Open thread: Federal judge’s ruling on Proposition 8 coming soon; Update: Prop 8 struck down
posted at 4:45 pm on August 4, 2010 by Allahpundit
It’s set to drop sometime between 4 p.m. and 7 p.m. ET, and since it’s sure to be the story of the day, let’s get a thread up now for rapid reaction when it does. The suspense mounts: Will Judge Vaughn Walker hand conservatives a legal victory by upholding Prop 8 against Ted Olson’s and David Boies’s equal protection challenge? Or will he hand conservatives a political victory by striking the law down, thereby irritating the (decreasing) majority nationwide that opposes gay marriage and giving the GOP an irresistible midterm talking point about “activist judges”? Heads you win, tails they lose. Unless of course you’re noted gay-marriage opponent Barack Obama, who I’m betting will be oddly downbeat if Walker vindicates his ostensible position by upholding the law.
While we wait, you can read Olson’s opening statement at the trial here. The key line for legal purposes is “There is no rational justification for this unique pattern of discrimination.” In any equal protection case, there are three levels of scrutiny: (1) strict scrutiny, which applies to laws that discriminate based on race or religion; (2) intermediate scrutiny, which applies to laws that discriminate based on gender; and (3) rational-basis review, which applies to all other forms of discrimination, especially economic. Basically, a law that falls into the first category is always unconstitutional, a law that falls into the second is sometimes unconstitutional (it depends on the specifics), and a law that falls into the third is almost always constitutional. Because the Supreme Court has never held that gays are a “suspect class” and therefore deserving of the special protection of strict scrutiny, Olson had a choice of how to approach this. Either he could argue that they should be a suspect class, in which case Prop 8 would inevitably be struck down, or he could forget the suspect class stuff and argue that even under the lowest level of scrutiny — rational-basis review — Prop 8 should be struck down because denying marriage rights to gays serves no rational purpose. He apparently went the latter route, which is smart insofar as the Supremes will be reluctant to extend “suspect class” status any further than it already is and because Anthony Kennedy has already written two landmark decisions striking down anti-gay laws — one of which was explicitly based on rational-basis review. In other words, Olson already has his eye on this case landing in the high court and he’s playing for a 5-4 win with Kennedy as the deciding vote, figuring that if AK was willing to call discrimination against gays irrational once before, he’ll be willing to do so again.
So there’s the legal posture, and there’s your explanation why this case will assuredly be appealed to the (gulp) Ninth Circuit no matter which way it goes. Stand by for updates.
Update: My timing was perfect: Just as I hit publish on this post, the news broke that Walker has torpedoed Prop 8. No surprise. Waiting for the opinion.
Update: Okay, here’s the decision. The law was struck down on two grounds, both due process (page 109) and, as expected, equal protection (page 117). And as expected, the EP ruling is that there’s no rational basis for limiting marriage to straights.
Proposition 8 fails to advance any rational basis in singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license. Indeed, the evidence shows Proposition 8 does nothing more than enshrine in the California Constitution the notion that opposite sex couples are superior to same-sex couples. Because California has no interest in discriminating against gay men and lesbians, and because Proposition 8 prevents California from fulfilling its constitutional obligation to provide marriages on an equal basis, the court concludes that Proposition 8 is unconstitutional.
Update: The LA Times notes that even the witnesses who testified on behalf of Prop 8 made important concessions:
Backers of Proposition 8 contended that the legal burden was on the challengers to prove there was no rational justification for voting for the measure. They cited as rational a view that children fare best with both a father and a mother.
But defense witnesses conceded in cross-examination that studies show children reared from birth by same-sex couples fared as well as those born to opposite-sex parents and that marriage would benefit the families of gays and lesbians.
Update: Gabe Malor has another key excerpt from the opinion the lack of compelling witness testimony in defense of the law.
Update: CNN has a handy dandy guide to how this will make its way up to the ladder to the Supreme Court. First comes the three-judge hearing in the Ninth Circuit, then comes an en banc hearing of the entire court, and then presumably the Supremes will grant cert. Possibly … just in time for the 2012 election?
Update: A good point by Marc Ambinder on why the evidentiary portions of the ruling are arguably more important than the legal conclusions. Appellate courts can overrule the latter but they’re usually bound by the trial court’s findings of fact. So Walker’s finding, based on the testimony, that “Same-sex couples are identical to opposite-sex couples in the characteristics relevant to the ability to form successful marital union” should in theory also guide the Supreme Court.









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Drudge has it. Judge ruled Prop 8 unconstitutional.
haikusrock on August 4, 2010 at 4:47 PM
It already dropped… Prop8 was overturned…
ninjapirate on August 4, 2010 at 4:47 PM
Well, according to Drudge, the court has already ruled: unconstitutional under equal protection and due process…
cynccook on August 4, 2010 at 4:47 PM
Nothing is official yet
Mark1971 on August 4, 2010 at 4:47 PM
‘Proposition 8 places the force of law behind stigmas against gays and lesbians’…
Via drudge
upinak on August 4, 2010 at 4:48 PM
The judge was Vaughn Walker. He attempted to intimidate Pro-Proposition 8 witnesses by broadcasting the trial on YouTube or something. SCOTUS banned the broadcast.
No surprise. He had his mind made up on day one. He may as well have been playing Call of Duty during the trial and waiting for today so he could release his ruling.
On to SCOTUS.
amerpundit on August 4, 2010 at 4:48 PM
Overturned.
labrat on August 4, 2010 at 4:49 PM
Moonbeam Jerry has to be hating this…
Not that he got it thrown out but that, since he’s running against Meg Whitman, there’s going to be a LOT of public pressure on him to appeal this.
teke184 on August 4, 2010 at 4:49 PM
Cavuto is reporting that Prop 8 goes down.
Judge Nap predicts SCOTUS will go 5-4 for gay marriage.
We’ll all be gay soon.
BuckeyeSam on August 4, 2010 at 4:49 PM
Voters, who needs them.
/libs
Lance Murdock on August 4, 2010 at 4:49 PM
Ok, I support gay marriage and even I think that sounds like a load of BS. Prop 8 is simply defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman. It’s not stigmatizing against anyone. Just because you oppose redefining an institution that’s been around for thousands of years doesn’t make you a bigot.
Doughboy on August 4, 2010 at 4:49 PM
I saw that coming like a slow train from miles away
phadedjaded on August 4, 2010 at 4:50 PM
Never had a chance with that judge
brak on August 4, 2010 at 4:50 PM
Doesnt’ Prop 8 also prohibit heterosexual persons of the same sex from marrying? If so, how can discrimination against homosexuals be claimed?
BobMbx on August 4, 2010 at 4:50 PM
Now here’s why the decision is bad news for the gay community: A majority of Americans still oppose gay marriage, but most won’t support federal action because the states can decide for themselves.
Until now.
Voters now see states deciding these issues for themselves and then being overruled by an activist judge. Just like the immigration law has resulted in a call for federal action, so will the ruling.
amerpundit on August 4, 2010 at 4:51 PM
http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-02-07/bay-area/17848482_1_same-sex-marriage-sexual-orientation-judge-walker
Yeah. Non-issue.
Django on August 4, 2010 at 4:51 PM
youhave 8 minutes until 2 PM Pac Time.
upinak on August 4, 2010 at 4:52 PM
The will of the people is thwarted yet again by activist judges hell bent on destroying the very moral fiber of this once great nation.
Guardian on August 4, 2010 at 4:52 PM
No caption below the bomb picture.
Let’s start
“The day the world ended”
Schadenfreude on August 4, 2010 at 4:52 PM
Last time I looked it was a marriage license, not a right … Rights come from God and I really doubt God would approve of this abomination.
I want a plumbers license because I got a right to it.
What has happened to common sense.
tarpon on August 4, 2010 at 4:53 PM
Nothing will stand with activists judges.
Mirimichi on August 4, 2010 at 4:54 PM
It got banned because using it was harmful to the self-esteem of the little snowflakes who came up with dumb ideas.
teke184 on August 4, 2010 at 4:54 PM
Judicial Oligarcy.
29Victor on August 4, 2010 at 4:54 PM
Nice going, anti-Prop 8 activists. They couldn’t find a single political hack judge in all of California who was straight? How is Walker’s orientation NOT going to be an issue based on the language used in his ruling?
Doughboy on August 4, 2010 at 4:55 PM
Why am I not surprised at this?
maynila on August 4, 2010 at 4:55 PM
Soon we will learn that the Constitution itself is un-Constitutional.
jpmn on August 4, 2010 at 4:56 PM
Thank God the ruling class is around to overrule the will of the people. Our masters must lead us to follow their superior instructions.
Django on August 4, 2010 at 4:56 PM
When you think about it, “plumbers license” is a great metaphor for a gay man’s marriage license.
And common sense died a long, long time ago in this country.
MississippiMom on August 4, 2010 at 4:56 PM
Militant gays cancel plans to burn Mormom churches and attack anyone looking “Christian”.
New plan will be to mock and laugh at Christians and anyone else who will not agree with them.
Left pundits say this shows “tolerance”.
darwin on August 4, 2010 at 4:56 PM
This one, with perfect timing. God is not on the side of the libs in this election cycle.
Now it goes to the 9th Circus, and then finally to the SC, where it belongs and must be clarified.
Schadenfreude on August 4, 2010 at 4:56 PM
Do you really need to be married via the State to be married?
Via drudge
upinak on August 4, 2010 at 4:56 PM
Good, that crap is unconstitutional.
Aquateen Hungerforce on August 4, 2010 at 4:56 PM
I hope this judge voted by the rule of the law, and the constitutioin, and not his personal bias. I suspect he did so with the latter.
To trounce down the will of the people of the state of California, for what…a 2nd time now? Reeks. More evidence this is becoming a dictatorship. When the will of the people is continually being shoved down the toilet, so that ideology trumps everything…we’re doomed.
capejasmine on August 4, 2010 at 4:56 PM
A States Rights issue for good or for bad…
mjbrooks3 on August 4, 2010 at 4:57 PM
It’s not discriminatory. A gay man is equally able to marry a woman as a straight man. Duh.
joeindc44 on August 4, 2010 at 4:57 PM
In jubilation, Dieter of Sprockets is now asking everyone to touch his monkey.
BuckeyeSam on August 4, 2010 at 4:57 PM
Love to know how it was unconstitutional – gay/straight has always fallen under rational basis which is a guaranteed loser for any challenge. How this one somehow won, on its face, screams that the judge (who clearly had a bone to pick in this fight with his antics) wanted a certain result and he was going to get it damnit.
Defector01 on August 4, 2010 at 4:57 PM
The evidence shows that the movement of marriage away from a gendered institution and toward an institution free from state-mandated gender roles reflects anevolution in the understanding of gender rather than a change in marriage.
Shut up. You’re evolving, and I will decide where to and how fast.
mesquito on August 4, 2010 at 4:58 PM
and, p.s. this judge (along with the Arizona immigration judge) needs to be impeached.
joeindc44 on August 4, 2010 at 4:58 PM
All praise and love to the wise state, peace be upon it.
We’re awfully close to being one of the banana republics we used to laugh at.
Django on August 4, 2010 at 4:58 PM
You thought you lived in a democracy? Hah! You serfs will live in the society your intellectual betters design for you, not the one you want to live in. Get with the program and stop thinking this is a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Go ahead and write your own Constitution, it doesn’t matter, we’ll tell you what it means once you’ve written it and you won’t have changed a thing.
Socratease on August 4, 2010 at 4:58 PM
Pray for the health of all on the Supreme Court.
publiuspen on August 4, 2010 at 4:58 PM
Yep, with the new one for and Kennedy the matchmaker.
Schadenfreude on August 4, 2010 at 4:58 PM
If it’s true that Prop 8 has been overturned, my faith in the justice system might increase a little. Gay marriage will be a reality in this country, just a matter of when.
JetBoy on August 4, 2010 at 4:58 PM
Vaughn Walker is a gay man.
There, I said it.
You know poltical correctness has run amok, when even conservatives are afraid to mention the fact that maybe a gay judge might be partial to gay marriage.
swamp_yankee on August 4, 2010 at 4:58 PM
Oh, so that’s why we need a Federal Marriage Amendment.
Kensington on August 4, 2010 at 4:59 PM
The people elected representatives that passed ObamaCare. It’s what the people want.
/ohwait
Abby Adams on August 4, 2010 at 4:59 PM
I live in California and this is not the first proposition we have voted on regarding gay marriage. The other was also shot down. So was our English only proposition and numerous others. One wonders why one should vote at all here.
sandee on August 4, 2010 at 4:59 PM
The left wouldn’t recognize tolerance if it fell off the future mosque, and knocked their skulls open.
Tolerance works both ways. I personally have other issues I find far more important right now, than this. But I don’t like that judges just step in, and stomp down the will of the people.
capejasmine on August 4, 2010 at 5:00 PM
When government will not listen to the will of the people there are several remedies. One of which is to change the goverment through the electorate. Failing that, it may be time for other means to be used. A liberal judge decided the people of California do not have the right to decide who to grant the privilege of marriage to is a clear violation of the 10th Amendment. Marriage is not a right but a privilege, licensed by states. You do not have to license a right.
Zelsdorf Ragshaft on August 4, 2010 at 5:00 PM
Appointed by George H.W. Bush and supposedly gay.
Mike Morrissey on August 4, 2010 at 5:00 PM
Amen
Aquateen Hungerforce on August 4, 2010 at 5:00 PM
But it does not prohibit heterosexuals marrying members of the sex they are attracted to, thus it is discriminatory.
If we prohibited heterosexuals from marrying members of the opposite sex but allowed homosexuals to marry members of the same sex, it would be the exact same as Prop 8.
Holger on August 4, 2010 at 5:01 PM
Why did this judge defy our president?
Mark1971 on August 4, 2010 at 5:01 PM
True. People tend to overlook how contentious liberal activism got in late 2004 when Gavin Newsom started shoving gay marriage down everyone’s throats in San Fran-sicko. Exit polls showed the #1 issue for Bush voters in his re-election was “moral values”. Honestly, I think it Newsom had kept his piehole shut and waited on the sidelines til 2005, Kerry might’ve pulled off the upset.
Now fast forward to this year and less than 3 months removed from the midterms and this idiot liberal judge(again in San Fran-psycho) throws even more fuel on the fire. You’ve already got conservatives and independents foaming at the mouth to teach the left-wing ruling class a lesson thanks to the disastrous economic policies that are destroying this nation. Firing up the social conservatives won’t help matters.
Doughboy on August 4, 2010 at 5:01 PM
This is another problem with the federal judiciary. How can one trial court judge have this much power? Shouldn’t at least a full circuit court of appeals be required to do this?
joeindc44 on August 4, 2010 at 5:01 PM
I am an evangelical Christian conservative with libertarian sympathies. I voted for Proposition 8 because I am personally against redefining marriage while fully expecting the Supremes to find the prohibition of gay marriage unconstitutional. There is an excellent strict constructionist argument for allowing gay marriage, but it better include protection for churches that refuse to perform those marriages.
Since I believe that a legal redefinition of marriage is inevitable, I favor removing marriage from the realm of the legal and replacing it with licensed civil agreements broad enough to include those who want to transfer legal rights reserved for family members to non-family members — for example, in cases of hospitalization and impending death. Traditional marriage ceremonies can continue to be offered by churches.
Terrie on August 4, 2010 at 5:02 PM
I defy anyone to show how there is discrimination here.
A gay man cannot marry another man.
A straight man cannot marry another man.
A gay man has just as much legal right to marry a woman as a straight man does.
EQUALITY!
Beo on August 4, 2010 at 5:02 PM
Wait a sec. The Judge is a gender conflicted and morally twisted Richard smoker and HE gets to decide the case? No possible conflict of interest in that decision is there? The asylum known as California really is run by the the most twisted insane administrators.
Guardian on August 4, 2010 at 5:02 PM
So.. if and when all these gay men and women want to get a divorce…. can I laugh when they have to return back to the state they were married in, as other States will not pass this “law”, and do the exact thing married couple have to do.. file a seperation and then get a divorce.
You guys and gals aren’t getting the idea… Divorce can suck. Sometimes marriage isn’t all it is cracked up to be.
And if I was gay but had the rights to have the same bennies as a married person already (alaska is like that) I would never have gotten married!
upinak on August 4, 2010 at 5:02 PM
One more reason for the Muslims to hate us…..
Just sayin.’
rockmom on August 4, 2010 at 5:02 PM
So it’s decided then.
Rights are whatever WE say they are at that point in time.
They are not inviolate, they are not steadfast, nor are they natural.
They’re just uber-laws.
Skywise on August 4, 2010 at 5:02 PM
I was against prop 8, but it had nothing to do with same sex marriage. SImply put, the purpose of a constitution is to limit GOVERNMENT’s power to do what it will, not the people’s power to do what they will. The constitution (state, federal, whatever) is OUR weapon against a government. To use it against actions taken by people, is to turn our sword on ourselves.
kurtzz3 on August 4, 2010 at 5:02 PM
Wow. Will stereotypes and stigmas have to be surgically removed? Being a lesbian in a mans body doesn’t feel weird, so I’ll say no.
midlander on August 4, 2010 at 5:03 PM
Never had a chance with that region. Just keep in mind, both the Arizona law and Prop 8 now go under the purview of the Ninth Circus. Expect, at the very least, a dismissal of any appeal on the august legal grounds of “I don’t give a damn.”
KingGold on August 4, 2010 at 5:03 PM
So we have a gay activist judge striking down democratically-adopted protections of marriage after attempting to intimidate one side of the case, only being stopped by SCOTUS.
What a great day for America!
Precisely.
amerpundit on August 4, 2010 at 5:03 PM
Once again, the voters of California have gotten the shaft. This happens over and over again. A number of Props that the voters voted in were overturned by leftists Federal Judge. This Judge lives in San Franciso, America’s answer to Sodom & Gomorrah, no surprise that he would rule like he did. He made up his made even before the hearing started. He just dragged it out. Would not surprise me if Federal Judges start overturning the elections of people to Office.
Elaine Kagan, no doubt how she will rule if gay cases come before her.
flintstone on August 4, 2010 at 5:03 PM
Nuts.
Keljeck on August 4, 2010 at 5:04 PM
How can you define a marriage between same-sexes? It makes no sense. Can they love each other, live together, build a family together. Science has made it so. This is what secularists have done. They have demanded that we use rote Darwinism to try to make animals akin to people, then tell us that because scientists can use their woowoo magical syringes to generate a “family” that cannot be generated in the wild to be akin to a “natural” family. They want their cake and eat it too PLUS they wanna shove the whole dang cake in the mouths of those who don’t agree with their world view so as to keep them from speaking out.
WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE ‘MARRIAGE’? Why??? Why are we turning ourselves inside out for <3% of the world population? Hasn't the Melissa Etheridge divorce taught anyone anything about this fact? The ONLY thing this will do is cause more confused toddlers and infants….AND A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY FOR JUDGES AND LAWYERS DOING THEIR CHURNING IN FAMILY AND DIVORCE COURTS. GAY MARRIAGE IS EVERY STATE'S COURTS WET DREAM!!! HAH!
Sultry Beauty on August 4, 2010 at 5:04 PM
Well, when there were laws preventing blacks and whites from marrying each other, they two applied equally to whites and blacks. So it’s still possible to claim discrimination.
As to the ruling, is it really surprising? The “will of the people” only matters when it coincides with the will of the political elites. This isn’t news.
Esthier on August 4, 2010 at 5:04 PM
Which is why Latinas have more understanding of law too. He understands the situation better than some heterosexual would.
Skywise on August 4, 2010 at 5:04 PM
You want a reason not to promote the homosexual lifestyle? How about the fact that gay men get HIV/AIDS at a rate 44 times that of other men. Talk about cognitive dissonance with the nation’s health care debate. Why not endorse children playing with guns as long as they wear bullet proof vests?
Blue Collar Todd on August 4, 2010 at 5:05 PM
Wait a second. Didn’t a judge just strike down the defense of marriage act, because it was a state issue?
Now, a state constitution after a popular election decides this state issue, but it gets overturned, wait for it, because it violates the Federal Constitution. I guess it’s not so much a state issue than is it?
Heads you win. Tails I lose.
Gotta Love Those Odds.
tommylotto on August 4, 2010 at 5:05 PM
Anyone surprised? ANYONE?
Not so much. You know how it is these days: you vote, they tell you OH WAIT, THAT DOESN’T COUNT.
Because in America, we don’t do self-government anymore: that’s so old-hat. No, these days we do TEH SMART PEOPLE KNOW BETTER THAN YOU DO, REDNECK!
Don’t get me wrong: I’m all in favor of upholding the Constitution. However, bad rulings have been made before, and I think we’re quickly seeing this go the way of Roe v. Wade: a ruling that is not, in fact, federal law is about to become so because of that unimpeachable aspect of law…. precedent.
Oh joy. Oh rapture. *hurl*
Animator Girl on August 4, 2010 at 5:05 PM
This is a non news story. The judge in this case is openly gay and his bias was evident from day 1. There was never any doubt what his ruling would be. Prop 8 is not overturned and this will certainly be stayed pending appeal.
Rocks on August 4, 2010 at 5:05 PM
Hetero marriage to be outlawed soon. Declared a Hate Marriage.
faraway on August 4, 2010 at 5:05 PM
Look on the bright side. This is yet another big gasoline bomb on the popular fire in advance of November.
Django on August 4, 2010 at 5:05 PM
That’s the best part of the ruling.
Esthier on August 4, 2010 at 5:05 PM
So the $64,000,000 question is, since obama says he supports DOMA, Does that mean the Feds will sue California for stepping on the feds toes Ala Arizona, or will they vote present like they are doing with the mosque at Ground Zero.
ConservativePartyNow on August 4, 2010 at 5:06 PM
chrissy’s leg is tingling…
cmsinaz on August 4, 2010 at 5:06 PM
If gays can marry, can I use incandescent light bulbs after 2012?
AshleyTKing on August 4, 2010 at 5:06 PM
You have the right to butt sex and killing babies in your womb but not cigarettes or McDonalds.
Skywise on August 4, 2010 at 5:06 PM
And no right to light bulbs either.
Skywise on August 4, 2010 at 5:07 PM
Oooo. You suggest that they backed themselves into a corner. I like it. More please.
Animator Girl on August 4, 2010 at 5:07 PM
aka the Teabag Ruling
faraway on August 4, 2010 at 5:07 PM
the party of bedroom police…
via joan walsh on hardball…
cmsinaz on August 4, 2010 at 5:07 PM
In other news, Judge Vaughn Walker proclaims B. H. obama Emperor of the United States and dictator in perpetuity.
runner on August 4, 2010 at 5:07 PM
How about the perpetuation of the species? Is that rational enough for you?
tommylotto on August 4, 2010 at 5:07 PM
Well too many hetero’s get married and its good to promote social equality and justice if they marry those of the same sex to help increase and promote diversity.
Skywise on August 4, 2010 at 5:08 PM
I agree. As it’s going now, you are right. It will be a reality, eventually. However, the fact that it doesn’t bother you that a state of people voted to make it illegal, gets trounced on by a fed judge, who mind you is gay, and obviously a proponent of gay marriage. The mere fact that he deems it unconstitutional, doesn’t make it fact. Thousands voted, and are once again, denied their vote.
This is a country where the will of the people means squat now. I hope you remember this, when something you’re for, or against gets trounced on. Will you be so logical, and reasonable, and “tolerant”?
capejasmine on August 4, 2010 at 5:08 PM
OK, but hetero’s have a higher rate of STDs than l*sbians, so if we’re using that as a basis, only women should be allowed to get married.
Esthier on August 4, 2010 at 5:08 PM
And no his name isn’t Souter. Boy 41 could really pick ‘em couldn’t he?
Rocks on August 4, 2010 at 5:08 PM
Richard smoker
heh!
thomasaur on August 4, 2010 at 5:08 PM
wow…
cmsinaz on August 4, 2010 at 5:08 PM
Personally, I think judges should decide the outcome of ALL elections from now on in order to properly guide the knuckle-dragging half humans who are the electorate. It’s for the best.
Django on August 4, 2010 at 5:09 PM
Given the judge, NO ONE is surprised.
GarandFan on August 4, 2010 at 5:09 PM
The citizens of a state do not have the constitutional right to draft their own constitution.
seven on August 4, 2010 at 5:09 PM
Judicial activism at its worst.
oakland on August 4, 2010 at 5:09 PM
ROFL!!!
I wonder if he, and Keith are picking out a china pattern now?
capejasmine on August 4, 2010 at 5:10 PM
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