How did four Supreme Court justices wind up arguing against the Constitution?

posted at 3:35 pm on July 1, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

Maybe we should avoid revisiting the McDonald decision too often, in order to avoid looking a gift horse in the mouth.  The Supreme Court has made an individual right to gun ownership settled law, more than 220 years after the founders mistakenly believed they had settled the issue.  Reason’s Jacob Sullum isn’t satisfied with the conclusion, however, after watching four Supreme Court justices argue against the Constitution and individual rights in general:

In their dissenting opinions, Justices John Paul Stevens and Stephen Breyer (joined by Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sonia Sotomayor) worry that overturning gun control laws undermines democracy. If “the people” want to ban handguns, they say, “the people” should be allowed to implement that desire through their elected representatives.

What if the people want to ban books that offend them, establish an official church, or authorize police to conduct warrantless searches at will? Those options are also foreclosed by constitutional provisions that apply to the states by way of the 14th Amendment. The crucial difference between a pure democracy and a constitutional democracy like ours is that sometimes the majority does not decide. …

Another reason to doubt the dissenters’ sincerity: They would never accept federalism as a rationale for letting states “experiment” with freedom of speech, freedom of religion, or due process protections. Much of their job, as they themselves see it, involves overriding “local preferences” that give short shrift to constitutional rights.

Second Amendment rights are different, Breyer says, because “determining the constitutionality of a particular state gun law requires finding answers to complex empirically based questions.” So does weighing the claims in favor of banning child pornography or depictions of animal cruelty, relaxing the Miranda rule, admitting illegally obtained evidence, or allowing warrantless pat-downs, dog sniffs, or infrared surveillance.

When they decide whether a law or practice violates a constitutional right, courts cannot avoid empirical questions. In cases involving racial discrimination or content-based speech restrictions, for example, they ask whether the challenged law is “narrowly tailored to serve a compelling state interest” and is the “least restrictive means” of doing so.

Sullum notes that Stevens argued that firearms have a “fundamentally ambivalent relationship to liberty,” which is amazing from a jurist supposedly working within the Constitution.  The document itself recognizes that a free people have the right to self-defense by owning firearms, an explicit rejection of any such ambivalence.  In fact, they found the connection between gun ownership and liberty so unproblematic that they guaranteed the right of the people to keep and bear arms in the second explicit statement of uninfringeable individual liberties in the Constitution.

If the issue is that the right to gun ownership can be abused, well, so can all of the other rights.  Part of the reason why gun owners need to keep their own weapons is precisely because gun ownership can be abused.  While the Left side of the Court extols the ability of states to act as laboratories for social and legal innovation, they ignore the fact that the “experiments” in gun bans have proven without exception to be failures.  Banning handguns and other firearms in Chicago didn’t keep guns out of the city; the laws just ensured that law-abiding citizens would be disarmed and at the mercy of those who would abuse gun ownership for criminal enterprises.   Those hardest hit are citizens in urban areas, who are more likely to be poor and members of minorities, as well, who cannot rely on police to act as personal bodyguards at all times.

The decision reveals a fundamental antipathy on the part of liberal jurists to the clear language of the Constitution.  While we celebrate the fact that five Justices got it right, we should be very worried that the other four still would rather search for penumbras and emanations for their own idea of social engineering than in actually reading the clear text of the document they swore to uphold.

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Comment pages: 1 2

because its about the ideology not the jurisprudence.

rob verdi on July 1, 2010 at 3:38 PM

Sullum notes that Stevens argued that firearms have a “fundamentally ambivalent relationship to liberty,” which is amazing from a jurist supposedly working within the Constitution.

And right before the Constitution was written, didn’t the people, um, use firearms to re-assert their liberties against a government that was clamping down on their rights?

rbj on July 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM

Ed, this has been going on for more than 50 years. The Constitution, functioning as such, is a dead letter. Time to start over.

james23 on July 1, 2010 at 3:41 PM

Did anybody ask Kagan how she would have voted and why or is that “inappropriate” for whatever reason?

Joe Caps on July 1, 2010 at 3:41 PM

The whole point of the constitution is to protect inalienable rights, and to protect the minorty against the majority taking those rights away!

Mao was right, “Power comes at the end of a gun.” What makes the US unique is that Obama is not already a dictator because American citizens have guns.

PastorJon on July 1, 2010 at 3:41 PM

Constitution? What Constitution? We have one of those?

BobMbx on July 1, 2010 at 3:42 PM

How did four Supreme Court justices wind up arguing against the Constitution?

It’s the right thing to do.

BobMbx on July 1, 2010 at 3:42 PM

And right before the Constitution was written, didn’t the people, um, use firearms to re-assert their liberties against a government that was clamping down on their rights?

rbj on July 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM

Let’s see. Lexington and Concord.

Now what was it the British were going to confiscate there…

Wethal on July 1, 2010 at 3:43 PM

As rob verdi put it, the 4 liberal justices are acting exactly as their ideology would tell them. This is what they mean by a “living Constitution”: you read anything in or out of it according to your own personal philosophical fantasy.

jwolf on July 1, 2010 at 3:43 PM

How did four Supreme Court justices wind up arguing against the Constitution?

No empathy for the Constitution?

Wethal on July 1, 2010 at 3:43 PM

They have an opinion, then they find “facts” to support their opinion.
It’s that simple.
A shoplifter steals, when caught they justify by saying the store has so much they would never miss it.
The jurists are essentially saying we have so many rights, that removing this one right, in this one instance, doesn’t matter in the scheme of things, since we have so much.
That is what ideologues do, they take action, then justify them in whatever way they can…usually we grow out of this, but not liberals.

right2bright on July 1, 2010 at 3:43 PM

God help us.

Wait, can I say that?

BacaDog on July 1, 2010 at 3:44 PM

How did four Supreme Court justices wind up arguing against the Constitution

How did four lawyers who are against the Constitution wind up as Supreme Court justices ?

macncheez on July 1, 2010 at 3:45 PM

I thought Justice Breyer’s argument was particulary irritating. To wit, the ruling will now require courts to determine what limits the government can place on the Second Amendment. Horrors! Shocking!

It’s called self-government. Y’now, drawing limits, making distinctions. They’re not handed down to us by Platonic Guardians. We mortal humans get together and make them.

SteveMG on July 1, 2010 at 3:45 PM

The Left knows that the Second Amendment is the guarantor of all other rights. Once they get the guns there is no stopping them. They will use any sort of twisted logic and hypocrisy to justify taking the guns away from law-abiding citizens.

rockmom on July 1, 2010 at 3:45 PM

Makes me glad I live in that state where people still cling bitterly to their guns and religion — the place where the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were signed.

rockmom on July 1, 2010 at 3:47 PM

Well, at least we have the constitutional scholar Kagan getting ready to be confirmed. Maybe she’ll finally knock some sense into those liberal justices and explain the constitution to them in words they can understand.

It should be a breath of fresh air.

Naw, not really. Just daydreaming.

ButterflyDragon on July 1, 2010 at 3:48 PM

Constitution? What Constitution? We have one of those?

BobMbx on July 1, 2010 at 3:42 PM

Pretty much.

tetriskid on July 1, 2010 at 3:49 PM

If “the people” want to ban handguns, they say, “the people” should be allowed to implement that desire through their elected representatives.

Someone should tell the justices this logic applies to all Rights. So, if the people want to ban abortion would it be constitutional?

Holger on July 1, 2010 at 3:50 PM

How did four Supreme Court justices wind up arguing against the Constitution

Because the bar was lowered to allow them in.

publiuspen on July 1, 2010 at 3:51 PM

If “the people” want to ban handguns, they say, “the people” should be allowed to implement that desire through their elected representatives.

The “People” don’t want gay marriage. So everybody remember their argument about “what the people want” when it comes before the supreme court.

portlandon on July 1, 2010 at 3:52 PM

Nominating Justices who are known to be ideologically opposed to upholding the Constitution should be an impeachable offense.

petefrt on July 1, 2010 at 3:54 PM

Our country is hanging by a thread. The McDonald decision made that perfectly clear.

Kagan should NOT BE CONFIRMED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

Why would we want another anti-Constitution justice.

tarpon on July 1, 2010 at 3:54 PM

I have an idea! Why don’t we ask Supreme Court nominees during confirmation hearings if they fully support the Bill of Rights, as written? That way, we can get the easy “NAY” votes out of the way immediately.
.
Republicans have a chance to test my idea, empirically, this week. Go for it, Republicans (and a maybe a few smart Democrats).

ExpressoBold on July 1, 2010 at 3:54 PM

I just remember how several “conservative” commentators (you know who) kept saying that Sotomayor was reasonable and the best possible SOTUS candidate we could expect; and that Republicans should vote to confirm her.

I see some pushing the same meme for Kagan.

Epic Fail.

Norwegian on July 1, 2010 at 3:55 PM

Note Sotomayor’s weasely Senate confirmation testimony:

“I understand the individual right fully that the Supreme Court recognized in Heller.” And, “I understand how important the right to bear arms is to many, many Americans.”

In other words, “sure I get that Heller decided there is a private right to bear arms, and I get that many Americans feel strongly about the Second Amendment, but I don’t give a rats arse.

Firefly_76 on July 1, 2010 at 3:55 PM

Every now and then, a bloke who’s had a few drinks says hey, let’s just invoke a constitutional convention.

And all the centrists and moderates gnash the teeth and get the vapors and say “whaaaaaa! things would get out of control! it’d be a stinking free for all! whaaaa!”

Okay, and what we have now is somehow preferable to a free for all?

How would that be?

jeff_from_mpls on July 1, 2010 at 3:55 PM

I can easily see an Obama-packed SCOTUS concluding that the right to keep and bear arms does not include the right to keep and bear ammunition…or some other backdoor attack. The McDonald decision changes nothing in the minds of leftist radicals. One way or another the Second Amendment will be expunged. This will not end peacefully.

Extrafishy on July 1, 2010 at 3:57 PM

Best at this point, IMHO, not even to accept a fundamentally flawed agenda by talking about whether “experiments” work. If they did “work”, so what? We should reject all discussion of experimentation, even though Cap’n Ed can obviously handle it deftly.

JPlunket on July 1, 2010 at 3:57 PM

Okay, and what we have now is somehow preferable to a free for all?

How would that be?

jeff_from_mpls on July 1, 2010 at 3:55 PM

What we got now is a Free For All. The Constitution has been rendered meaningless. The only rule is achieve your Goal.

Holger on July 1, 2010 at 3:58 PM

“How did four Supreme Court justices wind up arguing against the Constitution?”

Because they never read it…

Seven Percent Solution on July 1, 2010 at 3:59 PM

What we got now is a Free For All. The Constitution has been rendered meaningless. The only rule is achieve your Goal.

Holger on July 1, 2010 at 3:58 PM

That’s my opinion.

There would be a lot to lose in a constitutional convention.

But imagine what could be gained…

The status quo is untenable.

jeff_from_mpls on July 1, 2010 at 4:00 PM

And right before the Constitution was written, didn’t the people, um, use firearms to re-assert their liberties against a government that was clamping down on their rights?

rbj on July 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM

Let’s see. Lexington and Concord.

Now what was it the British were going to confiscate there…

Wethal on July 1, 2010 at 3:43 PM

Exactly!

pugwriter on July 1, 2010 at 4:01 PM

anyone notice the GOP Senators(Coburn, Grassley) asking Kagan where Rights come from?

Charles Johnson is flipping out in his usual, emotional and irrational ways over the questioning.

jp on July 1, 2010 at 4:01 PM

How did four Supreme Court justices wind up arguing against the Constitution.

Because the GOP (or at least enough of them) think it’s not “collegial” to oppose someone who’s “qualified” but a radical. Thet as long as the person is qualified, the president should have his pick. See Hatch and Graham, for example, on Judiciary.

Even though the Dems don’t mind opposing someone who’s eminently qualified but too conservative for them. See Alito. Or Miguel Estrada.

The GOP is not the “Stupid Party” for nothing.

Wethal on July 1, 2010 at 4:02 PM

jp on July 1, 2010 at 4:01 PM

I ain’t going to give chuckles the traffic, what is he saying?

Let me guess, railing at Theocrats?

Holger on July 1, 2010 at 4:02 PM

anyone notice the GOP Senators(Coburn, Grassley) asking Kagan where Rights come from?

I suppose she didn’t say, “that they are “endowed by the Creator.”

Wethal on July 1, 2010 at 4:03 PM

These 4 Justices are my heroes.

/crr6

Del Dolemonte on July 1, 2010 at 4:04 PM

Holger on July 1, 2010 at 4:02 PM

bunch of nothing really, just ‘outragous outrage’.

Grassley asked this philosophical question in relation to the 2nd amendment and “where does the Right to Defend ourselves come from”(i.e. God)

Chuckles headline was: “GOP Senator: God wants you to Pack Heat”

He has 2 post now on GOP Senators asking Kagan if she agrees with the Declaration of Independence that our Rights are Derived from our Creator.

jp on July 1, 2010 at 4:05 PM

How about a Constitutional Amendment disbanding the Supreme Court? Clearly 44% of it is just useless!

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on July 1, 2010 at 4:05 PM

I suppose she didn’t say, “that they are “endowed by the Creator.”

Wethal on July 1, 2010 at 4:03 PM

she would not say that, correct. Much to Charles Johnson’s delight.

jp on July 1, 2010 at 4:06 PM

Here is Coburn asking about Natural Rights(“God given Inalienable Rights”)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHdlOMBefxs&feature=player_embedded

Coburn: What do you beleive, are there Inalienable Rights?
Kagan: spin

and Grassley

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyNTHY6ekjo&feature=player_embedded

jp on July 1, 2010 at 4:09 PM

I thought Justice Breyer’s argument was particulary irritating. To wit, the ruling will now require courts to determine what limits the government can place on the Second Amendment. Horrors! Shocking!

It’s called self-government. Y’now, drawing limits, making distinctions. They’re not handed down to us by Platonic Guardians. We mortal humans get together and make them.

SteveMG on July 1, 2010 at 3:45 PM

Very interesting. Notice how he has no problem with the courts micromanging abortion rights. Breyer also wrote a book on how great democracy and voting was. When someone asked him why people can’t vote on whether abortion should be legal or not, he got all petulant. LIberal jurist are some of the most revolting people out there.

TimTebowSavesAmerica on July 1, 2010 at 4:09 PM

Clearly 44% of it is just useless!

Dread Pirate Roberts VI on July 1, 2010 at 4:05 PM

But, who would be there to rubber-stamp unconstitutional legislation?

Much to Charles Johnson’s delight.

jp on July 1, 2010 at 4:06 PM

IIRC, Charles is the sort of Atheist who replaces the State for God. He’d sell his liberties for just a few more visitors. Basically he is a Prostitute.

Holger on July 1, 2010 at 4:09 PM

They would never accept federalism as a rationale for letting states “experiment” with freedom of speech, freedom of religion, or due process protections.

Never? Wait a minu.
.
.
.
. .
. .

Fallon on July 1, 2010 at 4:09 PM

Our country is hanging by a thread. The McDonald decision made that perfectly clear.

Kagan should NOT BE CONFIRMED UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

Why would we want another anti-Constitution justice.

The saving things about Kagan:

1) She’s replacing somebody just as left and out of touch as she is.
2) Based on her “performance” before the committee she will have no influence on the other eight.

Do I want her on the court? No. Will she change the make up of the court? Yes, not in ideological balance, but the left side of the court will have another persuasion light weight. Face it, Obama is not going to nominate somebody who sees the constitution as the rock of the country, only people who see it as a floating piece of debris in the way of their utopia. In this case he is making a mistake, as she clearly belongs in a cubicle, not an argument.

PastorJon on July 1, 2010 at 4:09 PM

Hatch Says Kagan Filibuster Would Be “An Unheard Of, Dirty Thing To Do”…

AOSHQ.

That’s why we get these lefty judges. Because of squishes who spent too many years playing tennis with Teddy Kennedy.

Wethal on July 1, 2010 at 4:10 PM

I wonder if Stevens would feel it was ok for states to experiement with other parts of the Constitution. Isn’t that where the powers of the Supreme Court are created?

hawksruleva on July 1, 2010 at 4:10 PM

Kind of an absurd comparison by the author. There’s a big difference between banning books and banning weapons given the potentially mortal impact of one citizen’s weapons on other citizens.

It’s interesting that the right to bear arms is now interpreted as the right to bear almost any firearm imaginable. I just don’t agree that inner city localities have no right to ban certain kinds of semi-automatic weapons at vocal law enforcement request. And the failure of right leaning justices to support local decision-making is interpreted as a character flaw of the left?

bayam on July 1, 2010 at 4:10 PM

You know they want to “stretch the constitution for redistributive change”…

d1carter on July 1, 2010 at 4:11 PM

thought Justice Breyer’s argument was particulary irritating. To wit, the ruling will now require courts to determine what limits the government can place on the Second Amendment. Horrors! Shocking!

SteveMG on July 1, 2010 at 3:45 PM

Isn’t the whole point of the ruling that government can NOT place limits on the Second Amendment?

hawksruleva on July 1, 2010 at 4:12 PM

BTW, liberals don’t care about the constitution. Never have never will. They’re superlegislators and they like that. The real constitutional Supreme Court ended in the 1930s, when Justices Sutherland, Van Daventer, et al left the court.

TimTebowSavesAmerica on July 1, 2010 at 4:12 PM

You know they want to “stretch the constitution for redistributive change”…

d1carter on July 1, 2010 at 4:11 PM

Obama called it the major failing of the Warren Court.

Holger on July 1, 2010 at 4:12 PM

Anybody who thinks anti-gun legislation is about public safety, or believes the sincerity of those in government who make such claims, it in a state of denial.

It is all about the transfer of power from the people to the state, and about removing the final, last, and best”palladium of the liberties of a republic.” 1

That is the totality of the issue.

1. Justice Joseph Storey

Herikutsu on July 1, 2010 at 4:14 PM

I don’t recall volunteering to be a lab rat for the court’s ‘social engineering’ experiments.

GarandFan on July 1, 2010 at 4:14 PM

“How did four Supreme Court justices wind up arguing against the Constitution?”

The same way McCain-Feingold was upheld, that’s how.

cartooner on July 1, 2010 at 4:15 PM

It’s the right thing to do.

BobMbx on July 1, 2010 at 3:42 PM

I’m sure NAMBLA says the same thing. Keep following that road, but I don’t think it goes where you want it too.

Fighton03 on July 1, 2010 at 4:15 PM

Holger on July 1, 2010 at 4:12 PM

You betcha, and Kagan will continue to “stretch” it…

d1carter on July 1, 2010 at 4:15 PM

rockmom on July 1, 2010 at 3:45 PM

they are more worried about law abiding citizens then criminals who don’t worry about permits and the such…does not make sense…

cmsinaz on July 1, 2010 at 4:16 PM

PastorJon on July 1, 2010 at 4:09 PM

She is replacing Stevens, who did have influence on others, notably Kennedy.

The worst example: Casey v. Planned Parenthood in 1992. There were five vote to overturn Roe v. Wade. Then Stevens reportedly got to Kennedy and pulled him over to their side.

And we got a messy plurality in which the Stevens group blathered about “reproductive choice” being part “of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.”

Neither Sotomayor nor Kagan will influence Kennedy, given his seniority now.

Wethal on July 1, 2010 at 4:16 PM

I just remember how several “conservative” commentators (you know who) kept saying that Sotomayor was reasonable and the best possible SOTUS candidate we could expect; and that Republicans should vote to confirm her.

Norwegian on July 1, 2010 at 3:55 PM

Believing that Sotomayor was a reasonable choice doesn’t make one a scare quote conservative. And really, do you honestly believe that Obama would have picked anyone who would have voted differently on this case? She was one of four justices to vote this way. It’s not as though she was the lone dissenter. I actually doubt she’ll ever vote against everyone, which is probably the best we can say about her, that she’ll be easier to manipulate. I’m guessing the same is true of Kagan, not that I care. She’ll be confirmed no matter what, and these are simply show hearings.

Esthier on July 1, 2010 at 4:16 PM

Someone should tell the justices this logic applies to all Rights. So, if the people want to ban abortion would it be constitutional?

Holger on July 1, 2010 at 3:50 PM

There is a whole lot of daylight between banning guns (a second amendment right) and banning abortion (an extension of a whiff of a supposed right to privacy).

Count to 10 on July 1, 2010 at 4:17 PM

If “the people” want to ban handguns, they say, “the people” should be allowed to implement that desire through their elected representatives.

Someone should tell the justices this logic applies to all Rights. So, if the people want to ban abortion would it be constitutional?

Holger on July 1, 2010 at 3:50 PM

someone should remind the justices there is a process for this built into the system already, and it isn’t by mob rule.

Fighton03 on July 1, 2010 at 4:18 PM

hatch….ugh

this is why the senate will always filibuster/try to filibuster gop nominees and not the liberal ones…

cmsinaz on July 1, 2010 at 4:18 PM

It’s interesting that the right to bear arms is now interpreted as the right to bear almost any firearm imaginable. I just don’t agree that inner city localities have no right to ban certain kinds of semi-automatic weapons at vocal law enforcement request.
bayam on July 1, 2010 at 4:10 PM

?
Semi-automatics are hardly “any firearm imaginable”.
I don’t see many people bucking for the right to tote around machine guns, RPGs, or bazookas.

Count to 10 on July 1, 2010 at 4:20 PM

“The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.”Thomas Jefferson

xler8bmw on July 1, 2010 at 4:22 PM

Count to 10 on July 1, 2010 at 4:17 PM

I don’t see how that takes away from my statement. One cannot pick and choose what rights the people have a right to take away.

Holger on July 1, 2010 at 4:24 PM

Because the GOP (or at least enough of them) think it’s not “collegial” to oppose someone who’s “qualified” but a radical. Thet as long as the person is qualified, the president should have his pick. See Hatch and Graham, for example, on Judiciary.

Even though the Dems don’t mind opposing someone who’s eminently qualified but too conservative for them. See Alito. Or Miguel Estrada.

The GOP is not the “Stupid Party” for nothing.

Lock thread.

The problem is not the Democrats, the problem is the Republicans are lead by sissified schmucks who have no philosophical convictions. They go along to get along governing like it’s the 1950′s.

rickyricardo on July 1, 2010 at 4:24 PM

I understand the NRA has come out squarely against Kagan today and is notifying senators their votes will be watched.

Fighton03 on July 1, 2010 at 4:24 PM

It’s interesting that the right to bear arms is now interpreted as the right to bear almost any firearm imaginable. I just don’t agree that inner city localities have no right to ban certain kinds of semi-automatic weapons at vocal law enforcement request. And the failure of right leaning justices to support local decision-making is interpreted as a character flaw of the left?

bayam on July 1, 2010 at 4:10 PM

So you’re saying that if the Montana legislature decided that Twinkies could no longer be purchased or eaten in Montana due to the mortal impact of obesity and diabetes, that’s ok?

Why not cars? Pools? Pool cues? Baseball bats? Sharp sticks? Blunt sticks? Rocks? (Oh wait, the Jihadis use them in the practice of their peaceful religion, so banning them would violate the seperation of church and state)

Continuing: Bow and arrows? Electricity? Dry Cleaner bags (Hell, these things come with death warnings!)? Power tools? Ladders? High places? Water? Cement shoes? Fertilizer? Diesel fuel? (Or just a ban on buying them in large quantities, or just banning the mixing of the two?)

Where do you stop in the quest to remove dangers from the people? Everything I’ve listed is a known cause of death. Is there a line…you know…this dangerous thing but not that one?

BobMbx on July 1, 2010 at 4:25 PM

Holger on July 1, 2010 at 4:12 PM

Anyone (Obama) who like the Warren Court shouldn’t be president! Also, Warrne was never a judge when appointed oh wait neither is Kagan.

xler8bmw on July 1, 2010 at 4:26 PM

hawksruleva: Isn’t the whole point of the ruling that government can NOT place limits on the Second Amendment?

The court ruled that the 2nd Amendment is normal Constitutional settled law, with the test of violation being a very high bar, but same as other Fundamental rights. Think 1st Amendment and what restriction would be allowed by that — yelling fire in a crowded theater. The guidelines set down by the SC state that the right is a fundamental unalienable right, they wrapped that in the right to life, self defense.

Lower courts decide limits to that, usually, except the rights that come from the obvious penumbra and emanations of the Constitution, instead of the written word. Think abortion and how that became a ‘right’.

tarpon on July 1, 2010 at 4:26 PM

“The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.”Thomas Jefferson

xler8bmw on July 1, 2010 at 4:22 PM

How true. the second doesn’t actually protect our rights. It is only a trip wire. Something that serves as a loud and explicit warning that gov’t is growing too powerful.

Fighton03 on July 1, 2010 at 4:26 PM

It’s interesting that the right to bear arms is now interpreted as the right to bear almost any firearm imaginable. I just don’t agree that inner city localities have no right to ban certain kinds of semi-automatic weapons at vocal law enforcement request. And the failure of right leaning justices to support local decision-making is interpreted as a character flaw of the left?

bayam on July 1, 2010 at 4:10 PM

This wasn’t about machine guns or anything that could take down an army but rather simple handguns that most use for self defense. You’re not even on topic here.

As to the books, it’s not about the harm they can cause, and books can cause their own harm, just see what interpretations of the Koran have convinced thousands of people to do (making a box cutter more dangerous than a semi-automatic gun), but rather, it’s about the fact that both are protected by the Constitution.

That doesn’t mean it’s impossible to place some limits on them. We still have slander and libel laws. Exposing government secrets is presumably still illegal even if not punished. It simply means that the government can’t prevent me from legal free speech.

Considering the Founders made this the Second Amendment, it is reasonable to assume they intended it to be treated similarly and completely unreasonable to assume that they wanted the government to take this right away from law abiding citizens.

Esthier on July 1, 2010 at 4:27 PM

While we celebrate the fact that five Justices got it right, we should be very worried that the other four still would rather search for penumbras and emanations for their own idea of social engineering than in actually reading the clear text of the document they swore to uphold.

Our 1L student to show up and tell us what we thought was clear text really isn’t clear text but takes someone with legal schooling to understand.

chemman on July 1, 2010 at 4:28 PM

he court ruled that the 2nd Amendment is normal Constitutional settled law, with the test of violation being a very high bar, but same as other Fundamental rights. Think 1st Amendment and what restriction would be allowed by that — yelling fire in a crowded theater. The guidelines set down by the SC state that the right is a fundamental unalienable right, they wrapped that in the right to life, self defense.

Lower courts decide limits to that, usually, except the rights that come from the obvious penumbra and emanations of the Constitution, instead of the written word. Think abortion and how that became a ‘right’.

tarpon on July 1, 2010 at 4:26 PM

IMO, this is why they didn’t use the privileges and immunities clause. the bar for infringement under that interpretation would be huge.

Fighton03 on July 1, 2010 at 4:28 PM

Here’s a way to ensure the right to bear arms is maintained. Let’s drop hints that guns can used to perform abortions…a tool of the trade so to speak.

That way, anytime when the Libs try to take our rights, we’ll say…”Oh….but that impedes access to a womans right to privacy”.

Slam dunk. Why do Dems want to restrict abortions?

BobMbx on July 1, 2010 at 4:28 PM

Fighton03 on July 1, 2010 at 4:26 PM

That is correct you can’t protect the other 9 unless you protect the 2nd.

xler8bmw on July 1, 2010 at 4:29 PM

The freaking news is that 4 disagreed. We were one vote from radical changes to a basic right at the state level. The government will never take any gun I own.

hawkdriver on June 28, 2010 at 10:35 AM

I hate to be an I told you so, but the 2nd Amendment news never thrills me. And it’s because I always feel like we’re just one vote from losing any gains. Which is ironic, considering recognition of the 2nd Amendment, is key to the basic right to exist.

hawkdriver on July 1, 2010 at 4:32 PM

Its called the Bill of Rights, not “a few things that sound pretty good now, but can ignored later on if a few folks feel that way”.

BobMbx on July 1, 2010 at 4:32 PM

Norwegian on July 1, 2010 at 3:55 PM

I’ve been listening to that since the 70′s. The expressions on their faces when they find out they were nothing but a useful idiot are a Kodak Moment.

chemman on July 1, 2010 at 4:33 PM

I just don’t agree that inner city localities have no right to ban certain kinds of semi-automatic weapons at vocal law enforcement request.
bayam on July 1, 2010 at 4:10 PM

If law enforcement wants it, should we have curfews for everyone? If law enforcement wants it, should warrentless searches with no probable cause be allowed at all times?

If law enforcement wants it should police be allowed to use whatever force they want for any reason?

Should law enforcement be allowed to ban speech?

Monkeytoe on July 1, 2010 at 4:34 PM

BobMbx on July 1, 2010 at 4:32 PM

4 out of 9 Justices of the Supreme Court call you Racist.

Holger on July 1, 2010 at 4:34 PM

Mao quote “Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.”

American People To Mao “Roger That”

Dr Evil on July 1, 2010 at 4:37 PM

Isn’t the whole point of the ruling that government can NOT place limits on the Second Amendment?

No, only that individuals now have the individual right and states may not deny them that right. E.g., bans on guns aren’t permitted.

However, like all rights the government can place limits on the exercise of those rights. The question now is what are those limits and what is the standard that states/localities must meet in order to enact those limits.

So, the city of Chicago will say you can have a gun (only one) but you have to have locks on it or it must be disassembled when you’re not using it or you have to have courses or you must meet this or that requirement.

The question is how far can Chicago limit the right to own guns. They can’t ban the ownership; but they can limit it.

SteveMG on July 1, 2010 at 4:43 PM

Because loons have been allowed on the court when they, could’a, would’a, should’a, been filibustered!

Dammit.

Speakup on July 1, 2010 at 4:44 PM

If only there were a cartoon bubble above Kagan’s head while she was responding we would have seen, “Constitution Schmonstitution”.

Mason on July 1, 2010 at 4:45 PM

bayam on July 1, 2010 at 4:10 PM

I bet you are still afraid of the bogey man hiding under your bed to.

chemman on July 1, 2010 at 4:48 PM

Leftists justices have no judicial philosophy. They have no code of conduct or method of arriving at their decisions. They simply rule however the hell they want and pretend that they’re following the Constitution. Sometimes they employ the ruse of citing public opinion, sometimes they employ they ruse of citing foreign law and sometimes they just say “because I said so.” To them, their own powers are without limit. The robe entitles them to enforce their desires on all of us.

MJBrutus on July 1, 2010 at 4:49 PM

SteveMG on July 1, 2010 at 4:43 PM

The court has to generate work for themselves somehow.

chemman on July 1, 2010 at 4:49 PM

Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Tennessee… the States now working to get federal regulations out of the way for arms made instate solde to citizens instate and never crossing state lines.

Ahhh… protecting the citizen’s right to bear arms by the States. A reminder to the federal government that self-defense includes against the tyranny of government. And that takes more than handguns, but less than the arms of armies. Of course if the States decide to truly forego federal regulations, then it is up to each State to determine just how far the citizenry can go in that realm to support the militia.

Isn’t federalism wonderful?

Lets make sure we don’t lose it, shall we.

ajacksonian on July 1, 2010 at 4:50 PM

If the issue is that the right to gun ownership can be abused, well, so can all of the other rights.

Rush yesterday was comparing Kagans beliefs that if the govenrment, even if it’s silly, could have the right to dictate what we can, and cannot eat. Well there is, as Rush pointed out, no provision in the constitution to support abortion rights. Which is why they attained them using privacy rights. A woman as the rights to her own body.

Now….how can a woman have rights to her own body, when it pertains to a human being growing inside of her, yet we can’t have the rights to consume what we please, and have those rights of privacy over our own bodies.

The same holds true here. Gun rights are specifically laid out in the constitution. Abortion rights are not. How hard is that to figure out?

Which reaches to only one conclusion. These liberal justices aren’t going with the constitution to base their decisions. They are purely based on ideology, and personal beliefs, and wants.

capejasmine on July 1, 2010 at 4:51 PM

What is conservative about allowing the Supreme Court to usurp the authority of the several states? If anything, this ruling should be a clear message that “conservative” justices do not care about original intent or actual federalism. The Bill of Rights was intended only to apply to the federal government, and all conservatives should be alarmed by the fact that the court has appointed itself arbiter of all state sovereignty. Regardless of whether we appoint conservative or liberal justices, the very nature of the court is now against the real conservative principles and traditions of this country.

Innocent Smith on July 1, 2010 at 4:52 PM

SteveMG on July 1, 2010 at 4:43 PM

They would probably strike down such restrictions. Theoretically, even laws prohibiting the carrying of firearms may be struck down as it would infringe.

Such measures as outlawing the brandishing of your firearm would be roughly the equivalent of yelling Fire in a Crowded Theater.

The 2nd Amendment is the only right off the top of my head where you need to have something separate from your body to exercise. You can exercise Free Speech with your voice but you need a Firearm to exercise your right to Keep and Bear Arms so they could not outlaw carrying a handgun on your body, they could outlaw branding your firearm except in cases where it is justified.

They cannot outlaw Free Speech in public, could they outlaw exercising the Right to Keep and Bear Arms in public?

Holger on July 1, 2010 at 4:54 PM

Innocent Smith on July 1, 2010 at 4:52 PM

While I agree with your point, that ship sailed a long time ago, and we would need a lot more conservative justices on the Court to even think about undoing it. If every other right in the bill of rights has been applied to the states, then the 2nd should be as well.

If we can get rid of the incorporation doctrine, then I would agree with you as to the 2nd amendment.

Monkeytoe on July 1, 2010 at 4:56 PM

I just don’t agree that inner city localities have no right to ban certain kinds of semi-automatic weapons at vocal law enforcement request. And the failure of right leaning justices to support local decision-making is interpreted as a character flaw of the left?

bayam on July 1, 2010 at 4:10 PM

What would banning certain kinds of weapons accomplish?

Vince on July 1, 2010 at 4:57 PM

Innocent Smith on July 1, 2010 at 4:52 PM

Totally stunned by this statement.

The Bill of Rights was intended only to apply to the federal government

So only the Federal Government (or its employees) has the right to keep and bear arms? Free Speech?

Maybe I’m interpreting what you meant wrong. The Bill of Rights is a list of things the Constitution expressly forbids the government from doing.

Congress shall make no law……” has been, for many, many years interpreted to include any governmental jurisdiction, including but not limited to State and local municipalities.

BobMbx on July 1, 2010 at 5:00 PM

Sullum notes that Stevens argued that firearms have a “fundamentally ambivalent relationship to liberty,” which is amazing from a jurist supposedly working within the Constitution.

Stevens thinks he should be able to overrule the authors, signers, and ratifiers of the Constitution whenever he thinks it prudent. Why? Probably because he thinks he’s smarter than all of them put together, and all the American people as well.

Socratease on July 1, 2010 at 5:01 PM

“Congress shall make no law……” has been, for many, many years interpreted to include any governmental jurisdiction, including but not limited to State and local municipalities.

BobMbx on July 1, 2010 at 5:00 PM

That is the way it should have been. But read Thomas’s decision, he points out how the Southern States before the Civil War (and the 14th) went so far as to take away the BOR from Freed Blacks and White Abolitionists.

Holger on July 1, 2010 at 5:05 PM

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