Video: University makes diploma contingent on supporting gay rights?
posted at 3:35 pm on July 28, 2010 by Ed Morrissey
CNN has an interesting roundtable on the case of Jennifer Keeton, who has sued Augusta State University to keep from getting expelled for not repudiating her statements about homosexuality. Keeton expressed her biblical perspective on the subject in and out of class while working toward a degree in counseling, and the school mandated a “remediation plan” that appears to have required her to renounce her Christian doctrine in order to gain a diploma from the school. The school has responded that a bias against homosexuality would disqualify Keeton from certification, a position that would put most Christians in Keeton’s position.
Does this amount to a “thought police”? A religious test for education? Or does Keeton’s lack of diversity appreciation really make her unqualified for a degree and career in counseling?
It sounds to me like the ACA wants a “don’t ask, don’t tell” rule for religion. That runs square into the First Amendment, especially for a state-run school. The ACA’s idea of who comes first doesn’t get to trump the restriction on freedom of religious exercise. If clients get off-put by Keeton’s approach to counseling, they can look for another counselor. Now, the ACA can decide not to certify her; as a private organization, they have that prerogative. If they do that explicitly based on her religious belief, however, they may have a problem with that in court, especially as it will block Keeton’s ability to make a living.
The state-run school has no such leeway. They cannot impose a religious test for graduation, no matter how they dress it up.
Blowback
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Amen
Rocks on July 28, 2010 at 3:38 PM
and so it begins…again.
toenail on July 28, 2010 at 3:39 PM
What if her first name was Fatima instead of Jennifer and held the same belief?
kurtzz3 on July 28, 2010 at 3:40 PM
I’m sure the ACA would not allow a Muslim counselor say such things, either…
hawksruleva on July 28, 2010 at 3:40 PM
More double standards coming from the supposed “protectors of Free speech” in Academia.
Well this will be interesting when put forward against Muslims who actually hang people for being homosexual.
Baxter Greene on July 28, 2010 at 3:40 PM
Heard Boortz on this today. He was dead wrong. He dared anybody to explain to him how homosexuality is a choice.
It’s easy.
Homosexuality is defined by the act. A man does not become a homosexual until the moment he willfully engages in homosexual activities with another man. Period. That’s a CHOICE.
A man is not gay because he loves another man; he’s only gay when he puts his @#^$%* in that other man’s @*$$. If that’s not a choice, then it’s rape, and that’s another matter altogether.
Beo on July 28, 2010 at 3:41 PM
they’ll continue, until the uproar, and then issue a “clarification”. typical liberal BS. push it for all it’s worth until the masses rise up, then claim it was taken out of context or a misunderstanding.
bleckkk:(
sandlin71 on July 28, 2010 at 3:41 PM
Her lack of diversity appreciation would likely get her banned at HotAir.
faraway on July 28, 2010 at 3:43 PM
Augusta State University is 110% wrong is saying they will expel this student unless she changes her views on homosexuality.
This is indeed a classic case of thought police mentality trying to force a POV on someone who happens to not only disagree with it, but has the strength of character take a definitive stand against it!
And anyone who possesses this strength of character should be applauded, not condemned!
pilamaye on July 28, 2010 at 3:44 PM
Remediation training: Room 101 in Big Brother Hall across from Ministry of Truth Headquarters.
ted c on July 28, 2010 at 3:44 PM
This is just the current front of the plan to exert government power to control what you can say, do, or think. Watch what they do with healthcare control.
1984 is a warning to conservatives and a guide book for liberals.
GardenGnome on July 28, 2010 at 3:44 PM
This is very simple. Leftists think all us Christianists are retarded anyway. So, think of her as disabled, and give her the diploma under the ADA.
w3bgrrl on July 28, 2010 at 3:44 PM
Apparently, they can……
SouthernRoots on July 28, 2010 at 3:45 PM
Live by public money, die by it, libs. No discrimination in places that receive public money. THAT’S THE LAW.
I know that stings, becuase you can’t just “get whitey” or “get Christians” whenever you feel like it, but that’s life.
Good Lt on July 28, 2010 at 3:45 PM
This school and her professors are about to run up against reality…I know academia and reality have nothing in common but these guys are about to be introduced.
d1carter on July 28, 2010 at 3:46 PM
Ed, it was reported earlier today that a case just like this at Eastern Michigan was ruled in favor of the school, against a student seeking her counseling degree and to be certified by the ACA.
AubieJon on July 28, 2010 at 3:46 PM
Silly rabbit. Laws are for the little people. When you are liberal and pure of heart you can do anything you want!
sharrukin on July 28, 2010 at 3:47 PM
I would sue the hell out of ASU.
madmonkphotog on July 28, 2010 at 3:47 PM
typical….the “progressives” are always so tolerant of other people’s views.
search4truth on July 28, 2010 at 3:47 PM
If the University does not award the degree, can she then sue the University for all the costs she has incurred seeking that degree?
PrettyD_Vicious on July 28, 2010 at 3:47 PM
Sorry, instead of ruling for EMU, the case was dismissed. Amounts to the same thing.
AubieJon on July 28, 2010 at 3:48 PM
This eventually leads to an outlawing Christianity. This must be stopped. This is how Germany eventually killed millions of Jews. It started small and over years people got used to treating Jews progressively worse until violence against them was “normal”.
darwin on July 28, 2010 at 3:49 PM
Read this and weep
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_15581361?nclick_check=1
macncheez on July 28, 2010 at 3:49 PM
There’s a distinction between a homosexual orientation, which I believe has pretty good evidence for a genetic tendency (in males in particular), and homosexual activity. The Catholic Church, for example, does not consider homosexual orientation sinful, but does consider the act sinful, just as it does heterosexual sex outside of marriage.
mikeyboss on July 28, 2010 at 3:49 PM
Another reasont o enroll in University of Phoenix.
The Dean on July 28, 2010 at 3:51 PM
Subvert the dominant academic paradigm.
Little Boomer on July 28, 2010 at 3:51 PM
Medved: “You idiots with your silly ‘take our country back’ slogans.”
faraway on July 28, 2010 at 3:52 PM
I disagree. Homosexuality is defined by the attraction to or desire for the same sex. Look it up in a dictionary.
This is no more a choice than your attraction to the opposite sex (if you are heterosexual). Can you just ‘stop’ being attracted to the opposite sex? Is it an addiction if you can’t? Perhaps its due to your upbringing and societal acceptance? No? Then its not a choice.
Geministorm on July 28, 2010 at 3:52 PM
This is a no-brainer. The University is going to lose, and lose big.
neoavatara on July 28, 2010 at 3:52 PM
No, really there isn’t pretty good evidence of it. In fact there’s none.
Rocks on July 28, 2010 at 3:53 PM
I’ve looked into this and I disagree.
mikeyboss on July 28, 2010 at 3:54 PM
Making her renounce her views on homosexuality is a pretty much open and shut violation of her First Amendment rights (at least I hope so, for the sake of this country).
Requiring sensitivity training and reading and written assignments on the subject of homosexuality are not in and of themselves violative of her First Amendment rights.
Nevertheless, the fact that she is being singled-out for such extra work as a “remediation program” on the basis of her religious beliefs probably violates her First Amendment rights.
Doodad Pro on July 28, 2010 at 3:55 PM
I have no faith in our judicial system these days.
darwin on July 28, 2010 at 3:55 PM
So not letting her get her diploma promotes what?
tomas on July 28, 2010 at 3:56 PM
Well, considering gays have a significantly higher suicide rate, having the school counselor back up their negative feelings about themselves might not be the best idea.
It's Vintage, Duh on July 28, 2010 at 3:56 PM
Refund her money and decline to give her a degree. Presto!
Aquateen Hungerforce on July 28, 2010 at 3:57 PM
Obama’s America: Christianity is hate speech
faraway on July 28, 2010 at 3:57 PM
How myopic.
While I might disagree with acting on certain predilections, I’m certain that most gay friends of mine have carried those leanings/characteristics since birth. Some environmental factors might contribute in some cases but most do not choose how or who they’re attracted to.
Furthermore, as a rape victim, I’m appalled by your comparison of a consensual sex act and sex forced on an unwilling participant. That’s…actually pretty despicable.
Bee on July 28, 2010 at 3:57 PM
People can be attracted to all sorts of things. Dogs, their sister, or their brothers wife. That doesn’t legitimize it.
sharrukin on July 28, 2010 at 3:57 PM
There is a four part column on Town hall about a similar situation. http://townhall.com/Columnists/MikeAdams/2007/08/27/of_mice_and_mormons
Excerpt
PrezHussein on July 28, 2010 at 3:58 PM
Disagreement isn’t evidence. They mapped the genome, there’s no gay gene. Sexual orientation, straight or not, is not genetic.
Rocks on July 28, 2010 at 3:58 PM
heh. she might get a parking pass for the front row too! bonus
ted c on July 28, 2010 at 3:58 PM
As much as I think this chick is a dolt who doesn’t truly know the Christian views on homosexuality, this is a state school…and they should not be making her do all this to stay. If she sues, I truly hope she wins. She’s right.
A gay pride parade…THAT’S supposed to help?!?
JetBoy on July 28, 2010 at 4:00 PM
This is thought police brutality. Why not just give her a nice armband to go with her new way of thinking?
The Race Card on July 28, 2010 at 4:01 PM
Christianity is now “deviant” behavior.
faraway on July 28, 2010 at 4:02 PM
Hmmm…if that’s the case, then…well I take it back. She’s wrong.
JetBoy on July 28, 2010 at 4:03 PM
Of course not. Only those that don’t agree with ours.
jeanie on July 28, 2010 at 4:03 PM
You misunderstand. I wasn’t legitimizing anything, I was disagreeing that the sexual act is what defines someone as homosexual. In fact, someone might remain a virgin their entire life and still be a homosexual or a heterosexual.
Geministorm on July 28, 2010 at 4:03 PM
The lack of a “gay gene” does not mean there is no genetic tendency, which is what I said originally. There are many conditions for which a single gene has not been identified, but which clearly have evidence for inherited predisposition. I suspect there is, as in many cases, a role of both genetics and environment. But I doubt that every gay person has chosen to be so.
mikeyboss on July 28, 2010 at 4:03 PM
Look, the ACA needs to protect all of you morons from someone who might give you hurties on your feelings. Simpletons. Now shut up and do as you’re told.
Aquateen Hungerforce on July 28, 2010 at 4:04 PM
She should of course win, but the rhetorical questions I’m left to ask are:
1) Why did she think she was going to get an education that would be compatible with her biblical perspective from this school in the first place?
2) Of what value should a degree from this school be among christians?
Sadly, there are two incompatible answers to BOTH of these questions.
shick on July 28, 2010 at 4:04 PM
If she’s going to cause someone to spiral into depression and possibly suicide, she has no business counselling anyone outside of her church.
TedInATL on July 28, 2010 at 4:05 PM
So, a student that prances around nude in a gay pride parade in front of grandmas and little kids, would be welcome in the school’s program?
faraway on July 28, 2010 at 4:05 PM
Not just Christians – Muslims too … and THAT is why this won’t stand.
HondaV65 on July 28, 2010 at 4:08 PM
A positive aspect of Obama and the Dems controlling the Executive and Legislative branches is how the would be tyrants have been emboldened. Almost daily some leftist horse’s @$$ says or does something that exposes the “Liberals” as being opposed to the freedoms established in the Constitution. The majority of the public already is, or will get, wise to who the Dems really are now. Stupid attempts at tyranny like this just fuel the tsunami that’s coming and adds recruits to our side. Viva stupid libs … until 2012.
JimP on July 28, 2010 at 4:09 PM
In the same vein, some gays display outright hatred and hostility towards Christians (although not Muslims though, strange … Muslims kill gays).
Anyway, should a gay student have to undergo “sensitivity” training? Maybe attend a church and spend more time with Christians? Afterall, counselors are expect not to judge their clients, beliefs or behaviors.
darwin on July 28, 2010 at 4:09 PM
I’m not sure about this one way or the other, but I do know that homosexual activity is always a choice. Alcoholis will tell you they are born that way but the decision to take that first drink is always a choice. Pederasts will tell you they were born that way but it’s their choice to molest a child. Compulsive arsonists (“firebugs”) will tell you they were born that way but arson is always a choice. One can’t excuse sinful acts by saying they were born with the desire to commit them. The Apostle Paul was aware of a homosexual orientation, he called it “vile affections”. But he was clear that such behavior is still a grave sin.
tommyboy on July 28, 2010 at 4:10 PM
Unless Keeton is refusing to see homosexual clients, this is not the same thing. She’s being removed for simply expressing her beliefs.
CDeb on July 28, 2010 at 4:10 PM
idiot
blatantblue on July 28, 2010 at 4:11 PM
Not even close. How do you repay the time, effort and material produced by the student? If I was going for my degree and was denied a diploma just prior to graduation for anything other than academic reasons, I’d sue for a lifetime’s worth of expected income. It would actually be easier for the school to just give her a degree in something more general (philosophy, poly sci, etc.) and be done with the whole thing quickly and quietly.
From my limited understanding of how our rights and freedoms work, she could be denied accreditation by the ACA (a private entity), but to deny her a diploma based upon her beliefs would be a violation of her 1st Amendment rights, breaking her freedom of speech and exercising her freedom of religion.
Geministorm on July 28, 2010 at 4:11 PM
I doubt any gay person, at least those that are gay from the time they start having sex, chose to be so. Any more than I chose to hate spinach. But that doesn’t imply my dislike of spinach is genetic just because genetics gave me the ability to eat and digest food. People are genetically inclined to want sex and to procreate, how they end up doing it is on them and their environment, consciously or not.
Rocks on July 28, 2010 at 4:13 PM
Christians aren’t to live in some protected bubble sheltered from the godless, or something. She should accept that others do not believe the way she does but have the expectation that her beliefs would be reasonably respected in a public institution. The “value” of a degree from a public university should be the same to both Christian and non: time spent in study of a particular discipline. It’s a personal choice and neither is inherently more worthy than another.
Bee on July 28, 2010 at 4:14 PM
FIFY
DethMetalCookieMonst on July 28, 2010 at 4:14 PM
This is an automated reply to your email message.
I will be out of the office from June 23-August 9. I will be periodically checking email through the summer. If you have an urgent need, please contact the Department Admistrative Specialist at 706-737-1497 for further assistance. Thank you.
Dr. Anderson-Wiley
———————————–
Mary Jane Anderson-Wiley, Ph.D.
Associate Professor and Coordinator
Counselor Education Program
Augusta State University
2500 Walton Way, Augusta, GA 30904
706-667-4497 office
manders9@aug.edu
Akzed on July 28, 2010 at 4:14 PM
What exactly are Gay Rights? If that means special hate crime laws then I’m totally against them, too. Not on religious grounds but because there is no place in a free society for the government to be picking which victims of crime are more important than others. ALL crime is hate crime, especially violent crime.
So if I express that belief — which has nothing to do with bigotry and everything to do with basic justice & common sense — am I disqualified from getting a degree in Georgia?
miles on July 28, 2010 at 4:15 PM
But this isn’t her job, it is her education. Later is an employer asks and finds her views to be inappropriate, then they can deny her employment. I can’t imagine a school can deny her education.
Another point I would like to point out is, don’t you imagine there are all sorts of things that counselors and the people they help disagree about? As a Christian she could be equally offended by adultery, theft, gambling and any number of things. Why is the homosexual aspect of someone’s life any more important then her religion?
Cindy Munford on July 28, 2010 at 4:15 PM
OK, I see what you are saying.
Well I guess you run into problems in defining what homosexuality is due to the ethical and political nature of the debate.
sharrukin on July 28, 2010 at 4:16 PM
There was a case like this in Canada a few years ago. A Christian University had a code of conduct that all students signed that included refraining from sex unless married, and refraining from homosexuality.
Students with degrees in education were denied accreditation from the governing teachers association since students who signed this would be obviously bigoted against the homosexual students that they would be teaching.
Johnny 100 Pesos on July 28, 2010 at 4:16 PM
When it comes to issues of sexual orientation and sexuality we really don’t have a clue. Basically homosexuality was no longer looked upon as a psychological disorder when they realized they could not “cure” it. Guess what…they don’t have any higher success rates with rapists or child molesters either. As a society we decide what we will tolerate and what we won’t. We’ve decided to tolerate homosexuality and now we see all the other things that come into play with that decision…redefinition of marriage, don’t ask/don’t tell, sensitivity training, etc.
texabama on July 28, 2010 at 4:16 PM
Yeah, Christians should just practice self-exile from the schools their taxes support.
Akzed on July 28, 2010 at 4:17 PM
No gay person chooses to be gay, no more than a straight person chooses to be straight. Come on guys, this should be a no-brainer by now.
JetBoy on July 28, 2010 at 4:18 PM
Throw the bums out. They have no business being in the positions of power that they are at a public university.
Dusty on July 28, 2010 at 4:19 PM
Good point. It seems that the faculty/staff of ASU needs some “Christian perspective” sensitivity training.
It would really be interesting to see if the same rule was applied to a Muslim that graduated there. I have a feeling that is not the case.
shick on July 28, 2010 at 4:19 PM
I have to wonder if anyone in Jennifer Keeton’s life, whether it be college professors, family, or pastor, ever taught her the intrinsic social and economic value of “Play the Game?”
While the head of the department was certainly ham-fisted in telling Jennifer to go through a “remedial” program, I seriously doubt anyone was trying to tell her “Change or you just wasted your money in pursuing a degree we won’t let you have.”
BradSchwartze on July 28, 2010 at 4:21 PM
Well if your major was in computer science definitely! How could anyone program code with homophobia?/sarcasm
shick on July 28, 2010 at 4:21 PM
It should be, yes. I’m personally still waiting for a response to that heinous rape comparison someone made a bit earlier. Good Lord.
Bee on July 28, 2010 at 4:22 PM
Not to mention Muslims, who consider homosexuality a crime punishable by death. But, of course, the ASU faculty would not expect a Muslim to compromise his/her faith, would they?
DINORight on July 28, 2010 at 4:22 PM
akerralls on July 28, 2010 at 4:22 PM
Ask your college-aged children living in dorms about university-mandated sensitivity training.
publiuspen on July 28, 2010 at 4:22 PM
This is for counseling, yes?
If this were for almost anything else.. um. Business. Arts. Physics. Yea, ok. It’s imposing a religious test on graduation, that’s wrong.
But for counseling, I agree.
What if this woman gets into a high school as the school counselor? And she tells a gay teen who’s getting bullied.. “well, stop being gay then.”
One thing you need as a counselor is an open mind, an ability to listen, and an EXTREME level of tolerance. Because you will have clients that will tell you they enjoy all sorts of weird stuff, WAY beyond simple homosexuality, and as their counselor you need to offer advice that isn’t painted by your own personal biases and is in the client’s best interests.
triple on July 28, 2010 at 4:22 PM
The underlying identity and orientation are not choices. Ergo, homosexuality is not a choice.
Nice try.
Holger on July 28, 2010 at 4:24 PM
Of course if you question the need for that level of tolerance, all you need to do is wait for the first suicide case due to lack of effective counseling to change your mind.
triple on July 28, 2010 at 4:24 PM
Easy big guy.
Cindy Munford on July 28, 2010 at 4:25 PM
Well, that would be the LIBERAL definition of it. We don’t call poor people thieves if they don’t steal; we don’t call people with a bad temper murderers if they don’t kill; we don’t call people drug addicts if they don’t do drugs, etc.
If a man or a woman has never engaged in sexual acts with a same-sex person, they can’t possibly be considered gay. YOU have no right to label them as such until THEY choose to label themselves through the act.
Bee, I never compared it to rape – I CONTRASTED it to rape. See the difference? One is a choice; the other is not.
I find that when it’s convenient for homosexuals to play the victim, their homosexuality is “not a choice, but the way they were born,” and when it benefits them to insist on their rights, it’s suddenly a choice.
Then you get those who want to equivocate sexual orientation with minority status. Once again: you don’t choose whether you are born black, white, male, female. You DO choose who you go to bed with. End of story.
And while we’re on the subject (kind of), here’s my take on gay marriage if you care. Again, they argue for civil rights, but a gay man has the exact same rights to marry a woman of his choosing that I do, and I have no more right to marry a man than he does. Equal rights.
Beo on July 28, 2010 at 4:25 PM
Alternate Headline
HOT BLONDE LANDS FOX GIG
Gimmeabreak…am I really supposed to feel bad for her?
Did Carrie Prejean not happen?
This chick was done a favor. Someone is going to hand her a degree which she’ll tout all over FNC and end up meeting some people with stroke who will catapult her into the next economic rung.
budfox on July 28, 2010 at 4:27 PM
Matthew 7:1
JetBoy on July 28, 2010 at 4:27 PM
Of course. Almost all of your actions are by choice (breathing, heart beating, flinching, blinking, etc. not withstanding), and if you’re a Christian you believe in free will. But, neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality is a choice. The desire or attraction stirs one to act, but just because you deny the choice doesn’t infer that the desire is gone. To assume as much would be to say that all Catholic priests and nuns are asexual, otherwise they wouldn’t have to deny themselves sexual acts for their faith, they would just choose to be asexual and no longer have desires…which is ridiculous. The very fact that they must deny themselves their desires is a part of the sacrifice they make to become clergy, otherwise that sacrifice is meaningless. Likewise for alcoholics or recovering drug addicts, they will all tell you that the desire never goes away, and that they will *always* be alcoholics/addicts…their self denial does not make the desire go away.
Lastly, a young adult may choose to abstain from sexual acts until marriage. Abstaining does NOT mean they aren’t heterosexual does it? Thus, the definition of homosexual or heterosexual does NOT stem from the actions taken, but by the desire and attraction for persons of that sex.
Geministorm on July 28, 2010 at 4:28 PM
Same thing could apply to anyone. Should a “liberal” who constantly talks about how “bad” conservatives and Republicans are have to go through sensitivity training? Live with a republican family? Go to a tea Party?
I assume most professionals leave their personal beliefs and feeling behind when treating or counseling someone.
darwin on July 28, 2010 at 4:29 PM
I am all for an employer deciding who they hire, not a school on who gets an diploma. Either she makes the grades or she doesn’t. If the school thinks she won’t get certified because of her religious beliefs, that’s not their problem. Their job is to give her the education that she (or the taxpayers) paid for.
Cindy Munford on July 28, 2010 at 4:29 PM
Exactly.
BuckeyeSam on July 28, 2010 at 4:29 PM
How’s that?
JetBoy on July 28, 2010 at 4:29 PM
Wrong. She has an email trail showing that they did indeed indicate that she needed to change her faith views, or she would be put in to the remediation plan, then likely expelled from the counseling program. She has a strong case, from what I’ve read on the issue – and good lawyers who have had success in similar cases.
Moreover, it’s time to stop “playing the game” that these thugs have been playing for years. Liberal leftists in all areas need to be challenged on each and every heinous act, just like this one. The universities are rampant with this type of intolerance and discrimination – call them on it! The 1st Amendment is pretty clear. We don’t check our Constitutional rights at the door of a university – or, as you say, “play the game” to just get the degree. That is what they want: for everyone to just roll over and play their game, by their rules, until there is no liberty left, no “unalienable rights” left to us.
DINORight on July 28, 2010 at 4:30 PM
If your identity is tied up in who you sleep with, you lead a very sad life. And hell yes, they ARE choices. I am responsible for my own behavior, and so are you. I and I alone choose whom I share my body with. Not my environment, not my upbringing, not peer pressure, ME. Quit making excuses. You’ve bought into the psychoanalytical apologetics that has been trying to legitimize homosexuality for the past several decades. Congratulations, you pass counselor school, unlike the girl in the story.
For what it’s worth, I’m not condemning homosexuals whatsoever. I’m condeming the idea that they are victims of circumstances out of their control rather than the masters of their own fate. Shame on you all.
Beo on July 28, 2010 at 4:30 PM
Heterosexuality isn’t a choice. My mom and dad didn’t teach me to like girls. Just one day I went “Oh man … that looks nice!”
darwin on July 28, 2010 at 4:30 PM
Did she say this was how she would behave as a counselor or was she just expressing her views on homosexuality?
CDeb on July 28, 2010 at 4:31 PM
Matthew 7:1 has nothing to do with homosexuality or with calling sin a sin. Your interpretation of Mat 7:1 is directly contradicted by John 7:24
tommyboy on July 28, 2010 at 4:32 PM
You miss my point. Modern psychology/counseling has been very far from biblical counseling for decades. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouthetic_Counseling
shick on July 28, 2010 at 4:32 PM
unless it’s rape there’s no way it couldn’t be choice.
tommyboy on July 28, 2010 at 4:33 PM
Big Brother in academia will scratch your silly savage eyes out if you disagree with his everything is normal agenda.
profitsbeard on July 28, 2010 at 4:35 PM
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