The NERP Manifesto: Moderating the conservative msessage
posted at 8:15 pm on May 16, 2010 by Jazz Shaw
I was recently tasked with writing a column on the resurgence of Northeastern Republican Politicians. (Or NERPs) It was a fun topic to tackle, and one which I foolishly imagined the vast majority of conservatives and Republicans could embrace as “good news.” I was quickly disabused of this notion, however, when the usual parade of comments and e-mails emerged airing the same old litany of complaints.
“[A]re these “Republicans” of conservative persuasion or of the country club variety, which the northeast is infamous for producing?”
“Scott Brown is a place holder. Unless he votes like Snowe and Collins he will be defeated in the next cycle and he knows it. This is the only kind of Republican that can survive in the northeast.”
“You’re cheering for the election of so-called Republicans who are no different than Democrats. How nice for you.”
The fact is that some of these Republicans will not find favor among conservatives in other areas of the country. But while they may differ on some issues of the day, there are other core areas where they are still soul-mates of conservatives at large. When it comes to responses to the NERPS such as the ones I quote above, I do not place the blame for these knee-jerk reactions on our readers, but on the essential, long standing failures of the conservative media and punditocracy for most of the current generation. One of the enduring weaknesses in modern American conservatism is not in the message or principles being espoused, but in the difficulty encountered by so many proponents in articulating the message in a coherent fashion and deciding which elements of the conservative platform are common across the various factions within the Republican Party.
Even once you identify the very best elements which conservatism has to offer, it’s not always an easy task to get that message out because some of the most solid, winning aspects of conservative philosophy are arguments which are decidedly unpopular to people who may have a more populist leaning bent. This can and frequently does lead to a tendency toward extreme rhetoric and generalizations which leave the speaker short of ammunition under the harsh glare of the debate stage lights.
This critique was perhaps best stated by James Poulos, political editor of the tragically still unpublished magazine Culture 11. Analyzing the methods and message of the McCain – Palin team during the 2008 presidential election, he cautioned against arguments based on “zingers and chants. Those things are fine and natural ornaments for the election-year tree – but they do require a tree.”
That linked quote was lifted from Charles Homans’ excellent article in the Washington Monthly, Culture Shock: What happened when one conservative Web site ventured outside the movement bubble. I strongly recommend reading it, no matter what you may think of the publication in general. It draws heavily on Conor Friedersdorf’s 2008 manifesto, Electric Kool-Aid Conservatism. In it, the author speaks eloquently of the difficulty I addressed above regarding effective salesmanship and conservative ideology.
Nor is it always easy to make a positive case for a conservative theme. Take the argument for gradual social change, which is predicated on the notion that certain societal traditions add value we do not always fully understand. Even after the breakup of the nuclear family in African-American communities, for example, we cannot explain precisely why the absence of fathers has proven so disastrous, though facts confirm the effect so unambiguously that old conservative warnings are now accepted pop-culture themes.
Unfortunately, when a nuanced argument fails to present itself, the best ideas can be rapidly stuffed into a convenient political canister where they lose most of the merit we originally admired. This is the end result of our tendency to politicize each and every argument and immediately take it to its illogical extreme. This was perhaps best described recently by George Will, during an appearance on the Sunday morning ABC roundtable. He was discussing Arlen Specter’s oh so convenient conversion to the Democratic Party’s banner and talking points, calling it “agreeably free of any pretense of principle.” It’s a trap which we need to avoid when talking about conservative theory.
Examples of how we overly politicize even the best arguments abound. One of the most common and successful campaign talking points among Republicans this season is the need to return to fundamental constitutional principles. “Restoring and defending” the constitution is the rallying cry, and it’s a good one. We’ve clearly strayed far from the tenth amendment in our nation and it would be beneficial to elect a new generation of leaders who understand and embrace that idea.
But we also have supporters marching in the streets who manage to drag even that fine idea so far down the road that they wind up in a ditch. “Repeal the 16th and 17th amendments!” is one of the rallying cries of the day. “It’s what the founders intended!” Really? OK, I can see wanting to do away with the income taxes, providing you’ve got a functional replacement method of tax collection and appropriation in place first, but the 17th amendment?
Do you really want state governments picking your senators for you? That may sound like a fine idea for now if you happen to live in one of the flyover states, but what about in places like New York? Have you seen the government we’ve got in Albany? I wouldn’t trust them to pick out their own socks when dressing to go to work, say nothing of picking my senators. This is a case of a fine idea taken too far, leaving the speaker open to ridicule. It’s also worth mentioning that while the original constitution didn’t incorporate the idea of direct election of senators, once the 17th amendment was passed, it became part of the constitution. The document was structured with the ability to evolve as needs dictate, much the same as our society has evolved over time from the general look and feel it had during the days of the founders. (More on that below.)
Another example of damaging, excessive politicization is to be found on various issues of environmental protection. This is one battle front in the political arena where conservative thought leaders felt compelled to draw a line in the sand to differentiate themselves from liberals and have all too often wound up on the wrong side of the fence as a result.
In some areas this has worked out well enough, such as highlighting the increasingly clear case of junk science behind the global warming movement. A vigorous debate on climate change was badly needed and conservatives have done well on that front. But in other areas the tendency toward political bloodlust has ghettoized the movement. Take, for example, the liberal based plan to shut off all the lights and electrical equipment for an “Earth Hour” on Earth Day. No matter how silly you may personally find the idea, or how little energy it might actually save, how many of you found yourself agreeing with the former proprietor of Hot Air when she told everyone to turn all of their lights on for that same hour?
Really? Advising people to waste energy, not to mention driving up their personal electric bills to no useful purpose, simply to avoid looking like you agreed with somebody who could be classified as an environmentalist? Wasting money? What’s conservative about that? The answer is – nothing. It’s not conservatism. It’s pointless showmanship in the political wars which opens the speaker to verbal abuse and pollutes the conservative message.
Let’s turn our attention to another of the great rallying cries heard across the conservative media, blogs and social networks such as Twitter. “Socialism! Redistributionism! Obama’s a socialist and he wants to redistribute our wealth!” Well, you’re right. In fact, you are absolutely correct on all counts. He is and he does. Unfortunately, I have another news flash for you. You do not currently have any political leaders or elected officials who are not socialists and who don’t want to redistribute your wealth. They all do. And in that grouping I am including Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin and Marco Rubio. Socialist redistributionists one and all. The truth hurts, huh?
Don’t believe me? Find me one among them who wants to completely eliminate the process of taxation and appropriations by the federal government in all cases. Show me one of them who is actively campaigning to totally and immediately eliminate Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and every other social safety net program that we have. How many of them would qualify by that criteria? The answer is… zero. The only difference is that the conservative Republicans want a bit less socialism with their coffee in the morning, thank you. It’s all a matter of degrees, and there is a valid, needed argument to be made by conservatives on this score. But, yet again, when you take it to an extreme and just start shouting about socialist America without being ready to tackle the nuanced details of the argument, you play the fool and provide free ammunition to your opponent.
And how about taxes? “Tax and spend Democrats” is probably one of the most common themes in conservative literature. Tea Party groups once again held massive rallies on April 15th this year (trust me… I was at three of them) to protest high taxes. But when confronted by reporters, some of them were unable to come to grips with the fact that the current President passed a fairly sizable tax cut during his first days in office. This led to more headlines proclaiming that nearly half of all Americans paid no federal income tax, prompting conservatives to fly into another round of complaints saying that the government that is taxing us too much should be… ummm… taxing more people? This allowed liberal bloggers to have a field day making fun of the “uninformed” Tea Party protesters.
Underneath all of that there remains a completely valid conservative argument, in that the tax load is unequal and biased against the wealthy and successful in terms of the income tax, while the majority of the rising taxes and fees being laid upon the middle class are hidden inside of glitzy packages like the health care bill. But it’s not the pithy sort of argument which fits neatly onto a bumper sticker or in a 140 character Twitter tweet. More study and nuance is required to articulate the message.
This whole discussion of taxation and redistribution brings us back to the concept of a slowly evolving American society as mentioned earlier. America was born without the idea of social safety nets for the most vulnerable among us. Does that make the idea of returning to those roots a good one, or something that should be framed as the intentions of the founding fathers? Perhaps one of the saddest moments of the 2008 election season was when a news crew caught on camera a group of young College Republicans at a rally supporting Rick Santorum. They were marching in a circle, chanting, “Hey Hey! Ho Ho! Social Security has got to go!” This wound up running in a loop on MSNBC for the better part of a week and was embraced by many liberals as the “face of modern conservatism.”
Conservatives have a great, winning message on this front, and some of you are getting it out there. But there are still a few of the “Hey Hey Ho Ho” folks banging the Socialism Drum and polluting the debate. And they will always be the ones who catch the headlines.
America has evolved into a nation which believes in safety nets for those in crisis. The America we had before the installation of these protections wasn’t all that pretty. Just ask the people who lived through the great influenza pandemic of 1918. Nearly 700,000 Americans lost their lives and not all of them directly from the flu. Otherwise successful, responsible families lost all of their income and savings to medical bills and funeral expenses, lost income from having no primary breadwinner, and saw people literally starving to death in the streets. During the great depression, untold numbers waited in bread and soup lines, living in makeshift shanty towns and dying from exposure.
There’s an old saying – one which I’ve employed myself – about how it is easy to be liberal when you are young and in college. Later, when you have to pay taxes, run a business and plan for your retirement, conservative values begin to look more appealing. But by the same token, please remember that it’s easy to oppose the idea of a socialist, redistributionist safety net when you are young, strong, healthy and employed. If a few disasters hit you when you’re getting on in years and looking at retirement, some of those same programs may begin to look less evil.
The fact is, we have evolved into a nation which actively seeks to avoid situations like the ones described above from the early 20th century, and sees the federal government as part of the remedy. Does this mean that conservatives shouldn’t be talking about issues like social security, Medicare and welfare? Not at all. These systems are in dire trouble and need to be fixed before they take the rest of the government down with them. But, again, the message here is to moderate the discussion and present reasoned arguments about how best to manage the system. The safety net should provide relief in crisis, but not be so comfortable that people are inclined to remain hanging in it. The conservative message is that any living gained by dint of personal labor and responsibility must always be more attractive, profitable and enjoyable than living within the confines of a safety net or welfare trap. And with that in mind, you may remember that simply blasting messages on your Twitter account decrying “leftists” and the “welfare state” is not helping the cause. By talking smarter you bring more people around to logical conclusions on such questions.
In summary, (for those of you who actually manged to hang on long enough to make it to the end of this bizarrely long manifesto) Republicans seem poised to make a startling comeback during the mid-term elections of 2010, and I suspect many of you would like to not only retake, but hold that ground for the long game. You may disagree with them on some issues, (and yes – I’m talking to you, social conservatives) but the fact is, you are never, ever going to do that without the NERPs. But if you identify the really important conservative values and principles which can be shared across a wide audience, including Republicans of all stripes and moderates and independents as well, there is opportunity awaiting if you communicate effectively. Sticking to smart arguments and not settling for demonizing an entire swath of the population should be integral to the difficult task of articulating the conservative message.
I know plenty of Democrats and liberals, which is not surprising since I live in New York. (Hell, I’m married to one.) There are elements of liberal political philosophy which are actually helpful and intelligent. But when taken too far, they turn into disaster. I’m afraid the exact same can be said for Right wing theories of government as well. And yet day after day I am deluged with rhetoric saying this or that about “leftists” and “the Left” and Democrats, commies, socialists, lions, tigers and bears, oh my! Eventually it just melds into an annoying background buzz. The shortcoming here is that it seeks to oversimplify something which is far too complex and demonizes people who may actually be very pure of intent and who actually do love their country, but have a somewhat misguided vision of where we need to be going and how best to get there.
You attract more flies with honey than with vinegar, as my grandmother used to say. (Though Woody Harrelson still maintains you catch the most with dead squirrels.) And you win more debates and political converts with smart, well reasoned arguments than smarmy insults and glossy accusations. If you’re a conservative, you have a tougher message to sell in a nation which has steeped for several generations in comfort and entitlement. Be sure to make the best argument you can and find good allies wherever they may present themselves.
This post was promoted from GreenRoom to HotAir.com.
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I saw NERF.
profitsbeard on May 16, 2010 at 8:22 PM
The “we” are morons.
Akzed on May 16, 2010 at 8:22 PM
More like Smurf.
Fletch54 on May 16, 2010 at 8:24 PM
Will they fight to repeal ObamaCare?
Will they block cap-and-tax?
Will they block amnesty for millions of illegal aliens who, unlike legal aliens, have not earned their citizenship?
Will they vote to preserve rather than damage individual liberties? Will they block the Nanny State’s encroachments?
If they are squishy on these issues, conservatives should have no use for them.
Edouard on May 16, 2010 at 8:29 PM
Wow… long article. NERPs seems way too broad a term. For example, New Hampshire Conservatives strike me as being somewhat different than say Scott Brown Republicans…
MeatHeadinCA on May 16, 2010 at 8:30 PM
What’s a msessage?
katy on May 16, 2010 at 8:34 PM
This is why Jazz Shaw has a problem thinking/writing sensibly; to write, “You do not currently have any political leaders or elected officials who are not socialists and who don’t want to redistribute your wealth. They all do. And in that grouping I am including Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin and Marco Rubio. Socialist redistributionists one and all. The truth hurts, huh?” requires possessing a certain amount of liberal constipation mixed with the commensurate degree of right-ish vocabulary…all while stirring with a vapid amount of relativism.
None of which tends to produce coherent – much less rational - thought.
Lockstein13 on May 16, 2010 at 8:35 PM
Thought provoking piece, thanks for writing it. I agree that too many times debates turn into bumper sticker slogans and fails to convince those on the other side.
However I’m failing to see how “NERPs” fall into this. Are you saying the NERPs have been making more reasoned and nuanced arguments about taxes, spending, and the environment than non-NERPs? You give examples of bumper sticker slogans Tea Partiers use, but please show me the numberous times where the Maine sisters, Arlen Specter, or any other NERP make better arguments based in conservative principles and not populism.
Stimulus anyone?
akaag on May 16, 2010 at 8:43 PM
Whatever.
No one will nut-up as an honest conservative but people will question your conservatism if you do not embrace non-dem candidates. Write whatever you will – it will be a long time til we see a hero or heroine with a powerfully large set.
ericdijon on May 16, 2010 at 8:46 PM
Is this guy seriously one of ours?
astonerii on May 16, 2010 at 8:48 PM
Disagree on the general principle of capitulation, but well said and respectfully done. CK could take a lesson from this.
MadisonConservative on May 16, 2010 at 8:53 PM
The shot at Michelle Malkin was gratuitous and unnecessary.
Paul Revere_1 on May 16, 2010 at 9:06 PM
As a NY state resident…..You DO know who the people of New York currently have elected to the senate…right? Do you really think it could be any worse?
clement on May 16, 2010 at 9:09 PM
I think this post may have been longer than the Health Care Bill.
bw222 on May 16, 2010 at 9:14 PM
RINO!
Dandapani on May 16, 2010 at 9:14 PM
THE DAVID CAMERONING OF THE GOP?
Uh, no we’ve already been BUSHED, thank you.
PappyD61 on May 16, 2010 at 9:18 PM
and I still am not sure what the point is.
AnninCA on May 16, 2010 at 9:25 PM
O/T, but I take it that’s pretty much OK here.
Sarah has vastly upset Obamaland. She has joined up with AZ Jan Brewer to defend AZ.
It’s a fabulous story.
AnninCA on May 16, 2010 at 9:26 PM
You seem to conflate a lot of arguments together, and then have a hard time understanding your opponents reasoning.
Lets focus, just as an example, on the Tea Party, and their frustration with taxation.
The Tea Partiers are, predominantly, tax payers. This is an important fact. This fact destroys your argument for why they are wrong about wanting lower taxes.
“Nearly half of all Americans pay no federal taxes.” Yes – and that’s a tragedy. Because that means that these Americans can continue to vote for more and more largesse from the treasury, and, this is vital, suffer absolutely no consequence for it.
The fact that they can vote for the Government to spend money, but that others have to pay for it, is most definitely a form of wealth redistribution.
Which brings us back to the tea parties.
You see, because the tea parties are made up mostly of the middle class, they are most often the ones that they have to pay a high percentage of taxes. For two reasons: One, they make enough money to qualify as “rich” to the Progressives and liberals, and two, they do not have the kinds of investments that the “rich” have to use as tax breaks.
Therefore, yes, they are simultaneously asking to raise taxes and lower taxes.
This is because we have a progressive (as opposed to Progressive, haha) tax code. I don’t know if you realized that. I mean, I paid the federal government a lot of GD money last year in taxes. A lot. Enough to buy a new Civic. That, to me, is too much.
Especially considering half of Americans don’t pay taxes.
See how that’s not a contradictory statement? Trust me, it’s not.
Your argument about the 17th amendment is similar, as is the “oh man when kids grow up without fathers they turn out bad. I don’t get that at all!” which wasn’t even an argument really.
Like I get the overall point – the point is “baby steps” … The problem is two fold.
Firstly, as Ace pointed out the other day, doing what you say requires the Truth, and the 20-35% of “moderates” that are really just wishy-washy vote with their feelings jackasses don’t want to hear the Truth. They want to hear what makes them feel good. If The Truth worked, we’d have a helluva lot more Chris Christies out there, and a lot less Harry Reids. In other words, you’re saying that you need a “tree”, I’m saying you don’t. Obama getting elected pretty much blows the core of your argument right out the window. I won’t say he didn’t have a single substantial policy, but other than “Bush bad!” and “Hope good!” he didn’t have much.
He certainly didn’t have five.
Secondly, baby steps themselves don’t seem to work. Baby steps got us Medicare. Baby steps got us McCain Feingold. Baby steps got us ever increasing taxes on an ever decreasing percentage of the population, and a tax code that makes words like “byzantine” and “labryinthine” seem strangely inadequate. Baby steps got us McCain, and defeat. Did Rubio take baby steps?
Hell, did Christie take baby steps?
Not no, but HELL no. Christie stood up and said, “I’m going to gut this government” and people voted him in! And now he’s doing it! It’s hard work, but he’s getting the job done, and New Jesery now has a chance for recovery.
The one time that the Truth might have actually worked – and when it did, it was because he wasn’t taking baby steps. He wasn’t doing “one thing at a time” he was going whole hog.
So yeah, I dunno man. Moderation?
I just don’t know. Hasn’t worked so far.
apollyonbob on May 16, 2010 at 9:28 PM
Traffic is way down……….way to go!!!!!
dmann on May 16, 2010 at 9:30 PM
Everyone likes to blame the Northeast, but some of the most notorious leftists in the nation, along with some of the most pain in the ass Republicans, come from places OTHER than the Northeast.
Blaming the Northeast is a red herring. How many red, non N.E. states went blue this year?
Hm? But I forgot, it’s all our fault up here.
It’s a Sunday. Traffic always drops on the weekend.
blatantblue on May 16, 2010 at 9:32 PM
So, we should lie, exaggerate and say whatever is needed based on the crowd you are speaking to just to get votes. Sounds…very democrat party-ish.
I agree on the smarmy aspect, but with our ADD culture and the ignorance of the general masses, well reasoned arguments get ignored.
Nah, it will just take someone brave enough to tell people that if the current entitlement ideology keeps up and expands they are screwed.
Good allies…you mean, “cross the aisle”, gang of 12, bend you over and smile allies?
No thanks.
Unfortunately this country needs a good stewing in the burning juices of the liberal recipe they have voted into power. Let ‘em burn awhile, then they will start wondering the stove is hot when the light is on.
exsanguine on May 16, 2010 at 9:34 PM
The past election, rather.
blatantblue on May 16, 2010 at 9:35 PM
By the by
Up here in NE land
We got the whole town hall movement going. Our town hall meeting with Tim Bishop was one of the very first on the scene, and the first to be picked up and noticed. We got the ball rolling. I just like to remind folks of that.
blatantblue on May 16, 2010 at 9:38 PM
Way too long. Leads me to the inevitable conclusion that it’s bs masquerading as deep thought. Conservatism is easy. It’s called common sense. Liberalism is easy, too. It’s called statism, elitism, and fantasy.
I like my Rinos in the zoo.
ncjetsfan on May 16, 2010 at 9:39 PM
Some pals of mine did that, and I just shook my head.
blatantblue on May 16, 2010 at 9:42 PM
Who wants to attract flies? Catch them maybe, but attract them? This whole article, what little I have read of the sleep inducing conglomeration, will probably attract flies.
Brevity is the essence of wit, as my grandmother used to say.
Cheshire Cat on May 16, 2010 at 9:42 PM
You’re really gonna trash Malkin here? Who the hell thought it was a good idea to promote this to front page? And your point against Malkin is crap, the whole turn your lights on is about rebellion against stupid, ineffective displays orchestrated by leftists, which we’re all to fall in line with liberal cant like good little conformists. Not interested in playing their little social engineering games.
A few extra shekels in utilities and gasoline, and a smaller store of fine tobacco, even on my meager budget, as a giant middle finger to the left is well worth it to me. It’s not fear of association with environmentalists that we do this, but a outward expression of rejection of the modern environmentalist movement and their dogma.
The sad thing is I’m totally with you on promoting RINO types in deep blue territory, but you’re an absolute prick for trashing Malkin in the house she founded, and a person nearly all readers here hold a high regard for.
doubleplusundead on May 16, 2010 at 9:42 PM
You’re really gonna trash Malkin here? Who thought it was a good idea to promote this to front page? And your point against Malkin is crap, the whole turn your lights on is about rebellion against stupid, ineffective displays orchestrated by leftists, which we’re all to fall in line with liberal cant like good little conformists. Not interested in playing their little social engineering games.
A few extra shekels in utilities and gasoline, and a smaller store of fine tobacco, even on my meager budget, as a giant middle finger to the left is well worth it to me. It’s not fear of association with environmentalists that we do this, but a outward expression of rejection of the modern environmentalist movement and their dogma.
The sad thing is I’m totally with you on promoting RINO types in deep blue territory, but you’re an absolute tool for trashing Malkin in the house she founded, and a person nearly all readers here hold a high regard for.
doubleplusundead on May 16, 2010 at 9:44 PM
Don’t waste your time dmann. Blantant will always be here to lick the up the mess…
katy on May 16, 2010 at 9:44 PM
As usual, you are very substantive.
However, my point stands. The weekends have ALWAYS been slower. I know you may not….
but many readers go out and…
do things on the weekends, you know?
blatantblue on May 16, 2010 at 9:48 PM
Keep slurpin’ that chicken.
katy on May 16, 2010 at 9:50 PM
I realize that it is hard for someone like you (an emotional, hyperventilating harpy) to pay attention to the rhythms and shifts in traffic from week to weekend, but I think you may find it beneficial to actually give things a look over for once.
blatantblue on May 16, 2010 at 9:50 PM
Yah Baby!!
katy on May 16, 2010 at 9:52 PM
No, blatantblue is right, all blogs have a significant drop in traffic on weekends.
doubleplusundead on May 16, 2010 at 9:52 PM
Again, you really put on a display of your maturity, offering something of substance like that.
Pathetic.
blatantblue on May 16, 2010 at 9:55 PM
2 slurpies for the price of one.
katy on May 16, 2010 at 9:55 PM
Try again Fluffy, things are busy at the HARP.
And surprise, it’s the weekend.
Knucklehead on May 16, 2010 at 9:56 PM
That was stupid, Jazz.
pugwriter on May 16, 2010 at 9:57 PM
Why all the emotion BB? Do you…like me…?
katy on May 16, 2010 at 9:58 PM
Unable to view. However, it’s easy to appear “busy” with a select cadre of hardcore constituents. 300 members isn’t the same as, say, a million or two readers.
Differences. Learn them.
blatantblue on May 16, 2010 at 9:59 PM
Unlike you, dpdead has a blog. He would know. You do not.
But keep going with the inane sexual innuendo. Shows your age
blatantblue on May 16, 2010 at 10:00 PM
BB… your inner fluffer is showing.
katy on May 16, 2010 at 10:00 PM
Another product of the NEA spewing a meandering diatribe…sad.
That read like Frumby on drugs…
jerrytbg on May 16, 2010 at 10:00 PM
doubleplusundead on May 16, 2010 at 9:44 PM
You fail.
doubleplusundead on May 16, 2010 at 10:01 PM
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer but I kind of doubt you have either, garage band boy.
Knucklehead on May 16, 2010 at 10:02 PM
Actually, that was spot on.
katy on May 16, 2010 at 10:03 PM
LOL garage band. Now THAT’S a good one.
blatantblue on May 16, 2010 at 10:03 PM
Fine, but you didn’t have to post the whole damn thing here.
donh525 on May 16, 2010 at 10:04 PM
See? You can’t argue with people like Katy.
The fact that weekend traffic is ALWAYS lower than weekly traffic is something that she fails to understand.
blatantblue on May 16, 2010 at 10:05 PM
anyway, let’s continue on with the topic at hand, eh?
blatantblue on May 16, 2010 at 10:06 PM
Oh my… that sucking sound is getting louder.
katy on May 16, 2010 at 10:06 PM
Here’s the good news. We just brought the post count up by 23.
katy on May 16, 2010 at 10:09 PM
and with that you really just kill the thread. good job. goodnight on this one.
and to think, you didn’t provide one single, solitary comment that had anything of substance. the worst part of all? you have the gall to label yourself as an adult.
blatantblue on May 16, 2010 at 10:13 PM
I find the frantic defenses of a few commenters of Michelle’s supposedly violated honor to be, well, kinda creepy. The original piece’s point was critical, but not disrespectful. What’s wrong with calling a bad idea a bad idea, regardless of the source of it?
AngusMc on May 16, 2010 at 10:13 PM
No, you fail.
blatantblue is absolutely right about traffic dropping on weekends, and you’re out of line for going at him. There’s plenty to criticize Jazz Shaw of the Moderate (but reliably liberal) Voice for, but causing the weekend traffic drop is not one of them. Granted, I have no idea why they threw Shaw a set of keys to this place to begin with.
Look at Ace’s Sitemeter, broken down by days in the month, notice that traffic is high for five days, then drops for two, then high for five, then down for two? Yeah, weekend traffic drop, same thing happens at Hotair, at Right Wing News and the same thing happens at my site. I’d love to blame the weekend traffic drop on Shaw, but despite his best efforts, it’s not his fault.
doubleplusundead on May 16, 2010 at 10:14 PM
You’re sweet… ;)
katy on May 16, 2010 at 10:17 PM
You guys are adorable.
katy on May 16, 2010 at 10:19 PM
First off, Malkin’s idea wasn’t a bad idea (because frankly, half of the right blogosphere had come to that conclusion already), second off, would you take gratuitous shots at William F. Buckley if you were writing a column for National Review? No, it’d be a douchebaggy move, so why do it at Hotair?
doubleplusundead on May 16, 2010 at 10:20 PM
How do you explain the drop here during the week then?
It’s always something with you – the Easter weekend, summertime, etc.
In the meantime, HARP scoops HA on just about every story and discusses things a lot more substantial the the crap that passes for info here.
darwin-t on May 16, 2010 at 10:21 PM
darwin-t on May 16, 2010 at 10:21 PM
I’m sure harp will cover the next Iranian crisis or time square crisis better than hot air. Hahaha
as per overall drop, a mixture
disaffected pansy readers
people going outside more with nice weather. Ain’t winter weather anymore
some people politiked out after healthcare passage. A number of things
but some people with their one track minds will blame ap. Silly
blatantblue on May 16, 2010 at 10:33 PM
Hey BB, how did you know how many members we have if you can’t see us? hummmmmm?
katy on May 16, 2010 at 10:34 PM
Before we had the FDA, we had snake oil salesmen in the streets and the Swift Beef plants killing people.
Clinton and Bush slashed the FDA and USDA inspections, and we’ve had more cases of contaminated foods and questionably marketed “remedies” as a result.
funky chicken on May 16, 2010 at 10:39 PM
Note to author.
docdave on May 16, 2010 at 10:42 PM
Hey BB, how did you know how many members we have if you can’t see us? hummmmmm?
katy on May 16, 2010 at 10:34 PM
A guess. An educated guess
get sent to my home page.
blatantblue on May 16, 2010 at 10:42 PM
riiiiight.
katy on May 16, 2010 at 10:50 PM
Shaw was already polluting an otherwise great site “American Thinker”, now I see he is peddling his nonsense over here too. This overlong, unnecessary lecture deserves to be ignored. It is based on one faulty assumption after another, reflecting the authors distorted view of the populace from where he sits.
Conservative ideas are popular when expressed in a confident, common sense manner. I think most people will find guys like Paul Ryan very compelling, we need more like him. Whatever is done with these NERP’s, they need to embrace conservative values, we don’t need to become “Democrat lite” to appease them.
If Republicans are truly the party who likes socialism a little bit less, than we are doomed and we might as well throw in the towel now. We are way beyond safety nets for those in crisis, now the nets themselves are causing the crisis because they have become unaffordable. I think the majority of people recognize that and are ready to deal with it. Getting soft won’t help.
echosyst on May 16, 2010 at 10:58 PM
Ask knuckle Katy.
Anway hope the discussion gets back on topic after katys derailment. Night.
blatantblue on May 16, 2010 at 10:59 PM
Why not? I think Buckley could handle being criticized, even in his own magazine. How horrific for one to be questioned on one’s own former blog! How will Michelle ever recover without you fighting for her maidenly virtue?
And yes, deliberately wasting energy was just as dumb as the liberal “lights out” nonsense. Would it be smart to protest our reliance on Middle East oil, for example, by deliberately wasting gasoline? Or protest excessive taxation by emptying our bank accounts and setting all our cash on fire?
AngusMc on May 16, 2010 at 11:01 PM
This guy is blind as a bat. We are on the titanic and the iceberg is in sight. We turn now or we’re all taking a bath. People like Jazz ensure that we won’t, so the best advice for the rest of us is to buy a wetsuit.
Here is a nice little statistic to prove my point. Medicare/medicaid, social security, government pensions, and debt interest payments total roughly %86 of total government revenue. That means if we were to cut all programs, other than those listed above, including the military %100, and completely eliminate them then we would only see a %14 surplus. Remember the boomers haven’t all retired yet, so the costs of these programs is still rising. The time to play nicey, nice is over. This is about survival now, and not civility. You want to see incivility, then just wait and do nothing.
DFCtomm on May 16, 2010 at 11:35 PM
Respect. I’ve written at Right Wing News and Ace’s, I would not take aggressive shots at either Ace or John Hawkins, even if they had retired from their respective sites while I was there. If I had a disagreement with either I’d do it off site, in as mild a manner as possible. Shaw could have picked any number of examples to make his (nonsensical) point. And yes, Malkin can defend herself, but that doesn’t mean I can’t call out what I think is a crappy move on Shaw’s part.
We’ll probably end up burning all our cash soon anyway…
doubleplusundead on May 16, 2010 at 11:43 PM
I thought it was a good piece. Made some fair points.
a capella on May 17, 2010 at 12:13 AM
Remember those silly colonists who wasted all of that precious tea by dumping it into the harbor back on December 16, 1773? Pointless showmanship. It polluted their message.
hillbillyjim on May 17, 2010 at 12:16 AM
Why in God’s name does Jazz Shaw write for Hot Air! The guy has an instinctive nature to constantly kick conservatives in the balls.
Uncle Seth The Noble on May 17, 2010 at 12:42 AM
These so called modern day conservatives deserve to be kicked in the balls. Tell me something you present day geniuses was there a Cap and Trade bill when he had liberals, moderates, and conservatives? Was there an Obamacare when we had liberals, moderates, and conservatives?
The conservatives drove the message given by the leadership. Get that? Understand? It is the leadership that drives the agenda. No majorities, no leadership, no power. This is about power and for some reason too many of these so called conservatives have no grasp of that.
Jdripper on May 17, 2010 at 1:03 AM
The harsh truth. I found the essay gaseous and useless to our struggle, this crisis the Left (with the collusion of weak and faithless Republicans) has forced upon America. “Modulate” and “moderate” yourself into oblivion –we’re at war with an utterly remorseless anti-American movement. Accept this fact, then find the most effective and intelligent response.
rrpjr on May 17, 2010 at 1:06 AM
Moderate our message? Isn’t that precisely how we got where we are, while the other side lies through their borrowed teeth?
The truth shall set you free but we spend all our time deciding that saying it, preaching it, living it, is stupid….duh?
Fire them all -particularly these enemies of truth.
If you tell it -they will come!
Don L on May 17, 2010 at 4:28 AM
To the contrary, Jazz, some “conservative” writers, such as you, have helped to make the conservative-minded community look like fools by demeaning legitimate science and scientists, most especially in the matter of global climate change.
oakland on May 17, 2010 at 6:33 AM
This article is a message of despair and resignation: “nothing will change and nothing you do can change the current political culture.” There is no hope and no optimism in this message. Suck it up – we must accept the status quo. Move along, there is nothing to see here. Channeling David Frum, David Brooks, and Christopher Buckley, simultaneously.
WordsMatter on May 17, 2010 at 7:25 AM
You’re completely off the beam here. Not all taxes are redistributive. Redistributive taxes are ones that take from one group and give to another group. Many taxes take from all (taxpayers) for purposes which, at least arguably, benefit all citizens. Like taxes spent on highways, police and fire, national defense, and so forth.
If the taxes are spent on purposes directed at specific slices of the population, then they are redistributive, and should be vigorously opposed.
seanrobins on May 17, 2010 at 7:33 AM
Bloggers that don’t understand the difference between a tax cut and a tax credit shouldn’t be posting on HA.
visions on May 17, 2010 at 7:33 AM
If I wanted to be scolded and preached to I would have read Ed Morrissey. He usually does that in fewer words.
SKYFOX on May 17, 2010 at 8:05 AM
You can also attract a great number of flies with fecal matter.
oldleprechaun on May 17, 2010 at 8:07 AM
Nor should blggers who don’t understand that accepting Social Security and Medicare as givens does not mean that we have to accept government ownership of banks, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, General Motors, GMAC, and the entire student lending business. Social insurance is not socialism. Government takeovers of productive private businesses and pretty much all access to capital is.
I am sick to death of this strawman argument that being a conservative means you don’t want ANY government and you MUST take your position to its logical conclusion by demanding repeal of the Clean Air Act and Social Security and Medicare and that conservatives don’t want roads and schools and police. This is sophomoric playground kind of stuff. People who write this crap do not belong on this blog.
rockmom on May 17, 2010 at 8:09 AM
Yes I do. And when they appoint idiots the people will vote them out and vote in people who aren’t as corrupt. The national politicians live in a protected bubble and they can’t escape the wrath of the people, the state guys actually live and have businesses in our neighborhoods, they don’t get away with stupid decisions . That’s how the system is supposed to work. The 17th amendment pretty well created a protected class and at every turn they enact laws that protect themselves even more.
The writer is obviously an inside the beltway slug and has either forgotten or has never experienced local politics.
I read the entire essay and it’s my opinion that it was written by someone significantly to the left of brooks. The essay is full of all the typical liberal word games and the message from the liberal writer to us is, “you conservatives might as well bend over and grab your ankles and enjoy it.” The problem is that while a significant majority of the country lives by conservative values, a significant portion does not have the time, intellectual ability, patience or passion to dig through the constant leftist attack on those public persons who espouse conservative values and policies. Those like bill bennett who constantly trumpet “civility” don’t get it. They are too close to the enemy, they enjoy dinner parties and golf outings with the same people we watch lie and demagogue on the television every day. That’s why when that dimwit said pelosi was a nice person most of the country was astounded and amused. The people in washington, democarts, republicans and media alike, look at pelosi as thier peer and the rest of us as noisy rabble they unfortunately have to deal with. If republicans really want to champion conservative policies and values they have to get right in the faces of thier “good friend and colleague” and call them on thier dishonesty. Conservatives have to stop going on tv shows like maher’s and stewart’s. If conservatives stop giving them cannon fodder then it will become liberals ranting just like liberal radio and the chimps that attend the shows and watch will eventaully get bored and fade away. And when one of these idiot reporters, and don’t be fooled by thier journalism degrees (and most don’t even have journalism degrees, they have “communications” degrees) most of them are idiots, asks an obnoxious “do you still beat your wife” question they need to be schooled effectively and brutally if necessary. Republicans, when they are actually conservatives, can fight back forcefully without calling names or being dishonest like the liberals. Getting the truth to the large portion of the American electorate who are conservatives and don’t even realize it is what republicans and conservatives need to focus on, not accepting the bs media and fake conservative theme that a march to the left is inevitable.
peacenprosperity on May 17, 2010 at 8:12 AM
Yep. Over at Pajamas Media, too, sadly.
Maybe it’S their hat tip to Cultural Marxismmmm…err…I mean, Political Correctness.
Lockstein13 on May 17, 2010 at 8:15 AM
We have a liberal grenwhich village denizen and a shameless, cut and paste, self promoting squishy running the show now. Does it matter?
peacenprosperity on May 17, 2010 at 8:20 AM
The government you have in Albany is representative of and reflective of New Yorkers. Why would the same people that vote for terrible state reps vote for better Senate candidates? Whats your logic here. You chose the people in Albany!
Your argument here is also weak on the technical issue of constitutional separation of powers. Each branch of government was supposed to have its own power base to make it independent of the others. The House reps the people, the Pres the electoral college (elected by the states), and the senate was to rep States and in particular state governments. That is why senate representation is actually fairer than people think(or was originally), each state has one state government that get 2 senators. If your going to argue that the senate should reflect the will of the people senate seats should be distributed proportionally by population.
The thing that your article ignores is probably the greatest contradiction in modern conservative/ republican politics, and that is defense spending. You cannot argue for fiscal sanity at home while we blow a trill a year propping up Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq.
snoopicus on May 17, 2010 at 8:25 AM
Shaw’s most important message is that you can’t trust Republicans to be consistently conservative at all times, no matter what political subdivision they represent. Conservatives have learned this lesson over and over. The rest of Shaw’s article is gibberish and drivel.
WordsMatter on May 17, 2010 at 8:26 AM
Nothing betrays the idiocy of the left more than when a liberal carries on about how conservatives don’t want schools, teachers, police, etc. More often than not, it confirms for me the quicksand that is the “foundation” of liberalism and how little most liberals truly explore the underlying reasons for their beliefs. As a person who has made the journey from the far left to conservatism, I know better than many how bankrupt the leftist utopia vision is.
WordsMatter on May 17, 2010 at 8:32 AM
What is with this message schiest. The Tea Party and others have stated very clearly that DC and message guys are out of touch and do not get it.
The last thing we need is a 12th grade essay on what other, in the beltway types, have found that will tweek the message.
It is going to be an interesting Summer and Fall. 900= days of the one is 800 too many.
Col.John Wm. Reed on May 17, 2010 at 8:35 AM
From now on use the above as your tagline and save us the mental agony of having to read another tiresome Brooks/Frum/Parker-esque load of RINO bull!
RMR on May 17, 2010 at 10:09 AM
You cannot have a strong 10th Amendment without the states having a voice in the Federal government. That is what the Senate was, a body of people representing their state’s government. In one idiotic move, the American people destroyed the Constitution. Senators would now be more likely to vote according to what the fickle constituency wanted, not what their stat’se government wanted. That is why we got stradled with such fine legislation such as Medicare/Medicaid, EPA, etc. This old system worked well, very well. It kept the Federal Government in check, it prevented the Fed’s passing on the cost of whatever law that was passed, onto the states. Now look at us. The states can’t even move without Daddy FedGov giving approval. No, having the people choose the senators was a huge colossal mistake by the people. So yes, Mr. Shaw, the 17th Amendment should be repealed, along with the 16th. Neither fixed a problem in the Constitution, such as the amendments correcting the issue of slavery, but rather started the path towards the abandonment of the ideals bestowed upon us by men far smarter than us.
TQM38a on May 17, 2010 at 10:09 AM
No, I want state legislatures doing it, which isn’t quite the same thing. The framers didn’t anticipate the modern phenomenon of the legislature passing broad, general laws, and leaving it to executive agencies to promulgate detailed regulations to enforce those laws; they gave the state governors the power to appoint Senators only temporarily until the legislature could do its job.
The election of the Senate by the state legislatures served as a counterbalance to the centripetal force of the Supremacy Clause.
Remember the 55-mph speed limit, and the 21-year-old drinking age? Neither of those were enacted directly by Congress; it was well understood that even Wickard didn’t confer it that much power. Instead, these laws said that each state would have to pass a law meeting certain criteria, and that a US agency would monitor to be sure the states were enforcing those laws satisfactorily. Any state that failed to do both of these things could lose all of the “federal” money to help pay for highways.
I can’t imagine a sitting US Senator, or even a Representative thinking of running for Senate, who would vote in favor of a bill that blackmailed the legislators he needed to get (re)elected. I am not aware of any law employing such a mechanism prior to the 16th and 17th Amendments taking so much power away from state legislators.
The 9th and 10th Amendments had their teeth removed by the 16th and 17th.
The Monster on May 17, 2010 at 10:09 AM
This whole thread gave me a headache.
I want my money back.
S. Weasel on May 17, 2010 at 10:17 AM
What is your point. We will never be able to precisely explain human relations. There are to many uncontrollable variables. That doesn’t invalidate the observations that children without fathers generally do more poorly than those with fathers.
chemman on May 17, 2010 at 10:24 AM
I’ll just take one shot at the McCain-Palin campaign, and it wasn’t about ‘zingers’ and ‘ornaments’.
There was no centralizing message nor theme to the campaign and it was absolutely unwilling to run a ground game through the counties that HRC took during the D primaries. Those counties were ones that were not enthused with Obama and were receptive to a strong female voice speaking up for the common man and woman.
In goint to DC to ‘save’ the economy and get a massive spending bill passed that was then redirected within hours of passage to something it was not passed for, Sen. McCain lost all fiscal conservative credos he had attempted to build up via his no earmarks policy for himself… not for any committees he chaired, just himself. He went from ‘maverick’ to ‘DC insider’ willing to spend lots of money and not hold the bureaucrats responsible in a period of days… and he withheld the best asset to his campaign, ceded Michigan, and refused to robustly campaign at all.
Mind you that is just from watching the campaign unfold that one can derive that message, not from any meta-examination of ‘zingers’ or vapid plans, of which there wasn’t much of a difference between the two campaigns that could be articulated.
That is not ‘ornamentation’ but shooting oneself in the foot and deciding the other foot needs similar attention. That is what happens when one shoots their credibility all to hell and gone and refuses to actually campaign for a position they supposedly are volunteering for and stand up for the principles one has tried to create during their career.
And you don’t need a letter alphabet mix after one’s name nor an unpublished magazine of such great import it can’t get published to do that analysis: just observation. That is very basic, one would think, to do.
After that does one really need to address Progressive pablum about such great ‘benefits’ that can’t be paid for or the structural analysis of why the States as robust actors in a federal system serve as a safeguard for liberty by keeping the federal government on a short leash? These are not ‘social’ arguments but fiscal and systemic structural ones in which a republic via representative democracy is to be run at multiple levels with checks and balances between them to prevent those with our vested negative liberties for oversight running amok with them.
A bit of a further stab is necessary…
I did have an Uncle who lived through the Spanish Influenza epidemic and he had a very different view of what ‘bad’ is. When told something that was going on was ‘bad’ he would look out the window and say: ‘It can’t be that bad, there are no unburied bodies in the street.’
Notice that no other government on the planet did well with the Spanish Flu, especially when caregivers became infected with it. No government can handle that well and arguing that one can is contrary to reason: when the skilled caregivers go down there are fewer caregivers left, therefore absolute care decreases in quantity and quality. There is no ‘social safety net’ for something like that – you just work damned hard, bury the dead and care for those who you can care for and the problem devolves to the absolute local level of block by block in neighborhoods. And the best government suited to handle that is: local.
Folks in Florida were amazed at how fast Katrina sufferers got helped as they still had NOT been helped for the hurricanes that went through there YEARS prior to Katrina. That lesson is: don’t depend on the federal government for local help.
But then that, too, is just plain and simple analysis based on causation and effect. Can’t have that, now, can we?
ajacksonian on May 17, 2010 at 10:33 AM
NERP’s byline is compromise. Dems want us to jump off a 400 foot high cliff. We demand it be only 100 feet. They give in with their spirit of compromise. Splat! I’ll stand for what I want and you stand for what you want. I’m afraid of heights.
Herb on May 17, 2010 at 12:11 PM