Video: University makes diploma contingent on supporting gay rights?

posted at 3:35 pm on July 28, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

CNN has an interesting roundtable on the case of Jennifer Keeton, who has sued Augusta State University to keep from getting expelled for not repudiating her statements about homosexuality. Keeton expressed her biblical perspective on the subject in and out of class while working toward a degree in counseling, and the school mandated a “remediation plan” that appears to have required her to renounce her Christian doctrine in order to gain a diploma from the school.  The school has responded that a bias against homosexuality would disqualify Keeton from certification, a position that would put most Christians in Keeton’s position.

Does this amount to a “thought police”?  A religious test for education?  Or does Keeton’s lack of diversity appreciation really make her unqualified for a degree and career in counseling?

It sounds to me like the ACA wants a “don’t ask, don’t tell” rule for religion.  That runs square into the First Amendment, especially for a state-run school.  The ACA’s idea of who comes first doesn’t get to trump the restriction on freedom of religious exercise.  If clients get off-put by Keeton’s approach to counseling, they can look for another counselor.  Now, the ACA can decide not to certify her; as a private organization, they have that prerogative.  If they do that explicitly based on her religious belief, however, they may have a problem with that in court, especially as it will block Keeton’s ability to make a living.

The state-run school has no such leeway.  They cannot impose a religious test for graduation, no matter how they dress it up.


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Beo on July 29, 2010 at 3:38 PM

Your handle is a mind trip. Psychosomatic, or something. ;)

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 3:41 PM

Wow, Canada raised its age of consent from 14-16 in May of 2008. In 1890 it was raised from 12 to 14. Evil pedophile Canadians.

Holger on July 29, 2010 at 3:55 PM

Wow, Canada raised its age of consent from 14-16 in May of 2008. In 1890 it was raised from 12 to 14. Evil pedophile Canadians.

Holger on July 29, 2010 at 3:55 PM

wow the point is that the age of consent is ARBITRARY…you pathetic moron. again thanks for proving my point.

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:03 PM

wrong4life’s response:

piece of trash fantasizing about two women just proves hes pushing the gay agenda!!!

duhhhhhhhhhhh

MadisonConservative on July 29, 2010 at 3:22 PM

again you really are obsessed with me…thank God for concealed carry…oh but they don’t have that in WI do they?? *smirk*

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:05 PM

Been that way for a while. It was even more hilarious in the old days when he was reduced to simply calling people fat and ugly.

MadisonConservative on July 29, 2010 at 3:09 PM

looks like the truth hurt didn’t it?

too funny how much you remember of me…you really are obsessed with me!! BWAHAHAHAHAHH

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:07 PM

I’m sensing you may have problems with reading comprehension. Christians are to love (non-believing, pre-repentant, lost, whatever you want to call it) people regardless of their sin, just as Christ loved us while we were lost.

On the other hand, if somebody claims to be a Christian, yet continually behaves in a way that brings shame to the name of Christ, that person is to be reprimanded in specific ways that are outlined by Paul in the epistles. It is for this reason that *I* am reprimanding *you* for your hateful comments towards others on here while professing the name of Christ. Your attitude is very un-Christlike, and you are further solidifying the anti-Christian attitudes of non-believers here. Cut. It. Out.

Beo on July 29, 2010 at 3:07 PM

no I’m not having problems with it….esthier cannot call homosexuality a sin…yet professes to be a christian.

oh nice, another holier-than-thou christian…what gives yo the right to reprimand me? who do you think you are?

and why should I care?

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:08 PM

again you really are obsessed with me…thank God for concealed carry…oh but they don’t have that in WI do they?? *smirk*

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:05 PM

Except that they do and he does…and I believe he also open carries, but he can explain that to you.

So, when are you going to give us your best estimate at age of consent and how you arrived at it?

What is this, the 4th time I’ve asked?

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 4:09 PM

In 1890 it was raised from 12 to 14. Evil pedophile Canadians.

Holger on July 29, 2010 at 3:55 PM

12? That’s a bit low. I’d think to consent you would have needed to go through puberty first.

But it is true that the trend is in raising the number, not lowering it. That doesn’t mean that we can’t lower the age. Or that it’ll never be legal for NAMBLA people to get what they want, but until that time, it’s a pointless comparison.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 4:10 PM

On the other hand, if somebody claims to be a Christian, yet continually behaves in a way that brings shame to the name of Christ, that person is to be reprimanded in specific ways that are outlined by Paul in the epistles. It is for this reason that *I* am reprimanding *you* for your hateful comments towards others on here while professing the name of Christ. Your attitude is very un-Christlike, and you are further solidifying the anti-Christian attitudes of non-believers here. Cut. It. Out.

Beo on July 29, 2010 at 3:07 PM

oh so *I* bring shame on the name of Christ, but people who call themselves christians, but cannot even call homosexuality a sin do not…nice.

and why is disagreeing with the gay agenda hateful?

as far as what I say to madison, and some of the other wackos…hateful…right…more like mocking them…but hey go ahead and judge my motives, you are so like God after all!

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:10 PM

again you really are obsessed with me…thank God for concealed carry…oh but they don’t have that in WI do they?? *smirk*

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:05 PM

No, we don’t. We have open carry. However, to do that requires balls. Hence, you’d be defenseless if you ever came to our state.

MadisonConservative on July 29, 2010 at 4:11 PM

again you really are obsessed with me…thank God for concealed carry…oh but they don’t have that in WI do they?? *smirk*

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:05 PM

This look like a threat to anyone else?

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 4:11 PM

Except that they do and he does…and I believe he also open carries, but he can explain that to you.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 4:09 PM

Nope, we still don’t have CC. It’s getting closer, though.

MadisonConservative on July 29, 2010 at 4:11 PM

I shall not speak of gun laws when I know nothing of them again. I thought they legalized CC in WI.

*sigh*

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 4:13 PM

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 4:11 PM

Absolutely it does.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 4:14 PM

But it is true that the trend is in raising the number, not lowering it. That doesn’t mean that we can’t lower the age. Or that it’ll never be legal for NAMBLA people to get what they want, but until that time, it’s a pointless comparison.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 4:10 PM

its not a pointless comparison. homosexuality used to be illegal…and the same arguments for its acceptance are made for pedophilia…in fact…

Gay rights campaigner led a double life as leader of paedophile ring that carried out a catalogue of child abuse

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1178354/Gay-rights-campaigner-led-double-life-leader-paedophile-ring-carried-catalogue-child-abuse.html#ixzz0v6WOvMGv

And they described how Dr Williams even devoted an entire week’s prayers for Liam, the terribly damaged boy they went on to foster.

Liam Lucas was just one of the children abused by predatory paedophiles who took advantage of far-Left Islington Council’s childcare policies in the Eighties and Nineties, when it pro-actively recruited gay social workers.

Paedophiles exploited its well-intentioned commitment to equal opportunities and soon most of Islington’s 12 children’s homes had child molesters on the staff who cynically pretended to be ordinary homosexuals. Numerous children and other staff made allegations of abuse, but were branded homophobes and ignored.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-431917/A-foster-mother-pays-tribute-Archbishop-Canterburys-compassion.html#ixzz0v6WmYePP

oh yes the wonders of gay rights…in this case adoption…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:14 PM

Absolutely it does.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 4:14 PM

Wanted to make sure it wasn’t just me. The part on the end specifically seemed like one.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 4:15 PM

This look like a threat to anyone else?

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 4:11 PM

nice lie. just the opposite is the case….this sick obsession he has for me is creepy…and I am not the only in the thread that has labeled him creepy…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:16 PM

So, when are you going to give us your best estimate at age of consent and how you arrived at it?

What is this, the 4th time I’ve asked?

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 4:09 PM

I asked you the same question…I have not seen your answer…and you are making my point…though I know you cannot see it…no surprise.

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:17 PM

I shall not speak of gun laws when I know nothing of them again. I thought they legalized CC in WI.

*sigh*

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 4:13 PM

Understandable mistake. They have neither OC nor CC in Illinois, for that matter. So anybody who CC’d in that state would have to be someone willing to break the law to defend their life, particularly if they were near Chicago. Same even goes for the Milwaukee area.

Just pointing that out.

MadisonConservative on July 29, 2010 at 4:17 PM

its not a pointless comparison. homosexuality used to be illegal…and the same arguments for its acceptance are made for pedophilia…in fact…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:14 PM

Sure, but homosexuality was accepted before it became legal. Pedophilia is not, because we still believe as a society that it’s harmful to children and that children cannot legally consent to sexual activity.

Maybe a society in the future will decide otherwise, but it’s simply not going to happen in this one. To pretend that it could is to mislead, willfully or otherwise.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 4:17 PM

Except that they do and he does…and I believe he also open carries, but he can explain that to you.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 4:09 PM

oh in the past your hero madisonfascsist has invited me up he was gonna beat me up!

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:18 PM

wow the point is that the age of consent is ARBITRARY…you pathetic moron. again thanks for proving my point.

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:03 PM

You haven’t proven anything. You have been grasping at straws claiming a change in the age make such distinctions arbitrary or differences in consent age make it arbitrary. That the entire idea of consent is arbitrary.

Without realizing, age of consent worldwide ranges from puberty to age 20! This same range being where youth learn to drive, can start smoking, voting, holding property in their own stead, own a firearm, hunt unaccompanied, drink and work full-time in some locales.

You are thinking there has to be some specific age that all people agree upon, otherwise it is entirely arbitrary and soon we shall have Pedophile Womb Raiders.

Holger on July 29, 2010 at 4:20 PM

Maybe a society in the future will decide otherwise, but it’s simply not going to happen in this one. To pretend that it could is to mislead, willfully or otherwise.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 4:17 PM

just like we’d NEVER have marijuana shops selling it in CA…

or we’d never have prohibition, or repeal it….

NEVER happen…just like you can let your kid ride his bike all over town, like we could in years gone by…nothing has changed…kids are safe!!

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:20 PM

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:17 PM

I’ve already answered that and the methods arriving at it numerous times.

So, what’s yours? How would you come to that conclusion?
5th or 6th time, I’ve lost count. Since it’s arbitrary, give it your best shot.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 4:20 PM

Without realizing, age of consent worldwide ranges from puberty to age 20! This same range being where youth learn to drive, can start smoking, voting, holding property in their own stead, own a firearm, hunt unaccompanied, drink and work full-time in some locales.

You are thinking there has to be some specific age that all people agree upon, otherwise it is entirely arbitrary and soon we shall have Pedophile Womb Raiders.

Holger on July 29, 2010 at 4:20 PM

really, how stupid are you? you keep making my point…there is no set age for anything…its ALL ARBITRARY…duhhhhhhh

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:21 PM

I’ve already answered that and the methods arriving at it numerous times.

So, what’s yours? How would you come to that conclusion?
5th or 6th time, I’ve lost count. Since it’s arbitrary, give it your best shot.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 4:20 PM

really where?

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:22 PM

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:18 PM

Oh, do quote.

MadisonConservative on July 29, 2010 at 4:23 PM

nice lie. just the opposite is the case….this sick obsession he has for me is creepy…and I am not the only in the thread that has labeled him creepy…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:16 PM

Since when is a question a lie? Do you understand what the word means?

And I’m not sure how else to take the “oh but they don’t have that in WI do they?? *smirk*” as anything but a potentially threatening acknowledgment that Madison might not be as protected as you are.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 4:27 PM

Oh, do quote.

MadisonConservative on July 29, 2010 at 4:23 PM

why? I don’t waste my time searching for words…

you did, you remember it as well as I do.

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:27 PM

And I’m not sure how else to take the “oh but they don’t have that in WI do they?? *smirk*” as anything but a potentially threatening acknowledgment that Madison might not be as protected as you are.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 4:27 PM

take it anyway you want honey, I really don’t care.

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:27 PM

Assuming Augusta State is a public school, Georgia’s legislature has every right to tell it to change policy pronto.

The legislature taking action is the preferred outcome. “We the people” are in charge here. Georgians — and the rest of us — don’t have to sit around and helplessly wait for a court to decide a case. It’s long past time to reestablish that what the state pays for, the people have supervision over — and that includes the PC Policies of the state university systems.

J.E. Dyer on July 29, 2010 at 4:28 PM

really where?

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:22 PM

Generally the age of sexual maturity/marriageability/ emotional maturity. For most in America (aside from parental consent provisions) the age is between 16-18. As I said.

So your turn. What’s the standard? How would it be assigned and if it’s arbitrary, why even bother? (That last one is a bonus question. Don’t answer if it stresses you out…stick with the first couple.)

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 4:32 PM

just like we’d NEVER have marijuana shops selling it in CA…

Who said that? That’s been a no-brainer for decades.

or we’d never have prohibition, or repeal it….

That was a different society. I suppose you missed that part of my post.

NEVER happen…just like you can let your kid ride his bike all over town, like we could in years gone by…nothing has changed…kids are safe!!

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:20 PM

Kids can ride bikes all around town. Plenty do.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 4:32 PM

take it anyway you want honey, I really don’t care.

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:27 PM

I’m not honey.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 4:35 PM

Jennifer Keeton is kinda hot.

jazzmo on July 29, 2010 at 4:43 PM

Discover Magazine on the Origins of Homosexuality

Holger on July 28, 2010 at 5:56 PM

Somewhat earlier (July 29, 2010 at 11:06 AM) I commented on one of the great ironies I saw in the interesting article above that Holger had recommended. But I’m afraid I also can’t resist posting this tantalizing tidbit from it:

(In this respect, men are entirely different from women. Studies have shown that women respond to all types of sexual depictions—not only heterosexual and homosexual images but even those of chimpanzees having sex.)

Who know why Animal Planet was so popular?

Dr. Charles G. Waugh on July 29, 2010 at 4:45 PM

Kids can ride bikes all around town. Plenty do.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 4:32 PM

right, no worries! sure ever hear of Devlin?? look him up.

That was a different society. I suppose you missed that part of my post.

but ours will NEVER change…no ….

Who said that? That’s been a no-brainer for decades.

really so in the 1990s everyone thought CA would be selling dope…guess I missed that…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:50 PM

Generally the age of sexual maturity/marriageability/ emotional maturity. For most in America (aside from parental consent provisions) the age is between 16-18. As I said.

So your turn. What’s the standard? How would it be assigned and if it’s arbitrary, why even bother? (That last one is a bonus question. Don’t answer if it stresses you out…stick with the first couple.)

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 4:32 PM

so in other words, you have some arbitrary standard…why not 21 when they can better handle a relationship?

my whole point, which you conveniently miss, is that it is totally arbitrary and can be changed…and in fact the pedophiles would LOVE to have it changed…and they have support from organizaitons like the ACLU…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:52 PM

and since homosexuality was once illegal in many parts of the country, the same arguments can be made to legalize pedophilia…so comparing homosexuality to the pedophilia, both of which are just ‘alternative lifestyles’ is valid.

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:53 PM

really, how stupid are you? you keep making my point…there is no set age for anything…its ALL ARBITRARY…duhhhhhhh

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:21 PM

Then show me the State or Nation allows the molestation of 2 year olds. Show me the State or Nation that allows 5 year olds to get behind the wheel of cars on public roads without adult supervision. Or a State or Nation that allows 8 year olds to vote and hold public office. How about a state or nation that allows 3 year olds to drink hard liquor.

You cannot show that because the range is in fact not arbitrary but is contingent upon when individuals begin to mature emotionally, intellectually and physically.

In India back around the late 1800s, it was not uncommon to see 12 year olds married. Guess what, 12 years old is the age of consent in Mexico’s Federal District and in Japan.

You are arguing entire Mountain Ranges out of mole-hills. Claiming minor discrepancies mean that soon we will have Pedophiles legally able to go to Kindergarten for sex, when some countries in Africa place age of consent at 16 years of age!

And furthermore you are going absurd by arguing allowing sex between two consenting 80 year old men legalizes sex between an 80 year old man and a toddler.

Give. It. Up. Already.

Holger on July 29, 2010 at 4:54 PM

why? I don’t waste my time searching for words…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:27 PM

Oh, you’ve made that quite clear.

MadisonConservative on July 29, 2010 at 5:00 PM

my whole point, which you conveniently miss, is that it is totally arbitrary and can be changed…and in fact the pedophiles would LOVE to have it changed…and they have support from organizaitons like the ACLU…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:52 PM

Wait…I thought it was the gays that wanted it changed. You know, because you said the ACLU defended gays. Oh, but then you couldn’t explain why they also defended Muslims, who hate gays as much as you do. Then you said it was just anti-Christian. Oh, but that doesn’t work, either.

MadisonConservative on July 29, 2010 at 5:03 PM

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:52 PM

Colossal dodge.

The word arbitrary indicates individual whim, not fixed by law (tell that to pedophiles in jail) and (wait for it…): “based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something.” Intrinsic nature like, you know, age of sexual maturity and emotional ability to consent. These are issues that government (local and federal) labor over intensively. At the very least, you can’t use the word “arbitrary” when what you mean is that the age simply varies by a year or two based on the deliberation of state governments, still involving the same system of measurement. It’s not capricious but a legal determination based on evidence.

Ultimately your argument was that if we normalize homosexual behavior, pedophilia follows because that, too, is arbitrarily defined. Since we know it’s not arbitrary (by definition), we can go back to my original point. What we’ve established as age of consent will protect minors and punish violators and what two adults decide to do in their homes should be their own business.

But, I’d still like to hear your answer and the system you used to arrive at it. Damn…that’s the tenth time, I think.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 5:08 PM

so comparing homosexuality to the pedophilia, both of which are just ‘alternative lifestyles’ is valid.

One would think that the word discernment enters into ones thought…not so with this post.
Equating pedophilia to homosexuality may be the same to you, but not to most normal thinking people it is not.
Drinking or working on Sunday was also once outlawed, they would be the same to you?
Driving through a stop sign is illegal, the same as pedophilia to you?
Just because two things are, or were, illegal it doesn’t make them equal or the same.

In Providence, Rhode Island, it is against the law to jump off a bridge.
Alaska law says that you can’t look at a moose from an airplane.
In Memphis, Tennessee, a woman is not to drive a car unless a man warns approaching motorists or pedestrians by walking in front of the car that is being driven.
In Alabama it is illegal to wear a fake mustache that causes laughter in church.
New York: A license must be purchased before hanging clothes on a clothesline.
All the same as pedophile to some…

right2bright on July 29, 2010 at 5:09 PM

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 5:08 PM

To clear it up even further. These are clinical definitions.

Pedophilia refers to attraction to pre-pubescent minors, roughly before 11 years of age.

Hebephilia refers to attraction to minors during puberty (11-15).

And Ephebophilia refers to attraction to post pubescent minors (15+).

Holger on July 29, 2010 at 5:18 PM

Holger on July 29, 2010 at 5:18 PM

But…that’s just more social science gobbledygook. :) He wont recognize that, either.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 5:25 PM

But…that’s just more social science gobbledygook. :) He wont recognize that, either.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 5:25 PM

Probably, they are distinct and separate issues.

Holger on July 29, 2010 at 5:29 PM

And furthermore you are going absurd by arguing allowing sex between two consenting 80 year old men legalizes sex between an 80 year old man and a toddler.

Give. It. Up. Already.

Holger on July 29, 2010 at 4:54 PM

why should I give up the truth? the same arguments that are used to advance the gay agenda are used to advance the pedophile’s agenda. why do you think groups like GLSEN are SO eager to get their ‘education’ into elementary schools?

you really are stupid. seriously.

and apparently you consider yourself a christian, yet you have no problem with gay marriage, or what it would to religious liberty….no surprise!

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 6:33 PM

Wait…I thought it was the gays that wanted it changed. You know, because you said the ACLU defended gays. Oh, but then you couldn’t explain why they also defended Muslims, who hate gays as much as you do. Then you said it was just anti-Christian. Oh, but that doesn’t work, either.

MadisonConservative on July 29, 2010 at 5:03 PM

where were the great and holy ACLU when it comes to defending this girl? or the doctor in CA who was sued by lesbians for refusing to inseminate them? and was told his religious and free speech rights are meaningless compared to the rights of gays???? hmmmmmm????

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 6:35 PM

In India back around the late 1800s, it was not uncommon to see 12 year olds married. Guess what, 12 years old is the age of consent in Mexico’s Federal District and in Japan.

You are arguing entire Mountain Ranges out of mole-hills. Claiming minor discrepancies mean that soon we will have Pedophiles legally able to go to Kindergarten for sex, when some countries in Africa place age of consent at 16 years of age!

And furthermore you are going absurd by arguing allowing sex between two consenting 80 year old men legalizes sex between an 80 year old man and a toddler.

Give. It. Up. Already.

Holger on July 29, 2010 at 4:54 PM

you are SO stupid, you are just making my point.

what a buffoon, are you for real?

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 6:36 PM

President Obama’s “safe schools czar” is a former schoolteacher who has advocated promoting homosexuality in schools, written about his past drug abuse, expressed his contempt for religion and detailed an incident in which he did not report an underage student who told him he was having sex with older men.

Conservatives are up in arms about the appointment of Kevin Jennings, Obama’s director of the Office of Safe and Drug Free Schools, saying he is too radical for the job.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/23/critics-assail-obamas-safe-schools-czar-say-hes-wrong-man-job/

oh yeah safe school czar!!!

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 6:38 PM

The group Jennings founded has also been accused of promoting homosexuality in schools. At a GLSEN conference in 2000, co-sponsored with the Massachusetts Department of Education, the group landed in hot water when it was revealed that it had included an educational seminar for kids that graphically described some unorthodox sex techniques.

A state official who spoke to teens at the conference said:

“Fisting (forcing one’s entire hand into another person’s rectum or vagina) often gets a bad rap….[It's] an experience of letting somebody into your body that you want to be that close and intimate with…[and] to put you into an exploratory mode.”

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 6:40 PM

Colossal dodge.

you really are full of it.

The word arbitrary indicates individual whim, not fixed by law (tell that to pedophiles in jail) and (wait for it…): “based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something.” Intrinsic nature like, you know, age of sexual maturity and emotional ability to consent. These are issues that government (local and federal) labor over intensively. At the very least, you can’t use the word “arbitrary” when what you mean is that the age simply varies by a year or two based on the deliberation of state governments, still involving the same system of measurement. It’s not capricious but a legal determination based on evidence.

you mean like Obama laboring over the financial regulations? right…its SO DELIBERATE!!! please….laughalbe.

Ultimately your argument was that if we normalize homosexual behavior, pedophilia follows because that, too, is arbitrarily defined. Since we know it’s not arbitrary (by definition), we can go back to my original point. What we’ve established as age of consent will protect minors and punish violators and

But, I’d still like to hear your answer and the system you used to arrive at it. Damn…that’s the tenth time, I think.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 5:08 PM

normalize homosexual behavior? are you insane? its a protected, privileged activity in this country…and if you disagree, you face sanctions…are you really that clueless???

the same arguments that are used to legitimize homosexual ‘marriage’ are to be used for pedohpilia, polygamy, polyandry…anything…after all its just a lifestyle choice, isn’t it??

what two adults decide to do in their homes should be their own business.

so if adults do DRUGS in their homes, we shouldn’t interfere huh??? oh I know we can ban fatty foods because thats bad for you…but gay sex, which has terrible health consequences, is protected, and promoted!! yeah that makes sense…

you are just assinine.

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 6:48 PM

No, we don’t. We have open carry. However, to do that requires balls. Hence, you’d be defenseless if you ever came to our state.

MadisonConservative on July 29, 2010 at 4:11 PM

right….in your dreams…jackass. I don’t need a gun with punks like you.

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 6:51 PM

oh and course all you wackos who say ‘it can’t happen here’ are just clueless…we’re rapidly turning into a fascist state…oh but it can’t happen here…

100 years ago no one ever would have thought abortion would legal…

these threads are so predictable

anyone who disagrees with the gay agenda is hateful, not a christian, yadayadayda

and of course the pro-gay people are on the side of angels…

all the while ignoring the effects of gay marriage upon real marriage, and society as a whole…and of course they have NO concern about the loss of religious liberty, or freedom of speech, since they want to silence those who disagree anyway…like the fascists they are.

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 6:57 PM

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 6:48 PM

Hey, thanks for all the sweet compliments! Now would you mind answering my question?

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 7:02 PM

Hey, thanks for all the sweet compliments! Now would you mind answering my question?

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 7:02 PM

its gotten to the point of casting pearls before swine with you…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 7:09 PM

why don’t you answer my question aunt bee??

ormalize homosexual behavior? are you insane? its a protected, privileged activity in this country…and if you disagree, you face sanctions…are you really that clueless???

the same arguments that are used to legitimize homosexual ‘marriage’ are to be used for pedohpilia, polygamy, polyandry…anything…after all its just a lifestyle choice, isn’t it??

so if adults do DRUGS in their homes, we shouldn’t interfere huh???

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 7:10 PM

its gotten to the point of casting pearls before swine with you…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 7:09 PM

Thanks.

Um, so, my question was: define age of consent and why/how you arrived at that estimate. Do you need me to rephrase it? Just let me know.

why don’t you answer my question aunt bee??

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 7:10 PM

I’m not your aunt.

So how about we just focus on the same question I’ve asked you about 12 times now instead of your babbling obfuscation…just for a sec.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 7:19 PM

right, no worries! sure ever hear of Devlin?? look him up.

And kids have also died eating peanut butter. That doesn’t mean that kids in general can’t eat peanut butter.

but ours will NEVER change…no ….

Depends on the definition of the word “ours”. You and I have a different definition.

Regardless, homosexuality is legal, pedophilia is not. And unless you’re arguing that homosexuality should be illegal, there’s no real logic to your comparison anyway.

really so in the 1990s everyone thought CA would be selling dope…guess I missed that…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 4:50 PM

Considering the rate of acceptance of marijuana at the time, which went as far as electing president a man who’d admitted to smoking it, it’s hard to say it was a huge shock that the state that spawned hippies would eventually be selling it legally.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 8:17 PM

So how about we just focus on the same question I’ve asked you about 12 times now instead of your babbling obfuscation…just for a sec.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 7:19 PM

You’re asking too much.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 8:18 PM

And kids have also died eating peanut butter. That doesn’t mean that kids in general can’t eat peanut butter.

right, I’m sure you just let your kid wander around..everyone does these days…its just like it was when I was growing up…sure…delusional.

Depends on the definition of the word “ours”. You and I have a different definition.

Regardless, homosexuality is legal, pedophilia is not. And unless you’re arguing that homosexuality should be illegal, there’s no real logic to your comparison anyway.

oh the logic is there, thats why people like you have to spend SO much effort to divert and deny. because if homosexuality is just another lifestyle choice, then so is pedophilia….and if homosexuality is inherited, then so is pedophilia…and since you are ALL ABOUT making homosexuality a protected class, just like race is, then its just a small step to making polygamy, polyandry, pedophilia, into that same protected class..

not that logic or truth mean anything to people like you…nor does the effects of gay marriage upon real marriage, or upon freedom, matter to people like you.

Considering the rate of acceptance of marijuana at the time, which went as far as electing president a man who’d admitted to smoking it, it’s hard to say it was a huge shock that the state that spawned hippies would eventually be selling it legally.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 8:17 PM

right, I remember it being talked about all the time in the 90s…:rolleyes:

laughable.

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 8:33 PM

Um, so, my question was: define age of consent and why/how you arrived at that estimate. Do you need me to rephrase it? Just let me know.

I’ve already answered it many times, you’re just too stupid to get it, obviously…

So how about we just focus on the same question I’ve asked you about 12 times now instead of your babbling obfuscation…just for a sec.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 7:19 PM

didn’t think you could…it would take independent thinking…which you liberal wackos are not too good at!

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 8:34 PM

oh and aunt bee, the law and the constitution mean whatever the judges, and the bureacrats say it means…so much your for ‘deliberation’

laughable. I bet you really believe in Obama!

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 8:37 PM

I’ve already answered it many times, you’re just too stupid to get it, obviously…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 8:34 PM

Perhaps so. Tell me one more time, for charity.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 8:42 PM

delusional.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 8:17 PM

You certainly are.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 8:52 PM

You’re asking too much.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 8:18 PM

I know. *sigh* Plus I already made my point. But, I’m tenacious when something bugs me. Add vodka to the mix and…yeah. :)

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 8:53 PM

I know. *sigh* Plus I already made my point. But, I’m tenacious when something bugs me. Add vodka to the mix and…yeah. :)

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 8:53 PM

Completely been there. Heck, I was so quick to reply that I called myself delusional.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 9:01 PM

Completely been there. Heck, I was so quick to reply that I called myself delusional.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 9:01 PM

Saw that and laughed…only because I do that often.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 9:05 PM

delusional.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 8:17 PM

You certainly are.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 8:52 PM

Did you just call yourself delusional?

For what it is worth, my opinion is you are not delusional, as your arguments are usually rock solid, but, if you think otherwise…. :)

rukiddingme on July 29, 2010 at 9:06 PM

Completely been there. Heck, I was so quick to reply that I called myself delusional.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 9:01 PM

Ok, I stand corrected and the world is better now.

Maybe I should upgrade the dial up connection.

rukiddingme on July 29, 2010 at 9:09 PM

Saw that and laughed…only because I do that often.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 9:05 PM

I did too, actually, though I wish I could blame it on alcohol.

Did you just call yourself delusional?

For what it is worth, my opinion is you are not delusional, as your arguments are usually rock solid, but, if you think otherwise…. :)

rukiddingme on July 29, 2010 at 9:06 PM

Thanks, that’s really sweet. I just quoted the wrong screen name. Serves me right for trying to make a Pee Wee comeback. It would have been lame anyway.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 9:11 PM

Maybe I should upgrade the dial up connection.

rukiddingme on July 29, 2010 at 9:09 PM

I feel your pain. I remember trying to play an online game on it.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 9:12 PM

I was so quick to reply that I called myself delusional.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 9:01 PM

first true thing you’ve said all day…hell probably your entire life…

ms. ‘christian’ who can’t bring herself to say that homosexuality is a sin…

seriously delusional…don’t worry, God is not mocked.

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 9:22 PM

I know. *sigh* Plus I already made my point. But, I’m tenacious when something bugs me. Add vodka to the mix and…yeah. :)

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 8:53 PM

yeah you’ve demonstrated how idiotic you are…besides that, you’ve really made my point, that age of consent is an arbitrary number, has been changed over time…and can be changed whenever those in power want to.

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 9:23 PM

oh aunt bee as far as being tenacious…oh yeah you really are tenacious for a lie…too bad you can’t be for the truth.

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 9:24 PM

and apparently you consider yourself a christian, yet you have no problem with gay marriage, or what it would to religious liberty….no surprise!

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 6:33 PM

Not that old Religious liberty argument again. You are arguing for a Theocracy, plain and simple. You are demanding people adhere to your religion. You are no different than the Mad Mullahs in Iran, except the God you pray to.

And I ain’t a Christian, except an affinity for the Christianity found in the Dream of the Rood. I converted to the religion of the pre-Christian Norse and Germans, we used to hang criminals like you from trees and I’d like to get back to that tradition.

Holger on July 29, 2010 at 9:29 PM

yeah you’ve demonstrated how idiotic you are…besides that, you’ve really made my point, that age of consent is an arbitrary number, has been changed over time…and can be changed whenever those in power want to.

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 9:23 PM

There you go misinterpreting that word “arbitrary.” So, what was your answer again? Age of consent and how you got there…Go!

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 9:34 PM

first true thing you’ve said all day…hell probably your entire life…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 9:22 PM

Well, it certainly would explain why I’m still responding to you after all these years. Little else can.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 9:36 PM

There you go misinterpreting that word “arbitrary.” So, what was your answer again? Age of consent and how you got there…Go!

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 9:34 PM

21…pulled it out of my a** hows that? now why don’t you answer the following questions…if you can….but we all know you cannot…

ormalize homosexual behavior? are you insane? its a protected, privileged activity in this country…and if you disagree, you face sanctions…are you really that clueless???

the same arguments that are used to legitimize homosexual ‘marriage’ are to be used for pedohpilia, polygamy, polyandry…anything…after all its just a lifestyle choice, isn’t it??

so if adults do DRUGS in their homes, we shouldn’t interfere huh???

give it a try aunt bee!!

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 9:40 PM

Not that old Religious liberty argument again. You are arguing for a Theocracy, plain and simple. You are demanding people adhere to your religion. You are no different than the Mad Mullahs in Iran, except the God you pray to.

And I ain’t a Christian, except an affinity for the Christianity found in the Dream of the Rood. I converted to the religion of the pre-Christian Norse and Germans, we used to hang criminals like you from trees and I’d like to get back to that tradition.

Holger on July 29, 2010 at 9:29 PM

did you actually READ the subject of this post? about what the university is doing to this woman because of her faith??

of course you’d like to kill me…you’re a typical fascist wacko…but you’d find that easier said than done my fat little fascist friend…LOL

you are the one who is like the fascist mad mullahs…you insipid piece of trash…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 9:42 PM

Well, it certainly would explain why I’m still responding to you after all these years. Little else can.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 9:36 PM

I’d rather you didn’t.

As far as your ‘christianity’ you may want to read the bible, instead of coming up with one of your own…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 9:43 PM

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 9:36 PM

oh and I’m sure you’ll be all upset about holger’s threat to me won’t you now?

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 9:45 PM

did you actually READ the subject of this post? about what the university is doing to this woman because of her faith??

So that justifies, doing the exact same thing to people who aren’t Christian enough.

of course you’d like to kill me…you’re a typical fascist wacko…but you’d find that easier said than done my fat little fascist friend…LOL

And there you go straight to some murder/execution fantasy. I don’t know what your deal is with that. Why do you always assume people want to kill you? It’s pretty twisted and abnormal.

you are the one who is like the fascist mad mullahs…you insipid piece of trash…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 9:42 PM

And then you end with the Pee Wee. I’m starting to wonder if you’re just a computer program spitting out predetermined answers based on some predictable formula.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 9:48 PM

So that justifies, doing the exact same thing to people who aren’t Christian enough.

where do you come up with such stupidity? have you been drinking?

And there you go straight to some murder/execution fantasy. I don’t know what your deal is with that. Why do you always assume people want to kill you? It’s pretty twisted and abnormal.

oh I don’t know…maybe this…

And I ain’t a Christian, except an affinity for the Christianity found in the Dream of the Rood. I converted to the religion of the pre-Christian Norse and Germans, we used to hang criminals like you from trees and I’d like to get back to that tradition.

maybe you should try english 101…or more likely, you just agree with him…

you really are a waste of space…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 9:50 PM

I’d rather you didn’t.

And yet you keep instigating conversations.

oh and I’m sure you’ll be all upset about holger’s threat to me won’t you now?

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 9:45 PM

You actually mentioned that Madison might not be as safe as he could be. He’s feeling nostalgic about a time when people like you were criminals. It’s no more a threat than your desire to see non Christians in hell.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 9:51 PM

And yet you keep instigating conversations.

if you look at this thread YOU started posted to me.

get a clue. wacko.

You actually mentioned that Madison might not be as safe as he could be. He’s feeling nostalgic about a time when people like you were criminals. It’s no more a threat than your desire to see non Christians in hell.

don’t worry, you’ll defend him…you’ll make him sing in the choir, remember?

and when did I say I want to see non-christians in hell

can you lie anymore? you are so full of sh** its laughable!

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 9:53 PM

He’s feeling nostalgic about a time when people like you were criminals

oh and when were people like me criminals? oh I know in your ideal state, nazi germany, like Bonhoeffer was…

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 9:54 PM

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 9:40 PM

You didn’t pull that out of your ass. Why 21? Why not 18? Why not 16? How about the biblical standard of 14ish?

Answers:

normalize homosexual behavior?

Yes, that’s what I said.

are you insane?

It’s possible.

its a protected, privileged activity in this country…and if you disagree, you face sanctions…

I never said that some wouldn’t seek to silence objectors. I also never said I was a proponent of homosexuality. You decided that on your own. I defended the right for adults to engage in consensual sex behind closed doors and disputed the correlation (in all cases) to pedophilia. That has been my argument. I suspect you’re overlapping your battles here. Makes sense.

are you really that clueless???

No, but I liked the movie as a kid.

the same arguments that are used to legitimize homosexual ‘marriage’ are to be used for pedohpilia, polygamy, polyandry…anything…after all its just a lifestyle choice, isn’t it??

Er, this is what we’ve been arguing all day.

so if adults do DRUGS in their homes, we shouldn’t interfere huh???

Philosophically, I’d say no we shouldn’t interfere. Realistically, I know some drugs are harder than others and pose direct threats to NONconsenting citizens. Slightly more difficult to contain someone high on PCP than over, say, pot.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 9:55 PM

I never said that some wouldn’t seek to silence objectors.

and you are on their side.

I also never said I was a proponent of homosexuality. You decided that on your own. I defended the right for adults to engage in consensual sex behind closed doors and disputed the correlation (in all cases) to pedophilia. That has been my argument. I suspect you’re overlapping your battles here. Makes sense.

of course your not…if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck…as you say…

Er, this is what we’ve been arguing all day.

thanks for admitting it.

Philosophically, I’d say no we shouldn’t interfere. Realistically, I know some drugs are harder than others and pose direct threats to NONconsenting citizens. Slightly more difficult to contain someone high on PCP than over, say, pot.

and of course the threat gay marriage poses to religious liberty, and freedom of speech and thought, are no problems to people like you…not to mention what it does to society, children, and real marriage.

you’re a very shallow person.

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 9:58 PM

I’m starting to wonder if you’re just a computer program spitting out predetermined answers based on some predictable formula.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 9:48 PM

“42″ says Deep Thought.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 9:59 PM

You didn’t pull that out of your ass. Why 21? Why not 18? Why not 16? How about the biblical standard of 14ish?

Answers:

again thanks for making my point…although you’re obviously too dense to get it….

its whatever number those in power want it to be. and given who we have in power now…like the ‘safe schools czar’ you know….the guy who wouldn’t report pedophilia?

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 10:01 PM

again thanks for making my point…although you’re obviously too dense to get it….

right4life on July 29, 2010 at 10:01 PM

My point has always been that certain criteria is used to determine age of consent…a framework based on development, etc., which is then used to administer justice. This, by definition, isn’t “arbitrary.”

True arbitrary assignment would be none at all, beholden to no law, not arrived at via sound research, by fiat. You know it isn’t truly arbitrary yet you continue to redefine the term and assume it could quickly shift because gay people get to have sex in their bedrooms. That, my friend, is dense.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 10:15 PM

You know it isn’t truly arbitrary yet you continue to redefine the term and assume it could quickly shift because gay people get to have sex in their bedrooms. That, my friend, is dense.

Bee on July 29, 2010 at 10:15 PM

Computers can’t really think on their toes.

Esthier on July 29, 2010 at 10:26 PM

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