save an unrepentant sinner? Is that even a coherent account of salvation–can God ‘save’ people who refuse to be saved?

I’m not sure; it seems more likely to me that an unrepentant sinner could refuse salvation (i.e., God respects free will, including the choice to reject Him). But if the God I believe in exists, then He will do what is actually perfectly just and loving regardless of what I consider to be just or loving.

It seems perfectly natural to pray for Hitchens; who but the sick need a physician?

CliveStaples on August 7, 2010 at 10:45 PM

You’re full of crap. I’ve worked with dying people in hospices that didn’t believe in any sort of god.

Besides that, just because a lot of people suddenly believe in god when they are at their most fearful and least rational, does that proves the existence of a magic sky fairy?

Erm, has anyone suggested that the existence of some set of believers proves that the content of their belief is true? Seems like you’re arguing (rather vehemently) against a straw man.

CliveStaples on August 7, 2010 at 10:47 PM

It wouldn’t occur to me to hope that a believer, in their final moments, realize their views are “wrong” and go back on how they lived their lives. What’s even more disturbing – and Hitch addressed in his interview with Anderson Cooper – is how a drug-induced conversion in his final moments would be used by certain believers.

Of course it wouldn’t occur to you; what benefit would a deathbed conversion to atheism produce, even if atheism were true?

CliveStaples on August 7, 2010 at 10:49 PM

elcapt on August 7, 2010 at 10:25 PM

I agree it’s cruel. It’s also cowardly, as though they were kicking the man when he’s down. It’s repulsive.

I’ve admired Hitch for so many years, except the times when he would go on his atheist rants, when I (agnostic) would ask, ‘How can you be so sure’. But say what you will, Hitch has an extraordinary intellect coupled with intellectual honesty. And those two in one person are rare nowadays.

petefrt on August 7, 2010 at 10:52 PM

blatantblue on August 7, 2010 at 7:54 PM

I really loved your summary. You are spot on, BB!

Gob on August 7, 2010 at 11:09 PM

the age he represents has set a course of destruction like we have never seen before in history. Congratulations Hitchens, you win.

Fuquay Steve on August 7, 2010 at 7:59 PM

No. He doesn’t.

44Magnum on August 7, 2010 at 11:11 PM

Watch last half of collission documentary….decent chance hitchens could convert towards the end. Here. He has his doubts

jp on August 7, 2010 at 11:13 PM

Just be a good sheeple.

SauerKraut537 on August 7, 2010 at 10:36 PM

and yet it was christians ‘sheeple’ who repelled the muslim hordes, otherwise you’d really know what its like to be a sheeple…or you’d lose your head.

and of course it was those christian ‘sheeple’ that ended slavery…without people like Wilberforce, slavery would still be worldwide…

right4life on August 7, 2010 at 11:29 PM

. and staying ignorant of the reality we find around us.

Just be a good sheeple.

SauerKraut537 on August 7, 2010 at 10:36 PM

and christian ‘sheeple’ like newton and pasteur sure kept us dumb and ignorant…

your probably prefer darwin that ‘enlightened’ man who gave us eugenics…which hitler, sanger, and all the good progressives put to such ‘wonderful’ use….

right4life on August 7, 2010 at 11:32 PM

My father died in a hospice of Crohn’s Disease in 2001.
My parents were/are Jewish.
Though I’m Catholic if my fundamentalist mother-in-law makes one more comment about how my father is ‘burning in hell like all other Jews who rejected Jesus’ I may become ‘violent’.
*glare*

annoyinglittletwerp on August 7, 2010 at 10:37 PM

What is the teaching of the Church on whether or not Jews can go to heaven?
Answer by Catholic Answers on 2/4/2008:
M.F.–

The same as its teaching on the possibility of salvation for any non-Catholic or non-Christian: If the person does the best he can to do God’s will according to the knowledge of God’s will that he has, it is possible that he can be saved.

If you continue to spend time around that mother-in-law out of love and loyalty to your spouse, you are truly a good person, indeed, but by that same token your spouse should make it clear to his/her mother that if she continues on in that hurtful and profane way, she won’t be saying either one of you very often. I’m no theologist, but I’m certainly inclined to believe that someone who deliberately hurts another person is likely to end up in purgatory, AT BEST!

cynccook on August 7, 2010 at 11:32 PM

Would God save an unrepentant sinner? Is that even a coherent account of salvation–can God ’save’ people who refuse to be saved?

I’m not sure; it seems more likely to me that an unrepentant sinner could refuse salvation (i.e., God respects free will, including the choice to reject Him). But if the God I believe in exists, then He will do what is actually perfectly just and loving regardless of what I consider to be just or loving.

It seems perfectly natural to pray for Hitchens; who but the sick need a physician?

CliveStaples on August 7, 2010 at 10:45 PM

I’m in the middle of C.S. Lewis’s “The Problem of Pain.” He addresses exactly this topic of our authentic free choice. It would be a read well worth your while.

Mojave Mark on August 7, 2010 at 11:36 PM

I’ve just been reading The Stand by Stephen King and I was just at the part where Nick and Mother Abigail are talking about God.

Abigail talks about what God’s plans are and how she isn’t so fond of them at the moment, and Nick writes out that he doesn’t believe in God.

She just tells him God believes in him. Pretty powerful if you ask me.

B Man on August 7, 2010 at 11:46 PM

and yet it was christians ’sheeple’ who repelled the muslim hordes, otherwise you’d really know what its like to be a sheeple…or you’d lose your head.

and of course it was those christian ’sheeple’ that ended slavery…without people like Wilberforce, slavery would still be worldwide…

right4life on August 7, 2010 at 11:29 PM

Well right4life, so you’re saying that because Christians happened to oppose Muslims that they’re better than Muslims, all because you happen to be a Christian?

Why were the Muslims trying to conquer? Because their prophet said that their god said to do it. Christians are guilty of the same with the god of the old testament exhorting his newly chosen people in the Exodus story to kill man, woman, child and beast in the promised land god set aside for them, excepting the young girls of a certain age. He punishes Saul/Moses/et al for not exacting his revenge on the Amalakites well enough, or thorough enough.

Funny that you bring up slavery and Wilburforce… It was Wilburforce, and others who fought slavery, who made the choice to shed slavery from the standard operating procedures of humanity, not a god. In fact, Yahweh tells us exactly how a slave owner is to be dealt with if their slave dies after a beating. If on the first day, the owner is culpable and is punished. If the slave dies after the first day of the beating? The owner gets away with it. Exodus 20 or so…

Why is it that 4 out of the 6 biggest commandments all deal with praising god and enforcing continued adoration of him? Why not include the injunction against slavery in his 10 commandments?

SauerKraut537 on August 7, 2010 at 11:49 PM

right4life on August 7, 2010 at 11:32 PM

Arguing with an atheist about religion is like trying to explain the color pink to someone who has been blind from birth. It’s best just to pity them and move on. Have you ever known any joyful atheists?

cynccook on August 8, 2010 at 12:05 AM

Have you ever known any joyful atheists?

cynccook on August 8, 2010 at 12:05 AM

The only joyful ones I know are the converted ones… ;-)

LEBA on August 8, 2010 at 12:09 AM

I’ve always thought that it would be a joke on all of us if G-d let us have what we believed in.
I thought that the only religion that believed in burning in hell were the muslims. I mean literally burning. I’m sorry that anyone has to go through this horrible death. I’m sorry about your sister 7% and thanks for sharing. I think G-d has had a special feeling for the Jews, after he let his only begotten son come through that line. Thank heavens we don’t do the judging. I know there are a few on here who judge my religion all the time. I’m impressed with all your prayers for him – I did not like his writings and I avoided him on tv most of the time, but I think you are doing what Christ would want you to do.

Bambi on August 8, 2010 at 12:13 AM

@cyncook & LEBA…

Now that’s funny. You think because some atheists are “mean” by pointing out the inanity of your religion, and every other one mind you… NOT just yours, you think that they’re somehow joyless because of what they say or do in this one regard? What if some of them got joy from trying to deconvert people from something that they see as detrimental to true enlightenment.

Look, religions are like farts.

YOUR’s is good, whilst everyone else’s stinks.

SauerKraut537 on August 8, 2010 at 12:23 AM

The only joyful ones I know are the converted ones… ;-)

LEBA on August 8, 2010 at 12:09 AM

LOL That doesn’t count. I used to consider myself a committed agnostic (even then, atheism just seemed like such an arrogant statement to me), but somehow, (maybe it was the with the birth of my children) I just started to see the world differently and once my mind was more open, my eyes started seeing the ‘colors’ I hadn’t even known existed before. I converted to Catholicism about 10 years ago and it has made me a much better person, in every possible way. But I learned long ago that is useless to debate these people. They cannot or will not see and if you keep on, it is, as they say, like trying to teach a pig to sing — it wastes your time and annoys the pig. Now, on the other hand, if someone seems like they genuinely want to know more about one’s faith and what one believes, of course, by all means, share! For me, debating religion is something people do in college or high school might do to pass the time, pretty meaningless.

cynccook on August 8, 2010 at 12:27 AM

@cyncook & LEBA…

Now that’s funny. You think because some atheists are “mean” by pointing out the inanity of your religion, and every other one mind you… NOT just yours, you think that they’re somehow joyless because of what they say or do in this one regard? What if some of them got joy from trying to deconvert people from something that they see as detrimental to true enlightenment.

Look, religions are like farts.

YOUR’s is good, whilst everyone else’s stinks.

SauerKraut537 on August 8, 2010 at 12:23 AM

You know something, Sauersy? I sure have read a lot of your posts on this website lately, (on a range of topics, not just religion) and if you are ‘full of joy,’ I’ll eat my hat! And it is also pretty presumptuous of you to impugn any kind of feelings of religious superiority to me; you know nothing about me. The truth is, I feel sorry for you. You’re the one who can’t be content to let other people believe what they want to believe, you must belittle or insult people who disagree with you. You’re angry and I’ll bet you don’t really even know why. Also, you may wish to investigate a new tagline, I’ve seen your “religions are like” scatology a few times now and it’s really not as hilarious as you seem to think that it is.

cynccook on August 8, 2010 at 12:33 AM

LOL

SauerKraut537 on August 8, 2010 at 12:37 AM

I’ve been reading and enjoying Hitch for a long time. But he has some major blind spots, and all in all, still calls himself a man of the Left. He certainly can’t be called an anti-Communist of any sort – in fact gets quite weaselly on the subject. And he wrote a whole book on what a crummy person Mother Theresa was, and took the soonest opportunity to spit on Reagan (rhetorically) after his death.

However, for all of that, I wish him no ill, and pray for him and his family. I’m sad he has to leave us so soon.

Missy on August 8, 2010 at 12:49 AM

SauerKraut537 on August 8, 2010 at 12:23 AM

I can’t speak for cyncook. I was referring to actual people who I know that were once atheists and describe themselves as personally miserable (unsettled/restless/not at peace) prior to salvation. Knowing God didn’t solve all of their problems, but despite that they are at peace and joyful now.

LEBA on August 8, 2010 at 1:07 AM

For me, debating religion is something people do in college or high school might do to pass the time, pretty meaningless.

cynccook on August 8, 2010 at 12:27 AM

You’re right, of course. No point in arguing about nothing. better to just live and let live.

OldEnglish on August 8, 2010 at 1:12 AM

It has been obvious for some time that Hitch is a doubting Thomas.

He speaks and writes about the subject too often.

It wouldn’t be in the mind of a true Atheist.

OldEnglish on August 7, 2010 at 7:45 PM

Being an atheist who is intellectually honest enough to acknowledge that his belief that God doesn’t exist is just that, a belief, which means it hasn’t yet been proven, which means it might be untrue, merits him the label of ‘false atheist’? Imagine that, a litmus test for atheists!

While it’s true that atheism can’t fairly be said to be a religion, it is rationally undeniable that some atheists are adherents to the quasi-religion of Atheism.

Bizarro No. 1 on August 8, 2010 at 1:21 AM

Have you ever known any joyful atheists?

cynccook on August 8, 2010 at 12:05 AM

I don’t believe in the existence of atheists.

There. I said it.

There are only egotists who can’t acknowledge they are too clever by half.

John the Libertarian on August 8, 2010 at 1:25 AM

You’re the one who can’t be content to let other people believe what they want to believe, you must belittle or insult people who disagree with you. You’re angry and I’ll bet you don’t really even know why. Also, you may wish to investigate a new tagline, I’ve seen your “religions are like” scatology a few times now and it’s really not as hilarious as you seem to think that it is.

cynccook on August 8, 2010 at 12:33 AM

Oh, it’s exactly as funny as I believe it is!

The reason you don’t find it as humorous as I do is because you are a deluded religious person with a predictably sucky sense of humor, who’s childishly and irrationally angrily just feeling incriminated and defenseless by the weight of my logically overpowering arguments.

Stop being religious and become enlightened, secular, and ecstatically happy like I so clearly am!

/(smells like) Sauerkraut

Bizarro No. 1 on August 8, 2010 at 1:34 AM

Stop being religious and become enlightened, secular, and ecstatically happy like I so clearly am!

/(smells like) Sauerkraut

Bizarro No. 1 on August 8, 2010 at 1:34 AM

Been there, thought that — didn’t pan out!

cynccook on August 8, 2010 at 1:48 AM

Mr.H. needs to embrace God and his sinfully disgusting life will be forgiven. We pray for you Mr.H. Yes, we the children of God pray for your salvation be it now or before you leave us.

griv on August 8, 2010 at 2:26 AM

I really really want Christopher Hitchens to recover from this-he is a brilliant analyst-moreso with contemporary history than politics, and he is a joy to listen to. He is in the vein of a William F. Buckley Jr., and they only come around once every 50 years if one’s lucky.

sDs61678 on August 8, 2010 at 2:38 AM

I pray for Hitchens’ soul and comfort, and healing if it be God’s will, and that he find the truth before his time on earth is done and embrace the loving grace granted us all through Jesus Christ. In his situation, only God can help. May him find Him now.

Adjoran on August 8, 2010 at 2:40 AM

I’m in the middle of C.S. Lewis’s “The Problem of Pain.” He addresses exactly this topic of our authentic free choice. It would be a read well worth your while.

Mojave Mark on August 7, 2010 at 11:36 PM

I’ve read it (I’m a fan of Lewis’s, which you may have deduced from my moniker), although I think I prefer Alvin Plantinga’s free-will theodicy.

…and is the debate really about which ideology has had the most evil done in its name? I mean, it’s one thing to make a textual argument that the Bible endorses some heinous act, or that the Koran or Naturalist Materialism encourage heinous acts; that would be a productive (or at least relevant) debate.

But counting up the number of people who have done bad or good things while wearing a particular ideological name tag…doesn’t really tell me much about that ideology as such.

Why is it that 4 out of the 6 biggest commandments all deal with praising god and enforcing continued adoration of him? Why not include the injunction against slavery in his 10 commandments?

Actually, there are only two commandments:

1. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

The second is like it:

2. Love your neighbor as yourself.

All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.

Hey, maybe you should take a Christian theology class or something. You’re not the first person to wonder how to reconcile the Old and New Testaments with modern moral sensibilities.

CliveStaples on August 8, 2010 at 2:44 AM

The day can’t come soon enough when Bones McCoy looks back on our primitive 21st century therapies and says, “Chemotherapy???? Barbaric.”

I was thinking the same thing the other night.

Of all the currently modern medical prodcedures, future humankind will look back with horror at the brutality of chemotherapy. It will be seen as the 20th equivalent of 19th century amputations for minor infections.

rickyricardo on August 8, 2010 at 3:26 AM

I was only able to play the first video. Is anyone else having problems with the other video’s?

ramrants on August 8, 2010 at 3:37 AM

Of all the currently modern medical prodcedures, future humankind will look back with horror at the brutality of chemotherapy.

rickyricardo on August 8, 2010 at 3:26 AM

And they will look back in horror and say, “They used to kill babies and call it a ‘choice.’”

John the Libertarian on August 8, 2010 at 3:56 AM

the quasi-religion of Atheism.

Bizarro No. 1 on August 8, 2010 at 1:21 AM

Apologies for the late reply (time zone).

The above definition that many people have is one that puzzles me – both from the religious and non-religious who use this term.

Atheism is a state of mind that eschews anything of a supernatural nature, considering it not worthy of conscious thought. (very much in the vein of not considering the possibility of werewolves, the living dead, etc)

I just cannot see how a religion of nothing can exist. I can, however, see how an anti-theist religion can exist, because the acknowledgement of a God is admitted, and the rejection thereof practiced.

OldEnglish on August 8, 2010 at 4:26 AM

And they will look back in horror and say, “They used to kill babies and call it a ‘choice.’”

John the Libertarian on August 8, 2010 at 3:56 AM

Yes, they will move on to calling having a baby a choice. Abortion, as now is, will disappear through the future ability to switch on the uterus as desired – at least, that would be the desired goal.

OldEnglish on August 8, 2010 at 4:32 AM

OldEnglish on August 8, 2010 at 4:32 AM

I am crawing out on a limb..but I think abortion will go away..just a hunch.. :)

Dire Straits on August 8, 2010 at 4:38 AM

I am crawing crawling out on a limb..but I think abortion will go away..just a hunch.. :)

Dire Straits on August 8, 2010 at 4:38 AM

Sorry for the typo.

Dire Straits on August 8, 2010 at 4:42 AM

Look, religions are like farts.

YOUR’s [sic] is good, whilst everyone else’s [sic] stinks.

SauerKraut537 on August 8, 2010 at 12:23 AM

How does it feel to be so sure?

Ugly on August 8, 2010 at 5:13 AM

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