Hitchens on esophageal cancer: Let’s face it, the odds aren’t good

posted at 9:41 pm on August 5, 2010 by Allahpundit

Tough to watch, especially when he lapses into the idiom of torture to describe what lies ahead. He’s stoic as ever in discussing it, of course — I’d almost be disappointed if he wasn’t — but to my untrained eye there’s a glimmer of emotion at around 1:05 when he mentions all the people who are praying for him. I’m not among them for obvious reasons, but if you’re so inclined, it might (might) help.

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If the beliefs in these deities weren’t there, that would be one less reason to fight now wouldn’t it?

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 1:24 PM

Meanwhile, you feed at the trough of goodwill that the faithful have created for all…and tell me, how many hospitals have the atheists built, how many battered women, homeless children have they fed and cared for? How many aids victims decades ago when it was considered the “plague”, you see you selfishly gobble up what is freely given to you, without ever acknowledging your benefactor.
And interesting that you quote Einstein, a Jew that understood that faith should not come from fear, like Christians it comes from love.
Here are some more quotes from him:
“I want to know God’s thoughts; the rest are details.”
“I am convinced that He (God) does not play dice.”
“God is subtle but he is not malicious.”
“My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”

And for you the zinger from someone you obviously respect and admire:
“Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.”

You should learn from the people you admire…

right2bright on August 6, 2010 at 2:02 PM

reshas1 on August 6, 2010 at 1:57 PM

Thanks for reminding us of the mindset of the liberal…I love the faux indignation of them when we attack one of theirs…their hate have no bounds.

right2bright on August 6, 2010 at 2:04 PM

whiskeytango on August 6, 2010 at 9:59 AM

Profane humor should admit that as Tesla understood and demonstrated for example, there are existing powers which vanity will not comprehend or appreciate, hence through ignorant and vicious bigotry campaign against as Edison did.

maverick muse on August 6, 2010 at 2:13 PM

If the beliefs in these deities weren’t there, that would be one less reason to fight now wouldn’t it?

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 1:24 PM

Wouldn’t that depend on what beliefs exist instead?

It isn’t as if sophistry that elitists exemplify doesn’t ordain Marx as god.

maverick muse on August 6, 2010 at 2:16 PM

right2bright on August 6, 2010 at 2:02 PM

This CLAIM you make that only theists or religious people hold exclusive rights to altruistic and empathetic behavior is completely fallacious. We know that there are plenty of people without belief who are just as caring as the most caring person in any religion.

but I understand that you want to prop up your religion as the source of all goodness in the world. Keep deluding yourself brother.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 2:43 PM

Spare me the faux compassion Grace. Your inane religion is just as inane as the Muslims and any other religion we have on this planet.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 1:24 PM

Such hate. You stay classy.

Bookmarked for posterity.

fossten on August 6, 2010 at 2:46 PM

Ack….so painful.

In great play by Marlowe, Dr. Faustus never repents for selling his soul, as his pride blinds him to the fact that salvation is still possible.

There is no one smarter than Hitch. But, yes, Satan has blinded him with pride that he won’t even seek salvation at the end of his mortal life. His pride won’t let him admit the possibility of error.

Atheism, which many smart people are now embracing, is the absolutely dumbest bet ever. If you lose, you lose. And if you win, you lose.

johnboy on August 6, 2010 at 2:52 PM

Wouldn’t that depend on what beliefs exist instead?

It isn’t as if sophistry that elitists exemplify doesn’t ordain Marx as god.

maverick muse on August 6, 2010 at 2:16 PM

I didn’t claim that if the belief wasn’t there that all our woes would go away but I DO say that if this belief that we all get so emotional about wasn’t there, that there would be ONE less reason to fight over things.

the issue is that religion DOES divide us as a species… It pits man against man because we all think we know everything first and foremost, especially religiously inclined people who live in a black and white world.

this psychological factor is at play in all religious disputes and wars where ones faith in this ethereal being we THINK exists rules our lives and makes demands of us that we certainly wouldn’t consider doing in any other endeavor in our lives.

Religion degrades humanity. With or without religion you would have good people doing good things and bad people doing bad. but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.
Steven Weinberg

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 2:59 PM

Such hate. You stay classy.

Bookmarked for posterity.

fossten on August 6, 2010 at 2:46 PM

It’s not hate, though you’d like to characterize it as such. It’s called, calling her out on her fake compassion.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 3:07 PM

the issue is that religion DOES divide us as a species… It pits man against man because we all think we know everything first and foremost, especially religiously inclined people who live in a black and white world.

this psychological factor is at play in all religious disputes and wars where ones faith in this ethereal being we THINK exists rules our lives and makes demands of us that we certainly wouldn’t consider doing in any other endeavor in our lives.

Religion degrades humanity. With or without religion you would have good people doing good things and bad people doing bad. but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.
Steven Weinberg

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 2:59 PM

So when religious people aren’t disagreeing without being disagreeable, somehow the fault lies with what they believe, and not their lack of a good sense of propriety?

The way you carry on about religion shows anyone who’s paying attention what an unhappy, unfulfilled person you are. If you were honest with yourself, you’d admit that your personal crusade is based upon a need you feel to convince yourself of what you are saying – normal people who are secure in their beliefs just don’t act the way you do.

You’re blind to your own irrational predjudice, and you look exactly like the nut you accuse the religious person of being. Like Hitchens, you ignore the good part of religion (for examples, Christians are called to become better people, and if they aren’t improving themselves when confronted with their flaws, they aren’t being properly religious) and come off as though every religious person is as hopelessly foolish as the Phelps family.

You’re as intellectually lazy and offensive about religion as Leftists are about everything.

Bizarro No. 1 on August 6, 2010 at 4:02 PM

Spare me the faux compassion Grace. Your inane religion is just as inane as the Muslims and any other religion we have on this planet.

Just because I choose to “pipe up” when the topic is atheism shouldn’t concern you. It’s because I see religion as the eventual downfall of man.

“Religion as the eventual downfall of man”, yet you can’t point out a period in human history that was completely devoid of religion or a God concept of some sort. I could just as easily say that lack of religion will be the eventual downfall of man.

Anyway, Hitchens doesn’t seem to be too offended by the “faux compassion”, so I don’t see where you would be offended by it.

It’s either the end times prophecies of Christianity or the end times prophecies of Islam, but they both say pretty much the same thing…

That there will be a final reckoning.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 1:24 PM

Unless you believe in some sort of eternal cyclical history, the line eventually comes to an end somewhere.

Hebrews 11:1

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

You call following this mentality a good thing because thats essentially what all religions do. I’d call that inane behavior.

“The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge
Albert Einstein

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 1:52 PM

Is a belief in things like “inherent rights” and “individual dignity” demonstrably “rational” and scientifically provable? No.

ddrintn on August 6, 2010 at 4:10 PM

^ I might also add that while Einstein was a brilliant scientist, he was no more an authority on religion than anyone else.

ddrintn on August 6, 2010 at 4:13 PM

I’ve found this man insulting many times throughout his career but I can’t imagine wishing this fate on anyone. I hope he recovers and can go on saying things that offend me. This world won’t be the same once he is gone.

I pray that he finds some kind of salvation even if he has too much pride to admit it publically. It’s really none of my business anyhow (his relationship or lack there of with God)

phadedjaded on August 6, 2010 at 4:24 PM

Bizarro No. 1 on August 6, 2010 at 4:02 PM

Nice try with the pop psychology but you’re way off.

Your claims that Christians are called to become better people is no different than any other religion. Do you really think that Christianity is any different than any other religion in that respect? Is Christianity really a unique religion like it claims for itself? Virgin births? Resurrections? Ascensions? All of these types of supernatural claims predate Christianity and the laity soak it all up as if it’s (Christianity) unique in this respect.

Wake up will you and quit with the delusions.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 4:46 PM

Nice try with the pop psychology but you’re way off.

Your claims that Christians are called to become better people is no different than any other religion. Do you really think that Christianity is any different than any other religion in that respect? Is Christianity really a unique religion like it claims for itself? Virgin births? Resurrections? Ascensions? All of these types of supernatural claims predate Christianity and the laity soak it all up as if it’s (Christianity) unique in this respect.

Wake up will you and quit with the delusions.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 4:46 PM

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

You drone on and on while repeating the same talking points as you completely ignore what you can’t reasonably refute, hoping your incantations will magically convert believers to come to your side. Your attempts are as laughably inept and unappealing as the Phelps family’s are, and everyone but you sees this.

How does it make any sense to blame religion for the bad behavior of some of its subscribers, while absolving atheism, another belief, of the same thing? The fact is, it doesn’t make any sense.

First you said that religion divides people, then when I pointed out that it’s not religion which divides people but instead it’s their lack of manners, you throw out the self-undermining non-sequitor that all religions call their followers to become better people. How can it be the fault of religion if religious people are rude when those same religions, according to you, condemn rudeness?

I have some Left-leaning friends whom I’ve debated the Iraq war with over the years. Except for one person, all of those friends of mine remained respectful. If we were to apply your reasoning about religion to those debates, the (ex) friend who disrespectfully disagreed with me was rude because of the topic of the discussion, and not because of some unrelated character flaw he already possessed.

You’re not worth debating because you lack the requisite intellectually integrity to make anyone’s time talking to you fruitful, as you invariably stray off topic and veer into making personal attacks. You’re unable to gracefully admit that you and your beliefs might be imperfect, and that makes you a boring, bad conversationalist.

Don’t waste any more of our time until you psychologically mature enough to lose your conceit.

Bizarro No. 1 on August 6, 2010 at 6:03 PM

Is Christianity really a unique religion like it claims for itself?

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 4:46 PM

It must be. Otherwise folks like you wouldn’t spend so much time attacking it.

ddrintn on August 6, 2010 at 6:10 PM

First off Bizarro, it was you who brought up the point about Christians being called to be better people, intimating in the process as if other religions didn’t. Don’t fault me for pointing it out. As to your continued attempts to pigeonhole me as some kind of nut… Well, let’s just say it’s a pretty lame attempt.

You can try all you like to throw some psychological mumbo jumbo at me but I know where I stand and what I mean. You may miss the point of what I’m saying entirely, but I can’t be faulted for that.

The facts are that religions are a collection of poorly thought out morals and ethics that reflect the times in which the religions were foisted on us. I just wish more people saw it themselves and so I talk about it.

I suppose I’m just supposed to be a “good” atheist and keep my mouth shut when I hear the inane assertions of religious people? I’m sorry, I can’t do that. If someone’s wrong about something then they need to hear it, no matter how much it hurts or offends them.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 6:48 PM

Is Christianity really a unique religion like it claims for itself?

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 4:46 PM

It must be. Otherwise folks like you wouldn’t spend so much time attacking it.

ddrintn on August 6, 2010 at 6:10 PM

With logic like this, it’s no wonder that the US is going downhill and fast.

I guess it never occurred to you that the reason you hear so many people tagging Christianity is because you’re in a Christian nation with people who used to be Christians or were atheists to start with.

I guess it never occurred to you that the reason you think so many tear it down is because we all happen to speak the same language in this country, or mostly do, and so we talk about what we know?

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 6:53 PM

Actually, you use a video on youtube to define your beliefs, I take the commentary of hundreds of academics…you obviously are not 2bright.

right2bright on August 6, 2010 at 11:36 AM

Typical religious rhetoric…
Yes, it’s true that I linked to a video that depicts heinous passages in the same bronze-aged manual for lunatics that you quote from regularly. Oh, but the fact that I linked to a video discredits my argument. - Two Shay- Btw Let’s play a game where we pick random quotes from the bible.. You to promote the ideas of the bible and I to do the opposite. Your turn, or will you just try to divert again?

It must be. Otherwise folks like you wouldn’t spend so much time attacking it.

ddrintn on August 6, 2010 at 6:10 PM

Religious/Schizotypal folk have had thousands of years to infiltrate rituals and falsehoods in every facet of life, so don’t be suprised that when people are able to push back, they do.

whiskeytango on August 6, 2010 at 6:56 PM

and it’s really funny how religious people always ignore the points atheists like myself bring up… you always fail to acknowledge the points I bring up and attack the messenger with ad hominum attacks characterizing the messenger as some kind of loon with psychological issues, etc… Funny that.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 7:00 PM

Hey Whiskeytango… glad to see I’m not alone in my disdain for religious dogma and insanity. ;-)

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 7:03 PM

ad hominems’s the only way to go when you have no where else to go. It’s all part of the script.

whiskeytango on August 6, 2010 at 7:07 PM

Religious/Schizotypal folk have had thousands of years to infiltrate rituals and falsehoods in every facet of life, so don’t be suprised that when people are able to push back, they do.

whiskeytango on August 6, 2010 at 6:56 PM

Looks more like flailing than pushing back.

and it’s really funny how religious people always ignore the points atheists like myself bring up… you always fail to acknowledge the points I bring up and attack the messenger with ad hominum attacks characterizing the messenger as some kind of loon with psychological issues, etc… Funny that.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 7:00 PM

You didn’t address anything I brought up, and I didn’t attack you personally. Hey, if you don’t believe, that’s your choice. But the Evangelical Atheist types are amusing. They DO make a hobby of not raising rabbits, to use an old stock phrase from numerous discussion boards.

ddrintn on August 6, 2010 at 7:08 PM

I guess it never occurred to you that the reason you hear so many people tagging Christianity is because you’re in a Christian nation

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 6:53 PM

Get your facts straight. Evangelical Atheists ™ assure us there is no such thing.

ddrintn on August 6, 2010 at 7:10 PM

ddrintn on August 6, 2010 at 7:08 PM
The ad hominum comment wasn’t addressed to you but to Bizarro, who can only attack the messenger who’s pointing out silly beliefs and not address the actual topic at hand.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 7:14 PM

Get your facts straight. Evangelical Atheists ™ assure us there is no such thing.

ddrintn on August 6, 2010 at 7:10 PM

You’re absolutely right, I forgot to put quotation marks around that, but darn it, I can’t edit past comments so I guess you’re just gonna have to take my word for it. It was meant in a more sarcastic vein.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 7:15 PM

ddrintn on August 6, 2010 at 7:08 PM
The ad hominum comment wasn’t addressed to you but to Bizarro, who can only attack the messenger who’s pointing out silly beliefs and not address the actual topic at hand.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 7:14 PM

It’s “ad hominem”. If you’re going to fling them around yourself, you should learn how it’s spelled.

ddrintn on August 6, 2010 at 7:16 PM

Looks more like flailing than pushing back.

Please elaborate…

whiskeytango on August 6, 2010 at 7:16 PM

You’re absolutely right, I forgot to put quotation marks around that, but darn it, I can’t edit past comments so I guess you’re just gonna have to take my word for it. It was meant in a more sarcastic vein.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 7:15 PM

Thereby negating your own point. Now go find a Muslim board and try to convert them.

ddrintn on August 6, 2010 at 7:17 PM

Looks more like flailing than pushing back.

Please elaborate…

whiskeytango on August 6, 2010 at 7:16 PM

Read your posts and SauerKraut’s.

ddrintn on August 6, 2010 at 7:17 PM

Read your posts and SauerKraut’s.

ddrintn on August 6, 2010 at 7:17 PM

I can’t speak for the other person here, but all you’re doing is finger pointing with no point to make. Spell it out for us simple folk.

whiskeytango on August 6, 2010 at 7:20 PM

Thereby negating your own point. Now go find a Muslim board and try to convert them.

ddrintn on August 6, 2010 at 7:17 PM

How, pray tell, does it negate my point?

If I could speak Arabic or some other middle eastern language I’d be over there as well bugging them. I’m an equal opportunity offender when it comes to religious beliefs. They are all deserving of scorn and revilement.

And “oh no!, I misspellllllled a word in 4um and so now I’m banished to hell?!”

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 7:21 PM

Whiskey, he’s saying that all that we’ve said so far sounded like flailing (the obviously less desirable intent) instead of pushing back (the more honorable and sought after characterization).

Ouchies! He’s playing rough…. ;-P

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 7:24 PM

the issue is that religion DOES divide us as a species… It pits man against man because we all think we know everything first and foremost, especially religiously inclined people who live in a black and white world.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 2:59 PM

I suppose I’m just supposed to be a “good” atheist and keep my mouth shut when I hear the inane assertions of religious people? I’m sorry, I can’t do that. If someone’s wrong about something then they need to hear it, no matter how much it hurts or offends them.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 6:48 PM

Um..does anyone else see the humor here? You are chastising the religious for “thinking they know it all” and then declaring all religious people and religion itself to be wrong and inane. Fascinating.

BakerAllie on August 6, 2010 at 7:28 PM

It’s amazing to me that someone can remain such a strident atheist in the face of almost certain death. I wonder if that’s just an act so he won’t look hypocritical.

jonezee on August 6, 2010 at 7:33 PM

This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys. (1st Sam 15:2-3)

You got no pancake mix.

esnap on August 6, 2010 at 7:41 PM

Spare me the faux compassion Grace. Your inane religion is just as inane as the Muslims and any other religion we have on this planet.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 7:24 PM

Do not mistake my concern. You are a full-grown man, yet you are on this thread most of the day, “refuting” beliefs with which you disagree and throwing virtual stones at those who come against you.

I have a feeling you do this on several sites all day long, and I notice that your tone is increasingly volatile and spiteful. I love the internet, but I know that an excessive fascination with internet debate is harmful. An anonymous world, in which opposing ideas are nameless and faceless, can foster a disconnect that becomes socially, psychologically, and emotionally harmful if overused or used for just one purpose.

Also, you don’t get to judge sincerity in another person, though perhaps this screen-filled bubble you live in would allow you to believe so. Rest assured, my concern is well-founded and quite sincere.

Grace_is_sufficient on August 6, 2010 at 7:59 PM

Grace_is_sufficient on August 6, 2010 at 7:59 PM

Please spare us the psychobabble will you? It’s as unfounded as your belief in theistic gods are.

What makes me mad is the cognitive dissonance that you all hold. The human minds ability to compartmentalize never ceases to amaze me. I want you to see yet just as this article shows, sometimes facts are detrimental to someone you debate against…

The tone is political in the article but it’s relevant to the discussion at hand.

Motivated reasoning anyone?

How Facts Backfire — Boston Globe

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 8:40 PM

First off Bizarro, it was you who brought up the point about Christians being called to be better people, intimating in the process as if other religions didn’t. Don’t fault me for pointing it out. As to your continued attempts to pigeonhole me as some kind of nut… Well, let’s just say it’s a pretty lame attempt.

You can try all you like to throw some psychological mumbo jumbo at me but I know where I stand and what I mean. You may miss the point of what I’m saying entirely, but I can’t be faulted for that.

The facts are that religions are a collection of poorly thought out morals and ethics that reflect the times in which the religions were foisted on us. I just wish more people saw it themselves and so I talk about it.

I suppose I’m just supposed to be a “good” atheist and keep my mouth shut when I hear the inane assertions of religious people? I’m sorry, I can’t do that. If someone’s wrong about something then they need to hear it, no matter how much it hurts or offends them.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 6:48 PM

blah blah blah blah blah

You are a terrible debater not only because you aren’t capable of reasoning well enough to find your way out of your own personal Hell, you’re legendarily incompetent when it comes to reading comprehension and challenging arguments which you won’t dare address because if you did, you know your little house of cards would inevitably collapse.

You are the childish atheist equivalent of a streetcorner preacher who can’t hear anyone else because he’s too busy yelling at everyone! ‘Listen to me! Listen to me! What, did you say something? Oh. Ok, let’s all get back to listening to me!’

You’re blind, obnoxious, and crazy – there’s no point in interacting with someone like you who’s obliviously stuck in his own personal echo chamber.

Keep on keepin’ on in your delusion of adequacy. Bye now! :)

Bizarro No. 1 on August 6, 2010 at 8:45 PM

ad hominems’s the only way to go when you have no where else to go. It’s all part of the script.

whiskeytango on August 6, 2010 at 7:07 PM

Your utter cluelessness to your own guilt in this matter is astounding! Hilarious too!

Bizarro No. 1 on August 6, 2010 at 8:48 PM

Um..does anyone else see the humor here? You are chastising the religious for “thinking they know it all” and then declaring all religious people and religion itself to be wrong and inane. Fascinating.

BakerAllie on August 6, 2010 at 7:28 PM

Yes, his denial of the obvious is humorous.

When people have unresolved mental issues, they either unconsciously act out and make others deal with it, or they keep it to themselves and suffer alone. Good ol’ Sauerkraut here is definitely a projecting act-outer!

Bizarro No. 1 on August 6, 2010 at 8:55 PM

Bizarro No. 1 on August 6, 2010 at 8:55 PM

Again, nothing but ad hominem from the great and erudite Bizarro.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 9:17 PM

Ad hominem abusive usually involves insulting or belittling one’s opponent in order to invalidate their argument, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensible character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent’s argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent’s personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent’s arguments or assertions.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 9:25 PM

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 9:25 PM

Oh, you mean like calling my compassion “faux”? Or claiming that I have cognitive dissonance?

Since you’re a big believer in divulging when “something’s wrong with something”, I’ll remind you of a few months ago, when you began treating me with surprising contempt. At that time, you admitted you’d recently broken up with a Christian girl.

Jesus didn’t jilt you, Kraut, even if the girl did.

For the record, that’s serious concern in my voice.

Grace_is_sufficient on August 6, 2010 at 9:49 PM

You’d already had cross words with me then thus why i called your compassion faux.

I don’t recall ever saying anything about a christian girlfriend at all. I’m married with 2 kids, but what are you? A shrink or something?

I don’t think Jesus jilted me at all. It all means nothing more to me than belief in goblins or superman or santa claus anymore. It’s all fables and myth.

If there IS a god, he’s surely better than any of the ones so far proposed. I say fine, believe in one if you wish but why does it need to be only ONE god? Show me the proof that ONE god made the universe. Can you prove that one god made the universe and not 2 or 3?

I somewhat appreciate the concern Grace but it’s unwarranted. Why do you think my commenting here has been so sporadic? I have quite the life thank you very much. As I said, I’ve got two lovely children and a wife and plenty to do with work but every now and again I choose to battle the inanity of my former religion and all the other religions that both you and I believe are wrong as well.

You see, I’m no different than you or any other Christian on here. I just went one god further, took me 40 years to get there due to excessive brain washing, but I got there.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 10:11 PM

Closer is easy. It’s excepting the fact that the person you lost will never walk this earth again until the Lord comes and claims his bride.

Poor guy. I don’t particularly like the guy, but it’s always depressing to see the blind dying and unwilling to at least open their mind to the possibility that there is a God and his Son is Jesus Christ.

jawkneemusic on August 6, 2010 at 10:12 PM

Tell me the next time you’re at a Christian event that it doesn’t feel the slightest bit like brain washing… reciting over and over the same platitudinous phrases and mantras. The pomp and circumstance of the events and rituals performed. It’s ludicrous and robs the mind of free will and enlightenment.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 10:16 PM

My prayer at this point is he get right with God.

abcurtis on August 6, 2010 at 10:34 PM

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 10:16 PM

Unfortunately, that’s what modern worship has become. The music is repetitious and the message of the Gospel is non-existent.

abcurtis on August 6, 2010 at 10:36 PM

It’s all fables and myth.

For your sake, you’d better be right. and that’s all I’m going to say on the matter.

abcurtis on August 6, 2010 at 10:38 PM

Quoting Hitchens

Pascal’s wager

Talk about the way religion degrades argument and degrades dignity and degrades self respect, there you have it in one syllogism… But I have my answer… The following; On the assumption that the god they’re talking about is anything like the god they OUGHT to be believing in, I’d say the following:

I presume, divine sir, that you have some respect for intellectual honesty and for moral courage, and that you would look with more favor on somebody who made an honest profession of unbelief, than on someone who acceded to believe in you in the hope of a hand out, or in other words only followed any moral teachings that were professed in your name out of fear from your judgment, or because they expected some reward as a result.

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 10:47 PM

Not “every now and then”, Kraut. Note the time and volume of your posts on this thread, starting early afternoon. How many sympathetic responses have you garnered? What has all your commentary earned you?

You can go on all you want; it’s a relatively open forum and a free nation. But if I had no eternity ahead of me, you best believe I’d be clinging to my children and my husband right now rather than typing volumes on a computer, trying feverishly to steal people’s beliefs and replace them with “reason”.

I find if confounding and I’m still concerned, but I’m bowing out. I wish you peace. You need some.

Grace_is_sufficient on August 6, 2010 at 10:59 PM

peace

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 11:00 PM

Grace_is_sufficient on August 6, 2010 at 10:59 PM

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Carl Sagan

SauerKraut537 on August 6, 2010 at 11:02 PM

And for the record Grace, I was referring to the number of days that I’ve ever commented here… I think I’ve spent maybe 5 times/days out of the last year that I’ve ever actually said anything. I wasn’t talking about today’s commenting, yes I’ve been commenting a lot today…

SauerKraut537 on August 7, 2010 at 12:51 AM

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