Conservative leaders call for boycott of Comedy Central over show about Jesus
posted at 10:21 pm on June 1, 2010 by Allahpundit
It’s not clear from the story whether this is a full-blown bid to knock blasphemous material off the air or merely an attempt to get CC to drop its Muslim/Christian double standard towards blasphemy. I’m hoping that it’s the latter but assuming that it’s the former. This is precisely the scenario I was dreading in that post about Apple removing an anti-Islam app from its iTunes store: Once you start censoring yourself out of fear of Islam, you’ll inevitably be asked to censor yourself further in the interest of “even-handedness” towards other religions. How long, I wonder, before “South Park” has to black out images of Jesus in the name of fairness?
Brent Bozell (president, Media Research Center), Tony Perkins (president, Family Research Council), Michael Medved (talk radio host), Bill Donohue (president, Catholic League), Rabbi Daniel Lapin (American Alliance of Jews and Christians) and, of course, Tim Winter (president, Parents Television Council) are joining forces to form the Coalition Against Religious Bigotry…
Comedy Central’s “JC” is currently in development, which means it’s still a couple steps away from becoming a Go project. The show is about Jesus trying to live as a regular guy in New York City and wanting to escape the shadow of his “powerful but apathetic father” (more details here). With Comedy Central having recently censored frequent parenting group target “South Park” for trying to portray the Prophet Muhammad, some Christian leaders see the development of a Jesus cartoon as exhibiting an offensive double standard…
“After we reveal the vile and offensive nature of Comedy Central’s previous characterizations of Jesus Christ and God the Father, we expect these advertisers to agree wholeheartedly to end their advertising on Comedy Central and discontinue their support for unabashed, anti-Christian discrimination,” Bozell said in a statement. “Why should they be supporting a business that makes a habit of attacking Christianity and yet has a formal policy to censor anything considered offensive to followers of Islam? This double standard is pure bigotry, one from which advertisers should quickly shy away.”
Via THR, here’s a lowlight reel from “South Park” released by CARB to illustrate the problem. If the goal here isn’t really to torpedo the show but rather to highlight what fantastic hypocrites Comedy Central executives are, then full speed ahead. And maybe that is the intent; it occurs to me that if this was an anti-blasphemy group in earnest, they might have included some Muslim members to present a united ecumenical front. As it is, in the unlikely event that CC backs off on Mohammed, CARB can say, “Okay, then we withdraw our objection,” which it probably couldn’t do if Muslims were involved. But, er, what if CC actually agrees to their demand and cancels the show in order to be “even-handed”? Would CARB accept that or would it object that the remedy it wanted was for parodies of Mohammed to be shown, not for parodies of Christ to be censored? With Tony Perkins and Bill Donohue involved, presumably cancellation is acceptable. Which is an ominous precedent.
The group’s holding a presser on Thursday so reserve judgment until then. You’ll be pleased to know, meanwhile, that Facebook has finally caved to Pakistani demands by removing the “Everybody Draw Mohammed Day” page, along with assurances that “nothing of this sort will happen in the future.” Presumably “Everybody Draw Jesus Day” pages will also soon be forbidden, assuming they aren’t already.
Blowback
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Very persuasive./
Cindy Munford on June 2, 2010 at 12:10 AM
most Christian pastors sleep with preteen girls, force their members to live in a giant house, and host ‘cleansing’ services where you are forced to admit to kinky sins?
buddy, you’re losing me here. the difference is FREEDOM.
you can quit attending 1st corner baptist any week. phyiscally evacuating koresh-world? TOUGH. near-hostage-like.
battleoflepanto1571 on June 2, 2010 at 12:10 AM
Amazing. So people only existed if we have photos of them? Sorry everyone pre-photography, you just don’t exist!
And DNA? So if someone gave you a slide, told you it had the DNA of Mohammad on it, you’d believe it? Do you think if you put it under a microscope the codons will spell out “Mohammad”?
You’re hilarious, Naruto. Truly a gift.
Good Solid B-Plus on June 2, 2010 at 12:11 AM
So are some snake charmers. So are Eastern Orthodox. So are Baptists. So are Episcopalians. So are Mormons.
…and guess what? The differences are enormous. If you really would compare the average priest, preacher, or rabbi to nuts like Jim Jones and David Koresh, again, you’re either an idiot, or you could teach Bill Clinton a thing or two about lying.
You don’t have a clue about Christianity except the typical atheist talking points that have been spoon-fed to you, and a complete and utter myopia when it comes to actual research into the array of factions that exist within the largest religion in the world. Sit down and be quiet while the people who have a clue what they’re talking about discuss things, you ignorant schoolchild.
MadisonConservative on June 2, 2010 at 12:11 AM
Ugh.
MadisonConservative on June 2, 2010 at 12:12 AM
just curious, do you also believe then that:
Obama
W Bush
Clinton
McCain
Hillary
Biden
Palin
Gore
Cheney
etc etc etc are loons that you don’t need to listen to?
battleoflepanto1571 on June 2, 2010 at 12:12 AM
skydaddy on June 2, 2010 at 12:06 AM
Love it. Great story. the thing about the Bible is that it is a very personal, inner experience when you read. You are alone with your thoughts, the words, and the desires of your heart. What N-boy doesn’t understand is that God could use a megaphone, but He doesn’t. He leads us quietly home.
Kristamatic on June 2, 2010 at 12:14 AM
I’m trying to be patient. He’s inched over the line more times than I can count with his bulls**t. He can’t be far from a ban with the kind of crap he pulls.
MadisonConservative on June 2, 2010 at 12:14 AM
At this point I just laugh at him.
Good Solid B-Plus on June 2, 2010 at 12:15 AM
Well it’s anecdotal, why would I be convinced of it? You’re missing the greater point.
I’m willing to listen, but I’m not going to accept something just because you think it actually proves your case. I don’t expect that of you.
I’m very familiar with it. I grew up in a Christian household.
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 12:17 AM
I feel sort of sorry for Naruto. She has no meaning in her life. It must be lonely. No sarc. intended.
Kristamatic on June 2, 2010 at 12:17 AM
It’s these sweeping generalizations that tend to get you in trouble. Those with a Messianic complex have nothing to do with Christianity and are twisting its tenets to further a narcissistic agenda. The two couldn’t be more in opposition.
Honestly, listening to you lecture us on Christianity is like being given advice on love from a pimply-face teenager who has never kissed a girl.
John the Libertarian on June 2, 2010 at 12:17 AM
I don’t try to claim that the Bible is God’s Word. I just ask that you look at the manuscripts as any paleographer would, using the same rules:
#1: Older copies are better (since all we have are copies of copies, older copies have less chance of scribal errors)
#2: More copies are better (since you can cross-reference textual variants and suss out the likely original text)
So.
Looking at most of the Classical literature (Socrates, Aristophanes, Plato, etc.) we generally have a dozen or so copies, with an 1100 year gap from the original to the oldest copy.
With Tacitus, we have 200 copies. No serious scholar doubts that we can accurately reconstruct Tacitus’ original writings.
With Homer, we have over 600 copies, with the oldest only 500 years removed from Homer’s life.
The New Testament documents are not even in the same ballpark. We have over 5,000 ancient copies of the NT documents, not counting the citations in letters written between Church leaders in the first few centuries. (We can reconstruct almost the entire NT from those second-hand quotes.) Counting those citations there are over 15,000 ancient copies of NT texts. The oldest copy (the Rowland Fragment – a bit of John 18) dates to within 60 years of its original writing. The Sinai Codex (which has been scannon in hi-res and is online for your perusal) is a nearly complete collection of the NT writings and dates from the 2nd century.
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence,” indeed…
Now, none of that proves that the Resurrection occurred. (Proof removes doubt, and if there were no room for doubt there would be no room for faith. God desires our faith.)
But it does show that belief in the Resurrection dates to within living memory of the Event.
skydaddy on June 2, 2010 at 12:18 AM
He’s been given a lot of latitude with his habit of calling people inbred and pedophiles.
Cindy Munford on June 2, 2010 at 12:20 AM
skydaddy on June 2, 2010 at 12:18 AM
You are so cool.
Kristamatic on June 2, 2010 at 12:22 AM
You’re clueless. I won’t bother going into why I brought up Koresh and who I was comparing him to. I’ll just refer you to previous comments that you apparently didn’t read before making a buffoon of yourself – again.
What did I say about mindlessly repeating falsehoods?
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 12:22 AM
Holy s**t. Just like before when he said “trust me, I’m a student”, which he said when asked to cite something moronic that he claimed.
First of all, he said seriously explore. You apparently think seriously explore means “my parents mentioned it now and then”. Come to think of it, that’s how you consider pretty much every topic of relevance, given your arguments for most of your opinions. “I had the History Channel on while I was sleeping.”
Secondly, that doesn’t mean anything. I grew up in a Christian household, and attended eight years of Catholic school, the combination of which left me with very little reflective contemplation of Christianity. I spent a good deal of time actually studying it when I was in public school, ironically.
You have a demented and deluded idea of the concept of research and study.
MadisonConservative on June 2, 2010 at 12:23 AM
Simple question.
Why is Christianity here? After the resurrection, there were something like 20 “Christians”. Every place it’s spread, from rome to barbarian europe, it’s been first banned and outlawed. the places it spread under conquest, like native america or black africa, really only accepted it after colonialism ended (when it wasnt forced). how is it that some sect of Jews 2.0 have been able to win 2 billion hearts and minds, with a total of 0 current countries that are “Christian theocracies” (i dont count the acre of the pope’s house as a country)
Why is Christianity here?
Or — better yet — WHY ARE THE JEWISH PEOPLE STILL HERE?
Kinda funny, isn’t it? That the focus of the old & new testments — jews and christians — are not only in the world but all over the world, fulfilling every bizzare prophecy from isaiah onward.
Why are Christians everywhere, how did they get so big? Why not Mitrhaism or something>
And why are teh jews still here? Why are they back in Israel, the promised land?
battleoflepanto1571 on June 2, 2010 at 12:23 AM
He’s been given a lot of latitude with his habit of calling people inbred and pedophiles.
Cindy Munford on June 2, 2010 at 12:20 AM
Not to be a pop psychologist, but perhaps that explains things about Naruto’s life. I feel sad now. :(
Kristamatic on June 2, 2010 at 12:23 AM
Why? The pro-religious condemn other religious people to eternal suffering simply for believing in the wrong version of God. Merely making fun of the lot of you seems pretty tame by comparison.
Xrlq on June 2, 2010 at 12:24 AM
Ah.
Barna surveyed young adults a few years ago and found that 80% of those raised in Christian households left the faith by age 24. You might be among them.
Would you be willing to share some details of the belief system you were raised with? I’ve met a number of non-believers who were raised in legalistic, “it’s a sin to ask questions” fundamentalist regimes.
I can hardly blame them for rebelling; they were never really introduced to the grace and mercy of Christ.
skydaddy on June 2, 2010 at 12:24 AM
Dude, you’re talking paleography with a guy who thinks Mohammad was a fictional character. You may as well be discussing string theory with a goldfish.
Good Solid B-Plus on June 2, 2010 at 12:25 AM
I’m not in favor of bombing or beheading or even prosecuting anyone. But this is my God these worthless clowns are lampooning in a most disrespectful manner. They not only disrespect HIm, but, what is much less important, they disrespect me.
As a dedicated capitalist, I would be delighted to see these clowns driven out of business. I strongly support an absolute boycott, and hope every Christian in the the whole wide world joins it. Of course, since I never watch this stupid program or cannel, my personal boycott is unlikely to be determinative.
materialist on June 2, 2010 at 12:26 AM
Gee, you’ve dropped the Jim Jones comparison and now pretended it didn’t happen. Wonder why? Oh yeah, it showed everyone that you were talking out of your sphincter.
You explained your bigoted citation of Koresh, being that you are so ignorant of Christianity that you don’t know the difference between a Presbyterian and a Lutheran. You don’t know what you are talking about, and you’re demonstrating that aptly. You don’t know anywhere near as much as you think you do, child. The first step to wisdom is accepting that in the world of knowledge, you know nothing. You haven’t even approached that step.
Oh, and I’m an agnostic with plenty of issues about Christianity and religion in general. You, on the other hand, are nothing but a parrot repeating what people on TV and YouTube comment sections say. Put on the pointy hat and go sit in the corner, where you belong.
MadisonConservative on June 2, 2010 at 12:27 AM
Yeah, you got it. That’s how all religions are, you retarded mutant.
MadisonConservative on June 2, 2010 at 12:28 AM
Xrlq,
I don’t condemn anyone to an eternity of pain and suffering. I rather dislike the idea, frankly. But my personal exploration of the evidence leaves me few options.
I’ve concluded that by my rejection of God, I condemn myself to an eternity of pain and suffering (“hellfire” IMO being a metaphor for knowing that you missed out on The Best Party Evah). If that’s true for me, I conclude that it’s true for everyone else, since I’m nothing special.
IOW, it’s not me who’s saying that, it’s God. If you have a problem with that, feel free to take it up with Him. (I assure you, you *will* have the opportunity.)
skydaddy on June 2, 2010 at 12:30 AM
Never mind then. I thought you were going to prove that the Bible is God’s word. In many ancient cultures, such as the Egyptians, there are drawings depicting alien life forms. That doesn’t automatically prove that they were visited by ancient astronauts. You acknowledge that this isn’t necessarily proof, so good.
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 12:30 AM
Christians won’t watch. Muslims will blow you up. And fairness to you is getting the same response from South Park?
Ronnie on June 2, 2010 at 12:32 AM
Nobody here likes you.
Go away.
You-Eh-Vee on June 2, 2010 at 12:32 AM
Let’s see if you’ve actually know what you’re talking about. Here’s your text: Without going back and looking, xplain the context behind me bringing up Jim Jones.
Go ahead. This should be interested.
You like talking about sphincters I see. Whatever excites you I say.
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 12:32 AM
No.
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 12:33 AM
How do you prove it? what’s your criterion?
battleoflepanto1571 on June 2, 2010 at 12:35 AM
B-plus, that’s as may be, but I’m an educator. By nature I assume that ignorance can be cured by education and patience.
Sadly, some strains of ignorance are strongly resistant to the cure.
skydaddy on June 2, 2010 at 12:36 AM
If you were God, you wouldn’t do it that way. And this proves that there must not be a God.
I hear this from atheists/agnostics all the time: You have some notion of what you think God should do, and since God doesn’t, there must not be a God.
The real problem is that you need to realize that God is under no obligation to behave as you expect or demand.
God’s position can be found in Luke 16:31: “If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.”
The real problem is a refusal to believe. More evidence will not fix it.
There Goes The Neighborhood on June 2, 2010 at 12:38 AM
Why wouldn’t they still be here? It’s a religion, and like any other religion, it gets passed down from generations and generations of people. There are also still pagans in the world. There are also still non believers. This proves nothing.
Your argument is that because it survived all of this time, means it must be authentic. Not buying that argument.
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 12:39 AM
It’s been interesting friends- have a good night. Naruto, I hope you can find some inner peace.
Kristamatic on June 2, 2010 at 12:41 AM
You really should reconsider. I suggest taking a walk or reading a book.
They say that stubborn, confrontational assholes who troll blogs for kicks usually carry the same ugly characteristics away from the computer too.
Nice for your family, I’m sure.
Oh well.
Cheers.
You-Eh-Vee on June 2, 2010 at 12:42 AM
You’ve already misstated/misrepresented my entire position and beliefs. No reason to engage you in a discussion.
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 12:42 AM
Did you have a point?
I already said that I’m not going to attempt to prove that Bible is God’s Word.
It’s not necessary. In fact, I think it’s a huge waste of time.
I did not became a Christian because I first believed that the Bible is God’s Word.
I believe that the Bible is God’s Word because I first became a Christian.
And I became a Christian because after logically examining the evidence I convinced myself that Jesus literally, historically, really-and-truly did rise from the grave.
Accepting the truth of that historical event did not make me a Christian, BTW.
What made me a Christian was my response to the question, “SO WHAT?”
skydaddy on June 2, 2010 at 12:42 AM
Night all — Naruto, i’m still confused what criteria/proof you are wanting about the Bible. The fact that the best selling book of all time, the first book ever printed, the most banned book in the world, the most quoted book in the world, means jack squat? okay. just curious what your conditions are.
Anyways, goodnight.
battleoflepanto1571 on June 2, 2010 at 12:44 AM
You haven’t grown up yet Zit Boy.
thomasaur on June 2, 2010 at 12:45 AM
skydaddy, I’ve enjoyed your posts. You remind me of one of my favorite Christian apologists, Gary Habermas. God bless.
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on June 2, 2010 at 12:45 AM
I don’t even think of South Park’s Jesus Christ as the Jesus Christ from the Bible. Perhaps it’s easy for me, as an atheist, to see it that way though. The South Park JC is just an irreverent caricature whereas the Christ of the Bible is a serious philosopher (again, in my non-believer interpretation). Irreverence is a major part of comedy, so there is always bound to be something at some point to offend someone.
One of many principles of Christianity that I admire is that of free will. If this CARB group believes in free will, why do they seek to force their belief/will upon others? If it offends, don’t watch. Same with the Muslims. Same with atheists who act offended by people who pray around them – just mind your own beeswax and try going about life without the stick up your behind. :)
EarthToZoey on June 2, 2010 at 12:46 AM
It’s sad that people actually believe that this is even remotely close to proof.
I didn’t know popularity and the ability to inspire proved authenticity. Amazing.
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 12:47 AM
And there you have it folks. Christian folks who get offended threatan an economic boycott – a time tested and traditional method of dissenting against offensive behavior. Folks from the Religion of Peace, on the other hand, riot theatan violence, and in many cases commit violence and murder over what they deem offensive. The contrast could not be more stark.
dczombie on June 2, 2010 at 12:47 AM
He didn’t:
Psalm 19:
” 1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they display knowledge.
Romans 1:18-22
” 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools…”
skydaddy on June 2, 2010 at 12:47 AM
I believe that the universe and everything in it was created by Something. Atheists believe it was all created by nothing. The key word in both of our creation myths (heh) is ‘believe’. Neither of us has ‘proof’ that would hold up in court or at the IPCC…er….wait…at MIT. Maybe the existence of God is illogical, I dunno, but certainly not any more illogical than saying that something came from nothing.
Going further, I believe that the “Something” that created the universe is God. The rest of it – Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Paganism, Cargo Cultism, Rastafarianism, whatever – is just details, ‘inside baseball’, so to speak. OK, I think my group is on the right track, sure, but, fundamentally (again, heh), us ‘religionists’, we all agree that there is a creator/are creators.
Now, accepting for the moment – for the sake of argument – that He created, out of nothing, the universe and everything in it, I think is quite a feeble objection for folks to make that God couldn’t come up with a plan to make Himself undetectable, except by faith.
Knott Buyinit on June 2, 2010 at 12:49 AM
Oh, I’m sorry. What childish name do I need to call you before I’m all growed up like you, thomasaur? Poopie-head?
Hilarious.
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 12:49 AM
1.CC appeases mohamet follower rage.
2.CC might run a cartoon that mocks JC.
3.Christians get another chance to share the gospel.
FTW!
Inanemergencydial on June 2, 2010 at 12:50 AM
You realize you just quoted the Bible to prove that God didn’t leave it up to the Bible to show himself?
I’m at a loss for words now.
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 12:51 AM
Kristamatic, Aslan’s Girl, many humble thanks. Apologetics is a hobby of mine (and dare I hope a spiritual gift?) I was hugely influenced by C.S. Lewis, especially Mere Christianity. I’m doing a two-hour seminar next week for a group of camp counselors on these very ideas – I covet your prayers.
skydaddy on June 2, 2010 at 12:51 AM
Just by responding proves my point.
thomasaur on June 2, 2010 at 12:52 AM
What can prove authenticity to a rube who thinks Mohammad and Jesus were fictional characters?
Good Solid B-Plus on June 2, 2010 at 12:52 AM
The one on the top of your head or the argument you haven’t yet made?
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 12:53 AM
I don’t believe in men who dwell in big fishes either. I know, how crazy am I, right?
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 12:55 AM
Mere Christianity is a wonderfully powerful, simple book. Lewis was a master.
Are you familiar with Habermas? I saw him in a debate with Antony Flew and he uses the same methods you do. I loved when he compared the texts we have of other historical figures to the texts we have of Christianity. He was proving the resurrection in a very historic, methodical way.
My prayers will be with you, God bless!
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on June 2, 2010 at 12:55 AM
“Historic” = “Historical”, pimf.
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on June 2, 2010 at 12:56 AM
Do you really?
blink on June 2, 2010 at 12:56 AM
Even better, I’m not even citing the Bible as an argument-from-authority, but rather as a golly-gee-the-Bible-backs-up-this-commonsense-notion.
:-D
See, God is bigger than the Bible. Way bigger. He shows Himself in His Word, sure. But He also shows Himself in His Work. Any apparent conflict between the two is either a failure of theology (imperfect interpretation of God’s Word) or a failure of science (imperfect interpretation of God’s Work). Or, more likely than not, both; given the frail, fragile, fallible, and fallen nature of the human mind.
skydaddy on June 2, 2010 at 12:56 AM
Aslan’s Girl, I’ll have to look up Habermas. Sounds like a kindred mind. :-) (Didn’t Anthony Flew recently acknowledge that atheism was an untenable position?)
skydaddy on June 2, 2010 at 12:59 AM
No, this is pretty much the core of it. It doesn’t matter how much evidence you’re given, or how reasonable the arguments. You reject a belief in God for your own internal reasons, then rationalize your unbelief as the only possible position. But for all that, you’re not content with your unbelief. It doesn’t satisfy. Which is at least one reason why you argue about it so much.
You are right about this much, though. Discussion won’t change your mind. Neither will logic, or evidence, or testimony.
But with God all things are possible.
There Goes The Neighborhood on June 2, 2010 at 1:00 AM
I do. I can even name a couple of them: Michael, Gabriel…
:-D
skydaddy on June 2, 2010 at 1:00 AM
Learn the definition of condemn.
I’m not condemning you to the bench simply because I think the coach will bench you for blowing off softball practice.
blink on June 2, 2010 at 1:00 AM
Please disprove the existence of Mohammad. There are hundreds of non-Koranic sources regarding his life. You have….oh yeah, 0 sources for your assertion that he’s as fictional as Superman.
Good Solid B-Plus on June 2, 2010 at 1:00 AM
This is another thing that Christians do. Ask them for evidence and then they started citing the Bible. Then they start saying things like, “God did this, God said this, God knows that, God, God, God.” Like you know this for a fact. I’m sure they have some fancy term for this type of argument.
You are going by what a book says and that is all. Nothing more, nothing less. Every position you take falls back on what that book says. I could respect you a lot more if you could just own up to that, instead of claiming something else.
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 1:03 AM
The story of a world wide flood and a man who saved humanity appears in lots of places, including different religions. Same with most Biblical stories. I still don’t believe that Noah existed, nor do I believe in talking snakes.
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 1:06 AM
Every major Christian apologist and debater acknowledges the existence of Mohammad, though they deny he was a prophet. Over a billion Muslims think he existed. There are hundreds of textual sources regarding his life. The onus is on you, genius. Disprove all of the sources, especially the non-Koranic ones, that have established the existence of Mohammad in 7th century Arabia.
Here, you can warm up by disproving the existence of Socrates. Should be much easier, since there’s much less textual evidence that he existed.
Good Solid B-Plus on June 2, 2010 at 1:11 AM
Disprove the existence of Big Foot. There have been hundreds, if not thousands of sitings around the world, dating back centuries. Do you think that myths don’t spread around and become accepted belief over time? There are lots of accounts from people who have handled it, stating that the Shroud of Turin is really the cloth that Jesus was wrapped in. I don’t believe it on the basis that a lot of other people believe it’s true.
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 1:12 AM
Once you actually post one.
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 1:13 AM
I’ll make it very simple for you good solid b plus. Find me a non-Koran source of someone who witnessed Mohammed slaughtering a rival group of tribesmen. Of Mohammed just being Mohammed. Give me that source.
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 1:17 AM
So why do you believe that Ramses, Plato, Constantine, Charles Martel, Julius Caesar, or Sun Tzu existed?
Oh yeah, because you pick and choose what to believe and what to call “myth.” You’re a riot.
Good Solid B-Plus on June 2, 2010 at 1:17 AM
With all the comments he brings, both all his and all those in response to him, I doubt if Hotair would want to take the revenue drop. With him even in this not exactly front page news thread there are about 300 comments. Without Loony Tunes Boy, maybe 100?
Tav on June 2, 2010 at 1:18 AM
We all pick and choose what we believe, including you, whether or not you want to admit it. I choose to believe in those figures. I choose not to believe in talking snakes.
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 1:19 AM
They say that arguing with a pig just wastes your time and annoys the pig. Arguing with Loony Tunes Boy wastes your time but gives him the closest thing he will probably ever have to an orgasm.
Tav on June 2, 2010 at 1:21 AM
What is wrong with boycotting Comedy Central over this show because it offends Christians? There is a big difference between boycotting and threatening violence. Boycotts occur all the time. Comedy Central is free to run the show without fearing for the lives of any employees.
The right to offend isn’t so sacred that those who are offended should shut up. Rather, those who are offended shouldn’t try to stop the speech by violent threats.
darii on June 2, 2010 at 1:22 AM
But you see, the difference is, I don’t go around claiming that I know for a fact he existed. Because I don’t I can only go by what I read with him. You, on the other hand, take what you read and present it as the Word, like you do with the “Word” itself.
Narutoboy on June 2, 2010 at 1:24 AM
Here’s list of all the early Sirah writers, in addition to the original Sirah Rasul Allah:
Az-Zubayr ibn Al-Awam , the husband of Asma bint Abi Bakr Urwah ibn Zubayr, grandson of Abu Bakr and the younger brother of Abdullah ibn Az-Zubayr. Abaan ibn Uthman ibn Affan, the son of Uthman wrote a small booklet. Al-Sha’bi. Wahb ibn Munabbih. Hammam ibn Munabbih, a student of Abu Hurayrah Asim Ibn Umar Ibn Qatada Al-Ansari Ibn Shihab Az-Zuhree or Imam Al-Zuhri Musa Ibn Uqba, pupil of Al-Zuhri Muhammed Ibn Ishaq, author of Sirah Rasul Allah, much from oral sources, the first “biography” of Muhammad. Ma’mar Ibn Rashid Al-Azdi, pupil of Al-Zuhri Abdul Rahman ibn Abdul Aziz Al-Ausi, pupil of Al-Zuhri Muhammad ibn Salih ibn Dinar Al-Tammar was a pupil of Al-Zuhri and mentor of Al-Waqidi. Ya’qub bin Utba Ibn Mughira Ibn Al-Akhnas Ibn Shuraiq Al-Thaqafi Hashim Ibn Urwah ibn Zubayr, son of Urwah ibn Zubayr, generally quoted traditions from his father but was also a pupil of Al-Zuhri. Abu Ma’shar Najih Al-Madani. Al-Makhzumi. Ali ibn mujahid Al razi Al kindi. Al-Bakka was a disciple of Ibn Ishaq and teacher of Ibn Hisham and thus forms a very important link in Sira between two great scholars. Abdul Malik Ibn Hisham, his work incorporated the text of Ibn Ishaq; he was a pupil of Al-Bakka. Salama ibn Al-Fadl Al-Abrash Al-Ansari, pupil of Ibn Ishaq. Al-Waqidi, whose only surviving work is “Kitab alTarikh wa al-Maghazi” (Book of History and Campaigns) Abu Isa Muhammad Al-Tirmidhi wrote compilations of Shamaail (Characteristics of Muhammad) Ibn Sa’d wrote the 8-volume work called Tabaqat or The Book of the Major Classes; he was also a pupil of Al-Waqidi. Imam Al-Bayhaqee ,wrote Dalial An-Nabuwwah (Argument for Prophet hood). Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari wrote the well-known work History of the Prophets and Kings, whose earlier books include the life of Muhammad, which cite to the Sira Rasul Allah of Ibn Ishaq.
Add to that the Hadiths. such as Sahih al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Sunan an-Nasa’i, Sunan Ibn Maja, Kitab al-Kafi, and about 100-200 others of less importance. Oh, then add in the writing of Sebeos and the Doctrina Jacobi. Oh, and for the hell of it, The Koran.
Good luck, sport, you’ve got a LOT of reading to do.
Good Solid B-Plus on June 2, 2010 at 1:27 AM
Sure, and you can choose to believe that the sun is made of cottage cheese and the sky is orange. You’d be wrong, though. Just like you’re wrong about Mohammad not being a real historical figure.
Good Solid B-Plus on June 2, 2010 at 1:29 AM
And do you have a problem with people who claim that they know for a fact that Ramses existed?
Do you have a problem with people who claim that they know for a fact that evolution is fact?
What relevant beliefs do you claim as fact or take on faith?
blink on June 2, 2010 at 1:29 AM
What are your epistemological conditions for certitude? Do you believe that we can ever have certainty about anything or only probable reasons to hold to a position?
darii on June 2, 2010 at 1:32 AM
Narutoboy,
Your “Bigfoot” response shows why this is such a difficult forum for a reasoned conversation. This format makes it far too easy to conflate inductive and deductive reasoning. And, I confess that I’ve made things more difficult by using both at the same time, though in response to different arguments.
So in the immortal words of Our President, Let Me Be Clear:
I DO NOT expect you to believe ANYTHING I say just because the Bible says so. I fully accept that you do not believe in the authority of Scripture.
That is why I appeal to reason. (I note, though, that you have had no response to the posts on the validity of the New Testament texts as historical documents.)
HOWEVER.
It must be blatantly obvious to all but the most blatantly and deliberately obtuse that when discussing what the Bible says about the nature of God, Man, and the relationship between them, that the Scriptures OBVIOUSLY are the go-to reference material.
skydaddy on June 2, 2010 at 1:39 AM
Bingo
darii on June 2, 2010 at 1:41 AM
AP, I think the difference between the 2 “protests” is that the latter won’t include threats of beheading infidels…
Gohawgs on June 2, 2010 at 1:46 AM
OhAnByTheWay, I don’t claim to “know for a fact” that Jesus rose from the dead.
In fact, I freely admit that my belief that He did is falsifiable. Just produce the body. A null hypothesis, if you will.
Try THAT test with any other worldview, nihilism included. :-D
B+, good info. No serious scholar doubts the existance of Mu’hammd as an historical figure.
In case some readers don’t know, many Arabic prefixes are closely related to their Hebrew counterparts: Ibn- / bin = “son of” (eqiv to Hebrew “bar”). Abu- = “father of” (eqiv to Hebrew “‘ab”or “ab’ba”. Al- = “of” (eqiv to Hebrew “yam/ya’/yom”).
skydaddy on June 2, 2010 at 1:52 AM
Thank you, thank you. *bows*
skydaddy on June 2, 2010 at 1:53 AM
Narutoboy, have you actually read the Bible? If not, how can you claim it’s not what people purport it to be?
I’m guessing Narutoboy has not read the Bible, thus has no idea their is archeological evidence of many of the events and places written about in the Bible.
Fed45 on June 2, 2010 at 1:53 AM
Yup, though as a slight correction, we usually use “ben” for “son of.” Bar means “son” in Aramaic, which is why boys have Bar Mitzvahs (means “son of the commandment”), but my Hebrew name is “Shmuel ben Baruch.”
Good Solid B-Plus on June 2, 2010 at 2:07 AM
I have spent my entire life studying religion both academically (I have an MA in Comp. Religion) and as an active participant in several and I came up with an answer to the atheistic crutch question:there are so many religions, they can’t all be true and so how can you believe in any of them? I have an answer: You have to study and, using your mind and heart, you, as a solitary person in the field of living, have to conciously choose what you believe has the most credibility and benefit for your life and the world. Yes, one has to choose. And, as the knight in the last Indiana Jones warned, you must choose wisely.
The banal dismissals you see atheists spewing are easily handled by the well thought out religious scholar. Those sillinesses are the easy questions. Yes, people often believe for reasons of habit and upbringing without much reflection, but that is their problem. Our common human problem is how to make sense of life and death and suffering and the meaning of their existence in our journey. Science can never provide meaning as it is only a methodology of studying the natural world. Religion, properly engaged in, brings its adherents into new worlds of inspiration, insight, and joy — all life affirming and renewing qualities. Science cannot provide these. And by the way, the morality that atheists think is so logically sensible (and needing no divine commandments), arose from a world where God exists. And it is so second nature to the athiest today that he or she doesn’t even understand from where it came or even understand that it can be lost in a generation due to the rejection of the religious world that gave birth to the values they cherish. Fools attempt persuasion with contempt and a smarter-than-thou attitude. The wise just humbly keep to on the path they have chosen and become an example of their precious choice.
mbabbitt on June 2, 2010 at 2:08 AM
Free markets fix all.
ButterflyDragon on June 2, 2010 at 2:13 AM
I despise how bloggerpundit whines about them actually trying to boycott to get this material off the air. Why do companies advertise during these hateful discriminating shows? It is freedom of speech to speak out against these people and the companies who support their prejudice. Last I checked religous discrimination by a company is against the law.
PrezHussein on June 2, 2010 at 2:39 AM
I only scanned the comments, but let me guess-Narutoboy took over yet another thread, offending the Christians here among us, and I probably missed it, but I am sure inbred Southerners are somehow to blame. Lather, rinse, repeat. I’m so over this.
di butler on June 2, 2010 at 2:44 AM
Many words yet nothing said.
whiskeytango on June 2, 2010 at 2:53 AM
The Everybody Draw Mohammed page is up. I have it open in another window right now.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Everybody-Draw-Mohammad-Day-May-20th-2010/120352401315688
deewhybee on June 2, 2010 at 3:40 AM
LOL our world is all about FEELINGS now
Ugly on June 2, 2010 at 3:42 AM
Furka durka murkle
Ugly on June 2, 2010 at 3:43 AM
Huh?
“Al” in Arabic means “the”. Examples:
- The Arab paper “Al Ahram” means “The Pyramids”
- The Islamic terrorist organization named “Al-Qaeda” means “The Base”
In Hebrew there is no separate word for “the”. A word is prefixed with “hah” (the Hebrew letter “hey”) to accomplish this. Examples:
- “Hah’olam” means “the world”
- “Hah’seffer” means “the book”
The word “yom” (rhymes with “mom”) that you mentioned means “sea” or “ocean”. The word “yome” (rhymes with “home”) means “day”.
The English word “of” is “shel” in Hebrew. Example:
- “Yerushalayim shel zahav” is “Jerusalem of gold”
The word “al” (beginning with the Hebrew letter Ayin – not Aleph) in Hebrew means “of” or “about” or “regarding” or even “upon”. Examples:
- “dihbehr al atzmo” means someone “spoke of/about/regarding himself”
- “Yadayim al hah’rosh” means “hands on your head”
Shy Guy on June 2, 2010 at 4:02 AM
Yeah, well when someone identifies himself with a Japanese cartoon about magic ninjas which is aimed at adolescents, whaddaya expect?
darii on June 2, 2010 at 4:35 AM
Someday boy you will confess that Jesus is Lord ANSI hope you have a relationship with Him before you die. it seems that you are lost and grabbing at straws to prove your atheistic point. you have nothing to gain and everything to lose with your current beliefs.
garydt on June 2, 2010 at 4:40 AM
Amen, sister!
That makes 2 of us.
HA has become Cartoonboy Air.
Meh.
Jenfidel on June 2, 2010 at 4:53 AM
You do realize that your concept of the “day of reckoning” when the master comes is very equivocal, right? You have your god as does every culture. What makes you think that you’re correct and the rest of the world is not? Belief? You make a wager that cannot be reconciled. Athiests have no point to prove due to the fact that the religious would have to prove their point first. That is the whole jist of Atheism.
whiskeytango on June 2, 2010 at 4:57 AM
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