Journolist, Day 6: Heroes

posted at 8:48 am on July 27, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

On the sixth day of Journolist, Daily Caller gave to me … recognition that at least a few people acted with integrity.  The Daily Caller appears to be wrapping up its Journolist coverage by highlighting the listserv members that took it upon themselves to remind others of ethics and limits within even opinion journalism.  That roster includes Journolist founder Ezra Klein, who tried to keep the listserv to its original purpose:

Although he now denies that lots of informal — and some formal — coordination took place on Journolist, to his credit listserv founder Ezra Klein was a force for moderation. He stopped others from organizing a weekly message, stopped people from organizing open letters on Journolist (after they did so on one occasion), wouldn’t let those currently working in the government on the list, and seemed more reasonable than many in his remarks.

Dan Froomkin, previously at the Washington Post and now at HuffPo, gets credit for defending a story published at the latter under his editorial control that exposed some of the machinations between the Obama administration and the pharmaceutical companies on ObamaCare.  The deal was unpopular with the Left and the entire bill was unpopular with the Right, and Journolisters complained that the story made ObamaCare less likely to pass.  Froomkin scolded them in a brief but telling reply:

“I’m awfully sorry this makes Obama look bad. Not my problem,” said Froomkin.

James Surowiecki offered a longer exposition on the same theme after Journolisters started debating whether the media should report on Fort Hood terrorist Nidal Hasan’s ties to radical Islamist terrorists.  When Luke Mitchell of Harper’s argued that reporting on the ties would lead to something “alarmingly dangerous, such as the idea that there is a large conspiracy of Islamists at work in the United States,” Surowiecki reminded Mitchell and others of the entire purpose of journalism, emphasis mine:

“I find it bizarre that anyone would argue that an accurate description of what happened is somehow pointless,” Surowiecki said. “That is, that it’s not useful to offer up an accurate picture of Hasan’s actions because nothing obvious follows from it. We want, as much as possible, to have a clear picture of what’s actually going on in the world. Describing Hasan as a violent Islamist terrorist is much closer to the truth than describing him as a disturbed individual.”

One has to wonder why a journalist from Harper’s — and other publications — would need that reminder, especially about terrorism.

Jeffrey Toobin of CNN and the New Yorker also gets added to the list for his generally moderate tone and his defense of Rush Limbaugh.  Toobin also warned the listserv of the futility of comparing Tea Party activists to Nazis, a warning that apparently went unheeded.  Michael Tomasky gets an “honorable mention” despite involving himself in some messaging coordination, for both defending General David Petraeus during MoveOn’s “Betray-Us” campaign on “moral grounds,” and for reminding the list that even opinion journalists have to demonstrate enough independence for credibility.

If this is the end of the Journolist series, it’s been fun and informative about the individuals on the list, but with a few exceptions looks more like a deranged debating society than a serious threat in itself.  The Joe Klein episode, where he passed off Journolist thoughts as his own in a published article, is probably the worst breach of ethics, and also demonstrated how that kind of message coordination can multiply through the mainstream media.  The attempt to convince others on the list to spike the Jeremiah Wright story also calls into question editorial decisions made at the time, but it’s also true that most of the people on this list didn’t have that authority at their publications; Froomkin is one of the exceptions.  Otherwise, it’s mainly interesting for its look into the mindsets of those who provide the news to readers, with their proposals of smearing opponents as racists strictly for partisan gain, and apparent ease in others in demanding government control of news organizations they don’t like while accusing others of fascism.  Awareness of irony seems to have been in short supply on Journolist.

There weren’t many heroes on this list, and perhaps people should keep that in mind when reading their work.

Update: “Heroes” was Daily Caller’s term, and one I believe they used comparatively rather than literally.  I should have been more clear; acting with integrity should be expected, not evidence of heroism.  Nevertheless, I think the Daily Caller acted with integrity in highlighting these exchanges and giving these people their due.

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

I am sorry if this Journolist racket makes Obama look bad.

seven on July 27, 2010 at 8:50 AM

Under the old news model, there was competition to confirm a story and be the first to break with the story. Now they hustle and with secret handshakes agree to ignore a story. This has been a windfall for Rush, Hannity, WSJ and Fox news.

seven on July 27, 2010 at 8:53 AM

A modicum of journalistic integrity while participating in an exercise contrary to journalistic integrity makes one a hero?

DaydreamBeliever on July 27, 2010 at 8:54 AM

James Surowiecki offered a longer exposition on the same theme after Journolisters started debating whether the media should report on Fort Hood terrorist Nidal Hasan’s ties to radical Islamist terrorists.

Plotting to fool the public about Islam is even worse than smearing Palin.

Disturb the Universe on July 27, 2010 at 8:54 AM

Were the members of journolist attempting to persuade the public to accept a point of view, or were they trying to persuade each other?

Skandia Recluse on July 27, 2010 at 8:55 AM

I am sorry if this Journolist racket makes Obama look bad.

Obama doesn’t need any help to look bad; he does a fine job of that all by himself. I still say that these journolisters are just mad because they got caught.

College Prof on July 27, 2010 at 8:56 AM

I guess I’ll never understand why Ed seeks to minimize this story into something less than “What the Right secretly suspected and more.”

What happened with Journolist is worse than anything I imagined about the media. I sort of suspected it was just institutional echoing: they’re all leftists so they came up with similar wacky stories and talking points while flakking for their hero Bambi. Instead it turns out to be a machieavellian attack machine colluding, even against interests, with Democrats in power.

Why Ed. thinks that’s no big deal is a mystery.

Lehosh on July 27, 2010 at 9:00 AM

scum of the earth. I wouldn’t even give them the courtesy of scraping them off the bottom of my shoe.

jbh45 on July 27, 2010 at 9:01 AM

I’d like to expand on Ed’s comment that there were few heroes. That is a key point. Objective journalists would have been arguing for ethical behavior. Most of the heroics were really concerns about overreach which is self-centered and not heroic. The fact someone would defend General Patreus (sic) for example is really just having enough self-awareness to know the blowback and credibility hit that the left eventually got (see truthers for an example on our side of this). None of these people joined the list to increase their ability to be objective journalists and THAT is a big thing not to miss. I saw many conservative writers I think for example John Fund who said “I wouldn’t join such a conservative list because it is basically unethical.

Conan on July 27, 2010 at 9:02 AM

Plotting to fool the public about Islam is even worse than smearing Palin.

Disturb the Universe on July 27, 2010 at 8:54 AM

Smearing Palin hurts her and her family, devoted supporters and undermined the credibility of the Press.

Lying about terrorists and Islam puts the whole country in mortal danger.

TheBigOldDog on July 27, 2010 at 9:03 AM

Why Ed. thinks that’s no big deal is a mystery.

Lehosh on July 27, 2010 at 9:00 AM

He doesn’t want to anger the cool kids, they may not let him sit at their table during lunch.

thomasaur on July 27, 2010 at 9:03 AM

Acting with the minimum amount of honesty we should be able to expect isn’t heroic, Ed.

aengus on July 27, 2010 at 9:04 AM

James Surowiecki offered a longer exposition on the same theme after Journolisters started debating whether the media should report on Fort Hood terrorist Nidal Hasan’s ties to radical Islamist terrorists. When Luke Mitchell of Harper’s argued that reporting on the ties would lead to something “alarmingly dangerous, such as the idea that there is a large conspiracy of Islamists at work in the United States,” Surowiecki reminded Mitchell and others of the entire purpose of journalism…

The thing to note on this one is that while Surowiecki may have scolded Mitchell about trying to hide/downplay Hasan’s ties in a debate on Journolist, in the real world Mitchell’s point of view won the debate. The Fort Bliss shooter’s radical Islamist ties were played down in virtually all of the usual big media outlets. The people making that decision may not have been official members of Journolist, and they may not have even had conversations with the more partisan posters on Journolist. But the thought process is the same and the end result — to play down something in order to avoid hurting Obama — ended up being the same.

Liberal group-think existed years before Ezra Klein came up with his online message board, and while there’s no doubt already a replacement for Journolist, you really don’t need it for a bunch of like-minded people to think up the same narative.

jon1979 on July 27, 2010 at 9:04 AM

While some urged members to level indiscriminate charges of racism,
==========================

Yup!
—-
During the 2008 Elections,with the so called vandalism
at Liberal campaign offices,as well as stories of racism,
and with the latest revelations of coordination,with
Journolists.

Just cross-check the names against the stories,during that
period,and along with the googling,Doug Ross was already a
step ahead!!
===================================================

Heres the story I googled:

Racist Incidents Give Some Obama Campaigners Pause

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/05/13/ST2008051301359.html?sid=ST2008051301359
———————-
And,

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2010/07/trip-through-archives-what-kind-of.html

elaborates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

canopfor on July 27, 2010 at 9:04 AM

Journolist is proof positive that the mainstream media is biased towards the Left. That may seem like a no brainer to anyone with a brain, but liberals don’t have functioning brains so the existence of the list, and the emails already published, need to be remembered for exactly what they are.

There are liberals who don’t know the media is biased towards the Left, and there are zillions who don’t believe that (they believe the media is biased towards the Right), and the rest of them lie about it.

As far as Ezra Klein and his integrity is concerned, gimme a break. Anyone who has ever been involved on a message board or forum can recognize when the Admin gets his panties in a twist. Hero? Unbelievable.

Jaynie59 on July 27, 2010 at 9:05 AM

Collusion Cahoots!!!!!!!!

canopfor on July 27, 2010 at 9:06 AM

I think this series was/is great. The press has been given total hands off treatment while deciding what does or doesn’t get relayed to the public. They aren’t elected and their views may or may not influence what they write. Human nature would indicate that personal beliefs have to color their work, so I am fine with learning a bit more about them. I doubt any of them were harmed by this series, maybe Mr. Klein but considering “Primary Colors” I don’t think anyone is surprised by his behavior. Mr. Plateglass came off as a touch unhinged.

Cindy Munford on July 27, 2010 at 9:08 AM

It seems that all those opinion pieces neglected the tag-line at the bottom. “This column provided free of charge to the elect Obama Campaign and, heck yes, he approves of this message.” As an in-kind contribution, they surely ran afoul of FEC regulations.

Jeff2161 on July 27, 2010 at 9:11 AM

“One has to wonder why a journalist from Harper’s — and other publications — would need that reminder, especially about terrorism.”

Because these journalists, like politicians of the left are idiots, very simply!

georgeofthedesert on July 27, 2010 at 9:14 AM

Mr. Plateglass came off as a touch unhinged.

Cindy Munford on July 27, 2010 at 9:08 AM

Spencer Ackerman is now a hero. According to liberals like Kirsten Powers nobody EVER heard of this guy before the list was published. I predict a 6 figure book deal. Maybe even 7.

Andy Levy defended him last week, so I guess he can’t be all bad.

Jaynie59 on July 27, 2010 at 9:14 AM

What really gets me,is that most people on this blog,went through the trials and tribulations,the ups and downs of
these news stories,and for the most part,all of these sto
ries,especially directed at the right were off in na-na
land of impossible,—————and yet,stories of Team
Obama were portrayed as impossible,and entertaining them,
you were a rightwing nutjob,and yet,they were TRUE,but do
wn played,and if anyone tried to dig deeper,you were ride
culed and what-not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unfreaggin-Unbelievable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

canopfor on July 27, 2010 at 9:15 AM

recognition that at least a few people acted with integrity.

So this is what journalism has come to…acknowledging them for doing something that should be an everyday, ordinary, exercise in journalism.
Quasi, moderate reporting is praised as being something exceptional…showing restraint from promoting excessive liberal ideals, becomes a battle, and when moderation wins, they are deemed “heroes”.
Shameful, embarrassing, and hard to believe that many of these even retain their job.
Only in academia, or journalism, would this be tolerated, which is why these nobody’s, these despicable beings, can only find refuge in those to occupations.

right2bright on July 27, 2010 at 9:17 AM

Although he now denies that lots of informal — and some formal — coordination took place on Journolist, to his credit listserv founder Ezra Klein was a force for moderation.

Journolist Rule # 5:

Ezra Klein: “Collusion by deceiving, misleading, or defrauding others or misrepresenting the independence of the relationship between the colluding parties is strictly forbidden.” wink wink

/

Rovin on July 27, 2010 at 9:17 AM

Acting with the minimum amount of honesty we should be able to expect isn’t heroic, Ed.

[aengus on July 27, 2010 at 9:04 AM]

It is if you’re a lily-livered coward worried that your straying from the narrative might result in your head being smashed through a plate glass window by some ankle-biting doofus.

Dusty on July 27, 2010 at 9:17 AM

As an in-kind contribution, they surely ran afoul of FEC regulations.

Jeff2161 on July 27, 2010 at 9:11 AM

I wouldn’t expect any investigation of any kind.

I’m still wondering where all those donations to the campaign website came from since they disabled the security feature that ruled out phony names from other countries.

Brian1972 on July 27, 2010 at 9:18 AM

I guess I’ll never understand why Ed seeks to minimize this story into something less than “What the Right secretly suspected and more.”

What happened with Journolist is worse than anything I imagined about the media. I sort of suspected it was just institutional echoing: they’re all leftists so they came up with similar wacky stories and talking points while flakking for their hero Bambi. Instead it turns out to be a machieavellian attack machine colluding, even against interests, with Democrats in power.

Why Ed. thinks that’s no big deal is a mystery.

Lehosh on July 27, 2010 at 9:00 AM

And one I don’t understand either.

It’s very perplexing.

Cylor on July 27, 2010 at 9:19 AM

Obama looks bad enough on his own. He doesn’t need help, but the cover-up helps a lot…..

DL13 on July 27, 2010 at 9:19 AM

Ed — Words matter. Heroes? Misplaced adoration. How sad that minimally meeting the ethical standards of a profession makes one heroic.

publiuspen on July 27, 2010 at 9:20 AM

Just read this from Quotes of The Day:

The real story here is that right wing media are engaged in a coordinated, conspiratorial effort to pretend that J-List proves that there is a Vast Left-wing Media Conspiracy, when the evidence conclusively shows otherwise.

That’s Greg Sargent of The Washington Post. See? Liar.

Jaynie59 on July 27, 2010 at 9:20 AM

Maggie Mahar, a consistent voice of sanity in the Trig Palin thread, should be on the list as well.

Pablo on July 27, 2010 at 9:20 AM

July has been a good month for Tucker, the Daily Caller, and the New Media…

mjbrooks3 on July 27, 2010 at 9:21 AM

“Primary Colors” I don’t think anyone is surprised by his behavior. Mr. Plateglass came off as a touch unhinged.

Cindy Munford on July 27, 2010 at 9:08 AM

Cindy Munford: Ya,Travlota comes out as the filming prop
aganda wing of the Clinton Administration,
who is the Liberal nominee (the hero),who
holds back,damaging dirt,against the other
side,as the hit-job journalists look on in
horror,of,so-called,doing the right thing!!
==========================================================
Primary Colors (1998) More at IMDbPro »

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119942/

canopfor on July 27, 2010 at 9:22 AM

There weren’t many heroes on this list, and perhaps people should keep that in mind when reading their work.

at least a few people acted with integrity.

Ed, I admire your work overall. However, do you need a refresher on the actual definitions of “hero” and “integrity?”

Don’t think “participating in an off-the-record listserve, where many encouraged smearing and coordination, but valiantly calling them back after they leaped off the edge” qualifies.

cs89 on July 27, 2010 at 9:22 AM

The jounolisters forgot that it is all about facts. They became propagandists/jihadis.

antisocial on July 27, 2010 at 9:22 AM

It has been a useful reminder for us conservatives, and it does weaken the great liberal colossus. But there are still many cuts to go before the monster falls.
Randy

williars on July 27, 2010 at 9:22 AM

The Joe Klein episode, where he passed off Journolist thoughts as his own in a published article, is probably the worst breach of ethics, and also demonstrated how that kind of message coordination can multiply through the mainstream media.

I will have to disagree with that one Ed. Please recall the issue regarding Columbia School of Journalism fella, Todd Gitlin.

While other members of the group debated whether to coordinate a pro-Obama message – or, more precisely, whether to concede that such a message was being coordinated — Todd Gitlin of the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism had already made up his mind. Gitlin, whose job is to train the next generation of America’s most elite journalists, wrote this impassioned plea on behalf of the Obama campaign:

“On the question of liberals coordinating, what the hell’s wrong with some critical mass of liberal bloggers & journalists saying the following among themselves:

“McCain lies about his maverick status. Routinely, cavalierly, cynically. Palin lies about her maverick status. Ditto, ditto, ditto. McCain has a wretched temperament. McCain is a warmonger. Palin belongs to a crackpot church and feels warmly about a crackpot party that trashes America.

“Repeat after me:

“McCain lies about his maverick status. Routinely, cavalierly, cynically. Palin lies about her maverick status. Ditto, ditto, ditto. McCain has a wretched temperament. McCain is a warmonger. Palin belongs to a crackpot church and feels warmly about a crackpot party that trashes America.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/07/26/journolist-debates-making-its-coordination-with-obama-explicit/2/#ixzz0utAInfQP

ted c on July 27, 2010 at 9:25 AM

Jaynie59 on July 27, 2010 at 9:14 AM

I am not surprised he’s a hero, these are the same people that think Alan Grayson is great. So now the guy, probably suffering from a Napoleon complex, is famous. Very funny.

Cindy Munford on July 27, 2010 at 9:25 AM

Ed — Words matter. Heroes? Misplaced adoration. How sad that minimally meeting the ethical standards of a profession makes one heroic.

publiuspen on July 27, 2010 at 9:20 AM

publiuspen: Great point,we,er,I know that the Left,
cannot bring themselves to utter,

Hero and Military,in the same sentence!:)

canopfor on July 27, 2010 at 9:25 AM

I think maybe Ed is using the term “heroes” with a touch of sarcasm?

At least I hope so.

None of these people are heroes in any sense of the word, unless it is a jab.

Brian1972 on July 27, 2010 at 9:25 AM

Suspicision of stories from Lefty’s during 2008,
Confirmed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

canopfor on July 27, 2010 at 9:27 AM

“A modicum of journalistic integrity while participating in an exercise contrary to journalistic integrity makes one a hero?”

Sounds bad doesn’t it? A misuse of the word perhaps. But, the point I take away from it is that not all on the list were bad. And despite my gut reaction to dislike all on the list; I now have paused to try and absorb more of the full context. Who are the individuals and what did they do individually. Let the chips fall where they may.

The bad ones will be revealed in their own words. The good ones the same.

I take the label of “hero” as a compliment to those with integrity. Not a comparison to someone running in to a burning building to save a life. There is more to focus on here than splitting hairs on the word hero, no?

Your call.

DWB on July 27, 2010 at 9:27 AM

Acting with the minimum amount of honesty we should be able to expect isn’t heroic, Ed.

aengus on July 27, 2010

You are right, aengus. It’s heroic relative to modern journalism perhaps, but not truly heroic at all. Ed should know better. I expect this level of moral relativism from AP, not Ed.

Extrafishy on July 27, 2010 at 9:29 AM

canopfor on July 27, 2010 at 9:22 AM

Mr. Klein should limit his personal appearances to MSNBC, where all the jokes can be found. I am a bit surprised that he was forgiven for Primary Colors but his ethics are nonexistent.

Cindy Munford on July 27, 2010 at 9:29 AM

Ed, I am surprised that no one is connecting this Journolist thing to the recent passing of C-BS reporter Daniel Schorr. After he kicked the bucket last week, all we heard was how he was a “great journalist” because he “dared to ask tough questions” of those in power.

Of course these obits totally ignored that Schorr also behaved badly as a journalist, such as when he falsely reported that Barry Goldwater was going to Germany to “join up with the right wing there”. They also covered up his leaking of a secret report on illegal activities by the CIA and FBI, which led to his departure from C-BS.

Someone should do an analysis of Schorr’s career and tie it into this story. Would make fascinating reading!

Del Dolemonte on July 27, 2010 at 9:31 AM

Brian1972 on July 27, 2010 at 9:25 AM

There weren’t many heroes on this list, and perhaps people should keep that in mind when reading their work.

Don’t think so, but I hope you’re right.

cs89 on July 27, 2010 at 9:32 AM

I think this list of heroes serves as a good backdrop that contrasts nicely with the rest of the story. This, to me, shows just how bad the JournoList was and answers the concern that it’s a molehill being mistaken for a mountain.

The journalists represent an institutions that — justly or not — is built on the premise of presenting the public with a fair and accurate depiction of the current events. We *could* all go digging to get the full scoop on these events, but the job of the journalist is to save the layman the trouble of having to do that. If the assumption is that we should independently verify everything the news offers us, then the news serves no real purpose.

All analogies breakdown at some point, but the implicit authority of the news media seems analogous to the authority granted to teachers. If news broke that teachers were actively colluding to obfuscate certain uncomfortable facts and subtly push certain extra-curricular agendas, people would, rightfully, be pretty upset. Sure parents and students can double-check everything they’re taught against third party resources, but the point is they shouldn’t have to do that all the time.

Likewise, we, the news media’s audience shouldn’t have to double-check eveything that’s printed…especially by the “reputable” sources. To heap it on even further, though, the whole issue of collusion means that even when we do try to consult third-party references for “fact checking,” it’s hard to know which of those resources are independent. To stretch my (already-stretched?) metaphor, it’s almost as though, not only are the hypothetical teachers plotting together, but the librarians may be in on the scheme as well.

To get back to my point (after too much meandering), seeing the “heroes” in the group reminds us very keenly what’s expected of journalists, and thus, shows us just how much many of them have betrayed our trust.

BlueCollarAstronaut on July 27, 2010 at 9:36 AM

I think maybe Ed is using the term “heroes” with a touch of sarcasm?

At least I hope so.

None of these people are heroes in any sense of the word, unless it is a jab.

Brian1972 on July 27, 2010 at 9:25 AM

I’m afraid he isn’t.

Cylor on July 27, 2010 at 9:36 AM

Excusing these liberals because they weren’t as bad as we thought they were reminds me of the congressional rinos. Lets be careful not to excuse the unethical behavior of the Journolisters. There are no heroes, only different levels of ethical violations against the american people. Keep it in perspective.

toongoon on July 27, 2010 at 9:44 AM

Heroes. Pah!

I can see it now. “This year we have added a new category to the Annual Pat-On-The-Back Awards: the male and female heroes – those who chide other professionals for outrageous breaches of ethics”

You know it’s coming…

Peri Winkle on July 27, 2010 at 9:47 AM

ted c on July 27, 2010 at 9:25 AM

Ed:

I agree with this comment. Although your post today may not constitute a complete summary of the objectionable facts about Journolist, I think you omitted one very important fact: Todd Gitlin, an adjunct professor at the Columbia School of Journalism. Indeed, in yesterday’s post, you seemed to go to fairly great pains to mention Gitlin in both the body of your post and, later, in an update.

ted c quotes a good bit of your commentary, but the point cannot be emphasized enough that Gitlin teaches future journalists. I don’t know what course(s) he teaches and I don’t know the content of his course(s). Nevertheless, I simply cannot believe a professor advocating such alarming journalistic approaches is teaching at a school of such ostensible prominence. It’s an absolute disgrace. He ought to be fired by CSJ.

Again, I understand that today’s post may not have been a complete list of significant sins. By I think you omitted one of the bigger and scarier ones.

BuckeyeSam on July 27, 2010 at 9:48 AM

Shadow media aiding a shadow government.

Kissmygrits on July 27, 2010 at 9:49 AM

Heroes do extraordinary things. Journalists should get no credit for doing what is within their ethical, legal, and moral bounds.

ted c on July 27, 2010 at 9:51 AM

So ezra klein was just a douchebag on a listserve full of enemas? A real hero, that one.

Monica on July 27, 2010 at 9:54 AM

I guess I’ll never understand why Ed seeks to minimize this story into something less than “What the Right secretly suspected and more.”

How is that minimizing anything?

blatantblue on July 27, 2010 at 9:54 AM

I think a ‘hero’ would have never been in the journolist.

tinkerthinker on July 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM

Ed,

Appreciate the update. Still wondering whether you think Ezra Klein acted with “integrity?”

cs89 on July 27, 2010 at 9:57 AM

Damn, I was looking forward to many more Daily Caller stories about Journolist.

And li’l Ezra should receive no credit from anyone. He founded the thing, and any caution on his part about message coordination is probably CYA rather than genuine distaste for the activity.

Missy on July 27, 2010 at 10:02 AM

1) Most of the Journolisto postings were mundane. Certainly. Most of life is mundane. I’m on a law librarian listserv and probably 99% of the postings are mundane.

2) What of the unmundane postings. Shouldn’t they represent a broad spectrum of opinions? Why the self-selection to only liberal/leftist journalists if it is simply going to be for mundane purposes? Why not allow Tucker Carlson onto the list if it only going to be for getting contacts of experts? He’s co-hosted a CNN show, he’s not a no-name reporter for a one-horse town newspaper.

3) Certainly Ezra Klein did put the kaboosh on a conspiracy to smear Palin (IIRC, there’s so much corruption with Journolisto it is hard to keep everything straight.) But he did it simply because he didn’t want that to be a function of the list, rather than the idea that journalists — not opinion columnists — should not be coordinating a message, or that they should have a message in the first place rather than reporting news.

4) Did anyone denouce Stewart Ackerman’s use of the race card? Fred Barnes or Karl Rove – it doesn’t matter who, just call them a racist. Not expose them for being a racist based upon facts, such as speeches given (and if you look at the full text of Sherrily Sherrod’s speech, she still does view the world through a racial prism), but just throw the epithet out there. That is wrong even for an opinion columnist, to falsely label someone. It should be denounced. Did anyone call Stewart to account for it and denounce him over it?

A very weak brew of “heroes” there.

rbj on July 27, 2010 at 10:02 AM

canopfor on July 27, 2010 at 9:22 AM
=======================
Mr. Klein should limit his personal appearances to MSNBC, where all the jokes can be found. I am a bit surprised that he was forgiven for Primary Colors but his ethics are nonexistent.

Cindy Munford on July 27, 2010 at 9:29 AM

Cindy Munford: I agree with you on that point!:)

canopfor on July 27, 2010 at 10:11 AM

It’s rather interesting that journalists who act like they’re supposed to act in the first place . . . are termed “heroes”.

least1 on July 27, 2010 at 10:21 AM

Ed – this smacks of more “relativism.” The Daily Caller and yourself are calling some of these people “heroes” because relative to all the rest of them on Journolist they acted with supposed journalistic integrity. My problem is that the whole Journolist premise and existence had nothing of integrity about it. This type of a listserv serves no purpose but for people in the journalistic profession to congregate and co-ordinate messaging. There is nothing of integrity about it. It promotes journalistic laziness and group-think.

KickandSwimMom on July 27, 2010 at 10:24 AM

If one of those liberal journalists reads the series and looks in the mirror and says, who the hell am I, the Daily Caller has won.

PattyJ on July 27, 2010 at 10:26 AM

Although he now denies that lots of informal — and some formal — coordination took place on Journolist, to his credit listserv founder Ezra Klein was a force for moderation. He stopped others from organizing a weekly message, stopped people from organizing open letters on Journolist (after they did so on one occasion), wouldn’t let those currently working in the government on the list, and seemed more reasonable than many in his remarks.

How do we know that Journolist members didn’t conspire (for lack of a better word) off the list, but were enabled to do so by Journolist?

Klein doesn’t get a pass for this unless he kicked the offending members off the list.

JohnTant on July 27, 2010 at 10:33 AM

Heroes?? Maybe on a day when they had some resemblence of a conscious they did the right thing, but a hero for a day is not necessarily the mark of a real hero who goes through life doing what’s right. I mean what honest and/or dishonest things have these alleged heroes done with the reat of their lives?

docdave on July 27, 2010 at 10:42 AM

“Heroes” was Daily Caller’s term, and one I believe they used comparatively rather than literally. I should have been more clear; acting with integrity should be expected, not evidence of heroism. Nevertheless, I think the Daily Caller acted with integrity in highlighting these exchanges and giving these people their due.

I’ll accept that “Dan Froomkin, James Surowiecki, Jeffrey Toobin, Michael Tomasky — and founder Ezra Klein” acted with some integrity in comity with a general understanding of journalistic ethics during these isolated instances Daily Caller has allowed us to see, with the necessary proviso that DC has given us all their comments wrt the subjects DC published on.

But it should be kept in mind that these are only individual instances of acting with integrity and everyone has a good day at least once in while.

I see no reason to allow it to go unsaid that the passive individual act exhibited by DC of Ezra’s integrity should somehow put him in the fuller category of journolisters who act with integrity, unless as the founder, DC can show he’d canned some people (eg Ackerman) for character unbecoming membership.

Finally, I’d be much more likely to see Dan Froomkin, James Surowiecki, Jeffrey Toobin, and Michael Tomasky as people who act with journalistic integrity if they had left journolist after having seen the degree to which this group encouraged filtering and framing news to the public through ostensibly unbiased organizations so that it met with their own political leanings. Does DC have that evidence? Unless they do and show it, I’m left with the impression the above listed are not much different than their uglier counterparts than the subdued, aloof, old rich are different from the brazen, high-profile, new rich.

Dusty on July 27, 2010 at 10:45 AM

Heroes. Pah!

I can see it now. “This year we have added a new category to the Annual Pat-On-The-Back Awards: the male and female heroes – those who chide other professionals for outrageous breaches of ethics”

You know it’s coming…

Peri Winkle on July 27, 2010 at 9:47 AM

Isn’t that the truth…. and this makes me wonder if there has been even a shred of blowback from the employers or associates of these bums.

Except for a quick back pedal from Sarah Spitz by NPR – I’ve not heard much about the rest of these egregious acts.

tru2tx on July 27, 2010 at 10:54 AM

it’s been fun and informative about the individuals on the list, but with a few exceptions looks more like a deranged debating society than a serious threat in itself.

HotAir is becoming more Frumian by the day. Plotting to smear random people in order to gain power over the USA is a serious threat.

faraway on July 27, 2010 at 10:58 AM

The list of plotters and ‘heroes’.

Schadenfreude on July 27, 2010 at 11:22 AM

I wouldn’t expect any investigation of any kind.

I’m still wondering where all those donations to the campaign website came from since they disabled the security feature that ruled out phony names from other countries.

Brian1972 on July 27, 2010 at 9:18 AM

Which is another reason why the DISCLOSE Act must be defeated. Call your senators to vote NO.

The DISCLOSE Act is a run around the SC ruling on corporate election contributions. The legislation tries to sound ethical, yet it has myriad cut-outs for Dem interests such as unions.

Congress “shall make no law” to limit free speech. Call your senators to squelch this unconstitutional law.

onlineanalyst on July 27, 2010 at 11:24 AM

Those of us on the right should be mostly relieved by Journolist. While the opposition is largely unscrupulous, it is also inept. Some commenters above sound like they found witches in Salem and need to boost their kindling supply. Ease off the paranoia. As my favorite mentor, Cesar Milan (the Dog Whisperer), advises: conduct yourself as a calm, assertive pack leader. I find this advice enormously useful when dealing with children and adults.

Mark30339 on July 27, 2010 at 11:30 AM

As Whoppie might say, “They aren’t really Hero, heroes.”

Lily on July 27, 2010 at 11:31 AM

These people were card carrying members, not innocent bystanders. Although their active participation was less than some, they were still complicit because of their knowledge of the conspiracy to control information germane to the election and of value to the electorate and their decision to withhold that information from the public. I have no good feeling for them because they did less harm than others. They still did harm.

mchristian on July 27, 2010 at 11:35 AM

Not one of these 400 POS saw fit to break this important story about journalistic dishonesty and collusion.

The only semi-hero is whoever leaked the emails.

The rest are scum. Every last one of them.

SurferDoc on July 27, 2010 at 11:39 AM

HotAirl…it’s a changin’.

More nuanced by the day.

joshlbetts on July 27, 2010 at 11:58 AM

The best thing about this coming out, is that the public will start doubting anything that the MSM says about obama or his opponents. The Weekly World News now has more credibility that the Washington Post

ConservativePartyNow on July 27, 2010 at 12:01 PM

The most egregious violations seemed to be coming from J school professors…wth is that about?

d1carter on July 27, 2010 at 12:19 PM

Ed, what makes you think this is the end of the series? It definitely hints they’ve got plenty more material.

VidOmnia on July 27, 2010 at 12:25 PM

The most egregious violations seemed to be coming from J school professors…wth is that about?

[d1carter on July 27, 2010 at 12:19 PM]

Tenure allows for them to speak how they really feel. The rest of the slubs have to weigh their careers against such freedom.

Dusty on July 27, 2010 at 12:26 PM

The list of plotters and ‘heroes’.

Schadenfreude on July 27, 2010 at 11:22 AM

Thanks. I’ve downloaded the pics of the rats to my desktop and will refer to it often I’m sure. It will certainly put things into perspective when I read something that seems like a hit piece on republicans/conservatives in the future.

KickandSwimMom on July 27, 2010 at 12:40 PM

One has to wonder why a journalist from Harper’s — and other publications — would need that reminder, especially about terrorism.

Because these people are nothing more than spectators in everything they do. They risk nothing more that their income stream when they harp from the outside.

Had one served their country? Any of them put their life on the line in the pursuit of their work not a story? Any of them been stuck in the suck?

I doubt it. Bunch of pampered birth-right Americans who sound like season ticket holders commenting on how the coach is running the team. F them. They don’t have a clue what it really takes, they think they do, and I’m sure someone has validated their POV but they’re journalists for a reason.

jcrue on July 27, 2010 at 1:26 PM

I’m not sorry that Obama makes Obama look bad. This is what you get with an affirmative action POTUS.

Ooooh, did I hurt someone’s widdle feewings? Tant pis, as the Fransche would say.

disa on July 27, 2010 at 1:30 PM

something is wacky on this site

disa on July 27, 2010 at 1:33 PM

Objective journalists would have been arguing for ethical behavior. Most of the heroics were really concerns about overreach which is self-centered and not heroic. The fact someone would defend General Patreus (sic) for example is really just having enough self-awareness to know the blowback and credibility hit that the left eventually got (see truthers for an example on our side of this). None of these people joined the list to increase their ability to be objective journalists and THAT is a big thing not to miss.

+100

Also are there any emails telling Ackerman to knock it off? I accept that his outbursts were mostly ignored, that he was at the extreme end of the spectrum there in constantly blustering. But are there any emails telling him to chill? Ezra managed with a very mild hand.

YehuditTX on July 27, 2010 at 2:04 PM

Nevertheless, I think the Daily Caller acted with integrity in highlighting these exchanges and giving these people their due.

Wrong. “Integrity” would involve making the entirety of the emails available online. There’s no valid reason not to do it. There is a reason not to: if you want to selectively edit the emails to make things look worse than they are (cf. Breitbart using the edited Sherrod video).

If the Caller was interested in integrity or open and honest journalism, they would allow their readers to see everything.

orange on July 27, 2010 at 2:08 PM

orange on July 27, 2010 at 2:08 PM

They did make screen prints of the actual emails available. But only those pertaining to the current story. They should make them all available after their series is complete.

Cindy Munford on July 27, 2010 at 2:29 PM

Hot Air alumnus Byron York makes the same point that the “heroism” was mostly in the service of whether or not an attack would be successful, not whether it was ethical.

Having run an email list, I can attest to the fact that policing with a heavy hand intensely annoys people, sometimes the best people then leave – they are not the problem children, but they hate being policed. Then you have nothing worth saving, and you have to decide whether to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It’s not like herding kittens, it’s like running with the bulls in Pamplona. (I’m sure Ed and Allah can relate!)

The best situation is if the regulars police the assholes because the esprit of the list is ethical in itself. But I can understand why Ezra’s remonstrances were weak. It was his responsibility, but if it was only his, he could not move the list toward ethical behavior all by himself, and trying to would causing a huge enough exodus to make the list useless at best, and probably kill it.

To those who want to flame me for saying all this: have you run an email list yourself? How did you handle this kind of situation? What was the result?

YehuditTX on July 27, 2010 at 2:56 PM

YehuditTX on July 27, 2010 at 2:56 PM

I’ve run multiple political discussion forums (including my current one). While I do favor a “light touch” moderation approach in most cases, I’ve also always kept a clearly-defined set of rules for what conduct is and isn’t acceptable. People who break those rules out of ignorance or spontaneous exuberance are warned to mind themselves; if they persist, they are banned. End of story.

Cylor on July 27, 2010 at 3:19 PM

Even if Carlson released something he presented as ‘all of the archives’, those suspicious of him would still believe that he held something back. The archives are likely so voluminous that they would be like the 92,000 Wikileaks files, useless until someone goes through and pulls threads together.

I have no problem with Carlson sorting them into topic areas. There is likely a good case to be made as well for leaving some emails out, like members bitching about their wives, complaining about the mother-in-law’s jellied coleslaw on Thanksgiving, etc.

slickwillie2001 on July 27, 2010 at 5:16 PM

“The press should be not only a collective propagandist and a collective agitator, but also a collective organizer of the masses”. Vladimir Lenin

LarryG on July 27, 2010 at 7:26 PM

…ooks more like a deranged debating society than a serious threat in itself…

Yeah. A Cabal of 400 or so mainstream journalists engage in blatant lies and propaganda in attempting to impact important American decisions … is a deranged debating society.

Ed. Please tell us you came up with this on one of your weenie days.

moochy on July 28, 2010 at 10:44 AM