The Rolling Stone article: As bad as advertised

posted at 9:30 am on June 22, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

Via Chris Cillizza on Twitter, Politico has the PDF of the Rolling Stone article [update: RS article up now at this link] that has created a firestorm for General Stanley McChrystal — and it’s at least as bad as advertised.  Michael Hastings paints a damning picture of a military leader who seems to have built a toadying entourage, whose disdain and contempt for the political leadership of the country drips from every page, and who doesn’t seem to mind who knows it — until it hits the presses.  The most damning criticism comes not from McChrystal, however, but from one of his aides (language warning throughout post):

Taking the advice of both the Pentagon and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he also fired Gen. David McKiernan – then the U.S. and NATO commander in Afghanistan – and replaced him with a man he didn’t know and had met only briefly: Gen. Stanley McChrystal. It was the first time a top general had been relieved from duty during wartime in more than 50 years, since Harry Truman fired Gen. Douglas MacArthur at the height of the Korean War.

Even though he had voted for Obama, McChrystal and his new commander in chief failed from the outset to connect. The general first encountered Obama a week after he took office, when the president met with a dozen senior military officials in a room at the Pentagon known as the Tank. According to sources familiar with the meeting, McChrystal thought Obama looked “uncomfortable and intimidated” by the roomful of military brass. Their first one-on-one meeting took place in the Oval Office four months later, after McChrystal got the Afghanistan job, and it didn’t go much
better. “It was a 10-minute photo op,” says an adviser to McChrystal. “Obama clearly didn’t know anything about him, who he was. Here’s the guy who’s going to run his fucking war, but he didn’t seem very engaged. The Boss was pretty disappointed.”

That is the kind of revelation that either a commander of a theater of war saves for his memoirs, or resigns to make to Congress. During the war, however, the expectation is that all sides refrain from airing this kind of dirty laundry. McChrystal appears not to know that. Worse yet, these and other anecdotes from his inner circle appear to show that McChrystal either tolerates or actively encourages disrespect for the civilian leadership that runs the US military. Here’s another example, one a little more clear:

Now, flipping through printout cards of his speech in Paris, McChrystal wonders aloud what Biden question he might get today, and how he should respond. “I never know what’s going to pop out until I’m up there, that’s the problem,” he says. Then, unable to help themselves, he and
his staff imagine the general dismissing the vice president with a good one-liner.

“Are you asking about Vice President Biden?” McChrystal says with a laugh. “Who’s that?”

“Biden?” suggests a top adviser. “Did you say: Bite Me?”

And another:

McChrystal reserves special skepticism for Holbrooke, the official in charge of reintegrating the Taliban. “The Boss says he’s like a wounded animal,” says a member of the general’s team. “Holbrooke keeps hearing rumors that he’s going to get fired, so that makes him dangerous. He’s a brilliant guy, but he just comes in, pulls on a lever, whatever he can grasp onto. But this is COIN, and you can’t just have someone yanking on shit.”

At one point on his trip to Paris, McChrystal checks his BlackBerry. “Oh, not another e-mail from Holbrooke,” he groans. “I don’t even want to open it.” He clicks on the message and reads the salutation out loud, then stuffs the BlackBerry back in his pocket, not bothering to conceal his annoyance.
“Make sure you don’t get any of that on your leg,” an aide jokes, referring to the e-mail.

Only one in Obama’s administration gets much respect — and you’ll be surprised who receives it:

Part of the problem is structural: The Defense Department budget exceeds $600 billion a year, while the State Department receives only $50 billion. But part of the problem is personal: In private, Team McChrystal likes to talk shit about many of Obama’s top people on the diplomatic side. One aide calls Jim Jones, a retired four-star general and veteran of the Cold War, a “clown” who remains “stuck in 1985.” Politicians like McCain and Kerry, says another aide, “turn up, have a meeting with Karzai, criticize him at the airport press conference, then get back for the Sunday talk shows. Frankly, it’s not very helpful.” Only Hillary Clinton receives good reviews from McChrystal’s inner circle. “Hillary had Stan’s back during the strategic review,” says an adviser. “She said, ‘If Stan wants it, give him what he needs.’ ”

Some will say that we have had plenty of brilliant generals who won wars while being difficult and opinionated. That is true, but even those generals understood to keep their opinions within a tight, private circle — and knew not to encourage insubordination among their staff. George Patton wound up getting fired for airing too many of his opinions about de-Nazification and the Soviets publicly while administering post-war Germany; Douglas MacArthur, one of the most self-centered military leaders in American history, succeeded brilliantly until he publicly challenged his Commander in Chief on war strategies. Being right, or at least mostly right, didn’t do either Patton or MacArthur much good in the end, nor should it have.

So far, McChrystal hasn’t earned enough leash by winning anything. Regardless of what one thinks of the current C-in-C, Obama is still the man elected by the people to run the executive branch and the military. The picture this article paints is one of a lack of discipline and respect, and the White House has every right to demand an apology and replace McChrystal with someone who understands better the subtleties of overall command and its politics.

Will Obama fire McChrystal? It’s hard to say, mainly because of the critical juncture we face in Afghanistan and McChrystal’s deep involvement in all phases of the effort. But after reading the Rolling Stone article, which McChrystal has yet to deny, it would be very hard to blame Barack Obama if he canned McChrystal over it.

Update: Byron York says that McChrystal’s disdain for civilian leadership was a powderkeg waiting to blow:

I just got off the phone with a retired military man, with more than 25 years experience, who has worked with Gen. Stanley McChrystal in the Pentagon.  His reaction to McChrystal’s performance in the new Rolling Stone profile?  No surprise at all.

“Those of us who knew him would unanimously tell you that this was just a matter of time,” the man says.  “He talks this way all the time.  I’m surprised it took this long for it to rear its ugly head.”

Byron also points out the corner into which Obama has painted himself:

Obama is in a bind with McChrystal.  There’s no doubt Obama would be fully justified in firing his top general.  But at the same time Obama has committed himself to a rigid timeline for withdrawal from Afghanistan.  Changing commanders could complicate that enormously.  Right now, because of his own policy decisions, the president has no good choice.

Not unless he can convince David Petraeus to return to field command.

Update II: Rolling Stone has now published the article on line at this link, which I’ve also added above.

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I may have to go back a read the article again but concerning the ROE, are the ROE McChristals and Obama signed off on them or are they ROE imposed on McChristal by Obama?

Yakko77 on June 22, 2010 at 1:31 PM

the ROEs are often time a result of the political and diplomatic pressure from the political establishment…why do you think the UN peacekeeping operations are always so ineffective (I worked for the UN for a while). Because there’s a tonnes of politics involved and in the end the ROE devised for the particular mission and theatre of operations are so watered down that are completely ineffective, and people continue dying, be it civilians or armed forces. This is just an example because I know more about this particular topic (UN peace keeping troops rules of engagement that is). I have every reason to believe that the rules of engagement in Afghanistan are greatly influenced by the politics in Washington and their cultural sensitivities.

jimver on June 22, 2010 at 1:54 PM

everything her thighness hillary rotton clinton does is for one person – HERSELF. she’s a pig

sidewinder22 on June 22, 2010 at 1:54 PM

And I’m sure I have paid at least eight times the amount of federal income taxes that you’ve paid during your career.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 1:46 PM

And yet you claim not to be able to afford health care. I think you are misinterpreting the point. You seemed to be claiming that the military works for every citizen b/c we “pay their salaries”. That was what he was responding to by pointing out that he pays as well. That’s not really how it works though. Just like I can’t order a cop to do what I want b/c I “pay his salary”, I can’t order the army to do what I want.

However, nobody with a brain (I’m sad to see some conservative commentators agitating for more insubordination in the military) believes that teh military does not, or should not, be under civilian control, particularly under the CinC – the President, whoever it is.

Monkeytoe on June 22, 2010 at 1:55 PM

Obama simply cannot afford to have someone openly disrespect his decision-making in the way McChrystal did.

BradSchwartze on June 22, 2010 at 1:52 PM

Who cares what Obama can afford?
Bad for Obama = Good for America

Ronnie on June 22, 2010 at 1:55 PM

Those in the military are men (and women), not chattel, and their overriding loyalty must be to America and it’s Constitution, not to the chain-of-command.

Tav on June 22, 2010 at 1:10 PM

–So you’re advocating a takeover of the US by the military? Because that’s what it would seem to be if you don’t want them following the chain of command.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 1:49 PM

Your interpretive skills leave much to be desired.

Tav on June 22, 2010 at 1:56 PM

And yet you claim not to be able to afford health care. I think you are misinterpreting the point. You seemed to be claiming that the military works for every citizen b/c we “pay their salaries”. That was what he was responding to by pointing out that he pays as well. That’s not really how it works though. Just like I can’t order a cop to do what I want b/c I “pay his salary”, I can’t order the army to do what I want.

However, nobody with a brain (I’m sad to see some conservative commentators agitating for more insubordination in the military) believes that teh military does not, or should not, be under civilian control, particularly under the CinC – the President, whoever it is.

Monkeytoe on June 22, 2010 at 1:55 PM

–My point was not being able to afford healthcare if I am terminated from my job and am not eligible for Medicare. Not that I am presently unable to afford it.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 1:58 PM

Those in the military are men (and women), not chattel, and their overriding loyalty must be to America and it’s Constitution, not to the chain-of-command.

Tav on June 22, 2010 at 1:10 PM

–So you’re advocating a takeover of the US by the military? Because that’s what it would seem to be if you don’t want them following the chain of command.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 1:49 PM
Your interpretive skills leave much to be desired.

Tav on June 22, 2010 at 1:56 PM

–Ok. Then explain what you meant.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 1:58 PM

It has nothing to so with one’s personal feelings. One can hate one’s commanding officer more than any person on the planet, have zero respect for him or her and still be his finest soldier, follow his orders and the chain of command.

I do not respect my boss, it does not make me insubordinate. A soldier does not have to personally think highly of his commander in order to follow his chain of command, salute or follow protocol.

saus on June 22, 2010 at 1:50 PM

You are still missing the point between what you “feel” inside your head and what you demonstrate to the world at large. Yes, you can have no respect for your superior office, but you must show respect in the way you act toward him. YOu cannot snipe at him, or grumble at ordes, or talk badly about him to others. You seem to be arguing that you can do those things and it is not insubordination. You can not respect your superior officer, but you must show your superior officer respect.

Or, are you a barracks lawyer trying to find the fine line between what someone can get away with without crossing the threshhold into insubordination?

Monkeytoe on June 22, 2010 at 1:59 PM

The graveyards are filled with the irreplacable and with those who are “kept on the inside urinating outside the tent.” Obama simply cannot afford to have someone openly disrespect his decision-making in the way McChrystal did.

And McCain, Palin, and a whole bunch of others on the Republican side better come down on McChrystal like a ton of bricks. For not doing so can, eventually, lead to lethal consequences as well.

BradSchwartze on June 22, 2010 at 1:52 PM

I am not sure I understand why not? The real problem should be on the facts of what he said. Is he actually wrong?

I don’t think so.

I certainly don’t approve of his poor judgment, and I think he sabotaged himself and his troops.

He’s blemished. He’s actually quite in the corner now.

In my very unschooled military opinion, that’s not a bad spot to let him stay in, for all of us.

He’ll eat dirt now to make this succeed.

AnninCA on June 22, 2010 at 2:00 PM

Or maybe you guys are right. He’s self-sabotaging because he actually wants out.

In that case, I’d say we’re on the verge of collaps in Afghanastan.

Is that what we want? A failure?

AnninCA on June 22, 2010 at 2:01 PM

–My point was not being able to afford healthcare if I am terminated from my job and am not eligible for Medicare. Not that I am presently unable to afford it.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 1:58 PM

Ahh, the changing story. Regardless, it is not gov’ts job to pay for your healthcare or to “make it affordable” through price controls (which is all that Obamacare boils down to). All that is going to happen is a scarcity of health care – so that we all have less quantify and less quality. And, to cap that, it will cost more (as even the most generous analysis of OCare now show). So, I guess a win-win for leftists.

Monkeytoe on June 22, 2010 at 2:02 PM

I never agreed with this push, btw, other than Pakistan needs bolstering to prevent takeover.

I’ve always thought this was really about Pakistan.

AnninCA on June 22, 2010 at 2:02 PM

From Rolling Stone’s article referring to McChrystal’s writings at West Point:

In “Brinkman’s Note,” a piece of suspense fiction, the unnamed narrator appears to be trying to stop a plot to assassinate the president. It turns out, however, that the narrator himself is the assassin, and he’s able to infiltrate the White House: “The President strode in smiling. From the right coat pocket of the raincoat I carried, I slowly drew forth my 32-caliber pistol. In Brinkman’s failure, I had succeeded.”

Now that was unexpected…

libertylady on June 22, 2010 at 2:04 PM

Obama is being exposed on many fronts as a weak,naive activist that has no leadership abilities.

The difference in how Obama handles the difficulties of war compared to someone who has leadership abilities and is fully engaged is telling:


Being right should count for something

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/09/021468.php

Prior to the war, he was plagued by an intelligence agency that was largely clueless about the situation in Iraq. Once the war started, he was plagued by military leaders who seemed largely clueless about how to win there and, in Woodward’s account, may not have been sufficiently committed to winning. Yet Bush was able nonetheless to come up with the winning strategy.

Historians should also be impressed by this statement by President Bush to Retired Gen. Keane, that Bush told Keane to deliver to Gen. Petraeus at a time when Petraeus was struggling against superiors who did not support what he was trying to do:

I respect the chain of command. I know that the Joint Chiefs and the Pentagon have some concerns. One is about the Army and Marine Corps and the impact of the war on them. And the second is about other contingencies and the lack of strategic response to those contingencies.
I want Dave to know that I want him to win. That’s the mission. He will have as much force as he needs for as long as he needs it.

When he feels he wants to make further reductions, he should only make those reductions based on the conditions in Iraq that he believes justify those reductions. These two concerns that we are discussing back here in Washington — about contingency operations and the needs of the Army and the Marine Corps — they are not your concerns. They are my concerns.

…..This shows leadership and an unflinching commitment to winning…..two things we definitely don’t see from Obama.

Baxter Greene on June 22, 2010 at 2:05 PM

I love to read history, and certainly, McCrystal isn’t the only general to think the “commander in chief” is a complete idiot. :)

AnninCA on June 22, 2010 at 2:05 PM

White House Questions McChrystal’s Judgment, Maturity

This is the headline from Tapper’s blog. I find it hilarious that this White House would question anybody’s maturity. This is the same White House that mocks and ridicules people constantly. Just yesterday they were mocking Hayward for watching a yacht race.

McChrystal may have shown poor judgment, but at least he apologized for it. Has this administration apologized for Gibbs’s constant smart-ass comments about everyone else?

JohnInCA on June 22, 2010 at 2:07 PM

This is the headline from Tapper’s blog. I find it hilarious that this White House would question anybody’s maturity. This is the same White House that mocks and ridicules people constantly. Just yesterday they were mocking Hayward for watching a yacht race.

McChrystal may have shown poor judgment, but at least he apologized for it. Has this administration apologized for Gibbs’s constant smart-ass comments about everyone else?

JohnInCA on June 22, 2010 at 2:07 PM

He let the Rolling Stones guy travel with him for a long time. Yes, it was immature.

I think that’s what most Americans are frustrated about, personally. We’re sick of immature people who are in charge of huge amounts of resources.

AnninCA on June 22, 2010 at 2:19 PM

Gen. McChrystal also realizes that if Zero fires him he can then speak openly about the CINC’s treachery, incompetence and dereliction of duty. That is probably not something Zero wants.

The further that Zero endangers the country the closer we get to our military protecting us against enemies of the Constitution both foreign and domestic. A safety valve the Founders likely wished would never be necessary to protect against a dangerous, traitorous CINC yet had planned for it anyway.

Zero continues to show overt sloth, dereliction of duty and hostility not only towards our military but towards the nation’s basic liberties. Should Zero attempt to preserve his regime by canceling November elections (which don’t seem to be going his way) by whatever scam or manufactured crisis that just may buy his ticket to Leavenworth.

viking01 on June 22, 2010 at 2:20 PM

–Ok. Then explain what you meant.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 1:58 PM

Those in the military are men (and women), not chattel, and their overriding loyalty must be to America and it’s Constitution, not to the chain-of-command.

If there are any words there that you do not understand, don’t be embarrassed to use a dictionary.

Tav on June 22, 2010 at 2:23 PM

I’ve always thought this was really about Pakistan.

AnninCA on June 22, 2010 at 2:02 PM

To Obama, it is mostly about Arizona.

Tav on June 22, 2010 at 2:28 PM

and their overriding loyalty must be to America and it’s Constitution, not to the chain-of-command.

–So explain exactly what that means in practice.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 2:34 PM

Remember when.

The first step is, when the war goes poorly, public support falls and politicians dramatically increase their criticism. In Vietnam, this occurred after the Tet offensive in 1968.

Step two consists of growing criticism of the foreign government that America is supporting. In Vietnam, the target was the government of President Thieu. In Iraq, it’s the elected government of Prime Minister Maliki. Senator Hillary Clinton, for instance, insists Maliki has failed to seek reconciliation

The third step involves resolutions and threats. This week, the Senate will take up resolutions opposing the addition of 21,500 troops to Iraq, a buildup Petraeus says is indispensable to his plan to secure Baghdad.

The fourth step–the one we’re approaching now in Iraq–would put restrictions on troop deployments. In 1970, the Cooper-Church amendment sought to bar funding for any American troops in Cambodia, a sanctuary for invading forces from North Vietnam. Today, Hillary Clinton would put a cap on the number of American soldiers in Iraq.

Step five is the last resort of war opponents: a fund cutoff over the protests of the president. In Vietnam, it came in 1974, after American combat troops had been withdrawn, but with the United States still supporting and funding the South Vietnamese government. What’s striking is how much the congressional majority then resembles today’s antiwar coalition, mostly Democrats but with more than a handful of Republicans.

Step six: the collapse. In Southeast Asia, it led to the deaths of more than two million people in Vietnam and Cambodia after the Communist triumph. The members of Congress whose actions prompted the collapse expressed no shame or embarrassment for having betrayed allies. And practically no one held them accountable. Their perfidy was greeted with silence.

In Vietnam, the slide down the slippery slope seemed inevitable.

If they refuse to acknowledge success and cause a repeat of the Vietnam calamity, they should be held accountable. This time, self-inflicted defeat should not be met with silence.

–Fred Barnes, for the Editors

Politicians kill many millions more than the military does.
How do you decide which is the enemy?
The dishonest civilian loons who give you absolutely deadly ROE in a foreign land, or the honestly deadly people shooting, unfettered by rules?

Or both, The Commander in Chief has to decide, does he send our children to die for his ideals or does he send them to win?

There’s no more time or space left to reflect, only the best of the best brains need apply, that leaves out liberal political philosophy.

Speakup on June 22, 2010 at 2:35 PM

I was done to Bush (son & father).

It was done to Clinton.

By their own generals during war? I’m not saying you’re wrong, but do you have any examples?

Esthier on June 22, 2010 at 1:08 PM

General Sanchez and Casey were used by liberals as “Generals speaking truth to power” while Bush was doing everything he could to win in Iraq/Afghanistan:

Generals Behaving Badly
September 9, 2008; Page A23
http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB122091569725212341.html

Whether or not Gen. Casey long remembered, “The War Within” makes clear his disdain for his commander in chief. If the views and remarks attributed to Gen. Casey are not accurate, Mr. Woodward has done him a grave injustice. If they are accurate, they come as further evidence of the obstacles President George W. Bush had to overcome to get his commanders to start winning in Iraq.

….Casey does not hold the record of success that someone would expect to see when condemning a President during wartime:

Gen. Casey, after all, was the commander who all along maintained that the solution in Iraq was for America to draw down its forces — even after the bombing of the Golden Mosque in Samarra. He was the commander who later that year was given his own chance to secure Baghdad with Operations Together Forward I and II, and failed. Most of all, he is the commander who was wrong when the president was right to insist that Baghdad could be secured and al Qaeda dealt a harsh blow with more troops.

….Sanchez was very critical of Bush during war time….was held up as a hero by the anti-war left….then had to admit how wrong he was:


Ex-Commander Says Iraq Effort Is ‘a Nightmare’

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/13/washington/13general.html

WASHINGTON, Oct. 12 — In a sweeping indictment of the four-year effort in Iraq, the former top commander of American forces there called the Bush administration’s handling of the war “incompetent” and said the result was “a nightmare with no end in sight.”

Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, who retired in 2006 after being replaced in Iraq after the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal, blamed the Bush administration for a “catastrophically flawed, unrealistically optimistic war plan” and denounced the current addition of American forces as a “desperate” move that would not achieve long-term stability.

…..”ex-commander or not….this General tried to distract from his own failures by trying to undercut Bush and the mission in Iraq……and on top of everything else…was 100% wrong.


Sanchez: Iraq Strategy Working & the War Was Worth It

http://amyproctor.squarespace.com/blog/trackback/1836830

Outspoken critic of the war strategy in Iraq LT GEN (RET) Ricardo Sanchez seems to be softening his rhetoric. In this interview with Wolf Blitzer on Late Edition, he admits the current strategy is the right one and is working and that the war in Iraq was not a mistake.

(transcript)
BLITZER: So is it moving in the right direction right now, U.S. strategy, or the wrong direction?

SANCHEZ: No, absolutely, I think the tremendous successes that Dave (GEN Petraeus) and our great young Americans have achieved is, in fact, allowing us to move in the right direction.

BLITZER: General, looking back, knowing what we know right now and obviously we’re all a lot smarter we are now as opposed to then. Was this war a mistake?
SANCHEZ: Well I think when we look at exactly what the decision elements were that were being considered, the intelligence that we believed in, I don’t know that our nation’s leadership, both military and political, could have made any other decision. 
And, in fact, Saddam was a significant threat in the region and we expected that we had some sort of WMD capability that was likely to get in the hands of extremists. So, when you look back, given what we knew then, I don’t believe you can call it a mistake.

This kinder, gentler Sanchez, who commanded the war in 2003 is thought to be a major contributor to what he calls the bungling and mismanagement of the war. He pulled troops off the streets to retreat into the Super FOBs (Forward Operating Bases) making securing the population impossible. This led to increased al-Qaeda activity, a terrorized population too afraid to cooperate with Coalition Forces and a growing insurgency. It’s puzzling that Sanchez has been so critical of a strategy that he was an instrumental part of.

Sanchez Concedes He Had Enough Troops in Iraq 2003

LT GEN (RET) Ricardo Sanchez, former Multi-National Forces in Iraq commander, promoting his new book Wiser in Battle; a Soldier’s Story on CNN’s Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer, conceded he did tell Republican Senator Lindsey Graham in Iraq that he had enough troops on the ground in 2003. This contradicts his complaints both publicly since his retirement and in his book that throughout his command in Iraq he did not have enough troops.

Baxter Greene on June 22, 2010 at 2:36 PM

Monkeytoe on June 22, 2010 at 1:59 PM

Monkeytoe I don’t know what the US military is like. But I have yet to find a soldier anywhere on the planet in my own experience who does not gripe at orders, talk smack about one’s officers with others etc. No one is living in an ROTC manual?

BTW I am not a lawyer. In our military we are taught to challenge authority and it is not insubordination, nor does it entail disobeying orders. It is called trying to save lives. Before order execution if you know something your commanding officer does not or fail to challenge conventional wisdom that is flawed here you are penalized. It is not considered insubordination or disrespect despite the fact you are doing so uprank.

If in the US army your commander is incompetent are you supposed to blindly respect him, or take the matter to superiors because it endangers lives? I am asking honestly because that is not the case in our military here. We teach our soldiers to take initiative.

None of this affects our protocols, ability to salute, take orders when they are given. What you are describing to me is one big ego fest.

I believe your General was frustrated by what he perceived as incompetence or dereliction of duty / interest in winning a war. I further believe he has tried to pass that frustration on to his commander whom is busy making speeches, or in committee for months, or denying him resources, or a commander who failed to meet with him for months.. and now perhaps the result is plain to see in rash magazine articles.

You want to fire him, if I was one of his soldiers or his commander I would want to pin a medal on him. We clearly differ in opinion.

saus on June 22, 2010 at 2:42 PM

That is the kind of revelation that either a commander of a theater of war saves for his memoirs, or resigns to make to Congress. During the war, however, the expectation is that all sides refrain from airing this kind of dirty laundry. McChrystal appears not to know that.

Ya think?

Who cares what Obama can afford?
Bad for Obama = Good for America

Ronnie on June 22, 2010 at 1:55 PM

How far do you wish to extend that sentiment? It’s hard to tell with so many hardliners teasing violence as a remedy.

Borrowing from Golda Meir,
You hate the president more than you love your country.

The Race Card on June 22, 2010 at 2:58 PM

McChrystal apologized to all mentioned in the RS article but not to Obama.

He might go in just to resign.

I rejoice in reading the book and the movie.

Soon, the general will be free to really speak.

Fools rule.
The suit has no emperor.
Soldiers die due to all of them.
Gates is a weasel too.

Gibbs is a worm.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2010 at 3:10 PM

Seeing the movie…our country is scroomed.

Good people, save us from this nightmare.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2010 at 3:11 PM

This seems overblown.

JKahn913 on June 22, 2010 at 3:15 PM

Ok, Ed–so what. The RS article points out a lot of talking out of school by the general and his aides, and yet fails to mention the extraordinary amount of service that these men have provided this country. This argument is one-sided–it only gives pillow talk and sets up a strawman for Obama to knock down now that he’s getting his ass kicked by the oil spill. GEN Stan McChrystal is a national hero that has hand delivered scores of virgins to include Saddam Hussein, his two punk boys, Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, to name a few. I know Stan McChrystal and have served with him, and I agree these comments should’ve been kept closer to his staff—but there are a scant few military officers that have spent more time overseas than Stan McChrystal. He is a warriors warrior and the guys who make things go bump in the night love and appreciate this fine officer. He has been a visionary leader in the SOF community, led the Ranger Regiment, and JSOC to name a few. He’s a big boy and can take his licks for what he’s said that’s got into print, but is there any of it that isn’t true? GEN McChrystal is telegraphing the country in so many words that we are on the verge of losing a war and the White House knows it—Obama’s legacy is going down in flames and it is only a matter of time before that truth is completely revealed. I thank Stan McChrystal for his leadership and his service and I’d like him to go into that meeting tomorrow and turn his f*cking Ranger Tab upside down and tell Captain Kickass what he really thinks.

sorry for the soapbox.

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 3:22 PM

White House Questions McChrystal’s Judgment, Maturity

did they do this before or after they put down their beer bong?

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 3:27 PM

This seems overblown.

JKahn913 on June 22, 2010 at 3:15 PM

Though military discipline requires some sort of action I tend to think the tactics costing our troops their lives are more of a concern than any questionable comments made by the general and/or his staff.

Yakko77 on June 22, 2010 at 3:32 PM

But the bigger problem with McChrystal’s leadership has always been the general’s devotion to unreasonably restrictive rules of engagement that are resulting in the unnecessary deaths of American and coalition forces

Tav on June 22, 2010 at 2:26 PM

but how do you (or anyone for that matter) know that it’s ‘his devotion to restrictive rules of engagement’ and it is not actually the political pressure and the PC c^&* + cultural sensitivities of the civilian leadership that are actually responsible for how the ROE in a theatre look like in the end…ROE are 6o% a result of politics, diplomatic dance, political sycophancy, cultural sensitivites…ever asked yourself how was the Srebrenica ‘episode’ possible during the Bosnian war in the Balakans? 10,000 people killed (shot, more exactly) under the eyes of the UN peace-keeping forces (mostly NATO troops) yes, sure, the French commander in charge was an idiot, but he was constrained by his ROEs and a lack of clear mandate (or more accurate v. weak mandate)..so they sat there, after they guaranteed those civilians that nothing would happen to them, and watched how they were killed by the Serbs…10,000 civilians, mostly women and children…and then you want to tell me that politics and diplomacy do not influence the ROEs…and what a General can do under the circumstances? he works with what he has, within a set of limitations imposed, but there comes a point, maybe, when he realizes the policies are so bad and that the ROEs in the theatre don’t work, and they need to be changed…and he chooses to speak, yeah, through unconventional channels, but then this prez is so detached, and ‘unavailable’ and ‘precious’, and has such a busy social agenda, that it’s hard to get his attention if there’s no media hype involved…so he chose the hype…the Gen. that is…

jimver on June 22, 2010 at 3:43 PM

sidewinder22 on June 22, 2010 at 1:54 PM
frak you sidewinder. the men and women in uniform deserve someone who cares and is competent and has the guts to finish the fight and make the tough decisions. Hillary has been backing the troops since she took the SoS seat. Gates, Hillary are for the surge, Biden, rest are against.

get your head out of your ass and see the present

ginaswo on June 22, 2010 at 3:45 PM

When the civil leadership is ignorant of military affairs but shares equally in the government of the armies, the soldiers get confused and will hesitate. Once the army is confused and hesitant, trouble will come from competitors, this is called deranging the military.
-Sun Tzu

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 3:52 PM

I certainly don’t approve of his poor judgment, and I think he sabotaged himself and his troops.He’s blemished. He’s actually quite in the corner now. In my very unschooled military opinion, that’s not a bad spot to let him stay in, for all of us.He’ll eat dirt now to make this succeed.
AnninCA on June 22, 2010 at 2:00 PM

I think you are quite right about this…he has every incentive now to succed (if they let him continue and don’t retire him)…now at least he cannot complain anymore, if there’s something deeply wrong there, with the leadership, both political and military and the way they co-operate in the theatre, they have a chance now to get it out, vent the frustration, talk it over, and get it out of the way, so they can focus on the bottom line and the mission at hand…now that is all out in the open and probably adequate solutions sought as a result, this Gen in particular has every motive/incentive to try his best to succeed and no excuse if he fails (0f course assuming they keep him in that position)…

jimver on June 22, 2010 at 3:56 PM

Maybe GEN McChrystal simply wants a little time to play golf too? That’s not too much to ask, is it? He’s spent the better part of 6 years deployed.

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 3:57 PM

This seems overblown.

JKahn913 on June 22, 2010 at 3:15 PM

The 24/7 news cycle is tired of the oil slick…they think this is sexier ;)

Dr Evil on June 22, 2010 at 3:59 PM

The 24/7 news cycle is tired of the oil slick…they think this is sexier ;)

Dr Evil on June 22, 2010 at 3:59 PM

heh–so instead of watching Obama’s bleeding presidency spill all over the gulf, let’s watch Obama hatchet his hand picked general to pieces for calling him an incompetent boob, a statement that many are agreeing with.

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 4:04 PM

CNN now comparing the General to Joe McCarthy.

lavell12 on June 22, 2010 at 4:04 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/16/AR2009081602304.html?sid=ST2009081700748

Excellent background article on the decision to fire McKiernan and hire McChrystal. I think it sets the stage for Flat Stanley’s current behavior pretty well, sadly.

funky chicken on June 22, 2010 at 4:09 PM

–There are about 1.5 million people currently on active duty, with another 850,000 in the reserves. There are also about 600,000 civilians who work for the US military. About 225 million people in the US are over 18, so at least 98% of the taxes in the US are probably paid by non-active-military personnel.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 1:03 PM

Are you special? What part of Members of the U.S. Military pay taxes like all other Americans, don’t you understand?

It’s pretty simple the taxes are withheld, and the IRS determines based on your income, what you have to pay into the Federal Government or if you get lucky you get a return…..and if the service member is living in a state with a state income tax, they have to pay that too…and they have to pay sales tax, when they buy something on the civilian economy. They Fund The Defense of this Country just like all other American Citizens who pay taxes.

The Military even has a name for them “Twice The Citizen” because they volunteer to serve and put themselves in harms way for their countrymen, for example – you.

I am sure, they are all aware they pay taxes, every time they look at their pay stub.

Dr Evil on June 22, 2010 at 4:10 PM

Some will say that we have had plenty of brilliant generals who won wars while being difficult and opinionated. That is true, but even those generals understood to keep their opinions within a tight, private circle — and knew not to encourage insubordination among their staff.

Sorry, I gotta call bullshit on this. Many of the best generals have been fatalistic guys like Sherman who just did not care who their words and actions offended.

Having succeeded Anderson at Louisville, Sherman now had principal military responsibility for a border state (Kentucky) in which Confederate troops held Columbus and Bowling Green and were present near the Cumberland Gap.[40] He became exceedingly pessimistic about the outlook for his command, and he complained frequently to Washington, D.C., about shortages and provided exaggerated estimates of the strength of the rebel forces. Very critical press reports appeared about him after an October visit to Louisville by the then Secretary of War, Simon Cameron, and in early November Sherman insisted that he be relieved

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tecumseh_Sherman

TallDave on June 22, 2010 at 4:16 PM

The General is correct in what he says.

He was also wrong to say it. He should resign.

TiminPhx on June 22, 2010 at 4:16 PM

Conduct unbecoming, I share his assessments of the One and the Vice-One, but still (“bite me”…LOL).

Anyway, he’ll retire and make way more a month for doing nothing than most do here working, and in all likelihood may get some “consulting” jobs or lobby work.

Dr. ZhivBlago on June 22, 2010 at 4:19 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/16/AR2009081602304.html?sid=ST2009081700748

Monday, August 17, 2009

In his first two months on the job, McChrystal has moved with alacrity to shift the focus of U.S. and NATO troops from chasing the Taliban to protecting cities and towns, reasoning that expanding areas of population security would have greater impact on the insurgency than a series of raids. But there is also a recognition in McChrystal’s headquarters that McKiernan had made valuable contributions: The troops he asked for are now central to counterinsurgency operations in southern Afghanistan. McKiernan also set in motion changes in training Afghan security forces that McChrystal plans to continue.

Soon after arriving in Kabul, McChrystal issued a “tactical directive” to all forces under his command: The use of airstrikes on housing compounds, which have caused hundreds of civilian casualties since 2001 and stoked deep anger among Afghans, would be restricted to the most clear and critical cases.

McChrystal said bombs could be dropped only when solid intelligence showed that high-level militants were present or U.S. forces were in imminent danger. He made it clear he would rather allow a few rank-and-file Taliban fighters to get away than to flatten a house whose occupants might include women and children.

So, he cares more for Afghani human shields than about our own troops? Arguably so.

funky chicken on June 22, 2010 at 4:22 PM

–Hawkdriver and all, I appreciate your service. Just quit acting like a prima donna when someone reminds you that you ultimately work under civilian control by the design of our Constitution and governmental system. And I’m sure I have paid at least eight times the amount of federal income taxes that you’ve paid during your career.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 1:46 PM

Did you even read what I wrote? Or do you just answer what you feel like? I understand I work for civilians. I respect their authority. I wouldn’t have made public statements using my position or rank and real name to dishonor any public official.

My gripe is your back-handed attempt to put the military in it’s place by saying you pay our bills. We. Pay. Taxes. We pay our own bills. We pay your bills. Your health care. And unless you’re making six figures and have been paying taxes going on 38 years I seriously doubt you’ve paid as much in taxes as me.

Prima Donna my ass. Sometimes I think you throw those remarks out knowing you’ll get a pretty consistent response from one of so you can call us a prima donna.

hawkdriver on June 22, 2010 at 4:25 PM

I have been a military officer all my adult life. this is a common opinion regardless of political persuasion (but way, way worse with the democrats). They neither understand the military and, even worse, they treat the military with disdain.

Nobody likes a monday morning quarterback or a backseat driver… but at least the backseat driver is in the car with you. forget the consequence in blood or money… Politicians, in general, just care about their own political @$$. Not only do we have elected beaurocrats telling us how to do our jobs, they do so w/o ever having put their lives on the line in the defense of their country… and, at best, they they make political hay over split second decisions made half-way around the world in the heat of battle all from the safety of their swivel chair. At worst they actively work against us and give the enemy easy propaganda victories (i.e. Murtha’s “in cold blood” comments or “pull-out” timelines).

The telling thing here is McCrystal voted for Oboma… and he is disappointed. His sin is he aired this laundry, not that it stinks. Regardless, Obama’s still the boss…

BadBrad on June 22, 2010 at 4:26 PM

–There are about 1.5 million people currently on active duty, with another 850,000 in the reserves. There are also about 600,000 civilians who work for the US military. About 225 million people in the US are over 18, so at least 98% of the taxes in the US are probably paid by non-active-military personnel.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 1:03 PM

??? you ok? My husband is in the military and we both pay both federal taxes and since we are stationed in California currently and own property here, we pay Cali income taxes too. any idea how big these income taxes are here? yeah, I thought so… so, pls, talk for yourself!!! You forgot to add to your ‘inventory’ the family members of the military who pay income taxes too (both state – and quite high if the particular state happens to be California) and federal – spouses, kids of said military (the ones who do), they all pay taxes…so, please!! enough of this tax comments. what, you don’t want a military for this country, fine, you can resolve this by vote, vote against a it, end of story. We can always be Andorra, I wanted to say or the Vatican…but even the Vatican has the Swiss guard haha :- But don’t lecture me on how you pay for us, military families! You pay because you want to have a big military and flex your muscle internationally, if you don’t want that, you know how to solve this! We pay our taxes just as anybody does in this country! And now, pls, let’s move on, this topic is ridiculous already and has nothing to do with the General under discussion…

jimver on June 22, 2010 at 4:30 PM

–Hawkdriver and all, I appreciate your service. Just quit acting like a prima donna when someone reminds you that you ultimately work under civilian control by the design of our Constitution and governmental system. And I’m sure I have paid at least eight times the amount of federal income taxes that you’ve paid during your career.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 1:46 PM

aren’t you the same troll that said hawk was a KKK guy last week? this is utterly appalling—who the hell do you think your talking to when you state this drivel–it must be real nice to sit back and throw stones at those who protect your punk ass, when you really deserve to get your a** kicked.

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 4:31 PM

–My point was not being able to afford healthcare if I am terminated from my job and am not eligible for Medicare. Not that I am presently unable to afford it.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 1:58 PM

so, you’re not only a liberal, but you’re a smug, rich liberal. I look forward to seeing you as a patient someday Jimbo….don’t worry, it won’t hurt me a bit—

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 4:33 PM

in which his aides reportedly portrayed his commander in chief as a disengaged dilettante — and blasted Obama’s Afghanistan team as feckless

What a county we are. The majority actually voted for this.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2010 at 4:36 PM

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 4:31 PM

I do wonder if he has had to fill out his selective service form…pretty cocky for someone disparaging the All Volunteer U.S. Military, when the alternative is re-instituting the draft and being drafted.

I understand they raised the age for enlistment because we need to fill the ranks…I read for instance where the infantry was low on bullet catchers ;)

Dr Evil on June 22, 2010 at 4:38 PM

Drudge has Joe Klein reporting that McChrystal is going to resign.

Doughboy on June 22, 2010 at 4:38 PM

There is a reason that President Obama studiously avoids using the word “victory” when he talks about Afghanistan. Winning, it would seem, is not really possible. Not even with Stanley McChrystal in charge.

So why are we there?

Herb on June 22, 2010 at 4:39 PM

so, you’re not only a liberal, but you’re a smug, rich liberal. I look forward to seeing you as a patient someday Jimbo….don’t worry, it won’t hurt me a bit—

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 4:33 PM

not to worry Ted, he’ll have to pay for it, it’s mandated now lool :)

jimver on June 22, 2010 at 4:39 PM

FLASH: According to an unnamed source ‘Gen. McChrystal has submitted his resignation’ – Joe Klein on Rick Sanchez,

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 4:39 PM

AP–ED—red letter update.

I’m glad Stan is retiring, I also hope he attends the meeting and wipes his boots on Obama’s chair

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 4:41 PM

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 4:31 PM

I think that was nutterbutter.

ladyingray on June 22, 2010 at 4:41 PM

Michael Yon has a similar view of McChrystal:

I’ve never had confidence that the current U.S. President has the wisdom or personal fire to win this war. Our President is not a war winner, a reality so obvious that this sentence is already redundant. My final hope, or nearly final hope, was that General Stanley McChrystal would have the fire and the wisdom. He has the fire.

JackOfClubs on June 22, 2010 at 4:42 PM

jimver on June 22, 2010 at 4:39 PM

I’ll make him pay twice. First with his money, second with his moans. I’ll ask him to show me his “O-for Obama” face.

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 4:42 PM

Probably he knew he would be sacked even before he gave the interview with Rolling Stone, and created all this media hype to at least make everybody in the country aware of the tension between civilian and military leadership in Afghanistan…

jimver on June 22, 2010 at 4:44 PM

1. This is published by Rolling Stone. It’s a f’n hit piece. Bambi is being played by Rolling Stone. The very definition of weakness.
2. McChrystal was appointed by Bambi. Specifically. Then ignored. While being handcuffed with unrealistic ROE. And Bambi dithered for three months before cutting McChrystal’s troop request in half. And McChrystal is a lead from the front guy.
3. Bambi cannot fire McChrystal without total, “Obama lost the war!!” explosion. “Hey, hey, BHO, How many kids did you cause to blow?” (I remember the LBJ debacle.)
4. Unless Bambi actually fires McChrystal, Bambi sanctions insubordination. And weakens the whole chain of command, from the top. Well played RS. As for Bambi, voting present allows others to control events, again. And Gibbs, WH spokeshole, cannot speak against RS. The left must be really PO’d to throw this fit this early before November election. Rs 100 seats gain in House? Rs Control in Senate?

Caststeel on June 22, 2010 at 4:44 PM

Rs 100 seats gain in House? Rs Control in Senate?

Caststeel on June 22, 2010 at 4:44 PM

Rs gain veto proof majority?
Rs consider impeachment?

points to ponder..

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 4:47 PM

I’ll make him pay twice. First with his money, second with his moans. I’ll ask him to show me his “O-for Obama” face.

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 4:42 PM

:-) my sister is a medical doctor and she likes to ‘torment’ (just verbally though and just a little :) her patients who display a ‘socialist mentality’ as she calls it :-)…

jimver on June 22, 2010 at 4:48 PM

jimver on June 22, 2010 at 4:44 PM

After the Rahm rumors of him leaving I think there is a war going on inside the Obama administration. between the idealogs and the pragmatist.

McChrystal stepping down doesn’t help Obama in the least, it leaves him in a lurch. But the Left doesn’t get that part they are busy being offended for Obama. They will when Afghanistan starts to hurt Obama politically which given the on going build up of troops with no continuity in command, will be starting pretty soon.

It’s going to be a long summer….

Dr Evil on June 22, 2010 at 4:48 PM

) my sister is a medical doctor and she likes to ‘torment’ (just verbally though and just a little :) her patients who display a ’socialist mentality’ as she calls it :-)…

jimver on June 22, 2010 at 4:48 PM

yep, we have a vote as well…..we’ll help folks out, but you’re gonna learn a lesson along with it.

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 4:48 PM

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 4:47 PM

Veto proof is a bit much this early, IMHO. But I like your thinking.

Also Darrell Issa fired the warning shot across D’rat bows not to try any lame duck tricks lest their goose gets cooked from investigation.

Caststeel on June 22, 2010 at 4:54 PM

Haven’t paid much attention to, or analyzed this topic much until just now:: However:

I like to think it was all part of a plan, including the choice of Rolling Stone… (The magazine of choice by a lot of 0bamanites,) and not an huge blunder.

Ol’ Stan is a long time SF and Ranger guy. One of the few of such that make it past Brigadier.. (Spec. Ops service is generally a career killer.. “Legs” hate the snake eaters, and “legs’ run the Pentagon.) He knows how to fight an enemy, with scant resources, and win, even if it requires a huge personal sacrifice.

Maybe he sacrificed his career intentionally, in attempt to hit the greatest enemy of America.. (its current pResident)… right in the middle of the people with whom he feels most secure. Excellent application of PsyOps, whether intentional or accidental.

LegendHasIt on June 22, 2010 at 4:58 PM

I think this really puts obama in a bind. Does he fire his own hand-picked general that has admitted that he voted for him, but has now lost confidence in the c-in-c? or does he make himself look weak by doing nothing. Any resignation by mcchrystal would not be seen other than as a fire as this juncture. I also do not think that the general is a lone wolf, but echoing voices heard from down the chain. I think the military in general has lost confidence in obama and it is starting to show

ConservativePartyNow on June 22, 2010 at 4:58 PM

And unless you’re making six figures and have been paying taxes going on 38 years I seriously doubt you’ve paid as much in taxes as me.

Six figures for about twenty five years, hawkdriver.

aren’t you the same troll that said hawk was a KKK guy last week? this is utterly appalling—who the hell do you think your talking to when you state this drivel–it must be real nice to sit back and throw stones at those who protect your punk ass, when you really deserve to get your a** kicked.

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 4:31 PM

–And, no, ted, I did not call hawk a KKK guy. But let me know the city where you have your medical practice, so I can avoid it.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 5:08 PM

After the Rahm rumors of him leaving I think there is a war going on inside the Obama administration. between the idealogs and the pragmatist.

Dr Evil on June 22, 2010 at 4:48 PM

yep, and won by the ideologues evidently! I agree with your analysis, O miscalculated greatly… he probably thought that Afgh was hurting him politically, putting him at odds with his base, and since he set a withdrawal date anyways, he probably thought that he might as well start the process by blaming a general, throw him under the bus, then declare the failure of the surge, and then come up with an explanation of sorts, Afgh is just non-governable, or whatever, then pack and go…I agree that it will backfire politically greatly, especially now that everybody is aware of the circus (civilian vs military leadership) in the theatre of operations, that possibly might have been responsible for the killing of out troops…yes, I agree it really looks bad for this prez! but it’s of his own making you don’t go the Chicago way when you have two wars on your hands (and presidential watch) and throw that kinda politics in the mix, when you have people dying there…

jimver on June 22, 2010 at 5:09 PM

My gripe is your back-handed attempt to put the military in it’s place by saying you pay our bills. We. Pay. Taxes. We pay our own bills. We pay your bills. Your health care. And unless you’re making six figures and have been paying taxes going on 38 years I seriously doubt you’ve paid as much in taxes as me.

Prima Donna my ass. Sometimes I think you throw those remarks out knowing you’ll get a pretty consistent response from one of so you can call us a prima donna.

hawkdriver on June 22, 2010 at 4:25 PM

–I’ve been over six figures for over 20 years, and have paid income taxes for over thirty, so, yes, I do think I’ve paid considerably more than you. And there is no way that the income taxes paid by current military personnel equal the total cost of having the military, which was my point. And you should go back and read some of the things you’ve written about me. I’m sure you wrote some of them to get a reaction from me.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 5:14 PM

But let me know the city where you have your medical practice, so I can avoid it.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 5:08 PM

you never know Jimbo, homeboy don’t like no competition, I might be the only game in town and karma is a beeatch sometimes….so, just, please…..turn your head and cough … this won’t hurt me one bit.

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 5:15 PM

LegendHasIt on June 22, 2010 at 4:58 PM

Love your comment, LHI, and all the possibilities.

The RS reporter was an imbed, sent by Mullen, with the opposite intent.

Schadenfreude is sweet.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2010 at 5:18 PM

But let me know the city where you have your medical practice, so I can avoid it.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 5:08 PM
you never know Jimbo, homeboy don’t like no competition, I might be the only game in town and karma is a beeatch sometimes….so, just, please…..turn your head and cough … this won’t hurt me one bit.

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 5:15 PM

–You’re not the only game in town if you’re anywhere in the DFW metroplex, which is where I live. And I wouldn’t get your hopes up for a Senate take-over. Based on current polling, it just won’t happen, ted.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 5:20 PM

McChrystal should not even go in. He should phone his job in and then go talk and tell the truth. He might save more lives that way.

Schadenfreude on June 22, 2010 at 5:21 PM

–You’re not the only game in town if you’re anywhere in the DFW metroplex, which is where I live. And I wouldn’t get your hopes up for a Senate take-over. Based on current polling, it just won’t happen, ted.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 5:20 PM

well jimbo, life has a funny way of catching up with you–so just remember that jimbo…the next time you want to disparage the military and our knowledge about the CoC and taxes jimbo, because the next guy putting a tube in your chest after your dumbass gets hit by a truck just may see that “I’m Jimbo3 and I’m a dumbass” tattoo on your shoulder and remember who the hell you are and treat you just right. Ya gots that jimbo? good.

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 5:26 PM

All I can think about as I read the article was that too many of our guys are getting killed in Afghanistan right now and we’re not winning the war there.

If McChrystal was picked over others more qualified than he to be commanding general there, it seems it was because he was willing to wage Zerobama’s “kinder, gentler” war of empire-building and “winning hearts and minds.” (Something which we thought not to have succeeded doing in Vietnam, but which we actually did.)

If McChrystal is a big idiot to have A.) voted for Obama over a war hero like McCain and B.) agreed to head up NObama’s disastrous strategy in Afghanistan knowing it would get Americans killed and that it strengthen an almost-defeated Taliban, then he deserves to be fired, although the worst part of this is, Maobama will probably put someone even worse in McChrystal’s place.

I h8te this Precedent.
I don’t know how the country can take another 2 and 1/2 years of this idiot.
God help us and God bless our troops!

Jenfidel on June 22, 2010 at 5:33 PM

–You’re not the only game in town if you’re anywhere in the DFW metroplex, which is where I live. And I wouldn’t get your hopes up for a Senate take-over. Based on current polling, it just won’t happen, ted.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 5:20 PM

Oh, Lord.
You live in my town. Meh.
I hope your idiocy isn’t contagious, but it very well might be.
I can only wonder what lucky corporation has you an “attorney” and if our local judges appreciate your briefs with cites from Wikipedia…

Jenfidel on June 22, 2010 at 5:36 PM

ted c on June 22, 2010 at 5:26 PM

It’s just pretending to be obtuse. The question is when the trolls show up are they from Organizing for America? David Plouffe trolls leave distinctive tracks.

From Left Coast Rebel.
David Plouffe trolls engage in circular reasoning.

Dr Evil on June 22, 2010 at 5:39 PM

I am not surprised Hill came out well not at all. She works her AXX off to understand and support the military, she has since she entered the Senate and took a seat on the Armed Forces CMTE. She was endorsed by ‘bunches’ of Generals.
ginaswo on June 22, 2010 at 9:42 AM

You’re kidding, right?
Hillary, just like Bill, hates the military.
She’s no hawk and like Bill, Maobama and the rest of the Leftist Democrats, loves seeing America at home and abroad weakened and our military handcuffed.

Jenfidel on June 22, 2010 at 5:54 PM

And there is no way that the income taxes paid by current military personnel equal the total cost of having the military, which was my point. And you should go back and read some of the things you’ve written about me. I’m sure you wrote some of them to get a reaction from me.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 5:14 PM

wow, jimbo, you are indeed inept! So, it is not enough that the military pay their own taxes, what else would you want us to do? pay yours, maybe? It is not us who decide to have a military this size, may I remind you that, so if you pay, you pay for what you set in place (political establishment, voters/taxpayers, etc) and that’s a big military! and for what you WANT TO HAVE! I know this is hard for you to comprehend but it’s how things are in the real world…oh, and BTW, between me and my husband (and yes, together we make 6 figures too) we pay all our taxes, don’t get a penny back from the govt, and pay also the taxes for all the illegals in this state who get free health care, free education and in general a free ride, plus for a lot of people who get tax returns in this country (both fed and state) and pay no tax at all… I am taking it this is fair! care to give us a piece of your mind on that? or is it ‘patriotic’ for us, the military families to sacrifice our own, pay ours and other people taxes sand then get berated by people completely detached from reality…

jimver on June 22, 2010 at 5:57 PM

US generals are pathetic for giving interviews to rags like Rolling Stone (McChrystal) and Vanity Fair (Petraeus) while the country is at war. Do they also primp in front of the mirror before posing for the photos like self-admiring queens? Would Eisenhower have done such a vain, stupid thing? In addition, the emasculating rules of engagement which put US lives at risk (in fact, condemn some of them to death) so that careerist US generals don’t have to worry about their next testimony before congressional committees are beneath contempt.

I used to profoundly admire the “no soldier left behind” ethos of the American military — giving the utmost respect to fallen troops where such respect was due. Unfortunately, it’s afflicted with a hypocrisy at its root: Thousands of US troops have been killed and maimed by enhanced IED’s from Iran against which the US has done absolutely nothing. So the US will spare nothing to retrieve a soldier killed in action but does avoids reasonable and merited confrontation with Iran that would keep them from being killed in the first place. US military culture is suffering from some serious sickness, especially at the top. It’s time that this issue received serious public scrutiny and criticism. The military leadership has gotten a free pass — out of respect for the sacrifice of our troops and their families — but it’s time for this to stop. Obviously they follow orders from Obama but there’s a dynamic in which the military — due to the careerism and political savvy of the generals — has encouraged such dysfunctional use of the forces by the civilian leaders.

livetsown on June 22, 2010 at 5:58 PM

McChrystal has a problem with our ambassadors to Afghanistan. The American people have short memories, I have not forgotten THIS.

What if the Commander on the ground in Afghanistan is simply pointing out reality?

Dr Evil on June 22, 2010 at 5:59 PM

nd there is no way that the income taxes paid by current military personnel equal the total cost of having the military, which was my point.
jimbo 3

oh, and another point that shows your ineptitude on this issue…the US military does swallow a lot of money, but has it ever occurred to you what percentage of that money goes to the military personnel, and what percentage goes to the tech stuff, infrastructure, logistics, etc…my husband is int he air force, works for Global Hawk, care to know hoe much it costs to to build and maintain a (1) Global Hawk, or say, a F22…or, say, a mil satellite, or a missile defence system (mobile one)…you name it…yeah, I thought so…so, it’s not the people/personnel that most of the money go to, but it’s the arsenal, but then you wouldn’t know that, would you…

jimver on June 22, 2010 at 6:06 PM

May 10: General Stanley McChrystal speaks during a press briefing with White House spokesman Robert Gibbs, left, and U.S. Ambassador to Afghanistan Karl Eikenberry at the White House.

McChrystal also said he felt betrayed and blind-sided by his diplomatic partner, Ambassador Karl Eikenberry.

So isn’t Eikenberry the one who should be replaced?

Dr Evil on June 22, 2010 at 6:23 PM

I used to profoundly admire the “no soldier left behind” ethos of the American military — giving the utmost respect to fallen troops where such respect was due. Unfortunately, it’s afflicted with a hypocrisy at its root: Thousands of US troops have been killed and maimed by enhanced IED’s from Iran against which the US has done absolutely nothing. So the US will spare nothing to retrieve a soldier killed in action but does avoids reasonable and merited confrontation with Iran that would keep them from being killed in the first place.

Confronting Iran is a political decision. In a democracy the military is under political control.

Basilsbest on June 22, 2010 at 6:28 PM

And there is no way that the income taxes paid by current military personnel equal the total cost of having the military, which was my point. And you should go back and read some of the things you’ve written about me. I’m sure you wrote some of them to get a reaction from me.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 5:14 PM

Um no, that wasn’t your point. You said “pay your bills”. Now if you are really an educated person, which I seriously doubt, you would know by way of common sense that statement is an affront and would have made your point more clearly.

You chose those specific words.

Having said all that, and in the interest of full disclosure for a while after I returned home in ’75 the American People did pay my bills and sent me to college.

In any case, the General spoke publicly in disrespectful terms of the President. If any grunt did that, they would be court-martialed. Soldiers may grumble about their superiors among themselves (heh!) but the UCMJ is pretty specific on public disrespect of superiors.

dogsoldier on June 22, 2010 at 6:39 PM

McChrystal missed his chance to make a statement by resigning and blaming DOTUS for all the crap in Afghanistanland.

NOW…..DOTUS gets the opportunity to earn some MAN-cred by acting tough and FIRING A GENERAL.

Firing coming in 4……3…..2…..

PappyD61 on June 22, 2010 at 6:42 PM

Part of the problem is structural: The Defense Department budget exceeds $600 billion a year, while the State Department receives only $50 billion.

Part of the problem is the mindset from which this article was written.

Dude, the State Department doesn’t have to buy billion dollar birds, etc. Geez. To compare the military budget with that of State is to be completely obtuse. Think of all of the things it requires to supply and maintain an army, navy, airforce,… compared to what it takes to keep some spit-shined diplomats in caviar and champagne.

hillbillyjim on June 22, 2010 at 7:48 PM

And I’m sure I have paid at least eight times the amount of federal income taxes that you’ve paid during your career.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 1:46 PM

Says the faux attorney-but you are quite a good internet warrior. Congrats!

(really ? you’re sure? I gotta see the supporting documentation.)

CWforFreedom on June 22, 2010 at 7:49 PM

nd there is no way that the income taxes paid by current military personnel equal the total cost of having the military, which was my point. And you should go back and read some of the things you’ve written about me. I’m sure you wrote some of them to get a reaction from me.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 5:14 PM

You’re an asss . They are an employer like any other. Do your taxes pay for the cost of your health insurance. Yeh and you are smug too. Not that you really have a job other than warming your mom’s basement with your exhaust.

CWforFreedom on June 22, 2010 at 7:52 PM

nd there is no way that the income taxes paid by current military personnel equal the total cost of having the military, which was my point.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 5:14 PM

Somewhere, I missed the requirement for my taxes to be earmarked for military use and that at some point, we were required to become self-sufficient.

Jimbo, I don’t get the benefit of going to public school anymore but I still pay Hoke County taxes so other community members kids can go to school. I don’t currently even have a child of school age to partake, but I still pay. When I was sending my kid to private schools, I still paid my taxes so other kids could be sent to school. Now, I’m sorry you don’t get a chance to use the things our taxes collective pay for in the military. But flight school starts every two weeks if you’d like to fly one of our helicopters. No? Well, like you’re so fond of telling us, it’s a volunteer military. It’s also a volunteer civilitary. You don’t want to join, fine. Just quit your thinly veiled distain for us. You don’t pay my bills anymore than I do yours. We’re not some federal work program for special kids who can’t do anything else.

We all pay our taxes and hopefully receive some benefit in return. We all pay our taxes and the little children can go to school. We all pay our taxes and field a military to protect those kids so they can go to school.

hawkdriver on June 22, 2010 at 8:11 PM

And I’m sure I have paid at least eight times the amount of federal income taxes that you’ve paid during your career.

Jimbo3 on June 22, 2010 at 1:46 PM

Says the faux attorney-but you are quite a good internet warrior. Congrats!

(really ? you’re sure? I gotta see the supporting documentation.)

CWforFreedom on June 22, 2010 at 7:49 PM

I still haven’t figured out why his statement would have any relevance to anything, even if you go out on a weak limb and stipulate that it’s true.

hillbillyjim on June 22, 2010 at 8:15 PM

Part of the problem is structural: The Defense Department budget exceeds $600 billion a year, while the State Department receives only $50 billion.

My reaction to those particular numbers was: “Wow, the DD only gets 8X the State Department budget? Does anyone in DC want us to project strength anymore, or are they all concerned with projecting a philosophy of peace through strength incessant blabbering about unrealistic nonsense?

hillbillyjim on June 22, 2010 at 8:21 PM

And there is no way that the income taxes paid by current military personnel equal the total cost of having the military, which was my point.

What utter nonsense. Are you refuting a particular claim, or did you feel the need to blurt out the obvious on a whim?

hillbillyjim on June 22, 2010 at 8:26 PM

Fire Stanley, and change the ROE’s to KILL THE JIHADI ENEMY!

profitsbeard on June 22, 2010 at 8:27 PM

Confronting Iran is a political decision. In a democracy the military is under political control.

Basilsbest on June 22, 2010 at 6:28 PM

Obviously in a democracy the military is under political control. (Well in this one anyway, if not necessarily so under all democratic systems.) Nevertheless,
a.) Political decision-making by civilian leaders takes place in a dynamic context, among whose elements are feedback and advice from the military and a sense of what the military considers disloyal to its troops and undermining to its morale, such as being the chronic victim of Iranian sponsored attacks on American troops that are always countered with supine passivity from the US. Put differently, ass-covering and careerism among US military leaders invite a climate vis-a-vis political leaders in which decisions are easily made that squander US blood.
b.) In the context of the analogy with the “no soldier left behind” doctrine, do you think if politicians said that in the future, US soldiers would be left behind so as to avoid provocation or collateral damage, there would be no “pushback” from the military? I don’t think so. Permitting its men to be killed by roadside bombs without any pain inflicted on Iran should be worth even more pushback from the military.
c.) We here are not under political control and, in my opinion, should make an issue of this avoidable sacrifice of American lives and the complicity in it of careerist and self-serving military leaders who, effectively, let their men down.

livetsown on June 22, 2010 at 8:29 PM

Fire Stanley, and change the ROE’s to KILL THE JIHADI ENEMY!

profitsbeard on June 22, 2010 at 8:27 PM

Yes, please. Another helping of that.

hillbillyjim on June 22, 2010 at 8:30 PM

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