The Spirit Of Walter Duranty

posted at 12:15 pm on June 4, 2010 by Mitch Berg

In the 1930′s, New York Times correspondent Walter Duranty earned himself a place in literary infamy by whitewashing Stalin’s forced famine of Ukraine.

Ezra Klein and Matt Yglesias can at least take comfort in the fact that their junketeering whitewash of China’s authoritarian assaults on human rights has historical precedent, but will probably not lead to a Pulitzer that gets contested fifty years after their deaths:

Klein and Yglesias’ group was taken to tour a spanking-new village built on the outskirts of the northern city of Dalian. As Yglesias describes it, “back in 2006 the former “village” of rudimentary structures was razed and the government constructed a large and extremely nice park (it’s in a very scenic area), reforested the hillsides, and constructed a series of apartment complexes. The former villagers now live in modest but up-to-date structures.” But don’t worry about the forcibly displaced, Yglesias admonishes us, because, “[w]e spoke to one retired couple who was given four apartments—they live in one and rent out the other three to families who’ve either moved out to Cha’an from the central city or else moved to the area from less prosperous regions of China. The town’s current party boss said he was given five apartments.” Klein’s coverage on the website of the Washington Post was equally credulous. He informed his audience, “A conversation with some residents revealed that they didn’t just get one free apartment in the new building. They got four free apartments, three of which they were now renting out. And medical coverage. And money for furnishings. And a food stipend. And — I’m not kidding, by the way — birthday cakes on their birthdays. Sweet deal.”

The problem is, it’s not a “sweet deal” for most of the millions of Chinese displaced by development projects every years.  China has no real concept of private property; every hovel is considered state property, for the state to destroy as needed for any reason.

Big hydroelectric dam?  Millions relocated (with no documentary evidence of “sweet deals”).  Beijing holds the Olympics?  Over a million relocated.

Sweet.

Yglesias and Klein are on a junket managed and staged by a public relations firm based in Hong Kong called the China-United States Exchange Foundation. While the firm claims on its website it is a “non-government” organization, it would be impossible for it to operate without strictures imposed by the Chinese government. China has no concept of freedom of the press, and there is simply no way that the Beijing government would tolerate a group of American journalists traveling around the country with impunity. In other words, Yglesias, Klein, and their “fellow travelers” are being shown precisely what the Beijing government wants them to see. It is a non-governmental tour in name only. The fact that Klein and Yglesias report back on such obviously staged scenes without a hint of doubt raises serious doubts about their journalistic competence. The “sweet deal” that Klein alluded to above is obviously too – in fact, sickly – sweet. It is plainly obvious to anyone who knows a whit about China that they were visiting a stage-managed potemkin village.

The “Potemkin Village” – named after a Czarist minister who built a fake village to show Western visitors how well the Russian serfs were being treated (they were treated like slaves elsewhere in Russia) – is a great totalitarian tradition; dictators build a really, really nice demonstration of something controversial, to show how benign, even wonderful, it is.  Hitler even built a “Potemkin” concentration camp, Theresienstadt, to show visiting human rights dignitaries and, one presumes, the 1940′s ancestors of Klein and Yglesias, how good concentration camp inmates had it.

Sad to say, they bought it back then, too.

Leftyblogs:  Speaking “sweet deal” to power.

This post was promoted from GreenRoom to HotAir.com.
To see the comments on the original post, look here.


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The Germans used to hand out new blankets to allied POW’s the day before the Red Cross rep was to inspect the camp, only to confiscate them at the conclusion of the visit.

How dumb are Klein and Ygl to believe and write about pap like this.

Bishop on June 4, 2010 at 12:19 PM

What, Tom Friedman didn’t go too?

Doorgunner on June 4, 2010 at 12:19 PM

How dumb are Klein and Ygl to believe and write about pap like this.

Bishop on June 4, 2010 at 12:19 PM

“Wile E. Coyote… SUPER-Genius…”

Khun Joe on June 4, 2010 at 12:22 PM

Self-righteous Commie fools.

Maquis on June 4, 2010 at 12:23 PM

If you’re an American socialist, more and more, China is looking like a great model. Great prosperity, a government-friendly elite class that’s growing, a raucous nightlife in the big cities, and still, solid single-party socialist control. And, lots of organic farming. Paradise.

RBMN on June 4, 2010 at 12:26 PM

No, Mitch, the comparison is awful. Neither part of the comparison works.

The displacement is China is not good, but it’s nothing at all like the Stalinist actions.

And Klein doesn’t sound like Duranty……

I’ll have some further thoughts on China in the coming days, but there are two things to say in advance of that. First, it’s a big and complicated country, and my observations are just that: my observations. They’re not definitive judgments. Instead, they come from things I saw and people I talked to and books I’ve read. I was lucky to get a chance to go to China — which also gave me a chance to think and read about China — and my posts here are an attempt to share a bit of what I learned from the experience.

That said, my trip was organized by a group that’s sympathetic to the Chinese government, which meant we met with a lot of government officials. But meeting with Chinese government officials is, for Western journalists, a fairly ineffective form of propaganda: They don’t tell you anything, and so it’s hard for them to influence your thinking on much. What did influence my thinking a lot was a book I read, Susan Shirky’s “Fragile Superpower,” and some of the interviews I did with ex-pats and businessmen and academics. Check back tomorrow for an interview with one of them.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/06/tell_me_where_have_you_been_ar.html#more

and neither does Yglesias sound like Duranty……

Probably the two most-common experiences I had on my trip to China were either being taken to see some fancy, modern, and impressive brand-new thing and being told by official or quasi-official Chinese elites that the thing I had to understand about China was how unrepresentative all that stuff was. Since the trip was itself being directed by quasi-official elites, it all struck me as fairly paradoxical.

In China, people want you to know that their country still faces enormous problems, but they don’t really want to show you those problems.

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2010/06/china-pride-and-insecurity.php

Duranty spent something like 14 years in Russia and wrote things that were found to be falsified and unfailingly favorable to Stalin.
These guys went on a tour for a couple of weeks.

Your attempt at comparison is ludicrous… and you’re in no position to decry personal attacks after having posted this silly attempt at personally attacking Klein and Yglesias.

audiculous on June 4, 2010 at 12:27 PM

A suggestion: when you “promote” a thread from Green Room to Hot Air you might want to preserve the existing comments. Often they have started an interesting line of conversation, which is lost.

rrpjr on June 4, 2010 at 12:31 PM

sad

blatantblue on June 4, 2010 at 12:33 PM

audiculous on June 4, 2010 at 12:27 PM

Wow. HA even has it’s VERY OWN China-state-sponsored-apologist. We MUST be moving up in the world!

wearyman on June 4, 2010 at 12:36 PM

audiculous on June 4, 2010 at 12:27 PM

Instead of taking their land and starving the peasants to death, the Chinese government is just stealing the land, correct.

Still outrageous and still a whitewashing and still in the sorry tradition of the New York Times apologizing for vile, oppressive, gangster governments while never letting up for a second in denegrating and deploring Americans and our history.

NoDonkey on June 4, 2010 at 12:38 PM

China is a closed society. It is a totalitarianism.

Those two words explain absolutely everything there is to report about China.

Everything else is either propaganda or intel. And the Washington Post is not on the side of freedom.

logis on June 4, 2010 at 12:38 PM

copy someone else’s post, add hitler reference but nothing of substance – you’re on the front page!

btw, here’s yglesias:

Probably the two most-common experiences I had on my trip to China were either being taken to see some fancy, modern, and impressive brand-new thing and being told by official or quasi-official Chinese elites that the thing I had to understand about China was how unrepresentative all that stuff was. Since the trip was itself being directed by quasi-official elites, it all struck me as fairly paradoxical…

In China, people want you to know that their country still faces enormous problems, but they don’t really want to show you those problems.

potemkin bloggers indeed.

sesquipedalian on June 4, 2010 at 12:41 PM

Wow. HA even has it’s VERY OWN China-state-sponsored-apologist. We MUST be moving up in the world!
wearyman on June 4, 2010 at 12:36 PM

Don’t feel too flattered. It’s called the 50 Cent Army for a REASON.

logis on June 4, 2010 at 12:41 PM

audiculous on June 4, 2010 at 12:27 PM

So they did not spend enough time in China to prove that they are commie loving whitewashers.

Two weeks is enough time to see behind the facade.

Slowburn on June 4, 2010 at 12:42 PM

audiculous on June 4, 2010 at 12:27 PM

Perhaps.

Unfortunately for you, a lie is still a lie.

Scope may be different, but the spirit of that lie stands.

The only difference is the magnitude of the stench.

CPT. Charles on June 4, 2010 at 12:43 PM

This is the beginning of the paragraph that Berg says indicates that Klein is credulously accepting the Chinese government’s line of patter…………

The obvious question with this sort of rapid development is what happens to the people who had the shack that sat on the land where the government wanted to put condos? The answer, at least in Dalian, was that they bought the previous inhabitants off.

(emphasis is mine)

The rest is description of how far the Chinese were willing to go with the bribery. Read it in context and you can see how distorted Berg’s take is.

audiculous on June 4, 2010 at 12:43 PM

HA even has it’s VERY OWN China-state-sponsored-apologist.

Chalk another “saved or created” job up for the Obama “administration”.

NoDonkey on June 4, 2010 at 12:44 PM

[wearyman on June 4, 2010 at 12:36 PM]

LOL. No, it has two!

Dusty on June 4, 2010 at 12:44 PM

audiculous on June 4, 2010 at 12:27 PM

i should read other comments before posting.

sesquipedalian on June 4, 2010 at 12:46 PM

audiculous on June 4, 2010 at 12:43 PM

You’re right, peasants have LOTS of leverage and bargaining power when dealing with gangster thug regimes.

I mean, if they peasants didn’t take the Chinese governments most generous offer, I’m sure that the Chinese Government would have just scuttled their plans.

NoDonkey on June 4, 2010 at 12:46 PM

Two weeks is enough time to see behind the facade.
Slowburn on June 4, 2010 at 12:42 PM

If someone has any semblence of an ability to think freely, two seconds is enough.

They tell you to turn east, and you try to turn west instead… THAT is the story; absolutely everything else they shove down your throat is total, unmitigated bullsh!t.

logis on June 4, 2010 at 12:47 PM

The Yglesias and Klein defenders have a point with the strained Duranty analogy but the mealy-mouthed criticism from those two individuals about the policies of the Chinese government don’t move me. Not a bit.

Imagine if Israel had done this type of stuff? They’d go ballistic.

Yeah, they didn’t swallow all of the Chinese propaganda but their criticism of the policies are pretty hollow.

SteveMG on June 4, 2010 at 12:51 PM

Rainbows and Unicorns, Mitch. Rainbows and unicorns!

juanito on June 4, 2010 at 12:51 PM

Which model is Øbama following, China or Venezuela?

petefrt on June 4, 2010 at 12:51 PM

petefrt on June 4, 2010 at 12:51 PM

Given the state of our economy, Venezuela.

NoDonkey on June 4, 2010 at 12:55 PM

petefrt on June 4, 2010 at 12:51 PM

But just wait for Barry’s next five year plan, it will knock your socks off.

The ones that aren’t confiscated, anyway.

NoDonkey on June 4, 2010 at 12:56 PM

NoDonkey

You’re right, peasants have LOTS of leverage and bargaining power when dealing with gangster thug regimes.

You’re exactly right….they really don’t have any power to stop the plans.
That’s Klein’s story here…..the absurdity of the attempt to put a good face on it and to think that the transparent snow job would work.

Read the original article from Klein. He’s not lauding the Chinese, he’s laughing at them.

Berg missed it by a mile.

Or you could read Klein’s long and serious report to see that he’s not a real big fan of the Chinese government..

The country’s development has been terribly unequal, with the coastal cities becoming akin to a developed nation while the western interior remains mired in poverty. Slower growth could lead to political unrest, and in a one-party state, political unrest isn’t an easy problem to solve

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/06/tell_me_where_have_you_been_ar.html#more

You can bet that Berg didn’t read it.

audiculous on June 4, 2010 at 12:57 PM

They got four free apartments, three of which they were now renting out.

Sounds like they keep score the same way Kim Jong Il does while playing golf.

Shivas Irons on June 4, 2010 at 12:58 PM

If you’re going to hyper-link it, be prepared for analysis:

They think this makes them seem less threatening in a national security sense, and also militates in favor of us cutting them slack in terms of climate change, political liberalization, and various aspects of trade policy. “Give us a break,” basically.

At the same time, everyone in China is enormously proud (and rightly so) of the country’s recent progress. It’s not a “miracle” but it is true that never before in human history have so many people come so far forward as has happened in China over the past 30 years.
…and rightly so…??? Google, Yglesias, and the hundreds -if not thousands- of wardens of the indeterminate number of political prisoners and imprisoned practioners of unfavored religions, well, they all need to expound a little further on that “rightly so”.

And sesquipedelian, you’re a perfect example of a potemkin intellect.

Doorgunner on June 4, 2010 at 1:00 PM

No, Audfellow, I read it. Not that I’m in the habit of reading Klein.

It was a labored “desperate situations require desperate measures…regrettably“.

Your point is that Klein and Yglesias aren’t the same as Duranty, because he covered up worse crimes for a longer time; the dynamics of his position (as Moscow Bureau chief for the NYTimes, natch) were different than those of a couple of junketeering bloggers.

Stipulated!

That’s why I called the piece “The Spirit” of Duranty, rather than, say, “Klein and Yglesias are JUST LIKE Duranty!”.

Useful idiots come in degrees – from the innocuous fratboy junketeers to active complicity in genocide. We’re not wrong to call all of it out.

But feel free to continue to mangle context and try to jack the thread!

Mitch_Berg on June 4, 2010 at 1:03 PM

Klein writes:

The country’s development has been terribly unequal, with the coastal cities becoming akin to a developed nation while the western interior remains mired in poverty. Slower growth could lead to political unrest, and in a one-party state, political unrest isn’t an easy problem to solve

Sorry, you think this constitutes criticism of the Chinese government?

I’ll agree that it’s unfair to compare their comments to Duranty’s full-throated lies and apologies about Stalin and the famine.

But Klein’s comments about what he saw and about the polices of Beijing are hardly tough commentary.

SteveMG on June 4, 2010 at 1:03 PM

And here’s Klein’s closer:

Of course, I hope I’m quite wrong, and that China’s rise continues unabated. Why? Put simply, there are 1.3 billion people counting on this experiment. If it works, it’ll mean a remarkable rise in aggregate human living standards. And that’s well worth rooting for.

Yes, it is. But is it truly a rise in “human living” when all you’ve created is a prettier prison with a few of the prisoners being better fed?

By looking only at material achievement, without really questioning the means of production, Berg is essentially correct, and Klein merits the Duranty label.

Doorgunner on June 4, 2010 at 1:11 PM

Mitch, give me a fuggin break. You’re the guy mangling the context.

You’re the guy who jacked Klein’s quotation, putting up only the end of his paragraph and leaving off the part where he say the government bought off the people it pushed off their land.

But feel free to keep on keepin on.

I think that I must have read about two things that Klein’s ever written before you posted your distortions and I’m unlikely to ever read much more after this, as Klein seem to be an economic writer and I prefer political commentary, but you simply got this one wrong.

audiculous on June 4, 2010 at 1:13 PM

Grampa left the Ukraine in ’28 with his brothers (Mitro and Petro) and settled in the Canadian Tundra. It was hard to leave behind the village and small plot of land the three would inherit and divide, because even though they gained whole sections in Canada, they lived in worse conditions… for about 4 years while they built up their personal property, constructing houses, barns, buying tractors and combines without fear of them being confiscated by arbitrary dictates of the state.
 
Meanwhile, through correspondence with their sister who remained behind, learned that the Red Army had taken over the former Romanian provinces and imposed collectivism. One day my great aunt went to church to find it had been converted into a grain silo for export to Moscow and went behind to pray where some Russian guards found her kneeling. As an appropriate punishment, they broke her kneecaps and then her arms and then sent her off to a Gulag in Siberia. Some time in the 1960s, she was released and walked (yes, WALKED) back to the Ukraine.
 
The point is that the Holodor (Ukrainian Holocaust) was known to the world in the 1930s while it was happening, but rather than listen to humble farmers and merchants, the world chose to listen to intellectuals and idiots like Duranty, and apparently, they still do. I visited Dalian in 1989 (beautiful area of China), but the stench of oppression was obvious and the staged tours of staged villages was never convincing if you had even one eye open. Ygliesia and Klein are journalistic cowards and should perhaps consider a job typing up corporate press releases for China Inc., and other totalitarian states.

seismedia on June 4, 2010 at 1:14 PM

SteveMG

You’re right, it’s not a tough condemnation of the Chinese political system. It’s an economic piece.

My point was that berg is full of fully wrong to say that Klein’s writing in favor of the Chinese government.
That’s wrong and that’s all i wanted to show.

audiculous on June 4, 2010 at 1:17 PM

Oy, if folks think Klein is criticizing the Chinese government with these qualifiers and caveats he writes about their economic policies than they haven’t read Klein when he’s in a critical mood.

This is cotton candy stuff from him.

SteveMG on June 4, 2010 at 1:17 PM

My point was that berg is full of fully wrong to say that Klein’s writing in favor of the Chinese government.
That’s wrong and that’s all i wanted to show.

Well, I may be alone but I think you have a fair point.

Berg could have made the same argument without the Duranty analogy even if he was using the “spirit” qualifier.

SteveMG on June 4, 2010 at 1:19 PM

Wondering why 19th century socialism in America was so popular amongst working citizens, one need only recall the Robber Barons and their authoritarian deplorable working conditions in mines and factories, ALL SUBSTANTIATED BY BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES IN GOVERNMENT. Evidently, the 19th century early utopian socialists turned towards anarchy AFTER series of elections were rigged against the actual voice of the people, most Americans being laborers whether agricultural or urban.

In Russia and China, the 19th century masses were ignorant starving peasants without any rights, totally subservient to an elite and abusive class. Anything sounds better than starving when you are literally without hope.

That socialism has sought/seeks to destroy the middle class is its tell of evil, eliminating any human opportunity to better oneself.

You’ve got to go to the lonesome valley.

“Don’t be ignorant…They can hydroelectric up the whole dern state. Yes sir, the South is going to change. Out with the backward ways. Yes sir, run everybody on a paying basis…A brave new world where they see everyone run up a wiring and hook us up to a grid. Yes sir. A veritable age of reason like they had in France.”

As things played out, Egypt’s effort ended up a monumental failure, literally mocking their cradle of civilization. Their agriculturally rich delta has become wasteland without the natural course of flooding to enrich the soil. So much for considering the idealization of mechanized “progress” either beneficial or an age of reason for the masses deprived of their region’s natural agricultural food basket.

maverick muse on June 4, 2010 at 1:25 PM

The “Potemkin Village” – named after a Czarist minister who built a fake village to show Western visitors how well the Russian serfs were being treated (they were treated like slaves elsewhere in Russia)

Objection, Mr. Berg, Potemkin supposedly scrubbed up some villages to fool Catherine the Great, his boss. Western public opinion didn’t count for much in her time, but he stood to gain if she liked the way he governed that territory.

Insufficiently Sensitive on June 4, 2010 at 1:34 PM

Hey, the lefties are useful idiots to tyranny. It’s a long tradition that they are not likely to ever break.

docdave on June 4, 2010 at 1:41 PM

Epstein is way too charitable to Klein and Yglesias. Those two are no geniuses. They write this kind of worthless, far-Left, high-school newspaper-level pablum every day.

WarEagle01 on June 4, 2010 at 1:42 PM

Those two far-leftist psuedo-intellectuals probably felt right at home in communist China. We all know they would have sided with Moao over Chiang Kai-sheck. It’s good to see them both exposed. They were probably looking for good deals on Chinese real-estate after the bogus apartment stories.

OxyCon on June 4, 2010 at 1:58 PM

audiculous on June 4, 2010 at 1:17 PM

Perhaps but it’s interesting how China can do things like this, Russia can level Grozny, the Turks can murder Kurds by the score, the Syrians can level entire villages, the Iranians can shoot demonstrators in the street and we never hear anything but a level-headed, calm commentary from the likes of the Post and the NY Times, etc.

Whereas Israel? Arizona?

Full blown moonbattery in condemnation of deeds that pale in comparison to what totaliarian hellholes do to their own people around the world.

We’re just tired of it.

NoDonkey on June 4, 2010 at 2:06 PM

It is a simple fact that living conditions for most Chinese have been improving steadily over the last couple of decades.

DarkCurrent on June 4, 2010 at 2:08 PM

It is a simple fact that living conditions for most Chinese have been improving steadily over the last couple of decades.

DarkCurrent on June 4, 2010 at 2:08 PM

Rural, urban or both?

Inanemergencydial on June 4, 2010 at 2:14 PM

Insufficiently,

D’oh. You’re right. My command of Czarist trivia isn’t what it used to be.

Doesn’t change the main point, of course.

“Berg could have made the same argument without the Duranty analogy even if he was using the “spirit” qualifier.”

I could have, sure. But I didn’t. Because collaboration with tyranny comes in all sizes and temperatures, but in the end it’s always the same thing.

Mitch, give me a fuggin break. You’re the guy mangling the context.

Mangling the context of my own article? Hmmm. Interesting.

Mitch_Berg on June 4, 2010 at 2:14 PM

Rural, urban or both?

Inanemergencydial on June 4, 2010 at 2:14 PM

Both, but urban more so.

DarkCurrent on June 4, 2010 at 2:15 PM

DarkCurrent,

And the trains run on time, too!

I’m being flippant, of course. Conditions are improving; it’s just that part of that “improvement” is the wholesale walking-over of those who happen to be in the way.

That China actually feels it needs to attend to public relations is probably a big step forward, anyway…

Mitch_Berg on June 4, 2010 at 2:18 PM

Maybe they can give the Pulitzer that should have gone to The National Enquirer to the Juice Box Mafioso.

motionview on June 4, 2010 at 2:18 PM

I’m being flippant, of course. Conditions are improving; it’s just that part of that “improvement” is the wholesale walking-over of those who happen to be in the way.

Mitch_Berg on June 4, 2010 at 2:18 PM

That isn’t going to change in the short-term unless there is a r3volution, and I just do see any indication that that’s likely.

DarkCurrent on June 4, 2010 at 2:23 PM

YouTube video part 1 of 3 parts of a walk through my neighborhood, including a market area catering to the relatively poor in the area. If you watch, most of what you will see is people practicing capitalism. Parts 2 and 3 are on the sidebar there.

DarkCurrent on June 4, 2010 at 2:28 PM

These two aren’t even on a par with Herbert W. Matthews.

They’re just liberal a coupla liberal knuckleheads serving as tools for a brutal dictatorship, not trying to help the dictatorship come to power.

Akzed on June 4, 2010 at 2:43 PM

Hell CNN whitewashed Saadam for years. They gots ETHICS!

GarandFan on June 4, 2010 at 2:44 PM

It is a simple fact that living conditions for most Chinese have been improving steadily over the last couple of decades. DarkCurrent on June 4, 2010 at 2:08 PM

Google china people living in caves

I can’t nail down whether it’s 40 or 70 million people, maybe you can get an exact figure.

Akzed on June 4, 2010 at 2:50 PM

I can’t nail down whether it’s 40 or 70 million people, maybe you can get an exact figure.

Akzed on June 4, 2010 at 2:50 PM

Yeah, I see a lot of that here. /s

DarkCurrent on June 4, 2010 at 2:57 PM

One of the things that kept the Soviet government in power for so long was that the population it controlled was convinced, by the government, that living conditions were improving.

And they were, just not as fast as in capitalist hellholes like, say, West Germany.

Plus, the people in the Ukraine and other places where things weren’t getting better were either dead, threatened with death, or already staying in places like the Gulag or forced to live in closed cities where communications were rather poor.

The Soviets manipulated Western intellectuals with nice tours, lots of disinformation campaigns, high profile construction projects, the withdrawal of access if visitors didn’t toe the party line in their writing, and completely unreliable national economic statistics.

Looks like China knows a successful model when it sees one.

secant on June 4, 2010 at 2:58 PM

One of the things that kept the Soviet government in power for so long was that the population it controlled was convinced, by the government, that living conditions were improving.

secant on June 4, 2010 at 2:58 PM

I’ve lived here for just over 4.5 years and have been traveling here for about 20. Living conditions are improving, without a doubt.

That’s not to say it’s great for most people, or on par with the US standard of living, but it is improving quite noticeably.

It’s improving because of free-market reforms. China is controlled by a single-party oligarchy that still calls itself Communist, but there is capitalism all over and standards of living are improving.

DarkCurrent on June 4, 2010 at 3:04 PM

Mitch, give me a fuggin break. You’re the guy mangling the context.

Mangling the context of my own article? Hmmm. Interesting.

Mitch_Berg

No Mitch, mangling the context of Klein’s article.

But keep trying.

audiculous on June 4, 2010 at 3:11 PM

If you watch, most of what you will see is people practicing capitalism.

DarkCurrent on June 4, 2010 at 2:28 PM

Your understanding of what capitalism is appears to be severely lacking. Simplistic buying / selling is NOT capitalism.

::sighs::

Fatal on June 4, 2010 at 4:43 PM

Your understanding of what capitalism is appears to be severely lacking. Simplistic buying / selling is NOT capitalism.

::sighs::

Fatal on June 4, 2010 at 4:43 PM

Enlighten me.

DarkCurrent on June 4, 2010 at 5:50 PM

Chapter V China Property Rights:
Article 64
An individual shall enjoy ownership with respect to such real and movable properties as legitimate income, houses, living goods, production tools and raw materials.

Article 65
The legal savings, investment and returns of individuals shall be protected by law.

The State shall protect the right of inheritance and other legal rights and interests of individual.

Article 66
The legitimate properties of individuals shall be protected by law and shall not be occupied and damaged by any institution and individual.

Too bad we don’t enjoy those protections of property rights here in the USA.

Inanemergencydial on June 4, 2010 at 11:02 PM

“Wile E. Coyote… SUPER-Genius…”

Khun Joe on June 4, 2010 at 12:22 PM

Never take the name of the mighty Wile E in vain!

Random Numbers (Brian Epps) on June 4, 2010 at 11:10 PM

Inanemergencydial

as I’m sure that you’re aware, that which is written sometimes ain’t worth the parchment it’s printed on.

China’s property rights, laws and reasonable enforcement of some are as yet aspirational.

Even a grumpy pessimist such as myself wouldn’t attempt to argue that the US doesn’t yet do a better job of equitable protection of property.

audiculous on June 4, 2010 at 11:20 PM

audiculous on June 4, 2010 at 11:20 PM

my tongue was firmly planted in my cheek as I posted that.

TBS, there is no such thing as personal property rights in China, except for party members of course.

Inanemergencydial on June 5, 2010 at 12:14 AM

except for party members of course.

well, that’s a number a good deal larger than the population of Great Britain.

you would have to throw in Switzerland and the Irish Republic

audiculous on June 5, 2010 at 1:26 AM