Dems try out ObamaCare repeal — in part

posted at 2:55 pm on July 30, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

Repeal Fever sweeps Washington!  With Republicans surging in momentum in part based on the promised repeal of ObamaCare, a few House Democrats have decided to take a test drive on at least one part of the sweeping overhaul.  Small businesses have screamed about the burden of the requirement to file 1099s on all business-to-business transactions over $600, and with the GOP also successfully painting Democrats as anti-business, Democrats want to rid themselves of the issue:

For the first time, House Democrats are proposing repealing a piece of the health care overhaul, one that small businesses have been warning is going to be overly burdensome.

The move comes just four months after the Democrats’ health plan passed in March. The provision would have required businesses to file 1099 tax forms for all transactions with vendors that total over $600.

Due for implementation in 2012, it would have raised $19 billion over 10 years to pay for the health care overhaul.

Rep. Scott Murphy (D-NY) offered the bill on Friday morning. Ways and Means Chairman Sander Levin (D-Mich.), spoke in favor of the bill on the House floor Friday.

Gee, you know what might have solved this problem in the first place?  Knowing what the hell was in the bill before voting for it. If Democrats who crafted this portion of the bill had any experience in the private sector, especially in small business, they would have immediately recognized it for the disaster it will become, once in effect.

When the GOP says that Democrats are anti-business, this is precisely what it means.  They wanted to get $19 billion from businesses to pay for their social engineering, and they didn’t care at all how they gleaned it.

The next question will be how Democrats will pay for the repeal.  According to their pay-go rule, any cut in revenue has to be matched either with a commensurate increase elsewhere or by an equal spending cut.  Otherwise, they not only violate the very rule that Democrats cheered on its passage in February, they also push ObamaCare into a deficit producer, even in their skewed calculations without the doctor-fix they passed in June.

Hopefully, this section gets repealed quickly.  That should start some momentum for repealing the rest of it.

Update: Dems, not Dens.  Or maybe it was Dens of Dems.  Or something.  Sorry about that!


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Dens?

LastRick on July 30, 2010 at 2:57 PM

Dems or Dens!!

canopfor on July 30, 2010 at 2:57 PM

Dens

Hens

portlandon on July 30, 2010 at 2:58 PM

Dens, Ed is a rabid anti-densite.

lorien1973 on July 30, 2010 at 2:58 PM

Den of thieves…

psrch on July 30, 2010 at 2:58 PM

They wanted to get $19 billion from businesses to pay for their social engineering, and they didn’t care at all how they gleaned it.

Um. Businesses don’t pay this tax. It would be owed by the people who bought the thing. Not the one who sold it.

lorien1973 on July 30, 2010 at 3:00 PM

Don’t fall for it. Repeal the entire diaper full, not just select parts.

Wine_N_Dine on July 30, 2010 at 3:00 PM

Those pesky Denocrats! Will they stop at mothing?

EnglishMike on July 30, 2010 at 3:02 PM

No Surprise.

There is a reason the Dems passed a 2300 page bill.

Let’s just call it Lawyer’s Euphoria, if you get my drift.

It’s a gold mine.

fogw on July 30, 2010 at 3:02 PM

Dens of wolves = Dems

Vaporman87 on July 30, 2010 at 3:02 PM

For the first time, House Democrats are proposing repealing a piece of the health care overhaul,one that small businesses have been warning is going to be overly burdensome.
====================

While there at it,they can save everyone the grief,and purge,er,Repeal themselves!!

canopfor on July 30, 2010 at 3:02 PM

The next question will be how Democrats will pay for the repeal.

Stop using separate airplanes for dogs (including Pelosi).

Jocundus on July 30, 2010 at 3:03 PM

Dens are where Dems live.

dczombie on July 30, 2010 at 3:03 PM

Dems: “Hey, how the hell did that bad part get in there? Don’t worry America, it’s Bush’s fault.”

BobMbx on July 30, 2010 at 3:04 PM

Barry eats alone.

BHO Jonestown on July 30, 2010 at 3:05 PM

Um. Businesses don’t pay this tax. It would be owed by the people who bought the thing. Not the one who sold it.

lorien1973 on July 30, 2010 at 3:00 PM

all business-to-business transactions over $600

sure they do. and it was designed that way. It’s basically the government wanting to ‘wet its beak’ in just about every b-to-b transaction.

negentropy on July 30, 2010 at 3:05 PM

BobMbx on July 30, 2010 at 3:04 PM

Hoyer did blow the lid off a Bush era tax conspiracy.

lorien1973 on July 30, 2010 at 3:06 PM

The next question will be how Democrats will pay for the repeal. According to their pay-go rule, any cut in revenue has to be matched either with a commensurate increase elsewhere or by an equal spending cut.

Easy. Repeat after me:

IT’S AN EMERGENCY!!!

Joe Caps on July 30, 2010 at 3:06 PM

negentropy on July 30, 2010 at 3:05 PM

The costs would just be passed on to consumers. Businesses ain’t gonna take that hit. It’s a silent tax increase to end users.

But what’s really unusual, to me, is that any incorporated businesses just chuck 1099′s in the trash. They don’t need them for anything, cuz they have to file properly. That’s what was weird to me…the extra paperwork is simply un-necessary.

But I also thought this applied to -any- purchase over $600, not just B2B. I thought B2C purchases also needed a 1099 as well. So you couldn’t buy that $600 widget on ebay and not pay taxes on it.

lorien1973 on July 30, 2010 at 3:08 PM

Is that like Boy Scout dens? At least we’d get more competence than the Dems…

KeepOhioRed on July 30, 2010 at 3:09 PM

Denocrats: Dems in denial.

pseudonominus on July 30, 2010 at 3:09 PM

“Den’t” be fooled, this is Kabuki election year theatre. Futher in the article:

House Democrats postponed the vote over worry that the Republican amendment, a motion to recommit by Rep. Dave Camp (Mich.) would pass and make it look like they had made headway, albeit in a small way, in their repeal movement.

Brat on July 30, 2010 at 3:09 PM

The next question will be how Democrats will pay for the repeal. According to their pay-go rule, any cut in revenue has to be matched either with a commensurate increase elsewhere or by an equal spending cut.

Easy. The elimination of BILLIONS of extra 1099′s will save IRS manpower and document storage. Do we really need to send Office Depot and the Utility company a 1099?

barnone on July 30, 2010 at 3:11 PM

There`s a crack, put a wedge in it and keep pressing `til the whole thing crumbles.

ThePrez on July 30, 2010 at 3:11 PM

If Democrats who crafted this portion of the bill had any experience in the private sector

They obviously don’t. Their idea of an independent businessman is some fat guy in an expensive suit sitting in a plush office, lighting his cigar with a burning $100 bill, while the poor plebes on the factory floor live in poverty.

Hey, I just described your typical democrat!

CurtZHP on July 30, 2010 at 3:12 PM

Seriously…every time you guys use one of these pictures with the ‘Big 3′ all together grinning like the idiots they are…I want to puke.

BigWyo on July 30, 2010 at 3:12 PM

According to their pay-go rule…..

ROTFLMAO.

rickyricardo on July 30, 2010 at 3:12 PM

Dens is a common misspelling of Dense as in The Dense who passed this thing are responding to a cattleprodding. It takes a great deal to get through to the dense.

KW64 on July 30, 2010 at 3:13 PM

Do we really need to send Office Depot and the Utility company a 1099?

barnone on July 30, 2010 at 3:11 PM

You don’t now, do you? If the company is incorporated, you don’t send them a 1099. This thing’s main target was sole proprietorships most likely – the businesses who aren’t incorporated but have a sales tax number and tend to hide behind that to avoid taxes on non-business related purchases.

Not that I know anything about that. Of course.

lorien1973 on July 30, 2010 at 3:14 PM

lorien1973 on July 30, 2010 at 3:06 PM

It is bizarre, isn’t it.

BobMbx on July 30, 2010 at 3:15 PM

The Democrats want to RUN ON HEALTHCARE so let it STAY AS IT IS so they can RUN ON HOW WONDERFUL IT IS.

They break it.

They bought it.

They own the issue.

Make it stick to them and give them NO outs on any part of it.

ajacksonian on July 30, 2010 at 3:16 PM

Obamacare: Still not as bad as waiting in line at the DMV.

Colbyjack on July 30, 2010 at 3:17 PM

ajacksonian on July 30, 2010 at 3:16 PM

Right on! Whenever these weasels suggest any such thing as repeal of Zerocare or tax cuts, the Republicans should immediately oppose any such measure. Let the left explain to us why their previously stated position is suddenly wrong.

CurtZHP on July 30, 2010 at 3:19 PM

O/t
===

Democrat blows a fuse,er,gasket on the floor!
======================================

Rep. Anthony Weiner Loses it on House Floor

http://www.breitbart.tv/rep-anthony-weiner-loses-it-on-house-floor/

canopfor on July 30, 2010 at 3:22 PM

What an unbelievable political advertising opportunity for Republicans.

Will they exploit it?

Are you kidding?

rrpjr on July 30, 2010 at 3:22 PM

over $600

Note to self. Don’t buy anything over $600 ever again.

angryed on July 30, 2010 at 3:25 PM

I wonder if the reason given for stopping the Arizona illegal immigration law (undue hardship in implementation) could have been used to cancel out the 10999 idiocy.

sabbahillel on July 30, 2010 at 3:25 PM

Dems = Looters

yubley on July 30, 2010 at 3:26 PM

Right on! Whenever these weasels suggest any such thing as repeal of Zerocare or tax cuts, the Republicans should immediately oppose any such measure. Let the left explain to us why their previously stated position is suddenly wrong.

CurtZHP on July 30, 2010 at 3:19 PM

I disagree. If you opponent now agrees with you, you can gain much from capitalizing on that.

Those Democrats who voted for Obamacare, and don’t vote for the repeal of the excessively burdensome 1099 section, are easily painted as anti small business. Once this is repealed, then your point is proven, that Obamacare is a train wreck, and then you move on and keep killing it by cutting off small limbs of it.

Snake307 on July 30, 2010 at 3:29 PM

Dems = Looters

yubley on July 30, 2010 at 3:26 PM

yubley:Yup!

canopfor on July 30, 2010 at 3:29 PM

Barry eats alone.

BHO Jonestown on July 30, 2010 at 3:05 PM

LOL I saw that in the NY Post. What an arrogant SOB. “You can give me your money, but I refuse to dine with swine”.

Key West Reader on July 30, 2010 at 3:30 PM

Is that like Boy Scout dens? At least we’d get more competence than the Dems…

KeepOhioRed on July 30, 2010 at 3:09 PM

As I recall “dens” were only in Cub Scouts. Although a Boy Scout is a “Den Chief”.

And O’bama never liked the Boy Scouts anyway. See his snub of them earlier this week on their 100th Anniversary.

Del Dolemonte on July 30, 2010 at 3:30 PM

Rep. Anthony Weiner Loses it on House Floor

http://www.breitbart.tv/rep-anthony-weiner-loses-it-on-house-floor/

canopfor on July 30, 2010 at 3:22 PM

hahahahhaha
His brand new muslim wife found out that he really is a weiner…and now he is mad…mad I tell ya

macncheez on July 30, 2010 at 3:30 PM

Obamacare: Still not as bad as waiting in line at the DMV.

Colbyjack on July 30, 2010 at 3:17 PM

Thats only because the ObamaCare offices aren’t open yet. ;)

BobMbx on July 30, 2010 at 3:30 PM

The 1099 issue is nothing more than a bail out/prop up for the United States Postal Service. Anyone notice the price of stamps is rising? Gotta prop up them Unions!

Key West Reader on July 30, 2010 at 3:32 PM

This is what happens when a den of mongrels writes your legislation.

Lily on July 30, 2010 at 3:32 PM

Otherwise, they not only violate the very rule that Democrats cheered on its passage in February, they also push ObamaCare into a deficit producer,

They have never followed pay go and it has always been a deficit producer. Why would they care now?

bluemarlin on July 30, 2010 at 3:33 PM

FTA: Due for implementation in 2012, it would have raised $19 billion over 10 years to pay for the health care overhaul.

I don’t get this, it’s not a new type of tax is it? Isn’t this revenue from taxes that they are assuming taxpayers have been able to evade until now?

slickwillie2001 on July 30, 2010 at 3:33 PM

Barry eats alone.

BHO Jonestown on July 30, 2010 at 3:05 PM

Barry chain smokes alone.

fogw on July 30, 2010 at 3:34 PM

And the DOW takes a cynical tick upward.

AubieJon on July 30, 2010 at 3:35 PM

canopfor on July 30, 2010 at 3:22 PM
====================
hahahahhaha
His brand new muslim wife found out that he really is a weiner…and now he is mad…mad I tell ya

macncheez on July 30, 2010 at 3:30 PM

macncheez:That was a hoot,I fired it off to H/A Tips!

I’m listening to Hannity,he played the clip!
hahah:)

canopfor on July 30, 2010 at 3:37 PM

Barry chain smokes alone.

fogw on July 30, 2010 at 3:34 PM

And he snorts alone, too.

Key West Reader on July 30, 2010 at 3:38 PM

Okay, now repeal the mandate.

Skywise on July 30, 2010 at 3:38 PM

Barry eats alone.

BHO Jonestown on July 30, 2010 at 3:05 PM
============
Barry chain smokes alone.

fogw on July 30, 2010 at 3:34 PM
================

fogw: Michelle vacations alone!!

canopfor on July 30, 2010 at 3:41 PM

Do we really need to send Office Depot and the Utility company a 1099?

barnone on July 30, 2010 at 3:11 PM

You don’t now, do you? If the company is incorporated, you don’t send them a 1099. This thing’s main target was sole proprietorships most likely – the businesses who aren’t incorporated but have a sales tax number and tend to hide behind that to avoid taxes on non-business related purchases.

Not that I know anything about that. Of course.

lorien1973 on July 30, 2010 at 3:14 PM

As a small business owner, I am pretty average in that we probably send out less than 10 1099s per year, typically to individuals that act as an independent contractor for some type of service. As you state, there is no requirement to send out this information to incorporated entities or overseas companies.

This rule would increase the number of filings for my business to probably 500-1000 suppliers–anyone that we paid more than $600. We would also receive them from all our customers–truckers, office supplies, raw materials, labor, travel, etc.

So would the government then use this info to cross reference our tax returns with the anticipated income based on all these 1099s? Probably not. So this is just a lot of useless reporting.

And sure, we would try to pass the costs along to our customers, but at the end of the day we have to be competitive. If a competitor doesn’t pass along the cost, then we can’t. I’m sure the same is true of all small businesses.

Finally, a lot of small businesses aren’t extremely organized and they’ll have a very difficult time getting this info together.

phillypolitics on July 30, 2010 at 3:45 PM

Democrats Introduce 12,000-Page Bill to Solve Problems Caused by Previously-Passed 2,500-Page Bill

Mervis Winter on July 30, 2010 at 3:43 PM

Mervis Winter: Good lord,the look on Nancys face,haha!!:)

canopfor on July 30, 2010 at 3:48 PM

When the GOP says that Democrats are anti-business, this is precisely what it means. They wanted to get $19 billion from businesses to pay for their social engineering, and they didn’t care at all how they gleaned it.

Someone please tell me where Dems got this ridiculous figure in the first place. How could they ever begin to estimate such a figure? It sounds like a corollary to “jobs saved.”

BuckeyeSam on July 30, 2010 at 3:53 PM

Finally, a lot of small businesses aren’t extremely organized and they’ll have a very difficult time getting this info together.

phillypolitics on July 30, 2010 at 3:45 PM

If your business is a local one, cash is king. Green backs and money orders.

Me to Nazi Interogator IRS auditor: “Whats that? What income are you talking about? Cash receipts….uh…yeah, $874.39 for the year, just like the form says.”

BobMbx on July 30, 2010 at 3:55 PM

Gee, you know what might have solved this problem in the first place? Knowing what the hell was in the bill before voting for it.

To paraphrase Rep John Conyers; “You know, I just love these bloggers who say ‘read the bill’. . .

listens2glenn on July 30, 2010 at 4:00 PM

Don’t fall for it. Repeal the entire diaper full, not just select parts.

Wine_N_Dine on July 30, 2010 at 3:00 PM

If the “Dens” are willing to repeal at least this part of the ObamaCare monstrosity, let’s join them on it for now.

Then try to repeal the rest with fewer Dens.

Steve Z on July 30, 2010 at 4:00 PM

phillypolitics on July 30, 2010 at 3:45 PM

Well, you just gotta be proactive, I guess. Get Sales tax ID’s from any vendor you’ll do a lot of business with.

The real problem comes from the term “independent contractor” – this could, realistically, be read as any customer of yours. You don’t know what they’ll use it for. Independent contractors are generally one time uses you buy something from or buy something from you. That’s where it could get messy. And that’s why I think it’s aimed at SP’s and B2C sales as well.

lorien1973 on July 30, 2010 at 4:05 PM

To paraphrase Ms. Pelosi, We have to pass the bill so we can find out why we have to repeal it.

GreenBlade on July 30, 2010 at 4:09 PM

The Republicans should not go alone with this piece meal repeal BS and let the Dems wallow in it. Full repeal or nothing!

Vigilante on July 30, 2010 at 4:13 PM

Barry eats alone.

BHO Jonestown on July 30, 2010 at 3:05 PM

A Narcissist is always his own best friend.

Other people are totally unnecessary…except to hold Barry’s mirror for him…

landlines on July 30, 2010 at 4:15 PM

The next question will be how Democrats will pay for the repeal.

Easy. THEY WON’T!

The cost numbers they’ve post are bogus anyway. What’s ANOTHER 19 BILLION.

GarandFan on July 30, 2010 at 4:20 PM

Snake307 on July 30, 2010 at 3:29 PM

Once you start ‘tweaking’ legislation that is passed you are tacitly accepting it as ONLY needing tweaking… no matter what you say it is what you do that matters. When you work at the edges and you say the entire thing is bad, by working at the edges you are no longer spending your time going after the entire thing… you no longer mean what you say.

If you say it is all bad, then it is all bad.

You do not try to ‘tweak’ it to make it ‘less bad’.

By not doing contrary to what you say, your point is upheld while your opponents, who have tried to paint this thing as all rosy and wonderful, now find that it is muck covered and no matter how much muck you clean off a muck pile it is all muck.

Do as you say.

Say what you mean.

Mean what you do.

When you do contrary you have lost your position and your ability to stand for it. This is how Democrats keep on getting more and more power accrued to government: they keep on eroding the moral stance and Republicans do not have the ethics to keep the stance up, come what may. It may not be ‘good politics’ but this was passed with very, very bad politics and it is not cured by small changes that endorse bad policy from that political stance. Remember it was the Democrats who passed this along purely partisan lines. They drew the line in the sand, they wanted this they can have it.

ajacksonian on July 30, 2010 at 4:20 PM

Dens

Ed meant deniars.

Schadenfreude on July 30, 2010 at 4:45 PM

Offering up this bill to vacate that small element of the law described is the equivalent of the obese man in Monty Python’s “The Meaning of Life” foregoing the ‘wafer thin mint’.

thirtypundit on July 30, 2010 at 4:57 PM

If you file paper 1099s the ‘A’ copies must all be machine readable by the IRS, starting with the first one. The allowance for the first 50 copies to be hand-written has been dropped. Machine-readable forms are now always required (Pub 1220 page 5). You must use a special MICR encoded blank 1099 form that the IRS will ship to you that they can optically read. You cannot print the 1099 PDFs from the IRS website and type/write in the boxes – they will be refused. If the form cannot be optically read there is a fine of $50 per 1099. See http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1220.pdf.

You have to contact the IRS and ask them to ship you the required number of blank 1099s that have the red-letter MICR printing. You have to feed these blanks into your printer and carefully align the empty text-boxes with your printer. Last year it took me more over an hour of fiddling to get it right.

Joy!

Gideon7 on July 30, 2010 at 5:42 PM

I don’t see how this provision would raise $19 billion. All it would do is require small businesses like mine to issue 1099s to every company we do more than a total of $600 business with within a year. It’s idiotic and would be very burdensome, (how do you get EINs from the supply store, utility companies, Dell computer etc?) but i don’t see the revenue side of it. Were they using pie in the sky stimulus style accounting again? Maybe they thought all of these ridiculous 1099 forms would cut down on fraud in the amount of $19 billion? Sounds like a bunch of bunk from a pack of liars who don’t know the first thing about running a business.

forest on July 30, 2010 at 6:18 PM

ajacksonian on July 30, 2010 at 4:20 PM

I agree. Republicans should not help the Democrats “fix” this POS. Make them eat it this bill that they crammed through. I’m a small business guy, and I’d be willing to put up with the 1099s a couple of years if it helped do away with the law and Democrat power in general in the long run.

forest on July 30, 2010 at 6:24 PM

I have always been at a loss to explain how this provision raises over $19 billion. Are they suggesting that until now corporations have been in the habit of underreporting their gross sales figures to this extent? Is that why businesses incorporate, to avoid 1099′s? What the heck is going on at the IRS if cheating of this magnitude in just this one area has been going on all these years?

SukieTawdry on July 30, 2010 at 11:48 PM

Gee, you know what might have solved this problem in the first place? Knowing what the hell was in the bill before voting for it.

Preach it, brother!

It’s nice to see you get a little worked up, Ed. I’ve been that way for a while now.

hillbillyjim on July 31, 2010 at 1:31 AM