Yeah, Radar had the audio

posted at 8:32 pm on July 9, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

Since I questioned Radar Online’s credibility on this story, it’s only fair to write a follow-up post now that they have presented the evidence behind it.  A week ago, the gossip site said they had a recording of actor and producer Mel Gibson using the N-word in an abusive rant directed at his former girlfriend, but didn’t post it.  In today’s follow-up, people can hear what certainly sounds like the very distinctive and recognizable voice of Gibson offering, er, advice to Oksana Grigorieva:

Mel Gibson was caught on tape spewing a vile, hate-filled racist rant and RadarOnline.comhas exclusively obtained the audio proof.

We broke the story that Mel told Oksana Grigorieva, the mother of his love child, “You’re an embarrassment to me. You look like a f***ing bitch in heat, and if you get raped by a pack of n***ers, it will be your fault.” RadarOnline.com had heard the tape.

Now, in a blockbuster world exclusive, RadarOnline.com is posting the audio of Mel’s disgusting outburst. You can listen to it here.

WARNING: This audio contains graphic and racist language. It has been left unedited so that the full impact of Mel’s rant can be heard.

For obvious rea$on$, Radar isn’t allowing other sites to embed the recording, so be sure to click over to listen.  Here’s the transcript:

“You go out in public and it’s a f*cking embarrassment to me. You look like a f*cking bitch in heat. And if you get raped by a pack of ni**ers it will be  your fault. Alright? Because you provoked it. You are provocatively dressed all the time with your fake boobs that you feel you  have to show off. I don’t like it. I don’t want that woman. I don’t want  you. I don’t trust you. I don’t love you.”

In the previous post, commenters debated the use of the N-word in the context of the entertainment industry, but this isn’t a shout out to his peeps.  Assuming this is Gibson, the actor uses the term in an extremely derogatory sense, as if rape necessarily follows from skin color.  For that matter, says that rape comes from dressing provocatively, as if it’s a rational response to tight clothing, which is hardly true and perpetuates the notion that rape is a woman’s fault.  Gibson doesn’t sound noticeably intoxicated in this recording, either, unlike his anti-Semitic rant directed at a police officer during an arrest for drunk driving.

The recording does answer one question.  At the time of the initial story, many wondered why someone with so much to lose would leave a message like that on a recording device.  The tape makes it plain that Grigorieva recorded a live conversation, which may or may not run afoul of wiretapping laws.  As I recall, California is not one of the states that requires that both parties be informed of recording telephone conversations, but I’m not sure.  It may have been why Radar waited to publish the actual audio, although it’s more likely they just wanted to string out the story for a longer period.

After having heard the tape, do you think Mel Gibson’s career is over, or will this be just another celebrity scandal?

Update: If this helps make up your mind, William Morris dumped him as a client today, saying, “At this point he doesn’t seem to be in need of an agent.” Indeed.


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The weird part of our culture now is how someone can say something derrogatory and be completely banished yet many musicians and stars in the past were racist, rapists, pedophiles, wife beaters and even murderers, yet still managed to have successful careers. If you count in politics and pro sports, they still can. Why is it that this is different?

di butler on July 9, 2010 at 10:07 PM

Call me an idiot, but I can’t hold the dark recesses of people’s souls against them. It’s what people do that matters, how they treat others. Yes, racism is often personally disgusting to me, noxious, revolting, sickening. But my own tender sensitivities shouldn’t be dispositive. That’s for the narcissistic and politically correct left.

This is the mistake of our times, ostracizing people over private feelings of bigotry, anger, hate, rather than focusing on what they do. Me saying this, must make me a bigot too. Go ahead, smear away.

Roman Polanski raped a child. Why does he get a standing O at the Oscars?

Paul-Cincy on July 10, 2010 at 8:53 AM

not much of a “Racist” rant.
Rant yes, racist… not so much.
Killing cracker babies, now that’s a rant!

mjbrooks3 on July 10, 2010 at 8:56 AM

Ed wrote: For that matter, says that rape comes from dressing provocatively, as if it’s a rational response to tight clothing, which is hardly true and perpetuates the notion that rape is a woman’s fault.

This is a detailed and thoughtful analysis of a spontaneous, private expression of anger during a falling out between two lovers. Mel is upset she shakes her stuff in front of other men. That’s all I got from that.

Paul-Cincy on July 10, 2010 at 9:02 AM

wow, sounds like Mister Gibson needs some help.

nwpammy on July 10, 2010 at 9:12 AM

Mr. Gibson appears to be extremely ill. I realize that the public does really know any of these folks but it’s hard to believe that this behavior wouldn’t have alienated everyone regardless of the product he was putting out.

Cindy Munford on July 10, 2010 at 8:35 AM

I think he’s finding it hard to deal with getting old.

ddrintn on July 10, 2010 at 9:17 AM

BTW: Did anyone reach Danny Glover for comment?

BuckeyeSam on July 10, 2010 at 8:37 AM

I crossed him off my list a while ago and I am pretty sure “no one” has been offended by anything he has been saying. Apparently crazy is a disease in Hollywood and it manifests itself differently from person to person.

Cindy Munford on July 10, 2010 at 9:17 AM

ddrintn on July 10, 2010 at 9:17 AM

That could be. I hope he still has someone who loves him to help. I’ve know people who talk like that, but they were much older and from a different time.

Cindy Munford on July 10, 2010 at 9:22 AM

Lets hit the major points that people have been relying on:

1) “It’s a private conversation.”
So were Dave Wiegel’s emails Weigel’s a little different in that his comments related to his job, but some comments are so abhorrent that we punish people for saying them. The STATE doesn’t do it. But a civilized society says, “You’re disgusting.” See also, Mr. Shabazz’s comments about 9/11 and that CNN reporter’s tweet about Hezbollah. If you cheered the CNN and WaPo firings, why are you defending Mel?

Trent1289 on July 10, 2010 at 8:00 AM

Let’s get this straight – Mel wasn’t employed as an ambassador to the NAACP or a member of the Nation of Islam. Weigel claimed to be a conservative and promoted himself as a representative of conservative thought but secretly hated us all. Shabazz’ comments were for PUBLIC consumption. The CNN reporters tweets were PUBLIC consumption.

What Mel said was in the heat of an argument with his lover. Not a political treastise on the world order. He used salty racist language in his private argument so he’s a racist and must be punished. But on the other hand, he starred in many movies where he ecried racism and worked intimately with a liberal black man and another with a lesbian. Oh no no no… this week the media tells us to hate him, so hate him we must.

I’ve hung around both white, black AND asian people who were good people that use similar language and have the same attitudes. I wouldn’t want them holding government jobs, nor would I recommend them for nobel peace prices. But I would trust them intimately to help me out of a jam and be friends.

If you’re going to think as a liberal sheep does, why bother being a conservative?

Skywise on July 10, 2010 at 9:26 AM

Some conservatives are as bad as liberals.

Trent1289 on July 10, 2010 at 8:00 AM

People are…people. Period, end of story. You might find higher concentrations of certain noxious believes among particular Political/Religious Ideologies, but deep down people are still people.

As a white man married to an Indian (asian) I have traveled extensively in South Asia and I can tell you that Racism is as common as the nose on your face. In fact, it is quite normal and a holdover from early human development.

Different groups don’t like other groups, and within ‘like’ groups, mixed individuals are not liked. It all boils down to a dislike of the ‘other’. Forced integration is a failure, all you have to do is look at how a majority of people prefer to be with others of their own kind and tend to congregate that way.

Personally, I do not like Blacks of African ethnic origin (there are a few exceptions) anf not because their skin is different than mine. I dislike them because of the behavior exhibited by a substantially large percentage of them.

Draw your own conclusions.

PakviRoti on July 10, 2010 at 9:37 AM

PakviRoti on July 10, 2010 at 9:37 AM

Ditto’s!!!

Keemo on July 10, 2010 at 9:53 AM

For those of you too dense to understand why the word “n****r” might have a more negative connotation than the word “cracker”, I’m not even asking you to pick up a history book, only that you take a listen to how the word was used in Mel Gibson’s rant.

Apparently, Mel Gibson sees this black guy as nothing more than an animal who wants to rape his big-titted girlfriend. Well, screw Mel Gibson and anyone who can’t see what was so vile about what he had to say. If the guy felt that way about his “baby momma”. I’m pretty sure that he meant what he had to say about black people. It makes me even more upset because Braveheart is one of my guilty pleasures.

For those of you so concerned about “privacy rights” I’m pretty sure if anybody ever found any of my old emails or taped my phone messages, you’d never find or hear anything as hateful or disgusting as that. Unfortunately, it sounds as if the same can’t be said for some of you.

Lastly, for those of you who want to politicize every-single-thing and compare this to the recent Black Panther/DOJ issue, give me a break. Two wrongs don’t make a right. We might have a black president and a black head of the Justice department, but they were empowered by an awful lot of patronizing, guilt-ridden white liberals. Not only that, but the mass media that is refusing to cover the story is filled with even more.

Ironically, what’s even more disgusting than what the Panthers and Gibson said is the way the government and some of you would just rather turn a blind eye to it as long as it serves your purposes. In the government’s case: quash some political baggage, and for some of you to confirm your resentment to minorities.

mazer9 on July 10, 2010 at 10:17 AM

mazer9 on July 10, 2010 at 10:17 AM

Nobody is saying that what he said was *not* bad. But I don’t think that because he uses the term that that makes him a racist. He worked intimately with Danny Glover in 3 movies that were all about decrying racism. Why would a bonafide racist do that?

Besides, look at the “racism” in your message –

but they were empowered by an awful lot of patronizing, guilt-ridden white liberals

Sure, you’re not using the inflammatory words there but what you’re saying perpetuates the same stereotypes Mel Gibson did.

Above all, in Mel’s case we’re dealing with GOSSIP that isn’t a crime, wasn’t publicly issued as a statement and said in the heat of an argument with his lover who is now using it to get an edge in her divorce settlement. We’re destroying him for it because we’re “better than him”?

BS.

Skywise on July 10, 2010 at 10:34 AM

Ironically, what’s even more disgusting than what the Panthers and Gibson said is the way the government and some of you would just rather turn a blind eye to it as long as it serves your purposes. mazer9 on July 10, 2010 at 10:17 AM

Except for the rant at the polling location (intimidation), I have zero problem with either of these gentlemen practicing their free speech. It reveals them for what they are and I appreciate the opportunity of knowing. Free speech isn’t a guarantee that I am going to approve. I don’t believe in “hate” speech laws but I think threatening to kill people and their children might come really close to yelling “Fire”. I guess not being more specific is the tipping point.

Cindy Munford on July 10, 2010 at 10:41 AM

Along with the Kennedys, another embarassment to the Irish American community.

NavyMustang on July 10, 2010 at 10:49 AM

The man has anger issues. He used the n word in a private conversation in which he lost it with his girlfriend. I don’t really care.

SC.Charlie on July 10, 2010 at 10:52 AM

Gibson is a natural born artistic extremist in a cultural milieu that often prizes such types, so I can’t imagine why he should be finished unless his fans suddenly acquire a heretofore undetected prudery and boycott his future projects. What actually puzzles me is how come Mel isn’t French.

Seth Halpern on July 10, 2010 at 11:04 AM

Ed -

Probably a little late for this but are you aware you missed one of the F-bombs?

“You go out in public and it’s a f*cking embarrassment to me. You look like a f cking bitch in heat.

Just sayin’.

pain train on July 10, 2010 at 11:09 AM

It was a PRIVATE conversation. What kind of scumbag would record a private conversation?

Gibson makes fantastic films. I could care less if he talks like a sailor.

John the Libertarian on July 10, 2010 at 2:34 AM

This is a walk off grand slam. $ $ $ Thanks, John.

I will add that even if he didn’t make films I still would not care what he says in private. It’s quite troubling that we’re now willing to pry into people’s private, PERSONAL (read: non-political or professional) conversations to admonish them. I swear this country is being run like an elementary school faculty lounge.

Metro on July 10, 2010 at 11:38 AM

Why do we censor n**ger but we crazy crackers don’t censor cracker?

eforhan on July 10, 2010 at 11:43 AM

Bizarro No. 1 on July 10, 2010 at 7:42 AM

At what point are women responsible for their choices?

DrMagnolias on July 10, 2010 at 11:46 AM

For that matter, says that rape comes from dressing provocatively, as if it’s a rational response to tight clothing, which is hardly true and perpetuates the notion that rape is a woman’s fault

It is not rational, but provocativeness can certainly trigger the irrational mind, and it is the irrational mind which commits the criminal acts. As much prrof as they have over the randomness of rape, and the variety of victims, it is also true rapists tend to be heavy users of porn. Peeping toms tend to advance to rapist

Exit question: his career should be over, unless he can get rehabilitated. Gibson is supposedly a bad, heavy drunk.

A doctor I know told me, while in medical school they could not use the brains of drunks for study, because the brains would fall apart in your hands.

I also knew a lady with an alcoholic husband who had blackouts, sometimes lasting days. During the blackouts he was a different person, violent and abusive and she feared him greatly. He would retain no memory of the episodes. It seems the psyche in this altered state chooses the forbidden as if it was the path least trodden and therfore easier to get through. Everyone knows the ugly drunk. A lot of the very ugly is brain damage

Mel needs a CAT scan and dementia tests, which he is rich enough to refuse. He was set up by a con artist, who scammed another anto abortion actor with a love child and grief

I think he is not toast, but he needs a neurologist and a psychologist to save him. Saving this lost sheep is as important as saving his career

entagor on July 10, 2010 at 11:51 AM

All Mel has to do is go on camera, look straight into the lens, shake his finger and declare, “I had sex with her alright! At least she’s not a fat beast like Monica Lewinsky!”

Have Al Gore over for a party Mel! All will be forgiven!!!

Roy Rogers on July 10, 2010 at 12:17 PM

Along with the Kennedys, another embarassment to the Irish American community.

NavyMustang on July 10, 2010 at 10:49 AM

I thought Mel was Australian?

Firefly_76 on July 10, 2010 at 12:22 PM

Firefly_76 on July 10, 2010 at 12:22 PM

He was born in America. His family moved to Australia when he was a kid.

Disturb the Universe on July 10, 2010 at 12:36 PM

Ed, what, exactly, is this wierd obsession you seem to have with Gibson?

He is just another air head actor, just like his on screen buddy Glover.

And just as utterly inconsequential as Glover.

Next thing you know, there will be a whole series of posts about some moron playing a child’s game…… never mind.

Jim708 on July 10, 2010 at 12:37 PM

Roman Polanski raped a child. Why does he get a standing O at the Oscars?

Paul-Cincy on July 10, 2010 at 8:53 AM

Because he did not use the “N-word”?

To add to your most excellent comment, the issues of sexism and racism have become parodies. I read a commentary on sports that stated that great was being overused. If every play is a great play how do you distinguish anything. The same is now true for sexism and racism. The words, concepts are so over used they’ve become a parody.

jdkchem on July 10, 2010 at 12:38 PM

He seems confused about whether or not her breasts are real.

Disturb the Universe on July 10, 2010 at 12:44 PM

Along with the Kennedys, another embarassment to the Irish American community.

NavyMustang on July 10, 2010 at 10:49 AM

I thought Mel was Australian?

Firefly_76 on July 10, 2010 at 12:22 PM

He was born in New Rochelle, NY. Didn’t move to the land of Oz until he was around 13. His father didn’t want his sons to be forced to fight in Vietnam.

NavyMustang on July 10, 2010 at 12:48 PM

Along with the Kennedys, another embarassment to the Irish American community.

NavyMustang on July 10, 2010 at 10:49 AM

I thought Mel was Australian?

Firefly_76 on July 10, 2010 at 12:22 PM

He was born in New Rochelle Peekskill, NY. Didn’t move to the land of Oz until he was around 13. His father didn’t want his sons to be forced to fight in Vietnam.

NavyMustang on July 10, 2010 at 12:48 PM

My bad. Same general area.

NavyMustang on July 10, 2010 at 12:51 PM

He’s trash and every woman’s nightmare to end up with.

fastestslug on July 10, 2010 at 12:54 PM

I really dislike it when private conversations are published for all to hear.

There is only one man who ever walked this earth who was the exact same in public and private. Only one man who was ever completely free of sin.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone at Mel Gibson.

David2.0 on July 10, 2010 at 12:55 PM

His father didn’t want his sons to be forced to fight in Vietnam.

NavyMustang on July 10, 2010 at 12:48 PM

(Doesn’t Mel get the crazy racism and anti-Semitism from the Dad?)
This is ironic, in a way, because one of Mel’s best parts is in “We were Soldiers…”

I’ve had a crush on this man since I saw him in “The Year of Living Dangerously” 30 years ago, but he’s obviously a jerk.
I think he’s a raging alcoholic with the middle-aged crazies.
Not that rare a condition (sadly) but you’d think he’d be capable of better.
He’s got the maturity, character and a judgment of an out-of-control 10-year-old.
This is why really good-looking men don’t get the girls-because they know they’re good looking and treat women like dirt.
That only lasts so long at his age however, particularly with that mouth and temper.
(I do think it’s odd that the woman just happened to have a tape recorder handy, though, and she doesn’t sound that upset for a lady who’s boyfriend is raging at her. Betcha she planned the “gotcha” as I’m sure it wasn’t the first time Mel’s called her up and cursed her out when he’s blasted.)

Jenfidel on July 10, 2010 at 1:01 PM

Disappointing.

“A good man does the right thing, even when no one else is looking.”

BruthaMan on July 10, 2010 at 1:30 PM

Supreme irony that showtime is running “What Women Want” while I listen to Mel Gibson call his ex a whore.

aic4ever on July 10, 2010 at 1:32 PM

He left his wife and eight kids for that woman, what a loser he is!

Irenaeus on July 10, 2010 at 1:40 PM

According to TMZ Mel Gibson’s agent died last week. William Morris Agency’s CEO Ari Emanuel has been gunning for Mel ever since his anti-semitic, drunken tirade. And Gibson’s agent dying gave Ari the perfect opportunity to boot Mel after his latest controversy.

It’s ironic that Ari Emanuel has gotten into trouble for his own racist comments. But I guess being the brother of Rahm Emanuel and a big Hollywood Democratic fundraiser offers one a different playing field.

Christina_M on July 10, 2010 at 2:33 PM

He left his wife and eight kids for that woman, what a loser he is!

Irenaeus on July 10, 2010 at 1:40 PM

I bet his wife and kids thank their lucky stars he left. Hopefully, she found a real man and father to replace him.

fastestslug on July 10, 2010 at 2:53 PM

In The Passion of the Christ, Mel’s hand holds the nail on Jesus’ wrist. Mel did that purposely, in reference to his own sin.

That we all could be so self-aware. Instead, most Americans think they’re “good people”. Yet I would bet we’ve all said things in private that we later regret.

I’m not excusing Mel’s rage or his use of racial slurs. Not at all. But at least he’s willing to admit that he is sinful.

Grace_is_sufficient on July 10, 2010 at 3:30 PM

At what point are women responsible for their choices?

DrMagnolias on July 10, 2010 at 11:46 AM

This is what gets ignored or swept under the rug. Women do have a responsibility for their choices. I was in an abusive marriage (it made this look like no biggie) for 14 yrs. And I d*mn well know that I had blame and fault in the situation, if for nothing more than the fact I left 7 times and yet couldn’t fully commit to leave-leaving. It always reminds me of how Nicole Simpson moved just a mile or two from OJ when she left, yet knew he was volatile. Of course it wasn’t her fault she was murdered, but she didn’t commit to leaving. You have to do almost a Witness Protection thing if you are truly serious about quitting an abusive person. And yes, you do know it. It’s sad, unfair, and horrible, especially if you have kids together, but it is the only way. This recording is just a rat teasing the snake.

di butler on July 10, 2010 at 3:49 PM

I’m with Mel.

The DOJ has determined this behavior acceptable in public. It’s darn well acceptable in the privacy of your own home – especially when it’s a bait.

Virginia Shanahan on July 9, 2010 at 8:49 PM

Hmmm…a rare and sensible post!

I agree with you, by the way.

His rant is lowdown and awful but I have heard far, far worse rants over far, far less and from more than a few “other” Hollywood-ites.

People outside the industry just do.not.understand how craven most of it — people wise — actually is.

Gibson was obviously baited by this woman and what isn’t being hashed over is what the woman actually did or said to Gibson to get such a dreadful response from him (on the tape).

She had to have flung something very awful at him to elicit such a crude response from him.

Lourdes on July 10, 2010 at 3:57 PM

Mel’s getting a little old to star in movies anyway.

Jenfidel on July 9, 2010 at 8:49 PM

He said a while ago that he thought he was up for his last movie, anyway, something to that effect, that he was considering a career conclusion as to acting.

On the other hand, it IS the film BUSINESS, not the film LIKENESS.

The industry is still available to anyone who has talent and Gibson hasn’t lost his. If he has more good ideas for roles or films to produce, watch things fall in line for him.

Lourdes on July 10, 2010 at 4:01 PM

eh on July 10, 2010 at 3:28 AM
When referring to our Saviour, one capitalizes His name, and even the pronoun referring to His name, Jesus.

I find your reference to Gibson’s “one lousy movie about Jesus”, (you did not capitalize the Name) gratuitously insulting not to Gibson, but to the Lord.

If this was your intent, then all your speechifying about the n word is null and void. If this was not your intent, then straighten up and fly right. I was interested in what you had to say until I saw that you showed disrespect to the Lord.

tigerlily on July 10, 2010 at 4:02 PM

He left his wife and eight kids for that woman, what a loser he is!

Irenaeus on July 10, 2010 at 1:40 PM

I think his marriage was long over before he got involved with “that woman”. His ex-wife has her own significant other, too, by the way.

Likely they remained together for their children and the business they’d built up, is my guess, but the marriage it seems was over a while ago.

Gibson probably was lonely and being a man fell for the obvious hook, line and sinker that a flirty, available woman made available to him.

I think she was running a number on Gibson and I still think so.

Lourdes on July 10, 2010 at 4:04 PM

Why do we censor n**ger but we crazy crackers don’t censor cracker?

eforhan on July 10, 2010 at 11:43 AM

Please tell me you’re not really this effing stupid.

Constant Parrhesia on July 10, 2010 at 4:23 PM

At what point are women responsible for their choices?

DrMagnolias on July 10, 2010 at 11:46 AM

This is what gets ignored or swept under the rug. Women do have a responsibility for their choices. I was in an abusive marriage (it made this look like no biggie) for 14 yrs. And I d*mn well know that I had blame and fault in the situation, if for nothing more than the fact I left 7 times and yet couldn’t fully commit to leave-leaving. It always reminds me of how Nicole Simpson moved just a mile or two from OJ when she left, yet knew he was volatile. Of course it wasn’t her fault she was murdered, but she didn’t commit to leaving. You have to do almost a Witness Protection thing if you are truly serious about quitting an abusive person. And yes, you do know it. It’s sad, unfair, and horrible, especially if you have kids together, but it is the only way. This recording is just a rat teasing the snake.

di butler on July 10, 2010 at 3:49 PM

It is NEVER a woman’s fault that a man rapes her. END. OF. STORY.

Constant Parrhesia on July 10, 2010 at 4:26 PM

It is NEVER a woman’s fault that a man rapes her. END. OF. STORY.

Constant Parrhesia on July 10, 2010 at 4:26 PM

Learn to read better. This was about verbal and physical abuse, not rape. Domestic issues, nothing to do with being raped in the streets for poor wardrobe choices.

di butler on July 10, 2010 at 5:06 PM

Roman Polanski raped a child. Why does he get a standing O at the Oscars?

Paul-Cincy on July 10, 2010 at 8:53 AM

Because Roman Polanski is a leftist elite. Hollywood will always applaud and forgive even the most heinous of crimes by one of their own (they are above the law, in their view).

Mel Gibson, however, by making “The Passion of the Christ” has shown himself to be a God-fearing and God-loving Catholic.

This puts him waaaay to the right of the leftist elitists (despite the fact that many, many Catholics, if not most, vote Democratic despite their Church’s view on the sanctity of life and abortion). Thus, they will ostracize and destroy him for his mere acceptance of Our Lord.

The standing ovation given Roman Polanski was much akin to the standing ovation that the Democrats gave the President of Mexico when he was here condemning Arizona because of their (much less harsh than his country’s) new immigration law; both show much more about the people giving the ovation than they would ever normally admit.

Theophile on July 10, 2010 at 5:24 PM

Gibson can probably continue as a producer and director. His films have been successful, and he has the money to self-finance if he can’t attract backers.

But he’s all done as an actor.

I’m surprised by the number of people who say that they and their friends talk like this all the time in private. Really? You insult your girlfriend, use the n-word, and scream abuse at people? I hope not.

BTW, there’s apparently another recording in which Braveheart admits to punching his wife twice in the face (while she was holding their baby).

He’s a psychopath. And his image is damaged beyond repair.

sauropod on July 10, 2010 at 5:27 PM

In The Passion of the Christ, Mel’s hand holds the nail on Jesus’ wrist. Mel did that purposely, in reference to his own sin…. I’m not excusing Mel’s rage or his use of racial slurs. Not at all. But at least he’s willing to admit that he is sinful.

Grace_is_sufficient on July 10, 2010 at 3:30 PM

This is why I could never be a Christian. I reject the notion that if a person admits he is sinful, he’s accomplished something noteworthy. It’s the easiest thing in the world to say, “I’m a sinner.” Sociopaths use this strategy all the time to gain their victims’ sympathy and trust. Abusive spouses are especially prone to this behavior. It’s a means of maintaining control by manipulating the emotions of their victim/enabler.

There’s a naiveté about Christianity that I just can’t get past.

When referring to our Saviour, one capitalizes His name, and even the pronoun referring to His name, Jesus. I find your reference to Gibson’s “one lousy movie about Jesus”, (you did not capitalize the Name) gratuitously insulting not to Gibson, but to the Lord…. I was interested in what you had to say until I saw that you showed disrespect to the Lord.

tigerlily on July 10, 2010 at 4:02 PM

This is another reason I could never be a Christan. Too many of them talk like this. “The Name”? Jeepers! And by the way, capitalizing the pronoun referring to Jesus (or God) is optional; just look at various translations of the Bible and you’ll see that some do it and some don’t.

sauropod on July 10, 2010 at 5:38 PM

He worked intimately with Danny Glover in 3 movies that were all about decrying racism. Why would a bonafide racist do that?

Mel Gibson and Danny Glover in a movie decrying racism. Hello, irony.

patriette on July 10, 2010 at 6:00 PM

You are allowed to say “cracker,” but not allowed to use “the N word.” Because it is hurtful and demeaning to black people. Now, looking at the situation of the average inner-city black person (i.e. drugs, single moms, welfare, a terrible public education that teaches them nothing and encourages their sense of victimhood, corrupt politicians, poorly educated and racist pastors) you might think that a word was the least of his or her troubles. But you would be wrong.

GTR640 on July 10, 2010 at 6:03 PM

Yeah, I thought those movies were about kicking ass.

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Papa Ray on July 10, 2010 at 6:26 PM

It was a PRIVATE conversation. What kind of scumbag would record a private conversation?

John the Libertarian on July 10, 2010 at 2:34 AM

A rational one attempting to protect itself from an irrational one.

rukiddingme on July 10, 2010 at 6:47 PM

Roman Polanski raped a child. Why does he get a standing O at the Oscars?

Paul-Cincy on July 10, 2010 at 8:53 AM

I’m not defending Hollywood on this, because what Polanski did was reprehensible. But by the time he won Best Director for The Pianist (which was brilliant, by the way), the facts of the then 25-year-old case had been pretty well obscured. It wasn’t until a few years later, with the release of the HBO documentary and, even later, his arrest, that people really started to focus on the specifics of what he had done.

YYZ on July 10, 2010 at 6:52 PM

Not to take away too much of the stupidity of what he said… but on a scale of 1 to 10 this is about a -2 compared to what the NBPP people are saying… in fact yelling at whites on S. Street in Philly.

RalphyBoy on July 10, 2010 at 7:01 PM

I think she was running a number on Gibson and I still think so.

Lourdes on July 10, 2010 at 4:04 PM

Yep.

Can you say “Gold digger”?

Roy Rogers on July 10, 2010 at 7:11 PM

It’s the easiest thing in the world to say, “I’m a sinner.”

sauropod on July 10, 2010 at 5:38 PM

Of course it is. I’m not talking about saying the words. I’m talking about actually believing it, actually volunteering your hand to the nail because you KNOW that you are sinful.

Comparing sociopaths and Christians because the former SAY “I’m a sinner” and the latter actually believe is an incredibly weak assertion. It’s so weak, it’s downright flaccid.

This is another reason I could never be a Christan. Too many of them talk like this. “The Name”? Jeepers!

1 Corinthians 1:18: “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”

Grace_is_sufficient on July 10, 2010 at 8:39 PM

Mel Gibson must be a Republican and probably a conservative to boot. Now if he was a democrat and a liberal- the media and the Hollywood types would be circling the wagons around him. Just a week ago, we heard our President and a former President lauding Senator Bob Bryd. Bryd was a high official in the Klan and probably spoke more racial statements and burned more crosses than Mel Gibson ever did.

flintstone on July 10, 2010 at 9:24 PM

Gibson’s career?

It’s just been revoked! :D

The Evil Doctor K on July 10, 2010 at 10:34 PM

I’m not talking about saying the words. I’m talking about actually believing it, actually volunteering your hand to the nail because you KNOW that you are sinful.

Okay, but what evidence is there that Mel believes anything of the sort? He seems like a classic sociopath to me. He is obviously an abusive husband, a narcissist, and an egomaniac. He wanted the world to know it was his hand on the hammer. It sounds like another aspect of the persona he has built up for public consumption. The private man appears to be very different.

Comparing sociopaths and Christians because the former SAY “I’m a sinner” and the latter actually believe is an incredibly weak assertion. It’s so weak, it’s downright flaccid.

I’m not talking about all Christians. I’m talking about Mr. Gibson, whom I do regard as a sociopath.

However, I do think that, in general, Christians are naive when it comes to this kind of emotional manipulation. Look at Mike Huckabee, who pardoned a violent criminal because he claimed to have repented. The felon then killed a cop (or was it two cops?) in a murder spree.

Though it may not win me any friends, I think this naiveté can be traced back to Jesus himself, who – whatever his undoubted good points – appears to have been very naive about human psychology and power relationships. (If he was actually the all-knowing son of God, then this would be impossible; but I regard Jesus as an interesting and important historical figure, not a divine being.)

1 Corinthians 1:18: “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”

I know, but nearly every religion, nearly every philosophy, and for that matter nearly every cult says exactly the same thing. Christianity’s claim to unique status would be challenged by Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and even Scientologists and Objectivists (to name just a few).

I do think there’s a core of truth in all religious traditions – what Aldous Huxley called “the perennial philosophy” – but exclusionism is self-defeating, IMO.

YMMV …

sauropod on July 10, 2010 at 10:36 PM

A rational one attempting to protect itself from an irrational one.

rukiddingme on July 10, 2010 at 6:47 PM

Or… a conniving one attempting to extort an emotional one in pain.

John the Libertarian on July 11, 2010 at 1:23 AM

“Please, sir, may I have some more?”

Shy Guy on July 11, 2010 at 1:30 AM

Black or white…Everyone reading this has used that word before.

None of you have ever had it publicized…

freedomplow on July 11, 2010 at 3:24 AM

freedomplow on July 11, 2010 at 3:24 AM

I know for a fact that not everyone has used that word, but you have just established that you have.

DrMagnolias on July 11, 2010 at 4:02 AM

It is NEVER a woman’s fault that a man rapes her. END. OF. STORY.

Constant Parrhesia on July 10, 2010 at 4:26 PM

Learn to read better. This was about verbal and physical abuse, not rape. Domestic issues, nothing to do with being raped in the streets for poor wardrobe choices.

di butler on July 10, 2010 at 5:06 PM

Sounds like you are the one that should learn to listen better, because Gibson is clearly talking about being raped by a pack of N***ers on that tape. Clean the crap out of your ears.

Constant Parrhesia on July 11, 2010 at 6:34 AM

I think this naiveté can be traced back to Jesus himself, who – whatever his undoubted good points – appears to have been very naive about human psychology and power relationships. (If he was actually the all-knowing son of God, then this would be impossible; but I regard Jesus as an interesting and important historical figure, not a divine being.)

sauropod on July 10, 2010 at 10:36 PM

Sauropod, I triple dog dare you to engage in some research this summer. ;) I believed the very same thing about Jesus once upon a time. (Though I never thought Him naive…LOL) Then I did my reseach–historical, evidential research. Start with “The Case for Christ” by Lee Strobel. He was an atheist, a legal journalist who investigated, literally, the case for Christ. It’s not as in-depth as you might want to go later, but it’s a good start. If you really want truth, what do you have to lose?

I’ll leave you with this quote from C.S. Lewis about the ill-advised “Jesus was a great moral teacher, but not the Son Of God” idea “modern” secular thinkers like to claim. Lewis was also a brilliant atheist who was confronted by Truth. Then he became a brilliant Christian. :) This is from his great tome, “Mere Christianity”, pages 40-41. I dare you to read that book too. :-)

“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.’ That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”

Grace_is_sufficient on July 11, 2010 at 7:26 AM

Sounds like you are the one that should learn to listen better, because Gibson is clearly talking about being raped by a pack of N***ers on that tape. Clean the crap out of your ears.

Constant Parrhesia on July 11, 2010 at 6:34 AM

Annnnd Paul and I were discussing other parts of the issue, such as the abuse. I am well aware of the rape by n*ggers comment, it’s been discussed to death. I also stipulated early on that Mel was a racist and a misogynist. You’re aren’t very complex, are you?

di butler on July 11, 2010 at 7:58 AM

di butler on July 11, 2010 at 7:58 AM

Why be complex when you can throw simplistic platitudes that are unrelated to the topic as it is being discussed?

DrMagnolias on July 11, 2010 at 9:16 AM

Who cares? Rational humans beings grounded in reality don’t care what one guy says. But celebrity obsessed, dysfunctionals who trend to vote for democrats because they think that makes them an enlightened person care. They think it’s the end of the world and twist one persons bad behavior to indict anything or anyone that may have been associated with him, even in the most tenuous circumstances. Oh yeah, squishy’s who yearn to be famous care, too.

peacenprosperity on July 11, 2010 at 9:28 AM

Was that a racist rant or gangsta rap lyrics? I’m confused.

olesparkie on July 11, 2010 at 9:45 AM

Not excusing what he said because that was about as bad as it gets, I feel sorry for him. I know pilots who worked with him on Air America and they said he was a great guy. When the days shooting was over he joined the grunts at the local dive bars (there was every nationality and color represented on that shoot) and he was kind, funny and a regular guy. Salty? Yes. Politically correct? Never.

But then, that was before he went off the deep end, made Passion, dumped his wife and mother of — is it five or seven kids? I can’t remember — for a gold digging model who clearly can’t stand him.

Dude. You talk the talk † but you definitely do not walk the walk — or even try to anymore. Get out of Hollywood. get away from the people there and get your life back.

BrideOfRove on July 11, 2010 at 9:52 AM

I think his career is over. He’s gone so far over the line now that people will avoid his movies.

AnninCA on July 11, 2010 at 10:43 AM

Sounds like Gibson got angry with his hot, little number. She can always leave him. She doesn’t have to stick around. Many people who rant in this way are just trying to be hateful and aren’t educated enough to zing them with an intelligent insult.

Vince on July 11, 2010 at 11:51 AM

When he WASN’T drinking he was semi-normal…but those who know anything about Mel’s history, know that this guy has ALWAYS been a mean drunk. I’ve been watching his career for decades now and I’m convinced he’s completely off the wagon.

Sad. Very sad.

Tho, I personally think we should be re-claiming the word “n!gger”. I don’t think anyone should be able to tell me in THIS country what words I can and cannot use. Period.

tickleddragon on July 11, 2010 at 12:29 PM

Yawn.

Badger40 on July 11, 2010 at 12:29 PM

Not excusing what he said because that was about as bad as it gets, I feel sorry for him. I know pilots who worked with him on Air America and they said he was a great guy. When the days shooting was over he joined the grunts at the local dive bars (there was every nationality and color represented on that shoot) and he was kind, funny and a regular guy. Salty? Yes. Politically correct? Never.

But then, that was before he went off the deep end, made Passion, dumped his wife and mother of — is it five or seven kids? I can’t remember — for a gold digging model who clearly can’t stand him.

Dude. You talk the talk † but you definitely do not walk the walk — or even try to anymore. Get out of Hollywood. get away from the people there and get your life back.

BrideOfRove on July 11, 2010 at 9:52 AM

The difference is alcohol. Period. He was still drinking when he did AIR AMERICA, but then hanging out and drinking was part of the plan then. So, of course he was a neat guy hanging with the extras in the bar.

And he wasn’t off the wagon for PASSION…He was in a pensive, spiritual phase when doing that film. It was AFTER PASSION that he fell off the wagon.

And it is seven children, with Robin.

tickleddragon on July 11, 2010 at 12:33 PM

Were any of you half-hearted defenders of Mel outraged when Alec Baldwin’s ex-wife made his phone message public? I really don’t see the difference except Mel’s was even more psychotic. We shouldn’t play favorites on weirdo celebs.

Speedwagon82 on July 11, 2010 at 1:16 PM

Speedwagon82 on July 11, 2010 at 1:16 PM

Didn’t Bassinger divorce Baldwin because of physical AND verbal abuse? I have no sympathy for Baldwin. He’s mean when sober.

BrideOfRove on July 11, 2010 at 2:02 PM

Sauropod, I triple dog dare you to engage in some research this summer. … Start with “The Case for Christ” by Lee Strobel. … It’s not as in-depth as you might want to go later, but it’s a good start. If you really want truth, what do you have to lose?

Why do you assume I haven’t done the research? I’ve read three of Strobel’s books, including the one you mentioned, as well as C.S. Lewis’s apologetics. In fact, I’ve read dozens of books about NT studies, including the first three (lengthy) books in N.T. Wright’s ongoing series that started with “The New Testament and the People of God.” I’ve read liberal scholars like Marcus Borg and J.D. Crossan, conservative scholars like Gary Habermas and Craig Blomberg, less easily defined scholars like Geza Vermes and E.P. Sanders, and many others.

My main objection to Mel’s “Passion” was that it had so many historical inaccuracies, which Mel would have known about if he’d done the research. Roman soldiers speaking Latin in the provinces? (They spoke Greek.) Jesus carrying the entire cross? (He carried only the horizontal crossbeam.) Jesus being nailed through the hands? (It was the wrists.) And many more …

BTW, I’ve also read the Bible from cover to cover, as well as some of the Apocrypha and Gnostic writings. I’m not an academic, but I have a pretty decent layman’s knowledge of the subject. My opinion is that Jesus was a real historical figure, not a myth, and that accounts of his life can be trusted to a reasonable extent, though not totally. I think he had some valuable things to say and did experience mystical insights (and may even have performed some “miracles” of healing), but that like most mystics he was impractical and naive when it came to the exigencies of everyday life. “Turn the other cheek” and “resist not evil” aren’t practical advice (unless taken in the narrowly tactical way that Wright understands them). The proof is that people are always trying to “interpret” Jesus’ sayings in ways that would be more pragmatic, since the plain common-sense meaning of what he said clearly isn’t practical. The lilies of the field may not need to toil and spin, but human beings do.

Incidentally, Strobel is very tendentious and only interviews people whom he knows will reinforce his own beliefs. His books would be very different if he had interviewed more skeptical scholars.

The C.S. Lewis argument you quote is well known, but it assumes that Jesus really did say he was God, which is a matter of great debate among NT scholars. Jesus makes this claim explicitly only in John, usually regarded as the latest and least reliable of the four synoptic gospels. And it is impossible to know, at this late date, which words Jesus actually said and which were put into his mouth by well-meaning followers.

That said, I should add that I’m not an atheist and I do think that “the perennial philosophy” (the core of beliefs common to most religious traditions) is valid. I just don’t think that any one tradition holds a monopoly on truth. There is a lot of wisdom in the Judeo-Christian tradition, and I think it has been, overall, a force for good in the world. But there is also a lot of truth in the Bhagavad Gita, and in Buddhism, and in the nondualistic mystical traditions of East and West, etc. Why limit yourself to just one set of writings? If you had been born into a different culture, you would have adopted a different religion. Would that make you a bad person? Would you be destined for hell simply because of an accident of birth and geography? I don’t think God is that cruel … or that dumb.

sauropod on July 11, 2010 at 2:17 PM

I think his career is over. He’s gone so far over the line now that people will avoid his movies.

AnninCA on July 11, 2010

Funny, I thought I was people and I won’t avoid his movies. Guess I’m just a meat puppet.
I do hope he can beat his alcoholism, though. That is, I think, the source of his demons.

Extrafishy on July 11, 2010 at 4:14 PM

Oh, Mel. I’m so disappointed in you. Sadness…

Why do we censor n**ger but we crazy crackers don’t censor cracker?

eforhan on July 10, 2010 at 11:43 AM

Because crackers are so delicious. Mmmm, rice crackers with cream cheese … Ritz with peanut butter … water crackers with a creamy Brie…

Rosmerta on July 11, 2010 at 4:22 PM

Extrafishy on July 11, 2010 at 4:14 PM

wouldn’t you be a fish puppet?

OK, just humor me, I’m bored at work!

Rosmerta on July 11, 2010 at 4:23 PM

sauropod, I can see you’ve read a great deal on this subject. Have you ever read The Everlasting Man by G.K. Chesterton? I find this one of his finest works, a really thought-provoking argument for the exceptionalism of Christianity. It had a great influence in C.S. Lewis’s conversion.

I also cannot recommend too highly my personal favorite among Chesterton’s writings, Orthodoxy – the story of what finally convinced Chesterton himself of the truth of the Christian religion.

Best wishes to you!

Rosmerta on July 11, 2010 at 4:42 PM

Thanks, Rosmerta. I haven’t read Chesterton. I’ll take a look at both books. Also, thanks for supplying the links.

sauropod on July 11, 2010 at 5:14 PM

sauropod on July 11, 2010 at 2:17 PM

Please pardon me for assuming you’d not read on the topic. Your assertion of Jesus’ naivete (?) led me to that conclusion. But we know what they say about assuming…. :-)

You must be bright; you’re certainly well-read. Makes me wonder why you lump Christianity with all other religions. Yes, they share nuggets of truth: philanthropy is preferable to selfishess, etc. But there the similarities end. While other faith systems place the onus on us to work for salvation, only Christianity proclaims the work completed by God. That’s a huge difference that one must accept or reject when considering other faiths. Either you believe the responsibility is on us to become ‘good people’, or you believe we are hopeless to do so without God’s extreme, personal intervention. If you believe the former, you can be any number of religions. If you believe the latter, you can be a….Christian.

You operate under another false premise. Jesus did not come as an earthly, political, or military leader. He came as the Son of God (and yes, that is clearly proclaimed in the Gospels. The book of John, though it is the last, would be comparable to four-hour-old news in 2010. Not to mention the many OT texts that prophesy His Sonship.) Jesus did not come speaking Proverbs–practical advice for earthly living. He came proclaiming God’s Kingdom–what it is, how you can be assured you’re on the way there.

Grace_is_sufficient on July 11, 2010 at 7:55 PM

sauropod on July 11, 2010 at 5:14 PM

Oops, one more thing. The doctrine of election touches on the ‘accident of birth’ argument.

Very sticky doctrine, though. Not naive at all, believe me. Not for the faint of heart, either. But incredibly Bible-based.

Grace_is_sufficient on July 11, 2010 at 8:01 PM

Or… a conniving one attempting to extort an emotional one in pain.

John the Libertarian on July 11, 2010 at 1:23 AM

Which one is the rational one?

Here is an example of an irrational one:

“I am going to come and burn the f**king house down… but you will blow me first.”

rukiddingme on July 11, 2010 at 8:23 PM

Away for the weekend so I’m a little late here but I guess
South Park was once again right

MEL GIBSON IS CRAZY!!!

Son of Sam Kinison on July 11, 2010 at 11:43 PM

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/154469

Son of Sam Kinison on July 11, 2010 at 11:44 PM

“A good man does the right thing, even when no one else is looking.”

BruthaMan on July 10, 2010 at 1:30 PM

+ infinity and beyond.

rukiddingme on July 11, 2010 at 11:47 PM

Funny, I thought I was people and I won’t avoid his movies. Guess I’m just a meat puppet.
I do hope he can beat his alcoholism, though. That is, I think, the source of his demons.

Extrafishy on July 11, 2010 at 4:14 PM

Definitely, he’s obviously drinking again. Tom Cruise fell flat for awhile due to people’s attitudes about scientology. He still is a good draw, but not what was expected.

I think he’s finally weathered his own drama. Mel? I think he’s sunk his ship.

AnninCA on July 12, 2010 at 7:55 AM

A love child is more likely to be born of a married couple. Too often unmarrieds produce a lust child. Gibson obviously doesn’t love Grigorieva, & it seems unlikely that he ever did.

itsnotaboutme on July 9, 2010 at 8:46 PM

Some years ago, I read an interview with one of the former editors of Rampart magazine, which was a big counterculture magazine in the Sixties. The editor had grown up considerably since then.

Among other things, he pointed out that once the stigma against having illegitimate children went away, beginning in the late Sixties, the number of illegitimate children began increasing.

The stigma, although painful to individual youngsters (who certainly are not at fault), provided some protection for society. Today, about four out of every 10 babies — correct me if I’m wrong — are born out of wedlock. They are likely to grow up in poverty and on welfare as they are raised by their unmarried mothers, or their grandmothers, or foster parents.

However, a return of that stigma might lead more unmarried mothers to kill their babies by abortion, instead of encouraging them to save sex for marriage.

An excellent book about today’s acceptance of births out of wedlock is “Promises I Can Keep.” I can’t remember the authors’ names, but it has been highlighted in National Review and other publications.

KyMouse on July 12, 2010 at 9:12 AM

Nobody’s held accountable for anything anymore.

With girls wind up with guys like this, I wonder if they got the training they needed before they were old enough to date. My wife was taught by her parents that if a beau ever pushed or held any part of her in a painful manner, no matter how fleetingly, or ever dropped the f-bomb in her presence, she should dump him – fast and hard. For these are clues of far worse to come.

As a father of girls, I try to give my treasures the same instruction and I even take them out on dates in order to show them by practical example how they are to be treated (side benefit for me, they’re great fun to be with). I hope this gives them the skills needed to identify these dirtbags early on and repel boarders.

I hope.

As for Mel, nobody’s held accountable for anything anymore. Why would anyone be surprized if he weathers this?

Cricket624 on July 12, 2010 at 9:43 AM

Hollywood celebrities all suffer from mental disorders. Imagine earning a regular person’s lifetime salary by shooting one scene with a video camera. Thats how these people live, and the constant overflowing attention + wealth is too much for them to handle. An entrepreneur who is as wealthy as them as had to earn his/her wealth and has built up some humility and connection to reality through those experiences. Hollywood celebrities don’t have this experience. They were a pretty face who showed up at the right place at the right time. Practically lottery winners.

tflst5 on July 12, 2010 at 1:18 PM

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