Sudetenland: Are the Czechs Our Friends?

posted at 10:02 pm on July 7, 2010 by The Other McCain

This is the question history professor Thaddeus Russell would have had Britons ask each other in 1938, when Neville Chamberlain sold out the Czechs to Hitler at Munich.

Does Israel Make Us Safer?
. . . Though many Americans think of Islamic terrorism against the U.S. as part of an inevitable “clash of cultures,” not one American died at the hands of a politically motivated Arab or Muslim until June 5, 1968, when Robert F. Kennedy was shot to death by Sirhan Sirhan.

Russell then goes on to assert that anti-American sentiment in the Islamic world is entirely a consquence of U.S. policy. Change the policy — especially, end U.S. support for Israel — and everybody who hates us now will be our friends. There are two clear errors in this way of thinking:

  • It is never smart to allow your enemies to tell you who your allies should be.
  • Yielding to aggression tends to result in more aggression.

This is what Churchill understood, but Chamberlain did not. Chamberlain believed that Hitler was an ordinary politician who could be dealt with as if dealing with were any responsible leader. Churchill was never deceived about Hitler’s nature, repeatedly describing him as a “gangster” who could only be stopped by force. So when Hitler, having repudiated the Versailles Treaty, remilitarized the Rhineland and annexed Austria, then demanded that the Czechs surrender the Sudetenland, Churchill clearly saw that Hitler was preparing for further aggression (i.e., the invasion of Poland) while Chamberlain foolishly thought he could bargain for peace.

Israel is analogous to the Sudetenland here because no change in U.S. policy will appease Hamas, Hezbollah and other America-hating extremists in the Islamic world. Yes, the annihilation of Israel is a major goal of the jihadis, but it is not their only goal.

They are gangsters, as Churchill would say and, to borrow another of Sir Winston’s favorite expressions, those who hope t0 appease these gangsters are feeding the crocodile, hoping to be eaten last.

Russell advocates abandonment of Israel as an act of foreign-policy “realism,” but as Elder of Ziyon says, “This is not realism — this is surrender to an enemy that will be emboldened by a show of such weakness.”

(Cross-posted at The Other McCain.)

This post was promoted from GreenRoom to HotAir.com.
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Well written.

Unfortunately, we have our own gangster to deal with at the same time.

CPT. Charles on July 7, 2010 at 10:05 PM

“A faraway nation of which we know little”

RobCon on July 7, 2010 at 10:06 PM

forgetting the Barbary Pirates are we? not much of a history professor this guy

tflst5 on July 7, 2010 at 10:07 PM

To call Russell an idiot would be a disservice to idiots. They, at least, have some basic intelligence. Russell is only a ‘useful fool’.

GarandFan on July 7, 2010 at 10:08 PM

Russell advocates abandonment of Israel as an act of foreign-policy “realism,” but as Elder of Ziyon says, “This is not realism — this is surrender to an enemy that will be emboldened by a show of such weakness.”

Or in other words: “you’re stuck with us, Yankee. Drop us like a hot potato and the Arabs will just laugh.”

…and he’s totally right.

Dark-Star on July 7, 2010 at 10:08 PM

“not one American died at the hands of a politically motivated Arab or Muslim until June 5, 1968″

Ever hear of the Barbary pirates?
“…to the shores of Tripoli”

RobCon on July 7, 2010 at 10:09 PM

Excellent post. Let me sum up the hundred comments that will follow with a simple truism:

Quoth the article:

Russell then goes on to assert that anti-American sentiment in the Islamic world is entirely a consquence of U.S. policy.

Actually, anti-American sentiment in the Islamic world is entirely a consequeence of ISLAM.

The US SHED BLOOD for the Muslim world: for Kuwait, for Afghanistan, for Iraq, for Somalia, for Bosnia, for Kosovo…. sometimes fighting against Christians (serbia, croatia)

We pay billions to Egypt and Jordan not to fight Israel. We pay billions to Pakistan and Turkey for nothing in return.

We strong armed the Jews into giving up the entire Sinai peninsula, the west bank, gaza, and s lebanon (land they won through wars)

We have not interrupted Islamic Sudan’s massacre of black Christians, nor have we interfered directly with the theocrats in Iran

All of that and they STILL hate us — because the Koran says we are infidels.

That is all.

Case closed.

ISLAM – vis a vis the literal words of the Koran – is the problem

picklesgap on July 7, 2010 at 10:10 PM

“..not one American died at the hands of a politically motivated Arab or Muslim until June 5, 1968″

Barbary Wars in 1805 and World War II in North Africa.
Many Arabs were allied with the Germans.

RobCon on July 7, 2010 at 10:12 PM

“..not one American died at the hands of a politically motivated Arab or Muslim until June 5, 1968″

beyond tripoli and wwii, didn’t SOME us forces fight in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Eastern_theatre_of_World_War_I

picklesgap on July 7, 2010 at 10:14 PM

The Nazis and the German people they seduced began as the hunters and a few short years later, they were the hunted.
Think of destroyed Europe before considering the expedient sacrifice of a whole population again. Have we learned nothing from the last century?

RobCon on July 7, 2010 at 10:18 PM

Yet another history professor exposed as a ignorant fool.
College is a rip off. It is like a math professor saying 2+2= 6.9

RobCon on July 7, 2010 at 10:20 PM

Ouch. I made the mistake of wandering over to the comment section of that article.

The ignorance and anti-semitism is deep.

If I were a violent person I would advocate severe cranial hole-ectomies for those commenters.

exsanguine on July 7, 2010 at 10:26 PM

Russell then goes on to assert that anti-American sentiment in the Islamic world is entirely a consquence of U.S. policy. Change the policy — especially, end U.S. support for Israel — and everybody who hates us now will be our friends. There are two clear errors in this way of thinking:
===========================================================

Exactly,thats what the Liberal Progressive Socialists,and
Anti-War Moonbats would like their base,and the world for
that matter,to believe,and Team Hopey/Changey,the Smart P
ower Policy has also found out!!!

And Liberals are playing a very dangerous game with Terror
ists,not only for Israel and the United States Of America,
but the worlds security as well!!!!

canopfor on July 7, 2010 at 10:30 PM

Too many on this thread to quote…

+7%…! to you all for living in the real world.

Seven Percent Solution on July 7, 2010 at 10:32 PM

Another idiot professor with no commonsense.

Josiah on July 7, 2010 at 10:33 PM

Israel is analogous to the Sudetenland here because no change in U.S. policy will appease Hamas, Hezbollah and other America-hating extremists in the the Islamic world.

Yea…that’s about right…

jerrytbg on July 7, 2010 at 10:35 PM

Bibi Netenyahu gave an incredible speech years ago giving a detailed narrative of Hitler and the Sudetenland, showing the parallels with Israel. A transcript is floating around the internet and it’s a great read. Do a search.

tommyboy on July 7, 2010 at 10:39 PM

Unfortunately, we have our own gangster to deal with at the same time.
CPT. Charles on July 7, 2010 at 10:05 PM

beat me to it.

forgetting the Barbary Pirates are we? not much of a history professor this guy
tflst5 on July 7, 2010 at 10:07 PM

I have read several books about this. Our nation didn’t use to put up w/much bullsh*t.

arnold ziffel on July 7, 2010 at 10:45 PM

Too many on this thread to quote…

+7%…! to you all for living in the real world.

Seven Percent Solution on July 7, 2010 at 10:32 PM

Seven Percent Solution:)
================================================

Meanwhile back at Team Hopey’s Bunker,Obama is on an ongoing
discussion,lets listen in…….

Ah..BrokenAxleRod…I thought you ah…said..ah..um..that
the German..um Speech..ah was going to be…a enlightening
experience..ah..um.and the world was going to see..ah..um
a kinder..gentler,and less….um..ah…Bushified,ah..um…
transparent America…. ….ah….,

and ah..um….that ah…throwing ah..um…Israel under da
..um..bus..and useing a dialogue…ah with..logic..and..um
reasoning,that the..um..um..terrorits would ah come..um..a
round,ah..um….,

and,ah..now your ah..ah..um..tell’n me,that it a doesn’t
ah..um..matter if ah…Israel or ah the US…ever existed
ah..that…the Persians..um..want..ah..the..entire planet

and..ah..um..and thats their ah Ultimate Goal,ah um..and
for the ah life of me…I.I..can’t understand,ah why I was
ah..um..never…taugt this,and ah…um…..(snark).

canopfor on July 7, 2010 at 10:51 PM

The announced goal of The Muslim Brotherhood is to first kill all of the Saturday worshipers and next to kill all of the Sunday worshipers. Only submission to Allah and his profit Mohammed as is chanted five times daily at Mosques all over thw world for 1400 years will make the muslims like us.

jimw on July 7, 2010 at 10:54 PM

jimw,

but… but we’re a muslim nation…the “0″ told us.
all hail the ori…/

jerrytbg on July 7, 2010 at 11:06 PM

I’m pretty sure there were Americans killed in the Hadassah Hospital Convoy killings in 1948 and in the riots in the British Mandate that predate 1968.

Then again, they were JOOOOOSSSS so this idjit probably thinks they had it coming.

mjk on July 7, 2010 at 11:15 PM

I don’t know who Prof Russell is, but he is either not a prof of history, or should be fired if he is. Cuz he apparently is not familiar with the Islamic Barbary Pirates who justified their actions to terrorize and enslave Dhimmis with the exact same language as used today by Bin Laden and Islamo-fascist cohorts.

Is he per chance just another prof who assumes that any academic pedigree entitles him to speak on any issue of what he knows nothing? It reminds me of Colorado Prof Ward Churchill who portrays himself as some highly informed intellectual on politics and world history, because he has a Phd in saxafone. Its bloody ludicris to continue to let these morons in academia use degrees in anything, given like minded no-nothings any credibilty on issues which they are clearly no more qualified to speak than the local dog-catcher.

My apologies to dog-catchers, you actully serve a useful purpose.

Archimedes on July 7, 2010 at 11:15 PM

[I]f you yield to a threat, you do so in order to avoid war, and more often than not, you do not avoid war. For those before whom you have thus openly demeaned yourself by yielding, will not stop there, but will seek to extort further concessions, and the less they esteem you the more incensed will they become against you. On the other hand, you will find your supporters growing cooler towards you, since they will look upon you as weak or pusillanimous. But if, as soon as you become aware of your adversary’s intentions, you prepare to use force, even though your forces be inferior to his, he will begin to respect you, and, since those with which you were allied will now esteem you, they will be ready to help when you begin to arm, which they would never have done had you given up.
–Niccolo Machiavelli, Discourses Book II, Chapter 14.

Strong and simple, your enemies never misunderstand, save the deceit for what they don’t see.

Speakup on July 7, 2010 at 11:19 PM

From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli…

jerrytbg on July 7, 2010 at 11:22 PM

The essence of Islam is to be the One World Religion by friendly or unfriendly persuasion. It now has the ability to project it’s aims and power throughout the rest of the world. Israel is a particularly close and hated enemy but Islam is developing in large enclaves around the world. Their religion approves of them lying to us, so trusting any practising Muslim is a tricky business that could easily become tragic for a person or a nation.
Randy

williars on July 7, 2010 at 11:24 PM

Waiting for the Paulbots to come out and declare we shouldn’t be supporting Israel in 3..2..1..

Conservative Samizdat on July 7, 2010 at 11:25 PM

is that all islamo-nazi oil money can buy you these days ? how hard does he think it is to google “Ottoman Empire” and “WWI” ?

runner on July 7, 2010 at 11:28 PM

If I were a violent person I would advocate severe cranial hole-ectomies for those commenters.

exsanguine on July 7, 2010 at 10:26 PM

You mean like a cranial colostomy?
after all their brains are full of s…….

Bobnormal on July 7, 2010 at 11:34 PM

Waiting for the Paulbots to come out and declare we shouldn’t be supporting Israel in 3..2..1..

Conservative Samizdat on July 7, 2010 at 11:25 PM

But they aren’t anti-semites or anything (roll eyes).

Hard Right on July 7, 2010 at 11:35 PM

But they aren’t anti-semites or anything (roll eyes).

Hard Right on July 7, 2010 at 11:35 PM

All the logic of the libtards who cry ‘RACIST’ whenever someone speaks up against robbing whitey to pay for more welfare.

Just how long do you think you can win arguments by whipping out the ‘Jew card’ when people are getting tired of the ‘race card’? Do you really think you’re immune to the same symptoms?

Dark-Star on July 7, 2010 at 11:45 PM

Problem with the whole “Surrender Israel” thingy..?

They think Israel is the “little Satan” and the U.S. is the “GREAT SATAN”.

So if you throw Israel to the Islamic wolves prepare for the same wolfpack to be eating you next.

****not to mention Israel would NUKE every single nation around it if they were threatened by another Masada situation.

PappyD61 on July 8, 2010 at 12:03 AM

About the author:

“Thaddeus Russell is the author of the forthcoming A Renegade History of the United States (Free Press/Simon & Schuster, 2010). He teaches history and cultural studies at Occidental College and has taught at Columbia University, Barnard College, Eugene Lang College, and the New School for Social Research.”

From the bottom of Occidental College’s brief history page. See if you can spot the relevant entry:

Oct. 12, 2003: The Hameetman Science Center is dedicated.

Dec. 4, 2004: Occidental’s football team reaches the NCAA Division III Western Regional Final, falling to eventual national champion Linfield.

April 28, 2005: The Occidental College Debate Union wins the first annual Los Angeles Public Debate Championship.

July 1, 2006: Susan Prager is named as the 13th President of Occidental. She is Occidental’s first female president.

March 15, 2007: Twins Jonathan and Robert Dohring ’08 of finish first and second in the NCAA Division III 1-meter diving competition.

June 2008: Ten Oxy students win Fulbrights, setting a new College record.

Nov. 4, 2008: Barack Obama ’83 elected as the first African-American president of the United States.

January 2009: Occidental receives 6,013 applications for admission, the largest number in College history.

July 1, 2009: Jonathan Veitch takes office as Occidental’s new president.

March 13, 2010: Women’s lacrosse wins its first game in its inaugural season as an intercollegiate sport at Occidental.

Shy Guy on July 8, 2010 at 12:10 AM

Just how long do you think you can win arguments by whipping out the ‘Jew card’ when people are getting tired of the ‘race card’? Do you really think you’re immune to the same symptoms?

Dark-Star on July 7, 2010 at 11:45 PM

Didn’t anyone tell you, it’s not identity politics when the right victim group does it.

abobo on July 8, 2010 at 12:30 AM

Show me the money

Somebody tell me how we afford to keep the far east employed making all the ugly junk we keep buying, while spending millions on benefits for people who don’t pay taxes and fighting interminable, capital intensive wars with tons of boots on the ground and very kindly ROEs?

I guess my idea of buying the northern 10% of Mexico then colecting 20 Trillion from the Arabs then moving the Jews to our neighborhood and pocketing the profits is not catching on.

W didn’t like the idea of a nuke on Osama’s most likely location followed by a declaration of victory. Oh well….

IlikedAUH2O on July 8, 2010 at 12:51 AM

not one American died at the hands of a politically motivated Arab or Muslim until June 5, 1968,

Two words “Barbary Coast”

Gwillie on July 8, 2010 at 1:29 AM

And for good measure I’ll add a few more words, “World War One” and “World War Two” Although I am not sure Arabs killed Americans in WW1, (did we join the Brits in Turkey?)

Gwillie on July 8, 2010 at 1:33 AM

Well said.

Mr. Joe on July 8, 2010 at 1:37 AM

not one American died at the hands of a politically motivated Arab or Muslim until June 5, 1968,

Two words “Barbary Coast”

Gwillie on July 8, 2010 at 1:29 AM

I was thinking the same thing.

…to the shores of Tripoli…

Muslims have been doing EXACTLY the same thing for the last 1000 plus years. They will keep on doing the EXACTLY the same thing until the Koran is changed; which will be never.

Mojave Mark on July 8, 2010 at 1:46 AM

Apparently historian Russell knows nothing about history, that is pre-WWII history. Russell is probably nothing more than another anti-semetic.

docdave on July 8, 2010 at 1:59 AM

Allied support was necessary to Czechoslovakia’s survival, thus could only restrain Nazi Germany. US support is not necessary to Israel’s survival but has the effect of reassuring and restraining Israel as well as deterring her enemies. If Israel were abandoned and resorted to considering the nuclear option her enemies would demand that America side with them since they could not destroy Israel on their own and hope to survive. If America refused they would enlist Russia or China. There is no way the US could avoid entanglement or blackmail in an even more brutal ME.

Seth Halpern on July 8, 2010 at 2:00 AM

This professor Russell is what is known as an educated idiot.

He knows nothing of Islam, it’s long history of bloody conflict with anyone not of the Muslim faith, nor of basic Muslim doctrine.

Dar al-Islam (house of Islam/peace) and Dar al-Harb (house of war) is how the world is divided up by Muslims. If you are not a Muslim, or a Dhimmi (conquered people) then you are considered to be at war with Islam (Dar al-Harb).

Nigeria, Kenya, Sudan, India, The Balkans, Paris, Malmo, Chechnya, Central Asia, the Kra Peninsula, the Phillipines. The borders of the Islamic world are violent, like the front lines of a war. This is exactly what Muslim doctrine and the Koran call for.

This idiot needs to actually read the Koran. Would have been nice if Bush had done the same. He wouldn’t have started spouting nonsense about the ‘Religion of Peace’.

Israel acts as a proxy for the west with regards to Islam… sorta like a canary in a coal mine, and to be honest it isn’t looking good.

The Muslims didn’t stop when they took Christian Egypt, Zoroastrian Persia, Hindu Pakistan, Christian Syria, or Christian North Africa. They were only stopped by violence… those evil Crusaders.

Nor will they stop if, or when they take Jewish Israel.

sharrukin on July 8, 2010 at 2:11 AM

this analysis is very pertinent and the analogy with pre-WW2 Germany and the European way of ‘dealing’ with Hitler – is apt. I always thought of Obama as of a bird of a feather with Chamberlain, both unapologetic appeasers, both not having a clue or a minimum understanading at least of Realpolitik on the international stage, both slaves to Idealpolitik (on the domestic as well as intl/external affairs front) and both got everything monumentally wrong…is this a case of ‘deja vu all over again’?… less than a century later???….methinks yes, only there’s way more volatility in the world these days than it was in the 40s in Europe, too mnay rogue states, rogue entities, fanatic factions and organizations, crazies in different shapes and colour, religious or otherwise…and ‘our’ guy just doesn’t get it! :-(

jimver on July 8, 2010 at 2:49 AM

Just how long do you think you can win arguments by whipping out the ‘Jew card’ when people are getting tired of the ‘race card’? Do you really think you’re immune to the same symptoms?

Dark-Star on July 7, 2010 at 11:45 PM

Which is exactly why I posed the question as, “Are the Czechs our friends?” Neville Chamberlain once dismissed the Czechs as “a little nation of which we know little,” which is to say, they were so insignificant as to be unworthy of British support. Perhaps true, but this was immaterial to the crisis that Britain — and the world — faced in 1938.

What mattered was not the value of the Czechs to the British, but the danger of another cession to Hitler’s demands. And to pose the question, as Russell does, of whether the U.S. benefits by its alliance with Israel is to make the same basic mistake vis-a-vis our enemies in the Islamic world. Were we to abandon Israel — a nation militarily superior to any of its potential enemies — in order to appease Islamic sentiment, we would be advertising our weakness.

One need not love Jews nor hate Arabs to see this reality. Especially since the Yom Kippur War and the Arab oil boycott of 1973, there have been those who say we should abandon our alliance with Israel for reasons of realpolitik. But yielding to bullies is not wise policy and therefore, in arguing about the Middle East, it is not necessary to play “the Jew card,” as you say, by accusing all Israel’s critics of anti-Semitism. To do that is to make U.S. policy dependent upon mere sentiment — is American opinion pro-Jew or anti-Jew or indifferent to Jews?

To understand why such an attitude is wrong, consider Vietnam. Were we supporting South Vietnam because the American people had any especial love for the South Vietnamese people? Certainly not. In 1960, how many Americans could have even found Vietnam on a map? Rather, we supported the South Vietnamese because they were fighting communist aggression. And our support for Israel can be justified on similar grounds: The terrorist menace that threatens Israel is the same menace that threatens U.S. interests worldwide.

The Other McCain on July 8, 2010 at 3:00 AM

This is how Chamberlain finished the statement that he read in front of 10 Downing St. on 30 September, 1938 after the Munich Conference had ended the day before:

My good friends, for the second time in our history, a British Prime Minister has returned from Germany bringing peace with honour.I believe it is peace for our time…
Go home and get a nice quiet sleep.”

ha!

the speech was actually entitled: ‘Peace for Our Time’…how ironic is that, well, in hindsight at least… That’s the variety of ‘peace’ Comrade O is going to achieve if he throws Israel under the bus…

jimver on July 8, 2010 at 4:46 AM

Problem with the whole “Surrender Israel” thingy..?

They think Israel is the “little Satan” and the U.S. is the “GREAT SATAN”.
PappyD61 on July 8, 2010 at 12:03 AM

exactamente!

jimver on July 8, 2010 at 4:49 AM

not one American died at the hands of a politically motivated Arab or Muslim until June 5, 1968

Even if this were true, how on earth does he manage to ignore the vast scope of Islamic violence in history, starting with big Mo himself?

I wonder if it’s sort of freeing in a way to be this ignorant.

TexasDan on July 8, 2010 at 7:17 AM

YES WE CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why can’t we surrender Israel?

We are surrendering Arizona!

IlikedAUH2O on July 8, 2010 at 8:02 AM

Russell apparently has no respect for other cultures. He thinks that Muslims are some sort of primitive people, reacting with blind rage to American involvment? That’s laughable. Islam is against Western culture. Short summer dresses, pork BBQ, rude cartoons, the freedom to get any haircut you want – they hate these things as much as they hate America or Israel.

We need to stop being so egotistical that we think every other group’s policy is based entirely on fear or love of us.

hawksruleva on July 8, 2010 at 8:37 AM

…The terrorist menace that threatens Israel is the same menace that threatens U.S. interests worldwide.

The Other McCain on July 8, 2010 at 3:00 AM

MOT!
The Obamanation’s blatant disrespect toward our mid-east ally has ignited significant political blowback here at home, as well as in Israel. Hence the Admin’s backpeddling during the Netanyahu visit this week – it’s his usual goofy pattern! Unfortunately his fatuousness has emboldened the Islamist enemy — Israel is attacked and under increasing threat, meanwhile the idiot-in-chief is pretending to put the Jinn back in the bottle! By design or by just plain dumb, these clowns are sowing the seeds for menace and misery at home and world-wide!

“Let’s Roll”

On Watch on July 8, 2010 at 9:35 AM

In his 2002 Letter to America, Obama bin Laden laid quite plainly why Al Qaeda attacked the US and what we needed to do in order to stop the attacks. Although Israel is rather prominent in his reasons for attacking, he also lists Chechnya(Russians), Kashmir(India) and Somalia(WTF?). More telling is his list of demands, which I have summarized below:

1. Convert to Islam
2. Submit to Sharia
3. Reevaluate your life
4. Stop supporting Israel, Russia, India and the Philippines
5. Leave our lands
6. Stop supporting corrupt Muslim couintries
7. Treat us as equals

Anyone who thinks that abandoning Israel will stop violent Jihadists from hating us is fooling themselves.

BohicaTwentyTwo on July 8, 2010 at 10:22 AM

This is what Churchill understood, but Chamberlain did not. Chamberlain believed that Hitler was an ordinary politician who could be dealt with as if dealing with were any responsible leader. Churchill was never deceived about Hitler’s nature, repeatedly describing him as a “gangster” who could only be stopped by force.

So who is our Churchill, when Chamberlain is in the White House, and Adolf Ahmanutjob builds his nukes in Iran?

One consolation: Bibi Netanyahu is better armed than the Sudetenland of 1938.

Steve Z on July 8, 2010 at 10:56 AM

to borrow another of Sir Winston’s favorite expressions, those who hope t0 appease these gangsters are feeding the crocodile, hoping to be eaten last.

And at this point, that’s putting it mildly.

The link concludes with the reference to our casualties from the Barbary Wars.

Historically, “to the shores of Tripoli” resounding in the Marine Anthem echos the Barbary Pirate attacks requiring our sailors to wear literal leather necks in battle. In his Libyan speech campaigning for Obama, even Libya’s Arab Muslim Gadaffi distanced himself and his nation from its indigenous Berber tribal identity, as if possible.

The United States’ stormy history with Libya got off to a violent beginning during the Barbary Wars. While America was a British colony, American ships were protected by the British navy, but when the United States won its independence, it lost British protection, and American merchant ships fell prey to the Barbary pirates along the coast of North Africa under the control of Yusuf ibn Ali Karamanli. The pirates captured the ships and enslaved their American sailors. In 1803, US President Thomas Jefferson sent the Sixth Fleet to blockade the harbor of Tripoli. Unfortunately, the USS Philadelphia ran aground. Its 308 sailors were forced to surrender and they were held hostage for 19 months until the US finally agreed to pay off Yusuf. [Huge segment missing regarding the American defeat of Yusuf after our victory at the Battle of Derna.] These engagements eventually were immortalized in the Marine Corps hymn: “From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli.”

Outlandish omission.

But the modern official stance to not reward terrorists with ransom demands isn’t how things went under Jefferson, even after beating Yusuf.

In agreeing to pay a ransom of sixty thousand dollars for the American prisoners, the Jefferson administration drew a distinction between paying tribute and paying ransom. At the time, some argued that buying sailors out of slavery was a fair exchange to end the war. William Eaton, however, remained bitter for the rest of his life about the treaty, feeling that his efforts had been squandered by the State Department diplomat Tobias Lear. Eaton and others felt that the capture of Derne should have been used as a bargaining chip to obtain the release of all American prisoners without having to pay ransom. Furthermore, Eaton believed the honor of the United States had been compromised when it abandoned Hamet Karamanli after promising to restore him as leader of Tripoli. Eaton’s complaints generally fell on deaf ears, especially as attention turned to the strained international relations which would ultimately lead to the War of 1812.

Interesting to remember, since the past is what it’s all about in the Middle East.

maverick muse on July 8, 2010 at 12:32 PM

So who is our Churchill, when Chamberlain is in the White House, and Adolf Ahmanutjob builds his nukes in Iran?

One consolation: Bibi Netanyahu is better armed than the Sudetenland of 1938.

Steve Z on July 8, 2010 at 10:56 AM

You should hear what Michael Savage has to say about this.

maverick muse on July 8, 2010 at 12:33 PM

“..not one American died at the hands of a politically motivated Arab or Muslim until June 5, 1968″

We are only even here today in large part due to the strong walls and superior technology of the people of Constantinople. Which, what do you know was militarily conquered by Muslims

Resolute on July 8, 2010 at 12:38 PM

BohicaTwentyTwo on July 8, 2010 at 10:22 AM

Exactly. As if shedding Israel would purge America from being Islam’s Great Satan. Better to stand united than divided against the blood thirsty Muslim theocracies.

As John Lennon put it to such-ism, all we are saying is give peace a chance.

Ev’rybody’s talkin’ ’bout
Bagism, Shagism, Dragism, Madism, Ragism, Tagism
This-ism, that-ism, ism ism ism

Ev’rybody’s talkin’ ’bout
Minister, Sinister, Banisters and Canisters, Bishops, [Calliphates, Ummah-Mufti-Mullahs], Rabbis, and Pop Eyes[]

Ev’rybody’s talkin’ ’bout
Revolution, Evolution, Masturbation, Flagellation, Regulation,
Integrations, mediations, United Nations, congratulations

maverick muse on July 8, 2010 at 12:49 PM

BohicaTwentyTwo on July 8, 2010 at 10:22 AM

Exactly. As if shedding Israel would purge America from being Islam’s Great Satan. Better to stand united than divided against the blood thirsty Muslim theocracies.

maverick muse on July 8, 2010 at 12:51 PM

John Lennon links detour?

maverick muse on July 8, 2010 at 12:53 PM

Neville Chamberlain once dismissed the Czechs as “a little nation of which we know little,” which is to say, they were so insignificant as to be unworthy of British support.

Typical of Empirical British opinions.

maverick muse on July 8, 2010 at 12:55 PM

Ran into a good article at Sultan Knish that mentions this.

1958…

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=UAIqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=miYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7257,2681044&dq=beirut+bomb&hl=en

A Beirut cafe filled with US soldiers was bombed. So was a bus outside the Capital Hotel, which was filled with Americans. The ABC Department Store, a five story building frequented by Americans was hit by a suicide truck bomber. The same building also housed the local offices of the Singer Sewing Machine company. A bomb went off 30 yards away from the car of the US ambassador. A US Sergeant was shot and killed by a sniper. But of course we’ve already forgotten the Marines storming Red Beach on 24 hours notice. But the terrorism still went on. The US embassy was bombed in 1967 and bombed again in 1969. And all this is only a snapshot of Arab Muslim terrorist attacks against the US in a single city, in one country.

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2010/07/why-do-muslims-murder-americans.html

sharrukin on July 8, 2010 at 1:49 PM

It is very frustrating to me to keep seeing this misunderstanding from westerners about what it’s really like in the Middle East. The customs are different. The written and unwritten laws/rules are different. The expectations are different.

When people in Israel say “give them a finger, and they’ll take the whole hand”, or that compromise is seen as weakness and that Arabs only respect force, it’s REALLY not a rhetorical argument or some crazy misconception… it’s the truth.

The only admission we get from people on this subject is when they proclaim the very vague statement that Israel lives in “a tough neighbourhood”. WTF does that mean? Well, that’s what it means.

AlexB on July 8, 2010 at 2:15 PM

Those Nazis were terrible… annexing land from their neighbors, policies based on race, occupation of land.

lexhamfox on July 8, 2010 at 6:59 PM

Those Nazis were terrible… annexing land from their neighbors, policies based on race, occupation of land.

lexhamfox on July 8, 2010 at 6:59 PM

None of us like what the Muslims are doing to the people of southern Sudan, or the Copts of Egypt. What is it now 1,900,000 killed by the Janjaweed and another 4,000,000 forced to flee? That doesn’t include those forced into slavery either. Millions dead! Terrible isn’t it lexhamfox?

That is what you meant… right?

sharrukin on July 8, 2010 at 7:18 PM

Bibi Netanyahu is better armed than the Sudetenland of 1938.

Steve Z on July 8, 2010 at 10:56 AM

no doubt about that, but keep in mind that the Israelis depend in a high percentage on the US for supplying and re-supplying them with parts, then sure a lot of their military technology comes from the US, so if Comrade decides to shut down the ‘supply line’, Israel can be in trouble. well, yeah, probably they will manage somehow even on their own, coz they are resourceful and creative, besides there’s always Russia and their black market for military technology, as well as their official arms export channels which israel is using anyways :-)

jimver on July 8, 2010 at 7:34 PM