Massachusetts passes bill awarding electoral votes to winner of national popular vote
posted at 9:02 pm on July 27, 2010 by Allahpundit
Alternate headline: “Massachusetts disenfranchises self.”
Senate minority leader Richard Tisei said the state was meddling with a system that was “tried and true” since the founding of the country.
“We’ve had a lot of bad ideas come through this chamber over the years, but this is going to be one of the worst ideas that has surfaced and actually garnered some support,” said Tisei, who is also the Republican candidate for lieutenant governor.
The bill, which passed on a 28-to-9 vote, now heads to Democratic Governor Deval Patrick’s desk. The governor has said in the past that he supports the bill, said his spokeswoman Kim Haberlin.
Under the law, which was enacted by the House last week, all 12 of the state’s electoral votes would be awarded to the candidate who receives the most votes nationally.
Note well: The law only goes into effect if/when states accounting for 270 combined electoral votes pass this same bill, thereby ensuring that the winner of the national popular vote will have the EVs he needs to be elected president under the Constitution. Only five states accounting for a combined 61 votes have passed it thus far, so if Obama wins Massachusetts in 2012 but his Republican opponent wins the popular vote overall, Mass stays blue. Nothing to worry about then? Well, not quite: New York, which has 31 EVs, is on the brink of passing it and California, with 55 EVs, has twice pushed it through the legislature only to have it die on Schwarznegger’s desk. Assume those two states finally get the job done and suddenly we’re at 147 combined electoral votes pledged to the winner of the popular vote — more than halfway to the goal.
Even so, I’m not that worried. For one thing, I remember reading during the 2008 campaign (can’t find the cite, alas) that the odds of a presidential candidate winning the popular vote but not the electoral college are extremely small. It’s possible, of course — ask Al Gore — but it’s really hard to do, so this gambit will end up deciding the election only in extremely unusual circumstances. Beyond that, while the number of states that are looking at this idea is growing, it’s probably only the reliably blue ones that will go for it. Why would Florida or Ohio, say, forfeit their electoral votes by signing on when their swing-state status ensures plenty of extra attention from the candidates every four years? The more blue states sign up for this, the cooler red states and purple states will be to it, to the point where I wonder how big realistically this bloc can get. 200 EVs, maybe, until other states start walking away? Three cheers for self-interest!









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Dude?
Weebork on July 27, 2010 at 9:05 PM
Just one more long term plan to neutralize fly over country!
bluemarlin on July 27, 2010 at 9:08 PM
Just another way for Dems to justify stealing an election. This is 2000 hanging chad fallout IMO.
ted c on July 27, 2010 at 9:08 PM
It’s a good thing we have strict laws against voter fraud, identifying legal citizens, and only one person one vote…
Oh, wait!
Seven Percent Solution on July 27, 2010 at 9:09 PM
Can you imagine the huge crisis that will happen when (not if) the nationwide popular vote selects a winner with a margin of only 10,000 votes? Florida x 50, with politicized state AGs and 50 different state voting laws?
keep the current system, at least it keeps any problems compartmentalized.
dIb on July 27, 2010 at 9:09 PM
They still can’t get over the 2000 election? How pathetic.
Lance Murdock on July 27, 2010 at 9:09 PM
Mass also charges taxes on large boats, by Thurston Howell did not want to pay.
d1carter on July 27, 2010 at 9:10 PM
The nice thing about the electoral college is that it quarantines Illinois level corruption to that state alone.
Ted Torgerson on July 27, 2010 at 9:11 PM
Dems don’t justify anything. They just do what they want and “f” the little people.
milwife88 on July 27, 2010 at 9:12 PM
This is just trying to eradicate the Electoral College without going through a messy thing like legality.
ddrintn on July 27, 2010 at 9:12 PM
There are serious questions about the constitutionality of these measures.
While it is true that states are free to choose the method they use to select their slate of electors, it is not at all clear that they can be chosen based on the votes of residents of other states. This may violate the 14th amendment, among other things.
notropis on July 27, 2010 at 9:13 PM
Maybe if the oil spill had been THERE….
KZnextzone on July 27, 2010 at 9:13 PM
No reason to campaign there anymore.
Ronnie on July 27, 2010 at 9:14 PM
Otherwise known as City Mouse passes law to disenfranchise the Country Mouse.
Firefly_76 on July 27, 2010 at 9:14 PM
Notice how Lefties think they can improve on everything and then don’t.
Cindy Munford on July 27, 2010 at 9:15 PM
..oh, I dunno, this could come back to bite them in the ass if this gets passed and in place for 2012. Could you see the (R) amassing a ton of popular votes and sweeping away the blue states’ EVs..
..then again, I probably better get down to Booze-a-rama and get another quart before it closes.
The War Planner on July 27, 2010 at 9:15 PM
Constitution Schmonstitution.
Dr.Cwac.Cwac on July 27, 2010 at 9:15 PM
Don’t yell at me – but why is this a bad thing?
We clearly have an inequality with the electoral college. The big states with many votes get heaps of pork and more attention from the principles. Get rid of that … with a popular vote – and you have true democracy there and candidates have to contest for the whole electorate – rather than a few, certain states.
I mean sure – it would have been a disaster to have Algore as President … with his “Hey you! Take Care of THIS!” leadership style (smile) but …
Next time around the GW in the race might get the popular and the Algore might get the electorals.
Educate me here – what am I missing?
HondaV65 on July 27, 2010 at 9:16 PM
Next step: Compulsory voting
Then: Felons and non-citzens in the US given suffrage
dIb on July 27, 2010 at 9:16 PM
(Doing my best The Race Card impression by commenting on my own comment):
For example, would it be constitutional for the Massachusetts legislature to vote to give its slate of electors to the popular vote winner in New York?
The answer to that is clearly, “No.”
So how far can they go?
If it comes to it, we’ll see.
I just pray we don’t have a Supreme Court packed with nine “wise Latinas” when they hear the case.
notropis on July 27, 2010 at 9:17 PM
Why have EVs at all?
ddrintn on July 27, 2010 at 9:18 PM
Is it possible they actually want that provision stripped out of the law?
They can get the law passed by inserting the 270 EV thing, and people will vote for it thinking it will only apply to some future day. Then it gets conveniently removed by the Supreme Court.
sharrukin on July 27, 2010 at 9:19 PM
bluemarlin on July 27, 2010 at 9:19 PM
Certainly not a good idea, but it would, in this case, pretty much guarantee the Dem’s a win virtually forever, unless a whole lot of Republicans move to MA.
GFW on July 27, 2010 at 9:20 PM
I live in Mass, and this potentially disenfranchises our votes! Tar and feather these idiots.
Little Boomer on July 27, 2010 at 9:20 PM
I seem to recall “Yokes of Opression” being thrown off by a colony tired of “Taxation without Representation”.
I must keep looking that up…
KZnextzone on July 27, 2010 at 9:20 PM
The thing is, as I said, this is just eradicating the Electoral College without the messy and lawful constitutional amendment process. There will be no reason for any national candidate to campaign in any other places than the large urban centers.
ddrintn on July 27, 2010 at 9:21 PM
Democrats have to be the stupidest people God ever created. If there was ever an election where the popular vote could go the other way it’s the one coming up in 2012.
Team Obama, their popularity dropping faster than a lead ball from the Tower of London, stand a good chance of planning their election to win electoral votes and losing the popular vote, typical for Democrats since they always fight the last election.
Can you imagine the turmoil in Blue/Blue State Massachusetts, if Obama’s opposition wins the popular vote and Massachusetts law costs Obama the electoral vote? How stupid is it to change the way your state casts it’s electoral votes while the remainder of the country does it the other way.
There is a way to do it, a constitutional amendment, but Democrats wouldn’t want to do it that way, that would be above board and all.
Isn’t this the same state that changed the way Senators were appointed, if the sitting senator left for some reason, when a republican was in office and then changed it back when a Democrat was in office. Oh yes, of course it’s them. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.
bflat879 on July 27, 2010 at 9:21 PM
That just sounds insane to me and I’m actually familiar with most of the past proposals to reform the electoral college (misspent youth). I can understand embracing the congressional plan, some variant thereof or even some form of runoff plan, but to completely sacrifice the interests of your state strikes me as insane. I knew Democrats hated Federalism, but… damn, this takes it to another level. But what do I know.. I still think we were better off when state legislatures appointed senators and we enjoyed the benefits of something that approached layer cake federalism. Well, we can forget marble cake.. we’re in pineapple upside down territory now.
Stickeehands on July 27, 2010 at 9:22 PM
Weird sh*t always happens while I’m in the state.
JammieWearingFool on July 27, 2010 at 9:23 PM
The Dems are really stupid b/c it is a good move for the Republicans seeing as we aren’t going to win Mass anyway.
lavell12 on July 27, 2010 at 9:23 PM
Absolutely agree.
ddrintn on July 27, 2010 at 9:23 PM
Work with the math some and you’ll see it’s the opposite. Right now, once a candidate gets 50% of a states vote that state does no more for them. If they want more electoral votes they have to also appeal to 50% in other states, states with different interests. So candidates campaign seriously even in states with small populations and diverse agendas. With national popular voting, a candidate can prosper by getting more votes in states he already has 50% in. Instead of caring about Nebraska, he can campaign to pick up more votes in Mass and NYC.
exception on July 27, 2010 at 9:24 PM
I wonder if a citizen from Mass can sue to have this overturned? A Mass resident would have standing, no?
joejm65 on July 27, 2010 at 9:25 PM
HondaV65 on July 27, 2010 at 9:16 PM
Cato and Heritage have two good essays on why the EC is important, especially to federalism, but for other reasons also. An excerpt from a Cato essay:
Firefly_76 on July 27, 2010 at 9:25 PM
If you have a national popular vote, goodbye nationwide campaigning. Goodbye taking stands on issues in other states (yucca mountain, Hanford, build this interstate or block that dam)
What would happen is this:
The dems would have insanely corrupt GOTV in about 10 metro areas, and win
Obama could say “everyone in the 10 biggest cities, all black people, and all people under 25 get a tax break. Everyone else gets a huge tax increase”
And he’d win
Here’s a (serious) counter question:
Why have STATES? What’s the point if states don’t do anything different? Seriously. Why not just have counties
picklesgap on July 27, 2010 at 9:26 PM
another reason to not pick Romney.
lavell12 on July 27, 2010 at 9:26 PM
Nailed it.
Because it’s unconstitutional. The constitution provided the exclusive power to select the president. It also provided the exclusive method by which it operates. The Ninth and Tenth Amendments are particularly appropriate here because there is no mechanism in the federal constitution for proxy voting. Therefore, the electoral college mechanism must be done exactly as the constitution requires – otherwise a serious question of legitimacy is created.
platypus on July 27, 2010 at 9:26 PM
First of all, the Electoral College gives extra weight to the SMALL states. Wyoming, for example, gets 3 electoral votes, thanks to the fact that they get one for each senator, plus the one for their representative.
Second of all, the Electoral College helps preserve what little we have left of the Federal system. The president is president of the United States, not of America, as Daniel Foster at NRO’s The Corner reminds us. For example, in 2000, the Florida Legislature was preparing to send its own slate of Electors to the College, as is their right, before the Supreme Court intervened with Bush v. Gore.
Thirdly, it’s the way the Constitution is written. Changing that should require a Constitutional Amendment, which requires the votes of 3/4 of the states, not the 20-something states that might get you to 270 electoral votes.
Fourthly, it keeps a candidate from being to parochialized in his/her support (like if 99% of New Yorkers want somebody, that’s the same as if 50.1% of New Yorkers want him/her. The candidate thus needs to get support of many different constituencies in many different states.)
notropis on July 27, 2010 at 9:27 PM
Well, if all the lib states do this, it can only help the Pubs. Not that I support it. It’s one more attempt to go around our constitution. With out the electoral college, cities will now have all the power to control our nation. That’s were the Presidents will campaign. Small town and middle America will be finished.
If you like New York, LA, Pittsburgh and Philly, you’ll love America when those cities are the ones controlling the national agenda.
JellyToast on July 27, 2010 at 9:27 PM
Ever get the feeling this is all going to end really badly sooner rather than later?
TheBigOldDog on July 27, 2010 at 9:29 PM
Things are really starting to look bad for the Gore campaign.
Greek Fire on July 27, 2010 at 9:30 PM
This is actually good news for the GOP
The GOP would never win Massachusetts, but they will now if the GOP wins the popular vote
picklesgap on July 27, 2010 at 9:33 PM
Texas says go to hell, Massachusetts.
Anything choosass is fer, Texas is agin.
Which is why I make my home in Texas.
NoDonkey on July 27, 2010 at 9:37 PM
Yeah, that’s the first thing I thought of reading this. How can states do this and not be violating the Constitution?
JetBoy on July 27, 2010 at 9:39 PM
The Electoral College is genius.
SlaveDog on July 27, 2010 at 9:40 PM
*Echoing somewhere in the US of A*.
in Boehners voice,
‘Hell No’!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
canopfor on July 27, 2010 at 9:42 PM
Me thinks,this will be politically advantageous,to the party
that wins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
canopfor on July 27, 2010 at 9:43 PM
Am I missing something or is this like saying don’t bother campaigning here what ever the rest of the country wants is okay with us?
This is a truly bizarre reaction to the 2000 election. And unless demographics change a whole lot will never matter a wit!
As things stand now MA would never go red any way. So the only thing that would change is that MA could go Red. Wouldn’t that be funny?
petunia on July 27, 2010 at 9:43 PM
Dear gawd I hope he does run in ’12…I know it’s a loooongshot, but I can dream…
JetBoy on July 27, 2010 at 9:43 PM
And why even have Presidential elections in Massachusetts? Why don’t they just permanently declare the Dem candidate the winner?
SlaveDog on July 27, 2010 at 9:43 PM
The Constitution leaves to the state legislatures how to choose the state’s electors.
exception on July 27, 2010 at 9:45 PM
Please please please don’t blame me.
(But now you understand my alias.)
MassVictim on July 27, 2010 at 9:45 PM
Next they will vote that big states should get more representatives in the SENATE than smaller states.
Some people just really don’t understand how our government is set up and why.
petunia on July 27, 2010 at 9:46 PM
You owe me a keyboard.
platypus on July 27, 2010 at 9:46 PM
You’ve got the Weird Stink™ on you.
You need a ShamWow to get it off
blatantblue on July 27, 2010 at 9:48 PM
It’s not unknown. Massachusetts went for Reagan twice, elected Scott Brown, and 4 of its last 5 governors were Republicans.
MassVictim on July 27, 2010 at 9:48 PM
But I do not believe that it gives the legislatures the authority to tell them how to vote nor does it give them the authority to order them to delegate their votes to an entity uncontrolled by the people of the state. These are sovereign states, meaning that each state is the end of the line.
No lateral passes permitted.
platypus on July 27, 2010 at 9:49 PM
The 14th Amendment might get in the way of this:
I would like to see someone challenge this law under the basis that it denies MA voters the right to vote for their Electors, so they should lose their representation in proportion to MA voters as a fraction of all voters in the country.
The Monster on July 27, 2010 at 9:53 PM
So, if the winner of the popular vote in 2012 is a Republican, then Massachusetts is gonna be fine with automatically handing over all their electoral votes?
Or will they do it only if the winner of the popular vote is a Dem?
coldwarrior on July 27, 2010 at 9:53 PM
Gotcha. Thanks.
Those Germans always make good stuff.
(Of course now TimTebow is going to think we’re the same person again) :P
JetBoy on July 27, 2010 at 9:54 PM
What does Erwin Chemerinsky think?
/
Inanemergencydial on July 27, 2010 at 9:54 PM
And shouldn’t Attorney General Holder be on his way to Massachusetts as we speak…obvious case of preemption here.
coldwarrior on July 27, 2010 at 9:54 PM
We’re communists, too.
blatantblue on July 27, 2010 at 9:55 PM
That’s exactly what’s coming, its already been suggested. And, they full well understand how our government is set up and why; they don’t care…they want PROGRESS!!!!!
Firefly_76 on July 27, 2010 at 9:55 PM
BWAHAHAHHAHA! I’m sure crr666 will be along any minute to tell us.
Firefly_76 on July 27, 2010 at 9:57 PM
Don’t worry about it.
When it looks like Obama will lose the popular vote in 2012, the Mass. legislature will simply change it back.
Expediency is one of their strong points.
Captain Kirock on July 27, 2010 at 9:57 PM
Yes I am familiar with the moderate record of Massachusetts…/sarc
MA is the very model of common sense government wouldn’t you agree?
By the way, where do YOU park your yacht?
petunia on July 27, 2010 at 9:57 PM
Mark Levin says that filibustering of judges will continue until the GOP filibusters a Democratic nominee. Similarly, this type of thing will go the way of the Dodo the day a traditionally blue state sees its electors go to someone like, say, Sarah Palin.
Kafir on July 27, 2010 at 9:58 PM
This state law will not hold constitutional muster.
thmcbb on July 27, 2010 at 10:02 PM
There is no guarantee that the popular vote can be counted completely and verified in every state before the Electoral college meets in December, so this whole scheme is ridiculous. A delay in one state that’s part of the new “popular vote” bloc of states will nullify the electoral votes in all of them.
Emperor Norton on July 27, 2010 at 10:03 PM
Personally, I like the Maine/Nebraska formula for awarding electoral votes. Candidates do not compete in states where they have a clear lead, and know they will receive all those electoral votes. But the MA version really sucks.
GnuBreed on July 27, 2010 at 10:03 PM
haha
Not me, I’m a Tsarist.
JetBoy on July 27, 2010 at 10:04 PM
Seems to me, the blue states simply feel too constrained by the Constitution in implementing their progressive ideals, and are simply choosing to ignore the document when it interferes.
Really, we have become two nations, the blue states pursuing a socialist European nanny state, and the red states standing by the constitutional republic as founded. It’s time to start talking about a peaceful parting of the ways – neither side can accept the other since they are diametrically opposed in every respect.
A nation divided cannot stand for long, there is no middle ground, let us divide and let the best ideals win.
Rebar on July 27, 2010 at 10:04 PM
I might as well chime in with I hope Massachusetts’ attempt to rig the system in favor of Democrats for president works as well as their blatant attempt to rig the system so only Dems would be selected as senator. Hey, how’d that one work out? :)
Dave_d on July 27, 2010 at 10:06 PM
Kerry announced today that he will pay the sales/excise tax on his yacht.
GnuBreed on July 27, 2010 at 10:07 PM
Is the constitutional amendment process extinct or is everyone too lazy now?
rickyricardo on July 27, 2010 at 10:07 PM
At the moment, we are represented in the U.S. Senate by a guy with an (R) after his name. I have to desperately grasp at any thread of hope, no matter how thin.
MassVictim on July 27, 2010 at 10:09 PM
Seems to me the only states doing this now are solid Dem states. Thus, change could only be for the better for the Republicans. This incremental process they are using would seem to hurt them. It only works if big close states that tend to lean slightly Republican (but shift) would sign on.
tommyboy on July 27, 2010 at 10:11 PM
If Algore had won his so-called homestate of Tennessee, Florida wouldn’t have mattered.
Remember this, people.
ladyingray on July 27, 2010 at 10:14 PM
That doesn’t even make sense. If they were trying to do away with the electoral college without actually doing away with it, why don’t they award their EVs as a proportion to the vote instead of winner take all?
Seems questionably unconstitutional, that one state would try to force a different state into a recount, because I’m sure all 50 states would have different rules.
clement on July 27, 2010 at 10:16 PM
Nope, they can’t What they also don’t get (thanks to Steven Den Beste for this BTW) is that you can’t say Al would have won if we had the popular vote. The reason is fairly simple, both Bush and Gore would have campaigned differently and that would have changed how people voted. (So for all we know in the alternate reality where it’s popular vote Bush campaigns in such a way to actually win the popular vote and lose the electoral vote. Dems in that alternate universe also complain.)
Dave_d on July 27, 2010 at 10:17 PM
So why campaign in Mass?
Fred 2 on July 27, 2010 at 10:18 PM
So if a candidate LOSES in Massachusetts, but wins the national popular vote, then that candidate will get all of Massachusetts electoral votes?
SoulGlo on July 27, 2010 at 10:18 PM
Well to be fair that thing with the governors only started because the Dems ran John “slots” Silber for governor and man could he say some stupid stuff for a smart guy. (Just google for silber and “your time to go” to see what I mean.) Oh, and they did pull out the stops this last election with our own Obama simulant, or as I call Gov. Patrick “Barry Lite”.
Dave_d on July 27, 2010 at 10:21 PM
Kerry also announced nearly six years ago he’d be releasing all his military records.
If I were the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, I’d take possession of that yacht immediately as collateral for the unpaid tax obligation.
coldwarrior on July 27, 2010 at 10:22 PM
Its simple, to destroy a Republic make it a Democracy…to think MA was an original state
Conservative Voice on July 27, 2010 at 10:27 PM
Not if they get 5 liberals like the ones currently on the Supreme court.
whbates on July 27, 2010 at 10:27 PM
Thanks Ap, that’s what I was looking for. When I first read this, it seemed as though Mass was going for it -I didn’t realize the contingency. That’s where the confusion came in; it almost seemed as though they were forfeiting the vote of their citizens since regardless of how they voted “as a State” the EV’s would go to the winner of the popular vote- evidently determined by the remaining 56 states.
BKeyser on July 27, 2010 at 10:28 PM
Not to mention that it’s unconstitutional.
lorien1973 on July 27, 2010 at 10:28 PM
This is hilarious. If they ever achieve their goal, how long do you think they’re going to keep the system in place after the first time they’re forced to cast their electoral votes for the Republican?
joe_doufu on July 27, 2010 at 10:30 PM
Not to worry. If the outcome were not to their liking, the good pols of Massachusetts would just change the law.
They changed the law regarding senatorial succession twice to please the Democratic majority…..and to keep them in power.
GarandFan on July 27, 2010 at 10:32 PM
Constitution? We don’t need no stinkin’ Constitution!
stonemeister on July 27, 2010 at 10:38 PM
The electoral college was designed by the Founding Fathers to prevent tyrant-wanna-bees like BHO from being elected.
If Hitler won an election, the EC is in place as a final brake. They failed to even audit the paperwork in 2008.
Who is John Galt on July 27, 2010 at 10:38 PM
Vote Often
Rea1ityCheck on July 27, 2010 at 10:39 PM
crr6 on July 27, 2010 at 10:41 PM
wait for it…
wait for it…
Inanemergencydial on July 27, 2010 at 10:41 PM
a moment too late…darnit!
Inanemergencydial on July 27, 2010 at 10:41 PM
Send in the DOJ civil rights division — they’ll make sure those lily-white MA voters aren’t disenfranchised!!
Oh……wait………
cthulhu on July 27, 2010 at 10:56 PM
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