Video: British party leaders square off at second debate

posted at 10:13 pm on April 22, 2010 by Allahpundit

I’m unqualified to comment but thought there might be reader interest in the video, especially given the ominous posts trickling into the righty blogosphere lately about Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg. The LDs are to the left even of Labour, especially on foreign policy; typically they’re a third-party also-ran, not unlike the greens in America, I guess, but Clegg blew Brown and Cameron away at the first debate and now suddenly his party’s in the thick of it. Don’t read this post about him at the Corner by Nile Gardiner with the lights off or you might have nightmares tonight. The Weekly Standard, straining to find a silver lining in his ascent, settled on the old morale-booster of being one catastrophic defeat away from total victory:

Obviously, this seems be a huge blow to the Conservative Party, but before we get too panicked, there may be a small silver lining. Assuming that Cameron loses, Britain will be stuck with either an unstable Brown-led coalition or an unstable Clegg-led coalition (my money is on Clegg) – meaning that Britain could be back at the polls in a snap election before the next term expires. Furthermore, Clegg is likely to live up to his billing as “the British Obama” by driving the country off a left-wing cliff and horrifying voters that failed to read his policies carefully. Under such a scenario (or under an illegitimate Brown coalition), both the LibDems and Labour will lose credibility after governing together, thus sending the electorate into the waiting arms of the Conservatives. Furthermore, as the moderate Cameron would likely resign the party leadership after a humiliating defeat, the Conservatives are likely to be under more conservative leadership by the next election (as Cameron takes a lot of heat for running so far to the center as to blur the lines between parties).

Sky News has a dandy user-friendly video page of the debate up on its site, which you can access by clicking the image below. I recommend the opening statements, the clips on Afghanistan, and the closing statements, as you’ll find Clegg hammering at the shiver-inducing message of “change.” Exit quotation: “A misplaced sense of superiority, sustained by delusions of grandeur and a tenacious obsession with the last war, is much harder to shake off. We need to be put back in our place.”

nc

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So I guess Nick Clegg is a master debater.

SoulGlo on April 22, 2010 at 10:17 PM

Sky News has a dandy user-friendly video page of the debate up on its site, which you can access by clicking the image below. I recommend the opening statements, the clips on Afghanistan, and the closing statements, as you’ll find Clegg hammering at the shiver-inducing message of “change.” Exit quotation: “A misplaced sense of superiority, sustained by delusions of grandeur and a tenacious obsession with the last war, is much harder to shake off. We need to be put back in our place.”

We have our hands full just trying to save ourselves. Britain, god bless ‘em, are on their own. Even if the Brits get this commie/Obama clone, it won’t matter. Their decline to oblivion started about 10 years ago.

Don’t get me wrong. I wish it were otherwise…but they wanted the US to have Obama more than the US wanted to have Obama. They got that and now they want more…much, much more.

AUINSC on April 22, 2010 at 10:17 PM

If the Brits are stupid enough to vote for das Hopenchange,** they deserve every minute of it.

**Cleggenchange?

DangerHighVoltage on April 22, 2010 at 10:19 PM

The LDs are to the left even of Labour, especially on foreign policy; typically they’re a third-party also-ran, not unlike the greens in America

Eh, they’ve been a lot more popular than the Greens…

ninjapirate on April 22, 2010 at 10:19 PM

I’m largely done with British parties. They haggle over how much socialism is appropriate rather than over whether socialism is appropriate.

I saw some of Labour’s fliers today. Good Lord. It’s five or ten times worse than liberals here. Labour just comes right out and tells you they’re going to give everything away on taxpayer dime.

And Conservatives, the prominent public ones at least, seem to respond by assuring voters they’ll not do what Brown accuses them of trying to do: Take away free government goodies.

I used to want to spend some time living in Britain. No more.

amerpundit on April 22, 2010 at 10:19 PM

I heard Mark Steyn and Hugh Hewitt talk about this earlier. It would appear the England is falling for their own brand of Hopey/Changey. Supposedly their conservative has decided to take the squishy moderate route and guess what? Nobody wants what they already have plenty of.

Cindy Munford on April 22, 2010 at 10:20 PM

Furthermore, Clegg is likely to live up to his billing as “the British Obama” by driving the country off a left-wing cliff and horrifying voters that failed to read his policies carefully.

I’m not sure any group of European voters will have a good idea of what pushing too far to the left buys them until they end up like Greece.

fiatboomer on April 22, 2010 at 10:21 PM

“Furthermore, Clegg is likely to live up to his billing as “the British Obama” by driving the country off a left-wing cliff and horrifying voters that failed to read his policies carefully.”

The American Revolution…

… in reverse.

Time for a pint and a fag…

Seven Percent Solution on April 22, 2010 at 10:21 PM

THose five points from the corner sum up Ogabe as well.

Inanemergencydial on April 22, 2010 at 10:22 PM

Britain is dead. Her grave was laid right after WWII. She can never come back. It’s over.

Warner Todd Huston on April 22, 2010 at 10:22 PM

Exit quotation: “A misplaced sense of superiority, sustained by delusions of grandeur and a tenacious obsession with the last war, is much harder to shake off. We need to be put back in our place.”

The guy sounds just like Obama. Two peas in a pod. Scary.

The Weekly Standard, straining to find a silver lining in his ascent, settled on the old morale-booster of being one catastrophic defeat away from total victory:

With Cregg, Britain may not survive until their next election.

conservative pilgrim on April 22, 2010 at 10:23 PM

I’m guessing he has perfectly creased pants.

Rational Thought on April 22, 2010 at 10:24 PM

If Cameron can’t hammer away this nut Cleggan and with Gordon Brown’s unfavorables….then maybe the Conservatives need a new leader?

terryannonline on April 22, 2010 at 10:28 PM

Heads up FWIW…

Ed Koch is going to be on the John Batchelor show in about 20 minutes…

Thursday 1050P: (750P Pacific Time): Mayor Ed Koch, in re: US-Israel relations

http://johnbatchelorshow.com/schedules/2010/04/thursday-22-april-2010/

ninjapirate on April 22, 2010 at 10:28 PM

Hey AllahPundit, could you please delete my first comment on top? Thanks.

SoulGlo on April 22, 2010 at 10:30 PM

Clegg is the final nail on the coffin of Britain. He is Obama 2.0. England will repent if they vote this clown in office. Israel will have one less ally. This is terrible beyond belief.

cubachi on April 22, 2010 at 10:31 PM

Well, the truth is…it doesn’t matter which of these three idiots Britain elects. The only thing that the election will now determine is whether Britain becomes Greece in 1 year, 2 years or 3 years.

AUINSC on April 22, 2010 at 10:34 PM

England will repent if they vote this clown in office. Israel will have one less ally. This is terrible beyond belief.

cubachi on April 22, 2010 at 10:31 PM

Funny, I thought they already repented under both Blair and Brown. They swear that Blair was our Obama.

Diane on April 22, 2010 at 10:35 PM

It looks like ppl thought Cameron won the debate.

terryannonline on April 22, 2010 at 10:35 PM

Remember when the Berlin wall came down, and the Soviet Union collapsed? Remember how *everyone* celebrated the defeat of communism, and how we could spend the peace dividend?

Ya, I didn’t think they were defeated back then, and thought they were like intestinal parasites, laying eggs.

Skandia Recluse on April 22, 2010 at 10:36 PM

It looks like ppl thought Cameron won the debate.

terryannonline on April 22, 2010 at 10:35 PM

It really doesn’t matter. He’s about as Conservative as Hillary Clinton is.

AUINSC on April 22, 2010 at 10:39 PM

The Tories deserve what they get. They were foolish enough to elect a Frum-type as their leader. David Cameron is a pathetic CINO.

All my old Tory friends in the UK are voting UKIP.

Norwegian on April 22, 2010 at 10:40 PM

Doesn’t matter Sharia is coming to the UK

Daveyardbird on April 22, 2010 at 10:40 PM

Right post comments this time (posted erroneously by me on another article here, sorry):

The UK is screwed in degrees with these three candidates (Cameron, Clegg and Brown, though Brown is clearly out at this stage).

When I read that — of all the wretched people on earth — Anita Dunn was engaged to advise Cameron on his campaigning, I just lost all confidence that any of these three would or could ever bring something credible to the people of the United Kingdom.

My sympathies for them, and I mean that in a NON condescending fashion, in all sincerity. Here they have these options (Clegg and Cameron) and neither of them is worth the votes.

Lourdes on April 22, 2010 at 9:53 PM

Still thinking about this…

How in God’s creation could ANYone with ANY common sense and personal integrity bring ANITA DUNN into a campaign as adviser? As in, what Cameron did (got Dunn on as an adviser).

I was disgusted and horrified to read that bit about him. Just horrified. And disgusted.

Lourdes on April 22, 2010 at 9:55 PM

Lourdes on April 22, 2010 at 10:41 PM

It looks like ppl thought Cameron won the debate.

terryannonline on April 22, 2010 at 10:35 PM

It really doesn’t matter. He’s about as Conservative as Hillary Clinton is.

AUINSC on April 22, 2010 at 10:39 PM

Exactly. Cameron’s what in the U.S. would be called Far Left, in the Obama area (also Hillary as you note). That he’d have hired on Anita Dunn to advise him (“to be like Obama” or emulate Obama, whatever, both awful) is indication he’s hardly functioning with a decent deck.

All three of these are just terrible for the U.K.

Lourdes on April 22, 2010 at 10:43 PM

What England needs is Daniel Hannan.

cubachi on April 22, 2010 at 10:46 PM

Clegg is the final nail on the coffin of Britain. He is Obama 2.0. England will repent if they vote this clown in office. Israel will have one less ally. This is terrible beyond belief.

cubachi on April 22, 2010 at 10:31 PM

Well, actually, same goes for Cameron (as with Clegg).

Cameron engaged Anita Dunn to advise him (to be “more like Obama” or gain some “Obama edge” or whatnot), as I’ve been complaining here.

That should tell anyone all they need to know about Cameron. Why in the world would anyone WANT to reiterate Obama? I mean, Anita Dunn?!? How loathesome could ANYone be to actually bring her on? I was aghast when I read that.

Lourdes on April 22, 2010 at 10:46 PM

The Lib Dems aren’t to the left of Labour. Rather, they use the fact that they’re never in power to strike a centrist pose and to play off voters’ dislikes of both Labour and the Conservatives, without having to offer serious policies of their own. In the case of foreign policy, this means taking advantage of the fact that Labour involved Britain in Afghanistan and Iraq and that the Conservatives are generally supportive of national defense issues. So the Lib Dems appeal to ‘anti-war’ sentiments by promising to abandon the effort in Iraq and Afghanistan, abandon Britain’s nuclear deterrent, etc.

Cameron will either become Prime Minister after the elections or be replaced as Conservative party leader.

DKCZ on April 22, 2010 at 10:47 PM

Cameron, Clegg and Brown…

That’d be like Obama, Stalin and Jack Ruby running (in no particular order of comparison with the UK candidates).

Lourdes on April 22, 2010 at 10:48 PM

What England needs is Daniel Hannan.

cubachi on April 22, 2010 at 10:46 PM

Meh. Daniel Hannan is a Ron Paul fan. No thanks.

terryannonline on April 22, 2010 at 10:50 PM

England is the US in the perhaps not-so-far future.

What a mess. And to think that this little nation squared off against Nazi Germany in recent history and fought the b@st@rds to a standstill.

Dark-Star on April 22, 2010 at 10:52 PM

Meh. Daniel Hannan is a Ron Paul fan. No thanks.

terryannonline on April 22, 2010 at 10:50 PM

Yep. I now think he’s nuts. He is also still a huge Obama fan. I’ve never been able to get past that. If that’s the best Britain can produce in the way of a ‘Conservative’, they have no chance at all…and the venue they’ve put up with these 3 cretins proves it beyond all doubt.

AUINSC on April 22, 2010 at 10:55 PM

AP, after tonight, I think Cleggmania is done. I really think Cameron stopped it tonight. Clegg polls even started coming down 3 days ago. I think the chances of a conservative govt after tonight is greater than it was yesterday

ConservativePartyNow on April 22, 2010 at 10:58 PM

Check out these ‘views’ from the Paultard kook right:

Clegg for PM?
Posted by Lew Rockwell on April 19, 2010 09:28 AM

Ever since the first televised debate for prime minister in UK history, Nick Clegg—head of the Liberal party—has been zooming in the polls. Neither the corporatist conservative David Cameron nor the corporatist laborite Gordon Brown appealed. Now, Clegg is a corporatist too, but his plan for proportional representation would empower smaller parties, which is a great idea. He also is a decentralist. And the Liberals do have a classical liberal heritage, unlike the Tories and Labor. Clegg is undoubtedly no better than Cameron-Brown, and some great people support Cameron and might influence him in office, but how fun to see a shakeup.

« Previous: Ashes to Ashes | LRC Home | LRC Blog | Next: Uglier and Uglier »

April 21, 2010
Why They Hate Clegg
Posted by Lew Rockwell on April 21, 2010 12:45 PM

Not only did Nick Clegg, leader of the Liberal Democrats in Britain, oppose British involvement in the US wars on Iraq and Afghanistan—and he opposes British involvement in the proposed war on Iran—but he wants a little independence for his country from the empire. This is getting attention because he won the first-ever PM TV debate. Is he actually a patriot rather than a puppet? Probably not, but this is still fun.

jp on April 22, 2010 at 10:59 PM

Vote for Nick Clegg and finish off Great Britain once and for all!

TheBigOldDog on April 22, 2010 at 11:00 PM

jp on April 22, 2010 at 10:59 PM

Lew Rockwell is insane. Maybe he should move to Britain. He would feel right at home there.

AUINSC on April 22, 2010 at 11:01 PM

I’m sorry but the Brits are complete idiots. Oh, and Cameron already deserves a vote of no confidence. What a weak willed fool.

Daemonocracy on April 22, 2010 at 11:02 PM

Vote for Nick Clegg and finish off Great Britain once and for all!

TheBigOldDog on April 22, 2010 at 11:00 PM

Only a matter of how quickly. All three of them are going to finish of Britain…it’s only a question of who get’s the job done faster.

AUINSC on April 22, 2010 at 11:02 PM

Does it matter which of the three socialist stooges wins? If I were a Brit I’d vote BNP just to watch the progressives soil their linen. Britain is too far along the road to Islamification to get out of this without a Renovationary conflict that will unlikely be seamless or pretty. All of the west is too infiltrated to simply vote this situation away peacefully. It is not too late to win, it is too late to do so gracefully.

BL@KBIRD on April 22, 2010 at 11:07 PM

I find it hard to muster any interest in Europe in general and England in particular.

They are all lost to the jihad, the only question is, how many native Europeans will America accept as refugees, and how many will be left to the tender mercy of the religion of peace.

Rebar on April 22, 2010 at 11:07 PM

Wow. Cleggs closing statement sounded exactly like the rhetoric BO used.

El_Terrible on April 22, 2010 at 11:09 PM

Clegg sounds like he’s being coached by the Hollywood set who coach Obama. Pure hokum. Resist, Britain!

Connie on April 22, 2010 at 11:32 PM

Precisely.

AshleyTKing on April 23, 2010 at 12:32 AM

Supposedly their conservative has decided to take the squishy moderate route and guess what? Nobody wants what they already have plenty of.

Cindy Munford on April 22, 2010 at 10:20 PM

Yes. They need a Churchill, a Thatcher, or that new fellow Daniel Hannan (who, if he isn’t already, needs to quit that dead-end MEP for a proper seat in the Commons.

AshleyTKing on April 23, 2010 at 12:34 AM

All these libtards are like everybody’s ex-spouse from hell. They lie, cheat, and steal. Spend all your money, blame you and in four years they’re gone.

Mojave Mark on April 23, 2010 at 12:55 AM

Just what the world needs a “British Obama.”

TonyR on April 23, 2010 at 1:28 AM

“A misplaced sense of superiority, sustained by delusions of grandeur and a tenacious obsession with the last war, is much harder to shake off. We need to be put back in our place.”

Goodie, we’ll have to big arsholes on the world stage. The stage can’t hold two narcissistic egomaniacs of this caliber, concurrently. This means war.

Schadenfreude on April 23, 2010 at 1:38 AM

In the long run, it might be best for Britain if the Lib-Dems end up joining a coalition Government. A necessary prerequisite for them to join any Government would be a referendum on proportional representation. This would make it possible for the only conservative party in modern Britain, UKIP, to finally get representation in parliament (they actually came in SECOND in the PR European elections last year).

If people thought they weren’t ‘throwing their vote away’ thanks to voting under PR, UKIP might well be the second or third largest party in parliament in under 5 years, after the coalition inevitably collapses.

Inkblots on April 23, 2010 at 1:52 AM

I watched some of this live and had to turn it off after about 30 minutes. Britain is doomed if this is the best they’ve got. At least in the US, it’s clearer which side stands for what, but these 3 clowns are left and farther left. Watch to see how many vote for the BNP and UKIP. Their supporters are all over the Daily Mail comments.

Renwaa on April 23, 2010 at 2:23 AM

I’m largely done with British parties. They haggle over how much socialism is appropriate rather than over whether socialism is appropriate.

amerpundit on April 22, 2010 at 10:19 PM

If only. The Tories aren’t even questioning the amount of socialism. They just think they can do a better job at implementing it. I was in London recently and remember the conservative campaign billboards. The slogan was something like “it’s time to mend our broken society.”

year_of_the_dingo on April 23, 2010 at 3:22 AM

Hey – I’m looking out of my window here in Sussex and the sky is still up there, hasn’t fallen in. Cleggmania is worrying but there are elements of a bubble about the whole thing. The polls, for what they are worth (sorry, AP) are quite volatile but on the ground this Liberal surge is hard to find.
Steady nerves needed at this moment, methinks….

http://www.theagedp.com/?p=396

callingallcomets on April 23, 2010 at 3:46 AM

Some useful links on Nick Clegg (in short, the UK’s version of Barack Obama- a good speaker posing as a reforming moderate to the public)- a man who thinks Britain “needs put in its place”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/election/article-1267921/GENERAL-ELECTION-2010-Nick-Clegg-Nazi-slur-Britain.html

A man who claims to want to clean up Westminster but who used public expenses to, amongst other things, pay for three kitchen upgrades in a matter of months and to have his fruit trees pruned.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/election/article-1267445/General-Election-2010-Clegg-says-Im-man-change.html

Finally, he’s the man in charge of a Party which sent members a memo on how to milk the grey areas of the expenses system to their maximum benefit- including how to use it to pay for propagandising to their constituents.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/election/article-1267835/General-Election-2010-Lib-Dem-MPs-told-milk-expenses-leaks-reveal.html

Jay Mac on April 23, 2010 at 4:12 AM

(Writing fron the English west country, where the sun shines and nothing has fallen from the skies except a little volcanic ash)

Some of you guys are too hard on Cameron – his policy platform is something that most conservatives would support, eg smaller government, transfer of powers from the centre to local communities, empowerment of the individual, lower taxes, reduced government spending, tighter rules on immigration, tough on law and order, support for the family, etc.

His language is somewhat Obama-esque, eg calling for ‘change’, the need for a ‘big society’ etc – but Britain does indeed need change after 13 years of high spending, high taxing Labour government and a monster budget deficit. His problem is that he has to persuade the country to elect a Conservative government, and he will not do that by waving a purely right-wing flag. He has to be in a centre-right position, otherwise it won’t happen.

Clegg and the Liberals have recently captured some of this ‘need for change’ meme (which you are seeing in US as well) but they would take Britain off in a different direction and would repeat some of the Labour follies and add a few more of their own.

Given our voting system, anything could happen on 6 May, but please don’t count Cameron out – in fact please support him. He is the best hope for Britain for anyone with a belief in conservative principles.

sceptical on April 23, 2010 at 5:30 AM

I watched a little bit of it and all I heard was a debate about who was going to give out the most “free stuff”. It’s a crystall ball into our downfall.

wheelgun on April 23, 2010 at 5:35 AM

Well, the truth is…it doesn’t matter which of these three idiots Britain elects. The only thing that the election will now determine is whether Britain becomes Greece in 1 year, 2 years or 3 years.

AUINSC on April 22, 2010 at 10:34 PM

Yes, and guess what the US will get there first. The US is now more Socialist than France.

On Clegg mania, I think yesterday’s debate is bad for him. The vast majority of Brits are pro-Trident, Clegg is anti. Clegg wants an amnesty for illegals, Brits don’t. Clegg is totally Europhile, Brits aren’t. He is anti-American, Brits aren’t.

Hope on April 23, 2010 at 5:53 AM

sceptical,

I don’t think Cameron deserves any support. If he was serious about fiscal responsibility/small government he could have adopted Lord Tebbit’s proposed £bns in budget cuts. The Tories have not campaigned on immigration, they won’t do a thing about it. Needless to say most of the laws will still be dreamt up in Brussels.

I had some sympathy with McCain hold-your-nose voters even though he was and is awful but have none for the Cameroon Tories. They are the Outer Party. They are the Mensheviks. I’ll only be happy if they lose because their victory would represent the consolidation a three-party leftist death grip on Britain.

I also think that Clegg’s newfound popularity is partly a testament to Cameron’s vapidity. Cameron was a new, bright and shiny empty suit. Why shouldn’t another new, bright and shiny empty suit come along to supplant him?

I wish it were otherwise…but they wanted the US to have Obama more than the US wanted to have Obama.

Again we see AUINSC is unwilling to take responsibility for his own country’s leftism, so he blames everyone else. The people who wanted Obama are the people who voted for him i.e. Americans. Everything else – BBC World polls or whatever – is just curious speculation.

aengus on April 23, 2010 at 6:01 AM

We need to be put back in our place.”

They could start with this guy. Just put him right back in his place at number 3.

Terrye on April 23, 2010 at 6:46 AM

The stage decoration says it all: Notice the shattered Union Jack behind the candidates? Heart breaking.

dhimwit on April 23, 2010 at 7:10 AM

aengus,

In the real world, the choice is between three parties – two are leftist and one is centre-right. If none gets a majority, there will be a ‘hung’ parliament with two sharing power. You really want to see the leftist ones in power rather than the centre-right one?

sceptical on April 23, 2010 at 8:01 AM

We need to be put back in our place.

I don’t know about the Brits, but this would be enough for me to hit the panic button.

Count to 10 on April 23, 2010 at 1:16 PM

I do business in the UK and have been following this election with interest. I have some sympathy for Cameron, but only a little. Sure, he’s no Thatcher but I get the feeling their liberal media echo chamber has reached saturation levels over there, to the point where everybody’s so brainwashed that anyone espousing typical conservative ideals is like a salmon trying to swim up Niagara. The Tories, I fear, are soon to be a party without a country.

Behold, the black hole of godless post-modernity.

txhsdad on April 23, 2010 at 1:20 PM