Video: Swedish artist who drew Mohammed as a dog attacked at lecture

posted at 4:10 pm on May 11, 2010 by Allahpundit

Via Michael Moynihan at Reason. Remember Lars Vilks? A few years ago he decided to draw Mohammed as a pooch and has been dodging killers ever since, from garden variety Islamist nuts like “Jihad Jane” all the way up to the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq. Funny thing, though: Not only wasn’t he intimidated, he practically dared the mujahedeen to come and get him, letting CNN cameras film his home and even booby-trapping the place in case the soldiers of Allah paid him an unexpected visit. Quote:

Vilks has faced numerous death threats over the controversial cartoon, but said in March he has built his own defense system, including a “homemade” safe room and a barbed-wire sculpture that could electrocute potential intruders.

He said he also has an ax “to chop down” anyone trying to climb through the windows of his home in southern Sweden.

“If something happens, I know exactly what to do,” Vilks told The Associated Press in an interview in Stockholm.

He got himself a guard dog too. Its name? “Muhammed.”

Fast-forward to today’s lecture. The guy who ran up and head-butted him hasn’t been identified yet, but as Moynihan notes, you can clearly hear screams of “Allahu Akbar” in the classroom as security scrambles. Note to Trey Parker and Matt Stone: If you haven’t hired full-time bodyguards yet, this is your wake-up call.


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“pop psychological analysis,” eh? LOL! Do you deny that projection exists, or are you just denying that you are guilty of it? Believe me, I don’t expect you to answer that rationally because you won’t dare to.

And no, I don’t deny that it exists but it’s funny that you bring projection up because if you read another post of mine above you’ll see the projection of human ideas onto this god whom we think exists…

You’ll obviously deny this characterization but denial isn’t just a river in Egypt Bizarro…

This is how the god of Christinaity reads to me and most other rational people I know… They ALL read like an angry parent who is punishing his kids…

God creates man, man sins, man SPANKED out of the garden of eden. Man can now die now and experience suffering and can’t seem to “get” it and be pious enough, SPANK, god floods the earth. Man still can’t seem to “get” it so god decides to give us an “easy” out and sacrifices himself, TO himself, so that we can join him in his “house”, and now you only get spanked if you don’t believe in it and get to spend an eternity in a lake of fire…

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 12:31 PM

I’ve said this in other forums but I often get this question from the religiously inclined…

Since atheism doesn’t have any sense of absolute morality, would it not then be an irrational leap of faith, something which atheist themselves so harshly condemn, for an atheist to decide between right and wrong?

Absolute morality? The absolute morality that a religious person might profess would include things like what? Stoning people for adultery? Death for apostacy? Punishment for breaking the sabbath? Death for homosexuals? These are all things which are religiously based absolute morality… I don’t think I WANT an absolute morality. I think I want a morality that is thought out, reasoned, argued, discussed, and based upon I would almost say, intelligent design.

Can we not design our society which has the sort of morality, the sort of society that WE, meaning all of us, want to live in? If you actually look at the moralties which are accepted among modern people, among 21st century people. We don’t believe in slavery any more, we believe in equality for women, we believe in being gentle and kind to animals… These are all things which are ENTIRELY recent. They have very little basis in biblical or koranic scripture. They are things that have developed over historical time through a consensus of reasoning, sober discussion, argument, legal theory, political and moral philosophy. These do NOT come from religion. Now, to the extent you can FIND good bits in religious scripture, you have to cherry pick. You search your way through the bible or the koran, and you find the OCCASIONAL verse that is an acceptable profession of morality, and we say , “LOOK AT THAT, THATS RELIGION!” and you leave out all the horrible bits.

And you’ll say, “oh, we don’t believe that anymore, that was from another age and a different context. We’ve grown out of it”. Well of COURSE we’ve grown out of it! We’ve grown out of it because of secular, moral philosophy and rational discussion.

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 12:44 PM

Please spare me the “Christians are tolerant and peaceful” canard. I myself performed acts in the name of god against gay people when I was really young and stupid because the Bible clearly says that god frowns upon homos and that they should be stoned to death (not that I KILLED any of them but I egged them and snowballed them with trucks full of ready made snowballs.) Yeah, the stupidity of youth… I know better now.

SauerKraut537 on May 11, 2010 at 11:14 PM

I must have missed that part of the bible where Jesus said to throw snoballs at homosexuals. You know, we were talking about “Christianity”.

Johan Klaus on May 12, 2010 at 1:03 PM

There you go again Bizarro. Please spare me the inane analysis of my comments, and me telling you to go away is simply my boredom with your childish logic.

If you think that you’re hurting me or speaking truth to me, think again. Again I say, I know who the real enemy is (hint, it’s not Christians, Muslims, Jews)

I’m addressing the bigger picture which is that religion is an institution that does the opposite of its intended goal. All religions seek to dominate as they are the most base form of politics that there is. Religion transverses national borders and demands allegiances that otherwise wouldn’t be there. The reality is that religion divides us, THUS why you had one version of Christianity when it started, and now we have hundreds of different denominations. There’s your relativity for you, relativity is what spawned the different denominations we have today Bizarro because we all have our OWN traits that we ascribe to gods psyche.

Is the goal of Christianity NOT to have everyone thinking that their god is the right god? Sure, its relatively benign today, but in its past (conquering the new world, crusades, inquisitions, etc)? JUST because Christianity has been relatively innocuous today doesn’t mean it can’t revert to it’s more midevil side. We’re talking about humans aren’t we?

That being said, Islam isn’t any different… They’re just the most vocal today and most active in trying to spread it’s beliefs. Tomorrow it could be the Scientologists or Mormons.

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 12:24 PM

You didn’t answer my question of you about projection, just as I predicted! I’ve dealt with far too many people like you in my life to be surprised by your reaction. You’re too scared to deal with reality, and unfortunately for the rest of us, we have to deal with the fallout of that.

You’re an annoying, arrogant, immoral, projecting bore with delusions of rational competence, a person who obsessively and unconsciously repeats the same talking points over and over, and who’s incapable of succinctly and directly addressing the points of people who have good reason to disagree with you because you’re too stupid to know to keep things civil, short and sweet. I admit that I enjoy pointing this out to you. :)

Christianity isn’t a real problem except to people who have issues with love, but you refuse to accept this because you’re a complete mess, the anti-religious equivalent of a religious nut. And you know how it feels to be on the receiving end of that kind of foolishness, don’t you? Well, that’s how we feel dealing with your insanity! :)

Bizarro No. 1 on May 12, 2010 at 1:21 PM

I must have missed that part of the bible where Jesus said to throw snoballs at homosexuals. You know, we were talking about “Christianity”.

Johan Klaus on May 12, 2010 at 1:03 PM

Did you not read the part about this being when I was like 16-17 years old… and the overarching point Johan is that while it’s said to be against the preachings of Jesus, Jesus himself said that all the laws that came before him (from god) were STILL in effect, but he had a few new ones for us. Another thing is that the god of the old testament is STILL, last time I checked, the same god of the new one excepting of course that the new testament god went through a make over and is now the god of love and peace and forgiveness.

Funny how that came about… It’s almost like the people who wrote the new testament had READ the old testament and said to themselves, “hmm, this old testament god is a mean ole’ bastard, and a jealous sort as well. Let’s give him a makeover and make him a loving and caring god.” Kind of like the way our moralities have evolved over time. Newer ideas came into existence and people’s thoughts on morality evolved… curious that…

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 1:28 PM

You didn’t answer my question of you about projection, just as I predicted!

Bizarro No. 1 on May 12, 2010 at 1:21 PM

I guess that makes you a prophet doesn’t it… Except I DID answer it… in the very next post (top of page 4/top of this page)

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 1:29 PM

You’re an annoying, arrogant, immoral, projecting bore with delusions of rational competence, a person who obsessively and unconsciously repeats the same talking points over and over, and who’s incapable of succinctly and directly addressing the points of people who have good reason to disagree with you because you’re too stupid to know to keep things civil, short and sweet. I admit that I enjoy pointing this out to you. :)

Christianity isn’t a real problem except to people who have issues with love, but you refuse to accept this because you’re a complete mess, the anti-religious equivalent of a religious nut. And you know how it feels to be on the receiving end of that kind of foolishness, don’t you? Well, that’s how we feel dealing with your insanity! :)

Bizarro No. 1 on May 12, 2010 at 1:21 PM

I know for a fact that I’m annoying to you but the motive for my annoyance is to elicit thought on your part. Sometimes, jarring and provocative comments can have the intended result of making one think. The operative word being sometimes…

I guess in your case it doesn’t apply apparently but I knew that would be the case as I stated in my very first posting on page 2 I believe.

Bizarro. I know I’m getting in your face as well as many others about this but my motive is pure. I’m trying to get you to realize that the religious goggles you’re viewing the world through only serve to divide you, and others who profess a belief in the same god that YOU do, from those who DON’T follow the same god that you do. The same logic that tells YOU that YOUR religion is the right one is the VERY same logic that the Muslims use to show them that THEY’RE religion is the right one. You can’t BOTH be right, but what if you’re both wrong? What if all religious followers were wrong and are missing the entire point of what these great men of our past wanted to impart to us.

The moralities that Jesus espoused are good ones that anyone who follwoed them can attest to. But Jesus is NOT the end all be all of existence as you’ve been raised to believe. Buddha had some good teachings, as did Confucious. The point of religion is to codify these “truths” into a system of belief but what ENDS up happening over time is that these religions actually SERVE to divide us. Religion puts man against man and ONLY serves to divide us.

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 1:44 PM

And no, I don’t deny that it exists but it’s funny that you bring projection up because if you read another post of mine above you’ll see the projection of human ideas onto this god whom we think exists…

You’ll obviously deny this characterization but denial isn’t just a river in Egypt Bizarro…

This is how the god of Christinaity reads to me and most other rational people I know… They ALL read like an angry parent who is punishing his kids…

God creates man, man sins, man SPANKED out of the garden of eden. Man can now die now and experience suffering and can’t seem to “get” it and be pious enough, SPANK, god floods the earth. Man still can’t seem to “get” it so god decides to give us an “easy” out and sacrifices himself, TO himself, so that we can join him in his “house”, and now you only get spanked if you don’t believe in it and get to spend an eternity in a lake of fire…

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 12:31 PM

You have this wondrous, virtuous habit of speaking for others without bothering to first ascertain whether it accurately represents their positions. You don’t know what I will or won’t deny, but you spout anyways as though you do, revealing what a fool you are. There is a reason you do that. Like I said, you are too scared to deal with reality.

You accused me of using pop psychology, then you went on to admit that projection does exist. What this proves is that you don’t like the fact that I applied the label to you, and that instead of addressing whether or not my assessment of you was correct, you insulted me and told me to shut up, demonstrating that my assessment of you was correct. See how that works? :)

You haven’t shown an ability to argue w/o committing logical fallacy after logical fallacy, ad hominem for one, yet you are the mature, intelligent one in your mind! Funny stuff. You’re just a self-deluded, angry, obsessive anti-religious nut.

If you will stop your presumptuousness and babble for moment, explain how a religion that is commanded by its god to love everyone is a genuine problem for anyone.

Bizarro No. 1 on May 12, 2010 at 1:50 PM

I guess that makes you a prophet doesn’t it… Except I DID answer it… in the very next post (top of page 4/top of this page)

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 1:29 PM

Yes, I was prophetic – after you made your accusation, I asked you if you were denying that projection existed, or if you were denying that my assessment of you was accurate. You didn’t really address my point there, did you?

You said you weren’t denying that projection existed, which means you insulted me merely for the ‘sin’ of having a disfavorable opinion of you. You aren’t capable of rationally discussing whether my assessment of you was correct or not because your massive, defective ego won’t dare let you do so.

Again, if my prediction’s wrong, prove it!

Bizarro No. 1 on May 12, 2010 at 2:02 PM

explain how a religion that is commanded by its god to love everyone is a genuine problem for anyone.

Bizarro No. 1 on May 12, 2010 at 1:50 PM

Does that god NOT also command that we stone adulterers? apostates? homosexuals? irreverent children who disobey their parents?

If you can deny that these are in the bible tell me who’s being disingenuous… please.

If you can deny that the religious fervor of people in the past, who have forced their beliefs on others such as Christians did in the middle ages up to a couple of hundred years ago, exists then you’re not being intellectually honest.

Let me ask YOU a few questions… that I’ve asked in other comments in this thread.

Would a god who started it all (created everything and everyone) REALLY choose one tribe as his chosen as the god of Christianity did initially? I mean they’re ALL his creations aren’t they? And saying that the god of the new testament is a different god than the one of the old is ridiculous (yeah I’m putting words in your mouth but I’m seeking to cut you off before you use that tired out canard)

Would a god REALLY have to sacrifice himself TO himself in bronze aged middle eastern society? Is that REALLY the best place to make yourself known to your creations? Why not just talk to us all and let us know THE reality of his existence. Instead, we’re left to fend for ourselves and we fight about it just like we are right now with the Muslims.

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 2:04 PM

I asked you if you were denying that projection existed, or if you were denying that my assessment of you was accurate. You didn’t really address my point there, did you?

You said you weren’t denying that projection existed, which means you insulted me merely for the ’sin’ of having a disfavorable opinion of you. You aren’t capable of rationally discussing whether my assessment of you was correct or not because your massive, defective ego won’t dare let you do so.

Again, if my prediction’s wrong, prove it!

Bizarro No. 1 on May 12, 2010 at 2:02 PM

I’m NOT guilty of projection, no… Maybe in a sense I might be by putting words in your mouth as they say, but I’ve been debating with people over this issue for the last 2 years since my deconversion. I’ve heard countless people express the very same sentiments I’m attributing to what YOU may or may not think.

Who IS guilty of projection though are the bronze aged shepherds and Bedouins who foisted these religions on us back in the infancy of our species. Does the old testament NOT read as I characterized it? Does god NOT create man and man then sin and god then kick man out of the garden of Eden as if to spank him? Does god NOT flood the earth because his impetuous children keep acting up and he’s had enough of it so chooses a drunjard named Noah, and his family, as the BEST that humanity had to offer and tell him to gather up animals two by two to save the creatures of the planet for after his great flood?

Do these stories NOT sound like a poorly thought out projection of a scenario where a parent might punish a child?

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 2:12 PM

We need right thought, logical thought, more than we need unity Thuja. I respect your comment though. I know this isn’t the BEST place to be talking about it but the greater threat to humanity is not Islam. It’s the concept which SPAWNS Islam. The god concept is still, after thousands of years of debate, a concept.

As we can see throughout history, religion divides us more than anything else because what’s mot important to us all? This afterlife we THINK exists. The religion of Islam was a response to the rise of Christiantiy and was born out of the same philosophy. In fact, whole tracts of the koran are lifted out of the old and new testament verbatim and Christianity itself was born out of Judaism.

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 12:05 PM

Your history of Islam and Christianity is a little bit off. I would claim that Christianity is joint creation of Judaism and Greek culture. My own religion Reform Judaism could also be construed as joint creation of those cultures. If we are honest, the God of Reform Judaism has some pretty Greek traits. We pick and choose the best parts from both cultures. We believe in a God that we can morally justify. It is how we wrestle with God. (Israel mean one who wrestles with God.) Reform Judaism says other religions are valid paths to God. I don’t see how atheists can attack us too seriously, since we will do no harm in the name of God–unlike several religions I can think of.

But all is not well in Reform Judaism. Too often we have replaced the magical aspects of God with a magical belief in government. This is a horrid move on our behalf, but we see this often in the more open religions. I would argue that socialist ideas in government remain the bigger long run threat to humanity than even the horrific damn the unbelievers to hell deities like Allah. Socialism may well beat Islam, but it’s not a path to victory which I would want to take. Thus, I would urge you to relax a little about the Christian fundamentalists and fight socialism.

thuja on May 12, 2010 at 2:14 PM

Thus, I would urge you to relax a little about the Christian fundamentalists and fight socialism.

thuja on May 12, 2010 at 2:14 PM

Thuja, when you have a problem like this religious contentiousness that we find ourselves having to deal with today… To truly extirpate the problem, one needs to go to the root of the problem and the root of the problem to me is this belief in god. It’s a belief/concept for which we have very little, if any, evidence. Sure, we can look around us and THINK a god started it all but we don’t KNOW that a god started it all. But these religious nutters just KNOW that they’re right… Isn’t that delusional? We all KNOW that none of us know for sure, yet some of us have chosen to be MORE right than others.

I don’t claim to have all the answers but when one doesn’t have all the answers, the best position to take is one of neutrality. I believe in a god, I just don’t believe in gods with names. Because gods with names are gods that other HUMANS’s have thought up.

Unless and until god makes himself known not only to me, but every other sentient being on the planet ALL at the same time so that there is no ambiguity as to his existence. I now choose to refrain from following any one religion.

Ask yourrself this… If one of these religions were right, and so evidently right, don’t you think us humans would SEE that and move towards it? Instead, we have a series of pretenders to knowledge of the divine and THEY hold the keys to the gate of heaven… Not St PEter…

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 2:26 PM

I wish I was in the crowd and had the opportunity to ruin the structural integrity of the wannabejihadis skull

these little punks need a severe beatdown

Sonosam on May 12, 2010 at 2:27 PM

I know for a fact that I’m annoying to you but the motive for my annoyance is to elicit thought on your part. Sometimes, jarring and provocative comments can have the intended result of making one think. The operative word being sometimes…

I guess in your case it doesn’t apply apparently but I knew that would be the case as I stated in my very first posting on page 2 I believe.

Bizarro. I know I’m getting in your face as well as many others about this but my motive is pure. I’m trying to get you to realize that the religious goggles you’re viewing the world through only serve to divide you, and others who profess a belief in the same god that YOU do, from those who DON’T follow the same god that you do. The same logic that tells YOU that YOUR religion is the right one is the VERY same logic that the Muslims use to show them that THEY’RE religion is the right one. You can’t BOTH be right, but what if you’re both wrong? What if all religious followers were wrong and are missing the entire point of what these great men of our past wanted to impart to us.

The moralities that Jesus espoused are good ones that anyone who follwoed them can attest to. But Jesus is NOT the end all be all of existence as you’ve been raised to believe. Buddha had some good teachings, as did Confucious. The point of religion is to codify these “truths” into a system of belief but what ENDS up happening over time is that these religions actually SERVE to divide us. Religion puts man against man and ONLY serves to divide us.

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 1:44 PM

You annoy me, but you clearly don’t understand why.

Does your atheism annoy me? Nope, that’s not it. Is it your belief that all religions are equally wrong that bothers me? No, that isn’t isn’t it either. Is it that you are trying to get people here to think? Well, the way you go about doing so annoys me, but that isn’t my primary annoyance. What then is my primary annoyance with you, you ask?

It’s the fact you operate as though your assumptions/opinions/beliefs are factual combined with your knowitallism of those who disagree with you – you “know” what they think before they tell you. I get irked when people do that. It shows a lack of humility, respect, and intellectual honesty.

If you want my respect, make your points and ask your questions in an unloaded, unpresumptuous manner. That is the basis of good conversation afterall, isn’t it? Or maybe your purpose here isn’t to engage in good conversation?

Bizarro No. 1 on May 12, 2010 at 2:32 PM

Athiests have built nothing as far as societies ar concerned

they make the islamos look modern

all they can hope to do is attempt to coopt current societies

Sonosam on May 12, 2010 at 2:41 PM

Bizarro No. 1 on May 12, 2010 at 2:32 PM

OK fine Bizarro, I’m guilty as charged but as I said, sometimes provocative statements do have the intended consequence of making one think.

I’m sorry for being the way I am but I get frustrated with my former belief, and all beliefs for which we have little evidence (other than anecdotal evidence which is ALL religions have)

Let’s play fair then… Can you start by answering my questions I posed, ie Would a god who started it all, etc…

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 2:44 PM

Athiests have built nothing as far as societies ar concerned

they make the islamos look modern

all they can hope to do is attempt to coopt current societies

Sonosam on May 12, 2010 at 2:41 PM

This IS a factually incorrect assertion Sonosam…

David Hume, who wrote the Idea of a Perfect Commonwealth, was the guiding influence for Madison, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin and other of our founding fathers. He was a great Scottish philosopher, historian, and economist who’s ideas are the basis of our country’s government.

Don’t believe me, go look up the Idea of a Perfect Commonwealth, read it (it’s a short essay) and then get back with me on atheists having no good ideas for governments…

David Hume was one of me… A person who believes that gods COULD exist, but that all the one’s so far proposed fall short of the mark on what a god WOULD be like.

Go look up David Hume’s bio and learn a few things.

Go read some Spinoza as well… Then maybe you’ll understand the ignorance of your comment.

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 3:02 PM

David Hume

Idea of a Perfect Commonwealth

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 3:04 PM

Hume made a philosophical discovery that opened up to him “a new Scene of Thought”, which inspired him “to throw up every other Pleasure or Business to apply entirely to it”.[7] He did not recount what this “Scene” was, and commentators have offered a variety of speculations.[8] Due to this inspiration, Hume set out to spend a minimum of ten years reading and writing. He came to the verge of nervous breakdown, after which he decided to have a more active life to better continue his learning

I “wonder” what that new scene of thought was but let’s read on…

Hume wrote a great deal on religion. However, the question of what were Hume’s personal views on religion is a difficult one.[19] The Church of Scotland seriously considered bringing charges of infidelity against him.[20] He never declared himself to be an atheist, but if he had been hostile to religion, Hume’s writings would have had to be constrained to being ambiguous about his own views. He did not acknowledge his authorship of many of his works in this area until close to his death, and some were not even published until afterwards.

Neil McArthur (2007, p. 124) characterizes Hume as a ‘precautionary conservative’: whose actions would have been “determined by prudential concerns about the consequences of change, which often demand we ignore our own principles about what is ideal or even legitimate” [68] , He supported liberty of the press, and was sympathetic to democracy, when suitably constrained. It has been argued that he was a major inspiration for James Madison’s writings, and the Federalist No. 10 in particular. He was also, in general, an optimist about social progress, believing that, thanks to the economic development that comes with the expansion of trade, societies progress from a state of “barbarism” to one of “civilisation”.

Interesting isn’t it?

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 3:09 PM

I’m sorry for being the way I am but I get frustrated with my former belief

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 3:09 PM

Obviously. And while you think your arguments are reasonable and intelligent, they’re transparently frustrated. Because it took you 39 years to question your faith, you assume that all Christians are equally naive about theirs.

Stop assuming. Just….stop. Please.

Grace_is_sufficient on May 12, 2010 at 4:55 PM

Obviously. And while you think your arguments are reasonable and intelligent, they’re transparently frustrated. Because it took you 39 years to question your faith, you assume that all Christians are equally naive about theirs.

Stop assuming. Just….stop. Please.

Grace_is_sufficient on May 12, 2010 at 4:55 PM

We ALL live under assumptions don’t we Grace? Some of us more than others, and while I didn’t announce until my 39th year in life I’d obviously doubted before in life… I just had people talk me back into it… Like religious people are wont to do when one of their flock tries to leave.

Now that I’m out of it, I seek to help others realize they don’t need it. Fault me for being passionate and a bit frustrated, I’m guilty of that much I’ll grant you.

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 6:31 PM

I’m sorry for being the way I am but I get frustrated with my former belief, and all beliefs for which we have little evidence (other than anecdotal evidence which is ALL religions have)

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 2:44 PM

That is such an absurd statement that it boggles my mind that such a sentence was ever uttered. Little evidence? Are you kidding? No person who has thoughtfully examined the evidence would ever make such a charge. So I suppose you have exhausted all the world’s knowledge of religious truth in order to make such a broad and bold declaration? So you want proof then. Ok, tell me exactly what proof is so I can personally provide it for you.

NeverLiberal on May 12, 2010 at 8:58 PM

So you want proof then. Ok, tell me exactly what proof is so I can personally provide it for you.

NeverLiberal on May 12, 2010 at 8:58 PM

Are you saying you can provide evidence of god because that’s what we’re talking about here… No religion has EVER produced any evidence that a god exists. Nada, zero, zilch.

Provide me evidence of a god… Please be the first.

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 9:25 PM

I fight against ALL ideologies, especially religious ones now, and that doesn’t exclude my former religion.

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 11:07 AM

How foolish. Making such statements is an admission that that you consider all religions and all ideologies to be the same, which is a denial of basic reality. Besides, your hatred of religion and profession of atheism is itself an ideology. You would have to hate yourself to be logically consistent.

If you’re determined to believe that there is no God, then you will accept no evidence.

I believe Islam is wrong, but I have no problem with Muslims being vocal or trying to persuade me otherwise. It’s that jihad thing that crosses the line.

But I’m not inclined to waste time on yet another self-satisfied name-calling angry atheist. Frankly, there’s way too many around.

You know the definition of an atheist? Someone who says, “There is no God, and I’ll fight him until I die!” If you really believe there is no God, why are you so obsessed with making everyone else believe it?

There Goes The Neighborhood on May 13, 2010 at 1:27 AM

If you really believe there is no God, why are you so obsessed with making everyone else believe it?

There Goes The Neighborhood on May 13, 2010 at 1:27 AM

Because he knows, in his heart, that he is wrong.

Pray that he finds out before it is too late.

Inanemergencydial on May 13, 2010 at 10:20 AM

How foolish. Making such statements is an admission that that you consider all religions and all ideologies to be the same, which is a denial of basic reality. Besides, your hatred of religion and profession of atheism is itself an ideology. You would have to hate yourself to be logically consistent.

If you’re determined to believe that there is no God, then you will accept no evidence.

I believe Islam is wrong, but I have no problem with Muslims being vocal or trying to persuade me otherwise. It’s that jihad thing that crosses the line.

But I’m not inclined to waste time on yet another self-satisfied name-calling angry atheist. Frankly, there’s way too many around.

You know the definition of an atheist? Someone who says, “There is no God, and I’ll fight him until I die!” If you really believe there is no God, why are you so obsessed with making everyone else believe it?

There Goes The Neighborhood on May 13, 2010 at 1:27 AM

On the contrary, I love myself now. I’m not completely satisfied with my life but who is? I don’t consider all ideologies to be wrong, just religious ones.

In a world still filled with SOOOOOO much mystery, why is it, do you think that humans believe with ABSOLUTE certainty that they have DEFINITIVELY answered the question of the ORIGIN of ALL things? Does it NOT strain credibility to actually believe that though we don’t possess a complete understanding of our own brain function, let alone millions of other things, that we have somehow MASTERED the maintenance of our immortal souls (which are as of yet still unprovable)?

Does that even SEEM logical?

Yet here we are, with a majority of the world’s population believing in one doctrine of faith or another, because they think that they are SO complex that there just HAS to be something more. Because there is SO much in the world, AND in the universe that has yet to EVEN be discovered, let alone UNDERSTOOD… Religious folk would rather have these mysteries remain, because it’s much easier to observe a tree than it is to discover photosynthesis, chlorophyll and the life cycle of individual types of trees.

Throughout history, EVERY mystery that has EVER been solved has turned out to be… NOT magic (which is the default claim of all miracle witnessing proponents)… Science has PULLED back the curtains on the Wizard of Oz COUNTLESS times, and MUCH that the world claimed used to belong to the supernatural, and by extension god, has been shown to have more natural explanations…

Yet faith is still a virtue, except when it’s faith associated with people like the Muslims who flew the planes into the buildings in NYC and Washington…

Faith is the denial of observation, so that BELIEF can be preserved.

SauerKraut537 on May 13, 2010 at 12:55 PM

Provide me evidence of a god… Please be the first.

SauerKraut537 on May 12, 2010 at 9:25 PM

Lack of evidence doesn’t mean there isn’t any ‘evidence’.
We may lack the capacity to ‘see’ it right now.
I am scientific minded, as a science teacher, and am also religous.
This comment speaks volumes about the ‘conversation’ that happend here:

If you really believe there is no God, why are you so obsessed with making everyone else believe it?

There Goes The Neighborhood on May 13, 2010 at 1:27 AM

Just as you evidently despise others for pushing their beliefs on you, you should look in the mirror on this one.
Since we live in America, last I checked, it wasn’t a problem to be a muslim, Christian, Jew, Protestant, Atheist whatever.
We are Americans 1st & foremost.
There are those who wish to push their beliefs upon others.
It does not have to be a religous belief that gets pushed.
Philosophizing (sp?) on religous matters can be interesting, but in the end can serve no purpose here.
What matters here on HA is finding a solution to ourcountry’s problems through the exchange of ideas & debate (rational).
I don’t hold you in contempt bcs you’re having problems with organized (or belief) religion.
But will you kindly quit wasting your own time & focus on the point at hand here?
islam is a political ideology bent on controlling every aspect of one’s life.
Christianity used to be that way. It isn’t like that anymore.
Maybe islam will go through the same change someday.
But until that day, it should be fought vigorously.
If I had been alive during Christian atricoties long ago, I’d be saying the same thing about those groups.
Atheists can pose the same danger that other crazy religionists do.
And you’re sounding pretty wacko to me friend.

Badger40 on May 13, 2010 at 12:57 PM

You know the definition of an atheist? Someone who says, “There is no God, and I’ll fight him until I die!” If you really believe there is no God, why are you so obsessed with making everyone else believe it?

There Goes The Neighborhood on May 13, 2010 at 1:27 AM

In regards to the term atheist… you’ll of course disagree because you like the term defined as it is in the dictionary but follow this logic for a second…

You may not know (maybe you haven’t read all my posts) but I’m actually a deist, but I consider myself an atheist for the following reason…

First of all, why does the term atheism get defined as: a lack of belief in a god, when we have other words like amoral, atypical, agnostic, defined as follows…

amoral means without morals
atypical means without typical(ness)
agnostic means without knowledge

Do you NOT see the disconnect there? It clearly follows the same spelling methodology as these other words…

In other words, atheism means without theism.

That being said…

From dictionary.com

theism means the belief in one god as the creator and ruler of the universe, WITHOUT rejection of revelation (distinguished from deism).

deism means belief in the existence of a god on the evidence of reason and nature only, WITH rejection of supernatural revelation (distinguished from theism).

So while a deist believes in the existence of a god, he DOESN’T believe in the existence of THEISTIC gods, thus making him an atheist, because a deist is without belief in theistic gods.

I know you’ll disagree but there is my justification for why I’m an atheist.

I believe in a god, I just don’t believe in theistic gods. And I doubt I ever will again.

SauerKraut537 on May 13, 2010 at 1:16 PM

Badger40 on May 13, 2010 at 12:57 PM

I feel like a broken record but here’s why I argue against religion Badger…

People’s beliefs have consequences, don’t they? When a person thinks that drinking cyanide is a good thing, we talk them out of it or we restrain them from drinking it don’t we?

All I’m doing is trying to talk religious people out of the notion that they need a god in order to be good in life. I’m trying to show them that this afterlife that we all BELIEVE exists, and that’s all it is, is a figment of your imagination.

Yet people fight over this belief, as evidenced by the Muslims who are currently the most vocal and vociferous of religious people currently fighting us about it.

Don’t think that Christians won’t rise to the occasion though and become vocal and more fundamentalist as a result of the Muslims raising arms against us.

SauerKraut537 on May 13, 2010 at 1:28 PM

Sourkraut, you really like hearing yourself talk, don’t ya? Post after post after post, pushing your anti-religion screed. From the frequency you’ve been posting on this thread I’d say that you are a chair-moistening drone stuck in some corporate cubicle backwater, bitter that you’ve been repeatedly passed over for promotion. Either that or you are a 35 year old loser dwelling in your mommy’s basement feverishly typing away in a desperate attempt for attention from grownups.

Trust me pal, you ain’t winning any converts here to your atheist religion. If anything, people are reading your drivel and reaffirming their faith in Christianity or Judaism. The synagogues will be packed on Saturday and the churches will be jammed on Sunday. Hallelujah!

CatchAll on May 14, 2010 at 11:21 PM

CatchAll on May 14, 2010 at 11:21 PM

Think what you want Catchall, you’re type always do, and I used to be one of you drones that takes all that the leaders of your movement spout. You swallow whole the claims of these OTHER people who say THEY know the mind of god when you obviously DON’T know for sure that they’re correct.

It’s YOU who believes in imaginary celestial daddys here, not me. I believe in what I can hear, see, and feel; and even then I question what it was that I heard, saw, or felt. That’s an infinitely better way to live life then in some loop of wishful thinking.

Ask yourself, do you believe the claims that the Loch Ness monster exists until it’s disproven, or do you disbelieve the claims that the Loch Ness monster exists until they’re proven true?

If the latter is your answer then good, that’s the default position of every person when it comes to everything in life EXCEPT this god we think exists. Why is that I wonder?

Ever since we learned of our pending mortality — the mosts unfortunate consequence of evolving a larger brain — we have done our best to mitigate its doleful message. Much of the greatest works in philosophy, religion, art, and music either exist to bewail our mortality or to argue that a spiritual continuity permits us to accept the physical decline, and eventual decay of our bodies. As the lyrics of Bach’s Jesu meine Freude insists: “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the spirit.”

Stephen J Gould, Urchin in the storm

SauerKraut537 on May 15, 2010 at 10:16 AM

Islam, the gutter “religion” of intolerance.

I just heard that those adherents to the “Religion Of Peace” have firebombed Lars Vilks home.

I hope Vilks, his family and his dog Mohammed were unharmed.

In honor of Vilks, maybe I should get a potbellied pig and name it Allah.

CatchAll on May 15, 2010 at 2:33 PM

CatchAll on May 15, 2010 at 2:33 PM

I read that too. He wasn’t there but whoever had broke into his house and tried to burn the interior as well.

When they come my way, they’ll rue the day they do so.

SauerKraut537 on May 15, 2010 at 10:51 PM

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