New video: Flotilla passengers attack Israeli troops

posted at 2:28 pm on May 31, 2010 by Allahpundit

Via the IDF’s blog. Ed already posted video taken from above the ship as Israeli troops rappeled down but this one’s shot from alongside so there’s more detail. Have a look as the Forces of Peace shift into full-on mob mode, dragging the soldiers to the ground before they’re even on the deck and swinging for the fences with huge metal poles. Some of the IDF personnel involved later described it as a “lynching,” which sounded dubious to me at first but not anymore. That’s what it looks like.

“They beat us with metal sticks and knives,” he said. “There was live fire at some point against us.”…

One of the commandos said some of the soldiers were stripped of their helmets and equipment and a several were tossed from the top deck to a lower deck, forcing them to jump into the sea to escape.

“They jumped me, hit me with clubs and bottles and stole my rifle,” one of the commandos said. “I pulled out my pistol and had no choice but to shoot.”

I’m not sure if he’s referring to a paintball rifle — which, incredibly, some of the troops were armed with in order to avoid a lethal encounter — or the real thing, but according to the Jerusalem Post, the mob managed to wrestle at least two handguns away from the troops. It looks like Ynet’s account, which Ed linked earlier but which you should absolutely read in full, was spot on: The IDF really thought they were facing off with “peace activists” here and didn’t realize their miscalculation until they were on the boat. (See the third clip below for just how badly they misjudged.) The argument from the left is that the raid was illegal because it happened in international waters, but evidently that’s not true either: If a neutral ship is intent on running a blockade after being warned to turn back, the fact that it’s on the high seas isn’t a defense. Apparently Israel was either supposed to let the ships run the blockade, not knowing for sure who or what was on board, or instruct their troops to let the passengers crack their skulls open with lead pipes once they were on the deck in the interests of “dialogue” or something.

The UN Security Council is holding an emergency meeting as I write this, which is interesting since, to my knowledge, it has yet to meet to condemn the North Korean attack on that South Korean ship that’s had the far east inching towards a war footing for months. Netanyahu has already canceled his scheduled trip to the White House tomorrow, ostensibly because he needs to be back home to deal with the crisis but likely because Obama doesn’t want to be forced into an awkward photo op before all the facts are out. I’m awfully curious to see how the U.S. votes on the inevitable UN condemnation of the raid, as relations between America and Israel are already falling apart over the U.S.’s endorsement of a nuclear-free Middle East. That policy won’t do a lick of good to stop Iran but it will catalyze Muslims opposition to Israel’s arsenal, a master stroke which Richard Fernandez describes thusly: “Like a circular-running torpedo it managed to miss its every intended target — missing North Korea and Iran — while hitting Israel.” Read his whole post, as I think he’s right on about a central irony of Obama’s falling out with Netanyahu. A basic assumption of The One’s foreign policy strategy, at least during the campaign, was that dialogue can reduce international tensions by assuring that isolated states don’t act rashly in desperation. Fernandez’s point: Is further isolating Israel when it’s already desperate over Iran’s nuclear program and Hezbollah’s missile capacity a wise idea? We’re about to find out, I think.


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Yes, he’s joking.

Allahpundit on May 31, 2010 at 3:43 PM

Is this what it feels like to be pwned for the first time by Iowahawk?

turfmann on May 31, 2010 at 3:46 PM

ernesto on May 31, 2010 at 3:03 PM

The electrons would appreciate it if you didn’t waste their energy for your useless comments. You really need to end your addiction to sucking on the teat of big energy.

chemman on May 31, 2010 at 3:50 PM

I’m sure the UN & Obama (sorry for the redundancy there) will condem the “activists” once they watch these videos. And they will watch them, right after they read the AZ law.

KS Rex on May 31, 2010 at 3:50 PM

I see most of the EU supporting the Turks in any NATO meeting.

clnurnberg on May 31, 2010 at 3:51 PM

Ernesto,

What would the U.S. response be if a group of ships announced they were going to breach our waters and drop supplies (that we had no way of verifying) off on the eastern seaboard?

What would our response be if they ignored repeated warning to pull into a naval port and have their cargo inspected, but instead announced they were going to run a naval blockade?

What would we do if, after Coast Guard personnel boarded the ships, they were attacked with knives, metal poles and guns?

Now ask yourself why your answer does a 180 when you substitute the Israelis into the scenario.

BadgerHawk on May 31, 2010 at 3:52 PM

chris999 on May 31, 2010 at 3:24 PM

Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

chemman on May 31, 2010 at 3:52 PM

Words like that make someone like happyfeet look like a mosquito.

turfmann on May 31, 2010 at 3:39 PM

By a man’s finger-nails, by his coat-sleeve, by his boots, by his trouser-knees, by the callosities of his forefinger and thumb, by his expression, by his shirt-cuff – By each of these things a man’s calling is plainly revealed. That all united should fail to enlighten the competent inquirer in any case is almost inconceivable.

semloh on May 31, 2010 at 3:52 PM

I’m sure the UN & Obama (sorry for the redundancy there) will condem the “activists” once they watch these videos. And they will watch them, right after they read the AZ law.

KS Rex on May 31, 2010 at 3:50 PM

Yeah, just like the Democrats did after the LA riots…

Skywise on May 31, 2010 at 3:52 PM

No doubt it was an ambush, but the Israelis really should have waited til they were out of international waters.

abobo on May 31, 2010 at 3:52 PM

Great job of covering this today, Allah, here and on Twitter.

Unfortunately, the left doesn’t want to know the truth of what happened; this is an opportunity for Israel-bashing that they don’t intend to waste.

Nichevo on May 31, 2010 at 3:53 PM

Jones Zemkophill on May 31, 2010 at 2:40 PM

Hate to say it but you’re right. There’s no point in trying to take prisoners or be reasonable with these people.

xax on May 31, 2010 at 3:53 PM

Skywise on May 31, 2010 at 3:46 PM

You know that whole thing about arguing with a pig? It just wastes your time and annoys the pig. Left-tards couldn’t care less if it’s guns or grits on that ship only that it’s bad for the Jews. Anti-Semitism is a big part of being a left-tard.

Mojave Mark on May 31, 2010 at 3:54 PM

ernesto Che on May 31, 2010 at 3:03 PM

Akzed on May 31, 2010 at 3:55 PM

Shockah! Obambi hates Israel and so does his interweb troll army.

reaganaut on May 31, 2010 at 3:55 PM

They want martyrdom?
I say send the pigs on their way. And don’t do it with paintball guns.

Handel on May 31, 2010 at 3:55 PM

BadgerHawk on May 31, 2010 at 3:52 PM

You’re trying to reason with him. What are you thinking?

Akzed on May 31, 2010 at 3:56 PM

BadgerHawk on May 31, 2010 at 3:52 PM

There’s really not a better way to address that post.

anuts on May 31, 2010 at 3:58 PM

abobo on May 31, 2010 at 3:52 PM

In your opinion how would that have changed any of the responses to this?

chemman on May 31, 2010 at 3:58 PM

I see most of the EU supporting the Turks in any NATO meeting.

Wouldn’t really matter. NATO is the Delian League and the United States is Athens.

What matters is what Obama is prepared to greenlight.

aengus on May 31, 2010 at 4:01 PM

turfmann on May 31, 2010 at 3:39 PM

Put Aleph’s Arabic through Google Translate.

baldilocks on May 31, 2010 at 4:03 PM

We need to stand with Israel. This is proof that Obowmao is an antisemite.

Laura in Maryland on May 31, 2010 at 4:03 PM

This is proof that Obowmao is an antisemite.

What is?

aengus on May 31, 2010 at 4:05 PM

You have no clout
You better not try
You better watch out, I’m telling you why.
The Twelfth Imam is Obama and he has come to Washington town

Abandoning Israel is on list
And he’ll betray America too, and more than once or twice
Good Muslims may die
But will go to paradise
The Twelfth Imam is Obama and he has come to Washington town

He knows if you’re a Christian
He knows if you’re a Jew
He knows if you’re an in-fi-del
He knows if you are a Tea Partier
He’s been told by Allah just what to do

So….You have no clout
You better not try, I’m telling you why.
The Twelfth Imam is Obama and he has come to Washington town
The Twelfth Imam is Obama and he has come to Washington town

Aleph on May 31, 2010 at 4:06 PM

This vid raises one question for me. At the end the IDF using paintball guns seemed to have been able to rally their forces and present a defensive position. The vid stops before the shooting starts so I’d want to see what happened next. The troops look in control of their own space. Did the Hamas forces renew the assault? Were the Israelis unable to land reinforcements?I’d like to see the next installment.

xkaydet65 on May 31, 2010 at 4:09 PM

baldilocks on May 31, 2010 at 4:03 PM

Thank you. I’d forgotten all about that feature.

Laura in Maryland on May 31, 2010 at 4:13 PM

Now ask yourself why your answer does a 180 when you substitute the Israelis into the scenario.

BadgerHawk on May 31, 2010 at 3:52 PM

Ernesto’s answer would not do a 180 if all the US commandos were Jewish.

sdd on May 31, 2010 at 4:14 PM

The argument from the left is that the raid was illegal because it happened in international waters, but evidently that’s not true either:

Is it me or does “the left” argue against decency and right with skin-tingling consistency?

LibTired on May 31, 2010 at 4:15 PM

Put Aleph’s Arabic through Google Translate.

baldilocks on May 31, 2010 at 4:03 PM

Interesting translation…lol

clnurnberg on May 31, 2010 at 4:17 PM

Protests now in NYC, overwhelmingly white. They`d be so amusing if there wasn`t such hate behind them.

ThePrez on May 31, 2010 at 4:18 PM

The flotilla was organized by the Islamist government in Turkey to aid Hamas with the goal of opening up shipping channels for Turkey’s new friend, Iran, to ship more and better weapons as it is doing to Hezbollah in Lebanon. Iran is busy turning Lebanon and Syria into one large missile launching pad against Israel, and a southern base in Gaza will complete the encirclement of Israel for the coming crisis over Iran’s nuclear program.

The Europeans on the ships were cover, and the placement of an 18-month old child on these ships was the utmost cynical use of a human shield.

If getting humanitarian supplies to Gaza really was the goal, this flotilla was not necessary. The supplies would have been off-loaded in Eqypt or Israel and then shipped in by land after being checked for hidden weapons.

And that is the rub, only sea-based shipping would provide Iran with the mechanism for almost unlimited armament of Hamas. There is a limit to the quantity and size of missiles and other armaments which can be smuggled through tunnels from Egypt. That is why the sea blockade must be broken for Iran to get what it wants.

Legal Insurrection

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 4:25 PM

aengus on May 31, 2010 at 4:05 PM

Just that Obooboo won’t even give Israel’s enemies so much as a dirty look to discourage bad behavior.

Laura in Maryland on May 31, 2010 at 4:26 PM

The troops look in control of their own space.

xkaydet65 on May 31, 2010 at 4:09 PM

Yeah, if “controlling your own space” means being thrown over the side, beaten with rods and chairs…

ProfessorMiao on May 31, 2010 at 4:27 PM

Has the entire world gone mad?

turfmann on May 31, 2010 at 2:30 PM

You will notice most things liberals support will not make sense. It is an evil philosophy.

scotash on May 31, 2010 at 4:30 PM

From ??????

We face the resurrection of the original enemy of the Jewish people, a resurgent islamic fundamentalism evidencing itself in totalitarian, imperialist design. This time it has morphed itself using 21st century technologies still retaining a 7th century mentality, utilizing terrorism internationally to promote its perverse aims.

One of those objectives is the destruction of the State the world agreed to support in creating, Israel.

In keeping with previous traditions established by muhammad, the modern islamic warriors promote taquiyya, lying to promote islam. They also, just as muhammad, use the Treaty of Hudabiyya as a model to delay and deceive their enemies until they are ready to strike. Under Yasser Arafat some 200 agreements were never honored.

Why would be trust any word coming from the mouth of the psychopathic delusional leader of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? The mad mullahs, insane imams, and combative clerics are again calling for the supremacy of islam, no different from earlier centuries.

Israel faces groups such as Hamas which in its charter commits to the destruction of Israel. They face Iran who has committed to destroying the Jewish state and driving its people into the sea. When asked to depart from southern Lebanon, Israel complied, yet they now face Hezbollah in the north. In Egypt the muslim brotherhood is complicit in enabling Hamas to receive materiel support and funding through the series of tunnels.

And there are those who demand more land be ceded by Israel and settlements halted? The end result will be a Country with the width comparable to the distance of New York’s JFK to LaGuardia airports. Each time Israel has given back terrain it has become a launching point for terrorist attacks.

We are dealing with an enemy that has no regard, nor respect, for negotiations, compromises, and certainly not appeasement. Matter of fact it is deemed weakness and only encourages them moreso.

I do not support any creation of a Palestinian state, to do so would be to create a terrorist state. There is already a state for the Arabic people residing in the region called Palestine, Jordan. If the Arabs can build an indoor ski slope in Dubai, they can resolve the issue of their Arab brothers and sisters. Instead, they use them as pawns in an international game of extortion and use the subsidies provided not for humanitarian gain but for more weapons, for jihad.

I do not support any division of Jerusalem. If I recall from history and the Old Testament, David, Son of Israel built Jerusalem and his son Solomon made it great. The muslim claims to Jerusalem are based upon a very contentious story concocted by muhammad, and of course the latter conquering of the city even by Salahaddin. One flag will fly over Jerusalem, the Israeli flag, never any other, certainly not a UN flag.

Lastly, we must move away from the antiquated world government organization called the United Nations. We recently saw what type “leaders” are allowed a stage before this body politic. It is time we create a new organization which is based upon Nations with like political structures, Republics and Democracies. I advocate Israel being part of this structure, perhaps an expanded NATO, but something with teeth, and principled member Nations. We face a dangerous committed enemy, we are all targets, not just Israel.

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 4:31 PM

UN is no more than a “democracy” of dictatorships who control their own citizenry through an iron jackboot.
We should kick them out of the US unless the intel we get is worth a damn.

clnurnberg on May 31, 2010 at 4:34 PM

I’m late to the discussion; I’ll make it short.

IDF shouldn’t have risked their lives. Rappelling down into a mob was incredibly brave but incredibly foolhardy. The should have tossed down a couple dozen tear-gas grenades to clear the LZ, then shot anyone who threatened.

Israel worries too much about bad PR. They should know by now they will get bad PR no matter what.

Splashman on May 31, 2010 at 4:43 PM

Why board the boats? A couple of torpedoes should suffice.

MaiDee on May 31, 2010 at 4:47 PM

Pamela Geller -

Today’s incident on the Gaza jihad flotilla was an act of war – but not by Israel. The tsunami of Jew-hating propaganda from the jihad-loving media has already begun. The international media, predictably, is spinning the story as if it were all Israel’s fault, saying that the IDF killed innocent civilian humanitarian workers on a flotilla headed to Gaza to bring aid to the starving people there.

In reality, none of that is true. This was an act of war against Israel. The people in Gaza aren’t starving, and the “humanitarian aid workers” on the flotilla were actually Islamic jihadists who attacked the IDF first. It was a planned attack — by Hamas and the hardline Muslim groups. Hamas supporters planned an armed assault, which included the murder of captured Israeli heroes. They almost succeeded.

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 4:47 PM

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 4:31 PM

From the next Congressman from FL-22 and hopefully a national leader someday.

aquaviva on May 31, 2010 at 4:47 PM

I wonder if Cynthia McKinney was on that boat, if so, I have no doubt she was the one swinging the pole.

M-14 2go on May 31, 2010 at 4:49 PM

CBS.com: Breaking – U.N. Security Council Holds Emergency Session on Israeli Raid

faraway on May 31, 2010 at 5:00 PM

Hmm, I think im getting the hang of HA logic. Humanitarian crises must only be responded to by people who would not resist being prevented from entering a crisis zone.

I wonder, why you all felt so differently when it was Iranians getting killed by police for resisting.

ernesto on May 31, 2010 at 3:03 PM

This didn’t happen in New York Ernesto and it should not concern you, so STFD and STFU and say a prayer to Gob, Corn Cob God.

Death to the ideology of Islam and freedom for the Muslims! Freedom for the world!

Cull the enemy herd Israel!

BL@KBIRD on May 31, 2010 at 5:02 PM

Gaza’s markets are full of produce, thousands of tons of supplies are travelling into Gaza every week through the Israeli-controlled border crossings, and there is no starvation or humanitarian crisis. It was always obvious that the flotilla was not the humanitarian exercise it was said to be. Here is footage of the IDF offering to dock the Marmara — the main flotilla ship — at Ashdod and transfer its supplies and being told ‘Negative, negative, our destination is Gaza’.

And now we can see that the real purpose of this invasion — backed by the Turkish Humanitarian Relief Foundation (IHH), a radical Islamic organization outlawed by Israel in 2008 for allegedly serving as a major component in Hamas’s global fund-raising machine — was to incite a violent uprising in the Middle East and across the Islamic world. As I write, reports are coming in of Arab rioting in Jerusalem.

Melanie Phillips in the London Spectator.

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 5:03 PM

Legal Insurrection

[Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 4:25 PM]

As I thought from the other thread, the Turks had a hand in this, and as such it was an attack on the Israelis by proxy.

Dusty on May 31, 2010 at 5:06 PM

In summary: Ernesto has been thoroughly spanked.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 5:07 PM

The Israelis advised Turkish and European envoys beforehand of their intention to use naval forces to prevent the flotilla from reaching Gaza. The outrage now being shown by European politicians certainly isn’t based on surprise at the course of events; the Israelis did exactly what they said they would do. In fact, some reports suggest that European governments joined Israel last week in pressuring Greek Cyprus to prevent the departure of flotilla participants who were using Cyprus as a staging area. In the days since Mavi Marmara’s departure from Istanbul on May 22, Europeans have been watching the flotilla’s dilatory progress much more closely than Americans have. The truth about the dramatic climax off Gaza on Monday is that the whole event has unfolded in slow motion – and with the full cognizance of all the relevant governments.

Commentary Magazine’s Contentions blog.

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 5:08 PM

Aleph on May 31, 2010 at 3:09 PM

12 Noon,Waco in front of Crickets,we will pick the day,all you have to do is show up. We can have a beer summit surely you jest?

Col.John Wm. Reed on May 31, 2010 at 5:09 PM

IDF: Pictures of Weapons Found on the Mavi Marmara Flotilla Ship, 31 May 2010

_Terrorists_

There were no “peace activists.”

mudskipper on May 31, 2010 at 5:14 PM

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 5:03 PM

I’m still shaking my head over this. The IDF knew this was all a crock, so why did they risk the lives of their brave soldiers? For the sake of avoiding “civilian” casualties? The people on those boats were/are animated trash, not worth the spilling of a single drop of Israeli blood.

Splashman on May 31, 2010 at 5:17 PM

For the non Arabic readers

محمد اغتصاب الفتيات الصغيرات. وكان والده بقرة. كانت والدته خنزير. أحمدي نجاد الماعز الاغتصاب.
=
Muhammad raped young girls. His father was a cow. His mother was a pig. Ahmadinejad goat rape.

Col.John Wm. Reed on May 31, 2010 at 5:20 PM

Splashman on May 31, 2010 at 5:17 PM

Because they knew how the media would spin it if there were a lot of civilian casualties. So they risked their own lives to keep the “peace activists” casualties down.

Over at Contentions, one of the bloggers said he’d heard from a friend who was an ER nurse in a Jerusalem hospital. They were getting the wounded there from the Hamas ship. The wounded were in combat fatigues. Odd choice of clothing for “peace activists.”

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 5:24 PM

Considering the heat Israel is going to take for this anyway, they should have just sank that ship.

Kenosha Kid on May 31, 2010 at 5:25 PM

This attack reminds me of descriptions of attacks by rioting Gitmo prisoners on the prison guards where makeshift weapons were used by the prisoners, while the guards responded with rubber bullets.

Buy Danish on May 31, 2010 at 5:27 PM

Okay. I wasn’t sure. I don’t associate the word Aleph with islam. And I’m certainly seen that paragraph before. The arabic is new and should be a dead give away. duh.

Blake on May 31, 2010 at 5:31 PM

Col.John Wm. Reed on May 31, 2010 at 5:20 PM

Do you really need to go there? Really? At least put it in bold .

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 5:32 PM

I wonder if Cynthia McKinney was on that boat, if so, I have no doubt she was the one swinging the pole.

M-14 2go on May 31, 2010 at 4:49 PM

Gah! I thought you said she was swinging ON a pole.

Actually, I asked this yesterday, and someone said she wasn’t on this one. Probably at an “End Apartheid in AZ” rally…

MeatHeadinCA on May 31, 2010 at 5:32 PM

Over at Contentions, one of the bloggers said he’d heard from a friend who was an ER nurse in a Jerusalem hospital. They were getting the wounded there from the Hamas ship. The wounded were in combat fatigues. Odd choice of clothing for “peace activists.”

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 5:24 PM

What? No gerbils?

Blake on May 31, 2010 at 5:33 PM

Odd choice of clothing for “peace activists.”

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 5:24 PM

We know the last thing leftists want is peace…

MeatHeadinCA on May 31, 2010 at 5:34 PM

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 5:24 PM

I do not believe IDF would deliberately risk the lives of their elite soldiers. I am no military expert, but from comments around the web, there are ways to stop or disable ships without large scale casualties. It is clear to me that this is was a screw up. I think the Israeli public is going to want answers. Watch for official inquiries into this.

chris999 on May 31, 2010 at 5:34 PM

Because they knew how the media would spin it if there were a lot of civilian casualties. So they risked their own lives to keep the “peace activists” casualties down.

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 5:24 PM

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, Israel will be crucified in the press no matter what. I know it, you know it, and Israel certainly knows it. The only uncertainty is how soon the inevitable press narrative (“Israelis brutally kill innocents”) is debunked. In my opinion, a minor shift in that timeline is not worth Israeli blood. It baffles me that the IDF seems to disagree.

Splashman on May 31, 2010 at 5:38 PM

According to JPost, some of the Hamas “peace activists” who were wounded and taken to Israeli hospitals have refused the free medical treatement offered them.

They really do want to be martyrs. Radical Islam is a death cult in which the deaths of its believers as well as the deaths of unbelievers are both desirable. It is hard for Western culture (particularly American and European liberals) to grasp this. They keep thinking that Islamists will act rationally and try to preserve life – their own and others’.

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 5:38 PM

Why can’t leftists just boycott the bigots in Gaza? Why must they only focus on the “bigots” in AZ?

MeatHeadinCA on May 31, 2010 at 5:39 PM

According to JPost, some of the Hamas “peace activists” who were wounded and taken to Israeli hospitals have refused the free medical treatement offered them.

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 5:38 PM

Let’s just hope that Dems will be refusing Obamacare… dream on…

MeatHeadinCA on May 31, 2010 at 5:40 PM

The Bubble
Funny thing is Tel Aviv is kind of the San Francisco of Israel; home to the left of the left. Looks like their ‘bubble’ is the preferred target. Lesson?

Reality Check on May 31, 2010 at 5:42 PM

I do not believe IDF would deliberately risk the lives of their elite soldiers. I am no military expert, but from comments around the web, there are ways to stop or disable ships without large scale casualties. It is clear to me that this is was a screw up. I think the Israeli public is going to want answers. Watch for official inquiries into this.

chris999 on May 31, 2010 at 5:34 PM

I agree with your conclusion. It’s not like this flotilla was a surprise. There was time to plan and prepare a way to deal with the boats without risking the lives of IDF soldiers. And that’s why your first sentence makes no sense.

Splashman on May 31, 2010 at 5:43 PM

Splashman on May 31, 2010 at 5:38 PM

See my next post. It’s a fundamental distinction between Western thought and radical Islam. They do not care how many they kill or how. We do. And they will turn around and use Western values to criticize Israel (or the US) for the death of innocents while they don’t hesitate to kill innocents (Muslim or not) in the advance of their own goals.

Westerners voluntarily restrict the tactics they can use because of their fundamental values, because those values represent who we are. Sticking to those values, i.e., the protection of life, can be costly at times.

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 5:43 PM

Gah! I thought you said she was swinging ON a pole.
MeatHeadinCA on May 31, 2010 at 5:32 PM

RED ALERT…RED ALERT…VISUAL OVERLOAD…YOUR EYES WILL SELF DESTRUCT IN 30 SECONDS…29…28…27…

sdd on May 31, 2010 at 5:49 PM

Splashman on May 31, 2010 at 5:43 PM

I was responding to this comment:

So they risked their own lives to keep the “peace activists” casualties down.

It is a mystery to me why they did not anticipate the armed gang of Turkish Islamic militants. It’s hard for me to believe you would knowingly drop your sailors into an armed gang without guns. Kind of reminds me of Somalia. I guess we’ll find out.

chris999 on May 31, 2010 at 5:50 PM

CWforFreedom on May 31,
No bold just a thought you might like?
والله التعامل مع الجهاديين الإسلامية

Col.John Wm. Reed on May 31, 2010 at 5:50 PM

See my next post. It’s a fundamental distinction between Western thought and radical Islam.

Aren’t you guilty of the same error? Erdogan for instance said there is no such thing as moderate Islam or radical Islam. There is only Islam. He should know.

Do you agree that the neoconservative attempts to spread democracy to the Middle East are misconceived? Since Muslims live in a different mental universe to use, how are they supposed to implement an ancient Greek political system for which they have no antecedent?

aengus on May 31, 2010 at 5:54 PM

IDF shouldn’t have risked their lives. Rappelling down into a mob was incredibly brave but incredibly foolhardy. The should have tossed down a couple dozen tear-gas grenades to clear the LZ, then shot anyone who threatened.

Israel worries too much about bad PR. They should know by now they will get bad PR no matter what.

Splashman on May 31, 2010 at 4:43 PM

My sentiments exactly. I would even go further to suggest that the IDF should have holed the ship if they refused to retreat and let the bastards tread water or drown.

docdave on May 31, 2010 at 5:56 PM

BadgerHawk on May 31, 2010 at 3:52 PM

If said supplies were en route to an area highly populated with starving destitute civilians, yeah I’d probably have a problem with US commandos boarding and killing.

ernesto on May 31, 2010 at 6:02 PM

WTF, why don’t these guys do something productive with their lives.

Here’s an idea, a couple shiploads of these “peace activists” as bait off the coast of Somalia and we would see pirate attacks drop precipitously. Now that would be productive.

But no, their goal is not peace but the destruction of the Jewish nation.

LifeTrek on May 31, 2010 at 6:05 PM

If said supplies were en route to an area highly populated with starving destitute civilians, yeah I’d probably have a problem with US commandos boarding and killing.

ernesto on May 31, 2010 at 6:02 PM

Ernie ye dimmest of wits. They got there stuff-sheesh.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 6:06 PM

Ernie you were spanked throughout this thread. Read, learn, become educated.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 6:08 PM

We are curious to see the cargo,pr announcing that all on board are peacenicks is a good way to send in a few harmless IED experts.The pictures of the number and type of blades these peace lovers had looks like the cleaned out every butcher shop in Cyprus.
This ought to be a very interesting off loading of stuff.

Col.John Wm. Reed on May 31, 2010 at 6:09 PM

I would even go further to suggest that the IDF should have holed the ship if they refused to retreat and let the bastards tread water or drown.

docdave on May 31, 2010 at 5:56 PM

“Letting them drown” is not a realistic scenario. How about punch a hole in the ship (without a big explosion), then rescue the “peace activists” from the water (hard to fight back when you’re treading water) as well as their weapons (for the photo shoot).

The only trouble with my scenario is that some number of death-loving Islamists would deliberately go down with the boat, knowing they would score a PR victory.

Splashman on May 31, 2010 at 6:10 PM

If said supplies were en route to an area highly populated with starving destitute civilians, yeah I’d probably have a problem with US commandos boarding and killing.

ernesto on May 31, 2010 at 6:02 PM

Forgive me, but this represents obscene reasoning. Allow me to demonstrate:

Ship was boarded because supplies were en route somewhere.
People were shot because supplies were en route somewhere.

Is that your deduction?

anuts on May 31, 2010 at 6:11 PM

chris999 on May 31, 2010 at 5:50 PM

I understand now. Thanks.

Splashman on May 31, 2010 at 6:12 PM

If said supplies were en route to an area highly populated with starving destitute civilians, yeah I’d probably have a problem with US commandos boarding and killing.

Not logical if it would resupply a bunch that are willing to kill any Westerners and teach kids to bomb civillians and bread more killers, do not feed the enemies base stock.

Col.John Wm. Reed on May 31, 2010 at 6:14 PM

It all comes down to cultural nuance…metal sticks and knives are the tools of Muslim peace activists.

CarolynM on May 31, 2010 at 6:16 PM

If said supplies were en route to an area highly populated with starving destitute civilians, yeah I’d probably have a problem with US commandos boarding and killing.

ernesto on May 31, 2010 at 6:02 PM

Fine, but the people in Gaza are not starving. In fact, their only problems are caused by their support of indiscriminate shelling of Israeli citizens. No missiles, no blockade.

pedestrian on May 31, 2010 at 6:17 PM

Westerners voluntarily restrict the tactics they can use because of their fundamental values, because those values represent who we are. Sticking to those values, i.e., the protection of life, can be costly at times.

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 5:43 PM

Are you contending that in cases such as this flotilla, “protection of life” = sacrificing the lives of life-loving westerners to save the lives of death-loving Islamists?

If so, I couldn’t possibly disagree more.

I contend that in such cases, “protection of life” = allowing death-loving Islamists to achieve their goal (death) without sacrificing the lives of life-loving westerners.

Splashman on May 31, 2010 at 6:21 PM

These ships couldnt have been too fast. Block their way and then wreck their propellors they wouldnt have been able to get to harbor unless under a tow.

William Amos on May 31, 2010 at 6:23 PM

William Amos on May 31, 2010 at 6:23 PM

Good point — I hadn’t thought of that. A very simple solution indeed.

Splashman on May 31, 2010 at 6:26 PM

If said supplies were en route to an area highly populated with starving destitute civilians, yeah I’d probably have a problem with US commandos boarding and killing.
A well fed enemy is not helpful.
We are dealing with 7Th century people with modern toys of war. SIEGE is a very effective pacifier.

Col.John Wm. Reed on May 31, 2010 at 6:27 PM

I’m going to post this entire exchange so perhaps you’ll be better able to see the stupidity of your reasoning.

Ernesto,

What would the U.S. response be if a group of ships announced they were going to breach our waters and drop supplies (that we had no way of verifying) off on the eastern seaboard?

What would our response be if they ignored repeated warning to pull into a naval port and have their cargo inspected, but instead announced they were going to run a naval blockade?

What would we do if, after Coast Guard personnel boarded the ships, they were attacked with knives, metal poles and guns?

Now ask yourself why your answer does a 180 when you substitute the Israelis into the scenario.

BadgerHawk on May 31, 2010 at 3:52 PM

If said supplies were en route to an area highly populated with starving destitute civilians, yeah I’d probably have a problem with US commandos boarding and killing.

ernesto on May 31, 2010 at 6:02 PM

So if, say, Iran (or any country that has shown an intent to be hostile to the U.S. in the past) said they were sending ships filled with supplies for homeless Americans, you’d just take their word for it?

You wouldn’t insist on inspecting the cargo before they pulled up to the U.S. coastline?

And when the crew of the ships attacked the Coast Guard with knives, metal poles and guns, you’d have a problem with the Coast Guard firing back?

Ok. Good luck with that.

BadgerHawk on May 31, 2010 at 6:27 PM

Also, ernesto:

The Palestinians are the most heavily aided and subsidized group of people on the planet.

That they choose to use those monies and supplies to purchase weapons and fund war is not the Israelis fault.

BadgerHawk on May 31, 2010 at 6:28 PM

1st soldier down the rope was brave, every soldier that followed him had balls of steel. It would be an honor to serve amongst such people. Go Israel.

Howcome on May 31, 2010 at 6:30 PM

Why is it we who accept the threat that these Islamists pose continue to try to be civil with them when they are clearly animals with a mentality over a 1000 years behind the times?

They hoarded this ship with friggin’ paintball guns for crying out loud. How do you fight Islamists with GODD@MN PAINTBALLS!?!?!?!?!

If Israel and those of us in the West who know this threat posed by Islamists wont take the steps needed to actually fight it then we might as well just march into the ovens right now!

Yakko77 on May 31, 2010 at 6:31 PM

New T shirt slogan.
ليكن الله قتل جميع الارهابيين تقرر!

Col.John Wm. Reed on May 31, 2010 at 6:31 PM

So if, say, Iran (or any country that has shown an intent to be hostile to the U.S. in the past) said they were sending ships filled with supplies for homeless Americans, you’d just take their word for it?

You wouldn’t insist on inspecting the cargo before they pulled up to the U.S. coastline?

And when the crew of the ships attacked the Coast Guard with knives, metal poles and guns, you’d have a problem with the Coast Guard firing back?

Ok. Good luck with that.

BadgerHawk on May 31, 2010 at 6:27 PM

Of course Ernie would trust the Iranians in the US! Ernie and Mahmoud clearly have the same philosophy esp if Iran was sending arms to Arizona “peace activists”. Naturally I understand that this was just a rhetorical question.

clnurnberg on May 31, 2010 at 6:34 PM

New T shirt slogan.
ليكن الله قتل جميع الارهابيين تقرر!

Col.John Wm. Reed on May 31, 2010 at 6:31 PM

I have one that says “Infidel” in English and Arabic from LifeLibertyetc.com

I get lots of favorable comments when I wear it…. a couple dirty looks or bemused expressions from time to time but mostly positive.

Yakko77 on May 31, 2010 at 6:36 PM

Sink it, then turkey shoot those fools.

Static on May 31, 2010 at 6:39 PM

Joel Rosenberg’s weblog has an update on this. He once worked with Netanyahu and is very close to many Israeli’s:

http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/

texasconserv on May 31, 2010 at 6:41 PM

1st soldier down the rope was brave, every soldier that followed him had balls of steel. It would be an honor to serve amongst such people. Go Israel.

Howcome on May 31, 2010 at 6:30 PM

+1 to every word.

And you make a good point: the first soldier didn’t know what to expect. Each that followed knew what to expect, and still went down the rope. Balls of steel, indeed.

Splashman on May 31, 2010 at 6:41 PM

Fernandez’s point: Is further isolating Israel when it’s already desperate over Iran’s nuclear program and Hezbollah’s missile capacity a wise idea?

Just keep backing Israel into a corner and see what happens. They’ll eventually snap out of this peace at any cost nonsense and actually defend the peace….. or so I hope because I have my doubt about our C-in-C stepping up to the plate on this.

Yakko77 on May 31, 2010 at 6:44 PM

If said supplies were en route to an area highly populated with starving destitute civilians, yeah I’d probably have a problem with US commandos boarding and killing.

ernesto on May 31, 2010 at 6:02 PM

Would you have a problem with British/American troops blowing ships out of the water sending supplies to starving Nazis?

MeatHeadinCA on May 31, 2010 at 6:45 PM

Somali pirates are treated with better decency than the Israeli commandos were. Imagine if sailors aboard a tanker were to beat a Somali pirate the way the Israelis were beaten, the world would be in an uproar over how the Somali’s “are poor and are just doing what they are doing to make money so they can buy food.”
I can hear it already.

The world’s double standard irks me to no end.

siwrcw03 on May 31, 2010 at 6:46 PM

The Israelis have an international right to set a blockade, patrol their coast line and refuse entry to any who would want to break the blockade, especailly on a whim.

Those that were parading about in a war zone knew the hazards and peril they were undertaking. These were adults who for perhaps political reasons wanted to break through a blockade and create a point of weakness. They no doubt underestimated international law at their own peril.

It’s no coincidence most Arabs and radical Islamics, and baseless liberals, are protesting declaring that Israel has lost it’s legitimacy. Not so. Israel is set to defend itself at every turn. Those who criticize are the same that wanted a win-win for themselves: either break the blockade and celebrate or temp Israel to defend herself and criticize. Too bad they are not the ones to decide in this issue. Israel has merely exercised her right to defend her coastline at all costs.

AdrianS on May 31, 2010 at 6:46 PM

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