Obama administration: Health-care mandates are taxes after all

posted at 12:55 pm on June 18, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

Recall, if you will, that Barack Obama scolded George Stephanopoulos nine months ago for consulting a dictionary to call the health-care mandate a tax.  It became one of the more popular Obamateurisms of 2009, but served as an unequivocal statement that the Obama administration would not defend the health-insurance mandate as a tax in order to get a court to approve of it.  Obama even sounded offended by the suggestion:

OBAMA: No. That’s not true, George. The — for us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase. What it’s saying is, is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase.

People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that I’m not covering all the costs.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But it may be fair, it may be good public policy…

OBAMA: No, but — but, George, you — you can’t just make up that language and decide that that’s called a tax increase. Any…

STEPHANOPOULOS: Here’s the…

OBAMA: What — what — if I — if I say that right now your premiums are going to be going up by 5 or 8 or 10 percent next year and you say well, that’s not a tax increase; but, on the other hand, if I say that I don’t want to have to pay for you not carrying coverage even after I give you tax credits that make it affordable, then…

STEPHANOPOULOS: I — I don’t think I’m making it up. Merriam Webster’s Dictionary: Tax — “a charge, usually of money, imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes.”

OBAMA: George, the fact that you looked up Merriam’s Dictionary, the definition of tax increase, indicates to me that you’re stretching a little bit right now. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have gone to the dictionary to check on the definition.

My, how times have changed … now that Obama has signed the bill into law (via The Blog Prof):

In order to protect the new national health care law from legal challenges, the Obama administration has been forced to argue that the individual mandate represents a tax — even though Obama himself argued the exact opposite while campaigning to pass the legislation.

Late last night, the Obama Department of Justice filed a motion to dismiss the Florida-based lawsuit against the health care law, arguing that the court lacks jurisdiction and that the State of Florida and fellow plaintiffs haven’t presented a claim for which the court can grant relief. To bolster its case, the DOJ cited the Anti-Injunction Act, which restricts courts from interfering with the government’s ability to collect taxes.

The Act, according to a DOJ memo supporting the motion to dismiss, says that “no suit for the purpose of restraining the assessment or collection of any tax shall be maintained in any court by any person, whether or not such person is the person against whom such tax was assessed.” The memo goes on to say that it makes no difference whether the disputed payment it is called a “tax” or “penalty,” because either way, it’s “assessed and collected in the same manner” by the Internal Revenue Service.

Suddenly, the health-insurance mandate is a tax.  I guess someone must have given Obama a Merriam-Webster dictionary as a gift.

This means that Obama has broken two pledges.  First, Obama insisted that he would not attempt to use the tax argument to get approval from the courts.  Second, Obama just signed the largest middle-class tax increase in years, if not ever, by mandating not just the purchase of insurance but of specific kinds of insurance.  Some estimates show that over 51% of all Americans will have to change their plans in order to meet the new requirements, and that’s not to pay less, either.  Not only that, but the Obama administration is prepared to make the argument that it passed a massive tax increase in court.

Open up the dictionary, Mr. President, and find the word hypocrite.  See a familiar face next to it?

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Captain Kick Ass has become Captain Candy Ass!

Sorry. I had to repost this.

madmonkphotog on June 18, 2010 at 12:57 PM

I’m shocked….shocked I tell you!

Electrongod on June 18, 2010 at 1:00 PM

Some estimates show that over 51% of all Americans will have to change their plans in order to meet the new requirements, and that’s not to pay less, either.

If you like your plan, you can keep your plan. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Pretty simple enough words for me even though he said it at a 28 point nine grade level. Lies pure and simple.

Johnnyreb on June 18, 2010 at 1:01 PM

Poll tax.

lorien1973 on June 18, 2010 at 1:01 PM

Does it matter what he thinks or decides to call it? Let the SOTUS decide.

smellthecoffee on June 18, 2010 at 1:01 PM

Obama won’t raise your taxes one dime.

You’re just going to pay more for everything, get less and go to jail if you refuse to pay more for everything while getting less.

You stupid racists.

Good Lt on June 18, 2010 at 1:01 PM

Ministry of Truth was just unable to update all those historical videos in time. The Ministry of Truth is underfunded, undermanned, and simply overwhelmed. Updating historical texts and video requires Ministry personnel to work extended hours seven days a week, and moral at the Ministry is lower higher than it has ever been since Obama assumed the office of President of the Republic.

Skandia Recluse on June 18, 2010 at 1:01 PM

Consarnit, where is 1st semester law student crr6 to explain all this jibber-jab legalese?

Bishop on June 18, 2010 at 1:02 PM

Obama (Sept. 2008): I will not raise taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 a year. Period.

Obama (June 2010): I’m a filthy lying thug. Period.

JohnGalt23 on June 18, 2010 at 1:02 PM

Obama’s promises only apply to those who matter to him whom he represents to be 95% of Americans.

maverick muse on June 18, 2010 at 1:04 PM

I’m just happy the shameless liar didn’t jinx the Lakers last night.

Chuck Schick on June 18, 2010 at 1:05 PM

About that bus Obama keeps throwing people under…

The wheels on the bus are falling off
Falling off
Falling off

The wheels on the bus are falling off
As polls go down…

Drained Brain on June 18, 2010 at 1:06 PM

IRS asks, “Do you have insurance?”

you, “I plead the 5th amendment.”

IRS, “doh”

lorien1973 on June 18, 2010 at 1:06 PM

POTUS= Prevaricator of the United States

fourdeucer on June 18, 2010 at 1:06 PM

Too bad no reporter will ever ask him about it.

Jim-Rose on June 18, 2010 at 1:07 PM

Too bad no reporter will ever ask him about it.

Jim-Rose on June 18, 2010 at 1:07 PM

indeed, he’d throw them under the bus in 2 seconds flat

cmsinaz on June 18, 2010 at 1:09 PM

Wait, why’s he exposing himself to this kind of criticism? I thought the commerce clause (or was it the good-n-plenty clause) was such a slam dunk. Why not go with that and avoid being called a hypocritical d-bag, tax raising, jerk?

Weight of Glory on June 18, 2010 at 1:09 PM

On Foxnation: bart stupak= BP escrow account could fund health care! Can you just imagine how this 20 B is going to pay for all kinds of stuff? NEVER let this bho, team, or the d’s have charge of ANY money like the BP account!
L

letget on June 18, 2010 at 1:09 PM

Wait, why’s he exposing himself to this kind of criticism? I thought the commerce clause (or was it the good-n-plenty clause) was such a slam dunk. Why not go with that and avoid being called a hypocritical d-bag, tax raising, jerk?

Weight of Glory on June 18, 2010 at 1:09 PM

Because they know it’s unconstitutional and they are grasping at any straw they can to keep it from being struck down in court.

MobileVideoEngineer on June 18, 2010 at 1:10 PM

So is his administration admitting that his healthcare bill is unconstitutional because it’s “assessed and collected in the same manner” and still didn’t originate in the House of Representatives?

rogerb on June 18, 2010 at 1:11 PM

O: Now, let me be clear. This is not a tax increase; I promised I would not raise taxes. Only if we need to get this through the courts could it even be construed as a tax…..Hey look everyone! A unicorn pooping skittles! Better step up and get your cake, I mean skittles, while you can! Next question?

riverrat10k on June 18, 2010 at 1:11 PM

Wait…how can they argue this is a tax? It is a mandate. We aren’t paying the govt. for our insurance, at least not yet. We are being forced to pay a third party for a good/service. How is that a tax from the federal govt? I think that argument has many legal holes.

JAM on June 18, 2010 at 1:11 PM

Second verse, same as the first.

An insufferable ass is an insufferable ass, of course, of course
And no one can talk sense to an insufferable ass of course
And especially, of course, if the insufferable ass is the famous Barack Obama

Go right to the source and ask the insufferable ass
He’ll give you the answer that deceivers will endorse
He’s always on a dissemblers course
Talk to Barack Obama

Barack Obama just yakkity yaks a streak and wastes your time of day
Does any sane person even believe anymore a single thing he has to say?

An insufferable ass is an insufferable ass, of course, of course
And this one’ll talk in circles til his voice is hoarse
You never heard of a talking insufferable ass?

Well listen to this

He is Barack Obama

Cheshire Cat on June 18, 2010 at 1:11 PM

letget on June 18, 2010 at 1:09 PM

i feel sorry for the folks down by the gulf….they aren’t going to see one dime are they…

cmsinaz on June 18, 2010 at 1:11 PM

As I’ve been telling my friends (most of whom are libs) if he lips are moving, he’s lying. Instead of trying to list the plethora of lies teh One has spewed can we compile a list of times he has told the truth?

No! Why? Because he has yet to be straight with the public at all, you cannot list what does not exist.

Archimedes on June 18, 2010 at 1:12 PM

On Foxnation: bart stupak= BP escrow account could fund health care! Can you just imagine how this 20 B is going to pay for all kinds of stuff? NEVER let this bho, team, or the d’s have charge of ANY money like the BP account!
L

letget on June 18, 2010 at 1:09 PM

The $20 billion will probably be used for cap and trade. The bill they are pushing now is a $20 billion bill and BP wants cap and trade to pass anyway, so it’s basically a way for BP to pay for cap and trade without looking like they paid for cap and trade.

It’s a lame way and totally transparent, but nobody in government seems to care anymore.

MobileVideoEngineer on June 18, 2010 at 1:13 PM

Better step up and get your cake, I mean skittles, while you can!
 
riverrat10k on June 18, 2010 at 1:11 PM

 
The cake skittles is a lie.

rogerb on June 18, 2010 at 1:14 PM

Is the post picture supposed to be Obama and Pelosi pointing at those who voted for them and who they are now laughing at?

It is time to repeal this Obamanation of a law!

truetexan on June 18, 2010 at 1:14 PM

Weight of Glory on June 18, 2010 at 1:09 PM

Yeah, it’s weird. I think they realized the commerce clause was pretty weak. But calling it a tax makes it even weaker. There was a reason they didn’t call it a tax from the beginning.

lorien1973 on June 18, 2010 at 1:14 PM

Again (as I said in the headlines)

Forcing someone to purchase a third party product is NOT A TAX.

Skywise on June 18, 2010 at 1:16 PM

Over, and over again….I’ve since lost count, but during the campaigning, I remember an endless hoard of democrats spouting, that Obama would NOT raise any kinds of taxes on the middle class. They were so assured. So confident, that Obama would stand by his word.

Now…we’ve seen nothing but one lie after the other since he’s been in office. The pandering, support, and shilling continue. Is there not one…just one that will stand up and admit that Obama is the biggest piece of lying bullsh!t that’s ever been in the oval office? Just one?

capejasmine on June 18, 2010 at 1:16 PM

Wait…how can they argue this is a tax? It is a mandate. We aren’t paying the govt. for our insurance, at least not yet. We are being forced to pay a third party for a good/service. How is that a tax from the federal govt? I think that argument has many legal holes.

JAM on June 18, 2010 at 1:11 PM

This is what Glenn was saying was going to happen. They would argue that it’s a tax and when the courts say that it’s not, they government will come back and say “Okay, then we’ll just have to take over health insurance so the money is paid to the government.”

Glenn said that the bill they passed would be the quickest way to single payer and I think he’s right.

MobileVideoEngineer on June 18, 2010 at 1:16 PM

How is that a tax from the federal govt? I think that argument has many legal holes.

JAM on June 18, 2010 at 1:11 PM

Yeah me too. I think this makes the privacy argument stronger.

If you answer “yes I have insurance” to the IRS – will they try and prove you do or prove you don’t? Will your insurance company be forced to give up your insurance contract (and thus, your medical records) without your consent? IE Will it go hunting a crime, where one might not exist?

lorien1973 on June 18, 2010 at 1:17 PM

But, But, But……I can still keep my doctor and my health plan, right?

dirtseller on June 18, 2010 at 1:17 PM

W.P.E.

John the Libertarian on June 18, 2010 at 1:18 PM

IRS asks, “Do you have insurance?”

you, “I plead the 5th amendment.”

IRS, “doh”

lorien1973 on June 18, 2010 at 1:06 PM

IRS and DHS: “WE DON’T NEED NO CONSTITUTION!”

we don’t need no education/ Pink Floyd

maverick muse on June 18, 2010 at 1:18 PM

Ho hum! Tell me something we didn’t already know. We all knew he was lying out his a** the entire campaign.

NavyMustang on June 18, 2010 at 1:18 PM

Ed, you’re shouting at passing cars or something!

/troll6

NoLeftTurn on June 18, 2010 at 1:20 PM

The ScumBucket Brigade strikes again. mmmm mmmm mmmm

GnuBreed on June 18, 2010 at 1:20 PM

If they succeed in calling this a tax, they’ll have established a precedent for “taxing” our refusal to go along with whatever other stuff the government wants us to buy. So what next? A tax on people who don’t buy from GM? A tax on people who refuse to put solar panels on their houses?

Am I crazy for thinking there’s something fundamentally wrong with dividing the nation into groups based on personal choices, and then taxing those who don’t make the ‘correct’ choice?

Dee2008 on June 18, 2010 at 1:20 PM

Am I crazy for thinking there’s something fundamentally wrong with dividing the nation into groups based on personal choices, and then taxing those who don’t make the ‘correct’ choice?

Dee2008 on June 18, 2010 at 1:20 PM

Don’t tax deductions do this already, though?

lorien1973 on June 18, 2010 at 1:21 PM

On the latest episode of the Tudors—-“The law is what the king says it is.”

dirtseller on June 18, 2010 at 1:22 PM

i feel sorry for the folks down by the gulf….they aren’t going to see one dime are they…

cmsinaz on June 18, 2010 at 1:11 PM

Havent been paying attention have ya, they not only are not going to see a dime, they are more or less going to have everything they used to own taxed right out from under them.

doriangrey on June 18, 2010 at 1:24 PM

This is what Glenn was saying was going to happen. They would argue that it’s a tax and when the courts say that it’s not, they government will come back and say “Okay, then we’ll just have to take over health insurance so the money is paid to the government.”

Glenn said that the bill they passed would be the quickest way to single payer and I think he’s right.

MobileVideoEngineer on June 18, 2010 at 1:16 PM

Of course that’s what they’ll do. It wouldn’t surprise me if the mandate was a ‘poison pill’ designed just for this purpose.

Our only hope is to get the entire thing repealed. If that’s not possible, then we’ll be paying the price for this foolishness in higher costs and lower quality of care…forever.

Dee2008 on June 18, 2010 at 1:24 PM

letget on June 18, 2010 at 1:09 PM

No fan of BS but he actually said it in context of the people who have lost their jobs over the oil spill and moratorium. This actually proves that the 20b is a slush fund and not meant to help make people whole for their losses.

chemman on June 18, 2010 at 1:25 PM

So……..when is someone going to declare that Spanky is unfit for whatever reason and remove him and then start dismantling this illegal admin.

retiredeagle on June 18, 2010 at 1:25 PM

OT – Wanted: Person to direct operations related to the BP spill in the gulf. Administer clean up efforts and ensure that the federal government, state governments, and responsible parties are all working together. Hours: 20/week.

lorien1973 on June 18, 2010 at 1:25 PM

This actually proves that the 20b is a slush fund and not meant to help make people whole for their losses.

chemman on June 18, 2010 at 1:25 PM

Sickening, how many TIMES Obama will spend the $20billion.

maverick muse on June 18, 2010 at 1:27 PM

Consarnit, where is 1st semester law student crr6 to explain all this jibber-jab legalese?

Bishop on June 18, 2010 at 1:02 PM

The private sector is generally more incompetent than the public sector.

crr6 on June 12, 2010 at 12:08 PM

Del Dolemonte on June 18, 2010 at 1:27 PM

Hours: 20/week.
lorien1973 on June 18, 2010 at 1:25 PM

And we’re to be grateful it isn’t just 20 minutes.

maverick muse on June 18, 2010 at 1:28 PM

Del Dolemonte on June 18, 2010 at 1:27 PM

Slay!

maverick muse on June 18, 2010 at 1:29 PM

Would not want to be standing next to this man during a storm! Now that I think of it,… at any time!

UkiddenMe on June 18, 2010 at 1:29 PM

Am I crazy for thinking there’s something fundamentally wrong with dividing the nation into groups based on personal choices, and then taxing those who don’t make the ‘correct’ choice?

Dee2008 on June 18, 2010 at 1:20 PM

Don’t tax deductions do this already, though?

lorien1973 on June 18, 2010 at 1:21 PM

They do. And that’s why we need simplification.

Still, it feels somehow worse when in the one case you get a break on something everyone pays, and in the other you have to pay a special tax that doesn’t apply to others. Ultimately it’s the same thing though.

Dee2008 on June 18, 2010 at 1:30 PM

The private sector is generally more incompetent than the public sector.

crr6 on June 12, 2010 at 12:08 PM

Wow….for some, that brain washing really has a tight grip, once it takes hold. ROFLMAO!!!

capejasmine on June 18, 2010 at 1:31 PM

And “Baghdad Bob” Gibbs, White Press Secretary made the following statement . . . . (Sound of crickets chirping)

EliTheBean on June 18, 2010 at 1:31 PM

It wasn’t an “accident” they put the IRS in charge of collecting the money.

steveegg on June 18, 2010 at 1:31 PM

Consarnit, where is 1st semester law student crr6 to explain all this jibber-jab legalese?

Bishop on June 18, 2010 at 1:02 PM

Retaking her course on tax law? Humbling for a 4.0 student.

a capella on June 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM

chemman 1:25,
Yes, I did not put all the facts in my post. I have a feeling that those who lost jobs will be mainly ‘union’ members who get their health care taken care of, IMO.
L

letget on June 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM

Forcing someone to purchase a third party product is NOT A TAX.

Skywise on June 18, 2010 at 1:16 PM

It is if you went to Harvard Law school.

ladyingray on June 18, 2010 at 1:33 PM

Obama said he will not raise your taxes one dime.

He was right- he’ll raise them thousands and thousands of dollars.

(Including $2000 for a “bailout” of an underfunded government run flood insurance program for repeatedly flooded homes?!?!??)

LASue on June 18, 2010 at 1:34 PM

Barack Hussein Obama is a liar.

rbj on June 18, 2010 at 1:36 PM

steveegg on June 18, 2010 at 1:31 PM

Tax Court, the only court you are guilty until you prove you are innocent.

chemman on June 18, 2010 at 1:36 PM

letget on June 18, 2010 at 1:32 PM

Probably correct.

chemman on June 18, 2010 at 1:38 PM

It wasn’t an “accident” they put the IRS in charge of collecting the money.

steveegg on June 18, 2010 at 1:31 PM

But it was a mistake. IRS doesn’t audit or even check the answers to the questions on the vast majority of returns. They check the math (does it add up?) and the provided backup (1099′s etc). Beyond that, they don’t do anything.

About 1% of returns are audited. The “catch” rate on people lying about having insurance would be extremely low. They’d spend more money chasing people than it’d bring in.

Now, given that the IRS cannot even do much but take money out of refunds reduces the catch rate further. IE – what is the incentive to go after people if they wrote you a check and you cannot penalize them for not having insurance.

The simplest way out of the mandate is to bump your with-holding so high that you are forced to write a check to the IRS each year. This is really what you should be doing, anyways.

lorien1973 on June 18, 2010 at 1:39 PM

One of the biggest liars I have ever seen, or heard of. Impeachment is necessary to purge this disease.

ultracon on June 18, 2010 at 1:41 PM

The memo goes on to say that it makes no difference whether the disputed payment it is called a “tax” or “penalty,” because either way, it’s “assessed and collected in the same manner” by the Internal Revenue Service.

And now we know why the bill set up the IRS as the collection agent for the penalties. They’re going to claim that anything the IRS collects is a tax and the states can’t interfere with it. And of course, they knew this all laong. Which means Obama was lying through his teeth.

rockmom on June 18, 2010 at 1:44 PM

lorien1973 on June 18, 2010 at 1:39 PM

That’s part of the reason they’re massively expanding the IRS. More agents = more audits (and guess who they’re going to target first).

As for how they get the money, the IRS can and does garnish wages, go after savings, et al.

I look forward to the new black-market economy, but I won’t be hiring you when they start ramping up the audits.

steveegg on June 18, 2010 at 1:45 PM

This is good news. The federal gov knows its case in court is not strong if they insist that the mandate is a mandate. Now if its a tax the fed gov as the power to lay taxes not mandates.

I still say that Obamacare should be fought on 13th amendment grounds of involuntary servitude. Since the government is making us work to enrich the healthcare insurance companies.

unseen on June 18, 2010 at 1:46 PM

The simplest way out of the mandate is to bump your with-holding so high that you are forced to write a check to the IRS each year. This is really what you should be doing, anyways.

lorien1973 on June 18, 2010 at 1:39 PM

I advocate all the time that we neeed to do away with any form of witholding on all taxes from paychecks. If people had to write a quarterly check to both the Fed and the State for taxes there would be an instant tax revolt unlike any seen before.

Johnnyreb on June 18, 2010 at 1:47 PM

Tax Court, the only court you are guilty until you prove you are innocent.

chemman on June 18, 2010 at 1:36 PM

Soon to be applied to other courts, at least for certain classes of enemi…er, defendants.

Seriously, that’s another reason why the IRS is the Knock-Knees Tony of this outfit.

steveegg on June 18, 2010 at 1:47 PM

As for how they get the money, the IRS can and does garnish wages, go after savings, et al.

The current bill only allows the penalty to be taken from refunds. That’ll change though. Either before implementation or immediately after. It’s one of the fundamental problems with the mandate (if you agree with the mandate that is). Leftists grasped this immediately.

I don’t think they could hire enough agents to audit enough people. Every audit comes with a cost analysis (will we get more then this audit will cost?) – for health insurance that answer will almost always be “no”. Just common sense.

lorien1973 on June 18, 2010 at 1:55 PM

And now we know why the bill set up the IRS as the collection agent for the penalties. They’re going to claim that anything the IRS collects is a tax and the states can’t interfere with it. And of course, they knew this all laong. Which means Obama was lying through his teeth.

rockmom on June 18, 2010 at 1:44 PM

The IRS collects taxes. This fine is being collected by the IRS, therefore it’s a tax. That’s a pretty transparent attempt to misuse logic.

Dee2008 on June 18, 2010 at 1:55 PM

Johnnyreb on June 18, 2010 at 1:47 PM

Yep.

lorien1973 on June 18, 2010 at 1:56 PM

and moral morals at the Ministry is are lower higher than it has they have ever been since Obama assumed the office of President of the Republic.

Skandia Recluse on June 18, 2010 at 1:01 PM

Fixed

sloopy on June 18, 2010 at 2:02 PM

Obama said he will not raise your taxes one dime.

He was right- he’ll raise them thousands and thousands of dollars.

LASue on June 18, 2010 at 1:34 PM

“Anybody got a dime? Somebody’s gotta go back and get a shiatload of dimes!”

teke184 on June 18, 2010 at 2:07 PM

The private sector is generally more incompetent than the public sector.

crr6 on June 12, 2010 at 12:08 PM

Facts to back this up? That is probably the most moronic thing you have ever posted, and that covers a hell of a lot of idiocy on this board. Back up your statements or begone!

riverrat10k on June 18, 2010 at 2:08 PM

“You lie!”

the_souse on June 18, 2010 at 2:14 PM

The Constitution limits the kinds of taxes that the federal government can impose.

The mandate fines/contributions/taxes do not fit the definition of the kinds of taxes that the federal government is allowed. It is not a tax on income, it is not an excise tax, and it is not proportional.

Congress and the Obama administration know this. That is why they did not call the mandate penalties a tax in the bill. The big question is whether this admission helps the lawsuits against ObamaCare.

secant on June 18, 2010 at 2:14 PM

Consarnit, where is 1st semester law student crr6 to explain all this jibber-jab legalese?

Bishop on June 18, 2010 at 1:02 PM

The Hooters in the strip mall where her law school is located had a burst water pipe, which flooded the Hooters, the law school, and the adult book store on the other side of the school. Being good little libs, crr6 and her classmates decided to set some fires to help dry things out. They were last seen toasting marshmallows and giggling over porn magazines by firelight, as the strip mall burned to the ground.

AZCoyote on June 18, 2010 at 2:22 PM

What really bugs me is that they aren’t just saying you have to have medical insurance…which most of us DO. They’re saying you have to buy a plan that meets THEIR criteria. You could be perfectly well insured based on your own risk level and what you can afford, but that’s not good enough. If your plan doesn’t fit their one-size-fits-all criteria, they want to “tax” you.

I would so love to see the courts blow the entire thing out of the water.

Dee2008 on June 18, 2010 at 2:24 PM

What it’s saying is, is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase.

Ironic, isn’t it, how Barry doesn’t think it’s fair for Americans who have health insurance to be forced to pay for those who don’t have it, yet show up in our ER rooms and get health care paid for by the rest of us. Here in AZ (and other border states as well), it’s primarily illegal aliens who are doing that — yet Barry’s health insurance mandate (or tax, or whatever he’s calling it today) does not apply to illegals, and Barry is suing AZ and any other state that tries to keep illegals from setting up residence in their state and overwhelming their hospitals and other taxpayer-funded social services.

And hey, Barry, not everybody who drives a car in America has to get auto insurance either. You know which group in AZ doesn’t? That’s right: illegal aliens. They don’t register their cars here, because they don’t want to pay the vehicle taxes or have to buy the liability insurance. But they sure do use our roads, and they routinely cause accidents, which they usually run away from.

But let’s not even think about enforcing our immigration laws, because that would be raaaaacist, right Barry?

AZCoyote on June 18, 2010 at 2:38 PM

I advocate all the time that we neeed to do away with any form of witholding on all taxes from paychecks. If people had to write a quarterly check to both the Fed and the State for taxes there would be an instant tax revolt unlike any seen before.

Johnnyreb on June 18, 2010 at 1:47 PM

I converted to this mode of thinking when I had to start paying estimated tax. When you’re writing a check every three months for hundreds of dollars to be sucked down a black hole, you start advocating for tax reform pretty dang quick. Yet another reason to support a fair tax where the tax you’ve paid on something is right there on the receipt or bill of sale. It won’t be so easy to keep bumping the rates up when people see how much they’re paying.

NoLeftTurn on June 18, 2010 at 2:59 PM

Ironic, isn’t it, how Barry doesn’t think it’s fair for Americans who have health insurance to be forced to pay for those who don’t have it, yet show up in our ER rooms and get health care paid for by the rest of us…

AZCoyote on June 18, 2010 at 2:38 PM

This reminds me- and I know it’s a silly question- but I don’t suppose that ILLEGAL immigrants will also be subject to this mandatory healthcare law?

Jewels on June 18, 2010 at 3:04 PM

This reminds me- and I know it’s a silly question- but I don’t suppose that ILLEGAL immigrants will also be subject to this mandatory healthcare law?

Jewels on June 18, 2010 at 3:04 PM

They do not legally file tax returns, so no.

Freddy on June 18, 2010 at 3:18 PM

What has happened here is that the incompetant justice department is admitting that they CANNOT actually defend this mandate.

Of course, the first rebuttal to their arguement is that they are basing this new tax on a list, which is in violation of the 16th ammendment.

Freddy on June 18, 2010 at 3:21 PM

President Obama going from arguing that you can’t afford to be sick, now argues that you can’t afford to be healthy.

ajacksonian on June 18, 2010 at 3:22 PM

DOJ is pretty busy, BP, Obamacare, not wonder they were still trying to find a way to sue us in AZ

They were busy asking courts to invalidate previous laws which help[ bolster our SB1070

frakkers

ginaswo on June 18, 2010 at 3:31 PM

The third pledge Obama broke was that the IRS was not the enforcement agency for Obamacare and/or the mandate. Flush that into the Gulf as well. I don’t see how the Anti Injunction Act is constitutional. The government could impose a 100 percent tax on income and no court could entertain a suit to enjoin such levy?

eaglewingz08 on June 18, 2010 at 3:37 PM

They have no shame whatsoever.

Terrye on June 18, 2010 at 4:02 PM

If they wanted to tax those who don’t buy federally approved insurance, they would have simply provided a deduction for those who do. Instead they chose to fine non-compliance. Imagine if, instead of allowing deductions/exemptions, they decided to levy a special tax on people who don’t make charitable deductions, or who don’t borrow money for a house, or who don’t have children.

Obviously, they did not intend this to be a tax.

Dee2008 on June 18, 2010 at 4:05 PM

You can’t have it both ways O. You can’t demand it at all. It is unconstitutional.

Your JOB congress, was to make it affordable by allowing insurance to be sold across state lines and by bringing medical lawsuits under better control. That was it.

You botched it. Now repeal it and don’t waste the court’s time.

journeyintothewhirlwind on June 18, 2010 at 4:13 PM

The private sector is generally more incompetent than the public sector.

crr6 on June 12, 2010 at 12:08 PM

Facts to back this up? That is probably the most moronic thing you have ever posted, and that covers a hell of a lot of idiocy on this board. Back up your statements or begone!

riverrat10k on June 18, 2010 at 2:08 PM

Check the date on the post. crr6 said this last Saturday.

And when I asked her for credible examples to support this statement, she couldn’t be bothered to provide any.

Probably already submitting her resume to the legal team suing Arizona.

Del Dolemonte on June 18, 2010 at 4:27 PM

The Setting: The House Chamber in the U.S Capitol
The Time: Late January/Early February, 2011
The Event: State of the Union Speech
.
Let’s listen in:
.
POTUS Barack Øbummer: Ladies and Gentlemen, Good Evening!
.
The Republican contingent rises as one and screams: “YOU LIE !”

ExpressoBold on June 18, 2010 at 6:28 PM

This is a “Life” tax. Plain and simple. They can’t tax us for the air we breathe (yet), so this is the next best thing.

Gyro on June 18, 2010 at 7:38 PM

The problem with the tax argument is that they’re not requiring anyone to pay a tax, they’re requiring people to buy something. Regardless of whether you call the fine for not doing so a tax or not, the mandate to buy something is still unconstitutional.

And just what will DoJ argue that the tax is for? Existing? Living?

Obama wants to go down in history being the first president to pass a Living Tax? OK then!

Seixon on June 19, 2010 at 10:44 AM