Journolisters debate, endorse gov’t control of Fox News

posted at 8:48 am on July 21, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

Tucker Carlson has another Journolist exclusive today for the Daily Caller, and this one rates high on the irony meter.  Jonathan Strong starts off his report with the assessments of the Tea Party as fascists, if not flat-out Nazis, by Journolist members such as Bloomberg News’ Ryan Donmoyer, who clearly needs a refresher course on early 20th-century history with his insipid confusion of normal political rallies to the Beer Hall Putsch and the SA.  We’ll get back to that in a moment, because the real meat comes on page 2, where reporters from Time Magazine and the British newspaper Guardian endorse a “tough legal framework” designed to silence Fox News:

The very existence of Fox News, meanwhile, sends Journolisters into paroxysms of rage. When Howell Raines charged that the network had a conservative bias, the members of Journolist discussed whether the federal government should shut the channel down.

“I am genuinely scared” of Fox, wrote Guardian columnist Daniel Davies, because it “shows you that a genuinely shameless and unethical media organisation *cannot* be controlled by any form of peer pressure or self-regulation, and nor can it be successfully cold-shouldered or ostracised. In order to have even a semblance of control, you need a tough legal framework.” Davies, a Brit, frequently argued the United States needed stricter libel laws.

“I agree,” said Michael Scherer of Time Magazine. Roger “Ailes understands that his job is to build a tribal identity, not a news organization. You can’t hurt Fox by saying it gets it wrong, if Ailes just uses the criticism to deepen the tribal identity.”

Jonathan Zasloff, a law professor at UCLA, suggested that the federal government simply yank Fox off the air. “Do you really want the political parties/white house picking which media operations are news operations and which are a less respectable hybrid of news and political advocacy?

But Zasloff stuck to his position. “I think that they are doing that anyway; they leak to whom they want to for political purposes,” he wrote. “If this means that some White House reporters don’t get a press pass for the press secretary’s daily briefing and that this means that they actually have to, you know, do some reporting and analysis instead of repeating press releases, then I’ll take that risk.”

Scherer seemed alarmed. “So we would have press briefings in which only media organizations that are deemed by the briefer to be acceptable are invited to attend?”

How did the rest of the liberal journalists react to the idea of either government regulation of the press or outright squelching of a media organization?  Strong includes the reaction from The New Republic’s John Judis, who said that “pre-Fox,” he would have shared Scherer’s alarm at a White House manipulating media access.  In  the Obama administration, however, the representative of “the inflight magazine of Air Force One” suddenly sees the tactical advantages of such a strategy.

Zasloff eventually offered a different strategy:

I hate to open this can of worms, but is there any reason why the FCC couldn’t simply pull their [Fox News] broadcasting permit once it expires?

I’m actually unclear on whether Fox News has an FCC license, since it uses satellite transmission rather than actual broadcast through local affiliates.  Usually, it’s the affiliates themselves that have to get the licenses, not the network whose content they broadcast, and Fox News doesn’t use traditional TV stations for its content.  But that’s a more esoteric point.  The point is that Zasloff has no trouble letting government determine whether a news organization should be allowed to publish, apparently based on nothing more than its discomfort with the news itself.  Not only does this sound as though Zasloff needs a refresher course on Constitutional law and free speech, it also sounds like an endorsement for fascism, in which governments pick and choose which businesses are allowed to exist based on their level of cooperation with the government.

Let’s get back to Donmoyer, and his historical illiteracy.  Most of the quotes regarding the supposedly fascist quality of the Tea Party movement come from people outside of traditional journalistic roles (a blogger and an academic), but Donmoyer is ostensibly an objective news reporter covering Capitol Hill and the White House for Bloomberg.   On Journolist, however, he lets his paranoia show:

“You know, at the risk of violating Godwin’s law, is anyone starting to see parallels here between the teabaggers and their tactics and the rise of the Brownshirts?” asked Bloomberg’s Ryan Donmoyer. “Esp. Now that it’s getting violent? Reminds me of the Beer Hall fracases of the 1920s.”

The Brownshirts were the SA, armed thugs organized into a paramilitary structure by the Nazis (who later were deemed expendable, with most of their leadership murdered by the SS after the Nazis took power).  The term “Brownshirts” came from the uniform they wore in public.  They conducted massive levels of violence against their political opponents, especially the Communists, but hardly limited to them.  They took their direction from the very hierarchical Nazi Party leadership.  In short, they’re nothing like anything on the American scene on either side of the political divide, not even the anarchists who conducted real violence in St. Paul during the Republican convention.  Donmoyer’s education on this period seems to have been gleaned from comic books and paranoid fantasies in progressive blogs.

And when did Tea Parties start “getting violent”?  The only violence of note at any of the Tea Party rallies has been the violence perpetrated against the Tea Party activists, such as when union thugs beat up Kenneth Gladney in St. Louis.  Shouldn’t a reporter in an objective news capacity check his assumptions before painting Americans as Nazis simply for grassroots political activity?

The irony here, of course, is that these journalists fret over the fascism they see while gleefully looking for ways to get the government to silence people they don’t like.  They’re so desperate to find the mote in the eyes of their opponents that they completely miss the log in their own.  And that wouldn’t be anything more than human nature, if it wasn’t for the fact that media outlets like Time, Bloomberg, and Guardian hire these people to deliver the news.

Addendum: I’m going to add one more point that will probably not be terribly popular, but still should be kept in mind.  Painting the entire journalistic profession as evil and conspiratorial because the Journolisters either participate in proposing smears and government totalitarianism or silently give implicit consent is as unfair as painting the Tea Party movement as racist because a few neo-Nazis and LaRouchies show up as provocateurs.  The Journolist isn’t a random sample; it was self-selecting among political activists masquerading as journalists.

That doesn’t mean that this kind of activity was limited to Journolisters, either, but we should stick to the evidence at hand.  The Journolist appears to have plenty of delights to keep us busy for a while.

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I am teasing. Great link.

Cindy Munford on July 21, 2010 at 10:57 AM

Mr. Steele, a Bush-hating, anti-war atheist, will no doubt be spun as a “Rethuglikkkan” by the intellectually and morally self-lobotomized Shipley. His willful anti-humanistic debasement and wallowing in totalitarian filth only amuses until you realize that such attitudes build the concentration camps and gulags of the world.

ebrown2 on July 21, 2010 at 11:03 AM

I missed something at first, no one else has brought up. That Spitz who wants people dead?

NPR Producer. This airhead decides what’s news on NPR.

What was that Ed, again, how these types are only opinion writers, and we’re not to paint with a broad brush.

A producer isn’t an opinion writer.

MNHawk on July 21, 2010 at 11:05 AM

A producer isn’t an opinion writer.

MNHawk on July 21, 2010 at 11:05 AM

Good catch, these people are GATEKEEPERS and (in the case of the law professor) individuals responsible for educating the public.

Educating them for fascism, that is…

ebrown2 on July 21, 2010 at 11:15 AM

I’m sure if a British subject is living in terror of Fox news… That does explain the decline of the British Empire.

Jeff2161 on July 21, 2010 at 11:15 AM

The opinions expressed on this Journolist are not just partisan, they’re downright abhorrent – fantasizing about the death of their opponents, seriously discussing state censorship of views they don’t agree with etc…liberal-vs-conservative is one thing, but I would like to think that there is a line drawn around this arena outside of which no reasonable person could tread and still dare to call themselves “American.”

So with regards the issue of whether or not this list is a fair representation of journalists as a whole: if the rest of the journalist profession genuinely shares our (quite reasonable) view that these statements are abhorrent, then we should fully expect them to publicly denounce their colleagues in their coverage of this story. However, if this Journalist truly is representative, then we should fully expect the mainstream media to bury this story (like they bury everything else that is damaging to the progressive agenda).

As far as I am concerned, their silence is no less indicative of their general feelings than the silence of so-called “moderate” Muslims when it comes to the so-called “fringe” of Islamic extremism.

Sharke on July 21, 2010 at 11:15 AM

Sarah Spitz at KCRW (sarah.spitz@kcrw.org / 310-314-4627)

ted c on July 21, 2010 at 11:17 AM

JellyToast on July 21, 2010 at 9:51 AM

Your post hit home with me this morning, the point about being on the PC all the time when you’d rather be doing other things. We sometimes think most folks are like us, interested and digging and educating ourselves about all that is going on politically.
I was visiting at a family reunion in Texas over the weekend and then on to my sister’s house for the first visit in 7-8 years. I try not to bring politics up, but it is my main focus and it creeps in to my conversations. I find people looking at me as if I am speaking a foreign language. They have no idea what I am talking about and they haven’t heard anything like that, such as the Black Panther story.
These are hard working, good, salt-of-the-earth people(literally, farmers) who get up early, work hard all day, and just want to enjoy the evenings with their families. The news they catch is whatever might be on as they pass the TV on their way to do some fun things with their families. And who can blame them with nothing but negativity on 24 hours a day. It struck me that we may be in the minority – people who try to stay current on what is going on around us. But these people vote – based on what?
My sister, who I’ve been estranged from for years and have just been in the past year trying to get back together(all that I have left in my family)has always voted democrat. I suspected she voted for Obama, but didn’t know for sure, and really didn’t want to know. Her husband told mine that she did vote for Obama. When I mention politics, she says she doesn’t keep up with any news. People like her shouldn’t be allowed to vote, and I am angry with people who voted for Obama.
I really don’t have anyone I can talk politics with (it’s contentious with family except for hubby who it stresses too much), so coming here to Hot Air is like home to me. I don’t get into discussions like a lot of you on here do, but I enjoy reading all your comments and occasionally just post an opinion when I feel strongly about something. Thanks for the opportunity to do that. I guess my main point is I wonder how many people are this involved. Because if they are not, they don’t really know what is going on from the MSM and their obvious biases.
I apologize for the length of this and know it is of no importance, but had to vent and this is my only outlet. Please forgive!

silvernana on July 21, 2010 at 11:18 AM

Is it any surprise that no one amongst the fellow JournoListers were shocked, shocked at all to learn that Ms. Sarah Spitz, an NPR Producer, fantasized about watching Rush Limbaugh die of a heart attack without helping him? One wonders if any of these people would be shocked to learn that what “health procedures” that a baby undergoes during an abortion….? Just a guess, but probably not.

ted c on July 21, 2010 at 11:19 AM

99% of Racism is media created. Recently I’ve talked to quite a few black and white friends and asked them the last time they actually witnessed racism of any kind. Neither white nor black could remember the last time. The media portrays people in a way to sell stories, which is what most of the racist crap is, stories.

I knew Obamalinsky would set back race relations a hundred years. Big part of Wilson’s Progressivism, they really were racist towards blacks….

adamsmith on July 21, 2010 at 11:20 AM

I’m sure Jon Stewart will have a devastating story on this soon…
/s

Jeff2161 on July 21, 2010 at 11:24 AM

Here’s my theory, -Breitbart has the dump and he has paid out his $100K. He is going to trickle it out story by story, as he is so good at doing. To have some plausible deniability, he will give some of the stories to friends in the conservative media/blogosphere. This also protects him from an attack or lawsuit alleging that the Journolisters have a right to keep these emails private. You have to know that the idiot Holder would just love to prosecute him over this.

Just a theory, no evidence.

slickwillie2001 on July 21, 2010 at 11:28 AM

To contact the reporter on this story: Ryan J. Donmoyer in Washington at rdonmoyer@bloomberg.net.

ted c on July 21, 2010 at 11:28 AM

Jonah Goldberg can certainly feel vindicated.

http://www.la-articles.org.uk/fascism.htm

ebrown2 on July 21, 2010 at 10:52 AM

Chilling and informative…thank you.

Baxter Greene on July 21, 2010 at 11:29 AM

Jonathan M. Zasloff
Professor of Law
B.A. Yale, 1987
J.D. Yale, 1993
M.Phil. International Relations, Cambridge, 1988
M.A. History, Harvard, 1990
Ph.D. Harvard, 2000
UCLA Law faculty since 1998
zasloff@law.ucla.edu

ted c on July 21, 2010 at 11:30 AM

“A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant and the crazy crazier.”
–H. L. Mencken

Rae on July 21, 2010 at 11:31 AM

Baxter Greene on July 21, 2010 at 10:43 AM

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2010/07/11/bp-gulf-oil-spill-photos-show-bp-real-reason-constitution-suspended/

ted c on July 21, 2010 at 10:54 AM

Great link…it is taking the average American to do the job the supposed “professional journalist” from the major media outlets won’t do.

If Bush was President….the press would be howling about “the dictator shutting down the free press”.

What pictures they could get would be plastered all over the front pages of the NY Times and given a 24/7 run on the news networks.

The Gulf is being devastated and the POTUS is doing everything he can (with the help of his friends in the press) to keep it from the publics view.

Baxter Greene on July 21, 2010 at 11:36 AM

Painting the entire journalistic profession as evil and conspiratorial because the Journolisters either participate in proposing smears and government totalitarianism or silently give implicit consent is as unfair as painting the Tea Party movement as racist because a few neo-Nazis and LaRouchies show up as provocateurs.

Wow on the ridiculous equivocation. This is like saying painting the Global Warming movement as fraud based on some conspiratorial emails and purposely falsified data is unfair.

It’s not unfair. It is truth, and it is the tip of the not so proverbial iceberg.

LibTired on July 21, 2010 at 11:37 AM

I knew Obamalinsky would set back race relations a hundred years. Big part of Wilson’s Progressivism, they really were racist towards blacks….

adamsmith on July 21, 2010 at 11:20 AM

Obama doesn’t care. He parasitized “black identity,” but has no empathy for anyone but himself. Everyone should watch “Cotton Comes to Harlem” (be warned, it’s pretty salty) and see the late, great Calvin Lockhart’s portrayal of Obama, alias the Rev. Deke O’Malley.

ebrown2 on July 21, 2010 at 11:37 AM

Jonah Goldberg can certainly feel vindicated.

http://www.la-articles.org.uk/fascism.htm

ebrown2 on July 21, 2010 at 10:52 AM

Chilling and informative…thank you.

Baxter Greene on July 21, 2010 at 11:29 AM

Both you and Cindy are welcome! The irony of it all is that it was an Israeli socialist, Zeev Sternhell, that brought this history to light.

ebrown2 on July 21, 2010 at 11:40 AM

Painting the entire journalistic profession as evil and conspiratorial because the Journolisters either participate in proposing smears and government totalitarianism or silently give implicit consent is as unfair as painting the Tea Party movement as racist because a few neo-Nazis and LaRouchies show up as provocateurs. The Journolist isn’t a random sample; it was self-selecting among political activists masquerading as journalists.

Then those not involved should denounce and censor those who were. That is what they are always demanding of us.

Queen0fCups on July 21, 2010 at 11:41 AM

If Bush was President….the press would be howling about “the dictator shutting down the free press”.

Baxter Greene on July 21, 2010 at 11:36 AM

…and they would have been correct. We have seen, now, that they have no moral or intellectual standing to criticize anyone else for their own dictatorial-loving evils.

ebrown2 on July 21, 2010 at 11:42 AM

What I just posted in the headlines thread:

JournoList was hosted on Google Groups. Everyone that had their accounts set up to receive the posts individually (and that is the default) would have complete archives on their end, unless they specifically deleted the messages. And if they used something like Gmail, which is designed to allow you to pretty much save every email forever without having to think about it … well, that means there’s probably quite a few complete or near-complete copies of the archives floating around out there.

What’s interesting is that the DC appears to have been given printouts of the posts, instead of online access. And the printouts are of individual Google Groups pages, which means whoever saved/printed them did so before Ezra Klein deleted the original Google site.

It also makes me worry that the DC may not have the complete archives, because the sheer amount of labor required to save/print PDFs of tens of thousands of individual posts (if not hundreds of thousands) seems like more work than anyone would have been willing to engage in, no matter how much they wanted this stuff out.

The Lone Platypus on July 21, 2010 at 11:45 AM

slickwillie2001 on July 21, 2010 at 11:28 AM

I think so too.

ORconservative on July 21, 2010 at 11:47 AM

ted c on July 21, 2010 at 11:30 AM

Yale & Harvard?

I think from now on it is best to trust people who went to Eureka College, or U. of Idaho.

No more Yale & Harvard.

rbj on July 21, 2010 at 11:48 AM

Everyone should watch “Cotton Comes to Harlem” (be warned, it’s pretty salty) and see the late, great Calvin Lockhart’s portrayal of Obama, alias the Rev. Deke O’Malley.

ebrown2 on July 21, 2010 at 11:37 AM

Thank you! I saw this movie on TV during the ’08 campaigns and identified The Rev. with Obama immediately. At the time, I thought I was racist, but I have disabused myself of that notion now. :)

Greyledge Gal on July 21, 2010 at 11:54 AM

The Journolist isn’t a random sample; it was self-selecting among political activists masquerading as journalists

Total BS! I have a reporter friend who works for the largest paper in San Antonio who openly talks just like the Journolisters. Another friend at CNN is the same way. And as was pointed out in the earlier Daily Caller report many Journolisters are journalism professors at major universities. So to characterize this as a bunch of self selecting bad apples defies common sense. As David Horowitz pointed out long ago this rot goes deep and wide.

miles on July 21, 2010 at 11:56 AM

Rovin on July 21, 2010 at 9:45 AM
It’s in cutting these ‘misguided’ children like Shipley some slack that we empower them to continue their efforts to radically change our nation into a socialistic cesspool. It’s like taking a knife into a gun fight since the left do not give away to the right on any question.

docdave on July 21, 2010 at 10:09 AM

Partially agreeing with you doc, I would submit that is it not Mr. Shipley that would worry me in his quest. There are much bigger fish to fry and far more dangerous liberals that need attention and exposure than our local resident lefty. (I do “cut some slack” with Tom, because he came over to HA when Ed shut down Cap’s Quarters. I guess you could describe Tom as a misguided dependent, but rarely would I consider him a fruitcake like some of the others who have come and departed here by their own attrition)

Rovin on July 21, 2010 at 11:56 AM

It’s very disheartening for the future of our republic if people are even talking about such things,
very scary and very sad.

And for the cajillionth time, the definition of term: Nazi

German Nationalsozialistische [Deutsch Arbeiter-Partei] (National Socialist [German Workers' Party])
The American Heritage® Abbreviations Dictionary, Third Edition

Which National party fits that definition the best?

Chip on July 21, 2010 at 12:04 PM

Absolutely right!
Honestly, I’ll tell you the truth, I hate blogging, I hate being on the PC, I hate watching the news. There are so many other things I’d rather be doing.
There are things I want to do. I’ve always wanted to build a boat, build a cool treehouse out in the yard, travel across the country, spend more time at the beach and about a hundred other things. But I’m too busy being involved locally and wasting all this time watching and reading the news. Going to meetings and all this other crap. But what choice do we have? We are here because too many of us in the past were too busy having fun and leaving the work of government up to politicians. We thought we could trust these fools and now we realize they are nothing but liars and thieves!
There’s nowhere to run anyway, I have children and someday I want grandchildren. I don’t want to see our nation turn into another Venezuela.

JellyToast on July 21, 2010 at 9:51 AM

and

silvernana on July 21, 2010 at 11:18 AM

Dittos. This is the most depressing part-time job I have ever had. I am not nearly as smart, snarky, etc. as many of the posters here, but I sure appreciate their insight. I don’t know anybody who is as tuned in as I am, and that is saying a lot- I am definitely not smarter or better than others, but it is like a bad car wreck that you can’t look away from. I marched on Washington with the Tea Party, and all I can hope for is that this movement grows, and people get more involved before it is too late.

Kristamatic on July 21, 2010 at 12:22 PM

Addendum

There are no valid parallels between this and a few “neo-Nazis and LaRouchies [who] show up as provocateurs” at tea party rallies.

These are working main stream journalists working for main stream publications expressing their true opinions and plotting strategy in a safe environment.

Unless you have evidence these people are nutjobs not taken seriously by their colleagues, employers and society in general as “neo-Nazis and LaRouchies” are, you point is completely off base and does nothing but help cover up a major problem by minimizing its importance through specious analogies.

TheBigOldDog on July 21, 2010 at 12:29 PM

silvernana on July 21, 2010 at 11:18 AM

No forgiveness necessary. Your comment was wonderful.
Same here, though. Could give you so many examples. My father in law is the nicest hardest working man. He’s getting up there in age, and is retired now. But he gets all of his news from ABC, CBS and NBC. He cried at the thought of Obamacare passing because he thinks his grandchildren will have all of their healthcare needs taken care of. You try to enter into a discussion with a little truth and the brick wall comes up.

Other people we know are just so ignorant. Fortunately we belong to a good church that encourages us to be responsible politically, so many in our church are pretty aware of things. But at work and so forth, neighbors and all, people can be so clueless. You try to enter into a conversation to inform or enlighten and people like freeze up. You get this look like “I never heard that.. how can that be true.. are you a nut?”
Waking people into reality from a sleepy dream can be a traumatic ordeal. I know good people, nice and hard working too, that can’t seem to think beyond friday night or the weekend fishing trip.

JellyToast on July 21, 2010 at 12:36 PM

Rush responds to JournoList poster Sarah Spitz’s dream about him dying from a heart attack. from Byron York.

ted c on July 21, 2010 at 10:33 AM

Doesn’t get better than that.

Gang-of-One on July 21, 2010 at 12:41 PM

Evidently the Left is for freedom of speech only when it’s theirs! How predictable!

GFW on July 21, 2010 at 12:45 PM

JellyToast on July 21, 2010 at 9:51 AM

and

silvernana on July 21, 2010 at 11:18 AM

and

Kristamatic on July 21, 2010 at 12:22 PM

I hear ya’ll.

This does feel like a full time job, because anything I read (away from Hotair and Drudge and Fox) I make a point to make sure it is true. :P

“Trust but Verify” is the rule I live by second only to the Golden One.

tru2tx on July 21, 2010 at 12:46 PM

“A newspaper is a device for making the ignorant more ignorant and the crazy crazier.”
–H. L. Mencken

Rae on July 21, 2010 at 11:31 AM

and to slightly rework this, many newspapers are written by ignorant, crazy journalists… well, at least, many of the dishonest, liberal ones.

chai on July 21, 2010 at 12:46 PM

Wow.

Goebbels would approve.

Del Dolemonte on July 21, 2010 at 12:53 PM

Painting the entire journalistic profession as evil and conspiratorial because the Journolisters either participate in proposing smears and government totalitarianism or silently give implicit consent is as unfair as painting the Tea Party movement as racist because a few neo-Nazis and LaRouchies show up as provocateurs.

Whatever Ed.

Your admonition would have a bit more teeth if, a la the Tea Parties, these were some random nobodies showing up and starting crap.

These people weren’t filing papers in the mail room at Time Magazine.

Lehosh on July 21, 2010 at 12:53 PM

Brietbart is a Genius. He doesn’t call any one ugly. He holds a mirror and let you see your own ugly face.

The NAACP made some unsuported racist accusations. He let us see what racist garbage looks like at the NAACP race incitement rallies looks like. Thanks Breitbart. If we see any racist smears at the Tea Party, we have NAACP tapes to use for benchmarks.

seven on July 21, 2010 at 12:54 PM

I apologize for the length of this and know it is of no importance, but had to vent and this is my only outlet. Please forgive!

silvernana on July 21, 2010 at 11:18 AM

Absolutely nothing to apologize for.

Gang-of-One on July 21, 2010 at 12:54 PM

If you really want to judge these guys as journalists, look at their work then get back to us.

Tom_Shipley on July 21, 2010 at 9:07 AM

Ever hear of Newsbusters, Tom?

No, I didn’t think so.

Del Dolemonte on July 21, 2010 at 12:58 PM

All these journalists work for organizations that attempt to provide unbiased news coverage. They are held to certain standards by their editors, and by themselves.

Tom_Shipley on July 21, 2010 at 9:29 AM

You seriously can’t believe this. If you do, you’re farther gone than I thought.

Del Dolemonte on July 21, 2010 at 1:04 PM

If you really want to judge these guys as journalists, look at their work then get back to us.

Tom_Shipley on July 21, 2010 at 9:07 AM

LoL, my but this is a change of pace!

I’m sure Mark Foley should be judged entirely on his legislative record.

Lehosh on July 21, 2010 at 1:04 PM

This is incredibly alarming.

Thank you for the added comment Ed. Pure journalism is necessary to the pulse of a free republic. These people who are sneaking around and pushing agendas are not journalists.

Amy Ritter on July 21, 2010 at 1:05 PM

“I am genuinely scared” of Fox, wrote Guardian columnist Daniel Davies, because it “shows you that a genuinely shameless and unethical media organisation *cannot* be controlled by any form of peer pressure or self-regulation, and nor can it be successfully cold-shouldered or ostracised. In order to have even a semblance of control, you need a tough legal framework.” Davies, a Brit, …

.
Notice that Daniel Davies is clearly going way beyond stricter libel laws here … way beyond libel laws into government control and censorship of opposition news media … that is AMERICAN opposition news media.
.
Is anyone concerned about that the fact that the Guardian is a British organization and Daniel Davies isn’t an American either yet here we have evidence of foreign involvement in a conspiracy to terminate First Amendment rights to free speech and free press of Americans!

Mike OMalley on July 21, 2010 at 1:05 PM

I hate to open this can of worms, but is there any reason why the FCC couldn’t simply pull their [Fox News] broadcasting permit once it expires?

Yeah. It’s called the First Amendment of the Constitution.

Exactly what does UCLA Law School Professor Jonathan Zasloff teach his students about the law if he can’t think of any reason why the government can’t shut down a news network because it doesn’t like the news stories they cover or how they cover them?

Socratease on July 21, 2010 at 1:07 PM

Tom_Shipley on July 21, 2010 at 9:29 AM

Do you play hockey because that was a hell of a deflection shot.

Bishop on July 21, 2010 at 9:36 AM

Tom is the puck.

Del Dolemonte on July 21, 2010 at 1:10 PM

Do the members of Journolist wear Brown Shirts? Because their goals are the same, to shout down their opponents until they cannot be heard.

pedestrian on July 21, 2010 at 1:10 PM

Painting the entire journalistic profession as evil and conspiratorial because the Journolisters either participate in proposing smears and government totalitarianism or silently give implicit consent is as unfair

Ed, have their fellow “journalists” in the MSM reported on this pivotal story of our times? If not, how can you sync your assertion above with reality?

I’m not saying that everybody in the MSM is involved, but if the MSM doesn’t cover this story it can only be because they are covering up the story, (at least the people who control the editorial decisions, and others could whistle blower if they wanted to save their credibility). That being the case, it proves that, as a body, whether particular individuals were involved in Journolist directly or not, they still fall into the category of “propagandists” in their attempt to cover up this story and protect their fellow “journolists”.

So this story not only utterly destroys the “journalistic” credibility of those involved, forever, but by protecting those involved the rest become complicit. They’re like the getaway driver.

FloatingRock on July 21, 2010 at 1:20 PM

…Maybe not “complicit”, but “accessories” to the crime (of journalistic standards) after the fact.

FloatingRock on July 21, 2010 at 1:21 PM

Damn, you’re right on target once again!

Keemo on July 21, 2010 at 9:59 AM

Just following the Keemo,Del delmonte,No Donkey example.

Baxter Greene on July 21, 2010 at 10:25 AM

Sadly, Shipley won’t be swayed by the facts we pose. I found that out way back in the Captain’s Quarters days.

Not unique to him, of course, all Leftists of his ilk literally have their brains wired differently. They don’t know the meaning of the words “logic” or “truth”, only “emotions”.

You can provide these fools with documented facts-such as Bill Clinton’s Justice Department 1998 Federal Indictment of bin Laden, which specifically links him to Saddam Hussein-and they will simply ignore it, as it happened before Bush took office.

Tell them how Bill Clinton’s Justice Department successfully prosecuted a female Federal employee for lying about sex under oath, and they will still say Clinton himself was above the law for doing the exact same thing.

And the list goes on and on…

Del Dolemonte on July 21, 2010 at 1:24 PM

is as unfair as painting the Tea Party movement as racist because a few neo-Nazis and LaRouchies show up as provocateurs.

No, sorry Ed, the Teapartiers don’t defend those people like many in the MSM will cover for JournoGate.

FloatingRock on July 21, 2010 at 1:26 PM

I am perpetually astonished by the fact that there are people in this country that actually believe Communism actually works beneficially for the the citizens. There is not one single example of Communist success yet they persist in their lunacy spurred on by the “intellectual elite” who wallow in confusing people with nonsensical, convoluted and overly complex defenses of their mental illness. As for that daffy Brit, it seems they have plenty of their own problems to solve without interferring in ours.Lefties love the use of NAZI to characterize their opposition when it is they who are employing SA and SS tactics when mounting their attacks. How could such hypocracy be explained other than mental defect?
Final note:
“The press should be not only a collective propagandist and a collective agitator, but also a collective organizer of the masses”. Vladimir Lenin

LarryG on July 21, 2010 at 1:27 PM

I hate to open this can of worms, but is there any reason why the FCC couldn’t simply pull their [Fox News] broadcasting permit once it expires?

Yeah. It’s called the First Amendment of the Constitution.
Exactly what does UCLA Law School Professor Jonathan Zasloff teach his students about the law if he can’t think of any reason why the government can’t shut down a news network because it doesn’t like the news stories they cover or how they cover them?
Socratease on July 21, 2010 at 1:07 PM

I Can’t really believe we are actually talking about this, but as far as the NeoProgressive-Socialist Dems are concerned, the Commerce clause would probably overrule that Somehow.

If not that, then the “Good & Plenty” clause may suffice.

Chip on July 21, 2010 at 1:29 PM

…But I’m not tarring the entire journalist profession, just quite a lot of the ones that pretend to be “journalists” these days. Fox News is OK and Tapper isn’t bad (I guess), to name a few.

FloatingRock on July 21, 2010 at 1:29 PM

Boycott the national media.

The vast majority of information published or televised has no effect on your life. If an event actually affects your life, you’ll hear about it in the local media. Information that can be useful (weather, economic reports, criminal and government activities) can be easily obtained through the sources already used by the media and you can avoid their filter.

You don’t need them so stop giving them your hard-earned money and unrecoverable time.

AaronGuzman on July 21, 2010 at 1:33 PM

Tom is the puck.

Del Dolemonte on July 21, 2010 at 1:10 PM

And a real dumb puck, at that….

dmh0667 on July 21, 2010 at 1:34 PM

New JournoList stuff out now. See the Daily Caller.

notropis on July 21, 2010 at 1:36 PM

Tucker has broken out and made it, his way. God bless America.

borntoraisehogs on July 21, 2010 at 1:37 PM

LarryG on July 21, 2010 at 1:27 PM

Excellent points – throughout history, the only ones that seem to benefit from the vestiges of Statism are the Ruling and ‘intellectual’ elite, which does point out as to why they are always are pushing that agenda.

And it is the Leftists that love to project their ideology and tactics on the right, especially the tactics of National Socialism

And since we’re quoting dear old Vlad, here’s a couple more:

A lie told often enough becomes the truth.
Vladimir Lenin

A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie.
Vladimir Lenin

Chip on July 21, 2010 at 1:38 PM

Yale & Harvard?

I think from now on it is best to trust people who went to Eureka College, or U. of Idaho.

No more Yale & Harvard.

rbj on July 21, 2010 at 11:48 AM

That should have happened after Whittaker Chambers published Witness.

Caper29 on July 21, 2010 at 1:44 PM

Painting the entire journalistic profession as evil and conspiratorial because the Journolisters either participate in proposing smears and government totalitarianism or silently give implicit consent is as unfair as painting the Tea Party movement as racist

400 “journalists” from almost every MSM outlet in the country is not enough for you? God help us.

faraway on July 21, 2010 at 1:55 PM

Ed

I don’t understand why you keep going out of your way to point out that this is some ‘fringe’ movement of leftist opinion journalist. I get that you want to make sure you don’t offend any of your friends in the MSM, but I am not buying it. Unless you have seen the ‘Journolist’ archive then how do you know who is on the list and what they have written?

Anyway, I think your defense of the MSM is lacking in any kind of reason. Who are these fair and balanced journalist? If you have the names of these non-biased journalist then please name a few for me. Find me 10 MSM personalities, TV or in print, that claim to be nuetral that go after Democrats as hard as they do Republicans. I would love to see that list.

chief on July 21, 2010 at 1:59 PM

And they wonder why we want nothing to do with their crap anymore…

Blake on July 21, 2010 at 2:07 PM

With Bush every two seconds the left was wailing about the US becoming fascist but not a peep over the numerous hijinks under Obama. Amazing. No effin credibility at all!

Blake on July 21, 2010 at 2:08 PM

The closest thing today to the brownshirts are the SEIU thugs who beat up Kenneth Gladney in St. Louis.

Wasn’t Obowma wanting a “civilian national security force”
as well? Obowma uses Alinsky tactics all the time while accusing conservatives as the fascists. The lamestream media reports these lies as fact while conservatives are left defending the false charges, time and time again.

dthorny on July 21, 2010 at 2:24 PM

chief on July 21, 2010 at 1:59 PM

Most of them would, ironically, be on Fox News.

dthorny on July 21, 2010 at 2:26 PM

Liberal(as stated above)paroxysms of rage, are a beautiful thing to behold. It will guarantee mistakes in judgment and action, and further syphon off any power they have already attained/stolen.

midlander on July 21, 2010 at 2:29 PM

The irony here is that these “journalists” (actually, propagandists) are the fascists. Fascism is a form of socialism where, among other things, there is very effective social control but without complete government ownership of the means of production.

Phil Byler on July 21, 2010 at 2:29 PM

Fox News channel holds many FCC licenses under the name Fox News Network LLC. You can find them if you know where to search for Satellite Uplink/Downlink Stations. FCC action is not an idle threat.

File Number P/E Applicant Name Callsign Orbit Location Requested Orbit Location Assigned Frequency Band (Mhz) Status Last Action Date Expire AFFPN Date
SES-AMD-20041018-01563 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E040385 11700- 12200 Action Complete Grant of Authority 10/27/2004
SES-AMD-20041018-01563 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E040385 14000- 14500 Action Complete Grant of Authority 10/27/2004
SES-AMD-20041208-01803 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E040386 11700- 12200 Action Complete Grant of Authority 12/15/2004
SES-AMD-20041208-01803 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E040386 14000- 14500 Action Complete Grant of Authority 12/15/2004
SES-LIC-20040422-00576 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E040190 11700- 12200 Action Taken Public Notice Grant of Authority 06/03/2019 04/28/2004
SES-LIC-20040422-00576 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E040190 14000- 14500 Action Taken Public Notice Grant of Authority 06/03/2019 04/28/2004
SES-LIC-20040928-01465 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E040384 11700- 12200 Action Taken Public Notice Grant of Authority 12/13/2019 10/06/2004
SES-LIC-20040928-01465 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E040384 14000- 14500 Action Taken Public Notice Grant of Authority 12/13/2019 10/06/2004
SES-LIC-20040928-01466 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E040385 11700- 12200 Action Taken Public Notice Grant of Authority 12/14/2019 10/27/2004
SES-LIC-20040928-01466 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E040385 14000- 14500 Action Taken Public Notice Grant of Authority 12/14/2019 10/27/2004
SES-LIC-20040928-01467 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E040386 11700- 12200 Action Taken Public Notice Grant of Authority 01/18/2020 12/15/2004
SES-LIC-20040928-01467 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E040386 14000- 14500 Action Taken Public Notice Grant of Authority 01/18/2020 12/15/2004
SES-LIC-20050308-00289 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E050064 3700- 4200 Action Taken Public Notice Grant of Authority 04/20/2020 03/16/2005
SES-LIC-20050308-00289 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E050064 5925- 6425 Action Taken Public Notice Grant of Authority 04/20/2020 03/16/2005
SES-LIC-20061013-01846 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E060379 11700- 12200 Action Taken Public Notice Grant of Authority 11/20/2021 10/18/2006
SES-LIC-20061013-01846 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E060379 14000- 14500 Action Taken Public Notice Grant of Authority 11/20/2021 10/18/2006
SES-LIC-20061013-01847 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E060380 11700- 12200 Action Taken Public Notice Grant of Authority 11/20/2021 10/18/2006
SES-LIC-20061013-01847 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E060380 14000- 14500 Action Taken Public Notice Grant of Authority 11/20/2021 10/18/2006
SES-LIC-20070430-00524 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E070076 11700- 12200 Action Taken Public Notice Grant of Authority 06/05/2022 05/02/2007
SES-LIC-20070430-00524 E FOX NEWS NETWORK LLC E070076 14000- 14500 Action Taken Public Notice Grant of Authority 06/05/2022 05/02/2007

meci on July 21, 2010 at 2:39 PM

To do the fcc.gov search:

http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/ib/forms/reports/swr030b.hts

click on advanced search and enter Fox News Network LLC under applicants / licensee name.

meci on July 21, 2010 at 2:46 PM

No, we can’t generalize overmuch when it comes to journalists who embrace outright political radicalism and Orwellian methodology in media. However, can we not agree that there is a huge problem, overall, in how the established news organs handle — or not — news in an objective and fair manner?

illustro on July 21, 2010 at 2:54 PM

Painting the entire journalistic profession as evil and conspiratorial because the Journolisters either participate in proposing smears and government totalitarianism or silently give implicit consent is as unfair

No, that’s just the latest evidence. I’ve been actively following media bias for over 20 years, and the leftist bias in the MSM has been going on a HELL of a lot longer than that. The “true radicals” may be 10%, but the “casual lefty go-alongs” are about 80%.

They self-identify as liberal 90% of the time, multiple “news” organizations like Time Magazine have taken editorial positions that they won’t report facts that contradict their ideology, and individual examples of deliberate slanting of coverage are so numerous as to be ubiquitous – you simply could not catalog them if you tried.

And if you’ve ever been to j-school, you probably know why.

From newsbusters to Bernard Goldberg and John Stossel and everyone else who has “whistleblown” on the newsroom antics, the evidence is insanely overwhelming that this isn’t a tiny minority of fanatics, it’s THE NORM in the industry.

It’s not even close. Heck, I’ve even worked with some local papers – that’s a small random sampling – and while some people tried hard to be fair-minded, it didn’t usually take more than a few minutes for the liberal assumptions to rear their heads, whether it was language choices (who “said” vs. who “claimed” or “implied”), who to talk to (some reporters were “uncomfortable” talking to some people), or which stories to cover.

One of the biggest biases that shows up is the “victim/oppressor” bias that has put a number of innocent business owners out of business because of bad publicity. People don’t think of it as “liberal media bias,” but what do you call it?

It’s every day, in every city. It’s NOT a tiny minority.

Merovign on July 21, 2010 at 2:57 PM

Kirsten Powers, who I respect on many issues, last night told BOR that stories about Van Jones or Berwick weren’t suitable for network news coverage. But Lindsey Lohan is worth network coverage?

Individual members of the media edit out lots of stories based on their personal beliefs.

hawksruleva on July 21, 2010 at 3:11 PM

I love the statement by Spitz today:

I made poorly considered remarks about Rush Limbaugh to what I believed was a private email discussion group from my personal email account. As a publicist, I realize more than anyone that is no excuse for irresponsible behavior. I apologize to anyone I may have offended and I regret these comments greatly; they do not reflect the values by which I conduct my life.

Translation: I’m sorry I got caught.

Honey apologize to Rush personally if you’re sincere.

rollthedice on July 21, 2010 at 3:22 PM

Sarah Palin has the following statement on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/sarahpalin

Forget freedom of speech and freedom of the press if these yahoos ever
get their way in America. It seems “prominent” journalistic champions of
free speech suggested having the federal government shut down a media
outlet that takes a broader look at issues than these “media elites”
would like you to see.

lonestar1 on July 21, 2010 at 3:28 PM

These people are freaking crazy. What do they think the public reaction would be the Obama administration shutting down a cable news station? More and more people do not trust them anyway.

Terrye on July 21, 2010 at 3:40 PM

Addendum: I’m going to add one more point that will probably not be terribly popular, but still should be kept in mind. Painting the entire journalistic profession as evil and conspiratorial because the Journolisters either participate in proposing smears and government totalitarianism or silently give implicit consent is as unfair as painting the Tea Party movement as racist because a few neo-Nazis and LaRouchies show up as provocateurs.

Classic Mr. Ed. Fair, balanced, impartial, middle-of-the-road, judicious. Just like reporters.

But hey, I agree. Because this Journolist thing is the only evidence of bad faith on the part of reporters, like, ever.

misterpeasea on July 21, 2010 at 4:12 PM

Summing up liberals in 5 words, one of them would be:

Projection

scotash on July 21, 2010 at 4:31 PM

Since there is not a thread attached to the Matt Welch Reason column that this is no big deal I will post my thoughts here. If anyone reads that column go down and read the comments by the Reason people and see how thin-skinned they are and that ask yourself if these people would think could blow off an attack like this on THIER ideology. If you think they could read the comments again. They can talk big but if they were relevant enough to be in the crosshairs of the liberal attack machine they would crying like the babies they are in the comments section.

Conan on July 21, 2010 at 4:34 PM

I’m a senior at UCLA and had Zasloff as a professor for two quarters at the beginning of my studies.

The statements he made on Journolist are so typical of him: smart-alecky and arrogant. His distrust of and derisive attitude towards average Americans was amplified in his criticisms of California’s Prop. 13. So it is no surprise that he is dismissive towards Fox, and, by extension, Americans who choose to watch it.

MB007 on July 21, 2010 at 4:38 PM

Sarah Palin has the following statement on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/sarahpalin

Forget freedom of speech and freedom of the press if these yahoos ever
get their way in America. It seems “prominent” journalistic champions of
free speech suggested having the federal government shut down a media
outlet that takes a broader look at issues than these “media elites”
would like you to see.
lonestar1 on July 21, 2010 at 3:28 PM

Hey, that’s nothing! Romney and Huckabee have THIS to say about all of this:…

Well, I guess they’ll get around to a statement once someone does enough analysis to tell them what they think about it.

DrAllecon on July 21, 2010 at 4:50 PM

From Mark Levin: Here is a partial list of ‘Journolist’ participants.

I keep hearing that this ‘Journolist’ listserv only incuded leftist political partisan hacks. I don’t recognize all of these names. Would all of these journalist be considered partisan hacks?

Here is partial list from Levin

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/notes.php?id=16307558831

chief on July 21, 2010 at 4:52 PM

The propagandists want to shut down the real journalists.

The only surprise, is that the evidence came to light.

Slowburn on July 21, 2010 at 4:59 PM

JoUrnolisters–getting all wee-wee’d up about Fox.

chickasaw42 on July 21, 2010 at 5:02 PM

If you really want to judge these guys as journalists, look at their work then get back to us.

Tom_Shipley on July 21, 2010 at 9:07 AM

The arrogance in this statement is astonishing. What makes you think that we haven’t been looking at their work? Looking at their work is what makes this JournoFascistlist so believable. The fact that you apparently cannot be bothered to look at their work, or do so honestly, doesn’t mean the rest of us are lazy, utopian Polyannas when it comes to this stuff. My land.

DrMagnolias on July 21, 2010 at 5:04 PM

Sorry bad link. Lets try again.

Partial list of ‘Journolist’ participants.

http://www.facebook.com/marklevinshow#!/notes.php?id=16307558831

chief on July 21, 2010 at 5:05 PM

…and it will eventually happen since Republicans just sort of lay back and let the left smear them and dictate the terms of the debate.

Seems the only Republican with the guts to stand up to the smears and fight back is Sarah Palin.

Mr Purple on July 21, 2010 at 5:14 PM

Any of us who have heard the montages Rush often puts on can’t be surprised. The one about “gravitas” a while back must have had a dozen clips using that uncommon word about the same identical event. But he has one every few days.

jodetoad on July 21, 2010 at 5:38 PM

Groucho Marx got it right when he said “I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.”

Highplains on July 21, 2010 at 5:57 PM

I wonder how many of these Journolisters making comparisons to Hitler were part of the media pants wetting over the recent misguided North Iowa Tea Party billboard in Mason City, IA, comparing Obama to Hitler and Lenin? These clowns long ago lost the right to call anyone an extremist.

nkviking75 on July 21, 2010 at 6:18 PM

Their actions are borderline treason.

Watching_Cloward-Piven on July 21, 2010 at 6:48 PM

Kirsten Powers, who I respect on many issues, last night told BOR that stories about Van Jones or Berwick weren’t suitable for network news coverage. But Lindsey Lohan is worth network coverage?

Individual members of the media edit out lots of stories based on their personal beliefs.

hawksruleva on July 21, 2010 at 3:11 PM

Kirsten needs a good spanking… Several…

Khun Joe on July 21, 2010 at 8:00 PM

I’m not sure I even want to read anymore of their exchanges. They’re not biased against Conservative. Nope. They are full-fledged fanatics; and hateful. I wonder how they tone it down to the level they do.

From their election victory blog. They were rejoicing about who they wouldn’t have to listen to when SA chimes in…

SPENCER ACKERMAN: Let’s just throw Ledeen against a wall. Or, pace Dr. Alterman, throw him through a plate glass window. I’ll bet a little spot of violence would shut him right the f^ck up, as with most bullies.

(This is the blogger decrying the treatment of terrorist captives)

Liberal Trolls, be my guest.

hawkdriver on July 21, 2010 at 8:11 PM

Reading the latest little bit about their reactions to The Election Of O, I’m left with one reaction.

I hate these people.

I hate them with a burning rage.

I hate them with a raging passion to see them spend the rest of their lives unemployed and unemployable.

I’d better not say any more, or I’ll sound like one of them.

JEM on July 21, 2010 at 8:16 PM

JEM on July 21, 2010 at 8:16 PM

I actually know what you mean. Reading the unfiltered words of someone like Jeff Toobin from CNN asking what made Michael Barone “insane”. Barone is the most neutral political commentator out there; of any network. Really, can you watch CNN politics with any modicum of seriousness now?

All of them on that thread should have their names and their comments up for all to see.

I have been saying for a long time and to anyone who would listen that the media was completely biased against us Conservatives, but I had no idea how bad it was.

hawkdriver on July 21, 2010 at 8:29 PM

I’d buy you a clue – but I don’t I have enough money to buy one large enough for you.

You want to take ONE TAPE from Breitbart and use it to impeach all of conservative news – and conservatives. Won’t work buddy.

Try your deflection elsewhere. How bout you address the case in point – which is your liberal journalist buddies discussing ending freedom of speech in some pretty serious ways.

Breitbart doesn’t even begin to pop up on that radar screen boss.

HondaV65 on July 21, 2010 at 9:32 AM

Trolls like Tom Shitley only jump on libertarians like Rush when one quote is taken out of context !

cableguy615 on July 21, 2010 at 9:08 PM

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