Bloody clash off Gaza coast leaves 10 dead

posted at 10:43 am on May 31, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

The preferred media headline so far this morning has been “Israelis kill 10 peace activists in Gaza flotilla,” but that’s not quite what happened.  The IDF attempted to head off a number of boats attempting to run the blockade on Gaza, a blockade necessitated by Hamas’ repeated attacks on Israel.  They boarded the lead ship by helicopter, expecting to either convince the occupants to turn back or to commandeer the boat themselves.  What they didn’t expect was to find armed “peace activists,” and a bloody melee ensued:

The left-wing activists on board a flotilla carrying aid to the Gaza Strip tried to lynch the Israel Navy commandos who stormed their Turkish-flagged ship early Monday, Israel Defense Forces sources told Haaretz.

The commandos, who intercepted the Turkish ferry Mavi Marmara after it ignored orders to turn back, said they encountered violent resistance from activists armed with sticks and knives. According to the soldiers, the activists threw one of their comrades from the upper deck to the lower after they boarded.

Activists attacked a commando with iron bars as he descended onto the ship from a helicopter, the army said. The IDF said its rules of engagement allowed troops to open fire in what it called a “life-threatening situation”.

The soldiers said they were forced to open fire after the activists struck one of their comrades in the head and trampled on him. A senior field commander ordered the soldiers then to respond with fire, a decision which the commandos said received full backing the military echelon.

At least 10 people were killed and several more wounded after the Israel Navy troops opened fire on the six-ship flotilla. Unofficial reports put the death toll at between 14 and 20.

Ynet has a more detailed timeline of the confrontation:

A few minutes before the takeover attempt aboard the Marmara got underway, the operation commander was told that 20 people were waiting on the deck where a helicopter was to deploy the first team of the elite Flotilla 13 unit. The original plan was to disembark on the top deck, and from there rush to the vessel’s bridge and order the Marmara’s captain to stop.

Officials estimated that passengers will show slight resistance, and possibly minor violence; for that reason, the operation’s commander decided to bring the helicopter directly above the top deck. The first rope that soldiers used in order to descend down to the ship was wrested away by activists, most of them Turks, and tied to an antenna with the hopes of bringing the chopper down. However, Flotilla 13 fighters decided to carry on.

Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.

However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.

One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other “don’t shoot, don’t shoot,” even though they sustained numerous blows.

The Navy commandoes were prepared to mostly encounter political activists seeking to hold a protest, rather than trained street fighters. The soldiers were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs. They were permitted to use their handguns only under extreme circumstances.

The planned rush towards the vessel’s bridge became impossible, even when a second chopper was brought in with another crew of soldiers. “Throw stun grenades,” shouted Flotilla 13’s commander who monitored the operation. The Navy chief was not too far, on board a speedboat belonging to Flotilla 13, along with forces who attempted to climb into the back of the ship.

The forces hurled stun grenades, yet the rioters on the top deck, whose number swelled up to 30 by that time, kept on beating up about 30 commandoes who kept gliding their way one by one from the helicopter. At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness.

Only after this injury did Flotilla 13 troops ask for permission to use live fire. The commander approved it: You can go ahead and fire. The soldiers pulled out their handguns and started shooting at the rioters’ legs, a move that ultimately neutralized them. Meanwhile, the rioters started to fire back at the commandoes.

Ynet notes that the IDF should learn two lessons from this. First, paintball rifles won’t work against so-called peace activists when they’re armed and inclined to fight. That’s probably even more true in an in-close confrontation, such as on a boat. Paintballs sting, as anyone who has played war games with them attest, but once antagonists understand that’s all they do, they won’t provide any deterrent value at all.

The second lesson Ynet takes is that the soldiers should have considered the fact that their arrival was hardly a surprise and planned accordingly, but really, the IDF and the Israelis were foolish to assume that these activists had non-violent intentions in the first place. The demonstration was in support of Hamas, hardly a group dedicated to non-violence and peaceful coexistence. That assumption put their soldiers’ lives at risk unnecessarily and allowed planners to eschew a more muscular entry to the boat — which could have saved lives on both sides of the equation with an initial use of overwhelming force.

The world will blame Israel for this, but the blockade exists to keep weapons out of the hands of Hamas, which continually attacks Israel despite the latter’s withdrawal from Gaza years ago. It’s a legitimate and necessary military response to Hamas’ terrorism, and the flotilla knowingly sailed itself into a military conflict — and carried arms into it as well. That makes them legitimate antagonists in the conflict and fair game for Israeli’s military.

Update: Say, it’s probably a good thing the IDF had its video cameras rolling:

Update II: Via Cubachi, the group behind the flotilla has a history of supporting violent jihad and anti-Westernism:

Prominent among the coalition organizations participating in the aid flotilla scheduled to arrive in the Gaza Strip in the coming days is the Turkish IHH (Insani Yardim Vakfi, IHH, “humanitarian relief fund”). It is a radical Islamic organization which was established in 1992 and formally registered in Istanbul in 1995. It is headed by Bülent Yildirim.  …

In practice, besides its legitimate humanitarian activities, IHH supports radical Islamic terrorist networks. Inrecent years it has prominently supported Hamas (through the Union of Good). In addition, the ITIC has reliable information that in the past IHH provided logistical support and funding to global jihad networks.

IHH’s orientation is radical-Islamic and anti-American, and it is close to the Muslim Brotherhood(Hamas’ parent movement). IHH supports Hamas and does not hide the connection between them. Hamas also considers its links to IHH and Turkey to be extremely important, and regards Turkey as a target audience for its propaganda network (Palestine-Information, Hamas’ main website, has a Turkish version, and as of the end of 2009, the website of its military wing, the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, has also appeared in Turkish).

In recent years, especially since Hamas took over the Gaza Strip, IHH has supported Hamas’ propaganda campaigns by organizing public support conferences in Turkey. At those conferences, which featured the participation of senior IHH figures, the heads of IHH expressed their support for Hamas and its strategy (including the armed struggle it favors), in defiance of the Palestinian Authority, Hamas’ rival.

IHH is a member of the Union of Good, an umbrella organization of more than 50 Islamic funds and foundations around the globe, which channels money into Hamas institutions in the Palestinian Authority-administered territories. As a Union of Good member IHH has connections with other worldwide Islamic funds and foundations which support Hamas. Among other things, the support includes initiating and conducting joint projects whose objectives are to bolster the de facto Hamas administration in the Gaza Strip and Hamas’ civilian infrastructure in Judea and Samaria, which also supports terrorism (the infrastructure is under pressure from the Palestinian Authority security services). IHH, which has become an important factor in global fund-raising for Hamas, transfers significant amounts of money to Hamas institutions in Judea and Samaria, including the Islamic Charitable Society in Hebron and the Al-Tadhamun Charitable Society in Nablus (Hamas’ two central “charitable societies,” both outlawed by Israel).

IHH operates widely throughout the Gaza Strip. To promote its activities it opened a branch there, headed by Muhammad Kaya, who recently stated that IHH intended to send other aid flotillas to the Gaza Strip (See below). In January 2008 an IHH delegation met with Ahmed Bahar, a senior Hamas activist who is acting chairman of Hamas’ council in the Gaza Strip. At the meeting the delegation revealed the extent of the aid it had given Hamas in the Gaza Strip during the preceding year and said it intended to double the sum in the future. In January 2009 IHH head Bülent Yildirim met with Khaled Mashaal, chairman of Hamas’ political bureau in Damascus, and Mashaal thanked him for the support of his organization.

Israel expelled IHH from Gaza in 2008, along with 35 other organizations associated with the Union of Good.

Update III: And here we have a “peace activist” repeatedly stabbing an IDF soldier, via Orit Sklar on Twitter:

Yup, a really good thing the IDF brought along its video cameras …

Update V: A few commenters point out that this took place in international waters, not in Gaza’s waters, and therefore consider Israel’s actions illegitimate.  However, the flotilla had already announced their intention to run the blockade, making them belligerent and giving the Israelis a reason to interdict them.  And are we to believe that the “peace activists” would have surrendered peacefully had this action taken them within the 12-mile limit?  I see no reason to believe that; indeed, it looks as though they were prepared for armed confrontation.

Update VI: Noel Sheppard at Newsbusters takes a look at the news coverage of the incident.


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chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 12:28 PM
You only prove the point. They asked for it. Now only if everyone actually thought about this.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 12:29 PM

And you MISS the point!
This incident is a net LOSS for Israel, for the reasons I stated:

Net results: Israel angers Turkey; deepens estrangement with U.S.; generates massive worldwide sympathy for the Palestinians; sinks further into isolation.

How does this help Israel?

chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:26 PM

Not all. 700 people on a confined boat, in the dark, and they send in 30 commandos with paintball guns and pistols? That’s asking for trouble in my opinion.

Plus, I’ve yet to read or hear about what type of communications the IDF had with the ships before boarding. That also would play a key role in determining an appropriate response.

700 on 6 boats… maybe 200 on the one raided since it was the largest, A real Sausage Fest of a boat of the IHH.

There was already a video posted of Israelis telling the boats that they can go to ashod, and personally supervise all the aid from the point they reach port until it is inside the Gaza Strip. The Israelis tried to work with them, but the boats all declared “negative, negative”

dIb on May 31, 2010 at 1:26 PM

Butterfly for the 3rd time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKOmLP4yHb4&feature=player_embedded#

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 1:26 PM

Not all. 700 people on a confined boat, in the dark, and they send in 30 commandos with paintball guns and pistols? That’s asking for trouble in my opinion.

Plus, I’ve yet to read or hear about what type of communications the IDF had with the ships before boarding. That also would play a key role in determining an appropriate response.

[ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 1:21 PM]

In the dark? Really??? LMAO.

And now your unarmed, innocent civilians are something the Israeli Navy is supposed to be concerned will cause trouble when they board the ship trying to run a blockade?

Dusty on May 31, 2010 at 1:27 PM

Yeah, IDF has never killed civilians. They’ve all been terrorists!!
ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 1:15 PM

According to the Geneva Convention, if a combatant hides behind a civilian, and his enemy kills the civilian, then the fault of the death of the civilian lies with the combatant hiding, not the one that actually killed the civilian.

Johnny 100 Pesos on May 31, 2010 at 1:27 PM

How does this help Israel?

chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:26 PM

It sends a message to would-be martyrs, that their wish to enter the Great Brothel in the Sky will be granted, courtesy of the IDF.

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 1:28 PM

Don’t feed the anti-Semitic trolls.

KSgop on May 31, 2010 at 1:28 PM

chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:26 PM

Lookee here, another Ron Paul supporter!

stefanite on May 31, 2010 at 1:28 PM

So the IDF may have killed some innocent civilians here? That is the issue??? Who the hell do terrorists target almost exclusively??? Butterfly clown, are you for real?

ndanielson on May 31, 2010 at 1:22 PM

How innocent are civilians if they attack with knives, metal bars, and stolen handgungs? They are no longer a drum-circle, but a deadly threat against the Israelis.

dIb on May 31, 2010 at 1:29 PM

According to the Geneva Convention, if a combatant hides behind a civilian, and his enemy kills the civilian, then the fault of the death of the civilian lies with the combatant hiding, not the one that actually killed the civilian.

Johnny 100 Pesos on May 31, 2010 at 1:27 PM

Cut it out with truth and logic ButtheadDragon has a mission and truth or logic is not part of it.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 1:29 PM

Plus, I’ve yet to read or hear about what type of communications the IDF had with the ships before boarding. That also would play a key role in determining an appropriate response.

[ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 1:21 PM]

They were repeatedly told beforehand and by radio to put into the Israeli port. After the “humanitarian aid” was unloaded and inspected, it would be transported over land into Gaza.

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 1:30 PM

It’s called the right to be secure — all nations have it!

rebuzz on May 31, 2010 at 11:48 AM

I think we may be the only ones not taking advantage of it!

silvernana on May 31, 2010 at 1:30 PM

Don’t feed the anti-Semitic trolls Paultards.

KSgop on May 31, 2010 at 1:28 PM

stefanite on May 31, 2010 at 1:30 PM

Kill Jews for Allah

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 1:31 PM

saus on May 31, 2010 at 12:54 PM

Animals.

justltl on May 31, 2010 at 1:31 PM

Cut it out with truth and logic ButtheadDragon has a mission and truth or logic is not part of it.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 1:29 PM

But thinking like a liberal hurts my head. (Acting like a liberal hurts my body and my bank account)

Johnny 100 Pesos on May 31, 2010 at 1:32 PM

But…but…but….the Jewish Menace!!! All those brave young, male “peace activists” just happened to arm themselves and attacked the evil, cruel IDF strictly in self-defense. They were just protecting their precious cargo of Cream of Wheat while shouting Islamist battle cries.

kingsjester on May 31, 2010 at 1:34 PM

The Child Emperor: The Israelis, like that racists cop and those racist Arizonians, have again acted stupidly.

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 1:36 PM

Yeah, IDF has never killed civilians. They’ve all been terrorists!!

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 1:15 PM

Nice Projection. You are reasoning reminds me of a drowning person. Arms flailing, the drowning person will grab onto anyone and take them down with them.

portlandon on May 31, 2010 at 1:36 PM

They were repeatedly told beforehand and by radio to put into the Israeli port. After the “humanitarian aid” was unloaded and inspected, it would be transported over land into Gaza.

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 1:30 PM

Then sink the ship, that’s what happens in a real blockade.

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 1:37 PM

chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:26 PM
Lookee here, another Ron Paul supporter!

stefanite on May 31, 2010 at 1:28 PM

I guess it’s too much to hope that you might actually deal with the substance of my post.
How does this incident help Israel?

chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:38 PM

They were just protecting their precious cargo of Cream of Wheat weapons & contraband while shouting Islamist battle cries.

kingsjester on May 31, 2010 at 1:34 PM

portlandon on May 31, 2010 at 1:39 PM

How does this help Israel?

chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:26 PM
It sends a message to would-be martyrs, that their wish to enter the Great Brothel in the Sky will be granted, courtesy of the IDF.

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 1:28 PM

Stupid answer.

chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:39 PM

When one considers the populations of the other countries(see below_ in the middle east (many filled with people who hate Israel) you gotta wonder why so many don’t side with Israel. They have a tiny sliver of land and are under almost constant attack. Their population makes up about 2 percent of the population in the area.

Weirdly I don’t see YOU TROLLs upset with the sins of so many of the countries listed below. Hmmm. Yes anti-semites you are.

1 Egypt 77,545,232
2 Turkey 71,517,100
3 Iran 70,472,846
4 Iraq 28,807,000
5 Saudi Arabia 24,573,000
6 Yemen 21,730,000
7 Syria 19,050,000
8 Israel 7,026,000
9 Jordan 5,703,000
10 United Arab Emirates 4,496,000
11 Lebanon 3,925,502
12 Palestine 3,702,000
13 Kuwait 2,687,000
14 Oman 2,567,000
15 Qatar 813,000
16 Bahrain 727,000

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 1:41 PM

Then sink the ship, that’s what happens in a real blockade.

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 1:37 PM

You would have liked that.

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 1:41 PM

Then sink the ship, that’s what happens in a real blockade.

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 1:37 PM

So you get to define blockade? Laughable . Try again.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 1:42 PM

Funny how Youtube makes one sign in to see any video (when you go to their sites…not the hotlinked ones) that portrays Israel’s case but not for the main peace activist video.

Chubbs65 on May 31, 2010 at 1:42 PM

Stupid answer.

chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:39 PM

Because it does not agree with your pre-concieved view with follows that of perennial also-ran Ron Paul.

kingsjester on May 31, 2010 at 1:43 PM

Stupid answer.

chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:39 PM

Brilliant! Good Solid B Plus.

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 1:43 PM

Real News: 9 killed during illegal blockade run

LameStream media: 10 peace activists murdered by IDF during mission of peace.

Al Jazeera: 137 women and children butchered and thrown over board, men tortured and mutilated during IDF pirate bombardment. Live palestinian babies thrown into the waters, ship sunk. Pigs blood poured into the water over drowning victims.

portlandon on May 31, 2010 at 1:44 PM

Yes anti-semites you are.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 1:41 PM

Last refuge of the intellecutally bankrupt. There’s a lot of that on this thread.

Criticism of Israel does not equal anti-semitism.

chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:44 PM

Come on Paulbots, I’m calling you out! Time to show your true colors.

stefanite on May 31, 2010 at 1:23 PM

They already have. They feel welcome here.

Aren’t you paying attention, stefanite? Ed and Allah are apologists for son Rand because they think that anything’s better than Obama. They’re almost right. And that will be borne out by the Administration’s response of “grave concern” or some other bullcrap diplospeak we’ll hear about once The One is back from visiting his across the street neighbors from the Nation of Islam.

Psychos like those in the inbred Paul family, if they would ever become President (G-d save us!) would appoint Ramsey Clark, Bret Scowcroft, or one of their allies as Secretary of State. In other words, we would have the exact same foreign policy from them as we would under the pirates that are in charge at the moment.

But to win an election–something that, in eternity, counts as a moment in time–Ed and Allah are willing to ally themselves to antisemites and whatever brand of sexual perverts (GOProud, GOPeado, GOPreschooler) will help them have lower taxes.

It’s a bargan with the Devil.

Ed Snyder on May 31, 2010 at 1:44 PM

Stupid answer.

chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:39 PM
Brilliant! Good Solid B Plus.

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 1:43 PM

Stupid comment. Try harder.

chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:45 PM

Then sink the ship, that’s what happens in a real blockade.

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 1:37 PM

Have you switched sides? s/ If the so-called “humanitarian peace-niks” had just let Israel inspect and redirect the shipments through secure channels we wouldn’t have heard about any of this (except via a one liner on drudge)

rebuzz on May 31, 2010 at 1:45 PM

How does Ron Paul enter into this specific incident anyway? Has he condemned Israel on this?

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 1:45 PM

Stupid comment.
chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:45 PM

Seems you would know. Mr Pot meet Mr Kettle.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 1:45 PM

Any bets which side “zero” will take on this? (Sorry if someone has said that – the comments grew so fast I didn’t have time to read all of them). I just keep hoping the jews will finally get a clue and realize that the libs are not the ones who support Israel. Every vote for the current regime is a nail in Israel’s coffin!

Bambi on May 31, 2010 at 1:24 PM

I fully expect Obama to lead the charge in getting more concessions from Israel despite the absolute video proof that Israel was NOT the aggressor.

Maybe he’ll surprise me though…… though I shalln’t be holding my breath.

Yakko77 on May 31, 2010 at 1:46 PM

Stupid comment. Try harder.

chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:45 PM

You are really the word master.

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 1:47 PM

Criticism of Israel does not equal anti-semitism.

chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:44 PM

Interesting the truth struck a note with you and that YOU TOTALLY Ignored the rest of my post. Very interesting. LOL you anti-semites are far too easy to spot.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 1:47 PM

Criticism of Israel does not equal anti-semitism.

chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:44 PM

In this case it does. There’s no other explanation.

Ronnie on May 31, 2010 at 1:47 PM

How does this help Israel?

chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:26 PM
It sends a message to would-be martyrs, that their wish to enter the Great Brothel in the Sky will be granted, courtesy of the IDF.

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 1:28 PM

Outstanding answer.

ndanielson on May 31, 2010 at 1:47 PM

Then sink the ship, that’s what happens in a real blockade.

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 1:37 PM

You’ve lost your mind.

You’ve gone from extreme level 1, right to level 100.

portlandon on May 31, 2010 at 1:47 PM

Maybe he’ll surprise me though…… though I shalln’t be holding my breath.

Yakko77 on May 31, 2010 at 1:46 PM

Don’t be surprised if he doesn’t condemn Israel on this as he seems to be on a full press to pull the wool over Jews eyes again.

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 1:48 PM

Stupid comment. Try harder.
chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:45 PM

Such eloquence. Clearly a superior intellect. Your name wouldn’t be Khan, would it?

kingsjester on May 31, 2010 at 1:48 PM

It seems very appropriate today to remember the troops of the USS Liberty, and the US sailors murdered by Israel.

How Israel claimed they did not know it was a US ship, despite their pilots being heard on radio confirming it was flying US flags. How Israel paid only a pittance to the families of those killed, and to the injured survivors.

So I laugh when some suggest we should believe Israel on anything.

Some things never change.

Extra Special Prosecutor on May 31, 2010 at 1:50 PM

Come on chumpy don’t take the easy way out. I gave you facts. MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of Israeli haters in the M.E. and you pick on Israel who makes up 2% of the population there.

You don’t go after the many other countries there with atrocious human rights records. Hmmm I wonder why. Do tell Chumpy.

Have a friggin blast:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/hrarabtoc.html

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 1:50 PM

Some things never change.

Extra Special Prosecutor on May 31, 2010 at 1:50 PM

Yes this is exactly the same./
Seen any black helicopters lately?

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 1:51 PM

Stupid comment. Try harder.
chumpThreads on May 31, 2010 at 1:45 PM

Such eloquence. Clearly a superior intellect. Your name wouldn’t be Khan, would it?

kingsjester on May 31, 2010 at 1:48 PM

He meant harderer.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 1:52 PM

Then sink the ship, that’s what happens in a real blockade.

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 1:37 PM

I think the Butterfly is sinking…

AsianGirlInTights on May 31, 2010 at 1:53 PM

COME on Chumpy— what are you waiting for? Do again tell me how come you attack Israel but not Egypt, The Pals, Syria, Iran, etc etc. ? Hmmm.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 1:54 PM

Psychos like those in the inbred Paul family, if they would ever become President (G-d save us!) would appoint Ramsey Clark, Bret Scowcroft, or one of their allies as Secretary of State. In other words, we would have the exact same foreign policy from them as we would under the pirates that are in charge at the moment.

But to win an election–something that, in eternity, counts as a moment in time–Ed and Allah are willing to ally themselves to antisemites and whatever brand of sexual perverts (GOProud, GOPeado, GOPreschooler) will help them have lower taxes.

It’s a bargan with the Devil.

I would vote for Rand Paul if I were in Kentucky. Do you think I am an anti-Semite?

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 1:54 PM

Chump so weird. I can think of one explanation. Oh and I do love how you totally avoided the rest of my post./ Pretty slick of you. You’re a dishonest POS.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 1:55 PM

CRICKETS

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 1:55 PM

It seems very appropriate today to remember the troops of the USS Liberty, and the US sailors murdered by Israel.

How Israel claimed they did not know it was a US ship, despite their pilots being heard on radio confirming it was flying US flags. How Israel paid only a pittance to the families of those killed, and to the injured survivors.

So I laugh when some suggest we should believe Israel on anything.

Some things never change.

Extra Special Prosecutor on May 31, 2010 at 1:50 PM

I’m in the Navy, mother******, and I don’t blame Israel for that. Mainly because it’s always promulgated by the same antisemites who live to see the Jewish people wiped off of the face of the earth.

Got military service? I do.

Ed Snyder on May 31, 2010 at 1:55 PM

As I pointed out to an Israeli FB friend’s commentary, the Israelis are some of the biggest badasses on the planet. That seven of them were seriously injured by “peace activists” is indicative of these “peace activists” having had some serious military know-how for a bunch of alleged noble savages and peaceful academics.

Sekhmet on May 31, 2010 at 1:55 PM

Who said this –

We must get away from occupation warfare and nation building

Ron Paul or Rand Paul?

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 1:57 PM

Chumps been punked.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 1:57 PM

Just wanted to say thanks to all the Hotair commenters who are taking a stand & defending us in Israel from the usual lies & hatreds perpetrated by Islamists and their sicko leftwing unholy-alliance defenders.

The situation is clear enough, the HAMAS Islamist supporters (listed by the US Govt as a terrorist organization) tried to run the Gaza blockade, were eager to resort to violence while cynically shielding themselves behind aid & peace activists. They violently attacked the IDF after repeated offers to end the situation peacefully, and a number of them were shot & killed in IDF self defense.

There is no interpretation open here, this is what happened. We will defend ourselves in Israel through force if necessary and we make ZERO apologies for this. Any blood is on ISLAM’s hands (as usual). This was instigated by Turkey for propaganda purposes, a country which is rapidly devolving into an Iranian / Syrian Islamist axis .

If you buy this absurd Islamist propaganda this is only a reflection on you, not Israel. I support my country & soldiers without reservation (I’m sure many understand on a poignant US Memorial day) and we make zero apologies. These Hamas supporters called for & wanted martyrdom, that’s exactly what they got.

saus on May 31, 2010 at 1:58 PM

I would vote for Rand Paul if I were in Kentucky. Do you think I am an anti-Semite?

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 1:54 PM

Why would you? I would not vote at all rather than vote for someone who I know would adopt an adversarial policy towards Israel.

Where is Joe Liberman when I need him?

Ed Snyder on May 31, 2010 at 1:58 PM

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 12:05 PM
Self defense? How is boarding a vessel in international waters considered “self defense”?

When the vassal is trying to run a Naval Blockade after having been warned multible times and given instructions as to where to go to unload it’s “humanitarian” supplies.

Why would a vessel(s) attempt run a Naval Blockade if it were ONLY carrying “humanitarian” supplies?

The people on that vessel were the ones practicing self defense. They were not in Israeli territory. They were in international waters.

The vassals were trying to run a Naval Blockade after having been warned multiple times and given instructions as to where to go to unload it’s “humanitarian” supplies.

And yes this gives them the reason to suspect the “humanitarian” supplies were not “humanitarian” supplies and most likely weapons.

Are you proposing any United States Navy vessel in international waters (say the Persian Gulf) is open for Iran to board at their leisure and we cannot do anything about it?

They can try anytime they like.

I’m sure the Navy will give them a fine “how do you do!”
Most of the world understands that a US Navy ships have weapons on board cuz, uhmmm how do you say this? They are US Navy ships!

In other words ButterflyDragon, what doubt would Iran have about our US Navy ships and weapons?

You do know the US Navy is the Military, right?

DSchoen on May 31, 2010 at 1:58 PM

Got military service? I do.

Ed Snyder on May 31, 2010 at 1:55 PM

And a special ‘thank you’ to you and yours today. :)

Midas on May 31, 2010 at 1:58 PM

saus on May 31, 2010 at 1:58 PM

Am Yisroel Chai!!

Ed Snyder on May 31, 2010 at 2:00 PM

Ed thanks for your service!

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 2:01 PM

saus on May 31, 2010 at 1:58 PM

Love you guys; right there with you in spirit and prayer.

Midas on May 31, 2010 at 2:02 PM

Chumpy more crickets. You took the little boy’s way out. Not surprised in the least.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 2:02 PM

Ed Snyder on May 31, 2010 at 1:44 PM

I’ve been paying attention, and I am somewhat worried. However, black-and-white situations like this are perfect opportunities to show the Paulbots for what they really are.
People who are like, “I like what Paul says about fiscal stuff blah, blah blah” don’t realize what they are alliging themselves with. And in doing so, they give their movement legitimacy. Then, when the crazy uncle comes out, its too late.

stefanite on May 31, 2010 at 2:03 PM

Why would you? I would not vote at all rather than vote for someone who I know would adopt an adversarial policy towards Israel.

And you know that Rand Paul would do this how? The same way that Barack Obama and Eric Holder and Janet Napoleon know about the Arizona law?

Where is Joe Liberman when I need him?

Ed Snyder on May 31, 2010 at 1:58 PM

Working with other democrats on their statist agenda as is his norm I would think.

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 2:04 PM

Have you switched sides? s/ If the so-called “humanitarian peace-niks” had just let Israel inspect and redirect the shipments through secure channels we wouldn’t have heard about any of this (except via a one liner on drudge)

rebuzz on May 31, 2010 at 1:45 PM

I’m not on a “side”. I view actions (or inactions) on their own. To be honest, I really couldn’t care if Israel was the sole occupier of the area or the “Palestinians” (I actually dislike using the term because there never was a Palestine in place for them to use that term) are the sole occupier. What I am against is 60+ years of dragging the world through their crap. One side or the other needs to either take complete control or both sides need to understand it’s a stalemate and accept what they have.

When it comes to individual actions such as this flotilla disaster, I’m against the side of power claiming victim status to justify murder.

If that boat was filled with Jihadi terrorists as many claim, there wouldn’t be a commando left alive. They didn’t have enough ammunition to survive an onslaught of 100+ people armed with knives, pipes, slingshots, chairs, etc. The fact not a single commando was killed (remember 2 weapons were taken away by those on the boat) tells me these people were not “trained street fighters” or “terrorists”.

They most likely were average scared schlubs.

When encountering any type of resistance like this, it is best to use massive numbers or great force. Sending in commandos one by one while heavily outnumbered is asking for trouble. They made a tactical error, killed people in the process (which I call murder) and now want to claim they were the victims. They want it both ways. That is what I have a problem with.

The blockade has done nothing but make matters worse for Israelis. Who do you think is taking credit for things whenever they do come across? The average Joe? Not hardly, Hamas and other terrorist organizations take credit for providing goods and services to the people living under the blockade and blame Israel for making their lives miserable.

Who needs propaganda to create another generation of terrorists when actions like this are done? People living in Gaza cannot divorce themselves from the situation and pretend to be objective. They’re not allowed the liberty to see every side of every argument. Not that that excuse any future terrorist for future acts of terror. (Just as we killed Nazis who fought for Hitler without understanding the full facts before them). But that’s just it, if you’re going to fight them, fight them. Half measures one way or the other will just continue to drag this crap out generation after generation after generation.

Israel has not been consistent with the blockade. Allowing some ships to continue and then (once Hamas took control) going the full stop route. If they’re going to play hardball, then play hardball. Sink the ships. If you’re not, then at least plan ahead for tactical disasters like the one that just occurred. And that’s what this whole thing has been, a tactical error that cost lives that didn’t need to be spent.

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 2:04 PM

Thank you for your service, Ed.

kingsjester on May 31, 2010 at 2:04 PM

Ed thanks for your service!

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 2:01 PM

You’re welcome. And if you have any kids who are looking for a job, I’ve been to four of the six continents and met my wife of 17 years thanks to the United States Navy.

It’s been an adventure, indeed. I highly recommend it. :)

Ed Snyder on May 31, 2010 at 2:06 PM

The vassals were trying to run a Naval Blockade after having been warned multiple times and given instructions as to where to go to unload it’s “humanitarian” supplies.

And yes this gives them the reason to suspect the “humanitarian” supplies were not “humanitarian” supplies and most likely weapons.

I’m sure the Navy will give them a fine “how do you do!”
Most of the world understands that a US Navy ships have weapons on board cuz, uhmmm how do you say this? They are US Navy ships!

In other words ButterflyDragon, what doubt would Iran have about our US Navy ships and weapons?

You do know the US Navy is the Military, right?

DSchoen on May 31, 2010 at 1:58 PM

You’re trying to have it both ways. In fact, you’re using an argument that even Israel has not used yet to justify their actions.

If they believed the ship was carrying weapons, why would they send commandos rappelling down a rope one-by-one with paintball guns into the waiting arms of these smugglers?

That doesn’t even make sense.

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 2:08 PM

There is no interpretation open here, this is what happened. We will defend ourselves in Israel through force if necessary and we make ZERO apologies for this.

saus on May 31, 2010 at 1:58 PM

+10,000

AsianGirlInTights on May 31, 2010 at 2:09 PM

Obama’s fumbling in the Middle East with Israel and Iran will cause a nuclear war before he is done f’ing it up.

ray on May 31, 2010 at 2:10 PM

Israel has not been consistent with the blockade. Allowing some ships to continue and then (once Hamas took control) going the full stop route.
ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 2:04 PM

Maybe because Hamas has sworn to destory Israel? That could justify a change in tactics if the people in power across your border want to destory you.

And Israel is willing to let through true, inspected humanitarian aid, through its ports and then over land, because it recognizes that not everybody in Gaza is a combatant. The old, the sick and the young are entitled to humanitarian aid, and Israel has allowed that through, even though those in power, Hamas, have sworn to destroy Israel.

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 2:12 PM

Why would a vessel(s) attempt run a Naval Blockade if it were ONLY carrying “humanitarian” supplies?

DSchoen on May 31, 2010 at 1:58 PM

Three possibilities come to mind:

1. They’re just stupid
2. Trying to provoke conflict to be spun into a propaganda win
3. Carrying contraband

AsianGirlInTights on May 31, 2010 at 2:13 PM

The US Navy can and does board vessels in international waters during times of conflict. This is no different. Hamas is in conflict with Israel, therefore Israel is justified in stopping the ships anywhere other than another country’s territorial waters. QED

ray on May 31, 2010 at 2:13 PM

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 2:08 PM

IDF bravery never ceases to amaze me.

Ronnie on May 31, 2010 at 2:13 PM

Meanwhile from our great freind in the WOT, Iraq -

An Iraqi government official has condemned Israel’s attack on a Gaza-bound humanitarian aid flotilla on Monday.

The attack can only be described as a “new humanitarian disaster,” Khairallah al-Basri, a member of current premier Nuri al-Maliki’s State of Law coalition, told the German Press Agency dpa.

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 2:14 PM

FLASH: now only 9 dead – one must have risen from the grave

faraway on May 31, 2010 at 2:15 PM

The bleeding-hearts narrative about humanitarian aid to Gaza via the flotilla is just so-much propaganda. Food and aid regularly enter Gaza via Israel.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/05/026419.php

onlineanalyst on May 31, 2010 at 2:15 PM

If they believed the ship was carrying weapons, why would they send commandos rappelling down a rope one-by-one with paintball guns into the waiting arms of these smugglers?

That doesn’t even make sense.

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 2:08 PM

They didn’t know if there were weapons on board, but since they suspected it, they not only carried the paintball guns (if the “peace activists” turned out to be unarmed), they also carried pistols with live ammo.

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 2:16 PM

If that boat was filled with Jihadi terrorists as many claim, there wouldn’t be a commando left alive.

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 2:04 PM

While I don’t think they were terrorists on board their actions were violent in nature. Also, after the shoe bomber and underwear bomber etc etc you give terrorists far too much credit.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 2:20 PM

The fact not a single commando was killed (remember 2 weapons were taken away by those on the boat) tells me these people were not “trained street fighters” or “terrorists”.

They most likely were average scared schlubs.

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 2:04 PM

The “peace” activists beat up one of the first commandos and threw him off the top deck onto the lower deck. He was seriously injured. That doesn’t sound like average scared schlubs at work to me. Why were they carrying slingshots?

a capella on May 31, 2010 at 2:21 PM

They didn’t know if there were weapons on board, but since they suspected it, they not only carried the paintball guns (if the “peace activists” turned out to be unarmed), they also carried pistols with live ammo.

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 2:16 PM

Strange you have to tell that idiot something that was obvious and KNOWN. Sheesh. Are they letting grade schoolers online today?

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 2:21 PM

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: “All these acts indicate the end of the heinous and fake regime and will bring it closer to the end of its existence”.

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 2:21 PM

a capella on May 31, 2010 at 2:21 PM

Did not one video show an Israeli being knifed in the back ? (trick learned from liberals./)

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 2:22 PM

BOOOSH!
 
FWIW, I like the contact-us-for-the-coordinates-of-the-mines OR maintain-radio-silence-and-best-of-luck-to-your-little-boat approach someone posted earlier. Probably not feasible, but a clever idea.

rogerb on May 31, 2010 at 2:23 PM

Butterfly for the 3rd time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKOmLP4yHb4&feature=player_embedded#

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 1:26 PM

But at no point in that video is the ship told what repercussions will occur. That is what’s important. What was the response of the IDF when they heard “negative, our destination is Gaza”?

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 2:23 PM

They most likely were average scared schlubs.

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 2:04 PM

Not so scared that they couldn’t grab the pistols from some of the Israelis they attacked and start shooting. Amazing composure for a “scared schlub.” More like a trained terrorist.

Wethal on May 31, 2010 at 2:24 PM

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 2:21 PM

Isn’t it surprising that the Israelis tend to want to protect themselves when they have neighbors who hate them like Iran?/

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 2:24 PM

Chumpthreads- still crickets I see. You’re a child.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 2:24 PM

The US Navy can and does board vessels in international waters during times of conflict. This is no different. Hamas is in conflict with Israel, therefore Israel is justified in stopping the ships anywhere other than another country’s territorial waters. QED

ray on May 31, 2010 at 2:13 PM

They were flying a Turkish flag, not a flag of Hamas. Is Israel in conflict with Turkey?

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 2:25 PM

Just wanted to say thanks to all the Hotair commenters who are taking a stand & defending us in Israel from the usual lies & hatreds perpetrated by Islamists and their sicko leftwing unholy-alliance defenders.

As indicated by our lefty trolls,the left reliably ,inflexibly and perpetually sides with the terrorists.

Dr. Carlo Lombardi on May 31, 2010 at 2:27 PM

Can we cut it out with the libertarian bashing? This post has nothing to do with domestic flavors of conservatism. Both Dr. Paul’s support Israel’s right to exist, and to do so independent of US mettling(this includes ‘aid’)- and if their advice had been taken earlier, then this current rift with the obamateur wouldn’t be the existential crisis that it is.

abobo on May 31, 2010 at 2:28 PM

They were flying a Turkish flag, not a flag of Hamas. Is Israel in conflict with Turkey?

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 2:25 PM

Hamas controls Gaza, so any shipment going there is correctly assumed in support of hamas.

the_nile on May 31, 2010 at 2:28 PM

While I don’t think they were terrorists on board their actions were violent in nature. Also, after the shoe bomber and underwear bomber etc etc you give terrorists far too much credit.

CWforFreedom on May 31, 2010 at 2:20 PM

Don’t underestimate them. That’s how we lost 3000 people.

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 2:28 PM

US President Barack Obama postpones White House meeting with the Israeli prime minister, expresses “deep regret at loss of life.”

Tav on May 31, 2010 at 2:30 PM

They were flying a Turkish flag, not a flag of Hamas. Is Israel in conflict with Turkey?

ButterflyDragon on May 31, 2010 at 2:25 PM

Won’t be long before they are – sounds like mission accomplished to me.

Otis B on May 31, 2010 at 2:30 PM

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