MS-NBC anchor: I’m so bummed that Shahzad wasn’t a Tea Partier

posted at 1:36 pm on May 4, 2010 by Ed Morrissey

Brian Maloney gives us this entry for the Someone Left the Irony On Department, in which Contessa Brewer tells Stephanie Miller that she’s really unhappy that she couldn’t use the Times Square bombing attempt to prove Tea Party “bigotry.”  Never mind that this clip shows the bigotry of Brewer in relation to conservatives — that all of the opponents of Barack Obama and the Democrats are somehow the equivalent of the Hutaree militia in Michigan.  Brewer really wanted a way to smear conservatives, and now she’ll just have to wait a little longer:

BREWER: I mean the thing is is that and I get frustrated and there was part of me that was hoping this was not going to be anybody with ties to any kind of Islamic country because there are a lot of people who want to use this terrorist intent to justify writing off people who believe in a certain way or come from certain countries or whose skin color is a certain way. I mean they use it as justification for really outdated bigotry.

And so there was part of me was really hoping this would not be the case that here would be somebody who is not the defined. I mean he’s accused he’s arrested you know I don’t want to convict him before it’s time to do so. He’s the guy authorities say is involved. But that being said I mean we know even in recent history you have the Hutaree militia from Michigan who have plans to let’s face it create terror.

That’s what they were planning to do and they were doing so from far different backgrounds then what this guy is coming from. So, the threat is not just coming from people who decide that America is the place to be and you know come here and want to become citizens. Obviously this guy did.

Yes, Contessa, there does seem to be a lot of people who want to “justify writing off people who believe in a certain way” as either terrorists or racists. Your network employs more than a few.

Newsbusters has more thoughts on Brewer’s unhappiness.


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kind of Islamic country because there are a lot of people who want to use this terrorist intent to justify writing off people who believe in a certain way or come from certain countries or whose skin color is a certain way. I mean they use it as justification for really outdated bigotry

I suppose she doesn’t realize that with this remark she becomes a poster child for outdated bigotry. Should come as no surprise since lefties are truly incapable of seeing themselves for what they really are.

jeanie on May 4, 2010 at 4:34 PM

David Shuster and Donny Deutsch are shocked at what MSNBC tolerates.

lonestar1 on May 4, 2010 at 4:35 PM

Is it just me or does MSNBC hire nothing but idiots? I mean, there is no justification for the nut cases who are paid to spout their dribble on that network. Hello!! Is anybody there?? Anybody in management at MSNBC listening to the crap that is being evacuated from their hosts and guests like diarrhea?

afotia on May 4, 2010 at 4:37 PM

Um, OJ’s in L’Hotel de Crowbar mon Esthier

ontherocks on May 4, 2010 at 4:32 PM

Not because he killed two people.

Esthier on May 4, 2010 at 4:39 PM

Sometimes the name says it all, like “Contessa Brewer”. She’s full of hops.

maverick muse on May 4, 2010 at 4:41 PM

How absurd. But her comments aren’t anymore absurd than Mayor Bloomberg’s were.

AnninCA on May 4, 2010 at 4:44 PM

You’re naive.

President Bush’s campaign had nothing to do with that!

Ah, a McCain supporter?

Nope.
I voted for Sarah.
The Bush bill was our last chance until Palin is President for closing our borders and comprehensive immigration reform.

So that makes it OK?

No, it doesn’t make it OK, but Reagan signed it thinking that Congress would back it up with meaningful legislation to give it teeth and rules.

No. See how that works?

No, I don’t.
Democrats usually mean to happen exactly the kind of damage they propose from the outset!

Do you actually have a point here?

Did you?

Your partisan rant notwithstanding, I 1) never said they were the same, and 2) haven’t been talking specially or solely about policies.

Esthier on May 4, 2010 at 4:24 PM

Actually, you did say the were the same.
Check up the thread.

BTW, I forgot to mention that the Democrats are the Party of Death with their unabashed support for baby murder a/k/a abortion-on-demand without parental consent up until the baby is almost born.
Republicans are the Party of Life.
This tells you all you need to know that the 2 parties are vastly different!

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 4:45 PM

Not because he killed two people.

Esthier on May 4, 2010 at 4:39 PM

REALLY? OK, believe that if you want, but if it weren’t for the first case, I just don’t see a conviction on the second case. Some people call it Karma, but our justice system really isn’t blind, try as we might.
And you can sight both trials as proof of this sad fact.

ontherocks on May 4, 2010 at 4:47 PM

Any legitimate news organization would fire an employee for a comment like that. I can only assume the suits agree with her sentiment.

diogenes on May 4, 2010 at 4:49 PM

But her comments aren’t anymore absurd than Mayor Bloomberg’s were.

AnninCA on May 4, 2010 at 4:44 PM

So, you’re defending her because she’s female?

Liam on May 4, 2010 at 4:57 PM

I mean the thing is is that and I get frustrated and there was part of me that was hoping this was not going to be anybody with ties to any kind of Islamic country because there are a lot of people who want to use this terrorist intent to justify writing off people who believe in a certain way or come from certain countries or whose skin color is a certain way. I mean they use it as justification for really outdated bigotry.

We should thank the useful idiot for her honesty.

JellyToast on May 4, 2010 at 4:57 PM

sight = cite oops.

ontherocks on May 4, 2010 at 4:58 PM

So, you’re defending her because she’s female?

Liam on May 4, 2010 at 4:57 PM

No, I was critizing Bloomberg.

AnninCA on May 4, 2010 at 4:59 PM

Is this witless git having Queef “Bathtub Boy” Olberwomann’s 2-headed love child?

I hope this skank bogan goes the way of Susan Rosegen!

Gob on May 4, 2010 at 5:01 PM

REALLY? OK, believe that if you want, but if it weren’t for the first case, I just don’t see a conviction on the second case.

ontherocks on May 4, 2010 at 4:47 PM

Sure, I buy that. But he was acquitted of murder and never received that sentence. The sentence he finally received is not what he should have received for those murders.

Esthier on May 4, 2010 at 5:01 PM

No, I was critizing Bloomberg.

AnninCA on May 4, 2010 at 4:59 PM

Exactly my point. You aren’t criticizing her.

Liam on May 4, 2010 at 5:01 PM

Remember folks, Ms. Brewer doesn’t resent being called a slut.


ZIEGLER: Well, Contessa, since you’re a female, you might be better expert on whether or not it’s appropriate to call a public figure “slutty” with, for no apparent reason, AND joke about her daughter being knocked-up in the middle of Yankee Stadium while she’s at the game…
BREWER: Yeah, you know, it’s actually happened…
ZIEGLER: How would you feel about that, Contessa?
BREWER: John, it’s actually happened to me, and I’m fine, I’m still here…

Read more

theCork on May 4, 2010 at 5:02 PM

Exactly my point. You aren’t criticizing her.

Liam on May 4, 2010 at 5:01 PM

Both were absurd.

I was far more put off by Bloomberg than by a liberal journalist who is asked for her opinion. Who cares what she thinks, anyway?

I did find his remarks astounding.

AnninCA on May 4, 2010 at 5:06 PM

Actually, you did say the were the same.

No, I said:

I agree that both sides can be despicable

I never said both are or that both are at the same level or anything else like that. I then went further to say:

but liberals simply have a greater platform, and that tends to make people lazy in their misconceptions.

Meaning, you’re likely to see more “despicable” from liberals.

Republicans are the Party of Life.

Not all life. And I’m not even saying that as a negative, because I personally agree with the times we’ve siding against life.

This tells you all you need to know that the 2 parties are vastly different!

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 4:45 PM

Again, never said they were the same. You don’t always need to defend your politicians from minor criticism. It’s a good thing to look critically at your own party instead of covering up its faults.

Esthier on May 4, 2010 at 5:07 PM

I said that Steele was doing a good job.
And he is.

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 3:48 PM

He is doing a great job of…

hiding behind “Where’s Waldo”
trashing the GOP
not defending tea-party protesters
pandering to the left
and…anyone else…

Laura in Maryland on May 4, 2010 at 5:07 PM

How can one of our conservatives here be a “leftist” and Steele is doing a good job?

Laura in Maryland on May 4, 2010 at 5:09 PM

So, you’re defending her because she’s female?

Liam on May 4, 2010 at 4:57 PM

That’s what Ann does

AsianGirlInTights on May 4, 2010 at 5:14 PM

Remember folks, Ms. Brewer doesn’t resent being called a slut.

Or at least a slut-essa.

The Monster on May 4, 2010 at 5:15 PM

Remember folks, Ms. Brewer doesn’t resent being called a slut.
Or at least a slut-essa.

The Monster on May 4, 2010 at 5:15 PM

You’re on the right track, but you’re spelling Contessa wrong.

Laura in Maryland on May 4, 2010 at 5:17 PM

You would think they could at least spell her name correctly. There’s supposed to be a U instead of an O DUH.

faol on May 4, 2010 at 5:17 PM

Translated: “I made a mistake and was busted for it, but instead of admitting I was wrong I’ll simply try to change the subject”

Uh, no. Please point out where I said Republicans were in charge of the White House and the Justice Department during the Gonzalez fiasco. Or Schaivo. You seem to have a hard-on for trying to make me out to be wrong, but I never asserted, nor was I stupid enough to imply that that the Republicans were in charge at the time. All I said was that that was an example of the Republicans being “despicable”.

BTW, Democrat Presidential “candidate” Algore initially sided with the conservatives on the Elian matter, then suddenly changed sides to support his Meal Ticket. A compelling case could be made that as a result he lost some votes from angry Cuban-Americans in the 2000 election.

Del Dolemonte on May 4, 2010 at 4:22 PM

…okay, and? I hate Al Gore, too. What does that have to do with conservatives throwing “family values” out the window in order to argue that the kid would be better off with distant relatives?

To be fair, they weren’t wrong. The kid’s a propaganda piece, and so was that stupid photo that was completely unnecessary.

The entire thing could have been handled better.

Esthier on May 4, 2010 at 4:28 PM

He was a propaganda piece for both sides, and remember that the kid became a superstar down there. If there was anyone who was going to get preferential treatment from the government, it was Elian.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:18 PM

Laura in Maryland on May 4, 2010 at 5:07 PM

We just disagree totally about Steele.
That’s all.

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:19 PM

AnninCA on May 4, 2010 at 5:06 PM

Ah, but both were stupid and uncalled-for. One is not worse than the other, in normal kinds of thought. A poor mans life is no less valuable than a rich man’s, yet you draw distinctions. Why is that?

One says it might be tea partiers, and another regrets it wasn’t. To me, Brewer said the worse thing, worse but only by a point or two. Bloomberg spoke from politics, while Brewer spoke from her heart. Instead of saying, “Good thing no one was hurt”, she basically lamented the lack of her fave ‘source’ for an act of violent intent. Realistically, she seems to hunger for an event truly caused by the political Right.

You don’t find that sick, moreso than some politician’s idiot knee-jerk assertion?

If you can’t get a clue to the difference, there’s something seriously wrong here.

Liam on May 4, 2010 at 5:19 PM

Gee … I was hoping it was an enviro-communist.

darwin on May 4, 2010 at 5:20 PM

Uh, no. Please point out where I said Republicans were in charge of the White House and the Justice Department during the Gonzalez fiasco. Or Schaivo. You seem to have a hard-on for trying to make me out to be wrong, but I never asserted, nor was I stupid enough to imply that that the Republicans were in charge at the time. All I said was that that was an example of the Republicans being “despicable”.

You specifically cited both the Schiavo and the Elian incidents as being examples of Republicans being “despicable.”
If they weren’t in charge during the Elian affair–as you now admit–how could they have been reponsible for any consequent “despicable” behavior?
As for trying to save Terry Schiavo’s life, it was one shining instance out of many of the GOP using their majority in Congress to try and effect some good.

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:22 PM

If you can’t get a clue to the difference, there’s something seriously wrong here.

Liam on May 4, 2010 at 5:19 PM

Fine with me, Liam, that you judge.

You’re entitled to your opinions.

In the meantime, I’m going to continue to be more appalled by what the mayor’s attitude was than some nitwit journalist from a liberal station.

Color me odd. *haha

AnninCA on May 4, 2010 at 5:25 PM

If they weren’t in charge during the Elian affair–as you now admit–how could they have been reponsible for any consequent “despicable” behavior?

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:22 PM

As I said in the first damned place, their RESPONSE. I’ve explained it multiple times now – family values out, America better than Cuba in.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:27 PM

…okay, and? I hate Al Gore, too. What does that have to do with conservatives throwing “family values” out the window in order to argue that the kid would be better off with distant relatives?

He was a propaganda piece for both sides, and remember that the kid became a superstar down there. If there was anyone who was going to get preferential treatment from the government, it was Elian.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:18 PM

It was none of the federal government’s business!
(That’s only of the ways that Republicans stand up for family values.)
Elian’s FL family was working the case through the system.
There was never a shred of evidence that his father would provide a better home for him in Cuba than the Florida family and in point of fact, you have to wonder if Elian’s dad ever cared about him at all before Castro made the boy a poster child for the glories of Communist Cuba.
Clinton & Reno’s people used American military in body armor with guns to take Elian out of his family’s house in the middle of the night!
Opposing this action of a Democrat-controlled police state is very much a Republican endorsement of family values.

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:27 PM

As for trying to save Terry Schiavo’s life, it was one shining instance out of many of the GOP using their majority in Congress to try and effect some good.

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:22 PM

You got to be kidding, that was the most blatant political and unconstitutional act I have ever seen.

dpierson on May 4, 2010 at 5:27 PM

331 comments. More comments than people who saw the show.

Wade on May 4, 2010 at 5:28 PM

How can one of our conservatives here be a “leftist” and Steele is doing a good job?

Laura in Maryland on May 4, 2010 at 5:09 PM

I’m a secret agent for Kos. Jenfidel figured it out months ago because I said something slightly negative about Palin.

He was a propaganda piece for both sides, and remember that the kid became a superstar down there. If there was anyone who was going to get preferential treatment from the government, it was Elian.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:18 PM

Sure, but I don’t agree that the preferential treatment has necessarily been a good thing. I wouldn’t be comfortable with my son looking up to Castro as a father.

Personally speaking, I think it’s a shame that his mother died to bring him here, only for him to be forcibly removed at gun point. That said, I do agree that his father had legal standing, even if I’m not completely convinced politics weren’t at play there as well.

Esthier on May 4, 2010 at 5:28 PM

There was never a shred of evidence that his father would provide a better home for him in Cuba than the Florida family…

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:27 PM

Wow. Just wow. And you dare to call yourself a conservative, or claim to care about family values?

Conservatives are supposed to give the immediate family the benefit of the doubt, not the federal government of the United States.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:30 PM

As I said in the first damned place, their RESPONSE. I’ve explained it multiple times now – family values out, America better than Cuba in.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:27 PM

Family values in.
America is better than Cuba and in.

To this day, Castro continues to use Elian to push his Communist tyranny!
And his American family, from whom he was taken forcefully, continues to mourn his loss to them.
They were working the case through the courts, as they were supposed to: Take a picture because the case of Elian Gonzalez is the only time you’ll ever see a Democrat (President) deport an illegal immigrant!

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:30 PM

Color me odd. *haha

AnninCA on May 4, 2010 at 5:25 PM

I already do, and seriously bigoted in some ways. Politicians are A-holes–part of the game. But a ‘journalist’, claiming infallible ‘objectivity’, goes off wishing a bomber was someone else? That’s like saying you wish your neighbor lady was killed by the guy down the street instead of by her own husband.

Go with what you feel. But feelings tend to get in the way of reason. And Brewer threw away more reason than has Bloomberg. Far as I’m concerned, they should both be fired from their respective jobs for what they individually said in public. Both have responsibilities, and they failed at them. A point or two either way absolves neither.

Liam on May 4, 2010 at 5:31 PM

Wow. Just wow. And you dare to call yourself a conservative, or claim to care about family values?

Conservatives are supposed to give the immediate family the benefit of the doubt, not the federal government of the United States.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:30 PM

IIRC, Elian’s mother had either been divorced from the father since the boy’s birth or had never been married to him at all.
She died getting him here to her family.
And this is going against the wishes of the “immediate family?”
BTW, you aren’t Janet Reno in disguise, are you?

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:32 PM

BTW, I forgot to mention that the Democrats are the Party of Death with their unabashed support for baby murder a/k/a abortion-on-demand without parental consent up until the baby is almost born.

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 4:45 PM

Don’t forget that our current POTUS is ok with a baby surviving an abortion and being left on a table, in a dark room, to slowly die.

TugboatPhil on May 4, 2010 at 5:33 PM

You got to be kidding, that was the most blatant political and unconstitutional act I have ever seen.

dpierson on May 4, 2010 at 5:27 PM

Sorry, but I’m not following your argument, such as it is, at all.
Please elaborate.

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:33 PM

Me, C*ntessa and a screaming hot curling iron. Now one of us would have a good time. God I hate this d**chebag c*nt. Is it wrong to hope the next successful attempt on NYC is based at NBC HQ’ers? I might even start Tivo’ing the channel so when it does happen I can capture the screen shot of her head being seperated from her shoulders.

pghpat26 on May 4, 2010 at 5:34 PM

Sure, but I don’t agree that the preferential treatment has necessarily been a good thing. I wouldn’t be comfortable with my son looking up to Castro as a father.

Agreed, but perhaps his father is more comfortable with that. His mother is dead. His father should be the one to choose how to raise his son, not anyone else. The fact that Jenfidel and others are arguing otherwise is as nauseating as when Novak and Sowell were doing it back then. Hell, there are plenty of parents in this country who look up to Obama. Do they support taking kids away from those parents and placing them with parents who they think have better political outlooks?

Personally speaking, I think it’s a shame that his mother died to bring him here, only for him to be forcibly removed at gun point. That said, I do agree that his father had legal standing, even if I’m not completely convinced politics weren’t at play there as well.

Esthier on May 4, 2010 at 5:28 PM

Politics were most certainly at play, and that’s the point. Real conservatives should have been able to remove the politics and look at it from a standpoint of family. I remember the gall of some who said “if the father wants his son back, he should move to the United States.” Mind-boggling. Turn the situation around and would the sentiment of those people be that someone in the US should move to Cuba? It was revolting that politics got in the way of a father and his son.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:34 PM

Wow !!!!! Just WOW!!!!

You know it’s bad when they no longer even attempt to hide their extreme bias and contempt for conservatives.

cableguy615 on May 4, 2010 at 5:35 PM

BTW, you aren’t Janet Reno in disguise, are you?

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:32 PM

Says the woman speaking in favor of governments keeping children from their parents.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:36 PM

pghpat26 on May 4, 2010 at 5:34 PM

The only ones deserving harm are those who declared war on us and the United States.

Liam on May 4, 2010 at 5:38 PM

Do they support taking kids away from those parents and placing them with parents who they think have better political outlooks?

Sounds like it. I really feel for the kid’s Miami relatives, but fatherhood should mean something.

It was revolting that politics got in the way of a father and his son.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:34 PM

True, though I think the story of the mother and their relatives in Florida really got to some people. I think it was more emotion than politics for most.

Esthier on May 4, 2010 at 5:39 PM

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:33 PM

Congress not should pass a law so narrow that it benefits a particular individual. Either they should have had the stones to take on the issue in its totality or stay out of it. As it was, it only served to provide press coverage to the Republicans and nothing else.
Imagine that the principle of passing laws that benefit specific individuals could lead to in the hands of the corrupt crew in dc?

dpierson on May 4, 2010 at 5:39 PM

Politics were most certainly at play, and that’s the point.

This is all you needed to say: That Clinton and Reno made a big deal of meeting Castro’s wishes.
(How do you know that Castro’s people didn’t make Elian’s dad make an appeal for him?
If he’s such a “good, caring dad,” how did he let Elian and his mother out of sight long enough for them to make a desperate, dangerous trip by sea to America?)

Turn the situation around and would the sentiment of those people be that someone in the US should move to Cuba? It was revolting that politics got in the way of a father and his son.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:34 PM

No-one’s ever died trying to get their son to the beautiful utopia of Cuba…
What was revolting–and only slightly less revolting than Clinton’s roasting of Christians at Waco–was coming to get this boy, in the bosom of his loving family, with soldiers and force of arms in this country!

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:39 PM

Imagine that the principle of passing laws that benefit specific individuals could lead to in the hands of the corrupt crew in dc?

dpierson on May 4, 2010 at 5:39 PM

That’s not the way to see it: it was a desperate 11th-hour attempt to save a woman’s life who couldn’t speak for herself.
Our great nation was built on protecting everyone’s right to Life, Liberty and Happiness: Congress was acting to protect all 3 in Terry Schiavo’s case.

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:42 PM

True, though I think the story of the mother and their relatives in Florida really got to some people. I think it was more emotion than politics for most.

Esthier on May 4, 2010 at 5:39 PM

There’s one big question that conservatives often overlooked: what kind of mother would put her son in such a dangerous situation? I mean, she ended up dead, and he quite easily could have, as well. I’m not by any means defending Castro or Cuba. I’m defending the father who seemed to get no say in the situation.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:44 PM

Says the woman speaking in favor of governments keeping children from their parents.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:36 PM

And Elian’s family in FL counts for nothing because they weren’t the child’s sperm donor?

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:44 PM

What exactly is “outdated bigotry”? When the hell did it become outdated. I missed that.

1valle on May 4, 2010 at 5:44 PM

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:42 PM

You are penny-wise and pound foolish.

dpierson on May 4, 2010 at 5:45 PM

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:39 PM

Those “Christians” roasted at Waco were cultists who allowed their children to be sexually abused by grown men. Those parents were given more than ample time to come out and and save their children.

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 5:46 PM

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:39 PM

We’re agreed on Waco, but you fell for America’s own propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

And asking me how I know that Castro didn’t make someone do something…what the hell kind of question is that? How do you know that Elian’s father didn’t put a gun to Castro’s head and demand he get the kid home by any means necessary? Speculation of that sort is meaningless.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:46 PM

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:44 PM

Fathers are more than a child’s sperm donor. The father had every right to custody.

dpierson on May 4, 2010 at 5:47 PM

Do the news from Iran or Sudan or Saudi Arabia, Contessa. Let us know how it goes.

SouthernGent on May 4, 2010 at 5:47 PM

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 5:46 PM

So Bradley APCs were needed to get them out? After 53 days of negotiation, the FBI should have gotten better negotiators.

Liam on May 4, 2010 at 5:48 PM

Those “Christians” roasted at Waco were cultists who allowed their children to be sexually abused by grown men. Those parents were given more than ample time to come out and and save their children.

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 5:46 PM

Never. Proven. The girl who made the most clear allegations of abuse was inconsistent and not compelling. The Branch Davidians may have been more zealous than most Christians, but the smear job done on them was heinous. “Waco: Rules of Engagement” cleared up a lot of that crap. It’s on Google Video in its entirety.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:49 PM

And Elian’s family in FL counts for nothing because they weren’t the child’s sperm donor?

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 5:44 PM

Wow. Amazing how much contempt you have for fathers, and amazing how you have the gall to proclaim the father as only a “sperm donor” to his child. Try saying that to any other father, I dare you.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:50 PM

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 5:46 PM

If you did not just believe the MSM propaganda then you would know that it was not true. The human beings who died at Waco did so for nothing other than their beliefs and the need of the ATF to secure more funding. Koresh could have been apprehended safely the same morning the ATF did their moronic raid.

dpierson on May 4, 2010 at 5:50 PM

pghpat26 on May 4, 2010 at 5:34 PM

Over the top. Should be ‘awaiting moderation’

jeanie on May 4, 2010 at 5:50 PM

Liam on May 4, 2010 at 5:48 PM

No, I am saying a parent worth a d@mn never would have had their children there in the first place. Those little girls were being sexually used by a grown man with the apparent approval of their parents. I don’t care about the guns, the place should have been raided and the children seized just for the abuse taking place there.

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 5:50 PM

Those little girls were being sexually used by a grown man with the apparent approval of their parents. I don’t care about the guns, the place should have been raided and the children seized just for the abuse taking place there.

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 5:50 PM

Again, unproven. You really bought into that propaganda, which surprises me. Then again, I once made the mistake of discussing the siege with a Marine who got in my face and told me that the cultists were executed by Koresh, and that he set the place on fire, and that I better know that that was the truth.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:53 PM

No, I am saying a parent worth a d@mn never would have had their children there in the first place. Those little girls were being sexually used by a grown man with the apparent approval of their parents. I don’t care about the guns, the place should have been raided and the children seized just for the abuse taking place there.

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 5:50 PM

There was no evidence of abuse – just hearsay from one girls and the former (displaced leader) of the group. All of the people who survived the raid were very clear about that.

dpierson on May 4, 2010 at 5:53 PM

you are an idiot

blatantblue on May 4, 2010 at 5:54 PM

The 1993 U.S. Department of Justice report sets out allegations of historical child sexual and physical abuse. ATF Special Agent David Aguilera had interviewed former Branch Davidian Jeannine Bunds, who claimed that Koresh had fathered at least fifteen children with various women and young girls at the compound. According to Bunds, some of the girls who had babies fathered by Koresh were as young as 12 years old. She said she had personally delivered seven of these children. Bunds also claims that Koresh would annul all marriages of couples who joined his cult. He then had exclusive sexual access to the women. He would also have regular sexual relations with young girls.[12] In his book, James Tabor states that Koresh acknowledged on a videotape sent out of the compound during the standoff that he had fathered more than 12 children by several “wives”, some of whom were as young as 12 or 13 when they became pregnant.[13] DNA testing of the women and children in the video who died in the subsequent fire confirmed that some of the children were his.[citation needed] On March 3, 1993, during negotiations to secure the release of the remaining children, Koresh advised the Negotiation Team that: “My children are different than those others” referring to his direct lineage, versus those children previously released.

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 5:54 PM

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 5:50 PM

I agree, totally with your sentiment. But the FBI and ATF botched the whole thing, and sent in military armor after too damned long.

The FBI has their HRT–Hostage Rescue Team. They’re trained to hit a place and save lives, lightning-quick as SAS and SEAL Team Six. The whole damned thing was botched from the start. Any FBI negotiators were inept, and should have been replaced by Day Five. Had all those lives been spared, McVeigh may not have had occasion to happen.

Liam on May 4, 2010 at 5:54 PM

No, I am saying a parent worth a d@mn never would have had their children there in the first place.

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 5:50 PM

+1

As much as I believe Waco was Reno’s way of trying to show everyone how big her #!*& was, any parent with a half a brain doesn’t move their family anywhere to be controlled (let alone molested) by another human being.

Laura in Maryland on May 4, 2010 at 5:56 PM

There’s one big question that conservatives often overlooked: what kind of mother would put her son in such a dangerous situation? I mean, she ended up dead, and he quite easily could have, as well. I’m not by any means defending Castro or Cuba. I’m defending the father who seemed to get no say in the situation.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:44 PM

I think they overlook it because it’s not all that uncommon. If one mother risks her sons life to flee Cuba, then she might be a bad mother, but if many mothers risk the trip, then they might be logically weighing the risks and rewards.

Esthier on May 4, 2010 at 5:56 PM

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 5:54 PM

Bunds was brought in front of the congressional committee on the siege and couldn’t keep her stories straight. Her credibility was shot.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:57 PM

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 5:54 PM

And you don’t think for a moment that there was some serious CYA going on in the report after a domestic police action led to the death of all those people? If you only rely on one source of information then you are really not very educated about what went on.

dpierson on May 4, 2010 at 5:58 PM

The Branch Davidians may have been more zealous than most Christians

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:49 PM

Madison, come on. Simply more zealous? I’m not saying Waco was a good thing, but the comparison is quite a bit off.

Esthier on May 4, 2010 at 5:59 PM

Does DNA evidence of his being the father of those children mean nothing?

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 6:00 PM

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 5:54 PM

It doesn’t matter if Koresh committed sexual abuse.
That would have been cause for a separate charge and trial.

But it doesn’t justify surrounding the compound with military tanks and keeping it under siege for weeks, with innocent women and children inside.

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 6:00 PM

331 comments. More comments than people who saw the show.

Wade on May 4, 2010 at 5:28 PM

Yeah but 2/3 of those are people arguing about something entirely off topic…again.

Deanna on May 4, 2010 at 6:00 PM

Laura in Maryland on May 4, 2010 at 5:56 PM

Human beings are sometimes stupid. But there never has been credible evidence of actual abuse. If they wanted to arrest Koresh they could have done so peacefully that morning when he was jogging alone. This raid was done the way it was done so that ATF could prove its worth and get more funding. Lots of innocent people died because of that.
If you somehow are implying that they deserved to die because they were stupid then I assume you are not pro-life.

dpierson on May 4, 2010 at 6:02 PM

That woman is an idiot. Not once have I ever heard anyone say anything about fighting anywhere over skin color. She’s either lying or hearing bigoted voices in her head. It’s probably the latter since she and her pals were hoping (and even reporting) that the guy was a crac– uh, white.

Ronnie on May 4, 2010 at 6:03 PM

Yeah but 2/3 of those are people arguing about something entirely off topic…again.

Yes, is getting quite hard to follow. lol

jeanie on May 4, 2010 at 6:03 PM

The Branch Davidians may have been more zealous than most Christians

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 5:49 PM

I agree with you on Reno’s effup, but there is a big difference between your zealous Christian wanted to convert ‘tcha to their brand of religion and the davidians.

Cults are like pornography. I can’t give you a precise definition, but I know it when I see it. When a group requires that you live on their land under their thumb to blot out all outside influence, it is hard to defend that they are not a cult.

Laura in Maryland on May 4, 2010 at 6:03 PM

I don’t believe the Branch Davidians were Christians in the common meaning of the term. I believe Koresh was a cultist leader, using the Bible as a vehicle for his own ends.

Child abuse? I have no evidence but, in a cult, that is highly possible as compared to the risks of your average neighborhood church.

But, liberals people like this ‘objective journalist’ are more likely to believe that your local pastor is raping your daughter than she’ll want to believe a ‘brown-skinned Middle Easterner’ will blow up a shopping mall.

Brewer has a bias, which she made obvious. And I’m sure she’ll say she achieved her bias by being ‘objective’.

Liam on May 4, 2010 at 6:04 PM

At least the air head is too dumb to lie.

RobCon on May 4, 2010 at 6:04 PM

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 6:00 PM

There were no innocent adults in that compound. If I know that my children are endangered, they would have to have shot me in the back as I was running out with my kids. I am not staying in there and letting my children burn to death.

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 6:04 PM

Yeah but 2/3 of those are people arguing about something entirely off topic…again.

Majority rules. You don’t think you could get 300+ comments about some ditz reporter on MSNBC. What would be the headline: Stupid Reporter Chick found?

dpierson on May 4, 2010 at 6:05 PM

Madison, come on. Simply more zealous? I’m not saying Waco was a good thing, but the comparison is quite a bit off.

Esthier on May 4, 2010 at 5:59 PM

Compared to some off-the-wall yet somewhat mainstream sects like the Seventh-Day Adventists(from which the Branch Davidians were an offshoot), that pretty well describes them. Apocalypse predictions may not be common, but there are plenty of sects out there that make their own guesses.

Does DNA evidence of his being the father of those children mean nothing?

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 6:00 PM

This is coming from the same outfit that lost the two most crucial pieces of evidence that would have determined who shot first when the ATF first arrived.

1. There were double doors to the compound that were used to confront Koresh at the initial encounter. One of those doors had bullet holes in it, that eyewitnesses who were at the scene claimed had bullet holes only coming from outside. The place burned to the ground. The left door was recovered intact. The door with the bullet holes? The ATF claims it couldn’t find it, despite having seized it BEFORE the fire.

2. They videotaped the encounter because they were expecting a clean arrest that would go over well in the media. This was verified by local news stations that they notified with such advance that the TV crews were out there 30 minutes before the ATF. The tape of the initial encounter? The ATF says it’s blank…but none of their other videotapes are.

Excuse me if I don’t trust their DNA reports.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 6:06 PM

Human beings are sometimes stupid. But there never has been credible evidence of actual abuse. If they wanted to arrest Koresh they could have done so peacefully that morning when he was jogging alone. This raid was done the way it was done so that ATF could prove its worth and get more funding. Lots of innocent people died because of that.
If you somehow are implying that they deserved to die because they were stupid then I assume you are not pro-life.

dpierson on May 4, 2010 at 6:02 PM

I implied nothing. You read a WHOLE lot into one sentence. Parents have a huge responsibility when it come to the people they put into contact with their kids. Whether it is a momma with a revolving bedroom door risking her kids safety or a family that allows any figure (religious or otherwise) to have that much control over the safety of their kids, the parents are WRONG.

Laura in Maryland on May 4, 2010 at 6:06 PM

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 3:46 PM

Esthier is not a leftist. You have your nose so far up the GOP’s ass that you can’t see intellectual honestly.

ladyingray on May 4, 2010 at 6:06 PM

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 6:04 PM

Your’e in luck, some of the children were shot by their parents because they could not stand seeing them burned to death – that’s real justice.
No one, cultist or not, deserved to die the way those people did.

dpierson on May 4, 2010 at 6:08 PM

There were no innocent adults in that compound. If I know that my children are endangered, they would have to have shot me in the back as I was running out with my kids. I am not staying in there and letting my children burn to death.

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 6:04 PM

Gee, Janet, you sure get around!

If “Rules of Engagement” (the documentary about Waco) is to be believed, many of the women were shot (from the front) trying to escape the burning compound.

Guess you bought the whole government cover-up, huh?
Why is that?
And you’d best be careful about throwing the term “innocent” around indiscriminately?
If those people were innocent (and I maintain that they probably were), that puts a whole different face on the whole mess, doesn’t it?
Whatever their “crimes,” they deserved their day in court not execution by immolation.

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 6:09 PM

Esthier is not a leftist. You have your nose so far up the GOP’s ass that you can’t see intellectual honestly.

ladyingray on May 4, 2010 at 6:06 PM

I’m pretty sure I never said Esthier was a Leftist.
Save your outrage for something else.

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 6:09 PM

Esthier is not a leftist. You have your nose so far up the GOP’s ass that you can’t see intellectual honestly.

ladyingray on May 4, 2010 at 6:06 PM

You got that right (and I was one of the idjits that cheered Steele sorry self on and voted for him for Lt. Governor and congress).

Laura in Maryland on May 4, 2010 at 6:09 PM

Gee, Janet, you sure get around!

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 6:09 PM

Then I guess that makes you Contessa Brewer.

(If I disagree that makes you someone I don’t like).

Laura in Maryland on May 4, 2010 at 6:12 PM

I just GOT IT! Contessa isn’t really dumb, she is trying out to be O’s press secretary when Gibbs moves on to bigger and better things.

Dan Pet on May 4, 2010 at 6:12 PM

Your’e in luck, some of the children were shot by their parents because they could not stand seeing them burned to death – that’s real justice.
No one, cultist or not, deserved to die the way those people did.

dpierson on May 4, 2010 at 6:08 PM

Either the parents…or ATF agents at the rear, picked up by the thermal imaging drone taking video at the time the fire started, who appeared to be firing their weapons into the burning compound.

MadisonConservative on May 4, 2010 at 6:13 PM

Esthier is not a leftist. You have your nose so far up the GOP’s ass that you can’t see intellectual honestly.

ladyingray on May 4, 2010 at 6:06 PM

Pardon your crudeness, but honesty in all things, including intellectual matters, is my watchword.
There are far, far worse things than having one’s nose “up the GOP’s xxx.”

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 6:13 PM

Jenfidel on May 4, 2010 at 6:09 PM

I don’t care what you say. A mother who does not protect her kids is not worth anything. My sole purpose in life is to protect my children. Any woman who allowed her children to be in that kind of position shares the blame. What kind of mother allows here daughter to be raped by a man? Are you going to deny that there were underage mothers there? Seeing how a child cannot consent, the only option is rape.

TXMomof3 on May 4, 2010 at 6:13 PM

Laura in Maryland on May 4, 2010 at 6:06 PM

Agreed, I just can’t make the second step from being bad parents to deserve to die.
People get caught up in all types of bad situations. If the ATF thought they were there under duress then why storm the house guns blazing. At the least they should have been worried about accidentally shotting one of the kids they were trying to save. The whole thing was f’ed up start to finish and then covered up to protect some bureaucrats butt.

dpierson on May 4, 2010 at 6:14 PM

Your’e in luck, some of the children were shot by their parents because they could not stand seeing them burned to death – that’s real justice.
No one, cultist or not, deserved to die the way those people did.

dpierson on May 4, 2010 at 6:08 PM

I don’t know what kind of sick, twisted mind you have, but you keep reading stuff into posts that just isn’t there.

Laura in Maryland on May 4, 2010 at 6:14 PM

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