Quotes of the day
posted at 10:40 pm on May 6, 2010 by Allahpundit
“Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”
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Google William Wilberforce, or simply watch Amazing Grace.
cs89 on May 7, 2010 at 12:58 PM
Is there a reason my comments are not showing up?
Sackett on May 7, 2010 at 12:59 PM
Okay I’ve tried several times to post a calm and well reasoned comment. Why is it failing?
Sackett on May 7, 2010 at 1:02 PM
Atheists have no clue how much of their “rational based” morality and ideas of liberty and justice are derived from Judeo-Christianity. It’s so second nature, they believe they are beyond their cultural underpinnings. Ignorance is bliss.
mbabbitt on May 7, 2010 at 1:19 PM
Lord Jesus Christ hit by a car:
Muhammed, you’re next!
Cybergeezer on May 7, 2010 at 1:33 PM
I think the deep issue is embedded in our own history, which we must own. It’s slavery, KKK, the civil war, etc.
I think that’s the “tang” of our dialogue, even today. And the American version of Christianity definitely was in support of slavery, so it’s been tainted.
Racism is awful stuff. We’re still dealing with the real aftermath of our own very wrong choices, clear back to our founding days.
We were criticized even then for our slave trade.
Our critics were correct. It has really left a taint on our republican ideas.
I don’t personally regret this. I think every society is real, and nobody is above repute.
This is truly a human issue. Enslaving people was our beginnings, in spite of our rhetoric to the opposite.
Any wonder today that this same debate continues?
AnninCA on May 7, 2010 at 1:40 PM
Because clueless morons like you misrepresent everything?
Inanemergencydial on May 7, 2010 at 1:49 PM
A. Most of the abolitionists were Christians.
B. Who was criticizing the U.S. in the 1780s for slavery?
The British empire didn’t pass the slave trade act until 1807, and slavery itself was legal there until 1833.
Finally, I’m not sure what any of this has to do with whether the U.S. is or ever was a “Christian Nation.”
Your comment is even less relevant than the treaty cited above, if that is possible.
cs89 on May 7, 2010 at 1:52 PM
Let me guess: You’re using one of the ban-able words, and some script on this site is protecting you from yourself?
Al in St. Lou on May 7, 2010 at 2:08 PM
Read more history from reputable authors who don’t have a libtard agenda
Haunches on May 7, 2010 at 2:22 PM
Interesting that you mention him. He would probably not be welcome in mainstream religious culture today. Too liberal.
Squid Shark on May 7, 2010 at 2:33 PM
I hate videos in these things. Hell, I hate when Allahpundit posts videos, period. Ed will post a transcript of whatever portion of the video is relevant so I don’t have to click and watch anything. I can read their words faster than they can say them.
PantsDailyon on May 7, 2010 at 2:53 PM
Too nuance-y for Allahpundit. Allahpundit regards non-atheists with a similar degree of nuance Dave Weigel reserves for those who disagree with him. However, Weigel tweets in the declarative.
Stephen M on May 7, 2010 at 3:33 PM
The Bible is not abolitionist. Slavery is a natural state of man this side of the Fall. St. PAul told slaves to obey their masters, not to run away. And he told masters to be kind to their slaves because they were slaves of Christ. He din’t tell them to set their slaves free.
The only pieces of the Bible that can be used are two: an OT passage that frees Hebrew slaves at the Jubilee, which would be analogous to Christians letting their Christian slaves go, and St. Paul’s letter to Philemon.
Paul didn’t command Philemon to free Onesimus, he just asked him to “receive him as a brother” instead of a slave, and to charge to Paul whatever financial harm Onesimus had cause Philemon.
Slavery was practiced on every continent except Antarctica at the time of America’s founding, but due to Christian influence in the UK and US it was on its way out. It was not the fault of the Bible either, because it was practiced in every culture/religion. The Bible regulations of slavery are the most humane bar none, short of immediate abolition.
Had Lincoln not been elected there might have been no War of Northern Aggression, and the slaves would (probably) have eventually been freed or repatriated the last half of the 19th Century in a gradual and peaceful way, if for no other reason than their replacement by machines.
Akzed on May 7, 2010 at 3:35 PM
Squid Shark on May 7, 2010 at 2:33 PM
How so??
He was an “evangelical” of his day, more closely associated with the Methodist-style movement (think John Newton, Whitehead, Wesley etc.) than high-church Anglicans.
Some views may not translate exactly over the centuries, but he was part of his contemporary “firebrand” movement- though intellectual and engaged in politics.
cs89 on May 7, 2010 at 3:54 PM
He was also a “limo liberal” in alot of ways. A wealthy man who lived a comfortable life. He was an animal rights activist, fought for equality of women, among his many other crusades. He is actually alot of what I wish modern Christians would be. I dont mind evangelism, in fact I appreciate it greatly, it is hypocrisy I cant stand.
Squid Shark on May 7, 2010 at 4:28 PM
I have one question.
Is there a Congress in Hell?
Brian1972 on May 7, 2010 at 4:42 PM
Your comment is fair enough. However, the definition of “hypocrisy” can vary, and it’s usually used against those who disagree with one’s own interests.
cs89 on May 7, 2010 at 4:49 PM
Thank you.
labrat on May 7, 2010 at 4:53 PM
BINGO !
jerrytbg on May 7, 2010 at 6:14 PM
Christians have no idea how much our national government was founded on the ideas of Hume. Madison, who was instrumental in the writing and formation of our governmental philosophy was a bog follower of David Hume who wrote the Idea of a Perfect Commonwealth. A lot of the ideas contained within that document influenced greatly the founding fathers ideas on a new form of government which we instituted after the Revolutionary War.
Hume himself was an agnostic atheist, and we have quotes from Madison, Jefferson and other great thinkers during our nations founding who railed against the European malady of wars based on religion.
“The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries.”
James Madison -1803 letter objecting use of gov. land for churches
“What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.”
James Madison – “A Memorial and Remonstrance”, 1785
“In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot … they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose.”
Thomas Jefferson – to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814
I’m confidant that I’ll hear a snide comment about the quotes from the religious right nutters on here saying how they have innumerable quotes from these very same authors professing a strong belief in Christianity, etc… But these quotes are from personal letters and were NOT part of the public domain.
Our founding fathers, who professed a public belief in the joke that is religion, knew full well that the AUDIENCE they spoke to were religiously inclined. Consider that first before you seek to argue against the real basis of our political system.
Nowhere in the constitution, nor in the Declaration of Independence is the CHRISTIAN god singled out as the right religion. Our founding fathers were expressly against choosing a nationalized religion.
That was the whole reason Madison said what he said above.
SauerKraut537 on May 8, 2010 at 11:06 AM
test
SauerKraut537 on May 8, 2010 at 11:10 AM
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