Deficit commission may target mortgage deductions; Update: Take the poll!
posted at 1:36 pm on June 9, 2010 by Ed Morrissey
Want a tax hike that will really hit home … literally? The Hill reported yesterday afternoon that momentum has picked up for capping the mortgage-interest deduction that has incentivized real-estate purchases. It comes as the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform looks at means-testing a number of programs, including Social Security and Medicare:
The popular tax break for mortgage interest, once considered untouchable, is falling under the scrutiny of policymakers and economic experts seeking ways to close huge deficits.
Although Congress last year rejected the White House’s proposed cut to the amount wealthier taxpayers can deduct for home mortgage interest payments, the administration included it again in its 2010 budget — saying it could save $208 billion over the next decade.
And now that sentiment has turned against all the federal red ink — and cost-cutting is in vogue — Democrats on President Barack Obama’s financial commission are considering the wisdom of permanent tax breaks such as the mortgage deduction and corporate deferral. Calling them “tax entitlements,” senior Democratic lawmakers have argued they should be on the table for reform just like traditional entitlement programs Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid. …
Policymakers seeking savings have tried to cap the mortgage interest deduction before — and failed. Five years ago, a bipartisan tax reform commission created by President George W. Bush proposed ending the mortgage tax break. But the commission’s plan stalled in Congress, partly because of popular support for the mortgage deduction.
Obama’s proposal, which would cut the deduction rate for itemized expenses for those making more than $250,000 to the rate paid by the middle class, was panned last year by members of both parties. They worried about its effect, during a recession, on charitable deductions and the housing market.
Flat-tax advocates had to deal with serious opposition to the notion of eliminating the mortgage-interest deduction entirely by arguing that a flat rate was easier to administer and didn’t put one American in the position of paying another’s mortgage interest. For fair-tax advocates, the entire issue is moot when one ends the income tax altogether and instead taxes consumption. This proposal doesn’t go as far as the two broad conservative tax-reform proposals, which is probably one of the reasons a means-test is back under serious consideration for this staple tax incentive.
However, that doesn’t mean it will be simple to pass. First, assigning a “rich” label to the $250K earning level is ridiculous. That would include a lot of small-business owners who report business income in personal returns. The sudden elimination of the tax incentive will upend their financial calculations and make future home purchases a questionable and riskier venture. It might incentivize the “rich” to rent or lease property instead of purchasing it, which won’t help this residential real estate market.
Still, conservatives should consider whether the government should prop up the housing market at all with this incentive, which is in effect a redistribution of wealth to the landed. Its intent is social engineering, a task that the Right abhors in other contexts — like, say, the CRA and Fannie/Freddie virtual subsidies to the subprime market, a task which has shifted of late to FHA. Is it time to means-test the mortgage deduction or eliminate it altogether? Take the poll:










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One deduction I will never understand is the deduction for state income tax. Now that’s stupid. I like it, but it’s stupid.
Jaynie59 on June 9, 2010 at 2:36 PM
The deficit commission? A government entity reviewing what other part of the private sector that can be changed to pay the bill for a bigger government instead of looking inward at the bloated departments that are the very drains on which the deficits being investigated are mostly derived.
It’s time to watch “It’s A Wonderful Life” again and remember the premise of George Bailey’s decree to Mr. Potter.
Americannodash on June 9, 2010 at 2:41 PM
[Jaynie59 on June 9, 2010 at 2:36 PM]
State income tax deduction is a federal sop to state governments that have high taxes.
Dusty on June 9, 2010 at 2:41 PM
Jaynie, tell your sister she will probably have to start worrying about a lot more.
My mother lived in a condo, and the headaches with the condo association were enormous. Everything on the outside was their job, which meant your deck could be rotting off the side but you’d have to go through this song and dance with the condo association to – possibly – get anything done about it.
And that, on their time and on their terms.
Multiply that times any problem at all – a huge headache, a huge hassle, like as not. Much worse than just doing it yourself or hiring it done.
Plus your sister will be subject to whatever new rules the association wants to come up with, whether they are stupid and unproductive or not. More like being a serf in the castle, rather than a woman’s home is her own castle.
And in return for all this, you get to pay higher association fees whenever they decide you will. And go up they do.
Yeah, you can sit on the board of the association. IF you love petty politics, phone calls at all hours of the day and night, and headaches galore, that usually end up with nobody happy. I know this because a friend of mine was on the board of hers.
I’m sure condo living is wonderful for a lot of people. But this idea that she “won’t have to worry about all of that” is really off-base. Chances are her worries and headaches will multiply beyond her imagination.
Just my two cents . . .
Alana on June 9, 2010 at 2:42 PM
Oil Can: there is a wonderful invention called “Google”. Learn to use it:
http://genxfinance.com/2008/10/16/did-you-know-that-some-people-in-washington-are-trying-to-take-the-tax-benefits-away-from-your-401k-plan/
Old Fritz on June 9, 2010 at 2:48 PM
Oilcan here is a link. Remember that the real problem is that the government would spend the money like Social Security and issue IOU’s to your account.
chemman on June 9, 2010 at 2:48 PM
Not to mention, if you buy a house for $200,000 by the time you pay it off you have paid over $400,000 for that house. Some bargain. Mortgages are the biggest ripoff going.
NJ Red on June 9, 2010 at 2:48 PM
Exactly. It effectively subsidizes high-tax states. We should make high state income taxes as painful as possible. (And I live in such a state, Maryland.)
Attila (Pillage Idiot) on June 9, 2010 at 2:49 PM
Cr*p the link didn’t take;
http://www.dailymarkets.com/economy/2009/03/19/is-obama-going-to-nationalize-401k-plans
chemman on June 9, 2010 at 2:49 PM
Every renter pays property taxes, even if it isn’t “itemized” separate from the “rent”.
ladyingray on June 9, 2010 at 2:50 PM
State income tax? What’s that?
/Florida resident
James on June 9, 2010 at 2:52 PM
State income tax? What’s that?
TX resident.
L
letget on June 9, 2010 at 2:58 PM
The newest language that I heard from the Dems in IL involving tax hikes was additional revenue streams. I’m surprised Barry hasn’t adopted that one yet.
Illinidiva on June 9, 2010 at 2:59 PM
I live in Massachusetts, so I get to take it. Believe me, I am going to move to Florida and the fact that they don’t have an income tax is why I’m moving. Being able to deduct it sure as hell ain’t enough to keep me here.
Or maybe Las Vegas. Still trying to decide.
Jaynie59 on June 9, 2010 at 3:00 PM
If you can deduct the state tax do it, otherwise you are paying taxes(Federal) on taxes(state).
Tom
marinetbryant on June 9, 2010 at 3:01 PM
Which is why it makes the most sense of all the deductions. Otherwise, you are paying taxes on the state’s money. Paying taxes on money you never got in the first place.
Alana on June 9, 2010 at 3:06 PM
I agree. I would never buy a condo, or a house with any kind of HOA or deed restrictions. I don’t understand people who do unless it’s a beachfront or downtown loft type of thing.
City and town zoning laws are bad enough. When the Palin’s put up their fence I thought they were lucky. My town would never allow a 14 foot fence.
Jaynie59 on June 9, 2010 at 3:06 PM
The problem with changing the mortgage interest deduction is that it changes the rules of a game in progress. People made decisions based on the rules, and they need for the rules to continue until the decisions play out — which is 30 years, for a standard fixed-rate mortgage.
To change this now is equivalent to changing the allowable depreciation for an asset already purchased.
cthulhu on June 9, 2010 at 3:07 PM
I disagree. When you buy your first house, the fact that you can deduct the interest and taxes is an abstract idea. It’s not real until you have lived in the house for a whole year and then get the refund the following year.
Eliminating the interest deduction, for most people, would just affect the size of their refund.
I’m not arguing for getting rid of it. It’s my money and I want to keep it. I don’t really care why I get to keep it. I’m not a socialist.
Jaynie59 on June 9, 2010 at 3:14 PM
And, as I noted in a later post, I cannot negotiate my taxes with the tax assessor, you can negotiate your rent with your landlord, but you know you’re paying THEIR expenses as a homeowner, including taxes…
HornetSting on June 9, 2010 at 3:22 PM
Neener Neener Neeeeee-ner! But, those property taxes are killer.
HornetSting on June 9, 2010 at 3:23 PM
TN Mom on June 9, 2010 at 3:36 PM
HornetSting,
I am over 65 so I get my property taxes frozen from the last tax year. You have to get homestead also to keep the taxes down here. Not alot of TX people know about this, but those who own a home should file homestead and if over 65 get you taxes frozen.
L
letget on June 9, 2010 at 3:50 PM
letget 3/50,
You need to go to your county to get the paperwork.
L
letget on June 9, 2010 at 3:53 PM
That’s not entirely accurate. The only reason you didn’t get it is because of payroll withholding of your taxes. But that’s true of federal taxes, too. That’s also why you have to declare any state refund you get as income on your 1040.
Jaynie59 on June 9, 2010 at 4:03 PM
As anyone who has taken Economics 101 knows (unfortunately this excludes nearly everyone who is vocal about their political views, and their political views are idiotic by direct consequence), every tax, and every tax break, is distortive, and market distortions are harmful in proportion to the degree thereof.
The mortgage interest tax credit encourages over-investment in homes. Republicans tend to recognize this, except as concerns their own tax breaks (witness the difference in rhetoric with regard to agricultural subsidies between Republicans in corn-belt states and elsewhere).
“If you subsidize something, you get more of it” is a commonly-held (and correct) dictum among conservatives, but for whatever reason they opt not to apply it in this particular case. In addition to the other myriad negative consequences of over-investment in housing (illegal immigration, excessive consumption of foreign oil, snarled traffic, unaffordable housing, etc etc), one can lay part of the blame for the Great Recession at its feet–it contributed not only to the relative size of housing in the economy but also to the proliferation of shady mortgage loans (interest-only loans and $0 down mortgages, for instance, look like good deals when one considers the tax breaks).
If Republicans were to take the fiscally-responsible step of forcing Americans to pay, via taxes, for the Democrats’ programs, Americans would think twice before electing a Democratic congress. (The Democrats want to raise taxes anyway, so the negative consequences for Republicans who stopped dragging their feet regarding eliminating deficit spending would be minimal.)
hicsuget on June 9, 2010 at 4:17 PM
The mortgage interest deduction adds complexity and distortion to the tax code, and in a better tax system, wouldn’t exist.
That being said, the stupidest possible policy is to get rid of it for some people and not for others. Which is of course precisely where these commission members seem to be heading.
Chuckles3 on June 9, 2010 at 4:25 PM
As anyone checked the cost of housing in Blue States vs Red States. Many people in high cost of living blue states can only afford a home if they have their mortgage deduction. If congress takes away mortgage deductions at the same time their are giving bailouts to banks, it will make the health care townhalls look like a walk in the park.
jeannie on June 9, 2010 at 4:26 PM
Yeah, born and raised…Even with homestead, holy mackeral they’re high…but, again, you don’t have a state income tax, so it all evens out.
HornetSting on June 9, 2010 at 4:33 PM
Let’s see, the mortgage payment is already hard to make. I could rent for less, but currently get the deduction, making it breakeven. With the housing prices down, and slightly upside down on the mortgage, what will I do if the deduction goes away and the mortgage payment will be impossible to make. More options now. Short sale, lose money, foreclosure lose credit rating. Great options, huh. But I could default on the loan, wait six months to get thrown out of the house, use the money to pay off other debt, be another home in the crashing housing market, watch more banks fail because I won’t be the only one thinking this way. Yes, I think we should kill the mortgage deduction. We can all buy back in when the prices are down 75%.
Dog bites on June 9, 2010 at 4:37 PM
My mortgage tax deduction is about the only thing keeping me from strategically defaulting on my casa. Take it away, and I’l be sorely tempted to dump this pig and go rent something just as nice for half the price.
Actions have consequences.
DrW on June 9, 2010 at 5:04 PM
Montana has state income tax but no sales tax, well except for resort areas and special taxing districts. We do have high property taxes, and high auto tags fees, as well as completely incomprehensible fishing regs. But our teachers’ pensions are paid up to date.
Kissmygrits on June 9, 2010 at 5:26 PM
These clowns continue to do everything in their power to ensure economic disaster. If it isn’t deliberate, that’s an even scarier proposition.
Chewy the Lab on June 9, 2010 at 5:31 PM
Yes, it encourages home ownership which is good for the country. Home ownership gives people a real stake in their communities and the nation. It’s largely responsible for making America the kind of nation it is. All you have to do is drive by any neighborhood where people rent and compare it to a neighborhood where people primarily own to see teh stabilizing effect home ownership has.
As for the contention it encourages “over investment” I’ll simply point out the deduction applies only to your primary residence. So, if by “over investment” you mean too many people owning a home, I’d contend that is the very definition of the American dream and people fulfilling that dream is what makes America great and strong.
TheBigOldDog on June 9, 2010 at 5:56 PM
I wonder if the ‘crack team of experts’ studying mortgage deductions have even considered how the AMT works? Or even read the IRS documentation regarding the existing limits on mortgage deductions.
Since this is a news item, I suspect they simply do not have a clue about what they are doing.
Does anyone know if they even have 1 tax accountant on that board?
Freddy on June 9, 2010 at 5:57 PM
PS – no one ever washed a rental car (as the old saying goes).
TheBigOldDog on June 9, 2010 at 5:59 PM
There goes the governments small nod at the American Dream… Turds.
RalphyBoy on June 9, 2010 at 8:00 PM
Barry and the Dems will work to keep housing market even more depressed. Never mind the house is often the biggest piece of the net worth of many American.
bayview on June 9, 2010 at 9:36 PM
Diva, in case you haven’t noticed, Captain Kick Ass is usually a little late for the game. Worry not, his handlers will bring him up to speed, then in his day late dollar short style, he will claim to have been on it from day one.
He will take from you all he can, and he will expect a thank you for it.
M-14 2go on June 9, 2010 at 9:50 PM
Uh oh. Charlie Rangel will not like this at all…
TN Mom on June 9, 2010 at 11:55 PM
This may be the most ridiculous thing I’ve read.
Any financial decision I make takes into account the tax implications of that decision. It’s not some abstraction, it’s a dollars and cents equation.
Second, don’t assume everyone is a moron and waits for a refund every year. Those among us a little more astute with their finances make sure to never, ever get a refund and instead owe a little on 4/15, as to not provide the govt with an interest free loan all year.
That being said I am in favor of getting rid of the deduction. All it does is artificially increase the cost of housing by the aggregate amount of the tax deduction. It’s essentially I pay an extra $1 for a house, but the govt gives me $1 back in taxes. The only people who win are people who build and/or buy houses whose income is dependent on the value of the real estate bought and sold.
angryed on June 10, 2010 at 6:42 AM
How about driving by neighborhoods where every house is for sale and/or foreclosed? How stabilizing is that.
Nice try.
angryed on June 10, 2010 at 6:44 AM
The interest you pay is taxable income to someone else. The tax you pay to state and local governments should not be included in income, since it was already paid in tax. Pretty simple. If you are getting a large refund, you are simply giving an interest-free loan to the government – redo your W2.
Vashta.Nerada on June 10, 2010 at 10:30 AM
That has nothing to do with the home mortgage deduction and also, it’s largely a non-existent condition – a red hearing. Whereas neighborhoods where people largely rent are everywhere, especially in inner cities. Most people know them as slums or ghettos.
Foreclosures were due to a bubble that was created because money was loaned to people who never should have qualified. Lot’s of people with cheap money chasing a finite amount of homes artificially, temporarily, drove up prices. The people who defaulted were people who:
1) Purchased at the height of the bubble and became under water once prices adjusted.
2) Lost their job(s) as a result of the recession.
3) Were on the edge to begin with and never should have been able to borrow the amount they did.
Again, it has nothing to do with relatively modest housing deductions that incentives people to become real stakeholder in a community and by extension, the country.
If you want to see America turn into Europe, discourage home ownership as they do there.
Nice try.
TheBigOldDog on June 10, 2010 at 1:16 PM
I do not consider the mortgage deduction to be a deduction
I consider the mortgage deduction to be the only way to preserve income from the tax collector so maybe the poor working schmo can have a house over his head.
Theoretically, exemptions and standard decutions do that, but they preserve about enough to rent half a house trailer
For the banks to collect the big bucks on their loans, we give the schmo mortgage holder a tax break on his interest and then, theoretically take the money back at the next level, off bank earnings
Somewhere in this food chain is the market cycle which periodically de values property, at which point the schmo finds out it was never his home, the banks trade mortgages with each other for tax writeoffs, and auction the recycled houses for a pittance, which still turns out to be good money for the banks. Left in the dust is schmo, who is not even allowed to keep his own home at the auction price, but is now living in a trailor by the junkyard
In the current system, schmo deserves his mortgage decution because he paid for it in blood
entagor on June 10, 2010 at 1:58 PM
+1. $250k (at least in most of America) is not “rich”. Definitly upper-middle class…but no more. Especially if we’re talking someone who runs a small business – if you aren’t pulling in any more than that, your business is pretty small potatoes. No insult intended.
FTFY. Next time try using your head for something besides a hat rack before you post.
Dark-Star on June 10, 2010 at 2:30 PM
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